== Log ==
UTC
{{{
19:01	MootBot	Meeting started at 19:01. The chair is heno.
19:01	MootBot	Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
19:01	heno	[TOPIC] Testing wiki cleanup day - suggestion from stgraber to follow up on Davmor2's new testing page
19:01	MootBot	New Topic:  Testing wiki cleanup day - suggestion from stgraber to follow up on Davmor2's new testing page
19:01	heno	I don't think either of them are here
19:02	nand	<stgraber> nand: I won't be there :(
19:02	bdmurray	It sounded like a good idea to me
19:02	heno	yep, we just need to pick a day
19:03	heno	Thurs. Jan 3rd?
19:04	liw	ok by me
19:04	heno	(to not conflict with a bug day)
19:04	heno	ok, let's go with that
19:05	heno	[AGREED] QA Wiki cleanup day will be Jan 3rd 2008
19:05	MootBot	AGREED received:  QA Wiki cleanup day will be Jan 3rd 2008
19:05	heno	[TOPIC] qa-hardy-list discussion
19:05	MootBot	New Topic:  qa-hardy-list discussion
19:05	heno	the list has about 120 bugs ATM
19:06	heno	btw, agenda with links: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
19:06	pedro_	https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=qa-hardy-list
19:07	heno	The purpose of this list is a recommendation from the Canonical QA team to the distro team for what they should focus on
19:07	heno	I would ask that community members not add items to that list directly, but please do make suggestions
19:08	heno	It will to some degree determine the use of Canonical-paid time, so it makes sense to filter it in that way IMO
19:09	heno	At the same time, it's not hidden in any way
19:09	heno	So, with that out of the way, any comments on the contents?
19:09	ogasawara	I assume we should go through and triage any which still need Importance/Status set
19:10	heno	we should
19:10	liw	importance isn't enough to tell distro team what to work on first?
19:10	heno	there are just too many I think
19:11	heno	and importance mainly shows the severity of the bug
19:11	bdmurray	Are they all verified in Hardy?
19:11	ogasawara	bdmurray: I don't think so.  it would be good to verify if the issue is still present with Alpha2
19:11	heno	while a Low bug with 100 subscribers that's been around for 2 years might be good to fix now
19:12	heno	even if it's only a rendering glitch or something
19:12	heno	in fact devs should work on High priority bugs as well; this is a supliment to that lisy
19:12	ogasawara	heno: the one hurdle I see there is that some of those reports that span many releases often grow wildly out of control and deviate from the original report
19:12	heno	raising other issues on the radar
19:13	heno	ogasawara: what can we do about that? Distill the remaining issue in a new bug and dupe the old one to the new, cleaned up one?
19:14	heno	I have added some messy bugs to the list myself
19:15	bdmurray	Looking at the list the 120 number isn't right
19:15	ogasawara	heno: that might help and at least give us a fresh starting point
19:15	bdmurray	Some show up more than once
19:15	pedro_	yeah there's a few of them with more than one task.
19:15	bdmurray	in regards to messy bugs I think it'd be better to clear up the description
19:16	bdmurray	I think that is what it was designed for
19:16	heno	that list view is very annoying
19:16	heno	I don't have strong feelings about that
19:17	heno	what bdmurray says is the traditional way of doing it though
19:17	heno	Perhaps we should use some markup to show that a description has been enhanced in that way
19:18	stgraber	hello
19:18	stgraber	I can sort of follow the meeting
19:18	heno	*** SUMMARY *** for example
19:18	bdmurray	Is "This description was updated" not enough?
19:18	stgraber	(I managed to find an internet connection) :)
19:18	bdmurray	heno: that makes sense similar to "TEST CASE" and "WORKAROUND"
19:18	heno	stgraber: we decided on Jan 3rd for wiki day
19:19	somerville32	heno, sorry to interrupt, but I want to introduce you to sroberts. He is new to the community but he is interested in assisting pull up the slack with Xubuntu QA now that Jim is more busy IRL. :)
19:19	heno	bdmurray: agreed. Just to catch they eye
19:19	stgraber	heno: ok
19:19	heno	hello sroberts :)
19:19	sroberts	hello :)
19:19	somerville32	:)
19:19	jeromeg	hey sroberts
19:20	bdmurray	sroberts: I'd be happy to talk to you after the meeting in regards to bugs if you'd like
19:20	sroberts	bdmurray: sure
19:20	heno	we might get some CDs to test late tonight
19:20	heno	(if not tomorrow)
19:21	heno	about the list -- I've gone through Gutsy and Hardy nominations and printing bugs
19:21	jeromeg	sroberts: happy to have some help to triage xubuntu bugs
19:21	heno	I'm now looking at high dupe count bugs
19:22	heno	High subscriber and team reported are still up for grabs
19:22	bdmurray	I'll take one of them
19:22	heno	liw: did you identify some bugs from testing we should add?
19:23	liw	heno, still working on the list -- but nothing so far, actually, all problems are minor (symlinks or files left behind after upgrades, mostly)
19:23	heno	bdmurray: which one? :)
19:24	heno	liw: ok, perhaps you could look at bugs tagged as iso-testing as well then?
19:24	jeromeg	bdmurray: i triage most bugs for xubuntu so I can explain everything to sroberts
19:24	bdmurray	heno: subscribers
19:24	heno	Things that seem grave and widespread
19:24	bdmurray	jeromeg: okay, cool.  well if you need anything let me know.
19:24	jeromeg	bdmurray: or at least what i know
19:24	jeromeg	bdmurray: time :)
19:25	bdmurray	okay, well not that
19:25	jeromeg	:)
19:25	liw	heno, er, are we talking about the same thing? I'm going through the piuparts log files for failures and looking for problems there (but I can look at bugs in launchpad too, of course)
19:25	bdmurray	However, there are some time saving tools like bughelper that might be useful to you
19:26	heno	liw: right, my suggestion was looking for high impact things in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=iso-testing
19:26	liw	heno, right, I'll do that
19:26	heno	and the adding the qa-hardy-list tag
19:27	heno	liw: thanks. You've probably filed several of those in fact
19:27	heno	I'll look at the from-teams list
19:28	heno	great, let's try to get those in some time tomorrow and I'll send the list of to the distro team
19:28	heno	[TOPIC] Alpha 2 image testing
19:28	MootBot	New Topic:  Alpha 2 image testing
19:29	heno	So we don't quite know when this will start, likely tomorrow morning
19:29	bdmurray	heno: is that UTC?
19:29	heno	Again, Alpha 2 mainly needs a sanity check on most images
19:29	heno	bdmurray: yeah, sorry :)
19:29	stgraber	so, is it still planned for tomorrow or will more likely be released on friday ?
19:30	heno	before bedtime tonight OR time would be my guess
19:30	heno	(as Steve the RM is in OR)
19:31	heno	My guess is testing tomorrow, release on Friday
19:32	heno	I don't think we can arrange much testing on Friday itself
19:32	stgraber	indeed
19:32	heno	lots of people will be away
19:32	heno	or working <not from home>
19:32	pedro_	when is the 2.6.24 hug day?
19:32	pedro_	is tomorrow also?
19:32	heno	after alpha 2
19:33	pedro_	ok ok
19:33	heno	bdmurray: any details?
19:33	heno	ogasawara: ^ ?
19:33	bdmurray	There is a list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20071219
19:33	bdmurray	the tasks are in progress
19:34	bdmurray	I queried based off 2.6.22 bugs with recent (past 4 weeks) comments
19:34	ogasawara	but we'd like to wait with the hug day until Alpha2 is officially out
19:34	pedro_	totally
19:34	heno	which will likely take us past the Holidays
19:34	bdmurray	hrm
19:35	heno	or perhaps Friday
19:35	ogasawara	I'm hoping for Friday
19:35	heno	ok, cool
19:35	heno	gives reporters a chance to respond over the break
19:35	heno	ok, fingers crossed
19:35	heno	next
19:36	heno	[TOPIC] Bug Day - no package analysis
19:36	MootBot	New Topic:  Bug Day - no package analysis
19:36	heno	bdmurray: care to elaborate?
19:37	bdmurray	I was wondering what packages the no package bug day bugs got assigned to
19:37	bdmurray	40 went to linux-source-2.6.22
19:37	bdmurray	34 stayed with ubuntu probably due to their not being enough information
19:37	bdmurray	then 9 to xorg, and 7 to kdebase
19:38	bdmurray	so the quantity dropped off pretty quickly
19:38	heno	bdmurray: do you have a link to the current graph for no-pkg?
19:38	bdmurray	http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/testing_graphs/nopackage.html
19:38	MootBot	LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/testing_graphs/nopackage.html
19:39	heno	I wonder if many of the no-pkg bugs are there because it was difficult to figure out where it should go?
19:39	heno	have the tricky ones been piling up?
19:39	bdmurray	Right, that I was really curious how useful writing about "Help -> Report a Bug" would be
19:39	heno	that might well be over-represented by obscure packages
19:39	bdmurray	and with 40 kernel bugs probably not much
19:40	bdmurray	but it still couldn't hurt
19:41	heno	looks like we should revisit this bug day topic in a few weeks
19:41	bdmurray	probably
19:41	heno	bdmurray: you mean that guide is not helpful for kernel bugs, but most other bugs?
19:42	bdmurray	I meant that with the kernel, xorg, compiz there is no "Help" menu to go to in the application
19:43	heno	oh, right
19:44	heno	we should make wishlist bugs to add that ;)
19:44	bdmurray	Additonally it seems like the no package bugs could be a blind spot for the kernel
19:44	heno	yet, 40 doesn't seem too bad
19:44	heno	out of 800 or whatever
19:45	bdmurray	It as 40 out of 238
19:45	heno	oh, that is a fair bit
19:45	liw	17%
19:45	bdmurray	actually 43 for those doing percentages
19:45	heno	16.8 ;p
19:45	heno	meh
19:46	heno	anyway, significant
19:46	liw	18.06722689075630252100% then, approximately :P
19:46	heno	and how many for related things like lrm, initramfs, etc?
19:47	bdmurray	okay +4 with lrm
19:47	bdmurray	regardless still a fair bit
19:47	heno	do many of the no-pkg bugs have dupes already on them?
19:48	heno	and how many were duped during this triage?
19:48	bdmurray	only 2
19:48	bdmurray	http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/gt2dups/no-package.html
19:48	MootBot	LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/gt2dups/no-package.html
19:49	heno	ok, so there is likely quite a bit of dupe material in there
19:50	heno	bdmurray: do you want to write up some musings on this?
19:50	bdmurray	What do you mean?  A lot of the no-package ones are likely duplicates?
19:50	heno	bdmurray: right, of things that already have a package
19:51	heno	2 bugs with dupes from a pool of 2000 is tiny
19:52	heno	so if someone knows enough about a bug to link a dupe, they probably also know it's package
19:52	heno	btw, I wonder how many were genuine no-pk bugs?
19:52	bdmurray	hrm, that report I linked to is old
19:52	heno	and should we tag them as such?
19:52	bdmurray	I'll look into that after the meeting
19:53	heno	ok, cool
19:53	heno	I'm sure we can squeeze some metrics from this :)
19:54	heno	[TOPIC] Next meeting
19:54	MootBot	New Topic:  Next meeting
19:54	heno	We should do one the first week of Jan IMO, but when?
19:54	liw	I'm fine with Wed 2 Jan for a meeting, but I gather people might be on vacation still?
19:55	ogasawara	Jan 2 works for me as well
19:55	pedro_	I'd like to have it the 4th
19:55	heno	we likely won't have much to talk about then
19:55	bdmurray	we would have anything new to report?
19:55	pedro_	so you have a couple of days to read your email
19:55	heno	:)
19:55	pedro_	and talk about some issue you'd find
19:55	liw	nothing to report -> wonderfully short a meeting :)
19:55	stgraber	I'll probably not be around on the 2nd
19:55	ogasawara	Jan 4th works too
19:55	stgraber	(looks like a LUG meeting date :))
19:55	liw	I'm also fine with Jan 4
19:55	pedro_	or the 1 of January
19:55	stgraber	+1 for 4th
19:55	pedro_	a:-)
19:56	heno	looks like the 4th
19:56	stgraber	pedro_: yeah, what about the 1st at like 1:00 UTC ? :)
19:56	heno	pedro_: I suspect a meeting the 1st would be rather empty :)
19:56	pedro_	stgraber: yeah! that's what i'm talking about!
19:56	pedro_	hey i can bring some champagne
19:56	nand	:)
19:57	heno	If so we should do it by voice
19:57	liw	jan 4, at 18:00 UTC?
19:57	heno	just a social meeting
19:58	heno	works for me
19:58	heno	any objections to 18.00 UTC?
19:58	ogasawara	nope
19:58	stgraber	fine for me
* bdmurray is doing tz math
19:58	bdmurray	that'l be fine
19:59	pedro_	fine for me  too
19:59	liw	bdmurray, should be 10:00 west coast time, right?
19:59	nand	good
19:59	bdmurray	liw: thanks, I got it worked out ;)
19:59	heno	[AGREED] Next meeting on Jan 4th at 18.00 UTC
19:59	MootBot	AGREED received:  Next meeting on Jan 4th at 18.00 UTC
* liw successfully destroyed any plans to go to a party on Friday night :)
19:59	pedro_	haha
20:00	heno	#endmeeting
20:00	MootBot	Meeting finished at 20:00.}}}