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[18:01] <heno> #startmeeting
[18:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
[18:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:02] <davmor2> Yay The bot is back :)
[18:02] <heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[18:03] <intellectronica> gee, good thing i started showing up for this meetings. otherwise you wouldn't have what to talk about :P
[18:03] <heno> heh
[18:03] <heno> [TOPIC] Bug searching API is now available on edge for your testing pleasure (intellectronica).
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug searching API is now available on edge for your testing pleasure (intellectronica).
[18:03] <intellectronica> tadaaam
[18:04] <intellectronica> so, finally, searching for bugs using the API is available on edge
[18:04] <ara> intellectronica: cool :-)
[18:04] <bdmurray> yeah!
[18:04] <intellectronica> this is a fairly complex function, so lots of testing is necessary
[18:04]  * heno (adds an item to the agenda as well)
[18:04] <intellectronica> so, hit it as hard as you can, and let me know when it breaks
[18:05] <bdmurray> heh, that sounds like a challenge
[18:05] <sbeattie> intellectronica: where is the API documented?
[18:05] <ara> intellectronica: where's the API doc? (sorry if this is a trivial question)
[18:05] <intellectronica> sbeattie: it isn't really. you should be able to get the WSDL for it, and i'll try to write some documentation on the wiki
[18:05] <ara> or duplicated...
[18:05] <ara> :D
[18:06] <intellectronica> the method itself is searchTasks, and you can call it on the normal things that have bugs (like distros, projects, distro packages, etc'...)
[18:06] <heno> so just hammer the server with random strings to decipher the API ;)
[18:06] <pedro_> lol
[18:07] <intellectronica> ara: https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc
[18:08] <heno> ok, moving on
[18:08] <heno> [TOPIC] Sell the bugzilla or trac LP plugins to an upstream, get a beer (intellectronica)
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sell the bugzilla or trac LP plugins to an upstream, get a beer (intellectronica)
[18:09] <ara> which pub?
[18:09] <heno> jcastro: around?
[18:09] <intellectronica> just a reminder that we now have plugins for both trac and bugzilla, which allow syncing comments
[18:09] <intellectronica> if you know of any upstreams which use bugzilla or trac (and where you have some contact with the admins) why don't you ask them to install those plugins
[18:09] <pedro_> FYI: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-bugsquad/2008-August/msg00001.html
[18:10] <bdmurray> they require a specific version of bugzilla?
[18:10] <heno> Is there a sample bug or demo of this working in practice?
[18:10] <pedro_> that's a comment from Olav Vitters the gnome bugzilla admin
[18:10] <intellectronica> bdmurray: yes. > 3.0
[18:10] <pedro_> that's one of the issues there...
[18:11] <intellectronica> heno: as far as i know we've only had tests of this on staging, which is wiped periodically. i can definitely arrange that if necessary, and as of the next release we should have a few projects that use it and are visible on the production servers
[18:12] <jcastro> heno: yep!
[18:13] <jcastro> heno: Olav and I had discussions about this at guadec.
[18:13] <heno> jcastro: are there plans to approach other upstreams?
[18:13] <jcastro> heno: But they are not moving to bugzilla 3.x just yet, he mentioned that once they get a developer instance of it running that they would be interested in helping test.
[18:14] <jcastro> yes in the past we tried to do a closed run where I would invite upstreams to come test but that wasn't very successfull
[18:14] <jcastro> after that we just announced that anyone can be welcome to test.
[18:15] <heno> perhaps we should talk to the maintainers of bugzilla and trac themselves to get it shipped with their releases (if we haven't already)
[18:15] <jcastro> but unfortunately there wasn't much traction there
[18:15] <intellectronica> heno: that's a nice idea
[18:15] <jcastro> the GNOME bugzilla 3.x transition isn't coming up anytime soon so I was going to wait for them to get a test server up and then repropose.
[18:15] <heno> ogasawara: the kernel uses bugzilla, is that run by Natalie?
[18:16] <bdmurray> heno: its 2.2 something
[18:16] <jcastro> yeah, a large number of upstream bugzillas are 2.x
[18:17] <heno> I suspect they may not be interested in comments directly from our users either
[18:17] <ogasawara> heno:  what bdmurray said.  she maintains the bugs, but I don't think is responsible for the actual admining
[18:17] <pedro_> how many upstream projects out there are using bugzilla 3 ?
[18:17] <pedro_> i mean the large ones , firefox, freedesktop, etc?
[18:17] <heno> we have several times more open kernel bugs than kernel.org AFAIR
[18:18] <jcastro> fdo is bugzilla 3.x
[18:18] <bdmurray> I seem to recall a couple of kernel guys maintaing it
[18:18] <ogasawara> heno:  another thing to note is that a lot of kernel bugs are reported and deal with directly on the mailing lists
[18:18] <pedro_> yeah just saw it version 3.0.3
[18:19] <ogasawara> heno:  and until we have a vanilla kernel PPA in place, I suspect upstream won't want the extra noise
[18:20] <heno> IMO we should prepare a menu of options for ways/levels to collaborate with us on wrt bugs, that we can present to all upstreams
[18:20] <heno> bug day participation, bug tracker integration, bug contact, mothly summary report of bugs in their packages, etc
[18:21] <heno> instead of approaching them all N times with different requests
[18:23] <heno> [silence]
[18:23]  * davmor2 isn't that golden
[18:23] <sbeattie> ogasawara: isn't arjan willing to take ksymoops reports from us, or is that only for -vanilla kernels as well? Does he not maintain kernel bugzilla?
[18:23] <heno> jcastro, pedro_: can you guys make a list of options like that?
[18:24] <heno> a wiki page with the options explained and whot to contact to set it up
[18:24] <bdmurray> sbeattie: its hosted by the linux foundation
[18:24] <ogasawara> sbeattie: the kerneloops is sort of a separate project, but yes he is willing to take stats from our Ubuntu kernels
[18:25] <pedro_> heno: yup
[18:25] <heno> thanks!
[18:25] <heno> ok, let's move on
[18:26] <heno> [TOPIC] Release report for Friday
[18:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release report for Friday
[18:26] <heno> I won't be there (as I'm on holiday)
[18:26] <sbeattie> I'll be there.
[18:27] <heno> sbeattie, bdmurray: can you both look at getting that in shape?
[18:27] <heno> regressions and other hot bugs
[18:27] <ogasawara> sbeattie:  I'm sure one of the hot topics will be the e1000e driver issue
[18:27] <heno> indeed
[18:27] <bdmurray> heno: sure
[18:28] <heno> that's already on the release team's radar, and arguably something we should have flagged sooner in a report
[18:29] <sbeattie> heno: AFAIK, it was not onanyone's radar until this week.
[18:29] <heno> when in doubt about whether a serious bug you are aware of should go on that list, please consult other QA members for an opinion
[18:29] <sbeattie> what's the state of hardware testing?
[18:29] <heno> sbeattie: I and ogasawara knew about it
[18:29] <ogasawara> it was on the kernel team's radar and mine since it was reported
[18:30] <heno> so I'm looking at my own procedures for this sort of thing
[18:30] <sbeattie> heno: one point of contention is that it took us a bit to pull alpha6
[18:30] <heno> sbeattie: it would have been on your list had not the kernel team removed the regression tag :)
[18:31] <sbeattie> heh
[18:31] <ogasawara> yes, I think the urgency/seriousness for escalating fell short
[18:32] <davmor2> sbeattie: what?
[18:32] <heno> so, anyone else have any serious bugs in mind?
[18:32] <heno> (a question we should ask each meeting until release)
[18:32]  * davmor2 looks through bug reports
[18:34] <heno> please add issues to the release report list as they turn up
[18:34] <bdmurray> not I
[18:34] <davmor2> heno: Ndiswrapper no longer seems to work I've kicked and screamed at it but nothing. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ndiswrapper/+bug/268625
[18:34] <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 268625 in ndiswrapper "Intrepid: Regression Ndiswrapper is broken by b43 driver again" [Undecided,New]
[18:36] <heno> that bug has no status or importance yet
[18:36] <heno> does it need any debugging info?
[18:36] <davmor2> I've no idea and I don't know what info from where either
[18:37] <heno> we should try to get the bug reports from our own testers in better shape sooner
[18:37] <sbeattie> heno: I'm hoping the very recent modprobe speedup will address bug 258432 for me; otherwise I think it ought to get escalated.
[18:37] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 258432 in casper "Intrepid 4 live cd drops to busybox, needs more time to  find CD livefs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258432
[18:37] <heno> bdmurray: can you work with davmor2 to get his existing reports properly triaged?
[18:38] <davmor2> I got to go now I'll see about what info is needed and from where tomorrow
[18:38] <bdmurray> heno: sure
[18:38] <davmor2> bdmurray: Thanks
[18:39] <heno> sbeattie: I've raised it's importance - do you have bug-control powers?
[18:41] <heno> ah, I see you do
[18:41] <heno> sbeattie: feel free to set the importance on such bugs
[18:41] <sbeattie> sure, thanks.
[18:42] <bdmurray> Bugs can be new and have an importance as far as I'm concerned
[18:42] <heno> perhaps that should appear on the regression and SRU pages as well
[18:42] <heno> agree
[18:42] <sbeattie> heno: the importance, you mean? Yeah, I'd just been thinking of adding that.
[18:43] <heno> most SRU and regression bugs will be High or Critical I guess, but still
[18:43] <heno> any other business?
[18:43] <sbeattie> mmm, I've seen some low ones go through, IIRC, but get caught in rollups with other bugs.
[18:44] <bdmurray> sbeattie: have you checked with cjwatson about it?
[18:44] <bdmurray> your bug that is.
[18:44] <heno> sbeattie: and those are ones we should question I think, as any fix can cause a problem
[18:44] <sbeattie> bdmurray: not yet
[18:45] <heno> or at least not prioritise in SRU verification
[18:45] <sbeattie> heno: agreed on both counts. Need to add sorting by column to those webpages.
[18:46] <heno> yep. again, check with bryce on that
[18:46] <sbeattie> Re the move to testcases.qa.ubuntu.com, is https://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/Applications the right place to propose new apps for testing?
[18:46] <sbeattie> e.g. evince (gnome pdf viewer) probably ought to be on that list.
[18:47] <heno> yes, perhaps in a separate table though
[18:47] <heno> the current table should go away when the migration is complete
[18:47] <heno> ara, schwuk: how is that proceeding?
[18:48] <sbeattie> also, how do we wish to handle testcases that could apply to multiple apps?
[18:48] <ara> heno: which current talbe?
[18:48] <heno> sbeattie: an example?
[18:48] <sbeattie> e.g. sample pdfs for kpdf and evince
[18:48] <ara> s/talbe/table
[18:48] <heno> ara: the one listing pages to move from wiki.u.c
[18:49] <heno> we should have a SampleData page to attach those to
[18:50] <heno> the test cases are now quite short, and then collected in larger suites
[18:50] <heno> it would be nice to use the new wiki for beta testing
[18:50] <ara> heno: I am trying to explain better each test case
[18:51] <heno> ok. davmor2 is also working on this (but seems to have logged off ATM)
[18:52] <sbeattie> heno: I've been going through some of the verification-done bugs and pulling out samples where I could. I have some of them in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbeattie/+junk/qa-testcases/files
[18:53] <sbeattie> ... and was trying to figure out how to add them to the wiki, structurally.
[18:53] <cjwatson> sbeattie: I've opened bug 258432 and will look at it later, thanks
[18:53] <heno> sbeattie: please just start new pages for the applications
[18:53] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 258432 in casper "Intrepid 4 live cd drops to busybox, needs more time to  find CD livefs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258432
[18:53] <sbeattie> cjwatson: thanks
[18:53] <heno> we can rename pages later if need be
[18:54] <heno> sbeattie: add attachments to app test pages or in a SampleData page as appropriate
[18:54] <heno> let's wrap up
[18:54] <heno> anything else?
[18:55] <intellectronica> one thing
[18:55] <mathiaz> heno: I'd like to know how you're gonna handle beta testing of isos ?
[18:55] <intellectronica> please don't forget to add agenda items and your names to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/LaunchpadBugsUbuntuQAMeeting if you wish to participate
[18:55] <mathiaz> heno: are you planning to do smoke testing ?
[18:55] <mathiaz> heno: ie generate a first set of images later this week and test them as much as possible ?
[18:56] <heno> mathiaz: yes, we'll run manual and automated smoke tests daily running up to beta
[18:56] <mathiaz> heno: could you quickly re-explain what smoke test is ?
[18:57] <heno> basic install testing. The manual testing is tracked here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
[18:58] <heno> mathiaz: we are working on improving reporting of the automated testing and I'd appreciate your feedback on that
[18:58] <heno> schwuk: can you set up mathiaz with access to that?
[18:58] <mathiaz> heno: sure - I'm in touch with cr3 about this (once in a while though)
[18:59] <schwuk> heno: sure
[18:59] <mathiaz> heno: I mentionned beta testing during yesterday's server team meeting
[18:59] <mathiaz> heno: just wanted to make sure I'm still up-to-date with the procedures
[19:00] <heno> mathiaz: do you or Dustin still have access to kick off tests?
[19:00] <mathiaz> heno: not that I know
[19:00] <kirkland> heno: i don't know
[19:00] <heno> we would be happy for you to still have a hand in that this release (if you have time)
[19:01] <kirkland> heno: that's going to be difficult for me, i think, i'm picking up some of soren's responsibilities
[19:01] <heno> ok
[19:02] <kirkland> heno: i'm happy to help as much as I can
[19:03] <heno> kirkland, mathiaz: please have a look at the test results and let us know what's missing
[19:03] <mathiaz> heno: I'll have a look at it.
[19:03] <heno> right, really wrapping up this time
[19:03] <heno> thanks all
[19:03] <heno> !
[19:03] <heno> #endmeeting
[19:03] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:03.