== Log ==
UTC
{{{
06:04	heno	welcome all to the first Ubuntu QA IRC meeting
06:05	bdmurray	\o/
06:05	heno	(at least I think so)
06:05	pedro_	yay!
06:05	heno	We have an agenda here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
06:06	heno	the QA devel sprint was very productive IMO: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings/OsloSprint
06:06	heno	lots to do for the Hardy cycle and to discuss at UDS
06:07	heno	bdmurray: has sent me some ideas for UDS topics. more input is welcome
06:08	heno	(though that's next topic)
06:10	liw	I obviously agree that it was a productive meeting (since I was there), and I don't really have anything to add right now that isn't on the OsloSprint page
06:10	heno	any questions/comments on the sprint topics?
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06:10	pedro_	yep, can be add the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Stats to be discussed there also?
06:11	heno	ok, so Action: heno to distill UDS discussion topics from the sprint notes and propose them for scheduling
06:12	liw	pedro_, I think that looks like a perfect thing to include in the "Bug statistics" topic at UDS
06:12	heno	agreed
06:12	pedro_	liw, ok great
06:12	stgraber	About the bug stats part, do we still agree that moving them inside the QA-Website/Tracker would be the way to go to avoid having them hosted on people.u.c, then fetched by qa.ubuntu.com and then shown (as we have python cron scripts for qa.stgraber.org anyway) ?
06:13	bdmurray	Part of the reason reports are run on p.u.c is the queries run much faster there
06:13	heno	stgraber: I think you, bdmurray and others should discuss this in detail at UDS
06:14	heno	bdmurray: but we'll move the qa tracker to the DC *real soon now*
06:14	stgraber	bdmurray: hmm, should be the same once we have qa.stgraber.org moved to qa.ubuntu.com and inside Canonical DC no ?
06:14	heno	the plan is this week
06:14	bdmurray	Ah, I did not know this.  So many loops to stay in.
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06:15	heno	hi davmor2!
06:15	bdmurray	Well, that'd be cool.
06:15	stgraber	davmor2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
06:15	davmor2	Hi
06:16	heno	sorry, this first meeting has been poorly announced
06:16	zul	oh helllo
06:16	heno	davmor2: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
06:16	davmor2	:)
06:18	davmor2	where we up to?
06:18	heno	wrapping up point two;
06:19	heno	if anyone has suggestions for UDS topics, please email them to me by tomorrow
06:19	stgraber	heno: IIRC I started a spec about the Tracker a while ago and even proposed it for Boston, maybe you'd like to have a look at it to update or delete it (if too much out of date)
06:19	heno	(there will also be the opportunity to suggest topics at UDS but these are not guaranteed a slot)
06:20	heno	stgraber: will do, I'm sure it can be adjusted to suit where we are at now
06:21	davmor2	will the topics selected be made available any where?
06:22	heno	davmor2: Matt, Colin and Scott will have a manual scheduling session on monday in London and will post the results of that
06:23	davmor2	okay cool
06:23	heno	(using sticky notes and lots of floor space I suspect)
06:23	heno	Topic #3 RC bugs
06:23	heno	https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10-rc
06:23	heno	is the link
06:24	bdmurray	I hate the format of that list
06:24	heno	the release team is on top of this I believe, but we may/should have some input
06:24	heno	yeah
06:25	heno	bdmurray: anything come up in your study of iso-testing bugs?
06:25	bdmurray	No, nothing new other than that printing bug that Till is on top of
06:26	heno	Ok, I'll start working through the list as well as one of my next items
06:27	heno	we should look at the completely untriaged bugs there especially
06:27	bdmurray	I believe the kernel freeze is tomorrow so I'll be focusing on those
06:27	heno	some have no priority setting
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06:27	heno	ok, cool
06:28	heno	should we try to test for recently fixed bugs during next weeks ISO testing?
06:29	heno	what's an easy way to produce a list of the previously milestoned, now fixed bugs?
06:29	bdmurray	Yeah, that is what I was trying to say in one of my e-mails.
06:29	heno	the list may quickly become too long for manual testing
06:30	bdmurray	Or similar to what I was mentioning, I'll see if I can whip a query
06:30	bdmurray	whip up even
06:31	davmor2	one way maybe to have the manual testers select bugs in a similar fashion as the y do iso's
06:32	heno	I guess these things should be folded into the test cases, but we don't really want to change those at every milestone either
06:32	bdmurray	Maybe test cases for specific bug numbers?
06:32	heno	could we pick out top 10 such bugs perhaps?
06:33	bdmurray	That can be added and removed to the general cases
06:33	heno	you shouldn't need to confirm that it's fixed on every single ISO though
06:33	heno	like your LiveCD hibernate example
06:34	heno	testing it on one should be enough
06:34	bdmurray	True
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06:35	heno	we could make it a separate 'test case'
06:35	heno	or a wiki page with a table to check off
06:35	heno	(going low-tech again)
06:35	davmor2	could the list not become interactive?  ie the ability to tick box for pass fail?
06:36	heno	I agree, though it's probably too late for Gutsy for that
06:37	heno	I suggest we add this to a Hardy spec, and perhaps make an informal effort for Gutsy
06:37	davmor2	heno if that is the case then could we not use the irc channel for it?
06:38	heno	bdmurray, pedro_: can you propose a few bug #s we should verify?
06:38	pedro_	heno, sure will do it
06:38	heno	davmor2: combined with a list somewhere, sure
06:38	bdmurray	sure, where shall we put them? in the Testing name space?
06:39	heno	Testing/FixesToVerify ?
06:40	davmor2	heno: where ever it is make sure it is announced other wise it won't get used
06:41	bdmurray	heno: That works for me
06:41	heno	good point. let's add a few items and then ask the distro team to contribute more
06:41	pedro_	ok
06:42	heno	Topic #4: QA team wiki pages
06:43	heno	there is some name space confusion between the ubuntu-qa LP team and the more general bugsquad+testing = QA team
06:43	heno	is that a problem?
06:43	liw	as a newbie I'll testify that I'm confused :)
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06:43	davmor2	what's the difference between ubuntu-qa and qa team?
06:44	heno	ubuntu-qa is a restricted Launchpad team, bugsquad with some extra powers
06:44	heno	mainly setting the priority of bugs
06:45	heno	but at the same time we want to build and active team around general QA in Ubuntu
06:45	heno	and the name sort of gives itself
06:45	bdmurray	Right, just because you can not set the priority does not mean you are not part of the QA effort
06:45	heno	should ubuntu-qa be changed to bugsquad++ ? :)
06:46	davmor2	it may be better for the lp team to lose the qa title then as it has no really reference to QA as it will undoubtedly be a smaller team than testing+bug squuad
06:46	heno	or should testing and other QA work be a natural way to apply for the ubuntu-qa LP team?
06:47	bdmurray	I'd agree that the ubuntu qa team could use a renaming to avoid confusion but I don't have a good idea of to what
06:47	heno	how diruptive is changing the name of that well-established LP team though?
06:48	davmor2	heno how big is the team?
06:48	liw	I'd assume it'd be less disruptive than continually having to explain things, since it's a one-time change
06:48	heno	hm, yeah
06:48	heno	davmor2: 50-60?
06:48	bdmurray	I think there is a lot of documentation that talks about the QA name though
06:49	heno	but it also has core-dev and motu as indirect members
06:49	liw	bdmurray, true, but it should mostly be in the wiki and searchable, surely?
06:49	davmor2	heno how big is testing + bug squad?
06:49	heno	not sure if that causes a problem
06:50	bdmurray	liw: right for the most part.  I think kiko's recent bug status write-up mentioned the QA name specifically though
06:50	heno	bugsquad is 837 :)
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06:50	bdmurray	I still think it is a good idea though
06:51	heno	we probably need to raise this for discussion on the bugsquad and devel-discuss lists
06:51	davmor2	how are you going to umbrella the qa team?  If it will be QA testing QA bug squad then could the lp team not just be added to the bug squad side of things?
06:53	davmor2	That wat everything would fall under the QATeam umbrella
06:53	heno	the current ubuntu-qa LP team is restricted with good reason
06:53	heno	so that would need to be maintained
06:53	heno	however we do it
06:53	davmor2	but it would still remain restricted
06:54	heno	currently we don't have an Ubuntu QA Team LP team
06:54	heno	we may not need one either
06:55	heno	anyway let's leave the wiki pages as they are for now and raise this on the lists
06:56	heno	I'm sure many people will want to have a say in this :)
06:56	bdmurray	I think we should have a suggestion for an alternative name before opening the discussion
06:56	bdmurray	The name for the team that sets bug priority
06:56	heno	that would help, I agree
06:56	davmor2	I'm with bdmurray
06:57	heno	ubuntu-triage, ubuntu-bugexperts ...
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06:57	liw	BugSetters? BugPriors?
06:57	davmor2	ubuntu-bugcontrol
06:57	bdmurray	Setting the priority almost seems like project management
06:58	liw	ubuntu-bugcontrol sounds good to me, actually
06:58	davmor2	heno not triage it would clash with bug squad I think
07:00	heno	what is similar but higher level than 'squad', troop, legion ... ?
07:00	pedro_	ubuntu-bugpriory is cool but probably not good
07:00	pedro_	like the priory of sion
07:00	davmor2	battalion
07:00	liw	general? captain?
07:00	bdmurray	come on now
07:00	heno	buglords (like time lords)
07:01	liw	ubuntu-bugtweakers?
07:01	bdmurray	A squad is group of troops, a smaller group than a squad would be a fireteam
07:01	bdmurray	A larger group would be a platoon
07:01	davmor2	army :D
07:01	heno	that's getting to martial though
07:01	pedro_	bdmurray: haha that sounds funny is spanish :-P
07:01	heno	but it *is* smaller
07:02	bdmurray	fuego what?
07:02	liw	we might want to avoid giving it a "glamorous" name, lest people get jealous and want to join just for the name
07:02	pedro_	bdmurray, the platoon
07:05	liw	the suggestions have dried up
07:07	heno	shall we start with an email to the bugsquad list?
07:07	davmor2	indeed :)
07:07	pedro_	yes please
07:07	liw	that sounds good to me, but I am new and confused
07:07	heno	volunteers to write that?
07:08	heno	I think I have nearly every other action item so far :)
07:09	liw	it's unsporting of me, but since I'm confused about what's what, I'd like to dodge this one
07:09	heno	pedro_: ?
07:09	pedro_	i'll do it
07:10	heno	thanks!
07:10	heno	Topic #5: Agree upon a method for communicating high profile or well known bug reports amongst each other. It should be something that developers can add bug reports that they are working on too.
07:10	heno	bdmurray: would a tag work for this?
07:10	bdmurray	I brought that up because I spent a fair bit of time tracking down a printing issue I had only to discover that it was bug that was _known_
07:10	bdmurray	and being worked on
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07:11	heno	perhaps combine it with a bughelper query placed on some page
07:11	heno	just know as a bug or known as a very common issue?
07:11	bdmurray	I think it will overlap with the milestoned bugs list a fair bit
07:12	heno	affecting lots of printers or just one model?
07:12	bdmurray	I think all hps
07:13	heno	it should have a lower threshold and be less time-related than milestones though
07:13	davmor2	I think that the bugsquad tagging is useful
07:13	heno	would tags be abused eventually?
07:13	davmor2	Why?
07:13	heno	if it gets known as the tag to use to get your bug looked at
07:14	davmor2	heno: how is the tag added then?
07:14	stgraber	is there a way to know who set a tag ?
07:14	heno	anyone can add one
07:14	heno	not sure
07:14	bdmurray	I don't like that tagging idea as it requires people to do work
07:15	bdmurray	Reading e-mail seems like less work than searching launchpad
07:15	bdmurray	So mailing the bugsquad - "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" seems the most useful to me
07:15	ubotu	Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
07:15	heno	right but tagging seems a good way to ID them
07:15	bdmurray	Then bugsquad readers, or us, could tag and add them to a wiki page
07:16	heno	we could then set up a bughelper script to send a digest of all bugs where that tag was added this week
07:17	bdmurray	Then once those bugs were fixed they might move to the ISO test watching bugs
07:17	heno	bdmurray: who would send those emails, developers?
07:19	bdmurray	I'm not following regarding who
07:19	heno	the "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" emails would be sent by developers working on a fix?
07:19	ubotu	Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
07:20	heno	is that what you mean by _known_ basically?
07:20	bdmurray	What I mean by known is one that has already been reported and is large enough in scope that multiple people will encounter it
07:21	heno	perhaps a bot should listen for bugs being discussed in #ubuntu-devel
07:21	heno	bdmurray: but isn't that potentially a very large number?
07:21	heno	(of bugs)
07:22	bdmurray	Perhaps
07:22	heno	what about suggestion devs use 'In progress' for this?
07:23	pedro_	already sent the mail to the bugsquad list [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2007-October/000636.html]
07:24	heno	bdmurray: you you think that setting a tag is more work than sending the email?
07:24	heno	with tags, we could collect the bugs in a digest
07:24	bdmurray	No, I think finding tagged bugs is more work
07:24	heno	be we can improve that for a specific tag
07:25	heno	with a web page and/or email digest generated
07:25	heno	*but we can
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07:26	bdmurray	Added the tag is probably the least amount of work so maybe we should start off with that and see what we have
07:26	bdmurray	s/Added/Adding
07:26	heno	ok, sounds good
07:27	heno	suggestions for a tag name?
07:28	heno	none yet, ok
07:28	bdmurray	I wonder if the existing meta-bug tag includes what we are atlking about
07:29	heno	meta-bug tag?
07:29	bdmurray	Well, it is metabug
07:29	bdmurray	Currently used for bugs with a high probability of duplicates
07:30	heno	oic
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
07:31	heno	right lrt's look at what's in there already, and perhaps promote its use more
07:31	heno	let's wrap up this meeting now though, we've been 1.5 hrs
07:32	heno	thanks everyone for attending!}}}