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(02:01:04 PM) heno: hey everyone!
(02:01:19 PM) heno: let's start
(02:01:26 PM) heno: #startmeeting
(02:01:27 PM) MootBot: Meeting started at 19:01. The chair is heno.
(02:01:27 PM) MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
(02:01:39 PM) heno: agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
(02:02:26 PM) heno: [TOPIC] qa-hardy-list promotion
(02:02:26 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  qa-hardy-list promotion
(02:03:13 PM) heno: ogasawara: thanks for splitting that up. I've emailed various lists about it and will attend IRC meetings to follow up
(02:03:45 PM) heno: I don't think that needs discussion
(02:03:54 PM) heno: [TOPIC] QA poll site beta testing
(02:03:54 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  QA poll site beta testing
(02:03:59 PM) nand: hi! sorry, a bit late
(02:04:20 PM) heno: nand: just getting to your topic
(02:04:24 PM) bdmurray: heno: Do you promotion in terms of advertising?
(02:04:34 PM) nand: perfect timing :)
(02:04:43 PM) nand: heno: some news on the subdomains?
(02:04:45 PM) heno: bdmurray: yes
(02:04:51 PM) heno: nand: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ ...
(02:05:05 PM) nand: it's up?
(02:05:14 PM) heno: bdmurray: any further ides on that?
(02:05:27 PM) heno: nand: yes
(02:05:44 PM) bdmurray: heno: no, I was thinking of promotion as "escalation" not promoting
(02:05:46 PM) heno: but I guess it needs some drupal magic
(02:05:58 PM) stgraber: hmm, cookie seems broken on brainstorm.ubuntu.com
(02:06:16 PM) stgraber: nand: the cookie thing I told you about ^^
(02:06:18 PM) bdmurray: I'm all set now though
(02:06:27 PM) heno: ok, cool
(02:06:36 PM) nand: nice! Tomorrow, we'll update the htaccess and sql updates
(02:06:54 PM) nand: stgraber: yes, I guess we will have to do with it
(02:07:21 PM) nand: That will give us a short time to test
(02:07:24 PM) heno: should we devise a test plan for the site? (everyone here add 3 ideas and 3 bugs or something)
(02:07:32 PM) stgraber: nand: well, as it's now I just can't login on brainstorm.u.c, so I'll have to update the cookie part of the config file to fix that
(02:07:50 PM) heno: just asking 'please test' doesn't seem to be working
(02:08:07 PM) stgraber: indeed :)
(02:08:51 PM) nand: yes, let's ask everyone to add a few bugs/ideas, at least to have some pagination
(02:09:13 PM) heno: ok, hands up all who volunteer to add 3 items to each site and do some voting and poking around
(02:09:25 PM) heno: o/
(02:10:02 PM) nand: what a crowd today :)
(02:10:12 PM) heno: [... silence ...]
(02:10:24 PM) nand: ok, I'll flood it myself...
(02:10:28 PM) ogasawara: I'll try to do some testing
(02:10:28 PM) davmor2: I can o/
(02:10:34 PM) heno: it should take about 7 minutes :)
(02:11:19 PM) nand: heno: do you want to know right now the planned release date, to coordinate and such?
(02:11:28 PM) stgraber: nand: did you switch to GET instead of POST for the ajax stuff in your next commit ? (I'm not sure it'll fix my PROXY bug but it's worth a try and shouldn't cause any regression)
(02:11:34 PM) heno: does everyone have access to the beta?
(02:11:52 PM) stgraber: if everyone means people speaking in this chan, then yes
(02:12:03 PM) nand: stgraber: not yet. I'll try tonight
(02:12:11 PM) heno: ok, cool
(02:12:31 PM) stgraber: I was thinking of Thursday the 28th as a release date
(02:12:38 PM) pedro_: stgraber: I've logged in and it doesn't work here, I've got a cute 403 again
(02:13:00 PM) stgraber: pedro_: use qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas and qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/bugs instead
(02:13:04 PM) davmor2: stgraber: I can't log in either as above
(02:13:10 PM) stgraber: pedro_: brainstorm.u.c doesn't work yet
(02:13:19 PM) stgraber: davmor2: same as pedro_
(02:13:20 PM) nand: wait for tomorrow's update
(02:13:27 PM) davmor2: stgraber: yes
(02:13:27 PM) pedro_: ok ok
(02:13:43 PM) nand: 28th : we can try for it
(02:14:08 PM) nand: monday we reset everything, remove the restriction
(02:14:21 PM) nand: that means everything must be ok friday
(02:14:23 PM) davmor2: stgraber: ping me when it's safe to test
(02:14:42 PM) stgraber: I'll be on holiday next week so I should have time to fix last minute stuff for the release
(02:14:50 PM) nand: nice
(02:15:03 PM) stgraber: davmor2: you can use qa.ubuntu.com, it'll be the same module but with a different URL
(02:15:15 PM) heno: yeah I just noticed that too. brainstorm.u.c won't work just yet i guess
(02:15:49 PM) davmor2: stgraber: yes I mean the brainstorm
(02:15:59 PM) heno: bdmurray, ogasawara: please have a quick poke at the bugs part at least http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/bugs/
(02:15:59 PM) stgraber: nand: IIRC the site config which contains the cookie definition is a php file, so we probably can update the cookie field depending on the URL
(02:16:09 PM) stgraber: nand: the user will have to login twice anyway
(02:16:23 PM) ogasawara: heno: will do
(02:16:27 PM) bdmurray: heno: okay
(02:16:38 PM) stgraber: davmor2: brainstorm.ubuntu.com will be an alias for http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas
(02:17:16 PM) heno: about launch date: I'm happy for nand and stgraber to decide on that
(02:17:32 PM) davmor2: stgraber: that works :) so you just want a bunch of ideas dropping in there to test it?
(02:17:38 PM) stgraber: davmor2: yep
(02:17:47 PM) davmor2: stgraber: np
(02:17:51 PM) ***heno looks at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
(02:18:05 PM) heno: nothing bit happening just after Alpha 5
(02:18:23 PM) stgraber: 28th will be the UI/artwork freeze
(02:18:42 PM) heno: *big
(02:18:52 PM) bdmurray: Isn't it a bit late for ideas since we are past feature freeze?
(02:19:08 PM) nand: heno: How many days before the release do you want to be warned, for coordination and stuff?
(02:19:18 PM) heno: bdmurray: these would be seed ideas for the next UDS
(02:19:19 PM) nand: bdmurray: of course, it's ideas for hardy+1 :)
(02:19:43 PM) davmor2: bdmurray: it can be like the one I am currently writing an on going idea :)
(02:20:12 PM) bdmurray: Okay, they doesn't seem to be conveyed at qapoll/ideas/
(02:20:14 PM) stgraber: bdmurray: well, just report those as usability bug then :)
(02:20:28 PM) heno: nand: a day or two is fine for me personally
(02:20:35 PM) nand: ok
(02:21:03 PM) heno: I do want to write some docs explaining the purpose of each site
(02:21:16 PM) heno: can we have an About link on each?
(02:21:50 PM) bdmurray: I think managing people's expectations is important and should happen right at the site.
(02:21:56 PM) davmor2: stgraber: seems to work fine :)
(02:21:56 PM) nand: yes, we should. And with some contacts too
(02:22:06 PM) heno: bdmurray: agreed
(02:22:29 PM) stgraber: nand: I did a quick demo of QA-Poll to one of my teachers this morning and something that was hard to understand/use was the duplicate UI
(02:22:36 PM) nand: I think instead of the "Ubuntu website" link, we could put a "About" box
(02:23:04 PM) nand: stgraber: what was confusing?
(02:23:07 PM) stgraber: nand: IIRC, you can't just select two ideas in the idea list and mark those as duplicates and the link on the idea page was hard to find
(02:23:25 PM) heno: sounds good
(02:23:46 PM) heno: let's continue the details of that in #u-testing or so
(02:24:01 PM) heno: [TOPIC] Kernel bug list migration. see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelBugMigration
(02:24:02 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Kernel bug list migration. see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelBugMigration
(02:24:05 PM) nand: ok, please continue!
(02:24:35 PM) heno: ogasawara and I have been looking at this with the LP folks
(02:25:06 PM) heno: it's a sensitive issue; automatically modifying lots of bugs
(02:25:35 PM) heno: the transition to a new package name is a good time to do it though
(02:26:13 PM) heno: pedro_: have you been doing the gaim -> pidgin migration? any fall-out from that?
(02:26:31 PM) ogasawara: heno:  I think as long as we are clear to our bug reporters that we are not closing their bugs but rather making sure we're carrying them forward we won't have too much backlash
(02:26:57 PM) bdmurray: ogasawara: I check with markus regarding adding a task
(02:27:06 PM) pedro_: heno: it was just for the upstream project and there's like 20 bugs or so, so changing that wouldn't be hard
(02:28:54 PM) heno: so are we agreed on the approach? add a 'linux' task set to incomplete and set the others to 'Won'f fix'?
(02:29:00 PM) pedro_: at point 4 of the process which metadata you loss if you change the task from linux-source-something to linux?
(02:29:18 PM) pedro_: the name of the package?
(02:29:25 PM) pedro_: can that be resolved with a tag?
(02:29:58 PM) heno: yeah, what meta data is lost?
(02:30:03 PM) bdmurray: I'm concerned about "Won't fix"ing some that may be sru worthy
(02:30:26 PM) pedro_: because for me it seems that the option 4 is the best one
(02:30:35 PM) ogasawara: i was concerned about losing the history of a bug being open across multiple releases
(02:30:57 PM) heno: bdmurray: are you worried that they will slip off our radar as well (the won't fix can be changed again)
(02:31:08 PM) bdmurray: I seem to recall talking about Ben about that and that is something he didn't want to lose.
(02:32:20 PM) bdmurray: heno: I think that 2.6.15 or 2.6.22 bugs that are high or critical should be manually inspected.
(02:32:52 PM) heno: bdmurray: agreed, I assume we can black list those in the script
(02:32:57 PM) nand left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(02:33:00 PM) heno: or ust looked at first
(02:33:09 PM) heno: *just
(02:33:51 PM) heno: when should we move forward with this? do we need a dry run of some kind?
(02:34:07 PM) bdmurray: right, either way.
(02:34:23 PM) ogasawara: we'll need to investigate the adding new tasks functionality with plb
(02:36:16 PM) heno: ok, let's add a todo list to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelBugMigration
(02:37:13 PM) ogasawara: I'll add it
(02:37:35 PM) heno: * new task functionality, * manually clean up some categories of bugs, * dry run, * live run
(02:37:39 PM) heno: or so
(02:37:48 PM) heno: ok, cool. net topic
(02:38:02 PM) heno: ah, my typing sux today :(
(02:38:32 PM) heno: [TOPIC] malone buglist - tagging these so they are viewable in Launchpad. see: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/malone-buglist.html
(02:38:33 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  malone buglist - tagging these so they are viewable in Launchpad. see: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/malone-buglist.html
(02:38:35 PM) davmor2: heno: my typing sucks everyday :)
(02:39:00 PM) ogasawara: so mpt was inquiring why we don't just tag the bugs lists here and then use lp to display them
(02:39:00 PM) heno: I assume we are looking for volunteers here? ;)
(02:39:11 PM) ogasawara: I have a script to tag bugs
(02:39:23 PM) heno: ogasawara: right, that's what bjorn wants as well
(02:39:37 PM) ***heno cheers ogasawara
(02:39:45 PM) ogasawara: so can we agree on a tag name?
(02:39:52 PM) heno: let's JUST DO IT
(02:39:53 PM) ogasawara: ubuntu-qa?
(02:40:23 PM) heno: sounds good, that lets other teams use ubuntu-desktop etc.
(02:41:01 PM) bdmurray: How could we convey the importance of the bug to us?
(02:43:02 PM) heno: we don't do it ATM, apart from the comment column
(02:43:45 PM) ogasawara: we could easily just have it as part of the tag for ex - ubuntu-qa-high
(02:43:45 PM) heno: adding a separate tag or changing it to ubuntu-qa-high both seem like cludgy
(02:43:47 PM) bdmurray: Actually, I'm not certain how useful that is.
(02:44:18 PM) heno: ogasawara: yeah, but then you have to search on 3 tags
(02:44:25 PM) bdmurray: I mean its no different than someone saying I have to have this piece of hardy working.
(02:44:26 PM) pedro_: does lp allow you to search for more than one tag?
(02:44:31 PM) pedro_: right...
(02:44:47 PM) ogasawara: pedro_: yup
(02:44:49 PM) bdmurray: wow, bad typing is contagious.  I meant this piece of hardware
(02:44:53 PM) davmor2: bdmurray: does this list not pertain to bugs already listed if so wouldn't the bug itself have a rating?
(02:44:58 PM) heno: perhaps we should just pick out our top 10 and email the list to bjorn
(02:45:10 PM) heno: ... once a week :)
(02:45:15 PM) bdmurray: heno: heh
(02:45:46 PM) ogasawara: does the Importance that's already set in the report not properly reflect the priority we think it should be?
(02:46:26 PM) heno: ogasawara: often not; as that's LP's own take on the priority
(02:46:32 PM) davmor2: ogasawara: That's my point I think.  Just put better :)
(02:46:54 PM) heno: Ubuntu is only one of many users of LP (though by far the biggest ATM)
(02:47:30 PM) heno: can we use ubuntu-qa + ubuntu-high?
(02:47:36 PM) ogasawara: so will us marking our own priority actually get them to resolve it faster?
(02:47:44 PM) bdmurray: Thinking about it some more I've never seen a definition of how the Launchpad team uses bug Status, but it is probably not the same as we, the Ubuntu distro, use them.
(02:47:46 PM) heno: that way you avoid the permutations at least
(02:48:08 PM) heno: and you can get a full ubuntu-qa list easily
(02:48:36 PM) bdmurray: I think by shoehorning our priority in there we are setting a bad precedent.
(02:49:08 PM) heno: that's true
(02:49:12 PM) ogasawara: I think we should be no different than any other lp users
(02:49:31 PM) ogasawara: we see reports all the time where bug reporters feel their bugs are top priority
(02:49:33 PM) heno: I think intel do this on some bugs
(02:49:44 PM) heno: with an intel-high tag
(02:50:03 PM) ogasawara: heno:  right, they do
(02:50:37 PM) heno: shall we proceed with just the ubuntu-qa tag and look at social forms of communicating priority first?
(02:50:46 PM) heno: email and bug comments
(02:50:51 PM) bdmurray: that sounds best to me
(02:50:52 PM) pedro_: agreed
(02:50:55 PM) ogasawara: sounds good
(02:51:25 PM) heno: good, next topic
(02:51:36 PM) heno: [TOPIC] yesterday's bugs formatting discussion draft at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewBugs/20080219
(02:51:36 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  yesterday's bugs formatting discussion draft at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewBugs/20080219
(02:52:11 PM) heno: are we getting a wiki page for each day?
(02:52:34 PM) bdmurray: not yet, I wanted opinions on its utility / formatting
(02:53:16 PM) heno: could be useful for 5-a-day work
(02:53:32 PM) bdmurray: I was thinking having a column for the sourcepackage might be more useful than the Status/Importance
(02:53:34 PM) heno: someone might chose to focus on those pages
(02:53:55 PM) bdmurray: heno: right, I also though it would be useful in "staying on top" of New bug reports
(02:54:15 PM) heno: yep Status/Importance is a bit pointless here
(02:54:45 PM) bdmurray: of the 170 new yesterday 123 are still New
(02:54:58 PM) bdmurray: that's very approximate
(02:55:11 PM) ogasawara: I think it'd be helpful to see the package name
(02:55:37 PM) heno: but some are fix released :)
(02:55:55 PM) heno: how often is it updated? ever?
(02:55:58 PM) ogasawara: I think that's why there is the disclaimer at the top no?
(02:56:45 PM) heno: it would be very cool to look at a page like this from a month ago
(02:56:46 PM) bdmurray: It isn't updated and the query took about 140 minutes
(02:56:56 PM) heno: with updated statuses
(02:57:06 PM) heno: eeek
(02:57:15 PM) liw: 140 minutes? uh...
(02:57:27 PM) bdmurray: There might be a way to optimize how I'm doing it though
(02:57:29 PM) pedro_: with the new brach? ouch
(02:57:48 PM) heno: bdmurray: that's on your home machine?
(02:57:55 PM) heno: or in the DC?
(02:57:55 PM) bdmurray: nope, that's on rookery
(02:58:10 PM) heno: ooo
(02:58:51 PM) heno: can we justify running that every day?
(02:58:51 PM) bdmurray: Okay, so the answer is it seems quite useful but needs to be faster then.
(02:59:30 PM) heno: bdmurray: let's raise this with kiko; he might have some ideas on that
(02:59:59 PM) heno: with that we are out of time. there is another meeting after us
(03:00:07 PM) heno: #endmeeting
(03:00:07 PM) MootBot: Meeting finished at 20:00.
(03:00:14 PM) heno: thanks all!