Ubuntu Wiki

Agenda

Items we will be discussing:

• Review ACTION points from previous meeting.

• Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.

• Fixing libmysqlclient-dev package (MySQL 5.1) in jaunty - transition of libmysqlclient library.

• WebArchitecture - We (ubuntu-eu) have problems setting up a simple web server - problem exposed, solution proposed, discussion welcomed (Yann Hamon)

• Ubuntu Server on NAS devices : what level of support is expected, and what needs to be done to make this happen? Emmet Hikory

• Open Discussion.
• Agree on next meeting date and time.

Minutes

Agree on next meeting date and time

Next meeting will be on Tuesday, January 20th at 16:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

Log

[16:07] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:07] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:07. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:07] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:07] <nijaba> o/
[16:07] <sommer> o//
[16:07] <persia> \o
[16:07] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:07] <ScottK-desktop> o/
[16:07] <jdstrand> o/
[16:08] <MianoSM> o/
[16:08] <mathiaz> Last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090106
[16:08] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Screen Profiles
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Screen Profiles
[16:08] <mathiaz> kirkland: ^^?
[16:08] <zul> hello
[16:08] <kirkland> mathiaz: yessir!
[16:08] <kirkland> mathiaz: it's totally awesome now
[16:08] <adityag> here in for member, i am sorry because i am late, i just came to know about it
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: uploaded to universe for jaunty
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: in my ppa for hardy/intrepid
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: nijaba has done some excellent work on the configurator
[16:09]  * nijaba blushes
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: it's very fast to start up now (i'm caching the updates-available information)
[16:09] <mathiaz> kirkland: so what's up with the taskbar ?
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: i plan to blog about it today
[16:10] <kirkland> mathiaz: clarify the question?
[16:10] <adityag> any one there  ?? in here for the first time
[16:10] <mathiaz> kirkland: awesome.
[16:10] <mathiaz> kirkland: last time we talked about implemented a taskbar in screen
[16:11] <mathiaz> kirkland: is this something still being worked on? implemented?
[16:11] <kirkland> mathiaz: it currently looks like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/Screenshot.png
[16:11] <kirkland> mathiaz: the 3-color "\o/" is our approximation of the spirit of the Ubuntu logo (also, it's 1/3 of the circle of friends)
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: Ubuntu 8.10 is pulled from the lsb-release information
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: there are 66 updates available for my system right now
[16:12] <nijaba> mathiaz: you really should try it out, sounds like you have not yet
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: my system load is 0.40
[16:12] <mathiaz> kirkland: right. There is an action about a taskbar from last week minutes.
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: I have 2 CPUs, currently operating at 800MHz
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: and 4G of RAM available
[16:12] <mathiaz> kirkland: having a way to load applets into the taskbar
[16:12] <ScottK-desktop> kirkland: Congratulations on core-dev BTW.
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: and the time/date
[16:13] <kirkland> ScottK-desktop: thanks for your support!  \o/
[16:13] <kirkland> mathiaz: that's a very difficult item;  i don't plan on implementing that any time soon
[16:13] <kirkland> mathiaz: screen-profiles is quite usuable now, and provides a lot of good information
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'd like to focus now on finding/fixing bugs
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: and improving the usuability
[16:14] <mathiaz> kirkland: great.
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm going to contact the Desktop User Experience team
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: and ask them if they can give this a look over
[16:14] <mathiaz> anything else to add regarding screen-profiles?
[16:14] <mathiaz> it seems that was is required now is more testing
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: right
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: and then ....
[16:15] <mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to write a blog post about screen-profile
[16:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to write a blog post about screen-profile
[16:15] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think we should revisit this in 2-3 weeks, and consider if the ubuntu screenrc should be the system default /etc/screenrc
[16:15] <kirkland> mathiaz: so that any user who runs screen gets this magic
[16:15] <kirkland> mathiaz: in Ubuntu
[16:16] <mathiaz> kirkland: seems like an idea to discuss.
[16:16] <mathiaz> let's move on.
[16:16] <kirkland> mathiaz: yes, and we need strong confidence of no breakage to do so, IMHO
[16:16] <jdstrand> kirkland: what about doing used/total for memory, rather than just total?
[16:16] <kirkland> jdstrand: i like that idea
[16:16] <kirkland> jdstrand: what about a percentage?
[16:17] <kirkland> jdstrand: i'd be interested in seeing how we can accomplish this in as few characters as possible
[16:17] <kirkland> jdstrand: I'm trying to stay within 80 columns
[16:17] <jdstrand> kirkland: I like that you give the total, and would be fine with a percentage as long as total was still there
[16:17] <kirkland> jdstrand: you see that we have a little more space
[16:17] <kirkland> jdstrand: k
[16:17] <jdstrand> kirkland: but, really, percentage is most important I think
[16:17] <mathiaz> kirkland: jdstrand: let's discuss the improvement somewhere else
[16:17] <jdstrand> (if you had to choose)
[16:17] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU for ebox
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU for ebox
[16:17] <jdstrand> np
[16:17] <mathiaz> sommer: ^^?
[16:17] <mathiaz> zul: ^^?
[16:18] <zul> uploaded this morning waiting for motu-sru
[16:18] <mathiaz> all the bugs have been filed/updated?
[16:18] <sommer> bugs filed for the needed patches
[16:18] <sommer> mathiaz: yeppers :)
[16:18] <mathiaz> and the motu-sru team is subscribed to all of them?
[16:19] <sommer> mathiaz: should be
[16:19]  * ScottK-desktop is pinging them right now.
[16:19] <ScottK-desktop> What bug?
[16:19] <mathiaz> sommer: excellent work!
[16:19] <sommer> ScottK-desktop: bug #273486
[16:19] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 273486 in ebox "Current eBox packages in intrepid don't work at all" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273486
[16:20] <sommer> bug #314606'
[16:20] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 314606 in ebox "ebox and libebox don't support Intrepid gconf version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/314606
[16:20] <sommer> and bug #255368
[16:20] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 255368 in ebox "ebox: Depends: libapache-authcookie-perl but it is not installable " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255368
[16:20] <mathiaz> great - thanks for the work sommer and zul
[16:21] <zul> np
[16:21] <sommer> np
[16:21] <ScottK-desktop> motu-sru is looking at them now.
[16:21] <mathiaz> That's all the ACTION left from last week meetings
[16:21] <mathiaz> anything else to add wrt to last week meeting?
[16:21] <sommer> ScottK-desktop: cool, thanks
[16:22] <mathiaz> allright. Let's move on then.
[16:22] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] libmysqlclient-dev package (MySQL 5.1) in jaunty
[16:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  libmysqlclient-dev package (MySQL 5.1) in jaunty
[16:22] <mathiaz> The current version of libmysqlclient15-dev in jaunty is provided by mysql 5.1.
[16:23] <mathiaz> Which is a transitional package.
[16:23] <mathiaz> As a result pkgs in main that build-depends on libmysqlclient15-dev don't build
[16:23] <mathiaz> ex: ooo
[16:23] <mathiaz> so the plan is
[16:24] <mathiaz> 1. upload a new version of mysql-dfsg-5.1 that doesn't build libmysqlclient15-dev transitional package
[16:24] <mathiaz> instead it would build libmysqlclient16-dev
[16:25] <mathiaz> mysql-server, mysql-client would also not be provided by mysql-5.1
[16:25] <mathiaz> and mysql-common would be renamed to mysql-common-5.1
[16:25] <zul> oh crap sorry about that
[16:25] <mathiaz> 2. upload a new version of mysql-dfsg-5.0 with a version of 5.1.30really5.0.75
[16:25] <persia> Why does it need libmysqlclient16-dev, if it's not going to have the transitional package: can't it just use libmysqlclient-dev ?
[16:26] <mathiaz> so that libmysqlclient15-dev, mysql-server, mysql-client and mysql-common are provided by mysql-5.0 again.
[16:26] <ScottK-desktop> persia: I think you want to provide a way to specifically build-dep on the 5.1 -dev
[16:26] <mathiaz> persia: the current 5.1 package from debian works like this:
[16:26] <mathiaz> persia: it provides a transitional pacakge libmysqlclient15-dev which depends on libmysqlclient-dev
[16:27] <mathiaz> persia: debian 5.1 doesn't have libmysqlclient16-dev
[16:27] <persia> ScottK-desktop, mysql-dfsg-5.0 doesn't provide "libmysqlclient-dev" as a package name, which is why I thought it might be useful to use the current Debian name.
[16:27] <mathiaz> however mysql-5.0 provides libmysqlclient15-dev (which provides a virtual package libmysqlclient-dev)
[16:27] <persia> mathiaz, Right.  I just don't understand the value of the new package, unless there's some other use to which libmysqlclient-dev is expected to be put.
[16:28] <persia> Ah, virtual packages.
[16:28] <persia> Right.  Nevermind.
[16:28] <jdstrand> mathiaz: is Debian planning to be able to have 5.1 and 5.0 in the archive at the same time?
[16:28] <mathiaz> right now in Debian there is only 1 version in mysql.
[16:28] <mathiaz> jdstrand: good question.
[16:28] <zul> i doubt it
[16:29] <ScottK-desktop> persia: Oh.  I thought it did.
[16:29] <mathiaz> jdstrand: considering that 5.1 in experimental provides a binary pkg libmysqlclient-dev, I don't think so.
[16:29] <jdstrand> if they do, this really sounds like something we'd want to collaborate on with them
[16:29] <persia> ScottK-desktop, as pointed out, it virtually does :)  We're both right.
[16:29] <ScottK-desktop> ;-)
[16:30] <jdstrand> mathiaz: if not, we'll need to make *sure* that everything upgrades ok when 5.1 in debian replaces 5.0
[16:30] <ScottK-desktop> jdstrand: Yes, but we've got two issues: Fix it now so OOo will build and Do it right/talk to Debian.
[16:30] <mathiaz> even if Debian doesn't plan to provide both packages, we - at least for jaunty - will provide both 5.1 and 5.0
[16:30] <mathiaz> one in main (currently 5.0) and one in universe (5.1)
[16:30] <mathiaz> universe (currently 5.1)
[16:30] <ScottK-desktop> Although Kubuntu has hopes of getting Amarok back in Main, so there may be bits of 5.1 that need to get promoted.
[16:31] <ScottK-desktop> They are still trying to figure out how small those bits can be.
[16:31] <mathiaz> so it seems that we'd have to provide libmysqlclient16-dev as a binary package from mysql-5.1
[16:32] <mathiaz> so my question is: what happens if both libmysqlclient15-dev and libmysqlclient16-dev provide a virtual package libmysqlclient-dev?
[16:32] <mathiaz> is this something that should be done^^?
[16:32] <ScottK-desktop> And as we've discussed before, we either need to get Akonadi moved to 5.1 or make sure all the needed bits are co-installable.
[16:32] <persia> It's acceptable, as long as they conflict.
[16:32] <mathiaz> or only one should provide libmysqlclient-dev
[16:32] <jdstrand> mathiaz: with your plan, what happens when Debian replaces 5.0 with 5.1 and we try to sync in a future version of Ubuntu? and when users go intrepid -> jaunty -> ...
[16:32] <mathiaz> persia: right. What should be the build-dep then?
[16:33] <mathiaz> should package build-dep on libmysqlclient-dev?
[16:33]  * jdstrand is worried about an even bigger delta
[16:33] <mathiaz> or on libmysqlclient{15,16}-dev?
[16:33] <persia> mathiaz, Whichever version is desired.  I'd recommend having libmysqlclient16-dev not provide libmysqlclient-dev for now.
[16:33] <persia> By not providing, packages won't get built against 5.1 by accident.
[16:34] <mathiaz> jdstrand: I don't know.
[16:34] <ScottK-desktop> Step 3 of the plan that mathiaz and I discussed last night was "Beg Debian to do an Epoch and get things back in sync versionwise."
[16:34] <mathiaz> persia: right. mysql-dfsg-5.1 should only provide packages that are new.
[16:35] <mathiaz> persia: and conflicts with necessary existing packages.
[16:35] <mathiaz> persia: but not replacing existing packages.
[16:36] <persia> mathiaz, Right.
[16:36] <mathiaz> allright - so to summarize:
[16:36] <persia> ScottK-desktop, may not need an epoch, depending on the Debian transition plan, and status at both jaunty release and jaunty+1 release.
[16:37] <mathiaz> 1. mysql-5.1: provides libmysqlclient16-dev
[16:37] <ScottK-desktop> Maybe
[16:37] <mathiaz> 2. mysql-5.0: version 5.1.30really5.0.75
[16:37] <mathiaz> I'll upload these after the meeting.
[16:38] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to upload mysql packages to fix libmysqlclient-dev package in jaunty.
[16:38] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to upload mysql packages to fix libmysqlclient-dev package in jaunty.
[16:38] <mathiaz> anything else to add on this specific subject?
[16:38] <zul> yep sorry about this
[16:38] <ScottK> mathiaz: Double check there aren't any other conflicting package names.
[16:39] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on.
[16:39] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] WebArchitecture
[16:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  WebArchitecture
[16:39] <mathiaz> yann hammon around?
[16:40] <nijaba> mathiaz: no yann2 around...
[16:40] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok.
[16:40] <mathiaz> let's move on.
[16:40] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server on NAS devices
[16:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server on NAS devices
[16:40] <mathiaz> persia: ^^?
[16:41] <persia> Yep.  I have some nice little ARM servers: hobbyist versions of the Buffalo consumer NAS devices.  I'd like to run Ubuntu on them.  Further, I'd like this to be reasonable for normal users.
[16:41] <persia> What level of support should I expect, and what can I do to make that be "full"?
[16:42] <zul> ergh..
[16:42] <zul> i dont think the server team is equipped to support NAS devices
[16:43] <persia> OK.  What's missing?
[16:43] <zul> manpower for one
[16:43] <persia> To do what?
[16:43] <mathiaz> persia: first step: are all the packages required for running a NAS device built on ARM?
[16:44] <mathiaz> persia: then - which services you'd provide? nfs/cifs?
[16:44] <persia> mathiaz, I think so.  I would be expecting to run a fairly standard Ubuntu Server base configuration.  FTBFS is something I'm happy to chase towards that goal.
[16:44] <mathiaz> persia: ssh/sftp/avahi?
[16:44] <mathiaz> persia: I think almost all the main component are there.
[16:45] <persia> Well, that's why I wanted to discuss it.  I'll personally mostly use ssh, but I suspect it's interesting in a wider sense for other services (for other people).
[16:45]  * ScottK could see a NAS task if we had a scalable way to list out tasks....
[16:45] <mathiaz> persia: the only touchy thing is the administrative interface
[16:45] <persia> How so?
[16:45] <mathiaz> persia: do we have a standard way to create an admin interface for non-geeky users?
[16:46] <ScottK> Sounds like a good Jaunty+1 spec topic to me.
[16:46] <persia> Wasn't there a framework involving lenses that was intended to do that?  Or does ebox do that?
[16:46] <mathiaz> ScottK: agreed.
[16:46] <nijaba> mathiaz: isn't that what ebox solves?
[16:46] <mathiaz> yes.
[16:47] <mathiaz> ebox could do the job. we'd have to test it.
[16:47] <persia> I can certainly add an agenda item to the next UDS, but I'd think that there's probably a light-weight solution that might be interesting in the meantime, without extra packages, etc.  I don't really mind a geeky interface.
[16:47] <mathiaz> it may need to be trimmed down to only provide the necessary components for a NAS device
[16:48] <persia> Are there services in a default server that shouldn't be run?
[16:48] <mathiaz> persia: the default install doesn't run any service listening on the network
[16:48] <persia> Just because they sell it as a NAS device doesn't mean it's not a general-purpose computer.
[16:48] <mathiaz> persia: not even ssh
[16:49] <persia> The default Server install doesn't?  Oh.  I thought it did.
[16:49] <nijaba> persia: no, it is proposed as a task
[16:49] <ScottK> persia: I'd say "Make it work as a command line managed NAS" is a good Jaunty goal and "Make it non-geek friendly" is a good Jaunty+1 goal
[16:50] <persia> ScottK, That seems completely reasonable to me.  What can I do to address the Jaunty goal?
[16:50] <mathiaz> persia: so IMO we should first make sure that the file services are working correctly on ARM
[16:50] <mathiaz> persia: that means making sure samba and nfs are working correclty
[16:50] <ScottK> mathiaz: I think this is a reasonable task for tasksel.
[16:50] <mathiaz> persia: as well as dhcp.
[16:50] <persia> mathiaz, Is that just a matter of pushing an ARM install through the already published testcases?
[16:50] <ScottK> That or a metapackage of some kind.
[16:51] <mathiaz> persia: right - there is a testcase for samba
[16:51] <mathiaz> tasksel already has a samba server tasks.
[16:52] <mathiaz> persia: how important is that the NAS device provides NFS?
[16:52] <persia> mathiaz, I don't care about NFS personally, although maybe someone does.
[16:52] <mathiaz> persia: IMO it's just a matter of testing.
[16:52] <persia> I've hardware, so I'll volunteer to run an ARM install of Server through the test cases: shall I just file bugs on anything that doesn't work?
[16:52] <mathiaz> persia: making sure that samba, ssh and dhcp are working with the ARM platform
[16:53] <mathiaz> persia: seems like a good plan to me.
[16:53] <ScottK> Would we want anything different in an arm-server kernel that it's worth the trouble to make/maintain it?
[16:53] <mathiaz> and as ScottK mentionned, tackling the admin interface could be done during the next cycle.
[16:53] <persia> While I'm willing to chase some of the bugs, should I expect assistance from others to get them closed?
[16:53] <mathiaz> even though ebox may fit the bill.
[16:54] <persia> ScottK, There's already about 6 flavours of ARM kernel: I think NAS-specific is probably a jaunty+1 thought.
[16:54] <ScottK> persia: As I'm pretty sure you know, NCommander has been doing a lot of portability work on armel.
[16:54] <ScottK> persia: OK.
[16:54] <ScottK> He could probably be encouraged to help.
[16:54] <persia> Yes, I've been seeing that, which is one of the reasons I brought this up.
[16:57] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on.
[16:57] <mathiaz> I won't run the Open discussion topic.
[16:57] <mathiaz> If someone wanted to add something, please edit the Meeting wiki page
[16:57] <mathiaz> so that we can discuss it next week.
[16:57] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:58] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:58] <mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
[16:58] <nijaba> +1
[16:58] <sommer> +2
[16:58] <ScottK> mathiaz: One quick think libdb4.3 died this week.
[16:58]  * ScottK waves at vorian who is working on the lidbd consolidation stuff.
[16:59] <mathiaz> ScottK: great. thanks for reporting that.
[16:59] <mathiaz> so see you all next week, same time, same place
[16:59] <mathiaz> and happy iso testing for Alpha3 - due this week!
[16:59] <mathiaz> #endmeeting