== Log ==
TZ UTC -5
{{{
(02:03:11 PM) heno: ok, let's start
(02:03:18 PM) heno: #startmeeting
(02:03:19 PM) MootBot: Meeting started at 19:03. The chair is heno.
(02:03:19 PM) MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
(02:03:33 PM) heno: agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
(02:04:26 PM) heno: First, welcome all :)
(02:04:39 PM) heno: [TOPIC] Kernel bug migration update (bug day tomorrow)
(02:04:39 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Kernel bug migration update (bug day tomorrow)
(02:04:42 PM) davmor2: lo
(02:05:11 PM) ogasawara: I've been going through the High/Critical bugs for the older kernels
(02:05:18 PM) heno: I put that on the agenda so ogasawara would have a target for the high/critical migration
(02:05:22 PM) heno: :)
(02:05:33 PM) heno: how is it going?
(02:05:41 PM) ogasawara: I've got maybe 50 or so left to look at so I imagine I'll have it all wrapped up by end of the week
(02:05:55 PM) heno: cool!
(02:06:13 PM) heno: I see the plan is prepared for tomorrow
(02:06:43 PM) ogasawara: yup, so we should get extra help from the hug day tomorrow too
(02:07:01 PM) heno: ogasawara: anything else on that topic?
(02:07:14 PM) ogasawara: heno:  nope, I think we're good
(02:07:18 PM) heno: [TOPIC] Past week's bug day summary: g-s-t and HAL
(02:07:19 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Past week's bug day summary: g-s-t and HAL
(02:07:48 PM) heno: the g-s-t bug day ran out of bugs it looks like :)
(02:08:34 PM) heno: and I guess pitti has been running a 1-man HAL bug day today
(02:08:37 PM) slangase` is now known as slangasek
(02:10:24 PM) heno: ok, next
(02:10:34 PM) heno: [TOPIC] Desktop testing KVM images - instructions for download and use - liw
(02:10:35 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Desktop testing KVM images - instructions for download and use - liw
(02:11:12 PM) liw: I've made some packages of the automated desktop testing stuff, and a KVM/qemu image that can be used to run them
(02:11:26 PM) liw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/KVM and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/Desktop have some further details
(02:11:40 PM) liw: I'd be grateful if a couple of people could check that those things work for them
(02:12:12 PM) liw: there's only one set of tests right now, but now that all the packaging infrastructure is there, I can easily add more, and will be doing that in the near future
(02:12:15 PM) stgraber: I'm downloading at the moment
(02:12:31 PM) nand: liw: I'll test this WE
(02:12:40 PM) heno: liw: the pages look very good, thanks
(02:12:58 PM) ***heno downloads as well
(02:13:28 PM) stgraber: people.u.c seems overloaded :) downloading at only 300k/s
(02:13:32 PM) heno: liw: how shall we report feedback? email, or will you set up bugtracking on LP?
(02:13:38 PM) davmor2: I'll have a look latter when all the images have re-downloaded again :)
(02:13:45 PM) liw: feedback to me via e-mail to start with
(02:13:56 PM) heno: ok
(02:14:14 PM) liw: lars@ubuntu.com that is
(02:14:36 PM) heno: [TOPIC] Alpha 6 ISO testing
(02:14:36 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Alpha 6 ISO testing
(02:15:12 PM) heno: davmor2, stgraber: anything scary so far?
(02:15:19 PM) stgraber: I haven't started testing yet
(02:15:23 PM) stgraber: we had a broken OOo
(02:15:30 PM) heno: yeah
(02:15:43 PM) stgraber: I have updated the tracker with a fixed download info box
(02:15:45 PM) heno: kde4 seems to work, which is cool
(02:15:47 PM) stgraber: and updated the testcases
(02:16:00 PM) stgraber: adding Kubuntu-KDE4, Wubi and modifying Edubuntu
(02:16:12 PM) heno: some of the testcases will need some updating too
(02:16:15 PM) davmor2: OO.o screwed up testing having to re-download now.  On the whole Kubuntu has been okay couple of minor things but that's it
(02:16:19 PM) bdmurray: did the wubi test cases get written?
(02:16:29 PM) heno: bdmurray: sort of
(02:16:33 PM) stgraber: bdmurray: yes by heno and xivulon
(02:16:41 PM) heno: there is room for improvement ...
(02:16:58 PM) stgraber: xivulon updated it a bit this morning IIRC
(02:17:11 PM) heno: davmor2 and i will look more at test cases on Saturday I guess
(02:17:27 PM) heno: (at the Oxford testing mini sprint)
(02:17:29 PM) davmor2: Indeed :)
(02:18:12 PM) bdmurray: One thing I was thinking about was the importance of capturing the right files when people are testing
(02:18:15 PM) heno: ooh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/Wubi actually looks decent now!
(02:18:30 PM) heno: yay xivulon!
(02:18:59 PM) bdmurray: I mean getting the complete information right away
(02:20:04 PM) heno: bdmurray: a script that just vacuums up a bunch of could-be-useful log files perhaps?
(02:20:45 PM) heno: with dedicated test installs I don't think we have to worry too much about privacy
(02:20:53 PM) \sh_away is now known as \sh
(02:20:56 PM) emonkey-t is now known as emonkey
(02:21:17 PM) bdmurray: heno: maybe, I don't have an answer was just thinking about.  do we have documentation about how to get files off a live cd?
(02:21:28 PM) heno: so we could put 'wget script; script' on a wiki page and ask people to use that
(02:21:55 PM) heno: just for ubiquity AFAIK
(02:22:24 PM) heno: you mean in case of missing network and so on?
(02:22:26 PM) stgraber: we can use pastebin and my pastebinit package if the files aren't too long (as pastebins are usually limited)
(02:23:00 PM) heno: or tgz and attach it to a wiki page
(02:23:00 PM) bdmurray: heno: right, the process of getting the files off.  its easy if you are at the desktop but the other ways might not be well documented
(02:23:27 PM) heno: indeed, I don't think they are
(02:23:45 PM) heno: lots of info in individual bug comments
(02:24:12 PM) heno: getting files from busybox, photographing the screen, etc
(02:24:51 PM) bdmurray: right, that's what I was thinking of
(02:25:55 PM) heno: ok, let's add some info here as we think of different techniques https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CollectingLogs
(02:26:40 PM) heno: so ISO testing for a6 continues ...
(02:26:48 PM) heno: [TOPIC] Brainstorm status - fixing bugs, writing use documentation, seeking dev and moderator participation
(02:26:48 PM) MootBot: New Topic:  Brainstorm status - fixing bugs, writing use documentation, seeking dev and moderator participation
(02:27:13 PM) nand: well, for now I'm pleased with the website
(02:27:15 PM) heno: The launch seems to have gone extremely well!
(02:27:22 PM) nand: good idea turnout
(02:27:37 PM) stgraber: 3389 ideas and 11234 users !!!
(02:27:38 PM) nand: the new front page ordering seems very efficient
(02:27:47 PM) heno: we also have 10-12 moderators signed up and some developers
(02:28:21 PM) nand: Now the next target is the handling of duplicates
(02:28:29 PM) nand: especially preventing them
(02:28:41 PM) heno: stgraber: any idea on how many active ideas? (non-deleted, non-dupes)
(02:28:44 PM) nand: with a ajax system like ubuntuforums.org && LP
(02:28:58 PM) nand: Yep, I should also add a stat page soon :)
(02:29:09 PM) heno: nand: that strikes me as a big task
(02:29:20 PM) nand: heno: Noo, I can do it in one day
(02:29:33 PM) stgraber: heno: I have a fresh DB dump here so I probably can tell you that with a bit of SQL
(02:29:44 PM) nand: The architecture behind QAPoll is pretty clean :)
(02:29:48 PM) heno: great
(02:30:04 PM) heno: also, please help improve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brainstorm
(02:30:15 PM) bapoumba: may I have a question about duplicates handeling ?
(02:30:17 PM) heno: it's now linked from the front page
(02:30:21 PM) nand: bapoumba: yes?
(02:30:38 PM) bapoumba: how to deal with duplicates of duplicates ?
(02:30:44 PM) nand: heno: I've seen, yes, nice howto!
(02:31:22 PM) nand: bapoumba: the main idea cumulates the votes of all its duplicate. And by cumulate, I mean smartly cumulate
(02:31:40 PM) bapoumba: say A is reported as dup of B which is already a dup of C
(02:31:42 PM) nand: i.e. if one user vote +1 for two dups, only one +1 will be counted
(02:32:36 PM) nand: bapoumba: I'll add soon a list of all the duplicate at any level (dup, dup of dupe) on the idea page
(02:32:52 PM) bapoumba: okay :)
(02:32:57 PM) heno: I think the dup system should not block on bug or spec links
(02:33:13 PM) heno: they should be carried forward also when duping
(02:33:14 PM) nand: A problem I have noticed:
(02:33:23 PM) heno: we are losing some links ATM
(02:33:23 PM) nand: it's no so easy
(02:33:36 PM) nand: because often bad bugreport or bad spec are linked
(02:33:41 PM) nand: old, non revelant
(02:33:50 PM) nand: and thus it influences baldy on the status
(02:34:02 PM) stgraber: nand: What's the 'status' for deleted ideas ?
(02:34:06 PM) heno: yes, this may need a documentation-solution
(02:34:06 PM) nand: E.g. an idea is marked as "worked in progress" whereas it is not
(02:34:19 PM) nand: stgraber: the SQL number?
(02:34:22 PM) stgraber: nand: yep
(02:34:26 PM) nand: check qapoll.install, it's documented
(02:34:31 PM) nand: -2 IIRC
(02:34:33 PM) heno: ie. the moderators need to move some links around
(02:35:05 PM) nand: Personaly I often check and update the attachments, and this should be asked to the moderators too
(02:35:11 PM) stgraber: qawebsite=> SELECT count(id) FROM qapoll_choice WHERE duplicatenumber='-1' AND status!='-2';
(02:35:14 PM) stgraber:  count
(02:35:16 PM) stgraber: -------
(02:35:17 PM) stgraber: heno: ^
(02:35:20 PM) stgraber:   2245
(02:35:22 PM) stgraber: (1 row)
(02:35:40 PM) nand: sot that's the number of non-deleted and non-dup ideas
(02:35:49 PM) nand: stgraber: the nb of dup please?
(02:36:02 PM) stgraber: 578
(02:36:13 PM) stgraber: 326 deleted
(02:36:17 PM) heno: that seems like roughly sensible numbers
(02:36:32 PM) nand: oh, well pleased with the nb of dups
(02:36:35 PM) heno: most of that was Jose's spam
(02:37:04 PM) heno: any other topics?
(02:37:42 PM) bdmurray: I've made some progress with markus's help on yesterday's bugs
(02:37:53 PM) bdmurray: http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/yesterday/
(02:37:54 PM) MootBot: LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/yesterday/
(02:39:01 PM) bdmurray: The report shows all the new bugs reported yesterday
(02:39:13 PM) bdmurray: My thought was we'd try to drive it to 0
(02:39:37 PM) bdmurray: I've added the sourcepackge like we discussed earlier and it is phenomenally faster
(02:40:05 PM) heno: sounds very good
(02:40:27 PM) heno: it would be cool to have a graph of the number over time
(02:40:48 PM) heno: yesterdays bugs three days ago, etc :)
(02:40:55 PM) bdmurray: heno: with the number "resetting" every day?
(02:41:12 PM) heno: btw, 130085 is likely now from yesterday
(02:41:42 PM) heno: bdmurray: how exactly do you define yesterday?
(02:41:59 PM) heno: just the previous date from when the script runs?
(02:42:06 PM) bdmurray: yes
(02:42:14 PM) heno: ok
(02:42:37 PM) bdmurray: so at 00:00 UTC it'll be 0 I think
(02:43:01 PM) heno: ok, how often does it update?
(02:43:17 PM) heno: it should run at 23.50 then really
(02:43:30 PM) bdmurray: er, that's not true it'll be whatever the total reported on the 5th was
(02:43:38 PM) bdmurray: it runs every 10 minutes at the moment
(02:43:48 PM) heno: assuming it runs once a day - ah, ok
(02:44:16 PM) heno: so you want to drive it to 0 in real time each day?
(02:44:16 PM) bdmurray: so if we go triage some of those the report will be shorter in ~10 minutes
(02:44:23 PM) bdmurray: right
(02:44:28 PM) heno: I get it now, cool
(02:44:55 PM) heno: sounds like a powerful tool
(02:45:15 PM) heno: can we do a bug day with it to introduce it to people?
(02:45:31 PM) heno: seems suitable for 5-a-day also
(02:46:50 PM) heno: bdmurray: ^ bug day?
(02:47:05 PM) bdmurray: bug day: probably - one concern I have is covering such a wide variety of packages though.  I feel the same way about apport-bug tagged bugs, but we could try it and see what happens
(02:47:26 PM) stgraber: liw: is your screen 1600x1200 ? :)
(02:47:39 PM) bdmurray: 5-a-day: right, just another entry point for finding "fresh" bugs
(02:47:57 PM) heno: and Finnish tz :)
(02:47:59 PM) liw: stgraber, 1680x1050 actually... the kvm image uses a too-big screen?
(02:48:12 PM) liw: heno, and Finnish keyboard, too, actually
(02:48:15 PM) liw: not sure how to solve that one
(02:48:47 PM) stgraber: liw: well, I have a 1680x1050 screen too but qemu started with 1600x1200 for usplash
(02:48:55 PM) heno: I'll send you a UK keyboard :)
(02:48:59 PM) liw: stgraber, yeah, it does that
(02:49:07 PM) liw: stgraber, I've no idea why
(02:49:44 PM) heno: we can take this to #ubuntu-testing
(02:49:52 PM) heno: I think we are done
(02:49:56 PM) heno: 3
(02:49:59 PM) nand: oh my.. And i have 1024x768...
(02:50:05 PM) heno: 2
(02:50:13 PM) heno: 1
(02:50:16 PM) nand: boom!
(02:50:19 PM) heno: #endmeeting
(02:50:20 PM) MootBot: Meeting finished at 19:50.
(02:50:31 PM) heno: thanks everyone!
(02:50:56 PM) heno: oh, anyone care to do a summary? :-D
(02:51:17 PM) heno: I still suck at that :(
(02:52:52 PM) heno: nope, ok. I'll take it
}}}