== Log ==
UTC
{{{
18:04	MootBot	Meeting started at 12:05. The chair is heno.
18:04	MootBot	Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
18:04	heno	[TOPIC]: Alpha 2 testing this week
18:04	MootBot	New Topic: : Alpha 2 testing this week
18:04	heno	being an early alpha testing will be light
18:05	heno	sbeattie: do you know how far along the images are?
18:05	davmor2	heno: beings as live still doesn't work I think your right :)
18:05	heno	slangasek: ^ ?
* stgraber is sort of around
18:05	slangasek	desktop images are still on the edge of being usable for alpha2; there's nothing there to be tested yet
18:05	heno	ok, thanks
18:06	slangasek	cjwatson is actively working on the ubiquity problems, and we also have to cope with the fact that recommends-by-default has made the ubuntu desktop image 80MB oversized - and kubuntu 200MB oversized :)
18:06	heno	heh
18:06	sbeattie	ouch
18:06	davmor2	heno: it's true :)
18:06	ogra	people should use DVDRW for testing anyway :)
18:06	ogra	saver the environment ...
18:06	ogra	*save
18:07	heno	or usb thumb drives
18:07	ogra	yeh
18:07	ogra	+a
18:08	heno	so we'll test alternatives and desktops if they become available
18:08	heno	[TOPIC]: Package status prototype - feedback welcome
18:08	MootBot	New Topic: : Package status prototype - feedback welcome
18:08	davmor2	heno: is this for release next thursday then?
18:08	heno	http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html
18:08	MootBot	LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html
18:09	heno	davmor2: this thursday I think
18:09	davmor2	might run out of testing time then :/
18:09	davmor2	:-/
18:10	heno	davmor2: right, but we should just boot test them all
18:10	heno	and if there are no live CDs that makes it easier
18:10	davmor2	I tried a live today it failed dismally
18:11	ara	but are the images already available?
18:11	afflux	hi! is it just me or do the alpha 2 images miss on the iso testing tracker? (are they even supposed to appear there?)
18:11	heno	I'm guessing we'll release alpha 2 without lives
18:12	afflux	(sorry if you discussed that earlier, I missed the start)
18:12	heno	the alternates should be posted
18:12	heno	slangasek: ^ agree?
18:12	slangasek	I think so, yes
18:13	davmor2	the charts look great by the way.  Will they be automated?
18:13	sbeattie	I see live cds on cdimages, I suspect they just don't work.
18:13	heno	sbeattie: can you update the tracker after the meeting?
18:13	heno	sbeattie: let me know if you need a hand
18:13	sbeattie	heno: yes, will do, can you action it?
18:13	slangasek	fwiw, nvidia-glx-new is uninstallable on the alternates because of the X changes, so that's a bug to highlight for testers I think
18:13	LaserJock	Leann's, pkg-stats pages are awesome!
18:14	heno	[ACTION]: sbeattie to update iso tracker for alpha 2
18:14	MootBot	ACTION received: : sbeattie to update iso tracker for alpha 2
18:14	LaserJock	ogasawara: great work!
18:14	heno	indeed!
18:14	davmor2	slangasek: noted
18:14	heno	everyone check http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.html
18:15	LaserJock	the one thing that struck me though
18:15	heno	bdmurray made the graphs
18:15	LaserJock	was that it is just bug "stuff"
18:15	LaserJock	wereas I'm sure developers/bug workers would probably like to see some information on the package itself
18:15	afflux	yup, looks cool. (though I thought we already had that kind of statistics, but I can't remember where...)
18:16	bdmurray	afflux: they aren't as detailed as this
18:16	heno	LaserJock: right, we'd love to get suggestions for that
18:16	afflux	I see
18:17	LaserJock	heno: at least links to Ubuntu/Debian changelogs, Ubuntu/Debian versions, links to package LP page and Debian PTS/BTS pages
18:17	heno	Development and Testing: should be a section separate from Bugs Info and have more items
18:18	heno	let's create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/PackageStatusPages/Feedback and add such items there
18:18	ogasawara	that'd be great.  I'll try to knock out as many items as I can before the sprint next week
18:19	heno	how much of that overlaps with the LP package pages though?
18:19	LaserJock	heno: very little
18:19	heno	cool, we would like to add features not already on LP
18:19	LaserJock	some of the info you can get from the LP page, but you have to dig around
18:19	heno	and possibly later get them implemented there
18:19	davmor2	heno: if the is an overlap you could just link to the lp page for the package
18:19	LaserJock	but for sure LP doesn't have any of the Debian info
18:20	heno	ok
18:20	sbeattie	Isn't some of this also aggregation of multiple packages in LP? e.g. "gnome" and "kde" will cover quite a few, no?
18:20	heno	yeah, this page should very much be tailored fot the audience: Ubuntu QA and dev
18:21	heno	ogasawara: will you start that page and collect the ideas?
18:21	ogasawara	heno:  yup
18:21	sbeattie	do we want breakdowns by release?
18:21	LaserJock	sbeattie: yeah, both types of pages would be useful
18:21	heno	LaserJock: can you look over hat afterwards and add you thoughts?
18:21	LaserJock	heno: sure
18:22	heno	sbeattie: I'd like to have the option of historical look-back later too
18:22	heno	see the weekly graphs from 6 months ago, say
18:22	heno	sbeattie: are you thinking more of Hardy vs. Intrepid?
18:23	heno	so we can follow the LTS point releases, say?
18:23	sbeattie	yes, that too. historical comparisons are useful as well.
18:24	LaserJock	well, it would be nice to see if a particular releast/version is really getting a lot of bugs
18:25	heno	if anyone has further feedback please add it to the wiki
18:25	heno	[TOPIC]: Next week's meeting - suggestion: an in person meeting at the London sprint combined phone or skype for those who are not there at 14.00 UTC
18:25	MootBot	New Topic: : Next week's meeting - suggestion: an in person meeting at the London sprint combined phone or skype for those who are not there at 14.00 UTC
18:26	davmor2	+1
18:27	LaserJock	14.00 UTC might allow some AU people to attend
18:27	heno	we'll have both a skype box with decent sound and a conference phone in the room
18:27	heno	LaserJock: will that be difficult for you?
* stgraber is afk now
18:27	heno	you are US west coast, right?
18:28	LaserJock	not impossible for sure
18:28	cgregan	heno: I have the skype system all set here, and there is a teleconference install going on in the main conf room here as well
18:28	LaserJock	I think that's 7am local
18:28	heno	cgregan: excellent!
18:28	heno	how many people can be joined on a skype conference?
18:29	sbeattie	LaserJock: would 1400 UTC also let Persia attend?
18:29	heno	if we use that we don't need to distribute phone umbers and conf codes
18:29	LaserJock	sbeattie: perhaps so
18:29	heno	persia will be in Lexington
18:29	LaserJock	I can't say for sure
18:29	LaserJock	ah
18:30	heno	I assume
18:30	sbeattie	heno: just realized that.
18:30	cgregan	heno: I don't know. Our test yesterday was my first skype experience
18:30	heno	as will cgregan and ogasawara
18:30	heno	I'm sure google will tell us
18:30	davmor2	cgregan: noob ;)
18:31	afflux	why not use mumble, it is opensource :P
18:31	heno	looks like 5
* cgregan adds a dollar to his "shrine to the internet"
18:31	davmor2	use ekiga it on the desktop already :)
18:31	heno	or openwengo?
18:31	cgregan	davmor2: :-)
18:31	afflux	IIRC skype has some limitation about 5-8 people in one conference call
18:31	heno	I had issues with ekiga
* afflux too
18:32	heno	but perhaps that was just me
18:33	cgregan	davmor2 and I have used audio only with success
* persia peers out from an insomaniacal state and wonders which 14:00
18:34	afflux	ekiga crashes on account setup for me :(
18:34	davmor2	:) It was quite a good connection too :)
18:34	heno	persia: UTC during the sprint week
18:34	heno	cgregan: can we go through testing that between us?
18:35	cgregan	heno: sure
18:35	heno	if it works we'll use ekiga, if not phone
18:35	persia	Wednesday?
18:35	heno	persia: yes
18:36	davmor2	heno: so that 15:00 uk time
18:36	persia	Ah.  I've a standing meeting that day and time, and an additional conflict next week from 13:00 - 18:00 or so.
18:36	heno	davmor2: right
18:36	davmor2	okay
18:37	heno	persia: that time block will be tough to work around for us
18:37	persia	heno: No worries.  I'll read the minutes.
18:37	heno	but we'll be available the whole week by phone/skype
18:38	heno	ok, let's go with that time then
18:38	heno	we'll monitor IRC as well
18:38	heno	[TOPIC]: Ubuntu QA team update/proposal (LaserJock)
18:38	MootBot	New Topic: : Ubuntu QA team update/proposal (LaserJock)
18:38	LaserJock	ok, so a few things
18:39	LaserJock	I wrote up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/UbuntuQA
18:39	LaserJock	which is hopefully a more thorough presentation of what I'm doing
18:39	heno	cool, thanks
18:39	davmor2	I got to go now I'll catch up after
18:39	LaserJock	and so far the team has 7 members (https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa/+members)
18:40	LaserJock	and 4 bzr branches represting 4 different projects
18:40	LaserJock	I've been talking with lots of people
18:41	LaserJock	and trying to look at some QA needs around the community
18:42	LaserJock	so I think we're off to a good start
18:42	LaserJock	are there any questions about the wiki page?
18:42	bdmurray	what is a "relevant QA team"?
18:43	LaserJock	bugsquad, ubuntu-testing, ubuntu-dev, etc.
18:45	LaserJock	so I'd like to start pushing people towards the mailing list and doing some announcement/PR soon
18:46	heno	hm, i have to reboot, brb
18:46	sbeattie	LaserJock: nice, I think I'm mostly sold.
18:47	LaserJock	I'm sure there could be some refining around specifics, but hopefully it's good enough to get going
18:47	sbeattie	I would like to push a little bit on how we credit/reward people doing various elements of QA work.
18:47	heno	... sorry about that
18:47	LaserJock	heno: np
18:47	LaserJock	sbeattie: yeah, that's something I think we'll have to work on some
18:48	LaserJock	I don't have any particularlly elegant propsals for that other than recognizing work that people are doing
18:48	sbeattie	I don't particularly have any good ideas (other than I want to be a level 10 QA Warlock)
18:48	LaserJock	having a team that's seeing what's going on around the QA universe, IMO, lends itself more to giving each other credit
18:49	LaserJock	for instance, ogasawara's work on that bug page is amazing
18:49	LaserJock	and I might not have noticed that if I hadn't been talking with her already and comming to the meeting, etc.
18:51	sbeattie	Sure, I think it's great, too, but generating webpages like is more interesting work than some of the grunt work the various QA teams do.
18:51	bryce	it might be interesting to ask existing volunteer triagers about what motivates them, and then seek ways to maximize that (or minimize inhibitors)
18:52	sbeattie	bryce: good idea
18:52	LaserJock	bryce: yeah, totally
18:52	heno	the people who have recently stepped up to organise bug days would be good candidates here
18:53	LaserJock	yes
18:53	heno	LaserJock: i appreciate that you have fleshed out the non-dev aspects a bit more
18:53	heno	and we can probably extend that further still
18:53	LaserJock	heno: yeah, I'm sorry that that came out too much last time. I'm come from a dev background and I'm afraid it showed
18:54	LaserJock	heno: yeah
18:54	heno	LaserJock: how do you see this team participating in the upcoming global bug jam for example
18:55	LaserJock	heno: well, hopefully that would be something that the Ubuntu QA would help organize and participate in
18:55	heno	that has a triage focus, but we can also benefit from dev involvement
18:55	cgregan	heno: LoCo maryland has asked me to do a talk on QA process for the Jam.
18:56	LaserJock	perhaps generating useful documentation and task-lists if needed
18:56	cgregan	We could do something like that but in the wiki or elsewhere...for a larger audience
18:57	heno	LaserJock: where would you like feedback on that writeup, in a comments section on the page, on an ML thread?
18:57	LaserJock	perhaps a thread on ubuntu-qa would be good, to get broader discussion
18:57	heno	ok, will you post and we can comment?
18:58	heno	and we'll talk about it at next week's meeting
18:58	LaserJock	ok
18:58	LaserJock	so I'm basically going to move forward with this this week
18:58	heno	perhaps we should propose some topics for that btw
18:58	LaserJock	and we can refine as we go
18:59	LaserJock	but I think we have consensus that we should move forward
18:59	heno	LaserJock: 'move forward' means announce more broadly, invite people to join, etc?
18:59	LaserJock	yes
19:00	LaserJock	I think the only real possible sticking point is the LP team name, and I'm confident that I/we can handle that
19:00	heno	there was actually an ubuntu-qa name before
19:00	heno	which was in effect bug-control
19:01	heno	and we changed the name to reduce confusion
19:01	LaserJock	yep
19:01	heno	but what we are talking about now fits the name better
19:01	LaserJock	I agree
19:02	heno	with the more inclusive view, I'm happy with the LP name
19:02	LaserJock	I'm up for trolling around the wiki and making appropriate changes
19:02	LaserJock	for non-trivial ones I'd email ubuntu-qa for discussion to make sure
19:02	heno	we should merge the LP team with the existing wiki/IRC/ML based team though
19:03	LaserJock	I basically agree
19:03	ara	heno: which irc channel?
19:03	heno	so we should stick to this meeting time, use the ML
19:03	LaserJock	I'm working on the IRC channel right now
19:03	ara	is there already a #ubuntu-qa ??
19:03	heno	and probably set up #ubuntu-qa
19:03	ara	LaserJock: ok
19:03	LaserJock	apparently #ubuntu-qa is for the Qatar LoCo team
19:04	LaserJock	the IRC ops suggested #ubuntu-quality for lack of a better name
19:04	heno	nand: I'm also wondering if it's time to set up #ubuntu-brainstorm ?
19:04	LaserJock	any other suggestions?
19:04	sbeattie	LaserJock: we all have to move to Qatar?
19:04	LaserJock	sbeattie: hehe, yeah
19:04	ara	:D
19:05	LaserJock	and apparently anything #ubuntu-qa-* is owned by them as well
19:05	LaserJock	so we can't do #ubuntu-qa-team or such
19:05	heno	as it doesn't fit very well in #ubuntu-testing anymore
19:06	heno	-quality sounds fine
19:06	LaserJock	it's not quite a clear, IMO, but I think it's probably the best we can do
19:07	LaserJock	I guess we could always ask Qatar to rename itself :-)
19:07	bdmurray	qc?
19:07	heno	I wonder how active that chan is?
19:07	LaserJock	heno: it's not at all
19:08	LaserJock	there wasn't anybody in there when I went in
19:08	ara	bdmurray: i prefer -quality than -qc
19:08	LaserJock	I think the meaning of QA is more generally known than QC
19:08	LaserJock	I'm not sure that people would know what ubuntu-qc was
19:09	ara	LaserJock: i agree
19:09	cgregan	Is there a standard for "distro-group" or could it be qa-ubuntu? qa-canonical?
19:09	LaserJock	cgregan: well, I think generally they need to be *buntu-*
19:09	LaserJock	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/ChannelNaming
19:10	heno	is there even a Qatar team? The ubuntu-qa ML is us
19:10	ara	"What's in a name? That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet."
19:10	LaserJock	heno: it apparently doesn't matter if the team exists or is active. It's a blocked namespace
19:11	bdmurray	-qat? where t is for team?
19:11	sbeattie	cgregan: I particularly think we don't want *canonical*, as we want to make sure that it's clear that the intent is for this effort to not be exclusive to canonical employees.
19:11	LaserJock	I think #ubuntu-quality is probably our best bet
19:11	bdmurray	That's also a great scrabble word
19:11	cgregan	sbeattie: I know...just an example of layout not of content
19:11	heno	Ubuntu Qatar could just be very interested in quality and happen to not live in Qatar
19:12	LaserJock	lol
19:12	heno	let's go with #ubuntu-quality but set the topic in #ubuntu-qa to make accidental visitors aware of that
19:13	heno	if a Qatar team turns up and becomes active they can change the topic to something more appropriate
19:14	LaserJock	agreed
19:14	LaserJock	I'll set it up
19:14	ara	ok
19:14	heno	any other topics?
19:16	heno	ok, let's wrap up
19:16	heno	#endmeeting
19:16	MootBot	Meeting finished at 13:17.}}}