Technical_2006-03-14
09:00 Keybuk ok 09:00 Keybuk by my clock, it is now 8pm 09:00 GFDL ok === crimsun [i=nobody@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:00 Cached So we just get to watch them have all the fun? 09:00 Keybuk sabdfl and mdz are aware today, so I'm driving 09:00 Keybuk mjg59 is here, so we are quorate 09:00 mjg59 s/aware/away/ === zeus [n=zeus@Duryard-12.ex.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:00 Keybuk uh, yes 09:00 Keybuk I didn't say my driving was any good :) 09:00 raphink yes it's o'clock now 09:00 Keybuk IMPORTANT NOTE 09:00 Keybuk THIS IS NOT A MEETING TO DISCUSS THE DAPPER DELAY 09:01 mjg59 Ok. There's a lot on the agenda. What order are we going to take this in? 09:01 Keybuk If you wanted to attend those meetings, you missed them, sorry; read the IRC logs and posted summaries to find out what happened 09:01 Keybuk We'll be going down the usual TB agenda, and if your hot topic isn't on there ... *now* ... please wait until the end of the meeting 09:01 ogra wow, sladen owns the agenda 09:01 Keybuk mjg59: top-down I guess 09:01 raphink hehe 09:01 Keybuk unless there is anyone here who has an agenda item and needs to make a fast exit? 09:02 Kamion I'd like to get away soon, but I'm early on the agenda anyway 09:02 Keybuk Kamion: let's do you first then, as I think we have a few candiates today === Metaltron [n=Metaltro@66.81.225.240] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === S3Indiana [n=Ken@207.67.194.2] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:02 Keybuk floor is yours 09:02 ogra i think the first topic is a no brainer "Should we produce new installer and CD images for this [WWW] serious installer vulnerability? At present, users installing Breezy must make sure to upgrade from 09:02 Kamion -security before adding any other local users, which I think will result in a number of vulnerable systems in practice. On the other hand, it's not as if we can rev shipit CDs at this point." 09:02 Kamion link being http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-262-1, in case anyone somehow managed to miss it 09:03 GFDL Kamion, I wanted to ask that too in todays meeting === S3Indiana [n=Ken@207.67.194.2] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === SuperSack56 [n=Matt@hh-1-189.flexabit.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 09:03 Kamion so, we regained a fair bit of the enormously bad press from the vulnerability by doing a same-day fix 09:03 Kamion a number of people asked whether we'd be making updated images available === cyphase [n=cyphase@ppp-69-233-32-59.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:04 Keybuk Kamion: how much work would it be to make updated images? === anto9us [n=anthony@ipv6.butes.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:04 Keybuk I guess only -install matters? Kamion: if the CD images are just a rebuild, yes. If shipit CDs are going to 09:04 sladen continue being posted through the 6-week extension, yes. And if not, other people like cheeplinux and private pressers may benefit 09:04 Kamion I chatted briefly to mdz about it, and he said he didn't see a great need, but didn't really clarify why 09:04 ogra Kamion, would be helpful for iso downloaders, dapper is still not stable, so we'd save people from the bug === mjg59_ [n=mjg59@stop.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:04 Kamion I don't have a good reason not to other than "might be a fair bit of work", which I don't think really cuts it for a problem this serious 09:04 mjg59_ Network problems appear at the most inopportune moments 09:04 Kamion frankly 09:04 ogra the prob i see is an out-of-sync with shipit 09:04 Kamion Keybuk: yes, -live isn't affected 09:05 ogra since we wont press new ones 09:05 Kamion ogra: that's a downside, but we can label it clearly 09:05 Kamion Keybuk: there is a certain amount of faff involved 09:05 mjg59_ What is the shipit process? Are they actually pressed in large batches, or more on an on-demand basis? === fstat [n=wasd@ipa198.3.tellas.gr] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 09:05 Kamion if I'm going to fix it properly, we need to somehow get a rebuild of debian-installer into breezy-updates 09:05 pitti Kamion: can't we give the updated CD a new version number? Kamion: could you take the previous CD and just hack it with the fixed package, 09:05 sladen rather than building completely fresh CDs from the archive with all the other updates on them? 09:05 minghua I think releasing a CD with different name (5.10a?) also raise the awareness of said bug 09:05 minghua which is good 09:05 Kamion pitti: that's part of labelling 09:05 pitti Kamion: so that we don't change the original images? 09:05 pitti ah 09:05 Kamion sladen: that's bloody hard work in this case and I won't 09:05 ajmitch Kamion: would it solely be this fix included, or others from breezy-updates? 09:05 Keybuk my gut says that because the vulnerability is in the installer, there's more of a reason to update the CDs than the usual security reasons 09:06 Kamion er, breezy-security not breezy-updates I mean 09:06 Kamion ajmitch: breezy-security, and probably a roll-up of all fixes to date 09:06 fooishbar D 09:06 fooishbar (sorry.) 09:06 Kamion which may not be a bad thing anyway 09:06 sladen Kamion: bloody hard work --- rebuilding the whole CD, or just replacing the broken package? 09:06 mjg59_ Kamion: I think from a PR point of view, it would be advantageous to avoid shipping CD images we know to have a major problem 09:06 pitti I got several mails and IRC questions about when we'll release new CDs, so users expect it 09:06 mjg59_ The shipit problem is presumably insurmountable, so should just be ignored in this case 09:06 Kamion so, the hard bit is that the correct fix for this problem is spread over a lot of places 09:07 Kamion there are core problems in cdebconf, which I've fixed in d-i svn === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:07 Kamion fixing those also requires rebuilding debian-installer (to update the initrd) === Sabsirro [n=sabsirro@dslb-084-056-178-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting if we (or should I say Kamion) was to do this, we could put all securityfixes in to 09:07 dholbach such a release CD - but we didn't really do "security CDs" before, so I don't see the need why we should do it now === Sabsirro [n=sabsirro@dslb-084-056-178-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Surak [n=ubuntu@20132199223.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:07 mjg59 Keybuk: Should we do the more pressing stuff ahead of the candidate review? 09:07 Kamion initial-passwd-udeb should be fixed to make sure to clear out the password from the database 09:08 ogra dholbach, because the flaw is somewhat bigger ... 09:08 Kamion and prebaseconfig and installation-report need to be changed to make the logs world-unreadable 09:08 ogra and it might get us good press as well ... === chuckyp [n=histo@ppp-70-227-0-137.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Peace] 09:08 pitti dholbach: well, it leaves a trivial gaping root hole for peopel who install from CDs; it's the worst hole we had so far === claydoh [n=clay@65.99.187.241] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:08 Kamion dholbach: it's harder *not* to include everything else in breezy-security than it is just to include it 09:08 mjg59_ Kamion: Are there any especially awkward problems, or is it just something that takes time? 09:08 Keybuk My vote is to update the CDs, I think; it seems prudent sladen: fixes in lots of places, would have to establish a well-publicised source 09:09 Kamion repository somewhere to satisfy GPL etc. - less work to just punt through breezy-security frankly 09:09 dholbach Kamion: I see, then it'd make sense to discuss a security release. 09:09 ogra Keybuk++ my worry is that the new package set will be larger than the CD size, meaning that 09:09 sladen you have to drop something and the package set != to the previous Breezy install set 09:09 Kamion I realise we've not done a security CD before, and we hoped we wouldn't have to === jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === atie_ [n=atie@ubuntu/member/atie] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:09 Kamion which is why I brought it up here 09:09 Keybuk Kamion: we may end up doing them for dapper, given its long support cycle; it could be a good test === netzmeister [n=netzmeis@p549FA4F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:09 ogra yeah 09:10 pitti keybuk was faster with typing, my thought 09:10 Kamion mjg59_: figuring out how to get debian-installer into breezy-security will be the only really hard bit; I may have to talk to cprov and Kinnison for that 09:10 zeus what would be involved in a security cd release ? 09:10 Moox Dapper desktop will be suported during 3 years. Does this mean there will be only security updates on apps and no big update ? (eq gaim 1.5->2.0) 09:10 ogra zeus, mainly Kamion 09:10 Keybuk zeus: Kamion has just covered that === mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b %moox!*@*] by Seveas 09:10 Kamion zeus: rebuild CDs with packages from breezy + breezy-security, test lots and lots 09:10 Keybuk Moox: that is off topic; please see the Ubuntu wiki for the answer to that question 09:10 mjg59_ Kamion: Ok. If this is something that would potentially have to be done in the dapper timeframe /anyway/, it seems reasonable 09:11 mjg59 I think security images/scheduling/candidate review/everything else might be a plan === fooishbar [n=daniels@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 09:11 mjg59_ I think I'm with keybuk - it sounds like we ought to do this we're putting in a number of changes now to make this whole class of vulnerability 09:11 Kamion impossible in the future, but obviously I wouldn't like to entirely rule out the possibility of some other serious flaw 09:11 Seveas Kamion, if you need help testing the install CD - poke me 09:11 Keybuk Kamion: are you happy to do it? Feel free to rope in anyone else to help (including me, given I have all three archs) 09:11 mjg59_ Anyone have any violent objections? === heno [n=henrik@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:11 Kamion I'm happy to do the code changes, but given my other responsibilities I will only have time for cursory testing === apollo2011 [n=apollo20@69.37.100.203] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:12 pitti I'm happy to help out with testing 09:12 ogra me too it's more than a bit embarassing that the CDs going out from the factory still have 09:12 sladen that hole on them. We're lucky, if this was Microsoft, they would have to have destoried all the stocked CDs so far and start again 09:12 Kamion sladen: point taken; let me just check sizes === kbrooks [n=kbrooks@unaffiliated/kbrooks] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:12 kbrooks hi. 09:12 kbrooks ping. 09:12 Keybuk sladen: I'll talk to Jane about whether we can replace the ISO images they have 09:12 Kamion sladen: we have between 5MB and 33MB free on CD images, varying by architecture 09:12 mjg59_ sladen: That's not entirely true. Windows CDs with critical security flaws have been shipped before 09:12 Kamion in breezy 09:12 Keybuk iirc. ship-it operates in on-demand batches, so it may be possible to do it; I'm not sure when the breezy run stops though 09:12 mjg59_ (known critical security flaws) 09:12 kbrooks can someone summarize the meeting for me? 09:13 pitti Kamion: I can't remember any security update that changed the size of the packages *apart* from firefox === mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b %kbrooks!*@*] by Seveas === Xanadu [n=blah@wbs-196-2-109-177.wbs.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:13 Kamion I think we're probably safe - it seems unlikely that we would manage to suck up 5MB 09:13 Kamion kbrooks: logs are available on the web, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/ 09:13 Kamion irclogs/ === DaRE [n=DaRE@dyn-83-153-7-252.ppp.tiscali.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:13 pitti right, even ffox 1.0.7->1.0.8 had only trivial changes 09:13 raphink kbrooks: the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda 09:13 sladen Kamion: excellent. 09:13 pitti erm, -1 on both === robotgeek [i=venkat@ubuntu/member/robotgeek] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:13 Kamion pitti: ? 09:13 mjg59_ Ok. I think we've come to a consensus here. 09:14 sladen pitti: -1 on which and which? 09:14 pitti Kamion: I meant, it was 1.0.6->1.0.7, not 1.0.8 09:14 Kamion ok 09:14 pitti sorry for the confusion 09:14 Keybuk Kamion: you can name the CD version how you see fit :) === XderalteX [i=duped@85.131.150.102] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:14 mjg59 Kamion: You here? 09:14 Kamion yes === tdilago [n=dilago@20132199223.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting I would like to wonder the possibilities of ubuntu cds essentially being 09:14 enyc autogenerated... so they can be autogenerated with 'all secutrity updates relating to apckages in the base install CD'.... ;-) 09:14 mjg59_ Kamion: Sorry, my other session has finally caught up 09:14 Kamion enyc: sorry, at present I sit with a magnet building the CD images by hand on a hard disk 09:15 raphink enyc: that means md5sums are not fixed with release then 09:15 Keybuk ok, let's move on 09:15 Kamion takes bloody forever, I can tell you 09:15 mjg59_ Right. Dapper rescheduling? === Drel [n=drel@dsl254-029-130.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:15 enyc Kamion: I see I seee ;-) skay no matter ;-) 09:15 Keybuk so Kamion can go play 09:15 XderalteX Hi, what was the result of the meeting about postponing dapper? === mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b %XderalteX!*@*] by Seveas 09:15 Kamion ok, thanks guys 09:15 Keybuk mjg59_: I think mdz/sabdfl want to postpone that to a combined meeting with the CC 09:15 mjg59_ Keybuk: Ugh. Right. Any idea when? 09:15 zeus Keybuk, CC ?? === cyphase [n=cyphase@ppp-69-233-32-59.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:16 Kamion enyc: (in other words, they already are autogenerated) 09:16 Keybuk given neither of them are here, and they haven't yet announced a decision wrt to the delay, I don't see how we can talk about it :) 09:16 Keybuk mjg59_: none === mister_spiff [n=wes@CPE00119519e2fb-CM0012c90d04fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:16 mjg59_ Ok. Candidate review? === dsmcl [n=dsmcl@69.85.201.99] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:16 Keybuk "sabdfl fails to turn up for his own agenda item" :) 09:16 Kamion Mark would like the TB to look at freeze scheduling changes for dapper if the delay is accepted 09:16 ogra mjg59_, sladen ? 09:16 enyc Kamion: ok ;-) 09:16 Kamion before the CC/TB combined discussion 09:16 Keybuk sladen: weren't you approved already? === rob^^^ [n=rcaskey@cai17.music.uga.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:17 sladen Keybuk: to the best of my memory, yes 09:17 ogra Keybuk, but not in LP 09:17 ogra it slipped through i guess ... 09:17 Kamion it predated ubuntu-core-dev management in LP 09:17 sladen "somebody dropped lost key" 09:17 Keybuk Kamion: ok, we'll do that after candidates then 09:18 Keybuk raphink: ping? === crusader [n=crusader@wilheimina.csoma.elte.hu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:18 raphink pong === raphink is Raphal Pinson 09:18 raphink I've got an introduction text on my application here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaphaelPinson#head-afebebcae54ad32367aef6746d6e83eb22da8218 09:18 ogra two liner ? 09:18 raphink to make it short I am currently an active MOTU, particularly in Kubuntu. Lately, I have been 09:18 raphink focusing on fixing bugs and improving the Kubuntu desktop, working actively with AnthonyMercatante as the Kubuntu French MOTU Team (hehe). This implies working with packages in main, and getting them sponsored for upload afterwards. 09:19 raphink There are not that many Kubuntu MOTUs but in order to help the current lack of Kubuntu core-devs I would like to apply for core-dev at this time. 09:19 raphink I cannot be clearer: the main reason why I'm applying is to unblock uploads to main in Kubuntu, because I want Dapper to rock hard! 09:19 Keybuk Riddell: are you here? 09:19 Riddell I support raphink 09:19 raphink :) 09:19 Riddell he's been forwarding me fixes to packages in main 09:19 Riddell and I've been blocking when I've been busy with other stuff 09:19 ogra raphink, are you aware that you can touch *every* package in main then, even the kernel etc ? 09:20 raphink yes ogra 09:20 ogra and do you feel ready to do that ? 09:20 Riddell his fixes rarely need any changes, he's always very thourough === david`home is now known as david`bgk 09:20 raphink ogra: I think as the MOTU team leader you know my habbit is to aask questions before doing things I dont know 09:20 raphink I will never release a fix without asking the opinion of other people and testing it === raphink spend hours testing kde fixes before giving them up to riddell lately 09:21 raphink s/spend/spent/ === bmon [n=monnahan@181.Red-88-0-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zed [n=zed@unaffiliated/zed] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Yann2 [n=Yann2@sab57-1-82-231-107-53.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:21 ogra raphink, i trust your packaging, dont worry ... i just wanted to point out the big responsibility that comes with main rights 09:21 Keybuk ogra: your tone sounds like you don't support his application? === afonit [n=afonit@199.72.169.10] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:22 ogra Keybuk, i do === llODxCOll [n=justin@c-68-39-96-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:22 raphink ogra: i'm totally aware of this responsability 09:22 raphink :) 09:22 Keybuk how's his work with MOTU been? === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : The TB meeting is NOT MEANT to repeat suggestions/comments/questions about postponing Dapper Drake - DO NOT DO THAT - you will be muted | Logs of the dapper meeting: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperDelayMeetingProcess 09:22 ogra Keybuk, raphnik has reviewed way more packages than i did before applying for main === llODxCOll [n=justin@c-68-39-96-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 09:22 raphink I've been involved in reviewing since before being a MOTU 09:22 Keybuk ok 09:22 ogra he does good packages and givers good suggestions on REVU 09:23 ogra *gives 09:23 Keybuk your application is very thorough, I must say; I've got no questions for you :) 09:23 dholbach yes, he did awesome work, was proactive, helped people out. 09:23 Keybuk mjg59_: any questions? 09:23 mjg59_ No, I think I'm happy 09:23 Keybuk ok, let's vote then 09:23 Keybuk +1 from me 09:23 mjg59_ Having more work on KDE in main would be good, it's certainly lagging behind in integration 09:23 mjg59_ +1 === RAPIST [n=Gaim@c-68-39-96-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:23 ogra welcome raphink :) 09:23 raphink :D :D 09:23 raphink tanks guys :) 09:23 raphink thanks 09:24 pitti welcome raphink 09:24 Keybuk I'm assuming Joel Bryan is not here? 09:24 Seveas congratz raphink 09:24 RAPIST so are they going to delay the release? 09:24 dholbach rocknroll, congratulations raphink 09:24 sivang whee! === mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b %RAPIST!*@*] by Seveas === sivang high fives raphink 09:24 dholbach RAPIST: wrong meeting 09:24 Surak congrats raphink 09:24 david`bgk congrats raphink 09:24 raphink thanks Seveas,pitti ogra sivant Surak:) 09:24 ogra :) 09:24 freeflying-ibook congrats raphink 09:24 mjg59_ Ok. 09:24 raphink thanks freeflying-ibook && good luck :) 09:25 mjg59_ Do we have Joel Bryan? === soc [n=soc@p54ADEC1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 09:25 ogra desnt look like 09:25 dholbach mjg59_: I'll mail him. 09:25 mjg59_ Ok. === zottan [n=zottan@87.218.85.130] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:25 mjg59_ MOTU? === dolzzzon is now known as dolson === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@unaffiliated/lotusleaf] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:25 crimsun it doesn't look like he is 09:25 mjg59_ Who's new since last time? 09:25 ogra daf ? === Project318 [n=alex@c-69-141-186-118.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:25 mjg59_ daf appears to be missing... 09:25 lotusleaf hi :) === yeffries [n=geoffroy@roa76-1-82-67-84-13.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:26 minghua I am new, I added myself for approval just yesterday :-) 09:26 sladen he was around an hour ago === minghua is Ming Hua 09:26 Kamion mjg59_: you are ideally placed to hunt him down, surely === dholbach pinged daf 09:26 mjg59_ Kamion: He's sprinting === DapperxDrake [n=Gaim@c-68-39-96-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:26 sivang launchpad sprint 09:26 sivang I suppose 09:27 Keybuk minghua: ok, tell us why you'd like to join the MOTU :) 09:27 DapperxDrake so are they going to delay the dapper release or what? === mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b %*!*@c-68-39-96-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] by Seveas 09:27 jjesse some people just don't learn :) 09:27 Seveas DapperDrake, see /topic - wrong time 09:27 minghua okay, I have been working with other MOTUs for a few months, and I've been doing merges, transitions, bugfixes 09:28 minghua my wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MingHua, launchpad https://launchpad.net/people/minghua 09:28 Kamion DapperxDrake: barging into meetings and asks off-topic questions is rude. You wouldn't do it in real life, would you? 09:28 Keybuk can you give some examples of the areas you've been working on, and what you'd like to work on next? 09:28 Kamion s/asks/asking/ === yeffries [n=geoffroy@roa76-1-82-67-84-13.fbx.proxad.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Kopete] 09:28 ogra dsaa, edmota, jdong, JohnnyMast, minghua, freeflying and jjmmma are the candidates i think 09:28 ogra please speak up if you are here 09:28 Seveas ogra, JohnnyMast - lol.... 09:28 minghua I am applying MOTU so that I can upload my fixes directly, mostly for scim related packages === Drel [n=drel@dsl254-029-130.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Reeper [n=Reeper@ris91-1-82-231-150-86.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:29 ogra minghua, you are a DD, right ? === pAtrick|WoRk [n=patrick@leibniz.catalyst.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zyga [n=zyga@ubuntu/member/zyga] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:29 minghua (but scim is entering main, so I am not so sure), but I still do other bugfixes 09:29 pitti minghua: NB that they are in main now, so even as MOTU you can't do that (but it's the path to main upload privs, right) 09:29 minghua ogra: no, but I am debian (co-)maintainer of quite a few scim packages 09:30 dholbach and I'd be happy to sponsor minghua's uploads, as he always did good work. 09:30 Keybuk ogra, dholbach: do you have anything to add to minghua's application? === Reeper is now known as Reeper^WoW 09:30 minghua I do plan to apply for DD if that's relevant 09:30 ogra Keybuk, only a ++ 09:30 crimsun I've uploaded a dozen or so of minghua's scim & fonts fixes 09:30 Amaranth minghua is the one that got us rolling on making scim work right 09:30 minghua pitti: yes I am aware of that, but one step at a time, I suppose :-) 09:30 ogra he pushed scim forward when there was no team around CJK yet 09:30 dholbach he's considerate, helped out, motivated and was an asset for MOTU wannabes, when they had questions 09:30 ogra mostly on his own 09:30 mjg59_ I'm all for anyone who can improve our localisation support 09:31 Surak dholbach, ogra: ++ 09:31 pitti I'd welcome minhua 09:31 Keybuk mjg59_: any questions for minghua ? 09:31 minghua and I do plan to post my patches before upload, so other people can comment === claydoh [n=clay@65.99.187.241] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] 09:31 minghua I think that is very important for MOTU to work together 09:31 mjg59_ minghua: Is your long term aim to apply for main privileges? === atie_ [n=atie@ubuntu/member/atie] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:32 minghua I am currently subscribed in launchpad for all scim packages I maintain in Debian, and comments on almost every bug received === dsmcl_ [n=dsmcl@adsl-070-147-119-211.sip.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:32 minghua mjg59_: now scim is in main, so yes I do plan to apply for main priviledges 09:33 mjg59_ minghua: Ok, that's good to know 09:33 minghua I want to take care of scim packages (and in general other CJK l10n related packages, such as fonts) in ubuntu 09:33 atie_ BIG support from me for Ming. 09:33 ogra atie_, not only from you ;) 09:33 mjg59_ minghua: At some point it would be good to document font issues, so it's easier for people to work this stuff out === speel [n=speel@cpe-24-90-224-66.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:33 mjg59_ But that's not a prerequisite :) === rm [n=rm@dsl51B6E20D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:34 Keybuk +1 from me 09:34 minghua mjg59_: I think you are aware that bubulle is trying to form an font team in debian, and I defintely will participate in that 09:34 minghua (and communicate/collaborates with MOTUs) 09:34 minghua for the font issues 09:34 Chousuke Is the second meeting over already? what is this conversation about? === fsman [n=paul@host86-141-95-96.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lODxCOl [n=llODxCOl@c-68-39-96-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b %Chousuke!*@*] by Seveas 09:35 mjg59_ minghua: Excellent 09:35 dholbach Chousuke: read the topic 09:35 mjg59_ +1 from me 09:35 minghua Chousuke: agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda, and please read topic before asking 09:35 ogra Chousuke, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda 09:35 Keybuk ok, welcome aboard minghua 09:35 dholbach welcome minghua 09:35 ogra welcome minghua !! 09:35 minghua thanks mjg59_ and Keybuk 09:35 ogra :) 09:35 dholbach I'm happy to see you in the team! 09:35 ogra yeah 09:35 ogra me as well 09:35 pitti great to see you on board, minghua 09:36 Keybuk are any other candidates here today? === freeflying-ibook is freeflying 09:36 mjg59_ freeflying-ibook: Around? 09:36 mjg59_ Excellent 09:36 minghua and thanks everyone who showed up for support :-) 09:36 mjg59_ Want to introduce yourself? 09:36 Seveas (dholbach and others - I'm being the bad police guy and insta-mute - I also notify in PM so no need to msg the channel more 09:36 Seveas ) I come from China ,my name is Hou ZhengPeng have worked with kubuntu-team for 09:36 freeflying-ibook months , and my major work is on Input Method and make ubuntu can support chinese better . And my goal is make ubuntu more friendly to our chinese people , and spread it in china So I hope I can be a motu , and do more and more for my goal 09:36 Surak minghua: congrats 09:36 atie_ congrats! minghua === em [n=em@RAS42-163.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:36 freeflying-ibook congrats minghua 09:37 ogra i guess Riddell worked with you on packaging ? 09:37 sladen freeflying-ibook: have you talked to minghua or any of the other people working in a similar area? === crimsun [i=nobody@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 09:37 Riddell I support freeflying-ibook, he's been a great help getting cjk support into kubuntu, and has worked on a number of packages === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:37 minghua sladen (and others): freeflying-ibook has been mainly working on the KDE half of the scim related stuff 09:37 minghua which I am not familar with 09:37 freeflying-ibook sladen: ya, i've talked with minghua about scim and also other people ,such as atie_ === llODxCOll [n=justin@c-68-39-96-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:38 Riddell his packages need changed often but he's quick to make fixes and learns fast 09:38 Riddell s/need/needed/ 09:38 raphink I was not too happy with freeflying-ibook lately 09:38 ogra Riddell, are you confident he's ready for working alone on universe packages yet 09:38 raphink but I asked him to review a bit to learn more 09:38 raphink and he's been improving quite fast 09:38 raphink in the last week 09:38 raphink and asking good questions 09:39 Riddell ogra: yes, so long as he gets his changelogs proofread for english :) 09:39 ogra heh 09:39 ogra nah, we need to learn chinese ;) 09:40 Riddell that's the alternative === Keybuk has always wanted to learn chinese 09:40 Keybuk (random) 09:40 minghua freeflying-ibook: I want to know your opinion on using launchpad 09:40 atie_ he's big help for skim, I support him. :) 09:40 Surak ogra: china is becoming so important than in some years the rest of the world will become irrelevant (I'm studying chinese anyway :-) ) 09:40 freeflying-ibook minghua: I'd like to use 09:40 ogra heh 09:40 minghua freeflying-ibook: I see that most of your patches aren't posted to launchpad and no malone bugs either === DUMAiSO [n=thomaz@200.231.110.167] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] 09:41 minghua freeflying-ibook: I assume for kde packages you keep good contact with Riddell 09:41 Riddell he does 09:41 freeflying-ibook minghua: if there has bugs, i will attach my patch on 09:41 minghua freeflying-ibook: but for scim package I am subscribed to the packages I am interested in, and you don't send patches there === dsmcl [n=dsmcl@69.85.201.99] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rideout [n=rideout@c-24-8-195-254.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === schlurchz [n=nikolaus@p54BC8E35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === zAo^ [n=zao@zAo.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:42 Keybuk ogra, dholbach: have you worked with freeflying-ibook much yet? 09:42 ogra nope 09:42 ogra i dont know KDE :) 09:42 freeflying-ibook minghua: for scim , there is seldom patch for it 09:42 minghua freeflying-ibook: for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/scim-pinyin/+bug/34413 you did not 09:43 dholbach Keybuk: I didn't work much with him, sorry. 09:43 Amaranth minghua: i'm not sure this is the right time 09:43 minghua freeflying-ibook: I got your debdiff because I asked you (as Debian upstream maintainer) 09:43 freeflying-ibook minghua: before this uploaded , I mail you debdiff 09:43 ogra Keybuk, i tend to belive Riddell and since he'll break his packages i'm fine with reputation from him :) 09:43 minghua freeflying-ibook: but I would appreciate you do these in a more open way, so more people can get involved === KurtKraut [n=ktk@200217110170.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting my instinct suggests that freeflying is making good contributions to Ubuntu, and 09:43 Keybuk should continue to do so; but isn't yet well acquainted enough with our procedures and systems to formally join the team 09:44 freeflying-ibook minghua: about scim and relate stuff , idon't think now is good time to talk about 09:44 Keybuk would anybody like to disagree with that and raise support? 09:44 atie_ minghua, I'd like to see yours and freeflying's efforts coordinated since you need help for KDE part. === devscott [n=scott@137.81.119.161] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:44 minghua Amaranth: I am hoping he can use launchpad more, because I don't want to read dapper-changes to see a surprise 09:44 ogra Riddell, ? 09:44 minghua atie_: yes, I am trying to figure a way to cooperate with him 09:45 Riddell as I've said, I'm happy with his work for MOTU 09:45 Keybuk mjg59: any questions/comments? 09:45 minghua I am not unhappy with freeflying-ibook's changes to universe === didier [n=didier@84.5.171.55] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:45 mjg59_ I'd agree with Scott for now. I don't want to see Kubuntu be a poor second cousin in terms of localisation support, but I have a couple of qualms right now 09:45 minghua but as people said, there need to be cooperations, and I currently have problems with cooperating with freeflying-ibook 09:46 minghua I don't necessarily need to care, though 09:46 Keybuk freeflying-ibook: thanks for your contributions so far, please do continue them :) however we're going to defer you for now. 09:46 sladen minghua: could you work on sponsoring more of freeflying-ibook's uploads on the packages that you look after (if they're in Universe) 09:46 Keybuk freeflying-ibook: please work more closely with other scim maintainers, and the other MOTU; also try to use launchpad more, especially Malone 09:46 freeflying-ibook minghua: actually it's you say that you don't care the main inclusion of scim , so how can i cooperate with y 09:47 Keybuk not in the least because we use Launchpad to see your work 09:47 Keybuk and at the moment your launchpad page shows very little activity 09:47 minghua sladen: pitti said most scim packages are in main now 09:47 sladen flikkeh: you have some excellent unique skills---that few other people here know about, please stick around and keep at it 09:47 minghua sladen: but if he posted other CJK related patches, I would be more than happy to review and upload === jwilliams [n=jwilliam@williamslinux.otago.ac.nz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:48 sladen minghua: I'm sure he will be :) 09:48 Keybuk ok, let's move on 09:48 Keybuk jdong doesn't appear to be here 09:48 Keybuk and none of the other candidates are members yet 09:48 Keybuk sladen: I'm not entirely sure what your first agenda item is actually *about* 09:48 Keybuk could you summaries what you'd like us to discuss and decide here? 09:49 sladen Keybuk: first or third? 09:49 Keybuk first 09:49 Keybuk "granted main upload..." 09:49 ogra Keybuk, jdong didnt do *any* packaging with MOTU yet 09:49 minghua freeflying-ibook: also feel free to mail me if you have any patches for packages in universe that you feel not suitable for malone 09:50 ogra Keybuk, being added to the LP team where he was missed out :) 09:50 freeflying-ibook minghua: thx for your advice 09:50 sladen Keybuk: it's irrelevant now, the ticky box in LP has been clicked === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:50 mjg59_ sladen: I think that we should avoid discussing the new features stuff until the decision has been made on scheduling 09:50 Keybuk sladen: ok :) 09:50 mjg59_ Would you mind if we left that until later? 09:51 Keybuk madwifi-ng is not being held because of lack of time 09:51 sladen mjg59_: it would make sense. It's dependent on that 09:51 Keybuk it's being held because it flat-out doesn't work on amd64 :-) === ltibor65_ [n=ltibor65@dsl5400E465.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:51 mjg59_ Keybuk: The plan is to add it to l-r-m for x86 in any case, but anyway 09:51 mjg59_ (Not replacing madwifi) 09:51 Keybuk aye 09:52 Keybuk ok, let's look at that last item 09:52 Keybuk and then go back to Mark's 09:52 Seveas (from the nm-mailinglist: madwifi-ng cvs is quite crackful lately) === jammcq [n=jam@c-69-244-142-116.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:52 Keybuk sladen: what's the strange behaviour you have noticed? 09:53 Keybuk the most usual thing I notice is either an "0ubuntu1" upload to Ubuntu and a "1" to Debian that are identical 09:53 sladen Keybuk: *blink*? 09:53 Keybuk or a "1" to both with different target distros sladen: "PaulSladen: Syncs from external repositories. I've noticed a few people 09:53 Keybuk doing fake uploads of duplicate packages into order to speed up the development cycle." === fsman [n=paul@host86-141-95-96.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 09:53 ogra sladen, that was advised 09:53 sladen Keybuk: syching back from Debian is taking a while 09:53 dholbach I suppose he meant 1build1 uploads 09:53 ogra because the LP sync mechanism isnt in place yet 09:54 slomo yes, and it doesn't add a new delta as -Xbuild1 would be automatically synced and overwritten by the autosyncer with -(X+1) === Aelor is now known as Aelor|sleep === KurtKraut [n=ktk@200217110170.user.veloxzone.com.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === Aelor|sleep [n=Aelor@ALille-252-1-3-120.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Quitte"] 09:54 Keybuk sladen: syncing back from Debian doesn't happen at all right now, unless you have a UVF exception, no? 09:54 ogra XbuildX versions are overridden by autosyncs later 09:54 mjg59_ Keybuk: It doesn't happen at all right now 09:54 sladen Keybuk: see note at the end 09:54 mjg59_ Even for UVF exceptions 09:54 Keybuk I must admit, I'm completely baffled here === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/member/seveas] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Seveas"] 09:54 ogra Keybuk, there was a backlog on elmos side 09:54 Keybuk sladen: could you give us a 1-line summary of the decision required? 09:55 sladen mjg59_: if packages are uploaded to Debian (to save having deltas against upstream) 09:55 sladen s/mjg59_// 09:55 ogra to get that done without LP it was asked that MOTU does XbuildX uploads 09:55 sladen Keybuk: "what do do about syncs from Debian not happening" 09:55 mjg59_ sladen: I think the actual problem here is "syncs are not happening", not "it needs to be easier to do syncs" 09:55 mjg59_ And the technical board is not in a position to fix the former of these 09:55 Keybuk "easier to do syncs" is a firm Launchpad spec 09:55 sladen Keybuk: when there is a preference to send packages to Upstream---we can't do this if the system is broken 09:56 ogra Keybuk, "do syncs at all" === Qiang [n=qiang@chill.ccs.yorku.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:56 slomo mjg59_: but the TB is fine with doing "fakesyncs", i.e. -Xbuild1 uploads? 09:56 mjg59_ sladen: And the problem is "the system is broken". That's not what we can solve. 09:56 ogra sladen, where is the system broken ? 09:56 Keybuk syncs are currently somewhere between elmo, launchpad and katie as I understand it 09:56 mjg59_ slomo: I would really prefer not to, but in the absence of anything else... === Adziura [n=adziura@cuh234.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:56 Keybuk none of which have TB-oversight 09:56 ogra Keybuk, syncs are manually done by MOTU currently ... 09:57 ogra and not for TB, right 09:57 Keybuk sladen: where is the fixed sync system you are proposing we use? 09:57 ogra it was an informal advise to use XbuildX for now 09:57 mjg59_ ogra: No, something that approximates syncs are manually done by MOTU currently 09:57 sladen mjg59_: so what I'm after is guidance about how to cope with the system being broken. What's the offical workaround? 09:57 dholbach I consider this discussion to be somewhat artificial, all we seem to be doing is determining, that things could work better. === chrisle [n=chris@p54BE15C8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:57 Keybuk sladen: the official workaround is to do an upload of "XbuildX" 09:58 mjg59_ Anyway. I think it's clear we can't really do anything here === Adziura [n=adziura@cuh234.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 09:58 Keybuk indeed. It's known to be broken. It's on the list of things to fix. === sharms [n=mindwarp@141.215.4.128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 09:58 Keybuk And there is a workaround which is being used. 09:58 mjg59_ So. Hypothetical dapper schedule. Does someone have a link to the current schedule for reference? 09:58 minghua I think sladen want to ask TB to confirm that "-Xbuild1" fakesync uploads are okay for the current situation 09:59 Keybuk http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen 09:59 Keybuk ^ is the GNOME 2.15 proposed schedule 09:59 minghua because some MOTUs are still not sure if it's correct to do so 09:59 Seveas mjg59, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule 09:59 Keybuk minghua: I don't think there's a TB decision there though; unless there is an argument *not* to do it that way 10:00 minghua Keybuk: good, I have no questions then :-) 10:00 Keybuk hypothetical dapper+6 weeks release would put it on June 1st 10:00 sladen Keybuk: groovy, ta 10:00 mjg59_ Right. 10:00 mjg59_ Currently we have passed every freeze except beta, string and documentation 10:00 mjg59_ Code should only be changing to fix bugs 10:00 Nafallo mjg59: except kernel aswell. 10:00 ltibor65_ Who is TB-member here? 10:01 mjg59_ Unless there are specific feature goals, I don't think anyone is going to argue that we should lift the current freezes 10:01 ogra hmm, polish might also mean UI changes 10:01 Keybuk given the emphasis on localisation, it actually makes some sense to me to thaw the UI freeze just in case changes need to be made 10:01 mjg59_ Keybuk: Ok. UI freeze sounds like a good exception. 10:01 Surak for the translators a reminder: string freeze is scheduled for the day after tomorrow === Jack_copp [n=Jack_cop@216.141.127.38] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Kopete] 10:01 mjg59_ As another reminder: No decision has been made on the delay as yet. Do not assume that it will happen. 10:01 ogra string freeze might also move i think 10:02 mjg59_ The fact that we are discussing this now does not mean that it will happen. 10:02 ogra as well as doc freeze 10:02 mjg59_ This discussion is purely to determine what schedule we will follow if the delay /does/ take place 10:02 Keybuk I'd push the entire March block into April 10:02 pitti given that rosetta doesn't yet import everything in dapper, string freeze can certainly slip for one or two weeks 10:02 ogra yeah 10:02 Keybuk so leave us in FeatureFreeze 10:02 mjg59_ Keybuk: Keeping the weeks the same? That sounds good. 10:02 Keybuk with a BetaRelease on April 20th 10:02 sivang maybe we'd better wait for when a schedule has been decided? or , at least brought for review? 10:02 mjg59_ sivang: We decide the schedule. 10:02 sivang mjg59_: now? :) 10:02 mjg59_ Yes. 10:03 ogra theats what we do === pkst [n=kostas@ppp60-adsl-232.ath.forthnet.gr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:03 pitti sivang: it's IF delay is done THEN this new plan becomes active, not more 10:03 mjg59_ Or rather, we are currently deciding what the schedule will be if the delay takes place. 10:03 sivang pitti: thakns for the clarification. 10:03 mjg59_ Keybuk: That's effectively a 4 week delay. Where do the other two weeks go? 10:03 ogra bugfixing ? 10:03 pitti pure bug fixing 10:03 ogra testing 10:03 Keybuk an extra two weeks of Beta test reports 10:04 sivang hardware support bug fixing 10:04 mjg59_ Keybuk: Ok. With no string changes or UI changes? 10:04 pitti preferably not 10:04 sladen two weeks -> insert an extra week between each of the last two freezes? 10:04 Keybuk hmm, that's an interesting point 10:04 atie_ mjg59, do you have a list of goals for localization and how many days needed for them? === WildTangent [n=justin_@d141-169-31.home.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:04 Keybuk the String and DocString freezes could be placed after Beta 10:04 mjg59_ atie_: I don't, no - not really my field, I'm afraid 10:05 sivang sladen: you mean between FF and the UI ones? 10:05 Surak what are the tradeoffs of postponing the string freeze? 10:05 ogra atie_, #ubuntu-i10n (sprint people) might know (but they might be offline by now) 10:05 mjg59_ Keybuk: I think we should aim to have the same amount of time between string freeze and final release as we do now 10:05 atie_ mjg59, localization maybe factor for schedule, isn't it? 10:05 Keybuk mjg59_: I agree with you 10:05 Keybuk what about UI-freeze? 10:06 mjg59_ Keybuk: That is, string freeze should be 6 weeks before final release 10:06 sladen I was thinking between RC and FR. But actually I think that time should be used earlier so that it can actually be /used/ and not spent sitting around waiting 10:06 Keybuk should that be T-5 weeks or B-1 week? === WildTangent [n=justin_@d141-169-31.home.cgocable.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] 10:06 mjg59_ Keybuk: I think it should be independent of the beta. The length of time is more needed for translation time, right? === picgla [n=picmar@cpe-24-221-169-78.ca.sprintbbd.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 10:06 mjg59_ Shame Jono isn't here. It would be nice to have his opinion on that. 10:07 ogra but mako was earlier 10:07 Keybuk right 10:07 Burgwork is this something I can answer? 10:07 ogra Burgwork, do you work with them on the book ? 10:07 Burgwork yes === ssam [n=ssam@80-41-54-154.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:07 ogra so give an opinion :) 10:07 mjg59_ Ok. I propose string freeze to be April 27th. 10:08 mjg59_ Docstringfreeze should be the week after that. === PierPP [n=pier@host81-217.pool80104.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:08 ogra ++ 10:08 mjg59_ Translation deadline two weeks after that. 10:08 mjg59_ And then release two weeks after that. 10:08 Keybuk right 10:08 mjg59_ That is, keep those freezes the same distance away from the release as they are currently scheduled to be. === philbull [n=philbull@84.13.84.175] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 10:09 Keybuk BetaRelease on April 20th? 10:09 mjg59_ Yes, I think making a beta release on April 20th would be good. 10:09 Seveas it should not be called beta 10:09 Keybuk April6th 10:09 Keybuk 13thBeta Freeze 10:09 Keybuk 20thBetaRelease, UserInterfaceFreeze 10:09 Keybuk 27thStringFreeze 10:09 Keybuk May4thDocumentationStringFreeze 10:09 Keybuk 11th 10:09 robotgeek translation of documentation can only begin after doc string freeze, how does it exactly improve document translation? 10:09 Keybuk 18thNonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline, KernelFreeze 10:09 Keybuk 25thReleaseCandidate, LanguagePackTranslationDeadline 10:09 Keybuk June1stFinalRelease === jnk [n=jnk@adsl-62-167-27-61.adslplus.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:09 Seveas it should be a PR boost 10:09 mjg59_ Seveas: Naming is not our field. 10:09 ogra Seveas, jdub will rename it properly === devscott [n=scott@137.81.119.161] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 10:09 Seveas ogra, I'm scared.... 10:09 Burgwork the docteam wants to be mostly frozen for the beta, due to having great testing for that release 10:09 ogra :) 10:09 Keybuk that gives us an extra 5 (not 4) weeks until Beta 10:10 Keybuk and an extra week between Beta and Release 10:10 mjg59_ Ok. How many people do we have here from the doc team? 10:10 Burgwork so I would keep the docteam string freeze the same as the beta === robotgeek is docteam === godzero [n=godzero@c-24-118-30-116.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:11 mjg59_ robotgeek: How much extra time do you (and the translaters) realistically need? 10:11 Nafallo should we really move the kernel freeze? 10:11 atie_ what if beta on April 20th not achieved for localization goals, do we postpone them to dapper+1? 10:11 Keybuk Nafallo: it makes sense for the kernel to be frozen relative to the release 10:11 Keybuk not relative to now 10:11 robotgeek mjg59_: i am quite new to the doc team, i am not sure about translation times. i was hoping someone else could enlighten me on the issue 10:12 mjg59_ The kernel freeze is a hard freeze. 10:12 Burgwork mjg59, we are well on track to meeting the current string freeze 10:12 mjg59_ Keeping it slushy for bug-fixing is sensible. 10:12 Burgwork even without it being bumped back 10:12 mjg59_ Burgwork: Right. So currently we're proposing giving you an extra 4-5 weeks. 10:12 Keybuk Burgwork: that assumes no new input from the localisation work 10:12 robotgeek the only problem is with sutff changing in the UI 10:12 mjg59_ What could you do with that time? 10:12 Burgwork cleanup more docs 10:13 robotgeek mjg59_: probably not much. cleanup === olive [n=olive@o.o6.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:13 Keybuk what about documentation for espresso? === Ex-Cyber [i=Ultima_s@1Cust7634.an3.den10.da.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:13 Burgwork not yet in place 10:13 Burgwork that is the last major piece we need 10:13 Keybuk is that on track for the current string freeze? 10:13 ogra mjg59_, renaming 6.04 to 6-06 in the docs :) 10:14 mjg59_ I think it would be helpful to have a proposal from the doc team on this 10:14 Surak what about internationalization for espresso? 10:14 Keybuk \o/ finally, my version numbering scheme (that I suggested back at the original "version number decision" meeting) is being adopted 10:14 Keybuk (ahem) 10:14 Burgwork mjg59, you want specific information about where we should move the freeze to? 10:15 mjg59_ Burgwork: I think this is something that should be decided with more feedback from the doc team 10:15 Keybuk Burgwork: I'm trying to understand what the DocStringFreeze is nailed to 10:15 Keybuk is it "four weeks before Release, because that's how long we need to do it" 10:15 mjg59_ If an earlier freeze helps translation, then that's good. 10:15 Burgwork Keybuk, currently the beta freeze, to allow greater testing 10:15 Keybuk or is it "never change Docs after Beta has released" ? 10:15 Keybuk testing of what? 10:15 jjesse and to allow translation 10:15 mjg59_ If a later freeze helps the quality of the docs, then that's also good. 10:15 robotgeek Keybuk: i think it has more to do with the UI freeze, cause we have to change stuff if you do === Varth [n=Nathan@c-24-15-102-55.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:16 Burgwork testing to see if the docs are crack and looking for typos, etc. 10:16 jjesse i'm not the best person, but i thought doc freeze occured after UI freeze to help with translations and make sure there aren't major changes to the docs 10:16 sladen Keybuk: that would leave us still in '''UserInterfaceFreeze''' ? 10:16 Burgwork plus allow translation 10:16 jjesse docs don't get uploaded into rosseta until doc freeze (correect me if i'm wrong burgwork) === vicks [n=vicks@c-dd8870d5.037-42-67626719.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:17 Burgwork afaik, that is correct, but I am not the best person to ask about that 10:17 Keybuk Burgwork: DocStringFreeze to me suggests "no more documentation changes" 10:17 ogra Keybuk, oh, yes, your list above had no new date for UI freeze === Flik [n=Matthew@d64-180-234-68.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:17 Keybuk ogra: does, april 20th 10:17 ogra oh 10:17 ogra sorry, i'm blind === DaRE [n=DaRE@dyn-83-153-7-252.ppp.tiscali.fr] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === ogra blushes === erdal_ [n=erdalron@p508746AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] 10:18 ogra Keybuk, no text changes, but screenshots etc 10:18 Burgwork we like to keep screenshots to the docteam freeze as well 10:18 Keybuk right, given the changes in localisation and stuff, it makes a bit of sense to me to actually freeze the UI/String/Docs *after* we've already released beta 10:18 robotgeek jjesse: that is correct, no translation before DocStringFreeze 10:19 Keybuk but still with a whole extra week to do the work before release 10:19 Burgwork let me raise the idea on the doc mailing list 10:19 mjg59_ Keybuk: I think we should possibly get more feedback from the translators before making a firm decision on this point 10:19 Burgwork as jerome and matthew are the best people to ask about this 10:19 robotgeek mjg59_: +1 10:20 mjg59_ Since there is a firm desire for higher quality docs, and that's going to include the translations 10:20 ogra i think we do a rough proposal only ... === wdh [n=wouter@s55935227.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:20 ogra anyway ... 10:20 Keybuk right, I agree with ogra; let's put it forward as a proposal for the TB/CC super-meeting 10:20 Keybuk and make sure the translators and docteam have weighed in 10:20 mjg59_ Ok. Let's go with that. === zell1983 [n=zell1983@host18-123.pool874.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:21 sladen is it worth budging the Release an extra day to fall at the start of the weekend for mirror loading et al 10:21 Keybuk there's a reason (that I've forgotten) that we do it on Thursday 10:22 ogra someones b-day ? 10:22 atie_ most GNOME 2.14 application translations can be uploaded to rosetta independently I think. 10:22 ogra :) 10:23 Keybuk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule/Slewed 10:23 Keybuk (thanks sladen) 10:23 Keybuk so that's our proposal for a 6-week-delayed schedule === lars__ [n=lars@216-34-96.0102.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:23 mjg59_ Any violent objections? 10:24 sivang seems sane 10:24 ogra since its a proposal only ... 10:24 enyc The weeknumbers on that schedule dont make sense ;-) 10:24 PierPP y === Spec [n=spec@dsl092-151-006.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 10:24 Keybuk enyc: "week numbers" ? the dates should all be a Thursday 10:25 sladen enyc: any better? 29->33 10:25 enyc sladen: much better ;-) 10:25 ogra heh 10:25 PierPP sweet 10:25 Keybuk ah, heh 10:25 mjg59_ Ok. Anything else to do? 10:25 Keybuk Any other business from the floor? 10:25 ogra doesnt look like 10:26 enyc That.. would mean that 6.04 _would_ be there.. as a beta release! 10:26 enyc and 6.05 would be the final 10:26 enyc hrrm 10:26 Keybuk 6-06 as final 10:26 enyc well you can't please everybody _whatever_ you do! 10:26 ogra nope, 6-06 10:26 enyc oh yes 10:26 enyc ;-) 10:26 Keybuk ok, in that case 10:26 Keybuk meeting ajourned 10:26 Keybuk thanks everybody 10:26 ogra yay 10:26 Keybuk the next formal meeting will be in two weeks time (28th)
MeetingLogs/Technical_2006-03-14 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:35:44 by localhost)