20080213

Log

UTC 

16:00   MootBot Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is heno.
16:00   MootBot Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
16:00   heno    Welcome all
16:00   heno    agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
16:01   highvoltage     hi heno
* ogasawara is here
16:01   heno    [TOPIC] Splitting hardy qa bug list into teams
16:01   MootBot New Topic:  Splitting hardy qa bug list into teams
16:01   heno    hi highvoltage :)
16:02   ogasawara       it's been on my todo list to split the list into teams, just haven't gotten around to it
16:03   heno    ogasawara: do you need help with sorting the bugs, is it a manual process or will you get info from LP on bug contacts or something?
16:03   bdmurray        ogasawara: is that in the bzr tree yet?
16:03   ogasawara       heno: I'd prefer for it to not be a manual process :)  so was going to look at making it more automated first
16:04   bdmurray        I think I've seen a "platform team" in launchpad now
16:04   ogasawara       bdmurray: yes, it's in the bzr tree - well my branch in plb since the script doesn't require a separate text file to contain the list
16:05   ogasawara       bdmurray: uses plb and sorts against the tag
16:05   heno    so we can get platform, desktop, kernel and 'other'
16:05   heno    or do we need more groups?
16:05   heno    server perhaps
16:06   bdmurray        Is the platform team confirmed?  I'm poking around now.
16:07   bdmurray        Well, regardless there should be one. ;)
16:08   heno    I'm just thinking a manual sort could be done in 20-30 minutes (but that won't be of any use in the next cycle of course)
16:08   ogasawara       heno: agreed.  I'm just thinking going forward maintaining a manual sorted list will be a pain
16:09   heno    ogasawara: It's your call; go with automation if you fell that's right and have a rough idea of how it could be done
16:10   ogasawara       heno: I'll send everyone email if I run into any issues and need help
16:10   heno    ok, great
16:10   heno    next topic
16:11   heno    [TOPIC] Revising the bug hint page to point at ReportingBugs. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/LpGuideText
16:11   MootBot New Topic:  Revising the bug hint page to point at ReportingBugs. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/LpGuideText
16:11   heno    bdmurray: does that new version look OK to you?
16:12   bdmurray        One reasonable thing I've heard is splitting 3 into 2 bits. so 3) what happened? 4) what you expected to happen?
16:12   liw     in point 1, I would say System -> About Ubuntu first, cat second
16:12   pedro_  i have al ittle concern with it
16:12   liw     likewise in 2, I guess
16:13   pedro_  oh liw yes that one
16:13   heno    bdmurray: sounds fine
16:13   bdmurray        The third paragraph I might add a bit how "Report a Problem" automatically does 1 and 2.
16:13   heno    pedro_: was that your concern?
16:13   pedro_  do you  find really useful the cat /etc/lsb-release ?
16:14   pedro_  I've found that some reporters tend to submit that like "new shiny info"
16:14   bdmurray        pedro_: The information regarding the release is valuable.  What are you getting at?
16:14   pedro_  and re open bugs just because of that
16:14   heno    bdmurray: without the text growing too much :)
16:14   bdmurray        heno: right ;)
16:14   pedro_  we've experience that last weeks at least
16:15   bdmurray        pedro_: I'm not following do you have an example?
16:15   pedro_  sure let me find one
16:16   heno    I'm still not sure we need the command line versions there; can we move that to a wiki page this links to?
16:16   heno    those who absolutely prefer that would know to use it
16:16   heno    people running servers for example
16:17   heno    The tighter the text the more likely it will be read
16:17   liw     I'm fine with moving command line versions elsewhere
16:17   pedro_  i'd really happy with that
16:17   heno    'dpkg -l PKGNAME | cat' will make many just skip reading the whole thing IMO
16:17   bdmurray        When I talked to mpt about it he thought the command line versions were the best as they are the most accessible.
16:18   bdmurray        Additionally, they are available across flavours of Ubuntu.
16:18   liw     lots of people who need to read that text don't even know what a command line is and will go ga-ga if they see such stuff...
16:19   heno    Yeah, I think we should over rule mpt on this point
16:19   bdmurray        I think we should look at bug reports and see what the reaction has been rather than guessing.
16:19   heno    people generally know that Synaptic is replaced by Adept if they use Kubuntu
16:19   pedro_  liw: yes it confuse more than help them
16:19   liw     then again, I go ga-ga myself, if there's more than four words or so
16:19   liw     bdmurray, good point
16:20   liw     bdmurray, although... people who go ga-ga might not be reporting problems at all anymore?
16:20   heno    ok, let's implement the other suggestions and revisit this one at the next meeting
16:21   heno    bdmurray: will you look at a sampling of bugs to see what we are getting?
16:21   bdmurray        heno: sure
16:21   heno    that will be interesting in any case
16:21   bdmurray        maybe 100?
16:21   pedro_  bug 187638
16:21   ubotu   Launchpad bug 187638 in nautilus-sendto "package nautilus-sendto 0.13.1-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: unable to fill /var/lib/dpkg/updates/tmp.i with padding (dup-of: 187634)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187638
16:21   ubotu   Launchpad bug 187634 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "package linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-5-generic None failed to install/upgrade: failed in buffer_write(fd) (10, ret=-1)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187634
16:21   pedro_  there's one reporter that's sending the same info with apport
16:22   bdmurray        I wouldn't complain about having too much information
16:22   pedro_  doing the cat lsb-release, so maybe we should write an exception on the filing bugs help about it
16:23   heno    I would agree with that
16:23   pedro_  i'm totally ok on getting the more info that's possible but replicate info isn't good
16:23   heno    we'll let bdmurray make the case for leaving it in at the next meeting ;)
16:24   heno    armed with data
16:24   heno    ok, next topic
16:24   heno    [TOPIC] Data gathering for Bugs/PathsToFile -- log analysis and survey
16:24   MootBot New Topic:  Data gathering for Bugs/PathsToFile -- log analysis and survey
16:24   bdmurray        well system -> about ubuntu is wrong on hardy
16:25   pedro_  bug 176678
16:25   ubotu   Launchpad bug 176678 in ubuntu-docs "Startup page for firefox states "Welcome to Ubuntu 7.10!" when it should say "Welcome to Ubuntu 8.04 (alpha 1)!" " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176678
16:27   bdmurray        That should really happen right at the beginning of the development cycle.
16:28   heno    perhaps we should get some bug guidance info on that page too
16:28   heno    Please look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/PathsToFile
16:29   heno    I'm hoping to identify how people arrive at filing a bug and what docs they see along the way
16:29   heno    We can get some access logs from IS
16:30   stgraber        hello
16:30   heno    Anyone want to have a poke at those to see how people navigate to the bug page?
16:32   ogasawara       I'm just curious what we plan to do with this information once we get it?
16:33   heno    ogasawara: make sure that people are exposed to information on how to file a good bug along the most common routes to filing one
16:33   heno    The survey might actually provide better info though
16:34   heno    we are looking for a rough overview rather than detailed stats
16:34   heno    And we don't expect to do a running analysis
16:34   bdmurray        it seems like the ubuntuforums admins might be worth talking to
16:35   heno    good point. I think there is a Fourum Council meeting soon
16:36   heno    I'll bring it there
16:36   bdmurray        google says nothing links to +filebug
16:36   heno    interesting
16:37   heno    from seeing the logs of that page, nearly all refs were from the LP ubuntu page
16:37   bdmurray        I could be doing something wrong though
16:37   heno    but we should track back from that
16:37   ogasawara       http://www.ubuntu.com has a "Report a Problem" link
16:38   MootBot LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com has a "Report a Problem" link
16:38   heno    bdmurray: could you try the same with the LP ubuntu page?
16:38   stgraber        bdmurray: Is the file a bug button visible when not logged in ? that would explain why it isn't on google
16:38   bdmurray        stgraber: yeah, I just got to thinking that
16:39   stgraber        that or the +filebug page returns a no-index value so it isn't indexed by search engines
16:39   bdmurray        but shouldn't links to it show up? or does google just ignore "broken" links
16:40   liw     why would anyone link to a page people can't access unless they create an account and log in? if they log in, they can just click on the "report bug" link from lots of places, can't they?
16:40   heno    http://www.ubuntu.com/community/reportproblem needs some improving; I'll email Matt Nuzum about it
16:40   MootBot LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/reportproblem needs some improving; I'll email Matt Nuzum about it
16:42   heno    Can anyone think of questions that should be added to the survey?
16:42   heno    (I will run the by mpt as well)
16:43   heno    I've shown this to the LP bugs team as well
16:44   bdmurray        How will people answer question 4?
16:44   bdmurray        It's possible the bug still is filed about the appropriate package.
16:44   bdmurray        gah - isn't
16:45   heno    true - it should rather be whether they found it easy to identify and mark the right package
16:46   heno    some packages are just tricky - openoffice, kernel, xorg
16:46   bdmurray        mark *a* package - right is rather subjective
16:46   bdmurray        3.5 should be do you know what a package is?
16:47   liw     "right" also requires them to be confident they chose the right package -- I often guess, sometimes wrongly
16:47   heno    these will be full text questions/answers so we would get that info
16:48   heno    I'd like to see the posibility to select a category before selecting the package so it can at least go to the right team
16:49   heno    openoffice, printing, display, system
16:49   bdmurray        I think some of that exists to a degree already
16:49   heno    as possible categories
16:49   bdmurray        display - xorg
16:49   bdmurray        printing - cupsys
16:51   heno    bdmurray: on the package search?
16:52   bdmurray        No at FindRightPackage
16:52   heno    I've got to run to a phone meeting in a minute
16:53   heno    bdmurray: ok, I was thinking to create LP functionality like guidel filing in the gnome bugzilla
16:53   heno    final topic: would someone like to summarize today's meeting?
16:54   bdmurray        okay, I don't think having a whole separate pseudo package is best
16:54   liw     heno, I can do that
16:54   heno    liw: great thanks!
16:54   pedro_  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi <- guide bug filing
16:54   MootBot LINK received:  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi <- guide bug filing
16:54   heno    sorry, I've got to run
16:54   heno    #endmeeting
16:54   MootBot Meeting finished at 16:54.

MeetingLogs/QATeam/20080213 (last edited 2008-08-06 17:00:41 by localhost)