Technical_2006-06-06
09:58 bddebian Hey folks
09:58 mdz morning
09:58 Bluekuja hello mdz,bddebian
09:58 ogra hey
09:58 teckfatt mdz: morning
09:58 bddebian Morning? It's 4:00pm ;-)
09:58 mjg59 Evening
09:58 mdz somewhere
09:58 bddebian Hi Bluekuja
09:59 teckfatt 9pm at UK
09:59 pygi hey hey Andrea
09:59 mdz Keybuk: ping
09:59 highvoltage hi bddebian, mdz, Bluekuja, ogra, mjg59, teckfatt and pygi :)
09:59 bddebian Heh, hi highvoltage
09:59 Bluekuja pygi: hello mario :)
09:59 mdz danger, danger!
09:59 ogra heh, hey highvoltage
=== ogra ducks
09:59 Bluekuja highvoltage: hello jon :)
09:59 pygi mdz, nuclear power plant is exploding? :)
09:59 ogra (instinctively)
09:59 teckfatt highvoltage: hello
10:00 imbrandon danger will robinson ?!?
10:00 pygi bddebian, you came ;)
10:00 zul watchout radioactive man the sun is exploding again!
10:00 bddebian pygi: Yeah, I figure what the he** :-)
10:01 bddebian All they can do is laugh at me :-)
10:01 mdz crimsun: here?
10:01 crimsun mdz: yes
10:01 mdz I think you're first on the agenda
10:01 mdz welcome, all, etc. let's get started ;-)
10:02 mdz crimsun: so you're applying for -core-dev?
10:02 Keybuk mdz: yup
10:02 ogra oh ? you arent already ?
10:02 crimsun mdz: yes. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielTChen (top section) has some words on what I'd like to do for main.
10:03 bddebian Crimsun wasn't already?
=== ogra thought with all the alsa fixes that wouldnt be possible to do through a sponsor
10:03 mjg59 Guys? Could we have a litle less background chatter?
10:03 bddebian Sorry
10:03 mjg59 It makes it trickier to pick out the important stuff
10:03 mdz crimsun: so you plan to implement this troubleshooting tool?
10:04 crimsun mdz: yes, but certainly not alone
10:04 crimsun mdz: there are a fair number of clueful people who can assist, and I value their contributions (trappist and dolson come to mind)
10:04 mdz crimsun: it seems to me that it would be sensible to incorporate additional troubleshooting functionality into ogra's hwdb-client rather than add a new tool
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10:05 crimsun mdz: point taken, given that hwdb-client already has the needed info
10:05 ogra which should see a (partial) rewrite anyway (and if only for front/backend splitting to make kde happy)
10:05 mjg59 crimsun: You'd be happy with that?
10:05 mdz crimsun: and a primitive audio test
10:05 crimsun ogra: yes, and hopefully for Xfce, too?
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10:06 ogra crimsun, yeah
10:06 crimsun mjg59: avoiding unnecessary code duplication? very much so.
10:06 mjg59 crimsun: Has your MOTU work included much packaging?
10:06 Keybuk https://launchpad.net/people/crimsun/+packages
10:06 crimsun mjg59: of new source packages? not terribly much is in the archives. I've done mostly maintenance work, though I'm fairly familiar with packaging.
10:07 mjg59 Ok, yeah, good point
10:07 mdz mjg59: crimsun is a regular contributor to our kernel tree as well, if I'm not mistaken
10:07 mjg59 crimsun: My only vague concern is that working in main may involve you doing more packaging from scratch
10:07 mjg59 But my experience of your work is that you're sufficiently responsible that I doubt that would cause any sort of problems
10:08 crimsun mjg59: I'm quite comfortable with packaging from scratch, as I'm pretty active in assisting others in #-motu
10:08 mjg59 crimsun: Ok, sounds good
10:08 mdz crimsun: was it the development of this troubleshooting tool which motivated you to apply for upload rights to main?
10:08 mdz or anything else additionally?
10:08 mjg59 mdz: He is, and he's been invaluable in helping us keep track with upstream alsa
=== imbrandon can definately vouch for crimsun helping new packagers in #-motu
10:08 crimsun mdz: to be honest, it was moreso to avoid having to ask pitti to upload alsa* changes
10:09 Keybuk I was about to say, crimsun is one of the rare people who seems to not mind touching ALSA
10:09 mjg59 Our sound support would be much worse otherwise
10:10 mjg59 I don't think I've got any more questions. You guys?
10:10 mdz Keybuk: any questions for crimsun before voting?
10:10 Keybuk I have no questions
10:11 mdz votes?
10:11 Keybuk +1
10:11 mdz +1 and hearty thanks for your contributions to date
10:11 mjg59 +1
10:11 crimsun thank you very much, and I look forward to making post-6.06 LTS rock even harder :)
10:11 dholbach congratulations, crimsun!
10:11 mjg59 crimsun: Congrats!
10:11 mdz crimsun: congratulations and welcome
=== ogra applauds crimsun ecstatically
10:11 zul crimsun: yay!
10:12 jpatrick crimsun: congrats
10:12 mjg59 Who's up next?
10:12 highvoltage whohoo!
10:12 imbrandon congrats
10:12 bddebian w00t crimsun
10:12 pygi congrats crimsun ;)
10:12 Keybuk bddebian, I believe?
10:12 Bluekuja mjg59: Its me for dev
10:12 mdz is JAMIL AHMED present?
10:12 siretart congratulations, crimsun! :)
10:12 Keybuk mdz: he isn't a member of -dev yet
10:12 mdz Keybuk: indeed
10:12 Keybuk so needs a dholbach love letter
10:12 mdz dholbach: have you contacted him?
10:13 mdz Bluekuja: indeed, it appears you are next
10:13 ogra mdz, bddebian ?
10:13 bddebian ogra: ?
10:13 dholbach mdz: I contacted all of them, but not my-sweet-leader and bluekuja (they're still in my inbox)
10:13 ogra bddebian, you are on the Applied for membership list for core-dev
10:14 bddebian ogra: Aye, just waiting my turn :-)
10:14 mdz bddebian: oh, you applied before the previous meeting
10:14 Keybuk mdz: we didn't have a TB meeting two weeks ago, so bddebian didn't get processed
10:14 mdz right-o
10:14 Keybuk so bddebian has actually applied since the last TB meeting that took place
10:14 mdz bddebian: in that case you are next
10:15 bddebian OK. Well I don't have as fancy of a wiki as crimsun :-)
10:15 bddebian In fact mine is severely out of date
10:15 mdz bddebian: indeed, your wiki link from launchpad is broken :-)
10:15 bddebian It is?
10:15 bddebian Hmm
10:15 bddebian https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarrydeFreese
10:16 mdz it links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bddebian
10:16 highvoltage https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod ?
10:16 mdz which does not exist
10:16 mdz however, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod does
10:16 bddebian Scary
10:16 ogra lol
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10:16 mdz bddebian: what has motivated you to apply for -core-dev?
10:17 bddebian Several things but probably the largest is bug fixes for some of the "less loved" packages
10:17 bddebian I was hoping to help out with X but I don't think that is going to be feasable
10:17 Keybuk do you have particular bug fixes in mind?
10:17 bddebian Anything and everything I can get my hands on
10:18 mdz bddebian: do you have any specific goals or areas where you plan to work?
10:18 bddebian What I run into a lot of times are small bug fixes (ie kscd) that I have fixes for
10:18 mjg59 bddebian: Which less loves packages do you think are currently in main, and do you have your eye on any in particular?
10:19 bddebian This is going to sound cheesy, but no. I kind of like hitting all the packages that don't see a great deal of attention. Kind of the Ubuntu QA Group :-)
10:19 Keybuk bddebian: have you been making patches for those fixes and attaching them to the bug in Malone?
10:19 bddebian Yes
10:19 Keybuk do you have any examples?
10:19 mdz bddebian: have you made uploads to main through a sponsor?
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10:20 bddebian Ack, what is up with LP
10:21 bddebian https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kscd/+bug/37963
10:21 Ubugtu Malone bug 37963 in kscd "[patch] song title partially hidden" [Normal,Confirmed]
10:21 bddebian https://launchpad.net/people/bddebian/+packages
10:22 bddebian mdz: I'm not sure I can say that "officially", no
10:23 mdz bddebian: what do you mean?
10:23 bddebian I mean I don't know that someone officially sponsered a main upload for me
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10:24 mdz bddebian: so to date, you haven't had cause to upload a package to main?
10:24 bddebian Other than bugfixes, no
10:25 mjg59 bddebian: How do you think core-dev membership would significantly increase your workflow?
10:26 bddebian Well one of the things that I find frustrating is having to bother people for simple fixes for things. Let me clarify this a little.
10:26 mdz bddebian: if you have contributions to make to main, the first logical step would be to have them reviewed and uploaded by an existing -core-dev member
10:26 Keybuk bddebian: a lot of your changes so far have been relatively minor bug fixes. core-dev often involves quite major changes to packages, or even packaging new software. Do you have any examples of packages you created from scratch, or patches you've written for particularly deep bugs in the source?
10:27 bddebian mdz: That would be provided I could find someone with the time
10:27 mdz bddebian: has that been a problem for you in the past?
10:27 mjg59 bddebian: As we've seen, other people appear to manage this
10:28 bddebian mdz: Yes
10:28 bddebian mjg59: Aye and maybe I just irritate people I don't know. I've tried to understand that
10:28 mjg59 bddebian: Ok. It would be good to hear from people who've reviewed your patches to stuff in main
10:28 bddebian Keybuk: Probably not significantly enough no
10:29 mdz bddebian: have you approached someone for assistance with an upload and been declined?
10:30 bddebian mdz: No, not outright that I can think of
10:31 bddebian Well it appears that we are wasting peoples time, so no worries, I can try harder for Edgy I suppose.
10:32 mdz bddebian: I think that a good first step would be to work with someone to review and upload your packages to main. If you need help in finding someone, I can help with that
10:33 mjg59 bddebian: What would help a great deal is having people who are willing to comment on the quality of your work so far in main
10:33 bddebian mjg59: Well to Keybuk's point, I suppose none of them have been significant enough.
10:33 mdz bddebian: you have made a substantial contribution to universe and that is appreciated, but it would be best to start working in main before applying for direct upload rights
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10:34 Keybuk indeed, I'd like to second mdz's comment that your work in universe is very much appreciated! keep it up
10:35 bddebian Is there any chance of at least getting a Universe archive admin so we don't have to bother core-devs with syncs and removals?
10:35 mdz bddebian: if you have any fixes for main, I'd be happy to help you get them reviewed and uploaded
10:36 bddebian OK, thanks folks.
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10:37 Keybuk bddebian: the trouble with that is that the only difference between main and universe from a LP point of view is just a field in the database. So there's no way to separate them via access control for the dedicated tools at this time
10:37 Keybuk once the Web UI exposes syncs and removals, it should be trivial
10:37 Keybuk I believe that is on the cards
10:37 bddebian OK, thanks
10:37 Keybuk we literally just use tools that muck around with SQL at the moment
10:37 mjg59 Ok. Is that it for core-dev?
10:38 mdz there doesn't seem to be a backlog on ubuntu-archive at the moment
10:38 mdz bddebian: thank you, and please do get in touch with me if you need any assistance
10:38 bddebian Sure
10:39 mdz is Fred Chu here?
10:40 mdz if not, Bluekuja is up for ubuntu-dev
10:40 mjg59 Let's go with Bluekuja and then we can come back if necessary
10:40 Bluekuja I've made a lot on some packages related to irc and bittorrent(it would be great to maintain some of them in universe), they are v2strip , anope, cog, gtorrent-viewer, ctorrent(gtorrent, anope are still in revu, soon others). I'm working with sfllaw (and chistoph Hass) that advocates me also for debian, where I'm developing gtorrent.(he reviews my packages)
10:40 Bluekuja I'm an uploader also in fedora extras repositories, there are already some of mine packages inside( gtorrent, and v2strip) and right now I'm building eggdrop, another irc bot.
10:41 mdz Bluekuja: it looks like you're interested in edubuntu?
10:41 Bluekuja mdz: exactly, I work for the edubuntu italian team
10:41 Bluekuja with advocacy in schools and meetings
10:41 ogra mdz, Bluekuja is active with documentation transalations and stuff in edubuntu since a while
10:42 Bluekuja ogra: thanks :)
10:42 mdz ogra: have you sponsored uploads for him?
10:42 ogra nope
10:42 Bluekuja mdz: i work on packages with simon law
10:42 mdz sfllaw: ping?
10:42 sfllaw Pong.
10:42 sfllaw So...
10:43 sfllaw I've looked at Bluekuja's gtorrentviewer package.
10:43 sfllaw And we've gone through it over a couple of iterations.
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10:43 sfllaw It's good enough to get into universe, I think.
10:43 mdz Bluekuja: is that your first package?
10:44 Bluekuja mdz: nope, I've made also a lot of other packages that have to be reviewed
10:44 ogra have you got anything on revu ?
10:45 Bluekuja ogra: gtorrent-viewer, anope
10:46 mdz Bluekuja: anope is a new package?
10:46 Bluekuja mdz: what do you mean? new version or new package?
10:47 mdz Bluekuja: the description for it is not very clear; what does it do?
10:47 mdz Bluekuja: I mean new package
10:47 Bluekuja mdz: it's one of the most famous irc services
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10:47 Bluekuja that supports all big servers
10:47 Bluekuja like ircd-hybrid etc
10:48 mdz Bluekuja: what does it do?
10:48 ogra looks like a bot collection
10:48 Bluekuja it provides chanserv, nickserv, hostserv
10:48 Bluekuja opserv
10:48 Bluekuja and botserv
10:48 mdz Bluekuja: that means nothing to people who do not already know what those terms mean :-)
10:48 Bluekuja mdz: sorry for the desc, I'll fix it as soon as possible :)
10:49 mdz Bluekuja: the description also needs to be wrapped; it's a single line of hundreds of characters
10:49 Bluekuja mdz: i work in irc stuff and so I'm really familiar
10:49 Bluekuja ok perfect, It will be fixed
10:50 Bluekuja i'm working right now on eggdrop
10:51 Bluekuja that is an irc bot, that supports tcl scripts and c modules
10:51 mdz Bluekuja: what are you doing with it?
=== ogra wonders why lintian didnt complain about the lenght ... but thats OT
10:51 Bluekuja ogra: yeah exactly
10:51 mdz ogra: submit@bugs.debian.org
10:51 ogra :)
10:51 Bluekuja mdz: :D
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10:51 mdz Bluekuja: hmm?
10:52 Bluekuja mdz: i was saying that I'm currently developing some bots
10:52 Bluekuja of course related to the irc world
10:52 Bluekuja i want to provide a lot of packages for universe
10:53 mdz Bluekuja: I think it would be beneficial to spend more time working with MOTU and others to have your work reviewed and gain more experience with packaging before making unsupervised uploads
10:53 mdz Bluekuja: I'm sure sfllaw will gladly continue to give you feedback on your work
10:53 Keybuk mdz++
10:53 Bluekuja mdz: ok perfect
10:54 mdz Bluekuja: ogra always welcomes Edubuntu contributions as well :-)
10:54 ogra :)
10:54 Keybuk I agree; continue working with sfllaw, and work a bit more with the MOTU, and you should gain the necessary experience in no time
10:54 sfllaw That he does.
10:54 ogra indeed ! :)
10:55 Bluekuja mdz,keybuk: ok great
10:55 mdz Bluekuja: feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need assistance
10:55 mdz Bluekuja: and thanks for your work so far
10:56 Bluekuja mdz: ok, thanks very much, I'll try to gain more experience in this weeks
10:56 mdz Bluekuja: great!
10:56 mdz is there anyone else here who is newly applying for membership in ubuntu-{core-,}dev?
10:56 Bluekuja mdz: ;) , i have to go now, have a good evening
10:57 Bluekuja cya guys
10:57 highvoltage bye Bluekuja
10:57 ogra ciao Bluekuja
10:57 mdz \sh is on the agenda, but not here?
10:57 ogra looks like
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10:57 mdz ok, perhaps at the next meeting then
10:58 mdz siretart: you wanted to discuss backports?
10:58 siretart mdz: yes
10:58 siretart mdz: first, I wanted to ask if there is currently a problem with -backports
10:58 siretart there hasn't been any request processed since quite some time, jdong told me
10:58 mdz siretart: this proposal sounds familiar
10:59 mdz I believe we talked about it before
10:59 mdz I support the idea of -core-dev being able to upload new source to backports
10:59 Keybuk can core-dev not do that today?
10:59 mdz Keybuk: as a matter of policy, to date we have limited backports to syncs
10:59 mdz and indeed, diverging source for backports should be avoided as much as is practical
10:59 Keybuk I guess there's no LP queue for "unapproved backports"
11:00 mdz siretart: when soyuz was first deployed, there was a delay before syncs could be processed, but as far as I know, syncs to backports should be working fine
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
11:00 mdz siretart: requests should be made to ubuntu-archive, rather than elmo, though
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11:00 LaserJock one thing I've found frustrating was there was at least one package I wanted backported but a couple of the deps had been renamed
11:00 mdz siretart: can you communicate that to jdong?
11:01 siretart mdz: well, I imagined 'syncs' to backports arn't really syncs, because they involve fiddling with debian/changelog
11:01 siretart mdz: I told him that syncs are now handled via launchpad and ubuntu archive, but I havn't seen him forwarding bugs yet.
11:01 mdz siretart: if there are any outstanding backport requests, they should be filed in Malone and ubuntu-archive subscribed, as with other archive requests
11:01 siretart mdz: I'll tell him again, no problem
11:02 siretart ok, what about 'manual' uploads of -core-dev's to -backports?
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11:02 mdz siretart: <mdz> I support the idea of -core-dev being able to upload new source to backports
11:02 mdz however: <mdz> and indeed, diverging source for backports should be avoided as much as is practical
11:03 ogra didnt we discuss that in montreal already ?
11:03 mjg59 I have a vague query about the numbering mentioned in the proposal
11:03 mjg59 Oh, actually, no I don't
11:03 siretart ogra: with what result?
11:03 mdz siretart: can you expand on your question about review?
11:04 ogra siretart, no idea i just remember a discussion there and mdz saying he'd be ok with core-dev uploading
11:04 siretart mdz: well, currently every upload to dapper-updates gets into a 'poket' for manual review, AIUI. do we need that for -backports as well?
11:05 siretart I'm not sure, and I tend to believe that we don't
11:05 mdz siretart: given that backports is disabled by default, and therefore opt-in, I don't think the same caution is needed
11:05 siretart ok
11:05 mdz if the only uploads are sync requests from the backports team, or uploads from -core-dev, I'm happy for them to go straight in
11:06 siretart ok. great
11:06 siretart there is another suggestion. how about opening edgy-backports after edgy's UVF?
11:06 siretart during processing UVF request for dapper, there were quite some requests, which didn't fit for dapper, but for dapper-updates
11:07 siretart users would have been happy if they could have had them there..
11:07 mdz siretart: I have no objection there
11:07 siretart s/dapper-updates/dapper-backports/ that is
11:07 mdz of course
11:08 mdz siretart: edgy-backports may even appear when edgy opens, though it wouldn't make much sense to upload to it just yet
11:08 siretart right. it makes only sense after UVF
11:08 mdz siretart: ping me at UVF if there's any blockage in uploading to edgy-backports
11:09 siretart mdz: will do
11:09 siretart is dapper-backports already open for uploads?
11:09 mdz siretart: do you think your proposal can be turned into a how-to document for backports?
11:10 mdz siretart: it should be, yes
11:10 siretart mdz: I can style that up and rename it to BackportsHowto, no problem
11:10 siretart ok. great
11:10 mdz siretart: excellent, thanks...presumably you'll talk it over with ubuntu-backporters as well?
11:11 mdz siretart: are the members of that team still active?
11:11 siretart mdz: ubuntu backporters is jdong, and mez AFAIK. they both seem to be rather MIA recently..
11:11 ogra mez did an evil upload to universe of an unreviewed package just before dapper release ... so he's still alive at least
11:12 Riddell mez is moving house just now
11:12 siretart ah. ok
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11:12 mdz siretart: thanks for bringing the issue to our attention; I didn't realize there was confusion about how backports requests were to be handled now
11:12 mdz siretart: are all of your questions answered?
11:12 siretart I'll apply for ubuntu-backports as well
11:13 siretart mdz: all questions answered. thanks!
11:13 mdz great
11:13 mdz any other business from anyone?
11:14 ogra lets free the room for kubuntu :)
11:14 imbrandon ;)
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11:14 highvoltage goodnight everyone!
11:14 siretart just a last question - does anyone remember how to apply for ubuntu-backports team?
11:14 kmon hi
11:14 ogra ciao highvoltage
11:14 kmon did the meeting started?
11:14 mdz siretart: it seems to be restricted
11:14 imbrandon kmon: TB just ending
11:14 Lure hi kmon - kubuntu meeting will start soon
11:14 kmon oh
11:15 mdz siretart: talk to jdong; it should probably be moderated instead
11:15 kmon I've just arrived home
11:15 siretart mdz: I'll sort that out with jdong. he seem to irc from time to time..
11:15 toma kmon: i just hear from reliable sources, that we will start in a minute
11:15 ogra he was here yesterday
11:15 mdz siretart: if you can't get in touch with him or mez to change it, let me know
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11:15 siretart ok. will do
11:15 mdz thanks, everyone
11:15 mdz adjournedMeetingLogs/Technical_2006-06-06 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:29:46 by localhost)