20070927

Revision 1 as of 2007-09-25 19:05:21

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This is the nth meeting of the Your Team, starting at xx:xx GMT and finishing at xx:xx GMT

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05:04   dendrobates     ok lets go.
05:04   dendrobates     Who is here?
=== mathiaz still hasn't moved from his position
=== keescook is here
=== jdstrand is here
=== nealmcb is here
05:05   dendrobates     Is this anyones first server meeting?
=== sommer here as well
=== dthacker is here first meeting
=== freeflying is the first time
05:06   dendrobates     hi dthacker freeflying.  Welcome.
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05:06   dendrobates     The first topic is: Present and discuss ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool page
05:07   nealmcb https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool
05:07   dendrobates     It is time to start gathering ideas for the next release.
05:07   dendrobates     I encourage everyone to think about what they would like done in Ubuntu Server
05:08   freeflying      dendrobates: how about groupware-server now
05:08   dendrobates     and add it to the page nealmcb so kindly posted.
05:08   nealmcb :-)
05:09   nealmcb I added a number of See Also links there, and also a link to every existing spec that is subscribed to by at least three server team members, or two members and the team itself.  That should make it easy to grab some existing specs that you might want to spruce up and nominate for Hardy and put in in one of the categories higher up on the page.
05:09   dendrobates     We will use the ideas on this page to plan the UDS discussions.
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05:09   nealmcb and also remind us of specs that need to be marked as done, obsolete or superceded
05:10   mathiaz nealmcb: did you compute the list of subscribed blueprints by hand ?
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05:10   dendrobates     Any questions about the Ideapool wiki?
05:10   nealmcb mathiaz: I munged the html page, and asked the launchpad folks for some xml or text output options :-(
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05:11   dendrobates     freeflying: add your ideas to the wiki, I think that is a good idea.
05:11   nealmcb I also tried drawing a graph with graphwiz, but it doesn't help much....
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05:11   mathiaz I'm thinking about sending a email to ubuntu-server to present the IdeaPool wiki page.
05:11   mathiaz And ask people to add their ideas there.
05:12   ogra    mathiaz, you revived it ? yay
05:12   nealmcb mathiaz: I talked about it in my mail last night
05:12   ogra    s/revived/reanimated/
05:12   dendrobates     mathiaz: that is a good idea, it reaches a lot more people.
05:12   mathiaz ogra: it has already existed ?
05:12   ogra    mathiaz, yep, dholbach created it two years ago
05:13   mathiaz ogra: I haven't seen anything specific for the ServerTeam.
05:13   ogra    and it quickly became a mess
05:13   ogra    since nobody looked after it and people just added and added stuff
05:13   mathiaz ogra: you're refering to IdeaPool, the big wiki page.
05:13   ogra    yeah
05:13   mathiaz ogra: yeah - I've seen it to. Let's hope it won't end up in the same state.
05:14   nijaba  we are focusing on server ideas here, and only for Hardy
05:14   ogra    ah, youre plannng a subpage somewhere ? ...
05:14   dendrobates     mathiaz: I'll post to the mailing list asking for input.
05:14   mathiaz We're just focusing on ideas for Hardy.
05:14   nijaba  so it is time bombed
05:14   mathiaz dendrobates: ok.
05:14   ogra    nijaba, as long as someone looks after it all is fine i think :)
05:14   nijaba  ogra: we'll make ure we do
05:14   mathiaz dendrobates: I think you should mention that people can reply to the mail also, and you could collect idea for the wiki pages.
05:15   dendrobates     good idea.
05:15   nijaba  s/ure/sure/
05:15   dthacker        Is there a list of new specs implemented for Gutsy, I could use that to do some housecleaning.
05:15   nealmcb wow - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IdeaPool sure is a mess :-)  I like the idea in HardyIdeaPool of just one line per idea, with links to blueprints
05:15   mathiaz It may start a big thread, but someone has to track all the ideas and organise them somehow.
05:15   dendrobates     next topic
05:15   dendrobates     previous Action items.
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05:16   mathiaz dthacker: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy
05:16   dendrobates     mathiaz: since I was not attending, can you  go through the open items?
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05:17   mathiaz https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20070911
05:17   mathiaz we've setup the TeamReporting infrastructure. And there is a section about the ServerTeam in the monthly report.
05:17   nealmcb thanks
05:18   mathiaz we currently take the minutes of the ServerTeam meeting and add them to the report.
05:18   dendrobates     mathiaz: did you get community help?
05:18   mathiaz dendrobates: yes. from dantalizing.
05:18   dendrobates     great!
05:19   mathiaz we aggreed that he'll update the team report page according to the minutes I sent from the serverteam meeting.
05:19   dendrobates     nealmcb: I believe I saw your spec tracking email go out.
05:19   nealmcb yup
05:19   nealmcb I also added a section to the roadmap
05:20   mathiaz nealmcb: great ! Thanks.
05:20   dendrobates     soren: can you update us on the tasksel tasks?
05:20   soren   dendrobates: Sure.
05:20   nealmcb https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap#blueprint
05:20   soren   I haven't actually looked at the dailies or the beta ISO's, but I believe the new tasks should be rolled into them.
05:20   dendrobates     soren: they are.
05:21   soren   \o/
05:21   soren   They're not completely locked down, but now they're there, and ready for testing.
05:21   soren   If we can agree on changes, that's fine, I think.
05:22   dendrobates     speaking of testing, we need to add a test to isotracker for each new task.
05:22   dendrobates     unless that has been done already.
05:22   mathiaz we also need to specify the testcases.
05:22   ogra    dendrobates, heno and stgraber usually do that if you tell them the version
05:23   dendrobates     I think we will have to provide the testing instructions, though.
05:23   mathiaz dendrobates: yop.
05:23   mathiaz dendrobates: do you have admin rights on isotesting ?
05:23   dendrobates     I some admin rights, but no knowledge.
05:24   jdstrand        I can verify that I already have a list of things to do from heno for amd64 server ISO testing
05:24   mathiaz dendrobates: you may be able to add new testcases then, with a link to the wiki page describing the test.
05:24   dendrobates     I will contact heno and make sure.
05:24   jdstrand        s/I can verify that//
05:24   dendrobates     ok, jdstrand you can do it.
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05:25   dendrobates     soren's email about an official MTA generated some discussion.
05:25   jdstrand        dendrobates: I am not sure what I just signed up for.  I was trying to say that heno already contacted me about doing ISO testing
05:26   dendrobates     soren: would you cae to summarize.
05:26   soren   Yes. I've yet to sent the e-mail to debian-devel, but it's in the works.
05:26   soren   Sure.
05:26   dendrobates     jdstrand: I'll take care of it.
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05:26   mathiaz jdstrand: did you create an account on isotesting ?
05:26   jdstrand        mathiaz: yes
=== pschulz01 missed the meeting call in #ubuntu-server.
05:27   mathiaz jdstrand: so you've been subscribed to a series of testcases.
05:27   soren   We agreed that settling on a default mta is a good idea and also that it should be postfix. We probably will not change packages to *only* change that, but if we're changing a package (and hence carrying a delta to Debian) we'll do it. Also, we'll try to convince Debian to do the same.
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05:27   soren   Technically, it'll be done by adding a meta package called something like default-mail-transport-agent, which will be prepended each time something depends on m-t-a.
05:27   jdstrand        mathiaz: I got an email from heno asking me to do so.  heno and I talked on IRC about what I could do.  We agreed, then got an email this morning
05:28   soren   default-mail-transport-agent will then in Ubuntu depend on postfix. Debian might choose exim4.
05:29   dendrobates     great and mdz seemed happy that you were addressing this issue.
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05:29   nealmcb sounds like a good, flexible solution
05:30   freeflying      soren: it should depends on postfix | exim4, but not only on postfix
05:30   soren   freeflying: Yes. Only postfix.
05:30   soren   freeflying: A package that needs an m-t-a will depend on:
05:30   soren   Depends: default-mail-transport-agent |  mail-transport-agent
05:31   soren   Each of postfix, exim4, msmtp-mta, sendmail, qmail, etc... will "Provides: mail-tranport-agent"
05:31   soren   default-mail-transport-agent will depend on postfix.
05:31   Mithrandir      well, they already do the latter.
05:31   Mithrandir      except without the typo
05:31   soren   That makes any m-t-a fulfill the dependency, but postfix be the preferred one.
05:31   soren   Mithrandir: :p
05:31   soren   Mithrandir: Right.
05:31   dendrobates     soren: what gives you the feeling that Debian might choose exim4?
05:32   soren   dendrobates: That at laeast used to be the default mta in debian.
05:32   Mithrandir      they've historically preferred exim, but there's a fairly large contigent of postfix lovers there too
=== soren hasn't used Debian for a few years..
05:32   soren   Mithrandir: They don't install an mta by default anymore?
05:33   Mithrandir      soren: I can't remember; I tend to explicitly install exim myself.
05:33   soren   Yeah. I like exim, too :)
05:33   Mithrandir      (well, exim4, not exim)
05:34   freeflying      soren: in sid, they will not install exim defaultly
05:34   dendrobates     well I think it is settled, we will default to postfix, and soren will broach the subject with Debian.
05:34   dendrobates     that is the last of the action items.
05:35   dendrobates     next is the roadmap. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
05:35   lamont  soren: I'm happy to help you with uploading the default-mail-transport-agent package, if you need
05:35   dendrobates     I noticed mathiaz has triaged about 15 million samba bugs.
=== nealmcb cheers for mathiaz!
05:36   soren   lamont: In Debian, you mean?
05:36   lamont  yes
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05:36   soren   lamont: Cool.
=== soren hugs mathiaz
05:36   lamont  'twould be funny for me to own an exim-depending package for a while...
05:36   nealmcb mathiaz: only launchpad has you beat :-(  but they fixed that I guess :-)
=== mathiaz only started to look at the bugs... At some they'll have to be fixed
05:37   mathiaz nealmcb: yeah. The auto-expiring feature has been disabled I think.
05:38   dendrobates     mathiaz: anything you want to say about triaging corner?
05:38   mathiaz not really.
05:38   mathiaz just that we still need to have a look at the bugs.
05:39   dendrobates     I think packaging is done as well.
05:39   mathiaz when I've received the expiring mails I was surprised  and thought that we even had a look at the bugs to see whether they're valid or not.
05:39   mathiaz that means we still need to go through the bugs and see which are relevant.
05:40   dendrobates     Testing: we need as much testing of the beta as possible.
05:40   mathiaz especially on server-type hardware.
05:40   dendrobates     I encourage everyone to signup at https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/
05:41   dendrobates     and do as many tests as possible.  We especially need sparc testers.
05:41   pschulz01       dendrobates: Is there a sparc release?
05:41   mathiaz if anyone has access to server hardware (from dell, ibm, hp, etc...) could you please test the server iso ?
05:41   dendrobates     yes
05:42   dendrobates     mathiaz: can you post to the mailing list asking for testers?
05:42   mathiaz dendrobates: I was wondering when I should do that ?
05:42   mathiaz dendrobates: for the pre-beta or once beta has been announced ?
05:43   dendrobates     I was thinking of that as well.  we should get heno's opinion.
05:43   dendrobates     documentation:
05:44   dendrobates     any updates?
05:44   pschulz01       dendrobates: Yes!
05:44   dendrobates     pschulz01: go ahead.
05:44   pschulz01       dendrobates: I only started this evening, while waiting..  but..
05:44   pschulz01       https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz/UbuntuServerDocumentationReview
05:45   sommer  I added some of the sections I worked on to the ServerTeam Roadmap Documentor section
05:45   mathiaz pschulz01: so these are the notes about the current server guide ?
05:45   dendrobates     sommer: thanks.
05:45   pschulz01       sommer: You made a good start.,..
05:45   mathiaz pschulz01: isn't it too late to make such changes ?
05:46   nijaba  pschulz01: could we add  section in the guide on how to set up thin clients ?
05:46   pschulz01       mathiaz: Yes. I'm sucking down the documentation svn as we speak..
05:46   mathiaz pschulz01: I think there is a Freeze for the documentation as of now.
05:46   pschulz01       mathiaz: Oh well..
05:46   mathiaz nijaba: I think it would be a good idea, but too late for gutsy.
05:46   pschulz01       mathiaz: I'll have patches.
05:46   sommer  One of my Hardy ideas to update the Server section before the freeze.
05:47   nijaba  mathiaz: for hardy, then
05:47   mathiaz nijaba: yes.
05:47   dendrobates     but not community documentation, right.
05:47   nijaba  mathiaz: cause we are mentioning it on he server cd jacket
05:47   mathiaz sommer: yes. You can add a documentation section in the HardyIdeaPool
05:47   nealmcb I threw a bit of text in the wiki for some of the missing ubotu factoids, but some more links to relevant documentation pages would also be good. Then need to get them into the database.   And I keep watching for missing topics.
05:48   dendrobates     nijaba: in my opinion it is mentioned too much. on the web page as well.
05:48   mathiaz dendrobates: by community you mean the wiki at help.ubuntu.com/community %
05:48   pschulz01       mathiaz: One of my other ideas is here.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz/UbuntuServerDocumentation
05:48   pschulz01       mathiaz: 'micro-manuals'
05:48   sommer  mathiaz: will do
05:48   dendrobates     mathiaz: yes we can add docs there, right.
05:48   dendrobates     that might be all we can do for Gutsy.
05:48   mathiaz pschulz01: I suggest you add your ideas to the HardyIdeaPool and then create a blueprint.
05:48   pschulz01       mathiaz: Ok.
05:48   mathiaz dendrobates: yes. community wiki is not frozen.
05:49   dendrobates     so if we are missing import docs, add them there.
05:49   mathiaz dendrobates: the server guide is frozen so that translator can work on it.
05:49   dendrobates     important.
05:50   dendrobates     ok can we move to development?
=== pschulz01 goes woot... I now have entire doc tree,
05:50   dendrobates     mathiaz: AppArmor update?
05:51   mathiaz we're back on track. the kernel module has been updated.
05:51   keescook        \o/
05:51   mathiaz we've started to see bug reports about profiles, so people are using it.
05:52   mathiaz I'm quite happy with the current state. keescook ?
05:52   keescook        yeah, it's looking good.  the delay in getting the new kernel module set us back, but I think we're in good shape now.
05:52   keescook        I too have some abstraction tweaks for post-beta.
05:53   mathiaz we won't ship a profile for dhclient3
05:53   mathiaz but cupsys will have one
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05:53   nealmcb is there a way for folks to share profiles and stuff like that?  (knows little about apparmor...)
05:53   dendrobates     I am happy to announce the libpam-ldap and libnss-ldap have been accepted into main and are in the seed.
05:53   keescook        has pitti looked at cupsys web UI issues?
05:53   mathiaz nealmcb: yes. upstream has a repository
05:54   keescook        mathiaz: is there docs on how to use the shared repo?  I'd like to submit a few of mine
05:54   mathiaz keescook: I don't think so. He was busy playing RM
05:54   keescook        okay
05:54   mathiaz keescook: not that I know of. I think their dns is not setup correctly.
05:54   nealmcb dendrobates: cool - thanks
05:55   mathiaz keescook: hum.. it is: http://apparmor.opensuse.org/
05:55   dendrobates     so ldap-client-config and auth-client-config are in Gutsy.
=== jdstrand cheers *hooray*
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05:55   dendrobates     it has been a long time coming in my opinion.
=== nijaba yeeeppee
=== pschulz01 goes woot!
05:56   nealmcb this is a good time for folks to update the blueprints related to these successes....
05:56   dendrobates     we have already discussed hardy planning, so the last few minutes are open.
05:57   dendrobates     anyone have anything?
05:57   mathiaz do we need meetings more often ?
05:57   pschulz01       mathiaz: Have added 'micro-manual' to HardyIdeaPool.
05:57   mathiaz or is every two weeks enough ?
05:57   dendrobates     good question, with Hardy coming up, maybe
05:58   sommer  I have a quick documentor section question, would it be better to create a page like pschulz01 did and link it from the RoadMap page?
05:58   dendrobates     lets continue like this, every two weeks, until there is a need.  perhaps after
05:58   dendrobates     uds
=== nealmcb I think given the need to review and drive specs, and the bug work, etc it would be useful to meet weekly
05:59   nealmcb uds is in just one month...
05:59   dendrobates     any other opinions?
05:59   soren   We alternate this slot with the kernel team.
05:59   pschulz01       sommer: I just did that as I didn't want to step on anyones toes.
06:00   nealmcb ajmitch has expressed interest in a different time slot from time to time
06:00   soren   We'd need another timeslot every other week.
06:00   sommer  pschulz01: I think it makes great sense, less clutter on the RoadMap page.
06:00   dendrobates     we would have to choose a different time, perhaps earlier, for our European friends.
06:00   mathiaz yes. That would help folks in asia.
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting
=== pschulz01 would appriciate another time slot.
06:01   nealmcb what would  0100 UTC be like?  on alternate weeks??
06:01   mathiaz dendrobates: you'd do it earlier ? I don't think it would help aussie
06:01   soren   That's 3 AM here.
06:02   soren   Of course you could have a meeting without me.
06:02   dendrobates     we should take this up on the mailing list.
=== nealmcb nods
06:03   dendrobates     there might be other who could not attend at this time that have a preference.
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06:03   mathiaz dendrobates: I aggree.
06:04   dendrobates     any volunteers to start te conversation on the mailing list?
06:04   nealmcb does launchpad have a way to plot folks' timezones?
=== nijaba raises his hand
06:04   dendrobates     ok nijaba, go ahead.
=== nijaba will o
06:05   dendrobates     we are out of time folks.  Good meeting.
06:05   nealmcb thanks folks
06:05   mathiaz nealmcb: nope. But keescook has a good website that does that.
06:06   keescook        timeanddate.com!
06:06   keescook        the "Meeting Planner" on there is great.
06:06   mathiaz thanks.
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06:06   nealmcb mathiaz: yeah.  I'm mostly looking for something that will take an existing team with known timezones and help people guess about good time
06:06   mathiaz so next meeting in two weeks, same place, same time.
06:07   mathiaz nealmcb: that would be great. You should file a bug about it.
=== nealmcb surfs
=== nealmcb nods
06:08   pschulz01       mathiaz: Blueprint is here -> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/micro-manuals
06:09   dendrobates     bye everyone
06:09   mathiaz pschulz01: seems great. But you should try to follow the SpecSpec template in the wiki page.
06:09   sommer  thanks all...later on
06:09   pschulz01       mathiaz: URL?
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06:09   pschulz01       mathiaz: Just SpecSpec?
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06:10   mathiaz pschulz01: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications
06:10   mathiaz pschulz01: explains the whole process.
06:10   pschulz01       mathiaz: Ta.
06:10   mathiaz pschulz01: np.
06:11   mathiaz Thanks all
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06:14   nealmcb rats - the foaf/xml output from launchpad doesn't include the timezone...  https://edge.launchpad.net/~nealmcb/+rdf 


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