Ubuntu Wiki

Agenda

Items we will be discussing:

• Review ACTION points from previous meeting.

• Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.

• As trafic increases on #ubuntu-server, is it time to create a #ubuntu-server-dev chan? - nijaba
• Open Discussion.
• Agree on next meeting date and time.

Minutes

python-vm-builder

mathiaz reported he had performed a lot of testing of python-vm-builder. Most of the bugs found have been fixed by nijaba. soren said he was catching up with the commits to the trunk branch and planned to upload a new version before release.

iscsi support for interpid

kirkland looked into fixing existing bugs but it was decided that it was too late in the cycle to try fixing them. Work on iscsi has been deferred to the next cycle.

Iso testing

mathiaz reported that testing for the RC images had started. The ISO testing tracker is used to coordinate testing results. There are now 14 test cases listed for the 2 -server isos. Help is welcome.

mathiaz reported that his raid install test cases were failing. He asked for help in doing manual raid installation testing. sommer and kirkland offered to look into the issue.

ubuntu-server-devel channel

nijaba brought up the subject of creating a new ubuntu-server-devel channel. The identified problem was that ignoring user support requests while developers were discussing other issues in the channel seemed rude to the end users. After some discussion it turned out that creating an ubuntu-server-devel channel would not solve the problem.

UDS topics

mathiaz announced that ideas for the next UDS should be added to the IdeaPool wiki page of the Server Team so that they could be taken into account when the list of topics for the next UDS would be prepared.

Replacing Frozen Bubble in Jaunty

During the Open Discussion zul stated that he was planning on packaging blub blub as a replacement for the popular Frozen Bubble program. That lead to strong opposition from other meeting attendees: kirkland stated that it better be *damn* good, if it's to replace FB while nijaba raised some concerns about the blub license not being GPL friendly. The atmosphere was on the brink of war as kirkland was drawing his slingshot back while nijaba was loading mentos. mathiaz suggested that a full day of UDS should be dedicated to this hot topic. The situation went back under control when zul reconsidered his position.

Agree on next meeting date and time

Next meeting will be on Tuesday, October 29th at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

Log

[16:13] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:13] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:13. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:13] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:13] <nealmcb> o/
[16:13] <nijaba> o/
[16:13] <Koon> \o
[16:13] <mathiaz> Today's exceptional agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:14] <mathiaz> Last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20081014
[16:14] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] python-vm-builder
[16:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  python-vm-builder
[16:14] <mathiaz> So I've started to look at python-vm-builder.
[16:14] <mathiaz> And did a lot of testing.
[16:14] <mathiaz> Things are in good shape. The last bit I'm testing is the ec2 plugin.
[16:15] <mathiaz> I'm able to boot an instance, but not able to ssh in
[16:15] <zul> did you install ssh?
[16:15] <mathiaz> nijaba: thanks for all the hard work you've put in fixing the bugs
[16:15] <mathiaz> zul: yes.
[16:15] <mathiaz> zul: I may ask some help later on this part.
[16:15] <nijaba> mathiaz: a learning treasure and pleasure while soren was away
[16:15] <zul> mathiaz: okies
[16:16] <mathiaz> soren: did you have some time to review all the changes to vmbuilder?
[16:16] <mathiaz> soren: do you want to do the upload?
[16:18] <soren> I'd like to to the upload, but I've not caught up yet.
[16:18] <soren> I still have 25 commits to look through.
[16:18] <mathiaz> soren: ok - the deadline is thursday
[16:18]  * soren nods
[16:18] <mathiaz> soren: IMO we'll have to ask for a FFe as we're introducing the ec2 public.;
[16:18] <mathiaz> soren: other than that everything looks like bug fixes
[16:19] <zul> soren: yeah nijaba has been a busy little beaver
[16:19] <soren> mathiaz: Sort of.
[16:19] <soren> mathiaz: The ec2 plugin is already in the version in the archive.
[16:19] <nijaba> mathiaz: ec2 plugin was there in v2
[16:19] <mathiaz> ah - hm- ok then
[16:19] <nijaba> mathiaz: we added missing parameters, to fix bugs
[16:19] <mathiaz> then I don't think we've added new features
[16:20] <nijaba> mathiaz: I had to refrain myself ;)
[16:20] <mathiaz> that's all I have on vmbuilder
[16:20] <mathiaz> zul: nijaba: anything else?
[16:20] <nijaba> mathiaz: nope
[16:20] <ScottK> So is the ec2-ami-tools upload that was just done only bugfix?
[16:21] <zul> nope
[16:21] <zul> mathiaz: nope
[16:21] <zul> the ec2-ami-tools was the tools for ec2
[16:21] <nijaba> ScottK: but this had its own ffe
[16:21] <mathiaz> ScottK: which upload?
[16:21] <ScottK> New package: ec2-ami-tools (multiverse) [1.3-26357-0ubuntu3 → 1.3-26357-0ubuntu4]
[16:22] <ScottK> The ubuntu4 one
[16:22] <zul> thats me...I just uploaded a typo fix in a patch
[16:22] <ScottK> zul: OK.  I'll ask to get it accepted then.
[16:22] <zul> k thanks
[16:23] <mathiaz> ok. There are other things than need to be fixed.
[16:23] <mathiaz> zul: what did you fix?
[16:23] <zul> mathiaz: the upload bundle ruby script was pointing to the wrong directory
[16:23] <mathiaz> I've noticed that there is a curl dependency missing as well as a fix in the point-to-right-location patch
[16:24] <mathiaz> zul: ok - that's the second fix I'm talking about
[16:24] <mathiaz> ScottK: I'll do another upload to fix the curl dependency
[16:24] <zul> uhhh...ok
[16:25] <mathiaz> that's all from last week minutes
[16:25] <mathiaz> anything else to add?
[16:26] <mathiaz> nope - let's move on
[16:26] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] iscsi support for interpid
[16:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  iscsi support for interpid
[16:26] <mathiaz> kirkland: ^^?
[16:26] <kirkland> mathiaz: per dendrobates, this is too late for intrepid
[16:27] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok.
[16:27] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Iso testing
[16:27] <nijaba> kirkland: so we did not make any progress since the support provided n hardy, right.
[16:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Iso testing
[16:27] <kirkland> nijaba: not that i'm aware
[16:28] <kirkland> nijaba: i have had almost zero cycles to devote iscsi
[16:28] <nijaba> kirkland: np, just wanted to be sure`
[16:28] <mathiaz> so iso candidates for RC have been published
[16:29] <mathiaz> and testing them is welcomed
[16:29] <mathiaz> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[16:29] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[16:29] <mathiaz> this is the place where we track our results
[16:29] <nijaba> mathiaz: I've added a couple test cases for JeOS/F4
[16:29] <mathiaz> test cases have been updated
[16:29] <mathiaz> nijaba: when?
[16:30] <nijaba> mathiaz: last week
[16:30] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok - they've been added to the tracker now
[16:30] <nijaba> mathiaz: yes they have
[16:30] <mathiaz> we have 14 test cases to cover for 2 isos
[16:31] <mathiaz> I've got some more testing scenarios, especially related to raid installation
[16:31] <mathiaz> as of now I was only able to do one raid installation that was successful (raid1 on i386)
[16:31] <mathiaz> all the others have failed
[16:32] <mathiaz> so if someone could also do some test on raid install that would be helpful
[16:32] <sommer> I should have some time to do raid on i386
[16:33] <mathiaz> sommer: try to do a manual install of raid0 and raid5 then
[16:33] <sommer> sure
[16:33] <mathiaz> sommer: if you have enough hd for raid5 of course
[16:33] <sommer> mathiaz: I think I should
[16:33] <mathiaz> I'm doing all my tests with vms
[16:34] <mathiaz> sommer: I'd like to know if this is an issue with virtualization or with the installer
[16:34] <kirkland> mathiaz: ?
[16:34] <kirkland> mathiaz: raid installs are failing?
[16:34] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes - automated raid installs are failing
[16:34] <soren> .(
[16:34] <kirkland> mathiaz: and manual raid installs?
[16:35] <mathiaz> kirkland: amd64 fails because the partitions are wrong (while i386 with the same setup works)
[16:35]  * kirkland downloading iso's now
[16:35] <mathiaz> kirkland: haven't tried manual raid installs
[16:35] <mathiaz> testing manual raid install would be helpful
[16:36] <kirkland> i'm on it
[16:36] <mathiaz> kirkland: and then i386 raid0 and raid5 get the installer stuck
[16:36] <mathiaz> anyway - that's what I had to say wrt to iso testing.
[16:37] <mathiaz> of course if you have hardware available testing a bare-bone install is welcome (making sure the hw is correctly supported)
[16:37] <kirkland> my tests will be on vm's
[16:37] <kirkland> mathiaz: but i'll test manual raid on amd64
[16:37] <kirkland> mathiaz: raid1, raid0, raid5
[16:37] <mathiaz> kirkland: awesome - thanks.
[16:37] <mathiaz> kirkland: let me know of the results.
[16:37] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] RC bugs
[16:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  RC bugs
[16:37] <mathiaz> anyone discovered Release Critical bugs?
[16:38] <Koon> nope
[16:39] <mathiaz> ok - keep searching then ;)
[16:39] <Koon> I will.
[16:39] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] ubuntu-server-devel channel
[16:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-server-devel channel
[16:39] <mathiaz> nijaba: ^^
[16:40] <mathiaz> seems that traffic is increasing in #ubuntu-server
[16:40] <nijaba> I was wondering if now would be a good time to create a separate server channel for devel
[16:40] <mathiaz> and it may be worth creating a -devel channel for ubuntu-server
[16:40] <mathiaz> what do people think about this?
[16:40] <nijaba> I feel sorry for user asking for help when we are chatting about devel and not answering their question
[16:40] <kirkland> hmm....
[16:41] <ScottK> nijaba: Alternatively they'd just get silence.
[16:41] <nijaba> at the same time it may divide our community
[16:41] <nijaba> ScottK: right...
[16:41] <ScottK> I think the problem isn't needing a different channel, but needing more people willing to answer support questions.
[16:41] <kirkland> i'd say move that particular conversation to #ubuntu-devel, if it's a problem
[16:41] <nealmcb> I don't notice an overload of traffic, and with server users they often are interested in some devel topics also. but I could go either way
[16:41] <ScottK> Personally, if you split the channel, I'd just be on -devel
[16:41] <kirkland> my gut reaction is to wince at another irc channel
[16:42] <nijaba> ok, bad idea then
[16:42] <kirkland> i agree with ScottK's note that "answering support questions" is a real issue
[16:42]  * nealmcb nods
[16:42] <sommer> seems like they pick up as release date gets closer
[16:43] <nijaba> most of us do, when we can, but it is not always the highest prio
[16:43] <kirkland> nijaba: right... and too many questions are flamebait and traps
[16:43]  * nealmcb has been working around the clock on electionaudits so has been less helpful recently
[16:44] <kirkland> nijaba: seems that some people just want to the opportunity to tell a bunch of linux developers, "Fine, I'm going back to Windows/Mac/BSD"
[16:44] <ScottK> I find it odd they think that would bother us.
[16:44] <nijaba> kirkland: I'm not talking about *these*
[16:44] <kirkland> nijaba: ;-)
[16:45] <mathiaz> nijaba: IIUC your main concert is that questions are not answered while conversation is ongoing
[16:45] <mathiaz> nijaba: and that seems rude to the person asking for help
[16:45] <Koon> mathiaz: yep
[16:45] <nijaba> yes, gives me a strange feeling to ignore these guys
[16:45] <kirkland> nijaba: i can see that....
[16:46] <Koon> though that strange feeling migt not be worth risking more splitting of an already-thin community
[16:46] <nijaba> Koon: point fully taken
[16:47] <Koon> but I'm balanced.
[16:47] <nealmcb> yeah, it is easier when it is just totally silent and they can reread the topic :/
[16:47] <mathiaz> nijaba: one option would be to give a more generic answer to eh user
[16:47] <mathiaz> !volunter
[16:47] <ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about volunter
[16:47] <mathiaz> !volunteer
[16:47] <ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about volunteer
[16:47] <mathiaz> hm - there is such an answer in ubotu
[16:48] <mathiaz> I don't remember the correct key though
[16:48] <mathiaz> !patience
[16:48] <ubottu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[16:48] <nealmcb> :)
[16:48] <ScottK> Of course that's not entirely accurate.  Not all are volunteers.
[16:48] <ScottK> Are any of the Canonical server team tasked with answering support questions in #ubuntu-server?
[16:49] <sommer> IRC volunteers... sort of :)
[16:49] <soren> And answer are also always available. We're just keeping them secret.
[16:49] <nealmcb> right - if it noted that user support is on a volunteer basis that might be clearer
[16:49] <ScottK> Right.  Because our jobs depend on keeping the secrets ;-)
[16:49] <nealmcb> lol
[16:49] <kirkland> ScottK: Canonical sells support
[16:49] <ScottK> kirkland: I understand that.
[16:50] <kirkland> ScottK: none of us are tasked as community support volunteers
[16:50] <kirkland> ScottK: we do what we can, when we can to help
[16:50] <ScottK> As I'd expected, but I wanted to actually know rather than guess.
[16:50] <nijaba> but I do spend, as well of others, spend a lot of personal time one the chan
[16:50] <ScottK> Agreed.
[16:51] <mathiaz> all right -so it seems that creating another -devel channel is not really a good solution to the stated problem
[16:51] <nealmcb> so a factoid to reflect that might help - giving alternatives etc
[16:51] <nijaba> nealmcb: sounds like a good plan
[16:51] <mathiaz> isn't the topic already good on that point?
[16:52] <kirkland> a little verbose, if anything ;-)
[16:52] <nijaba> mathiaz: lots do not even read it, a factoid is more visible
[16:53] <mathiaz> kirkland: right - the second link to asking smart question may be removed
[16:53] <Koon> -ChanServ- [#ubuntu-server] Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and, sometimes, support)
[16:53] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on
[16:54] <mathiaz> I guess that the final outcome of this discussion is that we won't create a separate -devel channel
[16:54] <nijaba> yep
[16:54] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] UDS topics
[16:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS topics
[16:54] <kirkland> mathiaz: are you calling for topics?
[16:54] <mathiaz> Altought we are *all* testing the intrepid isos, some of us may have ideas for the next release cycle
[16:55] <mathiaz> If so, please add them to the IdeaPool from the server team wiki pages
[16:55] <nealmcb> hmmm - irc client died right after my last comment....
[16:55] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/IdeaPool
[16:56] <mathiaz> That page will be used as input for the UDS topics
[16:56] <mathiaz> dendrobates: will be watching this page closely.
[16:57] <mathiaz> dendrobates: anything else to add wrt to UDS topics?
[16:57] <dendrobates> mathiaz: not at this time.
[16:58] <mathiaz> okidoki
[16:58] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
[16:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
[16:58] <mathiaz> anything else to add?
[16:58] <mathiaz> speak up now
[16:58] <zul> blub blub
[16:59] <mathiaz> zul: is that a program you want to package for jaunty?
[17:00] <sommer> heh
[17:00] <zul> mathiaz: yes its a replacement for frozen bubble
[17:00] <kirkland> it better be *damn* good, if it's to replace FB
[17:00] <nijaba> zul: under the blub licence?  not sure it is GPL friendly
[17:00] <mathiaz> zul: you mean - you plan to remove frozen bubble from the archive in jaunty?
[17:01]  * kirkland draws his slingshot back........
[17:01] <zul> what? I dont want to be public enemy number 1
[17:01] <mathiaz> zul: that needs to be discussed at uds
[17:01] <mathiaz> zul: at least one slot, if not a whole day
[17:01]  * nijaba loading mentos
[17:01] <zul> heh
[17:01] <mathiaz> zul: you've opened a can of worms...
[17:02] <zul> didnt mean to ;(
[17:02] <mathiaz> all right - anything else to add?
[17:03] <mathiaz> nope
[17:03] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:03] <mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
[17:03] <nijaba> +1.02
[17:04] <zul> same bat channel?
[17:04] <sommer> o//
[17:04] <nealmcb> nijaba: sorry - that is an overvote....
[17:04] <ScottK> Is there going to be anything to meet about this time next week?
[17:04] <mathiaz> ScottK: well - I don't know.
[17:04] <nijaba> nealmcb: great, just testing your auditing algo
[17:04] <nealmcb> :)
[17:04] <mathiaz> ScottK: it may only a be a 5 minutes meeting.
[17:05] <ScottK> mathiaz: If we're going anything except ISO testing next week, we're in bug trouble.
[17:05] <sommer> there might be more jaunty ideas
[17:05] <mathiaz> ScottK: let's hope not. We'll meet next week to find out ;)
[17:05] <nijaba> dumrolls...
[17:06] <nijaba> drumrolls too
[17:06] <mathiaz> all right - so see you all next week, here, same time, same date.
[17:06] <mathiaz> and happy iso testing!
[17:07] <mathiaz> #endmeeting