== Agenda ==

Items we will be discussing:

 * Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
 * Review progress made on the Roadmap.
 * Server tips - How to implement? - nijaba
 * Open Discussion.
 * Agree on next meeting date and time. 

== Minutes ==

## Use title4 (ie ==== ) for each section of the minutes
## Only topics discussed during the meetings should be put in the minutes.
## Status reporting is done via another channel.

==== Asterisk ====

jmdault reported that Debian had uploaded a new version of Asterisk to unstable: 1.6.2.0~dfsg~beta3. Whith the current version in Karmic being 1.4 mathiaz asked what were the reasons for updating to 1.6 in Karmic. The main reason is that 1.6 should be available in the next LTS release. There is a also a list of dependencies that should be pulled in Karmic before Asterisk 1.6 can be merged from unstable.

ACTION: Daviey to generate a list of packages to be updated for the asterisk stack

==== Server tips : implementation ====

nijaba asked what would be the best implementation for delivering [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/server-tips|ubuntu-server tips]] to the end user. After some discussions it was suggested to create an ubuntu-server-fortune package based on the fortune-debian-hints package integrated with the update-motd.d framework.

ACTION: Daviey to take a look at creating a package base on the fortune* package to include server tips.

==== Agree on next meeting date and time ====

Next meeting will be on Tuesday, August 11th at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

== Log ==
{{{
[16:02] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <nealmcb> o/
[16:02] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:03] <mathiaz> last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090728
[16:03] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU tracking on server-related packages
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU tracking on server-related packages
[16:04] <Daviey> \o/
[16:04] <mathiaz> so I talked to bdmurray
[16:05] <mathiaz> and I've got the script to generate a list of bugs that have been fixed
[16:05] <Daviey> This was a point i raised a few meetings ago.. where certain SRU releases that were reasonably crucial were taking possibly too long to hit the mirrors..  The idea was, should -server team either help or chase
[16:06] <mathiaz> Daviey: I don't remember exactly what your proposal was. However this topic was about making sure that bug fixed in the development version that are worthy are updated in stable releases
[16:07] <mathiaz> Daviey: the issue of doing the actual testing is another matter
[16:07] <mathiaz> I'll publish a weekly updated list of bugs that we can start reviewing in this weekly meeting
[16:07] <Daviey> ok
[16:08] <mathiaz> anything else on this topic?
[16:08] <mathiaz> nope - let's move on
[16:08] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Mysql 5.1 in karmic main
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mysql 5.1 in karmic main
[16:08] <Daviey> mathiaz: Well the actual script, does it just show packages the -server team care about.. or all SRU releases?
[16:09] <mathiaz> Daviey: only package relevant to -server
[16:09] <mathiaz> Daviey: these bugs are not yet on the SRU list
[16:09] <Daviey> great
[16:10] <mathiaz> so I've been working on getting MySQL 5.1 in main
[16:10] <mathiaz> zul filed the MIR
[16:10] <zul> indeed
[16:11] <mathiaz> the MIR team is working on the request
[16:11] <mathiaz> and I've been working on updating the package
[16:11] <mathiaz> so I expect Mysql 5.1 to be moved to main by this end of the week
[16:12] <mathiaz> anything else on this topic?
[16:13] <mathiaz> let's move on
[16:13] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Asterisk
[16:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Asterisk
[16:13] <mathiaz> jmdault: ^^?
[16:13] <jmdault> Debian put net packages last week
[16:13] <mathiaz> jmdault: any news?
[16:13] <jmdault> asterisk-1.6.2.0~dfsg~beta3
[16:14] <jmdault> this replaces the previous 1.6.0 version
[16:14] <mathiaz> jmdault: is it in a good state for karmic?
[16:15] <Daviey> I've sucessfully built asterisk-1.6.2 on karmic with not too much difficulty
[16:15] <jmdault> It looks good
[16:15] <mathiaz> Daviey: using the new debian packages?
[16:15] <Daviey> yah
[16:15] <Daviey> Well debian svn
[16:15] <Daviey> which is equal
[16:15] <jmdault> I had some problems with dahdi 2.0-rc versions, some kernel panics
[16:16] <mathiaz> Could you remind me why 1.6.2 should be used instead of the current version in karmic?
[16:16] <jmdault> I tried dahdi 2.0 final, and it fixes all problems
[16:16] <jmdault> mathiaz: current version in Karmic is 1.4.21
[16:16] <jmdault> works with the old zaptel drivers, which are obsolete
[16:17] <jmdault> the current 1.4 series is 1.4.26
[16:17] <Daviey> Whilst 1.4 is still stable and maintained upstream, we really should look to get onto the 1.6 release prior next LTS IMO
[16:17] <Sam-I-Am> i'd agree in seeing 1.6 in the next LTS... so its not really old when they deprecate 1.4
[16:17] <jmdault> We have to switch to dahdi drivers
[16:17] <jmdault> That's the important thing
[16:17] <jmdault> =)
[16:18] <mathiaz> so IIUC the main argument is that we should have 1.6 in the next LTS and it already is available from debian unstable
[16:18] <Daviey> Now dahdi has been out a while.. i can't see too many issues.  Third party FXO cards drivers seem to work nicely now.
[16:19] <jmdault> Only problem with 1.6 is that Debian haven't packaged the addons yet
[16:19] <Daviey> Is it a concern having a zaptel to dahdi migration script as part of upgrade?  It not too much to do it manually, but inversely - should we try and automate it
[16:19] <Daviey> perhaps too much work.
[16:19] <jmdault> so no mysql or mp3 support
[16:19] <jmdault> but it's in svn
[16:19] <jmdault> so packageable
[16:20] <jmdault> Daviey: migration from 1.4 to 1.6 is not straightforward, as the syntax has changed a lot
[16:20] <mathiaz> jmdault: right - let's focus first on merging the pacakge from debian
[16:20] <Daviey> jmdault: "a lot".. not sure that i fully agree there.. 1.2 -> 1.4 was lots
[16:21] <jmdault> Daviey: do you think you could come up with migration scripts?
[16:21] <jmdault> and support them? ;-)
[16:22] <Daviey> jmdault: The migration aspect i was talking about was zaptel to dahdi
[16:22] <Daviey> nah :)
[16:22] <mathiaz> ok - so to summarize:
[16:22] <mathiaz> astersik 1.6 should be merged from unstable into karmic
[16:23] <mathiaz> the diff doesn't seem to big
[16:23] <mathiaz> the diff doesn't seem too big
[16:23] <Daviey> There is one issue..  we will need to merge pwlib aswell
[16:24] <mathiaz> Daviey: pwlib? I don't see it as a package in debian
[16:24] <jmdault> there's a whole stack we should merge
[16:24]  * nealmcb wishes projects didn't change syntax without easy migration strategies in place
[16:24] <mathiaz> Daviey: what's the actual name?
[16:24] <mathiaz> jmdault: do you have a list of packages that should be merged?
[16:24] <jmdault> Here is a list for 1.4:
[16:24] <jmdault> https://launchpad.net/~revolution-linux/+archive/asterisk
[16:25] <jmdault> I don't know yet which ones will work on 1.6
[16:25] <Daviey> openh323 won't build on karmic unless pwlib is is merged
[16:25] <Daviey> openh323 is a build dep (of choice) of asterisk
[16:26] <Daviey> other than that.. it's out of the box rebuild
[16:26] <mathiaz> ok - so to move on it seems that we first need to come up with a list of all the packages that need to be updated/merged from debian
[16:26] <mathiaz> could someone generate such a list and put it a wiki page?
[16:26] <Daviey> I'm happy to, unless jmdault wants to :)
[16:27] <jmdault> Daviey: go ahead =)
[16:27] <mathiaz> [ACTION] Daviey to generate a list of packages to be updated for the asterisk stack
[16:27] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to generate a list of packages to be updated for the asterisk stack
[16:27] <mathiaz> anything else on this topic?
[16:27] <Daviey> slight other note.. i did speak with debian-voip about dkms.. they are not against the idea.. but tbh, they weren't overally familair with the pros/cons
[16:27] <jmdault> Daviey: I've spent the last week with dahdi issues.
[16:28] <Daviey> jmdault: :(
[16:28] <jmdault> Daviey: but dahdi issues have been resolved with the 2.0 final
[16:28] <Daviey> handy.
[16:28] <jmdault> Daviey: Debian has 2.0 rc3 or rc5
[16:28] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on
[16:28] <Daviey> jmdault: They are aware of the new release.
[16:29] <mathiaz> is there anything else related to last week minutes?
[16:29] <jmdault> Daviey: who did you talk to?
[16:29] <Daviey> jmdault: I'll grab you during the week.
[16:29] <Daviey>  / after meeting
[16:29] <jmdault> ok
[16:29] <mathiaz> that's all I had from last week minutes
[16:30] <mathiaz> Let's move on to the next point in the agenda:
[16:30] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server tips - How to implement?
[16:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server tips - How to implement?
[16:30] <mathiaz> nijaba: ^^?
[16:30] <nijaba> so we now have a list of potential tips
[16:30] <nijaba> I am thinking into turning them into a fortune file
[16:30] <Sam-I-Am> do you have a link to them?
[16:30] <nijaba> package them
[16:30] <Daviey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/server-tips
[16:31] <nijaba> and then change motd so that it call "fortune /path/to/the/file"
[16:31] <kirkland> nijaba: excuse my ignorance...  pam already supports a fortune file?
[16:31] <kirkland> nijaba: or where would you put this fortune call?
[16:31] <kirkland> nijaba: i was going to suggest putting it in /etc/update-motd.d ;-)
[16:31] <Sam-I-Am> since tips would likely get added/updated on an ongoing basis between releases, would newer versions of the package get distributed with usual updates?
[16:32] <nijaba> kirkland: well, it is really to bring up this kind of question that I wanted to have this topic here
[16:32] <kirkland> nijaba: fair enough
[16:32] <jpds> kirkland: ~/.bashrc ?
[16:32] <Daviey> would it be out of bounds, to have it retrieve a list via http?
[16:32] <nijaba> kirkland: kirkland: update-motd.d sound good to me
[16:32] <kirkland> jpds: not bashrc
[16:32] <kirkland> jpds: too many other shells in use
[16:32] <mathiaz> Daviey: some systems don't have access to the internet
[16:33] <nijaba> Daviey: yes, lots of servers do not have http access
[16:33] <Daviey> jpds: if anywhere, surely /etc/bash.bashrc for systemwide?
[16:33] <mathiaz> Daviey: and it would slow down the login process
[16:33] <kirkland> Daviey: that would have to be configurable, at the very least
[16:33] <Sam-I-Am> Daviey: thats why i was thinking during updates... the machine would have internet access for that usually... or access to an internal mirror.
[16:33] <Daviey> mathiaz: cached.. not retrieve on login
[16:33] <kirkland> i think we just merge and release the tips like any other package
[16:33] <Daviey> ok
[16:33] <kirkland> we should be very aggressive about gathering tips up to beta
[16:34] <kirkland> and very agressive about reviewing them thereafter
[16:34] <Sam-I-Am> what kind of submission/review process would we have?
[16:34] <Sam-I-Am> suggestion box + commit by ubuntu-server folks?
[16:34] <nijaba> Sam-I-Am: published and reviewed on the mentioned wiki page
[16:34] <nijaba> Sam-I-Am: a basic set of rules are availabel at the top
[16:35] <kirkland> it would help if the sponsor/upload would happen in a large batch
[16:35] <kirkland> with the submission/review being handled more atomically, more frequently than the upload to the archive
[16:35] <nijaba> kirkland: not sure I understand your point
[16:35] <nijaba> kirkland: ah, ok
[16:35] <kirkland> nijaba: such that we don't upload one new package, version bump, per fortune added
[16:35] <nijaba> right
[16:35] <kirkland> nijaba: we add 50 at a time or something
[16:36] <Sam-I-Am> maybe a monthly package version roll?
[16:36] <Daviey> sounds sensible
[16:36] <kirkland> nijaba: say once or twice per week, up to beta
[16:36] <nijaba> kirkland: I would be surprised if we reach 50 soon
[16:36] <Daviey> well we could all certainly throw 5 in a week, i imagine.
[16:36] <kirkland> nijaba: what's the submission process currently?
[16:36] <kirkland> nijaba: and what's your target number of fortunes?
[16:37] <nijaba> publish it on the wiki, collective review just before string freeze here
[16:37] <Sam-I-Am> would this be a default package?  like... what happens if someone decides to replace the motd/fortune with their own.
[16:37] <nijaba> Sam-I-Am: they can modify the update-motd.d script to tehir leisure
[16:37] <Daviey> nijaba: Then we really should hammer for translations..
[16:38] <nijaba> Daviey: right
[16:38] <nijaba> any volunteer to create the base package?
[16:38] <Daviey> nijaba: it's your pet project, don't you want it? :)
[16:39] <nijaba> kirkland: once the base package is done, can you do the motd?
[16:39] <kirkland> nijaba: try using "quickly"
[16:39] <kirkland> nijaba: rickspencer just demo'd it to me, it's awesome :-)
[16:39] <kirkland> nijaba: to create the packaging, i thought that's what he just showed me....
[16:39] <nijaba> Daviey: yes, but (a) I am not a good packager (b) have no upload rights (c) is an easy one for anyone that want's to have a first package
[16:39]  * kirkland might be confused
[16:40] <Sam-I-Am> couldnt you more or less take the existing fortune package and change the fortune contents?
[16:40] <nijaba> Sam-I-Am: well, no, I want a separate package for the ubuntu specific tips
[16:40] <nijaba> Sam-I-Am: so that it is more granular to update
[16:40] <kirkland> nijaba: fortunes-ubuntu ?
[16:41] <Daviey> fortunes-ubuntu-en
[16:41] <kirkland> nijaba: i like Sam-I-Am's ide
[16:41] <kirkland> idea
[16:41] <Sam-I-Am> or alternatively just add a server tips option to the package
[16:41] <nijaba> kirkland: of modifying the existing fortune package?
[16:41] <Daviey> well if nobody else wants to do it, /me throws his hand in the air o/
[16:42] <kirkland> nijaba: clone something like fortunes-debian-hints
[16:42] <Sam-I-Am> yeah
[16:42]  * kirkland high fives Daviey 
[16:42] <nijaba> kirkland: ah, yes, that's exactly what i think needs to be done
[16:42] <nijaba> Daviey: great!
[16:42] <Daviey> it would be  /nice/ to improve the submisson process
[16:42] <Sam-I-Am> would there be a script to convert approved hints into the package file format?
[16:42] <Daviey> i mean, anyone can add one right now
[16:43] <Sam-I-Am> or just commit a text file...
[16:43] <mathiaz> ok - sounds like we have  a plan
[16:43] <Daviey> perhaps a submission is a LP bug?
[16:43] <nijaba> kirkland: would you be willing to help for the update-motd.d part?
[16:43] <kirkland> nijaba: sure
[16:43] <nijaba> kirkland: thanks :)
[16:43] <kirkland> nijaba: it's a one liner in the packaging
[16:43] <nijaba> kirkland: I bet
[16:44] <kirkland> we should discuss, though, where in the motd it should go
[16:44] <kirkland> 00-header  50-landscape-sysinfo  90-updates-available  91-release_upgrade  99-reboot-required
[16:44] <kirkland> those are ordered
[16:44] <mathiaz> [ACTION] Daviey to take a look at creating a package base on the fortune* package to include server tips.
[16:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to take a look at creating a package base on the fortune* package to include server tips.
[16:44] <mathiaz> anything else to add on this topic?
[16:44] <kirkland> i suggest somewhere before 90
[16:44] <kirkland> ie, leave the updates available, release upgrade available, and reboot required at the very end
[16:44]  * nijaba votes for 60-fortunes-ubuntu
[16:45] <Daviey> mathiaz: streamlining submisson process.. currently adding to the wiki won't scale to a few hundred tips
[16:45] <Daviey> IMO
[16:45] <Daviey> and approval etc.
[16:45] <mathiaz> Daviey: sure. We'll discuss that issue once the problem will arise
[16:45] <kirkland> Daviey: somewhere after landscape seems reasonable
[16:45] <nijaba> Daviey: once we have a package/project on lp, we can certainly use bugs
[16:45] <mathiaz> Daviey: but yes. The current process may not scale.
[16:45] <Sam-I-Am> i'd say closer to the bottom so it doesnt disappear with the normal stuff
[16:45] <Daviey> ok
[16:46]  * Daviey satisfied
[16:46] <mathiaz> anything else to add on this topic?
[16:47] <mathiaz> nope - let's move on
[16:47] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
[16:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
[16:47] <mathiaz> anything else to add/discuss/propose/comment on?
[16:47] <Sam-I-Am> mathiaz: got a question about involvement with slapd
[16:48] <Sam-I-Am> mathiaz: i'm the one who's bugging you on email about getting involved... and the process for packaging/merging
[16:48] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: I've received your message
[16:48] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: right now in the ball is in the Debian maintainer camp
[16:48] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: I'll be talking to slangasek tomorrow about the work on cn=config and slapd-cfg
[16:48] <Sam-I-Am> ok
[16:49] <Sam-I-Am> so the ubuntu specific patches are maintained on LP?
[16:49] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: the code is on LP and there is a TODO file in the src tre
[16:49] <mathiaz> tree
[16:49] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: Server tips - How to implement?
[16:49] <Sam-I-Am> ok... trying to make sense of it all.
[16:49] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathiaz/+junk/slapd-scripts-upstream
[16:50] <Sam-I-Am> i read through your stuff on there
[16:50] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: you mean ubuntu patches to slapd?
[16:50] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: they're not maintained in LP - they're part of the ubuntu package
[16:50] <Sam-I-Am> oh yeah... that part... how the whole debian->merge->ubuntu->add ubuntu patches->release bit works
[16:51] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: that may take some time to explain
[16:51] <Sam-I-Am> ha, figured :)
[16:51] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: but I basically work from the pkg-openldap-maintainer svn tree
[16:52] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: and merge stuff from there
[16:52] <Sam-I-Am> thats the alioth svn?
[16:52] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: yes
[16:52] <Sam-I-Am> where are the patches specific to ubuntu stored?
[16:53] <Sam-I-Am> like... cn=config
[16:53] <Sam-I-Am> and nssov
[16:53] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: in the ubuntu packages itself
[16:53] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: there isn't a public branch for it
[16:53] <Sam-I-Am> ahh ok, that explains the missing piece
[16:53] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: locally I'm using a bzr loom to handle the different patches
[16:53] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: however I need to check if I could push the bzr looms to LP
[16:53] <Sam-I-Am> ok
[16:53] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: I don't think it works yet
[16:54] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: if you wanna contribute patches to ubuntu, I'd suggest to branch lp:ubuntu/karmic/openldap
[16:54] <mathiaz> and then submit the branch for review in LP
[16:54] <Sam-I-Am> ok
[16:55] <mathiaz> anything else to add?
[16:55] <Sam-I-Am> although some of this stuff needs to get tossed into debian...
[16:55] <Sam-I-Am> its different for me dealing with two slightly different distros
[16:55] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: yes - development in ubuntu will continue
[16:55] <Daviey> next?
[16:56] <mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: right - but I'm working closely with the debian maitnainer
[16:56] <mathiaz> Daviey: sure
[16:56] <Daviey> Default Apache homepage.. Does anyone else think the default we are shipping, "It Works!" isn't as slick as some other distros which have pretty defaults?
[16:56] <Sam-I-Am> cool, thanks
[16:56] <mathiaz> Daviey: this has been discussed multiple times so far
[16:56] <Daviey> i must have missed this :)
[16:57] <kirkland> mathiaz: https://launchpad.net/bugs/89364
[16:57] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 89364 in apache2 "Apache2 default site contains only the words "It works!"" [Medium,Fix released]
[16:57] <mathiaz> Daviey: see the bug above for the whole discussion
[16:57] <mathiaz> we're almost out of time for this meeting
[16:58] <mathiaz> Daviey: so I'd rather not start a discussion on this now
[16:58] <Daviey> ok
[16:58] <mathiaz> Daviey: if you have new arguments - add them to the bug.
[16:58] <mathiaz> anything else to add before we wrap up?
[16:58] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:58] <mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
[16:59] <Sam-I-Am> sounds good
[16:59] <jmdault> great
[16:59] <mathiaz> great then
[16:59] <mathiaz> see you all next week, same time, same place
[16:59] <mathiaz> thanks
[17:00] <Sam-I-Am> seeya
[17:00] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
}}}