UbuntuDev-2006-09-07
(19:01:20) mdz: good evening, folks (19:01:27) sfllaw: Evening. (19:01:30) sfllaw: How was Black Rock? (19:01:31) pitti: good evening everyone (19:01:48) mdz: my holidays were excellent, but I'm back in full-on work mode now (19:01:50) tormod [n=tormod@80-219-112-71.dclient.hispeed.ch] entered the room. (19:01:58) mdz: we have a lot of ground to cover, with feature freeze upon us (19:02:04) infinity [n=adconrad@loki.0c3.net] entered the room. (19:02:16) Jucato left the room ("Konversation terminated!"). (19:02:18) mdz: so we'll dive right in (19:02:19) mdz: infinity: welcome (19:02:30) mdz: pitti: would you start us off? (19:02:33) iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] entered the room. (19:03:01) iwj: Hi. Sorry I'm a bit late ... (19:03:12) pitti: sure (19:03:15) mdz: iwj: we're just getting started (19:03:17) pitti: Done: (19:03:17) pitti: * started to catch up with security updates after the two weeks break: PHP, bind, kernel (just coordination), mailman, libxfont/X.org, imagemagick, openssl, MySQL (19:03:17) pitti: * apport: implemented bug pattern matching backend and GUI (so that apport-gtk directs you to an already existing bug rather than asking you to file a new one) (19:03:17) pitti: * SoC reviews and reports (19:03:18) pitti: * merged cupsys and updated to 1.2.3; not yet uploaded since I have to fix a regression (19:03:20) pitti: Todo: (19:03:22) pitti: * more security updates (arrgh) (19:03:24) pitti: * catch up on my overflowing bugs inbox (19:03:26) pitti: * finish cups 1.2.3 and upload (19:03:28) pitti: * fix high-profile langpack-o-matic bug and prepare new packages (BLOCKED: *-updates embargo; mdz?) (19:03:31) pitti: * ensure that php and mysql get new upstream versions (infinity or I) (19:03:33) pitti: * finish gnutls12->13 transition (19:03:37) pitti: * start bug fixing (19:03:39) pitti: spec status: (19:03:41) pitti: * apt-get-debug-symbols (Deployment): distro side is ready, needs buildd infrastructure work to get .ddebs to people.u.c (to be implemented next week with infinity) (19:03:42) mdz: pitti: how much remains in the queue for security? (19:03:44) pitti: * automated-problem-reports (Implemented): does not yet catch all corner cases, this requires an updated kernel implementation which will (most likely) be deferred to Edgy+1; but basic functionality is working apart from some bugs (19:03:48) pitti: * gcc-ssp (Implemented): Distro side changes are implemented for a long time; still need to check current build coverage, and perhaps do no-change uploads to important packages (19:03:51) pitti: * auto-unmount-notifications (Implemented): works a bit too good (also for readonly devices), but I consider that a bug (19:03:54) ***pitti is happy to be the first one the first time (19:04:01) Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] entered the room. (19:04:14) pitti: mdz: the kernel still needs to be pushed out, some embargoed stuff that is lifted next week, and about 5 public issues (19:04:30) pitti: mdz: (I don't have the exact number in my head, I just work through them case by case) (19:04:45) mdz: pitti: looks like you are in good shape for feature freeze, congrats (19:04:54) pitti: mdz: will you say some words about the *-update embargo? (19:04:57) pitti: mdz: thanks :) (19:05:15) mdz: we're in the process of revising and formalizing the process for updates to stable releases (19:05:19) pitti: mdz: do infinity and I have your blessing to implement the .ddeb retrieval later? (19:05:30) mdz: until that work is finished, only security fixes are permitted (19:05:37) pitti: mdz: I hope it won't be too heavy for langpack updates ;) (19:05:46) mdz: queue any -updates uploads locally until then (19:05:48) pitti: but I totally agree that we should revise the policy (19:06:21) pitti: we should also do a dry run of that proposed 'block bad versions with a fake version on security.u.c' approach (19:06:47) mdz: I'm going to focus on prevention, though we'll think through some contingency plans (19:06:56) mdz: KISS will apply though (19:07:23) mdz: pitti: thank you (19:07:27) mdz: Mithrandir: next? (19:07:29) Mithrandir: live-cd-write-as-you-go: Needs a fair bit of infrastructure before it can happen, namely an udflinux similar to isolinux. (19:07:33) Mithrandir: misc: X bugfixes. Rodarvus and I seem to have divided the workload so he gets the server and drivers, I get the apps and libs. Also played a fair bit with Xen. Casper bugfixes. Helped Colin a bit with sane-installer-keyboard (but he's done most of the implementation, by far) (19:07:38) Mithrandir: next week: bug triage, Knot 3 release in a week. (19:07:53) Mithrandir: l-c-w-a-y-g is therefore deferred (19:08:03) mdz: Mithrandir: how did knot 2 go? (19:08:36) Mithrandir: decent; some last-minute changes which I in retrospect wish I'd asked to postpone, but it wasn't too painful. (19:08:53) mdz: Mithrandir: how about the testing in the certification lab? (19:09:04) mdz: is that working out? (19:09:22) Mithrandir: yeah, slowly. (19:09:32) mdz: how are they reporting their results? (19:09:33) Mithrandir: as in, getting there. (19:09:39) Mithrandir: the wiki, as usual. (19:09:59) Mithrandir: at least, that's been the goal. I need to be better at cleaning the grid when we build a new iso (19:10:10) mdz: add it to the checklist (19:10:28) Mithrandir: also, we uncovered some brokenness in Launchpad, but I think that's fixed now (19:10:31) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room. (19:10:32) Mithrandir: infinity: ^^? (19:10:59) infinity: Mithrandir: The frozen breakage? Not sure if those fixes have been rolled out, I'll chase that up before we try to freeze again. (19:11:26) mdz: please subscribe me to the relevant bugs if they're causing release blockage (19:11:36) Mithrandir: infinity: yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Basically, FROZEN doesn't work. And I can't freeze the distro. (19:11:53) Mithrandir: both being kinda problematic if I'm going to drive the release. (19:11:54) mdz: Mithrandir: did you have that UI review with mpt regarding live-cd-sessions? (19:12:29) Mithrandir: mdz: I thought I sent that mail, but I never chased it up, so either he never got it or forgot. I'll do that even though we're post-FF. (19:13:01) mdz: give him some time to think on it, it'll be good to have on hand when we resume that (19:13:05) mdz: thanks Mithrandir (19:13:08) mdz: infinity: next (19:13:22) infinity: Done: (19:13:22) infinity: * debian-maintainer-field: Maintainer field mangling is in the archive and active on the buildds, and working as advertised. (19:13:25) infinity: * live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Just recieved word that elmo has given me the kernel support I need on the buildds, so will roll this out in production after I've slept today. (19:13:29) infinity: * larger-livefs: Still needs creation of a seed for live-dvd, but when live-cd-stacked-filesystems is rolled out, this one basically takes care of itself. (19:13:32) infinity: * A fair amount of buildd wrangling this week, unsnaring the usual "new GNOME breakage", dealing with chroots not updating properly, etc. (19:13:36) infinity: * General weekly tasks (archive maintenance, tracking soyuz bugs and misfeatures, etc) (19:13:39) infinity: Todo: (19:13:41) infinity: * New upstream releases of PHP, MySQL, and Samba, all done in Debian, just need to get UVFs and quickly merge/sync them. (19:13:44) infinity: * Make sure live-cd-stacked-filesystems/larger-livefs actually work in production. (19:13:47) infinity: * Attack bug lists and FTBFS lists. (19:13:49) ***infinity subscribed mdz to the FROZEN bug. (19:13:54) PWill left the room (quit: Client Quit). (19:13:54) mdz: (thanks) (19:14:22) mdz: Mithrandir: have you been able to test your portion of live-cd-stacked-filesystems at all, or is that blocked on having them built on the buildds? (19:14:42) goldenear left the room. (19:14:59) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room. (19:15:03) Mithrandir: mdz: I have tested it with locally built images. (19:15:04) pitti: infinity: (for the record, we do have the php UVF ER) (19:15:19) pitti: infinity: ... approval) (19:15:29) mdz: infinity: go ahead and create the dvd seed; it should have all language-{support,pack} for all languages (19:15:30) infinity: pitti: Yeah, I know, but we don't for the other two, and I'm a lazy typist. :) (19:15:31) Mithrandir: mdz: I haven't tested it with official images, naturally, since we don't have them yet. (19:15:37) mdz: Mithrandir: right, thanks (19:15:52) seb128: infinity: what causes the "new GNOME breakage"? The stricts Depends between arch all and any packages? (19:16:13) PWill left the room (quit: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). (19:16:14) mdz: infinity: check with Kamion if you're in doubt about the germination (19:16:34) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room. (19:16:35) pitti: infinity: will the dvd seed be a superset of the CD seed, or an independent copy? (19:16:36) infinity: seb128: Yeah, when arches get a bit out of sync, the world explodes and I get to unsnag it all by hand. It's something I'm generally used to. When new GNOME hits, I tend to get to dedicate a couple of days to making it happy everywhere. (19:16:40) Kamion: the appropriate runes are in the supported seed (19:16:53) Kamion: pitti: live-dvd would inherit from live, technically (19:16:55) mdz: pitti: it will be an independent seed, but stacked on top of the existing live image (19:17:02) pitti: Kamion: that's good (19:17:12) pitti: so no duplication AFAIUI (19:17:16) mdz: right (19:17:17) seb128: infinity: would delay upload between libs and app make the job easier for you? (19:17:23) foo left the room. (19:17:47) infinity: seb128: It could help a bit, but unless you want to stagger your uploads by days, something will always break. *shrug* (19:17:54) seb128: k (19:18:00) seb128: so not a lot we can do for you :/ (19:18:07) infinity: seb128: To be honest, I prefer to see you and Daniel just upload as much as you can and get back to bugfixing while I do my job. (19:18:13) mdz: infinity: ok, thanks (19:18:16) ***dholbach hugs infinity (19:18:17) mdz: dholbach: next (19:18:17) seb128: ok, fine with me (19:18:18) infinity: seb128: Each to their strengths. :) (19:18:21) dholbach: Done: (19:18:21) dholbach: * GNOME 2.16 (19:18:21) dholbach: * Bugs (19:18:21) dholbach: * Artwork uploads and work on Art-Builder (19:18:21) dholbach: Todo: (19:18:21) dholbach: * more Bug Triage (19:18:22) ***seb128 hugs infinity too (19:18:24) dholbach: * more Art-Builder (19:18:25) dholbach: * REVU DAY tomorrow! (19:18:29) dholbach: * get new gnome-pilot in, get missing telepathy packages in before UniverseFreeze (19:18:32) dholbach: * start on apt-get.org import (19:18:34) dholbach: (19:18:56) mdz: GNOME 2.16.0 is complete? (19:19:02) sfllaw: Yay! (19:19:09) ***mvo hugs dholbach (19:19:10) dholbach: yes (19:19:15) seb128: mdz: yep (19:19:19) ***mvo hugs seb128 (19:19:24) ***seb128 is going to blog about that ;) (19:19:28) ***seb128 hugs mvo back (19:19:33) mdz: excellent, seb128/dholbach (19:19:38) dholbach: gracias :-) (19:19:48) seb128: : (19:19:49) seb128: :) (19:19:49) mdz: dholbach: how is art-builder going? that's the arrangement we discussed in wiesbaden? (19:20:07) ***pitti hugs the fabulous desktop team (19:20:15) dholbach: mdz: exactly - it's checking out and building already, but not very clever yet (it doesn't do changes to buildsystems, etc) (19:20:22) pitti: Seb'128 packages a day'astien (19:20:26) dholbach: mdz: i didn't put too much time in it yet (19:20:39) dholbach: pitti: ah ah :-P (19:21:00) mdz: dholbach: ok, send me an email when there's something to see; I'd like to look at it (19:21:05) dholbach: mdz: sure (19:21:12) mdz: thanks dholbach (19:21:16) mdz: kwwii: next (19:21:25) seb128: pitti: :) (19:21:45) kwwii: Did the Hardware Database interface pics, selected icons, edited a few and made a couple of new ones. (19:21:57) kwwii: Finished almost all (all currently used as far as I can tell) of the power manager icons (one or two still need to be done) (19:22:01) kwwii: Played with a two ideas for both versions of the usplash (19:22:01) EtienneG [n=etienne@montreal.canonical.com] entered the room. (19:22:05) kwwii: Worked on evolving the theme to the blue-purple variant (19:22:09) kwwii: Tweaking KDM and Ksplash theme (19:22:13) kwwii: TODO: (19:22:17) kwwii: USPLASH - top of the list...following questions; which version will be used? When will testing be done? (how in the hell do I get it to work on my eMac?) :-) (19:22:21) kwwii: Got Amarok running again on my machine, finishing up the work on the amarok theme (19:22:21) kwwii: Release announcement pic (19:22:21) kwwii: pics for wiki.kubuntu.org header (19:22:21) kwwii: Finish the tweaking of the "about" pages, make that match with the metabar pics (19:22:21) kwwii: Change all pics and color schemes to the blue-purple theme by knot3 (19:22:21) kwwii: the usplash is the biggest issue for me (19:22:38) fschoep: +1 (19:22:54) kwwii: fschoep: ;-) (19:22:55) ***pitti really hopes that usplash will work on amd64 soon (19:22:58) fschoep: But at least there's something happening on the art ML now (19:23:11) mdz: kwwii: of the 7 components we discussed (usplash, wallpaper, window decorations, kdm login, ksplash, app start pages, icons), how much of that has landed in edgy for feature freeze? (19:23:13) fschoep: Seveas is doing some work there (19:23:23) Seveas: My work on usplash is done (19:23:38) Seveas: mjg59 is doing the hard work (19:23:40) kwwii: mdz: all of it (19:23:51) Riddell: except usplash (19:23:53) fschoep: Seveas: OK, good to hear - glad you made it (19:23:55) kwwii: mdz: it is all tweaking and bug fixing from here on out (19:23:57) kwwii: and the usplash (19:24:00) kwwii: thanks Riddell (19:24:08) kwwii: that is why the usplash is on top of the lsit (19:24:10) kwwii: list (19:24:33) kwwii: the new usplash stuff came out last night...the big question is will that version be used? (19:24:35) mdz: kwwii: what's blocking it? testing on your machine? (19:24:43) kwwii: ie...how much time should be put into making the new version (19:24:54) mdz: my two issues with it were the virtual console corruption and hibernation breakage. (19:25:03) Kamion: kwwii: it'll be used, unless it turns out to be so buggy it's easier to revert than fix (19:25:04) kwwii: mdz: although I cannot test it on my machine, I have some basic stuff done already (19:25:05) mdz: the latter was apparently a kernel bug, and mjg59 believes the former fixed (19:25:17) kwwii: I cannot get it to run on either of my ppc machines (19:25:23) mdz: mjg59: how confident are you about it today? (19:25:29) mjg59: Mm? (19:25:32) Kamion: I was thinking of poking at it on powerpc tomorrow (19:25:34) mjg59: Oh, the console corruption? (19:25:36) mjg59: That's sorted (19:25:37) mdz: mjg59: shiny usplash (19:25:38) mdz: in general (19:25:39) mjg59: Yeah (19:25:41) mdz: for edgy feature freeze (19:25:43) Kamion: I just haven't had time before FF (19:25:45) mjg59: Works now (19:25:53) mdz: are you aware of the amd64 issue pitti mentioned? (19:25:54) mjg59: The PPC stuff is buggy but easily fixed (19:25:55) pitti: are we definitively committed to using the hi-res usplash for edgy? (19:26:04) mdz: pitti: that's what we're trying to determine (19:26:04) mjg59: I'm running it on amd64 right this second (19:26:05) kwwii: I made a usplash for the old version too, to if we have to revert, I am ready (19:26:07) pitti: ATM it works neither on my powerpc nor on my amd64 (19:26:09) mdz: this is decision time (19:26:21) kwwii: but still, everything else is done to some extent, the usplash is still the test theme (19:26:22) Kamion: I don't expect getting it to work on powerpc would take much effort (19:26:24) pitti: mjg59: oh, right, it was nvidia specific, right? (19:26:29) mdz: kwwii: ok, no need to wait then; land the high-res stuff (19:26:31) mjg59: There may be issues on specific hardware, but in general it's fine (19:26:35) Kamion: I made it work on powerpc initially way back when, and it was only a few hours' work (19:26:41) seb128: my desktop doesn't boot with the new usplash (19:26:49) mdz: seb128: filed a bug? (19:26:52) kwwii: mdz: cool, will do (19:27:04) mjg59: seb128: Is that new as in generally, or new as in since this morning? (19:27:05) seb128: mdz: not yet (19:27:10) Seveas: seb128, 'new usplash' is rather undescriptive, 4 versions landed in the past 2 days, each fixing several bugs (19:27:34) Kamion: Seveas: 5 :) (19:27:40) Seveas: heh (19:27:45) sivang: hi all (19:27:53) kwwii: it would be really cool to get it working on ppc well so that I can test what I am making (19:27:57) sivang: sorry for being late. (19:28:00) mjg59: seb128: I believe those too be fixed (19:28:01) seb128: mjg59: new from this week, but services-admin basically emptied my /etc/rc[0-6].d and I only restored a part of it so I want to reinstall before opening a bug (19:28:34) mdz: seb128: ok, please confirm this week (with a live CD if that's easiest) (19:28:35) mjg59: At the moment I'm trying to work out why a piece of previously working hardware is now failing to (as far as I can tell) even execute the Linux wakeup code (19:28:36) seb128: I get the splash followed by a black screen instead of gdm (19:28:43) mjg59: seb128: Yes, that should be fixed (19:28:43) seb128: mdz: yeah, will do tomorrow (19:29:08) mdz: kwwii: Kamion will have a try at it when he gets a chance (19:29:10) seb128: mjg59: will try after meeting with the current version to make sure (19:29:15) mdz: kwwii: if possible try on another machine (19:29:21) seb128: I might not have rebooted since the update (19:29:24) mdz: kwwii: or have Riddell email you photos :-) (19:29:33) kwwii: :-) (19:29:37) mdz: kwwii: thanks (19:29:39) mdz: fschoep: next (19:29:42) fschoep: Done: (19:29:42) fschoep: * theme-teams: collect final versions of artwork (19:29:42) fschoep: * community artwork: package best available artwork, mad props to Daniel Holbach on this one as well (19:29:42) fschoep: * community artwork: contact sabdfl on progress and direction (19:29:43) fschoep: * sound-themes: package best available sounds (19:29:43) fschoep: * gtk-theme: minor tweaks (19:29:44) fschoep: * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: finalized iconprio stuff, props to Daniel again for updating the website, contacted sabdfl along the way (19:29:47) fschoep: * ubuntu-art-complete-highcon-icons: introduced Henrik to Étienne Bersace, looks like this is going to go well (19:29:50) fschoep: Ongoing: (19:29:52) fschoep: * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: decide on color tweaks based on artwork direction (19:29:54) fschoep: * community-artwork: polish and rework parts to sabdfl's liking, fix outstanding bugs (19:29:56) fschoep: * sound-themes: tweaking and polishing of sounds (19:29:58) fschoep: * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: contact Dave to start work after sabdfl approves the scheduled list of work (19:30:01) fschoep: Blocked: (19:30:03) fschoep: * theme-teams: there seems to be no Art Council in place, who will approve theme team work for inclusion? (19:30:06) fschoep: * usplash-artwork: running to stand still - has the target stopped moving yet? (19:30:31) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat"). (19:30:46) iwj: fschoep: I saw some mails or questions from my week off about the firefox human theme; did you get the help you needed ? (19:30:54) mdz: fschoep: which components have landed in edgy today? (19:31:00) mdz: iwj: my firefox looks humanish (19:31:09) iwj: mdz: Mine too :-). (19:31:09) fschoep: iwj: Not sure what you mean? (19:31:15) dholbach: mdz: gdm, sounds, session, wallpapers, gtk theme (19:31:21) fschoep: darn (19:31:25) Ubugtu has changed the topic to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu (19:31:25) fschoep: thank dholbach (19:31:26) iwj: fschoep: Well, if you don't have anything outstanding then that's fine by me :-4~). (19:31:28) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room. (19:31:32) kwwii: good to hear that fschoep and myself are both loosing sleep over the usplash :-) (19:31:35) iwj: Oops, my mouth exploded. (19:31:36) fschoep: iwj: I wondered though (19:31:46) mdz: dholbach: and what remains to be done? (19:31:48) fschoep: iwj: Is the Human theme now default for Edgy? (19:31:52) fschoep: mdz: usplash (19:31:59) fschoep: mdz: human icons, GTK color tweaks (19:32:07) mdz: fschoep: are there candidates for usplash? (19:32:15) fschoep: mdz: some bland and ugly ones (19:32:27) fschoep: based on 16 color 640x400 restrictions (19:32:28) mdz: nothing we can roll out? (19:32:28) iwj: fschoep: Yes; I put that change into the main bzr so you'll have picked it up and as mdz says default setups get it now. (19:32:56) fschoep: mdz: we can roll something out, sure but it will hardly be better and less colorful than the test card (19:33:00) mdz: fschoep: please get a high-res one together; if nothing else we can use the standard logo and it will look better than what we have (19:33:09) Seveas: (there is a test 1024x768 + 800x600 theme in the usplash source using many of the new shiny features) (19:33:11) fschoep: mdz: sabdfl kind of disgrees there (19:33:17) mdz: fschoep: today is the deadline (19:33:30) fschoep: mdz: I think - (19:33:50) fschoep: mdz: well (19:33:54) Keybuk: remember that the usplash artwork should go in the themes packages (19:33:57) Keybuk: not in the usplash package (19:34:02) fschoep: mdz: I need some input on Mark first (19:34:14) mdz: fschoep: he's travelling and we cannot block on him (19:34:14) Seveas: Keybuk, i know -- the theme won't even build in-tree (19:34:28) Seveas: That's the reason I split off usplash-dev (19:34:30) kwwii: fschoep: I should discuss the usplash with you...from the wishes for the dapper cycle and the new 256 color, I get we could do something nice (19:34:40) kwwii: s/get/bet (19:34:41) mdz: fschoep: it's important to get this in; we can still iterate on it but need a starting point now (19:34:54) fschoep: mdz: sure, I think (19:35:10) fschoep: mdz: like, now? (19:35:17) mdz: fschoep: tomorrow (19:35:36) fschoep: mdz: OK, I'll get something in (19:35:53) mdz: fschoep: thanks; let me know if you run into trouble (19:35:58) fschoep: mdz: OK (19:36:03) mdz: Kamion: next (19:36:10) fschoep: uh (19:36:21) fschoep: Can I please get some input on the Art Council question? (19:36:26) Kamion: (waiting) (19:36:26) fschoep: Is there going to be one soon? (19:36:49) fschoep: Does anyone remotely know what the AC is going to be? (19:36:53) mdz: fschoep: you make the call on the themes to include (19:37:08) fschoep: mdz: OK (19:37:10) mdz: the release can't block on organizing a new team (19:37:14) mdz: Kamion: go ahead (19:37:16) Kamion: Done: (19:37:16) Kamion: cdrom-based-dist-upgrades: Added upgrader to CD images, thanks to a patch from mvo. (19:37:19) Kamion: no-more-devfs: Done. (19:37:22) Kamion: livefs-access: Sound support theoretically in, but it appears to produce just beeps at best and it's hideous assembly code that I don't understand, so I've disabled this. However, we did manage to improve keyboard navigation on the accessibility menu and clean up some of the access options. (19:37:27) Kamion: sane-installer-keyboard: Mostly done, apart from translations of layout and variant names, which will probably take a while to organise. We can test all the rest of it without that though. I'll push console-s (19:37:30) mdz: mvo: is c-b-d-u testable? (19:37:31) Kamion: etup up to minimal tomorrow morning once my upgrade path changes have built. (19:37:34) Kamion: live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Wrote the ubiquity side of this, which will be needed once the filesystems appear in corruption. (19:37:36) mvo: mdz: yes (19:37:37) Kamion: misc: Reviewed and merged oem-config KDE patch from abattoir. Haven't tested it yet. (19:37:40) Kamion: Deferred: (19:37:42) Kamion: ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: I decided I wasn't going to get far enough with this before FF to be worth the time right now, so I've deferred it. Oh well. (19:37:46) Kamion: To do: (19:37:48) Kamion: sane-installer-keyboard: I expect to spend much of next week sorting out loose ends here (with Tollef, if he's available). (19:37:50) mdz: mvo: does it require a dapper backport? (19:37:51) Kamion: misc: Google Summer of Code final reports, and whatever else comes up. usplash powerpc debugging, as discussed. (19:38:01) mdz: I think I mailed about this, but don't remember your reply (19:38:18) mvo: mdz: full support yes, if we are happy with documenting to run "sh /cdrom/cdromdistupgrade", then not (19:38:42) mdz: mvo: we'll want full support certainly (19:38:43) mvo: full support == hal based cd detection (19:38:54) mdz: mvo: I assume it's trivial reuse of the code we already had (19:38:59) mvo: yes (19:39:17) mvo: the patch should be easy (and the feature was done in a seperate bzr branch to make the backporting easy) (19:39:23) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat"). (19:40:05) mdz: Kamion: are you confident about sane-installer-keyboard? (19:40:11) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room. (19:40:56) Kamion: mdz: yes, reasonably. Upstream says it still has trouble with non-PC-like keymaps but that's at worst confined to powerpc. (19:41:01) Mithrandir: Kamion: I'm happy to help out with s-i-k next week, yes. (19:41:10) mdz: ogra_: landing enormous merges during the feature freeze meeting -> grr (19:41:11) Kamion: And it's *so* much easier to hack than the old console framework. (19:41:22) ogra_: mdz, sorry (19:41:27) mdz: Kamion: ok, thanks (19:41:31) mdz: ogra_: next (19:41:39) ogra_: * this-week: (19:41:40) ogra_: - student-control-panel-completion - implemented by pete savage, waits for MIR review, spec still waiting for approval (19:41:40) ogra_: - ltsp-login-and-session-handling - implemented, some cosmetic polish remains (19:41:40) ogra_: - ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration - implemented, ready for knot 3 (19:41:40) ogra_: - fully-automatic-swap-server (no info, deferred i guess :/ ) (19:41:41) ogra_: - plenty of small patches (g-p-m, gnome-session etc) (19:41:43) ogra_: * next-week: (19:41:45) ogra_: - clean up ltsp after the merges, hunt the last bugs (19:41:47) ogra_: - go through gnome-screensaver/gnome-power-manager buglist (19:41:49) ogra_: - knot 3 (19:41:51) ogra_: - flight to detroit ltsp meeting (19:41:53) ogra_: * other specs: (19:41:55) ogra_: - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs - talked to infinity, we want to meet after FF (19:41:57) ogra_: - ltsp-convergence: (no progress, multi distro meeting sept. 14th-19th) according to sbalneav only (19:42:00) ogra_: two features (rdesktop and lp_server integration (the latter is on the buglist for edgy, needs some lines in (19:42:02) Kamion: I expect the installer may glitch a bit tomorrow, but it shouldn't be hard to fix; I've run complete installs with console-setup in hacked-up environments. (19:42:05) ogra_: the initscript and testing)) and optional xdmcp support missing (19:42:07) ogra_: - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: code merged from debian (untested yet) (19:42:42) ogra_: Kamion, fine with me ... (19:42:45) mdz: ogra_: rodarvus was working on f-a-s-s, no? did he finish or pass on unfinished code? (19:42:58) unix_infidel left the room (quit: Operation timed out). (19:43:10) ogra_: mdz, he said he was nearly done since two weeks before wiesbaden, but didnt want to show me the code (19:43:29) mdz: ogra_: please send an email asking for it and CC me (19:43:32) ogra_: last edubuntu meeting (wed.) he said he'd start from scratch :/ (19:44:16) mdz: ogra_: your 3 edgy targets are all implemented, congrats (19:44:20) pitti: ogra_: do you need any urgent MIRs? (19:44:25) ogra_: mdz, ok, even though i have a workaround implemented that creates the swapfiles (19:44:36) mdz: I don't think I'll make it to the ltsp meeting (19:44:48) ogra_: so it *can* be defarred and get done rigght in edgy+1 (19:44:53) ogra_: sad :/ (19:44:55) mdz: ogra_: yes, I saw that and assumed it was fully-automatic-swap-server landing (19:44:56) zul left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (19:45:03) ogra_: roger waters will miss you :) (19:45:04) zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] entered the room. (19:45:11) mdz: tell roger hello (19:45:23) ogra_: no its just a call through the ltspfs socket to create the swapfiles (19:45:30) mdz: ogra_: you have booked your flight already, right? (19:45:30) sivang: ogra_: going to see pink floyd ?? :-) (19:45:42) ogra_: sivang, only roger :) (19:45:45) fschoep: wish you were here (19:45:48) ogra_: mdz, yup (19:45:54) ogra_: all sorted (19:45:55) mdz: ok, good (19:46:00) Adri2000 left the room (quit: "Leave, Left, Left"). (19:46:02) Keybuk: sivang: and I thought they said they didn't need no education (19:46:07) sivang: Keybuk: HAHA (19:46:08) mdz: ogra_: thanks (19:46:12) ogra_: i got a very nice mail from sbalneav today about the -convergence btw (19:46:18) mdz: has anyone heard from BenC? I sent an SMS (19:46:19) ogra_: i'll forward it to you (19:46:25) Keybuk: mdz: only earlier today (19:46:27) sivang: ogra_: is he using edubuntu ? (19:46:35) mdz: Riddell: next (19:46:43) Riddell: done: (19:46:43) Riddell: specs all implemented, except adept ones which are deferred (19:46:43) Riddell: KDE oem-config testing, Colin has merged (thanks to abattoir) (19:46:43) Riddell: kubuntu-hwdb: fixes, usability improvements and adding kwwii's artwork (19:46:46) Riddell: langpacks-desktopfile-kde: working well, reuploaded everything to pick up .desktop file edits (19:46:49) ogra_: sivang, yes, ltsp.org completely emerged to ubuntu/edubuntu everywhere now (19:46:50) Riddell: kubuntu-system-settings-usability: updated packages (thanks to sime for implementing), same for kubuntu-power-management (thanks to Lure and sebas for much work there) (19:46:53) Riddell: kubuntu-accessibility: required casper changes in (19:46:55) Riddell: KDE 4 pre-release packaged and in NEW (19:46:58) Riddell: blocked: ruby on ppc (19:47:00) Riddell: todo: (19:47:03) Riddell: REVU day (19:47:05) Riddell: koffice 1.6 beta (19:47:08) Riddell: merge KDE ubiquity with Colin's changes to GTK frontend (19:47:10) Riddell: look at moving ubuntu-docs from svn to bzr (19:47:13) Riddell: knot 3 (19:47:20) dholbach: Riddell: REVU DAY! (19:47:22) mdz: Riddell: what's wrong with ruby? (19:47:23) ***dholbach hugs Riddell (19:47:29) Kamion: KDE 4 is targeted at universe, I assume? (19:47:35) mdz: Kamion: yes (19:47:38) Riddell: mdz: doesn't compile on powerpc (19:47:41) Hobbsee: Riddell: the list of crucial "must fix" bugs for edgy, too (19:47:47) ogra_: ugh, two KDE versions ? (19:47:47) Riddell: Kamion: certainly (19:47:51) Kamion: I'll look at it tomorrow, it's my archive day (19:48:00) ogra_: that will cause confusion (19:48:06) Hobbsee: ogra_: dapper effectively runs with 3. *shrugs* (19:48:14) Riddell: ogra_: they're clearly marked as being for developers only (19:48:27) mdz: there are alternate versions of all sorts of things in universe ;-) (19:48:34) mdz: Riddell: looking good, thanks (19:48:38) mdz: seb128: next (19:48:44) seb128: Done: (19:48:44) seb128: - GNOME 2.16.0 (19:48:44) seb128: - bug triage (19:48:44) seb128: - desktop bugs fixing (19:48:44) seb128: - caught up with a part of my mails lag (19:48:45) seb128: - SoC review (19:48:47) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat"). (19:48:49) seb128: - gnome-system-tools bounty discussions and patches review (19:48:51) seb128: To Do: (19:48:53) seb128: - bug triage, bug triage, bug triage (19:48:55) seb128: - bugs fixing too (19:49:12) mdz: is SoC all wrapped up now? (19:49:21) Kamion: the final reports are due tomorrow (19:49:28) ***mvo needs to finish his review for soc (19:49:32) Kamion: so yes (19:49:37) mdz: and after that we'll have met our obligations and have nothing more to do, right? (19:49:42) ogra_: my student cheated me and told me its wednesday :) (19:49:44) Kamion: right (19:49:44) ***pitti just sent the final SoC report (19:49:51) ***seb128 too (19:49:52) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room. (19:49:53) doko: mdz: still have to cash in the money ... (19:49:57) seb128: just before the meeting (19:50:19) mdz: seb128: the g-s-t stuff is progressing, right? not blocked on me anymore (19:50:53) seb128: mdz: yeah, a package with most of the patches has been uploaded yesterday (19:51:03) mdz: oh good. I'm a bit behind on -changes (19:51:11) ogra_: is it upstart friendly now ? (19:51:37) seb128: ogra_: upstart makes no difference, does it? (19:51:37) mdz: seb128: how is the bug list? (19:51:47) seb128: ogra_: you still use update-rc.d no? (19:51:55) doko: seb128: are you aware of the gnomeVFS ABI changes? (19:51:56) Keybuk: "friendly" ? (19:52:03) ogra_: seb128, i thought it broke your upstart (19:52:10) seb128: mdz: we still have difficulties to keep it at a correct level (19:52:11) mdz: it shouldn't need any changes for this phase of upstart deployment, as i understand it (19:52:17) pitti: doko: tell us you're joking? (19:52:32) seb128: mdz: my bug mails lag was ~270 on friday (19:52:35) seb128: it's ~370 now (19:52:36) Keybuk: ogra_: it wiped his /etc/rc?.d (except for the READMEs) -- nothing to do with upstart (19:52:52) mdz: seb128: who is working on desktop triage other than you and dholbach? (19:52:55) doko: pitti: no, that's probably the reason why the OOo file selector doesn't work and OOo terminates (19:53:05) seb128: mdz: some contributors (19:53:06) ogra_: Keybuk, ah (19:53:17) seb128: some of they triage a lot and do a good job (19:53:42) seb128: ("Vassilis Pandis" by example) (19:53:47) Fujitsu: doko, I noticed that yesterday :( (19:53:54) seb128: but still, lot of bugs coming :/ (19:54:20) seb128: doko: the bonobo functions move? (19:54:21) mdz: mostly upstream? (19:54:48) seb128: mdz: yeah, we usually fix distro bugs fairly quickly (if they are an issue) (19:54:55) seb128: 95% of the bugs is upstream material (19:55:01) doko: seb128: yeah, maybe (19:55:23) seb128: doko: it's a discutable "ABI change" then ;) (19:55:40) mdz: seb128: are you and dholbach the only ones forwarding bugs upstream, or do others help as well? (19:55:40) seb128: doko: they moved some function from gnome-vfs to libbonobo which the linux linker handle fine (19:55:57) dholbach: mdz: some rare few are forwarded upstream by others (19:56:09) seb128: mdz: 2-3 contributors help on that too, but they don't do a lot of forwarding (19:56:14) doko: seb128: no, maybe the reason is dicutable, but not, that an existing application stops working; yeah, I know, our gnome law ... (19:56:14) dholbach: mdz: but we have a list of "bugs to be forwarded upstream" now and I advertised it in some places (19:56:16) mdz: we should encourage more folks to forward bugs upstream. is there a good howto? (19:56:23) mdz: dholbach: oh, good. using a tag or something? (19:56:33) dholbach: mdz: opening an empty upstream task is enough (19:56:37) dholbach: mdz: you can search for them (19:56:44) seb128: mdz: opening an upstream task not linked to any bug as discussed in wiesbaden (19:56:55) dholbach: mdz: for "you can get involved here" tasks we use 'ubuntulove' :-) (19:56:59) mdz: you can search for that now? (19:57:09) seb128: looks like ;) (19:57:18) mdz: oh, look at that. wonderful (19:57:25) mdz: we should advertise that more widely (19:57:36) mdz: need to move on though (19:57:39) mdz: thanks seb128 (19:57:41) mdz: sfllaw: next (19:57:46) sfllaw: Done: (19:57:47) sfllaw: * Bug triage (19:57:47) sfllaw: * Looked into interns at Cégep John Abbott (19:57:47) sfllaw: * Various meetings (19:57:47) sfllaw: To do: (19:57:49) sfllaw: * Bug triage (19:57:52) sfllaw: * Prepare for UbuntuHugDay (19:57:54) sfllaw: * Work with seb128 and dholbach to get a desktop triaging team in place (19:57:57) sfllaw: * Get in touch with LaptopTestingTeam for installer testing (19:58:04) mdz: sfllaw: let's make bug forwarding a highlight of this next bug day (19:58:12) sfllaw: Sounds like a good plan. (19:58:25) sfllaw: I'll construct some searches for that. (19:58:34) mdz: thanks (19:58:37) mdz: especially desktop team bugs (19:58:46) dholbach: i added them to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs (19:58:46) ***pitti wonders whether it's feasible to pythonize bug forwarding :) (19:58:48) mdz: that requires only registering in one upstream bug tracker to forward lots of bugs (19:59:05) sfllaw: Well, either GNOME or KDE. (19:59:19) mdz: right (19:59:32) sfllaw: Riddell: What are good search parameters for KDE bugs? (19:59:46) Riddell: sfllaw: how do you mean? (19:59:49) dholbach: kubuntu-team bugs (19:59:50) mdz: sfllaw: were you in the loop on the milestone testing in montreal? how did it go from your perspective? (19:59:59) sladen: pitti: single-page edit-describtion, edit-subject, click, go, Wizard for that in LP would be wonderful (20:00:21) Riddell: kubuntu-team is subscribed to the important stuff (20:00:21) sfllaw: mdz: With the certification lab? No, I think I missed the memo. (20:00:30) sfllaw: mdz: I'll talk to them in person. (20:00:41) mdz: sladen: filing bugs is easy; it's establishing communication between upstream and the reporter which is hard (20:00:59) mdz: sfllaw: ok. the general plan is that they should test on the lab machines when we do a milestone (20:00:59) Hobbsee: Riddell: sometimes. often not a lot. (20:01:12) sfllaw: mdz: If jbailey is cool with that, I'm happy. (20:01:15) mdz: for hardware issues specifically as well as the usual functional test (20:01:29) mdz: sfllaw: jbailey and I agreed on this in mallorca, it's a done deal (20:01:53) zul_ left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (20:01:55) rexbron left the room (quit: Connection timed out). (20:01:56) doko: sfllaw: please could you document the when-do-i-close/reject-a-bug-report? (20:02:03) mdz: we basically need to do it anyway to keep up certifications, and we can get a lot of general testing along the way for free (20:02:17) zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] entered the room. (20:02:29) mdz: sfllaw: ok, thanks (20:02:39) mdz: zul: next? (20:02:51) zul: Done: (20:02:54) zul: * kernel security patches (20:02:56) zul: * kernel security testing (20:02:58) zul: * kernel bug triaging (20:03:01) zul: * new xen-tools fixing (20:03:03) zul: * new xen snapshot (20:03:06) zul: To-Do: (20:03:09) zul: xen-restricted moduels (20:03:11) zul: more drivers for the xen kernel (20:03:13) zul: xen rcs control (20:03:16) mdz: zul: is there a howto for how to try out xen? (20:03:16) zul: xen bug fixing (20:03:22) zul: yes its on the wiki (20:03:37) Mithrandir: zul: do you want my x-r-m stuff or do you have something mostly-working already? (20:03:53) mdz: zul: I suggest highlighting it in this week's UWN to get people interested (20:04:06) zul: Mithrandir: can you send me your xrm stuff im trying to get the new snapshot working again (20:04:07) Burgwork left the room (quit: Connection timed out). (20:04:09) zul: mdz: sure (20:04:14) mdz: zul: cool, thanks (20:04:20) mdz: mvo: next (20:04:25) mvo: Did: (20:04:25) mvo: - Implemented CDRom support in dist-upgrader and put it onto the CD (20:04:25) mvo: - dist-upgrader testing (20:04:25) mvo: - update-manager improvments (better dist-upgrader integration, better cache representation) (20:04:25) mvo: - added printer-sharing to gnome-cups-manager (20:04:26) mvo: - implemented apt--install-recommends support for only certain sections (to implement meta-packages recommends support) (20:04:29) mvo: - added recommends-support to germinate (20:04:31) mvo: - bug triage (20:04:33) mvo: - SoC mentoring (apt-sync) (20:04:35) mvo: - misc stuff (synaptic,gnome-app-install,dist-upgrader fixes, command-not-found) (20:04:37) mvo: Specs: (20:04:39) mvo: - cdrom-based-dist-upgrades (ready, needs testing) (20:04:41) mvo: - dependency-removal (aptitude needs performance tuning, otherwise ready; will display auto-remove list if non-empty and give hint to use apt-get autoremove) (20:04:46) mvo: - gai-popcon: implemented, we could do with more people using popocon (20:04:48) mvo: - recommends-support (ready, only turned by default for meta-packages now) (20:04:50) mvo: - apt-ddtp (ready, seb128 discovered it today. the rosetta<->souyz think it not automatic yet, but needs manual updating) (20:04:53) mvo: - command-not-found-magic (in the archive) (20:04:55) mvo: - simple-popcon-participation (done) (20:04:57) mvo: Will do: (20:04:59) mvo: - bugs (20:05:01) mvo: - test the auto-dist-upgrade testing going on a official machine (20:05:01) iwj: mvo: is g-a-i fixed now ? :-) (20:05:07) zul left the room (quit: Client Quit). (20:05:14) mvo: iwj: *shhhhsss* (20:05:39) mdz: mvo: most of your stuff is in a state of landed-but-needs-testing...I suggest the same as for zul; get the word out about these features and encourage folks to test (20:05:51) mdz: UWN, -devel-announce, as appropriate (20:05:59) mdz: there's some cool stuff in there (20:06:22) mvo: I will do that (20:06:24) mdz: thanks mvo (20:06:27) Kamion: I should do that with s-i-k too (20:06:28) mdz: iwj: next (20:06:28) ***mvo considers getting a blog (20:06:32) mdz: Kamion: indeed (20:06:40) mdz: there's no rule that we can't have more than one feature of the week in UWN ;-) (20:06:41) iwj: week after the sprint: was on holiday (20:06:42) iwj: package-dependency-field-breaks: Changes to apt and aptitude now properly done: apt changes to support Break fully (from wiesbaden, now tested, working) and aptitude changes to treat it like Conflicts. List of packages constructed for deployment for edgy upgrades - about a dozen in required and standard are my first ones to look at. (20:06:47) iwj: suggest-packages-for-filetypes: Completed during the sprint (thanks to mvo for some optimisations to improve gnome-app-install's speed too) but unfortunately broken since. mvo has the token atm for gnome-app-install atm AIUI, which is the last thing still to be put back to working. (20:06:52) iwj: automated-testing-deployment: No change since last report. (20:06:54) iwj: next week: firefox beta 2 (joy) (needs uvf exception, obviously); taking a look at the bug lists; trying out Breaks (let's try again) in a package or two, to check all is well before doing it a bit more widely; etc. (20:06:58) iwj: if I'm really lucky: automated-testing: packaging the xen setup scripts into autopkgtest (20:07:08) mdz: iwj: the last apt upload I saw said that the breaks changes were untested; is that no longer true? (20:07:29) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat"). (20:07:37) iwj: There's nothing in the archive that uses the breaks changes but I have tested them locally and they DTRT. (20:07:44) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room. (20:07:56) mvo: iwj: sorry for the breakage, I will fix that tomorrow (20:08:02) iwj: mvo: NP :-) (20:08:23) mdz: ok, please land at least one Breaks this week (leaving time to see the effects before you go for the weekend) to start exercising it (20:08:33) iwj: mdz: Right, willdo. (20:08:46) PWill left the room (quit: Client Quit). (20:08:54) mdz: iwj: is there still hope of seeing a final firefox for edgy? (20:09:02) iwj: mdz: I haven't been following ff upstream. (20:09:06) iwj: So I don't know. (20:09:07) mdz: the last I heard from them they hoped to land it before our final date, but it sounded awfully close (20:09:13) iwj: Heh heh. (20:09:23) Kamion: iwj: feels to me like we should avoid Breaks in required and important for now, since that could be in dpkg/apt's dependency chain (20:09:24) iwj: I think we'll just have to go with whatever beta is available, really. (20:09:29) dholbach: there was a new version to experimental, no? (20:09:40) Kamion: at least, extreme care would be called for there (20:09:42) iwj: Kamion: That shouldn't be a problem, really. Talk about it tomorrow morning ? (20:09:47) Kamion: iwj: sure (20:09:53) Kamion: when we're both more awake (20:09:57) iwj: Quite. (20:10:00) mdz: ok (20:10:17) mdz: iwj: so -breaks can go to beta status once it's being exercised in the archive, and you'll be ok for FF (20:10:28) iwj: Right. (20:10:31) zul [n=bob@ubuntu/member/zul] entered the room. (20:10:41) iwj: I'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow. (20:10:46) mdz: great, thanks (20:10:48) mdz: doko: next (20:10:54) iwj: 01:09 <iwj> I'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow. (20:10:54) iwj: 01:09 <mdz> great, thanks (20:11:01) iwj: Err, sorry :-). (20:11:04) doko: - this week (20:11:04) doko: - edgy-toolchain: address libstdc++ ABI issues on powerpc and sparc; mcpp (20:11:04) doko: update (20:11:04) doko: - java-roadmap: provide a 32bit java runtime on amd64 (20:11:04) doko: - openoffice.org - OOo 2.0.4 rc1 packages, ia32-libs updates, (20:11:04) doko: -l10n and -amd64 updates for dapper-proposed, test builds on all (20:11:06) doko: release architectures, testing on i386 and powerpc, work around (20:11:10) doko: sparc problems with smp kernels. (20:11:12) doko: build problems: OOo currently only builds on the machines in the (20:11:14) doko: datacenter, not on fresh edgy installs. same problem we had in (20:11:16) doko: dapper at the end. (20:11:18) doko: - python2.5 added as a supported python version. python2.5 related (20:11:20) doko: rebuilds scheduled for tonight. (20:11:22) doko: - other: some toolchain related phone calls, SoC nagging, machine upgrade (20:11:24) doko: - this week / next week: (20:11:26) doko: - OOo tests, bug triage (20:11:28) doko: - python cleanup (20:11:30) doko: - OOoCon (20:11:32) doko: - edgy+1: write a checker/generator for "Replaces" fields ... (20:11:42) iwj: doko: Replaces> eh ? (20:11:54) mdz: doko: are your statuses in LP up to date? (20:11:59) jjesse [i=user@69-87-139-148.async.iserv.net] entered the room. (20:12:10) doko: iwj: I'm tired to find out file moves between binaries built from the same source by hand (20:12:19) mdz: none of your specs are past 'good progress' yet (20:12:19) mvo: doko: what about the upgrade problem from dapper->edgy when python2.3 breaks? I have seen a few duplicates of this (20:12:20) doko: mdz: will update them tonight. (20:12:24) iwj: doko: Ah. (20:12:42) iwj: Count me interested ... (20:12:48) mdz: doko: is edgy-toolchain-roadmap complete for feature freeze? (20:13:00) Seveas: mvo, 'a few'... closer to 'a few dozen' (20:13:08) mdz: and python-roadmap? (20:13:11) mvo: Seveas: :) (20:13:24) doko: yes, it was complete last week (if you count the ABI problem as a bug report) (20:13:49) mdz: doko: please send me a mail when they are up to date so that we can discuss, and remember to update before meetings (20:13:57) doko: mdz: ok (20:14:01) mdz: thanks (20:14:06) mdz: did I miss anyone? (20:14:08) Keybuk: me (20:14:16) mdz: Keybuk: you're up (20:14:24) Keybuk: New Note 11 (20:14:24) Keybuk: Done: (20:14:24) Keybuk: * On Leave (20:14:24) Keybuk: * Upstart into main and ubuntu-minimal (20:14:24) Keybuk: * Transition requires a double dist-upgrade run, or use of the update tool (can't be helped due to dpkg/apt "features") (20:14:26) Keybuk: To do: (20:14:28) Keybuk: * Start on some bug fixes (20:14:30) Keybuk: * Finish off upstart article for Linux.com (20:14:32) Keybuk: BootMessageLogging: (20:14:34) Keybuk: * I think we were on crack when we wrote this spec, it turned into something of a christmas tree (20:14:36) Keybuk: * Assuming it's ok to simplify it to just "boot messages are logged to a file, and not displayed if 'quiet' on the kernel command-line" then it can be marked as implemented with my next upstart upload and we can focus on the other things later (20:14:40) Keybuk: * Given the above, checkroot, checkfs and cryptdisks need special treatment -- but they'll need that for the new usplash too anyway (20:14:45) Keybuk: * Otherwise I'm deferring it and leaving messages on the console (new usplash hides them on tty8 anyway) (20:14:48) Keybuk: DashAsBinSh: (20:14:50) Keybuk: * Implemented early in the cycle (20:14:52) Keybuk: * Opted not to change /bin/sh from a diverted symlink as the code that's there works with lots of different shells and actually works, no matter how unaesthetic (20:14:56) Keybuk: * A few, but no major, shell issues have been reported and dealt with. I'm not aware of any outstanding ones. (20:14:58) Keybuk: ReplacementInit: (20:15:00) Keybuk: * Really happy with how well this has gone, has been installed by default for a few days and still only getting trivial bugs (20:15:04) Keybuk: * Deferred changes to initscripts to edgy+1 due to problems with LVM, etc. uncovered during testing; would rather attack these on a fresh release than break edgy at this point (20:15:04) mdz: Keybuk: I didn't notice upgrade weirdness with upstart, though I had some issues with oo.o which may have masked it (20:15:06) Keybuk: * Have an active community for upstart already (20:15:08) Keybuk: * Already speccing out edgy+1 things that will probably be implemented "upstream" as we go anyway (20:15:10) Keybuk: * General query ... given that development will be continuing (e.g. changes to events and job states coming rsn) should I maintain this in edgy post-FF or only upload bug fixes and instead have a separate archive? (20:15:15) Keybuk: Teardown: (20:15:17) Keybuk: * Implemented early in the cycle (20:15:19) Keybuk: * A few things have crept back in, will treat those as bugs (20:15:21) Keybuk: AutomakeTransition: (20:15:23) Keybuk: * deferred until edgy+1 (20:15:25) Keybuk: * Debian will probably do most of this for us (20:15:27) Keybuk: * automake 1.9 is the highest priority alternative in edgy (20:15:29) Keybuk: LibAtaForAtaDisks (20:15:31) Keybuk: * Not strictly my spec, but I helped with it (20:15:33) Keybuk: * The kernel-side was deferred in favour of waiting for upstream to shake out the bugs now the patches are landing in 2.6.19 (20:15:36) Keybuk: * The UUID stuff went in though, we have working mount-by-uuid, swap-by-uuid and resume-by-uuid (20:15:38) Keybuk: * Unless you use any filesystem fabbione cares about, of course, but he can fix those problems :p (20:15:40) Keybuk: -- (20:15:42) Keybuk: oops, that was a little more verbose than I intended :p it looked smaller on the note (20:15:47) Keybuk: mdz: basically dpkg/apt/synaptic will refuse to upgrade ubuntu-minimal on the first try, because it'd remove an essential package (sysvinit) (20:15:56) Keybuk: but on the second try, sysvinit got upgraded to non-essential, so then it updates ubuntu-minimal, removes sysvinit and installs upstart (20:16:00) Keybuk: the update tool special-cases this (20:16:03) mdz: Keybuk: the important bit of boot-message-logging was capturing console output (20:16:09) Keybuk: and everyone who does it by hand is pretty used to looping several times anyway (20:16:10) mvo: Keybuk: I teached the upgrader about it already (20:16:11) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room. (20:16:35) mdz: Keybuk: will tomorrow's upstart handle that part? (20:16:43) Keybuk: mdz: indeed, it will. console output will be sent to /var/log/boot (20:16:54) lupine_85 left the room (quit: Connection timed out). (20:16:55) Squido left the room ("Cheers!"). (20:16:58) jjesse left the room. (20:17:00) Kamion: Keybuk: oh, err, we never did do yaboot, unless Ben did it (20:17:12) Kamion: IIRC he took the token from me with my wholehearted blessing (20:17:20) Kamion: for libata-for-ata-disks (20:17:33) mdz: Keybuk: ok then, I'd be happy with that. iirc I raised some questions about the feeping creaturism in that spec at the summit ;-) (20:17:55) Keybuk: mdz: ok, that'll go in today (20:18:48) mdz: Keybuk: regarding ongoing development of upstart, it depends on what you plan to do. intrusive stuff shouldn't go into edgy at this point (20:18:59) Keybuk: defining intrusive is tricky ;p (20:19:08) mdz: but simple and safe is ok for the sake of minimizing branchiness and keeping momentum (20:19:24) Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] entered the room. (20:19:40) mdz: Keybuk: having a diversion responsible for handling my /bin/sh gives me the creeps (20:19:42) Keybuk: of course, the only things using upstart in edgy are the upstart package itself (20:20:02) Keybuk: mdz: I know ... but that diversion code works, and works for a whole number of different shells (20:20:09) mdz: Keybuk: the impact of bugs can be...er...severe :-) (20:20:22) iwj: Hit ^C at the wrong moment and *crunch* (20:20:51) iwj: IMO it's a serious bug for one of the essential bits of an essential package to be diverted. (20:21:04) mdz: Keybuk: let's play it by ear; let's talk about the specific changes you want ot land as they come along (20:21:07) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat"). (20:21:19) Keybuk: we never actually made dash essential (20:21:21) iwj: Unless you take huge especial care of carefulness. (20:21:43) Kamion: Keybuk: bash is essential and /bin/sh is its essential bit (20:21:45) iwj: bash is essential and /bin/sh is its most essential bit. (20:21:47) Keybuk: mdz: *nods* my gut feeling is that I should branch it at the stable point for FF, and then be conversative on the edgy branch (20:21:52) Kamion: wow, snap (20:21:54) mdz: Kamion,iwj: ... (20:21:55) Keybuk: right (20:22:01) Burgundavia left the room (quit: Client Quit). (20:22:03) Keybuk: that's the reason we didn't make dash essential <g> there was no need (20:22:20) mdz: ok, on that note (20:22:24) mdz: any other business? (20:22:35) Mithrandir: I'd like to go to sleep. :-P (20:22:38) iwj: I would delete Keybuk's /bin/sh but I need some sleep first :-). (20:22:45) mdz: oh, one quick note: we now have a 'Not Started' state in the spec tracker. use it. (20:23:17) mdz: no spec should be in 'Unknown' state anymore unless we're truly unsure about where it stands, which will be an unusual case (20:23:18) Lure left the room (quit: "Konversation terminated!"). (20:23:22) Kamion: will specs start out at that rather than Unknown in the future? (20:23:47) mdz: unclear; I think Unknown might make sense as an initial state because sometimes specs postdate the start of work (20:23:51) Kamion: mdz: one of the five Edgy specs in Unknown is yours :-) (20:24:10) mdz: Kamion: I'll be fixing that shortly (20:24:29) Keybuk: d'oh (20:24:37) mdz: ok, good night folks (20:24:37) Kamion: oh, which reminds me, we never turned on universe and multiverse by default for edgy (20:24:49) Kamion: -> #ubuntu-devel, I won't hold up people's sleep for this (20:24:51) dholbach: good night folks (20:24:52) mdz: agreed (20:24:53) iwj: Goodnight ... (20:24:53) mdz: adjourned (20:24:55) iwj left the room. (20:24:57) fschoep: good night everyone
MeetingLogs/UbuntuDev-2006-09-07 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:32:47 by localhost)