(11:01:16 AM) heno: ok, then we can start! (11:01:22 AM) heno: #startmeeting (11:01:23 AM) MootBot: Meeting started at 16:01. The chair is heno. (11:01:23 AM) MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] (11:01:52 AM) heno: agena at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings (11:02:08 AM) heno: [TOPIC] Evaluation of the current bug day arrangement. (11:02:09 AM) MootBot: New Topic: Evaluation of the current bug day arrangement. (11:02:13 AM) stgraber: hello (11:02:21 AM) heno: ... It seems to be going extremely well, with solid community participation and good impact on the numbers. In London we decided to run two bug days each week for a month or two approaching release. Should we make this a permanent arrangement? -- heno (11:02:45 AM) bdmurray: I personally find it hard to participate in both of them (11:02:53 AM) ogasawara_: same here (11:03:09 AM) heno: yeah, I can understand that (11:03:13 AM) pedro_: yes me too, it's hard for me to participate on the Tuesday ones (lot of emails to read basically) (11:04:09 AM) Iulian: Well, here is going well, every morning I have some classes (school) but after that I'm free to give a hand. (11:04:30 AM) Iulian: But I think that's up to you guys. (11:04:59 AM) heno: pedro_: would you be comfortable running the desktop days with just the (growing) community? (11:05:13 AM) pedro_: I'd like to celebrate both bug days, it seems that there's a lot of participation the Thursdays at the desktop hug days (11:05:29 AM) pedro_: heno: of course! (11:05:42 AM) pedro_: the bugsquad is doing an excellent job there (11:05:48 AM) heno: we could look at the QA schedule and select point in the cycle where it makes sense to have two (11:05:57 AM) heno: pedro_: indeed (11:07:38 AM) heno: the time around UDS seems difficult (11:07:54 AM) heno: or any meeting where we all have to attend (11:08:24 AM) heno: but otherwise, are there any bad dates for bug days? (11:08:56 AM) leonel_ is now known as leonel (11:09:34 AM) pedro_: i don't think so, just between meetings they are difficult to do (11:09:38 AM) bdmurray: We didn't have one right after FF because people were so busy (11:10:16 AM) heno: right, just leading up to release might also be busy (11:10:30 AM) bdmurray: right with more testing (11:10:46 AM) heno: but generally, i think we can continue as we are and see what capacity we have (11:11:06 AM) pedro_: agreed with that (11:11:09 AM) heno: with more people joining the bus factor drops also (11:11:26 AM) bdmurray: I think it will be helpful if we can keep the momentum until UDS as we'll need help watching for SRU bugs for Hardy (11:11:38 AM) heno: (ie. we can run them even if a specific person isn't available) (11:12:20 AM) heno: bdmurray: esp as this is an LTS where we will expect to ship updates (11:12:33 AM) heno: in the form of point releases (11:13:16 AM) heno: Ok so we are all agreed the bug days are really rocking these days and not to change them ATM (11:13:22 AM) heno: ! (11:13:51 AM) stgraber: moving room, will be back in ~5min (11:13:52 AM) heno: [TOPIC] Kernel bug migration - are we blocked on bug 193853? (11:13:52 AM) MootBot: New Topic: Kernel bug migration - are we blocked on bug 193853? (11:13:57 AM) ubotu: Launchpad bug 193853 in python-launchpad-bugs "add functionality for adding new tasks to bug report" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193853 (11:14:38 AM) ogasawara_: it really just depends on how we're wanting to handle the migration (11:15:03 AM) ogasawara_: if we just want to mark the linux-source-2.6.22 tasks to Incomplete and ask to test with the Hardy kernel, then we're ok (11:15:32 AM) ogasawara_: it's just an issue if we want to take the extra step of opening the 'linux' task at the same time (11:15:47 AM) heno: they the user has to set the 'linux' task (11:15:52 AM) ogasawara_: right (11:15:56 AM) ogasawara_: or we have to set it (11:16:08 AM) heno: it's fairly easy to do (11:16:31 AM) heno: compared with finding the right pkg in the first place (11:16:51 AM) heno: it will only take 1-2 lines to explain (11:17:10 AM) ***ogasawara_ nods (11:17:35 AM) ogasawara_: but we'll want to make sure they understand that if they don't add the 'linux' task themselves it may get overlooked (11:17:52 AM) heno: ogasawara, can the setting to incomplete and adding comment then be fully automated? (11:18:01 AM) ogasawara_: heno: yes (11:18:23 AM) heno: (once the high and critical bugs are taken care of) (11:18:35 AM) heno: i'm happy with that (11:18:53 AM) heno: rather than waiting for a p-lp-bugs feature (11:19:06 AM) ogasawara_: yup, and I've been trying to take a look at the high and critical ones (11:19:21 AM) heno: excellent (11:19:29 AM) ogasawara_: also the Fix Committed ones are simple to close out (11:19:40 AM) heno: anyone opposed to that approach (11:20:11 AM) heno: are they all in reality fix Released? (11:20:30 AM) ogasawara_: heno: not all, but a majority are (11:21:10 AM) heno: ok, let's go with that then! (11:21:20 AM) heno: what about time lines? (11:21:32 AM) heno: when shall we do this? (11:21:48 AM) ogasawara_: heno: I'll immediately start taking a closer look at the High and Critical ones (11:22:11 AM) ogasawara_: heno: I don't have an exact count of how many there are, but I imagine I can tackle a good chunck of them by next week (11:22:27 AM) heno: ogasawara_, thanks. Let us know how you get on (11:22:40 AM) heno: [TOPIC] QA-poll pre-launch coordination (11:22:45 AM) stgraber: re (11:22:50 AM) stgraber: oh, just in time :) (11:23:01 AM) heno: stgraber: did you want to ask for testing? (11:23:38 AM) heno: or shall we do that in a different forum? (11:23:43 AM) stgraber: well, it's late for testing, but I would like everyone of you to think about two ideas to add right after we release it (11:23:50 AM) MootBot: New Topic: QA-poll pre-launch coordination (11:24:15 AM) heno: So these are ideas for improving Ubuntu (11:24:35 AM) heno: basically feature requests (11:24:46 AM) stgraber: yep, possibly linked to a spec, bug or forum thread (ideal would be the three of them) (11:24:58 AM) heno: 'Video enabled skype should just work' (11:25:21 AM) heno: 'better support for Wacom tablets', etc. (11:25:46 AM) stgraber: 'Easy partition management' (11:25:58 AM) stgraber: 'Graphic backup tool' (11:26:23 AM) heno: stgraber: ok, thanks. we can look at the announcement texts later in #u-testing (11:26:47 AM) heno: liw: did you want to talk about testing packages, or not yet? (11:26:55 AM) stgraber: yes, I'll blog about it (11:27:07 AM) stgraber: heno: can you post on ubuntuforum ? (11:27:30 AM) liw: heno, they're not yet ready for public use, so not yet, but next week (11:27:35 AM) stgraber: I would suggest that we start spreading the announcement tomorrow from 13:00 UTC (11:27:38 AM) heno: stgraber: yes, I'll contact the forum and fridge people to get it posted centrally (11:27:50 AM) heno: stgraber: sounds good (11:28:23 AM) nand: re (11:28:24 AM) heno: liw: ok, please email the QA list (11:28:33 AM) ***heno waves to nand (11:28:42 AM) heno: any other topics? (11:29:04 AM) nand: heno: I saw you mentionned bugvote.qa.ubuntu.com on your announcment sheet. But it is not ready (11:29:31 AM) heno: nand: ah, ok. good catch, thanks (11:29:47 AM) heno: I'll take that out (11:29:51 AM) nand: ok (11:29:55 AM) bdmurray: I recently was reminded about 'apt-cache policy <PKGNAME>' and that seems a bit better than 'dpkg -l ...'. Thoughts? (11:31:14 AM) bdmurray: For the guided bug filing. ;) (11:31:28 AM) pedro_: bdmurray: totally better than dpkg -l (11:31:42 AM) bdmurray: I like how it shows the repo they are using too (11:31:53 AM) pedro_: sometimes with dpkg -l the version number get corrupted (11:31:59 AM) pedro_: yes yes (11:32:07 AM) heno: I just looked -- if you guys say so :) (11:33:04 AM) Iulian: apt-cache policy won't give you the description of the package but I think it is not so useful (11:33:53 AM) heno: should not be needed by the package maintainer who fixes the bug in the end ;) (11:34:18 AM) Iulian: Indeed (11:34:18 AM) heno: bdmurray: right, so let's use that (11:34:58 AM) heno: has anyone noticed any impact of the bug filing instructions on new bugs (11:35:02 AM) heno: ? (11:35:13 AM) heno: difficult to measure of course (11:35:21 AM) bdmurray: I think my initial sample is a little off (11:35:29 AM) bdmurray: but I wrote up some notes somewhere (11:35:53 AM) bdmurray: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/BugSampling (11:35:54 AM) heno: excellent, I'd like to read those (11:36:02 AM) heno: thx (11:37:13 AM) bdmurray: I want to redo to it with a better initial sample and also look at the change 'apt-cache policy' has (11:37:14 AM) heno: It would be interesting to see a time spread of the '700 with the header "sourcepackage=None"' (11:37:52 AM) heno: of course older bugs will have moved out of new so a naive analysis will be way off (11:38:35 AM) bdmurray: I started off with bugs with "NEW" in the subject so those are the 1st e-mails. Somebody would have to be very quick to get it moved to a package (11:39:12 AM) heno: ah, the data is 'old' also, excellent (11:39:36 AM) bdmurray: Additionally, we implemented the guided instructions on the 24th of January so this is after they were in effect (11:39:44 AM) heno: so a time spread of no-pkg/total would be very useful (11:40:17 AM) heno: just plotting those in daily or weekly bins (11:42:21 AM) heno: if there is nothing else, let's wrap up (11:42:35 AM) heno: - ? - (11:42:48 AM) heno: 3 (11:42:52 AM) bdmurray: regarding malone bugs tagged ubuntu-qa (11:42:54 AM) liw: I'm fine (11:43:07 AM) heno: ah :) (11:43:25 AM) bdmurray: mpt is / was under the impression that they are bugs that are blocking our work - are we in agreement about that? (11:43:48 AM) heno: I've notified bjorn about them (11:44:08 AM) bdmurray: I just wanted clarification as to when we should use the tag (11:44:15 AM) bdmurray: or consensus (11:44:20 AM) heno: blocking us from doing it as efficiently as we could otherwise (11:44:30 AM) heno: oh, i see (11:44:54 AM) heno: perhaps better keep pet annoyances off the list (11:45:07 AM) bdmurray: I might tagged some I just wanted to watch and share with the team (11:45:11 AM) heno: but include things you feel slow you down (11:45:38 AM) bdmurray: Okay, would e-mailing the QA list about "interesting" ones be best? (11:46:27 AM) heno: bdmurray: to get others to weigh in on whether it should be tagged? (11:46:44 AM) heno: when in doubt that sounds good (11:47:01 AM) heno: ie. when it's not obvious (11:47:21 AM) bdmurray: as an example is bug 165283 blocking our work - stgraber? (11:47:22 AM) ubotu: Launchpad bug 165283 in malone "The +txt listing for a bug is missing mentoring information" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165283 (11:47:28 AM) heno: should we review this list within the QA team regularly as well? (11:49:09 AM) bdmurray: Maybe do an initial review via e-mail, only brining up contentious ones, and then talk about new ones in the meeting? (11:49:22 AM) bdmurray: contentious or interesting (11:50:44 AM) heno: there are 28 ATM (11:51:09 AM) heno: 7 have no priority (11:51:37 AM) bdmurray: that's their responsibility though right? (11:51:53 AM) heno: which could mean they are not very serious, or that the LP team is not taking them seriously enough (11:52:26 AM) heno: but if those are really blocking us we should lobby to have them raise the priority (11:52:29 AM) bdmurray: well one of them was just submitted yesterday (11:53:18 AM) heno: "nomination listings on a bug page are odd" likely isn't a blocker (11:53:33 AM) bdmurray: yeah, I was just looking at that and will remove it (11:53:54 AM) heno: ok, so let's do a review on the qa list first (11:54:15 AM) heno: bdmurray: do you want to post a strawman list? (11:54:15 AM) liw: (time's running out) (11:54:33 AM) bdmurray: heno: sure (11:54:54 AM) _czessi is now known as Czessi (11:54:54 AM) heno: bdmurray: these are clear; these are less clear (11:55:04 AM) heno: bdmurray: thanks! (11:55:10 AM) heno: ok we are agreed (11:55:14 AM) heno: and done (11:55:21 AM) heno: #endmeeting (11:55:22 AM) MootBot: Meeting finished at 16:55. (11:55:33 AM) heno: thanks everyone!