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|* Present and discuss ["ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool"] page - [:dendrobates:RickClark]||* Present and discuss [[ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool]] page - [[dendrobates|RickClark]]|
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|* Review each section of the ["ServerTeam/Roadmap"].||* Review each section of the [[ServerTeam/Roadmap]].|
This is the 6th meeting of the ServerTeam, starting at 15:00 UTC and finishing at 16:14 UTC
Items we will be discussing:
- Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
- Agree on next meeting date and time.
Discuss beta iso testing. [ https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/ ]
Present and discuss ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool page
dendrobates announced the creation of the ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool wiki page as a way to keep track of suggestions for HardyHeron in the server area. Everybody is welcomed to add short ideas to this page.
The ideas will be used to plan discussions during the next Ubuntu Developer Summit.
ACTION: dendrobates will send an email to ubuntu-server to ask more input from users and advertise the ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool page.
Review of previous meeting action items
soren gave a quick update about the new tasksel tasks: print-server, samba-server, postgresql-server and mail-server were added to the ubuntu-server cd. dendrobates mentioned that testcases need to be written to cover these new tasks and added to the iso tracker.
soren gave an update about the official MTA in Ubuntu. It was agreed that settling on a default mta is a good idea and also that it should be postfix. We probably won't change packages to *only* change that, but if we're changing a package (and hence carrying a delta to Debian) we'll do it. Also, we'll try to convince Debian to do the same. Technically, it'll be done by adding a meta package called something like default-mail-transport-agent, which will be prepended each time something depends on m-t-a. default-mail-transport-agent will then in Ubuntu depend on postfix. Debian might choose exim4.
ACTION: soren will send an email on debian-devel about the change.
mathiaz went through samba bugs. He also mentioned that the automatic expiring feature in LP highlighted the fact that we still haven't gone through all bugs in packages and that further work is needed in triagging bugs related to ubuntu-server.
A beta version of ubuntu-server will be released this coming Thursday. Testing of pre-beta isos started.
ACTION: mathiaz will send an email to ubuntu-server to ask about iso testers.
sommer and pschulz01 did some great work in reviewing the server guide. They have a list of improvements, however it's too late for Gusty since there is a Freeze for documentation. mathiaz suggested to add a section in ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool about documentation.
mathiaz also clarified that the community documentation in not frozen and wiki pages under help.ubuntu.com/community/ can still be edited and improved for Gutsy.
dendrobates announced that libpam-ldap and libnss-ldap have been accepted into main and are in the seed. As a result ldap-client-config and auth-client-config are in Gutsy and ldap authentication is officially supported.
mathiaz brought up the subject of having more frequent ubuntu server team meeting. No decision has been taken.
ACTION: nijaba will send an email to ubuntu-server about this issue.
The next Ubuntu Server Team meeting will be on Tuesday, October the 9th, at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.
05:04 dendrobates ok lets go. 05:04 dendrobates Who is here? === mathiaz still hasn't moved from his position === keescook is here === jdstrand is here === nealmcb is here 05:05 dendrobates Is this anyones first server meeting? === sommer here as well === dthacker is here first meeting === freeflying is the first time 05:06 dendrobates hi dthacker freeflying. Welcome. === nijaba [n=nbarcet@unaffiliated/nijaba] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:06 dendrobates The first topic is: Present and discuss ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool page 05:07 nealmcb https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool 05:07 dendrobates It is time to start gathering ideas for the next release. 05:07 dendrobates I encourage everyone to think about what they would like done in Ubuntu Server 05:08 freeflying dendrobates: how about groupware-server now 05:08 dendrobates and add it to the page nealmcb so kindly posted. 05:08 nealmcb :-) 05:09 nealmcb I added a number of See Also links there, and also a link to every existing spec that is subscribed to by at least three server team members, or two members and the team itself. That should make it easy to grab some existing specs that you might want to spruce up and nominate for Hardy and put in in one of the categories higher up on the page. 05:09 dendrobates We will use the ideas on this page to plan the UDS discussions. === coffeedude [n=AD\email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:09 nealmcb and also remind us of specs that need to be marked as done, obsolete or superceded 05:10 mathiaz nealmcb: did you compute the list of subscribed blueprints by hand ? === tonyy [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:10 dendrobates Any questions about the Ideapool wiki? 05:10 nealmcb mathiaz: I munged the html page, and asked the launchpad folks for some xml or text output options :-( === l_ [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:11 dendrobates freeflying: add your ideas to the wiki, I think that is a good idea. 05:11 nealmcb I also tried drawing a graph with graphwiz, but it doesn't help much.... === RobV [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:11 mathiaz I'm thinking about sending a email to ubuntu-server to present the IdeaPool wiki page. 05:11 mathiaz And ask people to add their ideas there. 05:12 ogra mathiaz, you revived it ? yay 05:12 nealmcb mathiaz: I talked about it in my mail last night 05:12 ogra s/revived/reanimated/ 05:12 dendrobates mathiaz: that is a good idea, it reaches a lot more people. 05:12 mathiaz ogra: it has already existed ? 05:12 ogra mathiaz, yep, dholbach created it two years ago 05:13 mathiaz ogra: I haven't seen anything specific for the ServerTeam. 05:13 ogra and it quickly became a mess 05:13 ogra since nobody looked after it and people just added and added stuff 05:13 mathiaz ogra: you're refering to IdeaPool, the big wiki page. 05:13 ogra yeah 05:13 mathiaz ogra: yeah - I've seen it to. Let's hope it won't end up in the same state. 05:14 nijaba we are focusing on server ideas here, and only for Hardy 05:14 ogra ah, youre plannng a subpage somewhere ? ... 05:14 dendrobates mathiaz: I'll post to the mailing list asking for input. 05:14 mathiaz We're just focusing on ideas for Hardy. 05:14 nijaba so it is time bombed 05:14 mathiaz dendrobates: ok. 05:14 ogra nijaba, as long as someone looks after it all is fine i think :) 05:14 nijaba ogra: we'll make ure we do 05:14 mathiaz dendrobates: I think you should mention that people can reply to the mail also, and you could collect idea for the wiki pages. 05:15 dendrobates good idea. 05:15 nijaba s/ure/sure/ 05:15 dthacker Is there a list of new specs implemented for Gutsy, I could use that to do some housecleaning. 05:15 nealmcb wow - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IdeaPool sure is a mess :-) I like the idea in HardyIdeaPool of just one line per idea, with links to blueprints 05:15 mathiaz It may start a big thread, but someone has to track all the ideas and organise them somehow. 05:15 dendrobates next topic 05:15 dendrobates previous Action items. === ds500ss [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ds500ss [email@example.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting  05:16 mathiaz dthacker: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy 05:16 dendrobates mathiaz: since I was not attending, can you go through the open items? === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:17 mathiaz https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20070911 05:17 mathiaz we've setup the TeamReporting infrastructure. And there is a section about the ServerTeam in the monthly report. 05:17 nealmcb thanks 05:18 mathiaz we currently take the minutes of the ServerTeam meeting and add them to the report. 05:18 dendrobates mathiaz: did you get community help? 05:18 mathiaz dendrobates: yes. from dantalizing. 05:18 dendrobates great! 05:19 mathiaz we aggreed that he'll update the team report page according to the minutes I sent from the serverteam meeting. 05:19 dendrobates nealmcb: I believe I saw your spec tracking email go out. 05:19 nealmcb yup 05:19 nealmcb I also added a section to the roadmap 05:20 mathiaz nealmcb: great ! Thanks. 05:20 dendrobates soren: can you update us on the tasksel tasks? 05:20 soren dendrobates: Sure. 05:20 nealmcb https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap#blueprint 05:20 soren I haven't actually looked at the dailies or the beta ISO's, but I believe the new tasks should be rolled into them. 05:20 dendrobates soren: they are. 05:21 soren \o/ 05:21 soren They're not completely locked down, but now they're there, and ready for testing. 05:21 soren If we can agree on changes, that's fine, I think. 05:22 dendrobates speaking of testing, we need to add a test to isotracker for each new task. 05:22 dendrobates unless that has been done already. 05:22 mathiaz we also need to specify the testcases. 05:22 ogra dendrobates, heno and stgraber usually do that if you tell them the version 05:23 dendrobates I think we will have to provide the testing instructions, though. 05:23 mathiaz dendrobates: yop. 05:23 mathiaz dendrobates: do you have admin rights on isotesting ? 05:23 dendrobates I some admin rights, but no knowledge. 05:24 jdstrand I can verify that I already have a list of things to do from heno for amd64 server ISO testing 05:24 mathiaz dendrobates: you may be able to add new testcases then, with a link to the wiki page describing the test. 05:24 dendrobates I will contact heno and make sure. 05:24 jdstrand s/I can verify that// 05:24 dendrobates ok, jdstrand you can do it. === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:25 dendrobates soren's email about an official MTA generated some discussion. 05:25 jdstrand dendrobates: I am not sure what I just signed up for. I was trying to say that heno already contacted me about doing ISO testing 05:26 dendrobates soren: would you cae to summarize. 05:26 soren Yes. I've yet to sent the e-mail to debian-devel, but it's in the works. 05:26 soren Sure. 05:26 dendrobates jdstrand: I'll take care of it. === pschulz01 [n=pschulz0@ubuntu/member/pschulz01] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:26 mathiaz jdstrand: did you create an account on isotesting ? 05:26 jdstrand mathiaz: yes === pschulz01 missed the meeting call in #ubuntu-server. 05:27 mathiaz jdstrand: so you've been subscribed to a series of testcases. 05:27 soren We agreed that settling on a default mta is a good idea and also that it should be postfix. We probably will not change packages to *only* change that, but if we're changing a package (and hence carrying a delta to Debian) we'll do it. Also, we'll try to convince Debian to do the same. === Mez_ [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:27 soren Technically, it'll be done by adding a meta package called something like default-mail-transport-agent, which will be prepended each time something depends on m-t-a. 05:27 jdstrand mathiaz: I got an email from heno asking me to do so. heno and I talked on IRC about what I could do. We agreed, then got an email this morning 05:28 soren default-mail-transport-agent will then in Ubuntu depend on postfix. Debian might choose exim4. 05:29 dendrobates great and mdz seemed happy that you were addressing this issue. === illovae_ [n=illovae@unaffiliated/illovae] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:29 nealmcb sounds like a good, flexible solution 05:30 freeflying soren: it should depends on postfix | exim4, but not only on postfix 05:30 soren freeflying: Yes. Only postfix. 05:30 soren freeflying: A package that needs an m-t-a will depend on: 05:30 soren Depends: default-mail-transport-agent | mail-transport-agent 05:31 soren Each of postfix, exim4, msmtp-mta, sendmail, qmail, etc... will "Provides: mail-tranport-agent" 05:31 soren default-mail-transport-agent will depend on postfix. 05:31 Mithrandir well, they already do the latter. 05:31 Mithrandir except without the typo 05:31 soren That makes any m-t-a fulfill the dependency, but postfix be the preferred one. 05:31 soren Mithrandir: :p 05:31 soren Mithrandir: Right. 05:31 dendrobates soren: what gives you the feeling that Debian might choose exim4? 05:32 soren dendrobates: That at laeast used to be the default mta in debian. 05:32 Mithrandir they've historically preferred exim, but there's a fairly large contigent of postfix lovers there too === soren hasn't used Debian for a few years.. 05:32 soren Mithrandir: They don't install an mta by default anymore? 05:33 Mithrandir soren: I can't remember; I tend to explicitly install exim myself. 05:33 soren Yeah. I like exim, too :) 05:33 Mithrandir (well, exim4, not exim) 05:34 freeflying soren: in sid, they will not install exim defaultly 05:34 dendrobates well I think it is settled, we will default to postfix, and soren will broach the subject with Debian. 05:34 dendrobates that is the last of the action items. 05:35 dendrobates next is the roadmap. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap 05:35 lamont soren: I'm happy to help you with uploading the default-mail-transport-agent package, if you need 05:35 dendrobates I noticed mathiaz has triaged about 15 million samba bugs. === nealmcb cheers for mathiaz! 05:36 soren lamont: In Debian, you mean? 05:36 lamont yes === mralphabet [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:36 soren lamont: Cool. === soren hugs mathiaz 05:36 lamont 'twould be funny for me to own an exim-depending package for a while... 05:36 nealmcb mathiaz: only launchpad has you beat :-( but they fixed that I guess :-) === mathiaz only started to look at the bugs... At some they'll have to be fixed 05:37 mathiaz nealmcb: yeah. The auto-expiring feature has been disabled I think. 05:38 dendrobates mathiaz: anything you want to say about triaging corner? 05:38 mathiaz not really. 05:38 mathiaz just that we still need to have a look at the bugs. 05:39 dendrobates I think packaging is done as well. 05:39 mathiaz when I've received the expiring mails I was surprised and thought that we even had a look at the bugs to see whether they're valid or not. 05:39 mathiaz that means we still need to go through the bugs and see which are relevant. 05:40 dendrobates Testing: we need as much testing of the beta as possible. 05:40 mathiaz especially on server-type hardware. 05:40 dendrobates I encourage everyone to signup at https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/ 05:41 dendrobates and do as many tests as possible. We especially need sparc testers. 05:41 pschulz01 dendrobates: Is there a sparc release? 05:41 mathiaz if anyone has access to server hardware (from dell, ibm, hp, etc...) could you please test the server iso ? 05:41 dendrobates yes 05:42 dendrobates mathiaz: can you post to the mailing list asking for testers? 05:42 mathiaz dendrobates: I was wondering when I should do that ? 05:42 mathiaz dendrobates: for the pre-beta or once beta has been announced ? 05:43 dendrobates I was thinking of that as well. we should get heno's opinion. 05:43 dendrobates documentation: 05:44 dendrobates any updates? 05:44 pschulz01 dendrobates: Yes! 05:44 dendrobates pschulz01: go ahead. 05:44 pschulz01 dendrobates: I only started this evening, while waiting.. but.. 05:44 pschulz01 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz/UbuntuServerDocumentationReview 05:45 sommer I added some of the sections I worked on to the ServerTeam Roadmap Documentor section 05:45 mathiaz pschulz01: so these are the notes about the current server guide ? 05:45 dendrobates sommer: thanks. 05:45 pschulz01 sommer: You made a good start.,.. 05:45 mathiaz pschulz01: isn't it too late to make such changes ? 05:46 nijaba pschulz01: could we add section in the guide on how to set up thin clients ? 05:46 pschulz01 mathiaz: Yes. I'm sucking down the documentation svn as we speak.. 05:46 mathiaz pschulz01: I think there is a Freeze for the documentation as of now. 05:46 pschulz01 mathiaz: Oh well.. 05:46 mathiaz nijaba: I think it would be a good idea, but too late for gutsy. 05:46 pschulz01 mathiaz: I'll have patches. 05:46 sommer One of my Hardy ideas to update the Server section before the freeze. 05:47 nijaba mathiaz: for hardy, then 05:47 mathiaz nijaba: yes. 05:47 dendrobates but not community documentation, right. 05:47 nijaba mathiaz: cause we are mentioning it on he server cd jacket 05:47 mathiaz sommer: yes. You can add a documentation section in the HardyIdeaPool 05:47 nealmcb I threw a bit of text in the wiki for some of the missing ubotu factoids, but some more links to relevant documentation pages would also be good. Then need to get them into the database. And I keep watching for missing topics. 05:48 dendrobates nijaba: in my opinion it is mentioned too much. on the web page as well. 05:48 mathiaz dendrobates: by community you mean the wiki at help.ubuntu.com/community % 05:48 pschulz01 mathiaz: One of my other ideas is here.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz/UbuntuServerDocumentation 05:48 pschulz01 mathiaz: 'micro-manuals' 05:48 sommer mathiaz: will do 05:48 dendrobates mathiaz: yes we can add docs there, right. 05:48 dendrobates that might be all we can do for Gutsy. 05:48 mathiaz pschulz01: I suggest you add your ideas to the HardyIdeaPool and then create a blueprint. 05:48 pschulz01 mathiaz: Ok. 05:48 mathiaz dendrobates: yes. community wiki is not frozen. 05:49 dendrobates so if we are missing import docs, add them there. 05:49 mathiaz dendrobates: the server guide is frozen so that translator can work on it. 05:49 dendrobates important. 05:50 dendrobates ok can we move to development? === pschulz01 goes woot... I now have entire doc tree, 05:50 dendrobates mathiaz: AppArmor update? 05:51 mathiaz we're back on track. the kernel module has been updated. 05:51 keescook \o/ 05:51 mathiaz we've started to see bug reports about profiles, so people are using it. 05:52 mathiaz I'm quite happy with the current state. keescook ? 05:52 keescook yeah, it's looking good. the delay in getting the new kernel module set us back, but I think we're in good shape now. 05:52 keescook I too have some abstraction tweaks for post-beta. 05:53 mathiaz we won't ship a profile for dhclient3 05:53 mathiaz but cupsys will have one === Mez__ [n=Mez@5ac51c4b.bb.sky.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:53 nealmcb is there a way for folks to share profiles and stuff like that? (knows little about apparmor...) 05:53 dendrobates I am happy to announce the libpam-ldap and libnss-ldap have been accepted into main and are in the seed. 05:53 keescook has pitti looked at cupsys web UI issues? 05:53 mathiaz nealmcb: yes. upstream has a repository 05:54 keescook mathiaz: is there docs on how to use the shared repo? I'd like to submit a few of mine 05:54 mathiaz keescook: I don't think so. He was busy playing RM 05:54 keescook okay 05:54 mathiaz keescook: not that I know of. I think their dns is not setup correctly. 05:54 nealmcb dendrobates: cool - thanks 05:55 mathiaz keescook: hum.. it is: http://apparmor.opensuse.org/ 05:55 dendrobates so ldap-client-config and auth-client-config are in Gutsy. === jdstrand cheers *hooray* === mdz [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lbm [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 05:55 dendrobates it has been a long time coming in my opinion. === nijaba yeeeppee === pschulz01 goes woot! 05:56 nealmcb this is a good time for folks to update the blueprints related to these successes.... 05:56 dendrobates we have already discussed hardy planning, so the last few minutes are open. 05:57 dendrobates anyone have anything? 05:57 mathiaz do we need meetings more often ? 05:57 pschulz01 mathiaz: Have added 'micro-manual' to HardyIdeaPool. 05:57 mathiaz or is every two weeks enough ? 05:57 dendrobates good question, with Hardy coming up, maybe 05:58 sommer I have a quick documentor section question, would it be better to create a page like pschulz01 did and link it from the RoadMap page? 05:58 dendrobates lets continue like this, every two weeks, until there is a need. perhaps after 05:58 dendrobates uds === nealmcb I think given the need to review and drive specs, and the bug work, etc it would be useful to meet weekly 05:59 nealmcb uds is in just one month... 05:59 dendrobates any other opinions? 05:59 soren We alternate this slot with the kernel team. 05:59 pschulz01 sommer: I just did that as I didn't want to step on anyones toes. 06:00 nealmcb ajmitch has expressed interest in a different time slot from time to time 06:00 soren We'd need another timeslot every other week. 06:00 sommer pschulz01: I think it makes great sense, less clutter on the RoadMap page. 06:00 dendrobates we would have to choose a different time, perhaps earlier, for our European friends. 06:00 mathiaz yes. That would help folks in asia. === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting === pschulz01 would appriciate another time slot. 06:01 nealmcb what would 0100 UTC be like? on alternate weeks?? 06:01 mathiaz dendrobates: you'd do it earlier ? I don't think it would help aussie 06:01 soren That's 3 AM here. 06:02 soren Of course you could have a meeting without me. 06:02 dendrobates we should take this up on the mailing list. === nealmcb nods 06:03 dendrobates there might be other who could not attend at this time that have a preference. === Mrfai [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 06:03 mathiaz dendrobates: I aggree. 06:04 dendrobates any volunteers to start te conversation on the mailing list? 06:04 nealmcb does launchpad have a way to plot folks' timezones? === nijaba raises his hand 06:04 dendrobates ok nijaba, go ahead. === nijaba will o 06:05 dendrobates we are out of time folks. Good meeting. 06:05 nealmcb thanks folks 06:05 mathiaz nealmcb: nope. But keescook has a good website that does that. 06:06 keescook timeanddate.com! 06:06 keescook the "Meeting Planner" on there is great. 06:06 mathiaz thanks. === Mrfai [firstname.lastname@example.org] has left #ubuntu-meeting  06:06 nealmcb mathiaz: yeah. I'm mostly looking for something that will take an existing team with known timezones and help people guess about good time 06:06 mathiaz so next meeting in two weeks, same place, same time. 06:07 mathiaz nealmcb: that would be great. You should file a bug about it. === nealmcb surfs === nealmcb nods 06:08 pschulz01 mathiaz: Blueprint is here -> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/micro-manuals 06:09 dendrobates bye everyone 06:09 mathiaz pschulz01: seems great. But you should try to follow the SpecSpec template in the wiki page. 06:09 sommer thanks all...later on 06:09 pschulz01 mathiaz: URL? === sommer [email@example.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting  06:09 pschulz01 mathiaz: Just SpecSpec? === tehk [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 06:10 mathiaz pschulz01: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications 06:10 mathiaz pschulz01: explains the whole process. 06:10 pschulz01 mathiaz: Ta. 06:10 mathiaz pschulz01: np. 06:11 mathiaz Thanks all === mathiaz [n=mathiaz@ubuntu/member/mathiaz] has left #ubuntu-meeting  06:14 nealmcb rats - the foaf/xml output from launchpad doesn't include the timezone... https://edge.launchpad.net/~nealmcb/+rdf