UbuntuDev-2006-09-07
(19:01:20) mdz: good evening, folks
(19:01:27) sfllaw: Evening.
(19:01:30) sfllaw: How was Black Rock?
(19:01:31) pitti: good evening everyone
(19:01:48) mdz: my holidays were excellent, but I'm back in full-on work mode now
(19:01:50) tormod [n=tormod@80-219-112-71.dclient.hispeed.ch] entered the room.
(19:01:58) mdz: we have a lot of ground to cover, with feature freeze upon us
(19:02:04) infinity [n=adconrad@loki.0c3.net] entered the room.
(19:02:16) Jucato left the room ("Konversation terminated!").
(19:02:18) mdz: so we'll dive right in
(19:02:19) mdz: infinity: welcome
(19:02:30) mdz: pitti: would you start us off?
(19:02:33) iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] entered the room.
(19:03:01) iwj: Hi. Sorry I'm a bit late ...
(19:03:12) pitti: sure
(19:03:15) mdz: iwj: we're just getting started
(19:03:17) pitti: Done:
(19:03:17) pitti: * started to catch up with security updates after the two weeks break: PHP, bind, kernel (just coordination), mailman, libxfont/X.org, imagemagick, openssl, MySQL
(19:03:17) pitti: * apport: implemented bug pattern matching backend and GUI (so that apport-gtk directs you to an already existing bug rather than asking you to file a new one)
(19:03:17) pitti: * SoC reviews and reports
(19:03:18) pitti: * merged cupsys and updated to 1.2.3; not yet uploaded since I have to fix a regression
(19:03:20) pitti: Todo:
(19:03:22) pitti: * more security updates (arrgh)
(19:03:24) pitti: * catch up on my overflowing bugs inbox
(19:03:26) pitti: * finish cups 1.2.3 and upload
(19:03:28) pitti: * fix high-profile langpack-o-matic bug and prepare new packages (BLOCKED: *-updates embargo; mdz?)
(19:03:31) pitti: * ensure that php and mysql get new upstream versions (infinity or I)
(19:03:33) pitti: * finish gnutls12->13 transition
(19:03:37) pitti: * start bug fixing
(19:03:39) pitti: spec status:
(19:03:41) pitti: * apt-get-debug-symbols (Deployment): distro side is ready, needs buildd infrastructure work to get .ddebs to people.u.c (to be implemented next week with infinity)
(19:03:42) mdz: pitti: how much remains in the queue for security?
(19:03:44) pitti: * automated-problem-reports (Implemented): does not yet catch all corner cases, this requires an updated kernel implementation which will (most likely) be deferred to Edgy+1; but basic functionality is working apart from some bugs
(19:03:48) pitti: * gcc-ssp (Implemented): Distro side changes are implemented for a long time; still need to check current build coverage, and perhaps do no-change uploads to important packages
(19:03:51) pitti: * auto-unmount-notifications (Implemented): works a bit too good (also for readonly devices), but I consider that a bug
(19:03:54) ***pitti is happy to be the first one the first time
(19:04:01) Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] entered the room.
(19:04:14) pitti: mdz: the kernel still needs to be pushed out, some embargoed stuff that is lifted next week, and about 5 public issues
(19:04:30) pitti: mdz: (I don't have the exact number in my head, I just work through them case by case)
(19:04:45) mdz: pitti: looks like you are in good shape for feature freeze, congrats
(19:04:54) pitti: mdz: will you say some words about the *-update embargo?
(19:04:57) pitti: mdz: thanks :)
(19:05:15) mdz: we're in the process of revising and formalizing the process for updates to stable releases
(19:05:19) pitti: mdz: do infinity and I have your blessing to implement the .ddeb retrieval later?
(19:05:30) mdz: until that work is finished, only security fixes are permitted
(19:05:37) pitti: mdz: I hope it won't be too heavy for langpack updates ;)
(19:05:46) mdz: queue any -updates uploads locally until then
(19:05:48) pitti: but I totally agree that we should revise the policy
(19:06:21) pitti: we should also do a dry run of that proposed 'block bad versions with a fake version on security.u.c' approach
(19:06:47) mdz: I'm going to focus on prevention, though we'll think through some contingency plans
(19:06:56) mdz: KISS will apply though
(19:07:23) mdz: pitti: thank you
(19:07:27) mdz: Mithrandir: next?
(19:07:29) Mithrandir: live-cd-write-as-you-go: Needs a fair bit of infrastructure before it can happen, namely an udflinux similar to isolinux.
(19:07:33) Mithrandir: misc: X bugfixes. Rodarvus and I seem to have divided the workload so he gets the server and drivers, I get the apps and libs. Also played a fair bit with Xen. Casper bugfixes. Helped Colin a bit with sane-installer-keyboard (but he's done most of the implementation, by far)
(19:07:38) Mithrandir: next week: bug triage, Knot 3 release in a week.
(19:07:53) Mithrandir: l-c-w-a-y-g is therefore deferred
(19:08:03) mdz: Mithrandir: how did knot 2 go?
(19:08:36) Mithrandir: decent; some last-minute changes which I in retrospect wish I'd asked to postpone, but it wasn't too painful.
(19:08:53) mdz: Mithrandir: how about the testing in the certification lab?
(19:09:04) mdz: is that working out?
(19:09:22) Mithrandir: yeah, slowly.
(19:09:32) mdz: how are they reporting their results?
(19:09:33) Mithrandir: as in, getting there.
(19:09:39) Mithrandir: the wiki, as usual.
(19:09:59) Mithrandir: at least, that's been the goal. I need to be better at cleaning the grid when we build a new iso
(19:10:10) mdz: add it to the checklist
(19:10:28) Mithrandir: also, we uncovered some brokenness in Launchpad, but I think that's fixed now
(19:10:31) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(19:10:32) Mithrandir: infinity: ^^?
(19:10:59) infinity: Mithrandir: The frozen breakage? Not sure if those fixes have been rolled out, I'll chase that up before we try to freeze again.
(19:11:26) mdz: please subscribe me to the relevant bugs if they're causing release blockage
(19:11:36) Mithrandir: infinity: yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Basically, FROZEN doesn't work. And I can't freeze the distro.
(19:11:53) Mithrandir: both being kinda problematic if I'm going to drive the release.
(19:11:54) mdz: Mithrandir: did you have that UI review with mpt regarding live-cd-sessions?
(19:12:29) Mithrandir: mdz: I thought I sent that mail, but I never chased it up, so either he never got it or forgot. I'll do that even though we're post-FF.
(19:13:01) mdz: give him some time to think on it, it'll be good to have on hand when we resume that
(19:13:05) mdz: thanks Mithrandir
(19:13:08) mdz: infinity: next
(19:13:22) infinity: Done:
(19:13:22) infinity: * debian-maintainer-field: Maintainer field mangling is in the archive and active on the buildds, and working as advertised.
(19:13:25) infinity: * live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Just recieved word that elmo has given me the kernel support I need on the buildds, so will roll this out in production after I've slept today.
(19:13:29) infinity: * larger-livefs: Still needs creation of a seed for live-dvd, but when live-cd-stacked-filesystems is rolled out, this one basically takes care of itself.
(19:13:32) infinity: * A fair amount of buildd wrangling this week, unsnaring the usual "new GNOME breakage", dealing with chroots not updating properly, etc.
(19:13:36) infinity: * General weekly tasks (archive maintenance, tracking soyuz bugs and misfeatures, etc)
(19:13:39) infinity: Todo:
(19:13:41) infinity: * New upstream releases of PHP, MySQL, and Samba, all done in Debian, just need to get UVFs and quickly merge/sync them.
(19:13:44) infinity: * Make sure live-cd-stacked-filesystems/larger-livefs actually work in production.
(19:13:47) infinity: * Attack bug lists and FTBFS lists.
(19:13:49) ***infinity subscribed mdz to the FROZEN bug.
(19:13:54) PWill left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(19:13:54) mdz: (thanks)
(19:14:22) mdz: Mithrandir: have you been able to test your portion of live-cd-stacked-filesystems at all, or is that blocked on having them built on the buildds?
(19:14:42) goldenear left the room.
(19:14:59) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(19:15:03) Mithrandir: mdz: I have tested it with locally built images.
(19:15:04) pitti: infinity: (for the record, we do have the php UVF ER)
(19:15:19) pitti: infinity: ... approval)
(19:15:29) mdz: infinity: go ahead and create the dvd seed; it should have all language-{support,pack} for all languages
(19:15:30) infinity: pitti: Yeah, I know, but we don't for the other two, and I'm a lazy typist. :)
(19:15:31) Mithrandir: mdz: I haven't tested it with official images, naturally, since we don't have them yet.
(19:15:37) mdz: Mithrandir: right, thanks
(19:15:52) seb128: infinity: what causes the "new GNOME breakage"? The stricts Depends between arch all and any packages?
(19:16:13) PWill left the room (quit: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
(19:16:14) mdz: infinity: check with Kamion if you're in doubt about the germination
(19:16:34) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(19:16:35) pitti: infinity: will the dvd seed be a superset of the CD seed, or an independent copy?
(19:16:36) infinity: seb128: Yeah, when arches get a bit out of sync, the world explodes and I get to unsnag it all by hand. It's something I'm generally used to. When new GNOME hits, I tend to get to dedicate a couple of days to making it happy everywhere.
(19:16:40) Kamion: the appropriate runes are in the supported seed
(19:16:53) Kamion: pitti: live-dvd would inherit from live, technically
(19:16:55) mdz: pitti: it will be an independent seed, but stacked on top of the existing live image
(19:17:02) pitti: Kamion: that's good
(19:17:12) pitti: so no duplication AFAIUI
(19:17:16) mdz: right
(19:17:17) seb128: infinity: would delay upload between libs and app make the job easier for you?
(19:17:23) foo left the room.
(19:17:47) infinity: seb128: It could help a bit, but unless you want to stagger your uploads by days, something will always break. *shrug*
(19:17:54) seb128: k
(19:18:00) seb128: so not a lot we can do for you :/
(19:18:07) infinity: seb128: To be honest, I prefer to see you and Daniel just upload as much as you can and get back to bugfixing while I do my job.
(19:18:13) mdz: infinity: ok, thanks
(19:18:16) ***dholbach hugs infinity
(19:18:17) mdz: dholbach: next
(19:18:17) seb128: ok, fine with me
(19:18:18) infinity: seb128: Each to their strengths. :)
(19:18:21) dholbach: Done:
(19:18:21) dholbach: * GNOME 2.16
(19:18:21) dholbach: * Bugs
(19:18:21) dholbach: * Artwork uploads and work on Art-Builder
(19:18:21) dholbach: Todo:
(19:18:21) dholbach: * more Bug Triage
(19:18:22) ***seb128 hugs infinity too
(19:18:24) dholbach: * more Art-Builder
(19:18:25) dholbach: * REVU DAY tomorrow!
(19:18:29) dholbach: * get new gnome-pilot in, get missing telepathy packages in before UniverseFreeze
(19:18:32) dholbach: * start on apt-get.org import
(19:18:34) dholbach:
(19:18:56) mdz: GNOME 2.16.0 is complete?
(19:19:02) sfllaw: Yay!
(19:19:09) ***mvo hugs dholbach
(19:19:10) dholbach: yes
(19:19:15) seb128: mdz: yep
(19:19:19) ***mvo hugs seb128
(19:19:24) ***seb128 is going to blog about that ;)
(19:19:28) ***seb128 hugs mvo back
(19:19:33) mdz: excellent, seb128/dholbach
(19:19:38) dholbach: gracias :-)
(19:19:48) seb128: :
(19:19:49) seb128: :)
(19:19:49) mdz: dholbach: how is art-builder going? that's the arrangement we discussed in wiesbaden?
(19:20:07) ***pitti hugs the fabulous desktop team
(19:20:15) dholbach: mdz: exactly - it's checking out and building already, but not very clever yet (it doesn't do changes to buildsystems, etc)
(19:20:22) pitti: Seb'128 packages a day'astien
(19:20:26) dholbach: mdz: i didn't put too much time in it yet
(19:20:39) dholbach: pitti: ah ah :-P
(19:21:00) mdz: dholbach: ok, send me an email when there's something to see; I'd like to look at it
(19:21:05) dholbach: mdz: sure
(19:21:12) mdz: thanks dholbach
(19:21:16) mdz: kwwii: next
(19:21:25) seb128: pitti: :)
(19:21:45) kwwii: Did the Hardware Database interface pics, selected icons, edited a few and made a couple of new ones.
(19:21:57) kwwii: Finished almost all (all currently used as far as I can tell) of the power manager icons (one or two still need to be done)
(19:22:01) kwwii: Played with a two ideas for both versions of the usplash
(19:22:01) EtienneG [n=etienne@montreal.canonical.com] entered the room.
(19:22:05) kwwii: Worked on evolving the theme to the blue-purple variant
(19:22:09) kwwii: Tweaking KDM and Ksplash theme
(19:22:13) kwwii: TODO:
(19:22:17) kwwii: USPLASH - top of the list...following questions; which version will be used? When will testing be done? (how in the hell do I get it to work on my eMac?) :-)
(19:22:21) kwwii: Got Amarok running again on my machine, finishing up the work on the amarok theme
(19:22:21) kwwii: Release announcement pic
(19:22:21) kwwii: pics for wiki.kubuntu.org header
(19:22:21) kwwii: Finish the tweaking of the "about" pages, make that match with the metabar pics
(19:22:21) kwwii: Change all pics and color schemes to the blue-purple theme by knot3
(19:22:21) kwwii: the usplash is the biggest issue for me
(19:22:38) fschoep: +1
(19:22:54) kwwii: fschoep: ;-)
(19:22:55) ***pitti really hopes that usplash will work on amd64 soon
(19:22:58) fschoep: But at least there's something happening on the art ML now
(19:23:11) mdz: kwwii: of the 7 components we discussed (usplash, wallpaper, window decorations, kdm login, ksplash, app start pages, icons), how much of that has landed in edgy for feature freeze?
(19:23:13) fschoep: Seveas is doing some work there
(19:23:23) Seveas: My work on usplash is done
(19:23:38) Seveas: mjg59 is doing the hard work
(19:23:40) kwwii: mdz: all of it
(19:23:51) Riddell: except usplash
(19:23:53) fschoep: Seveas: OK, good to hear - glad you made it
(19:23:55) kwwii: mdz: it is all tweaking and bug fixing from here on out
(19:23:57) kwwii: and the usplash
(19:24:00) kwwii: thanks Riddell
(19:24:08) kwwii: that is why the usplash is on top of the lsit
(19:24:10) kwwii: list
(19:24:33) kwwii: the new usplash stuff came out last night...the big question is will that version be used?
(19:24:35) mdz: kwwii: what's blocking it? testing on your machine?
(19:24:43) kwwii: ie...how much time should be put into making the new version
(19:24:54) mdz: my two issues with it were the virtual console corruption and hibernation breakage.
(19:25:03) Kamion: kwwii: it'll be used, unless it turns out to be so buggy it's easier to revert than fix
(19:25:04) kwwii: mdz: although I cannot test it on my machine, I have some basic stuff done already
(19:25:05) mdz: the latter was apparently a kernel bug, and mjg59 believes the former fixed
(19:25:17) kwwii: I cannot get it to run on either of my ppc machines
(19:25:23) mdz: mjg59: how confident are you about it today?
(19:25:29) mjg59: Mm?
(19:25:32) Kamion: I was thinking of poking at it on powerpc tomorrow
(19:25:34) mjg59: Oh, the console corruption?
(19:25:36) mjg59: That's sorted
(19:25:37) mdz: mjg59: shiny usplash
(19:25:38) mdz: in general
(19:25:39) mjg59: Yeah
(19:25:41) mdz: for edgy feature freeze
(19:25:43) Kamion: I just haven't had time before FF
(19:25:45) mjg59: Works now
(19:25:53) mdz: are you aware of the amd64 issue pitti mentioned?
(19:25:54) mjg59: The PPC stuff is buggy but easily fixed
(19:25:55) pitti: are we definitively committed to using the hi-res usplash for edgy?
(19:26:04) mdz: pitti: that's what we're trying to determine
(19:26:04) mjg59: I'm running it on amd64 right this second
(19:26:05) kwwii: I made a usplash for the old version too, to if we have to revert, I am ready
(19:26:07) pitti: ATM it works neither on my powerpc nor on my amd64
(19:26:09) mdz: this is decision time
(19:26:21) kwwii: but still, everything else is done to some extent, the usplash is still the test theme
(19:26:22) Kamion: I don't expect getting it to work on powerpc would take much effort
(19:26:24) pitti: mjg59: oh, right, it was nvidia specific, right?
(19:26:29) mdz: kwwii: ok, no need to wait then; land the high-res stuff
(19:26:31) mjg59: There may be issues on specific hardware, but in general it's fine
(19:26:35) Kamion: I made it work on powerpc initially way back when, and it was only a few hours' work
(19:26:41) seb128: my desktop doesn't boot with the new usplash
(19:26:49) mdz: seb128: filed a bug?
(19:26:52) kwwii: mdz: cool, will do
(19:27:04) mjg59: seb128: Is that new as in generally, or new as in since this morning?
(19:27:05) seb128: mdz: not yet
(19:27:10) Seveas: seb128, 'new usplash' is rather undescriptive, 4 versions landed in the past 2 days, each fixing several bugs
(19:27:34) Kamion: Seveas: 5 :)
(19:27:40) Seveas: heh
(19:27:45) sivang: hi all
(19:27:53) kwwii: it would be really cool to get it working on ppc well so that I can test what I am making
(19:27:57) sivang: sorry for being late.
(19:28:00) mjg59: seb128: I believe those too be fixed
(19:28:01) seb128: mjg59: new from this week, but services-admin basically emptied my /etc/rc[0-6].d and I only restored a part of it so I want to reinstall before opening a bug
(19:28:34) mdz: seb128: ok, please confirm this week (with a live CD if that's easiest)
(19:28:35) mjg59: At the moment I'm trying to work out why a piece of previously working hardware is now failing to (as far as I can tell) even execute the Linux wakeup code
(19:28:36) seb128: I get the splash followed by a black screen instead of gdm
(19:28:43) mjg59: seb128: Yes, that should be fixed
(19:28:43) seb128: mdz: yeah, will do tomorrow
(19:29:08) mdz: kwwii: Kamion will have a try at it when he gets a chance
(19:29:10) seb128: mjg59: will try after meeting with the current version to make sure
(19:29:15) mdz: kwwii: if possible try on another machine
(19:29:21) seb128: I might not have rebooted since the update
(19:29:24) mdz: kwwii: or have Riddell email you photos :-)
(19:29:33) kwwii: :-)
(19:29:37) mdz: kwwii: thanks
(19:29:39) mdz: fschoep: next
(19:29:42) fschoep: Done:
(19:29:42) fschoep: * theme-teams: collect final versions of artwork
(19:29:42) fschoep: * community artwork: package best available artwork, mad props to Daniel Holbach on this one as well
(19:29:42) fschoep: * community artwork: contact sabdfl on progress and direction
(19:29:43) fschoep: * sound-themes: package best available sounds
(19:29:43) fschoep: * gtk-theme: minor tweaks
(19:29:44) fschoep: * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: finalized iconprio stuff, props to Daniel again for updating the website, contacted sabdfl along the way
(19:29:47) fschoep: * ubuntu-art-complete-highcon-icons: introduced Henrik to Étienne Bersace, looks like this is going to go well
(19:29:50) fschoep: Ongoing:
(19:29:52) fschoep: * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: decide on color tweaks based on artwork direction
(19:29:54) fschoep: * community-artwork: polish and rework parts to sabdfl's liking, fix outstanding bugs
(19:29:56) fschoep: * sound-themes: tweaking and polishing of sounds
(19:29:58) fschoep: * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: contact Dave to start work after sabdfl approves the scheduled list of work
(19:30:01) fschoep: Blocked:
(19:30:03) fschoep: * theme-teams: there seems to be no Art Council in place, who will approve theme team work for inclusion?
(19:30:06) fschoep: * usplash-artwork: running to stand still - has the target stopped moving yet?
(19:30:31) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(19:30:46) iwj: fschoep: I saw some mails or questions from my week off about the firefox human theme; did you get the help you needed ?
(19:30:54) mdz: fschoep: which components have landed in edgy today?
(19:31:00) mdz: iwj: my firefox looks humanish
(19:31:09) iwj: mdz: Mine too :-).
(19:31:09) fschoep: iwj: Not sure what you mean?
(19:31:15) dholbach: mdz: gdm, sounds, session, wallpapers, gtk theme
(19:31:21) fschoep: darn
(19:31:25) Ubugtu has changed the topic to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Sep 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Sep 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 20 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
(19:31:25) fschoep: thank dholbach
(19:31:26) iwj: fschoep: Well, if you don't have anything outstanding then that's fine by me :-4~).
(19:31:28) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(19:31:32) kwwii: good to hear that fschoep and myself are both loosing sleep over the usplash :-)
(19:31:35) iwj: Oops, my mouth exploded.
(19:31:36) fschoep: iwj: I wondered though
(19:31:46) mdz: dholbach: and what remains to be done?
(19:31:48) fschoep: iwj: Is the Human theme now default for Edgy?
(19:31:52) fschoep: mdz: usplash
(19:31:59) fschoep: mdz: human icons, GTK color tweaks
(19:32:07) mdz: fschoep: are there candidates for usplash?
(19:32:15) fschoep: mdz: some bland and ugly ones
(19:32:27) fschoep: based on 16 color 640x400 restrictions
(19:32:28) mdz: nothing we can roll out?
(19:32:28) iwj: fschoep: Yes; I put that change into the main bzr so you'll have picked it up and as mdz says default setups get it now.
(19:32:56) fschoep: mdz: we can roll something out, sure but it will hardly be better and less colorful than the test card
(19:33:00) mdz: fschoep: please get a high-res one together; if nothing else we can use the standard logo and it will look better than what we have
(19:33:09) Seveas: (there is a test 1024x768 + 800x600 theme in the usplash source using many of the new shiny features)
(19:33:11) fschoep: mdz: sabdfl kind of disgrees there
(19:33:17) mdz: fschoep: today is the deadline
(19:33:30) fschoep: mdz: I think -
(19:33:50) fschoep: mdz: well
(19:33:54) Keybuk: remember that the usplash artwork should go in the themes packages
(19:33:57) Keybuk: not in the usplash package
(19:34:02) fschoep: mdz: I need some input on Mark first
(19:34:14) mdz: fschoep: he's travelling and we cannot block on him
(19:34:14) Seveas: Keybuk, i know -- the theme won't even build in-tree
(19:34:28) Seveas: That's the reason I split off usplash-dev
(19:34:30) kwwii: fschoep: I should discuss the usplash with you...from the wishes for the dapper cycle and the new 256 color, I get we could do something nice
(19:34:40) kwwii: s/get/bet
(19:34:41) mdz: fschoep: it's important to get this in; we can still iterate on it but need a starting point now
(19:34:54) fschoep: mdz: sure, I think
(19:35:10) fschoep: mdz: like, now?
(19:35:17) mdz: fschoep: tomorrow
(19:35:36) fschoep: mdz: OK, I'll get something in
(19:35:53) mdz: fschoep: thanks; let me know if you run into trouble
(19:35:58) fschoep: mdz: OK
(19:36:03) mdz: Kamion: next
(19:36:10) fschoep: uh
(19:36:21) fschoep: Can I please get some input on the Art Council question?
(19:36:26) Kamion: (waiting)
(19:36:26) fschoep: Is there going to be one soon?
(19:36:49) fschoep: Does anyone remotely know what the AC is going to be?
(19:36:53) mdz: fschoep: you make the call on the themes to include
(19:37:08) fschoep: mdz: OK
(19:37:10) mdz: the release can't block on organizing a new team
(19:37:14) mdz: Kamion: go ahead
(19:37:16) Kamion: Done:
(19:37:16) Kamion: cdrom-based-dist-upgrades: Added upgrader to CD images, thanks to a patch from mvo.
(19:37:19) Kamion: no-more-devfs: Done.
(19:37:22) Kamion: livefs-access: Sound support theoretically in, but it appears to produce just beeps at best and it's hideous assembly code that I don't understand, so I've disabled this. However, we did manage to improve keyboard navigation on the accessibility menu and clean up some of the access options.
(19:37:27) Kamion: sane-installer-keyboard: Mostly done, apart from translations of layout and variant names, which will probably take a while to organise. We can test all the rest of it without that though. I'll push console-s
(19:37:30) mdz: mvo: is c-b-d-u testable?
(19:37:31) Kamion: etup up to minimal tomorrow morning once my upgrade path changes have built.
(19:37:34) Kamion: live-cd-stacked-filesystems: Wrote the ubiquity side of this, which will be needed once the filesystems appear in corruption.
(19:37:36) mvo: mdz: yes
(19:37:37) Kamion: misc: Reviewed and merged oem-config KDE patch from abattoir. Haven't tested it yet.
(19:37:40) Kamion: Deferred:
(19:37:42) Kamion: ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: I decided I wasn't going to get far enough with this before FF to be worth the time right now, so I've deferred it. Oh well.
(19:37:46) Kamion: To do:
(19:37:48) Kamion: sane-installer-keyboard: I expect to spend much of next week sorting out loose ends here (with Tollef, if he's available).
(19:37:50) mdz: mvo: does it require a dapper backport?
(19:37:51) Kamion: misc: Google Summer of Code final reports, and whatever else comes up. usplash powerpc debugging, as discussed.
(19:38:01) mdz: I think I mailed about this, but don't remember your reply
(19:38:18) mvo: mdz: full support yes, if we are happy with documenting to run "sh /cdrom/cdromdistupgrade", then not
(19:38:42) mdz: mvo: we'll want full support certainly
(19:38:43) mvo: full support == hal based cd detection
(19:38:54) mdz: mvo: I assume it's trivial reuse of the code we already had
(19:38:59) mvo: yes
(19:39:17) mvo: the patch should be easy (and the feature was done in a seperate bzr branch to make the backporting easy)
(19:39:23) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(19:40:05) mdz: Kamion: are you confident about sane-installer-keyboard?
(19:40:11) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(19:40:56) Kamion: mdz: yes, reasonably. Upstream says it still has trouble with non-PC-like keymaps but that's at worst confined to powerpc.
(19:41:01) Mithrandir: Kamion: I'm happy to help out with s-i-k next week, yes.
(19:41:10) mdz: ogra_: landing enormous merges during the feature freeze meeting -> grr
(19:41:11) Kamion: And it's *so* much easier to hack than the old console framework.
(19:41:22) ogra_: mdz, sorry
(19:41:27) mdz: Kamion: ok, thanks
(19:41:31) mdz: ogra_: next
(19:41:39) ogra_: * this-week:
(19:41:40) ogra_: - student-control-panel-completion - implemented by pete savage, waits for MIR review, spec still waiting for approval
(19:41:40) ogra_: - ltsp-login-and-session-handling - implemented, some cosmetic polish remains
(19:41:40) ogra_: - ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration - implemented, ready for knot 3
(19:41:40) ogra_: - fully-automatic-swap-server (no info, deferred i guess :/ )
(19:41:41) ogra_: - plenty of small patches (g-p-m, gnome-session etc)
(19:41:43) ogra_: * next-week:
(19:41:45) ogra_: - clean up ltsp after the merges, hunt the last bugs
(19:41:47) ogra_: - go through gnome-screensaver/gnome-power-manager buglist
(19:41:49) ogra_: - knot 3
(19:41:51) ogra_: - flight to detroit ltsp meeting
(19:41:53) ogra_: * other specs:
(19:41:55) ogra_: - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs - talked to infinity, we want to meet after FF
(19:41:57) ogra_: - ltsp-convergence: (no progress, multi distro meeting sept. 14th-19th) according to sbalneav only
(19:42:00) ogra_: two features (rdesktop and lp_server integration (the latter is on the buglist for edgy, needs some lines in
(19:42:02) Kamion: I expect the installer may glitch a bit tomorrow, but it shouldn't be hard to fix; I've run complete installs with console-setup in hacked-up environments.
(19:42:05) ogra_: the initscript and testing)) and optional xdmcp support missing
(19:42:07) ogra_: - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: code merged from debian (untested yet)
(19:42:42) ogra_: Kamion, fine with me ...
(19:42:45) mdz: ogra_: rodarvus was working on f-a-s-s, no? did he finish or pass on unfinished code?
(19:42:58) unix_infidel left the room (quit: Operation timed out).
(19:43:10) ogra_: mdz, he said he was nearly done since two weeks before wiesbaden, but didnt want to show me the code
(19:43:29) mdz: ogra_: please send an email asking for it and CC me
(19:43:32) ogra_: last edubuntu meeting (wed.) he said he'd start from scratch :/
(19:44:16) mdz: ogra_: your 3 edgy targets are all implemented, congrats
(19:44:20) pitti: ogra_: do you need any urgent MIRs?
(19:44:25) ogra_: mdz, ok, even though i have a workaround implemented that creates the swapfiles
(19:44:36) mdz: I don't think I'll make it to the ltsp meeting
(19:44:48) ogra_: so it *can* be defarred and get done rigght in edgy+1
(19:44:53) ogra_: sad :/
(19:44:55) mdz: ogra_: yes, I saw that and assumed it was fully-automatic-swap-server landing
(19:44:56) zul left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(19:45:03) ogra_: roger waters will miss you :)
(19:45:04) zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] entered the room.
(19:45:11) mdz: tell roger hello
(19:45:23) ogra_: no its just a call through the ltspfs socket to create the swapfiles
(19:45:30) mdz: ogra_: you have booked your flight already, right?
(19:45:30) sivang: ogra_: going to see pink floyd ?? :-)
(19:45:42) ogra_: sivang, only roger :)
(19:45:45) fschoep: wish you were here
(19:45:48) ogra_: mdz, yup
(19:45:54) ogra_: all sorted
(19:45:55) mdz: ok, good
(19:46:00) Adri2000 left the room (quit: "Leave, Left, Left").
(19:46:02) Keybuk: sivang: and I thought they said they didn't need no education
(19:46:07) sivang: Keybuk: HAHA
(19:46:08) mdz: ogra_: thanks
(19:46:12) ogra_: i got a very nice mail from sbalneav today about the -convergence btw
(19:46:18) mdz: has anyone heard from BenC? I sent an SMS
(19:46:19) ogra_: i'll forward it to you
(19:46:25) Keybuk: mdz: only earlier today
(19:46:27) sivang: ogra_: is he using edubuntu ?
(19:46:35) mdz: Riddell: next
(19:46:43) Riddell: done:
(19:46:43) Riddell: specs all implemented, except adept ones which are deferred
(19:46:43) Riddell: KDE oem-config testing, Colin has merged (thanks to abattoir)
(19:46:43) Riddell: kubuntu-hwdb: fixes, usability improvements and adding kwwii's artwork
(19:46:46) Riddell: langpacks-desktopfile-kde: working well, reuploaded everything to pick up .desktop file edits
(19:46:49) ogra_: sivang, yes, ltsp.org completely emerged to ubuntu/edubuntu everywhere now
(19:46:50) Riddell: kubuntu-system-settings-usability: updated packages (thanks to sime for implementing), same for kubuntu-power-management (thanks to Lure and sebas for much work there)
(19:46:53) Riddell: kubuntu-accessibility: required casper changes in
(19:46:55) Riddell: KDE 4 pre-release packaged and in NEW
(19:46:58) Riddell: blocked: ruby on ppc
(19:47:00) Riddell: todo:
(19:47:03) Riddell: REVU day
(19:47:05) Riddell: koffice 1.6 beta
(19:47:08) Riddell: merge KDE ubiquity with Colin's changes to GTK frontend
(19:47:10) Riddell: look at moving ubuntu-docs from svn to bzr
(19:47:13) Riddell: knot 3
(19:47:20) dholbach: Riddell: REVU DAY!
(19:47:22) mdz: Riddell: what's wrong with ruby?
(19:47:23) ***dholbach hugs Riddell
(19:47:29) Kamion: KDE 4 is targeted at universe, I assume?
(19:47:35) mdz: Kamion: yes
(19:47:38) Riddell: mdz: doesn't compile on powerpc
(19:47:41) Hobbsee: Riddell: the list of crucial "must fix" bugs for edgy, too
(19:47:47) ogra_: ugh, two KDE versions ?
(19:47:47) Riddell: Kamion: certainly
(19:47:51) Kamion: I'll look at it tomorrow, it's my archive day
(19:48:00) ogra_: that will cause confusion
(19:48:06) Hobbsee: ogra_: dapper effectively runs with 3. *shrugs*
(19:48:14) Riddell: ogra_: they're clearly marked as being for developers only
(19:48:27) mdz: there are alternate versions of all sorts of things in universe ;-)
(19:48:34) mdz: Riddell: looking good, thanks
(19:48:38) mdz: seb128: next
(19:48:44) seb128: Done:
(19:48:44) seb128: - GNOME 2.16.0
(19:48:44) seb128: - bug triage
(19:48:44) seb128: - desktop bugs fixing
(19:48:44) seb128: - caught up with a part of my mails lag
(19:48:45) seb128: - SoC review
(19:48:47) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(19:48:49) seb128: - gnome-system-tools bounty discussions and patches review
(19:48:51) seb128: To Do:
(19:48:53) seb128: - bug triage, bug triage, bug triage
(19:48:55) seb128: - bugs fixing too
(19:49:12) mdz: is SoC all wrapped up now?
(19:49:21) Kamion: the final reports are due tomorrow
(19:49:28) ***mvo needs to finish his review for soc
(19:49:32) Kamion: so yes
(19:49:37) mdz: and after that we'll have met our obligations and have nothing more to do, right?
(19:49:42) ogra_: my student cheated me and told me its wednesday :)
(19:49:44) Kamion: right
(19:49:44) ***pitti just sent the final SoC report
(19:49:51) ***seb128 too
(19:49:52) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(19:49:53) doko: mdz: still have to cash in the money ...
(19:49:57) seb128: just before the meeting
(19:50:19) mdz: seb128: the g-s-t stuff is progressing, right? not blocked on me anymore
(19:50:53) seb128: mdz: yeah, a package with most of the patches has been uploaded yesterday
(19:51:03) mdz: oh good. I'm a bit behind on -changes
(19:51:11) ogra_: is it upstart friendly now ?
(19:51:37) seb128: ogra_: upstart makes no difference, does it?
(19:51:37) mdz: seb128: how is the bug list?
(19:51:47) seb128: ogra_: you still use update-rc.d no?
(19:51:55) doko: seb128: are you aware of the gnomeVFS ABI changes?
(19:51:56) Keybuk: "friendly" ?
(19:52:03) ogra_: seb128, i thought it broke your upstart
(19:52:10) seb128: mdz: we still have difficulties to keep it at a correct level
(19:52:11) mdz: it shouldn't need any changes for this phase of upstart deployment, as i understand it
(19:52:17) pitti: doko: tell us you're joking?
(19:52:32) seb128: mdz: my bug mails lag was ~270 on friday
(19:52:35) seb128: it's ~370 now
(19:52:36) Keybuk: ogra_: it wiped his /etc/rc?.d (except for the READMEs) -- nothing to do with upstart
(19:52:52) mdz: seb128: who is working on desktop triage other than you and dholbach?
(19:52:55) doko: pitti: no, that's probably the reason why the OOo file selector doesn't work and OOo terminates
(19:53:05) seb128: mdz: some contributors
(19:53:06) ogra_: Keybuk, ah
(19:53:17) seb128: some of they triage a lot and do a good job
(19:53:42) seb128: ("Vassilis Pandis" by example)
(19:53:47) Fujitsu: doko, I noticed that yesterday :(
(19:53:54) seb128: but still, lot of bugs coming :/
(19:54:20) seb128: doko: the bonobo functions move?
(19:54:21) mdz: mostly upstream?
(19:54:48) seb128: mdz: yeah, we usually fix distro bugs fairly quickly (if they are an issue)
(19:54:55) seb128: 95% of the bugs is upstream material
(19:55:01) doko: seb128: yeah, maybe
(19:55:23) seb128: doko: it's a discutable "ABI change" then ;)
(19:55:40) mdz: seb128: are you and dholbach the only ones forwarding bugs upstream, or do others help as well?
(19:55:40) seb128: doko: they moved some function from gnome-vfs to libbonobo which the linux linker handle fine
(19:55:57) dholbach: mdz: some rare few are forwarded upstream by others
(19:56:09) seb128: mdz: 2-3 contributors help on that too, but they don't do a lot of forwarding
(19:56:14) doko: seb128: no, maybe the reason is dicutable, but not, that an existing application stops working; yeah, I know, our gnome law ...
(19:56:14) dholbach: mdz: but we have a list of "bugs to be forwarded upstream" now and I advertised it in some places
(19:56:16) mdz: we should encourage more folks to forward bugs upstream. is there a good howto?
(19:56:23) mdz: dholbach: oh, good. using a tag or something?
(19:56:33) dholbach: mdz: opening an empty upstream task is enough
(19:56:37) dholbach: mdz: you can search for them
(19:56:44) seb128: mdz: opening an upstream task not linked to any bug as discussed in wiesbaden
(19:56:55) dholbach: mdz: for "you can get involved here" tasks we use 'ubuntulove' :-)
(19:56:59) mdz: you can search for that now?
(19:57:09) seb128: looks like ;)
(19:57:18) mdz: oh, look at that. wonderful
(19:57:25) mdz: we should advertise that more widely
(19:57:36) mdz: need to move on though
(19:57:39) mdz: thanks seb128
(19:57:41) mdz: sfllaw: next
(19:57:46) sfllaw: Done:
(19:57:47) sfllaw: * Bug triage
(19:57:47) sfllaw: * Looked into interns at Cégep John Abbott
(19:57:47) sfllaw: * Various meetings
(19:57:47) sfllaw: To do:
(19:57:49) sfllaw: * Bug triage
(19:57:52) sfllaw: * Prepare for UbuntuHugDay
(19:57:54) sfllaw: * Work with seb128 and dholbach to get a desktop triaging team in place
(19:57:57) sfllaw: * Get in touch with LaptopTestingTeam for installer testing
(19:58:04) mdz: sfllaw: let's make bug forwarding a highlight of this next bug day
(19:58:12) sfllaw: Sounds like a good plan.
(19:58:25) sfllaw: I'll construct some searches for that.
(19:58:34) mdz: thanks
(19:58:37) mdz: especially desktop team bugs
(19:58:46) dholbach: i added them to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs
(19:58:46) ***pitti wonders whether it's feasible to pythonize bug forwarding :)
(19:58:48) mdz: that requires only registering in one upstream bug tracker to forward lots of bugs
(19:59:05) sfllaw: Well, either GNOME or KDE.
(19:59:19) mdz: right
(19:59:32) sfllaw: Riddell: What are good search parameters for KDE bugs?
(19:59:46) Riddell: sfllaw: how do you mean?
(19:59:49) dholbach: kubuntu-team bugs
(19:59:50) mdz: sfllaw: were you in the loop on the milestone testing in montreal? how did it go from your perspective?
(19:59:59) sladen: pitti: single-page edit-describtion, edit-subject, click, go, Wizard for that in LP would be wonderful
(20:00:21) Riddell: kubuntu-team is subscribed to the important stuff
(20:00:21) sfllaw: mdz: With the certification lab? No, I think I missed the memo.
(20:00:30) sfllaw: mdz: I'll talk to them in person.
(20:00:41) mdz: sladen: filing bugs is easy; it's establishing communication between upstream and the reporter which is hard
(20:00:59) mdz: sfllaw: ok. the general plan is that they should test on the lab machines when we do a milestone
(20:00:59) Hobbsee: Riddell: sometimes. often not a lot.
(20:01:12) sfllaw: mdz: If jbailey is cool with that, I'm happy.
(20:01:15) mdz: for hardware issues specifically as well as the usual functional test
(20:01:29) mdz: sfllaw: jbailey and I agreed on this in mallorca, it's a done deal
(20:01:53) zul_ left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(20:01:55) rexbron left the room (quit: Connection timed out).
(20:01:56) doko: sfllaw: please could you document the when-do-i-close/reject-a-bug-report?
(20:02:03) mdz: we basically need to do it anyway to keep up certifications, and we can get a lot of general testing along the way for free
(20:02:17) zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] entered the room.
(20:02:29) mdz: sfllaw: ok, thanks
(20:02:39) mdz: zul: next?
(20:02:51) zul: Done:
(20:02:54) zul: * kernel security patches
(20:02:56) zul: * kernel security testing
(20:02:58) zul: * kernel bug triaging
(20:03:01) zul: * new xen-tools fixing
(20:03:03) zul: * new xen snapshot
(20:03:06) zul: To-Do:
(20:03:09) zul: xen-restricted moduels
(20:03:11) zul: more drivers for the xen kernel
(20:03:13) zul: xen rcs control
(20:03:16) mdz: zul: is there a howto for how to try out xen?
(20:03:16) zul: xen bug fixing
(20:03:22) zul: yes its on the wiki
(20:03:37) Mithrandir: zul: do you want my x-r-m stuff or do you have something mostly-working already?
(20:03:53) mdz: zul: I suggest highlighting it in this week's UWN to get people interested
(20:04:06) zul: Mithrandir: can you send me your xrm stuff im trying to get the new snapshot working again
(20:04:07) Burgwork left the room (quit: Connection timed out).
(20:04:09) zul: mdz: sure
(20:04:14) mdz: zul: cool, thanks
(20:04:20) mdz: mvo: next
(20:04:25) mvo: Did:
(20:04:25) mvo: - Implemented CDRom support in dist-upgrader and put it onto the CD
(20:04:25) mvo: - dist-upgrader testing
(20:04:25) mvo: - update-manager improvments (better dist-upgrader integration, better cache representation)
(20:04:25) mvo: - added printer-sharing to gnome-cups-manager
(20:04:26) mvo: - implemented apt--install-recommends support for only certain sections (to implement meta-packages recommends support)
(20:04:29) mvo: - added recommends-support to germinate
(20:04:31) mvo: - bug triage
(20:04:33) mvo: - SoC mentoring (apt-sync)
(20:04:35) mvo: - misc stuff (synaptic,gnome-app-install,dist-upgrader fixes, command-not-found)
(20:04:37) mvo: Specs:
(20:04:39) mvo: - cdrom-based-dist-upgrades (ready, needs testing)
(20:04:41) mvo: - dependency-removal (aptitude needs performance tuning, otherwise ready; will display auto-remove list if non-empty and give hint to use apt-get autoremove)
(20:04:46) mvo: - gai-popcon: implemented, we could do with more people using popocon
(20:04:48) mvo: - recommends-support (ready, only turned by default for meta-packages now)
(20:04:50) mvo: - apt-ddtp (ready, seb128 discovered it today. the rosetta<->souyz think it not automatic yet, but needs manual updating)
(20:04:53) mvo: - command-not-found-magic (in the archive)
(20:04:55) mvo: - simple-popcon-participation (done)
(20:04:57) mvo: Will do:
(20:04:59) mvo: - bugs
(20:05:01) mvo: - test the auto-dist-upgrade testing going on a official machine
(20:05:01) iwj: mvo: is g-a-i fixed now ? :-)
(20:05:07) zul left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(20:05:14) mvo: iwj: *shhhhsss*
(20:05:39) mdz: mvo: most of your stuff is in a state of landed-but-needs-testing...I suggest the same as for zul; get the word out about these features and encourage folks to test
(20:05:51) mdz: UWN, -devel-announce, as appropriate
(20:05:59) mdz: there's some cool stuff in there
(20:06:22) mvo: I will do that
(20:06:24) mdz: thanks mvo
(20:06:27) Kamion: I should do that with s-i-k too
(20:06:28) mdz: iwj: next
(20:06:28) ***mvo considers getting a blog
(20:06:32) mdz: Kamion: indeed
(20:06:40) mdz: there's no rule that we can't have more than one feature of the week in UWN ;-)
(20:06:41) iwj: week after the sprint: was on holiday
(20:06:42) iwj: package-dependency-field-breaks: Changes to apt and aptitude now properly done: apt changes to support Break fully (from wiesbaden, now tested, working) and aptitude changes to treat it like Conflicts. List of packages constructed for deployment for edgy upgrades - about a dozen in required and standard are my first ones to look at.
(20:06:47) iwj: suggest-packages-for-filetypes: Completed during the sprint (thanks to mvo for some optimisations to improve gnome-app-install's speed too) but unfortunately broken since. mvo has the token atm for gnome-app-install atm AIUI, which is the last thing still to be put back to working.
(20:06:52) iwj: automated-testing-deployment: No change since last report.
(20:06:54) iwj: next week: firefox beta 2 (joy) (needs uvf exception, obviously); taking a look at the bug lists; trying out Breaks (let's try again) in a package or two, to check all is well before doing it a bit more widely; etc.
(20:06:58) iwj: if I'm really lucky: automated-testing: packaging the xen setup scripts into autopkgtest
(20:07:08) mdz: iwj: the last apt upload I saw said that the breaks changes were untested; is that no longer true?
(20:07:29) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(20:07:37) iwj: There's nothing in the archive that uses the breaks changes but I have tested them locally and they DTRT.
(20:07:44) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(20:07:56) mvo: iwj: sorry for the breakage, I will fix that tomorrow
(20:08:02) iwj: mvo: NP :-)
(20:08:23) mdz: ok, please land at least one Breaks this week (leaving time to see the effects before you go for the weekend) to start exercising it
(20:08:33) iwj: mdz: Right, willdo.
(20:08:46) PWill left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(20:08:54) mdz: iwj: is there still hope of seeing a final firefox for edgy?
(20:09:02) iwj: mdz: I haven't been following ff upstream.
(20:09:06) iwj: So I don't know.
(20:09:07) mdz: the last I heard from them they hoped to land it before our final date, but it sounded awfully close
(20:09:13) iwj: Heh heh.
(20:09:23) Kamion: iwj: feels to me like we should avoid Breaks in required and important for now, since that could be in dpkg/apt's dependency chain
(20:09:24) iwj: I think we'll just have to go with whatever beta is available, really.
(20:09:29) dholbach: there was a new version to experimental, no?
(20:09:40) Kamion: at least, extreme care would be called for there
(20:09:42) iwj: Kamion: That shouldn't be a problem, really. Talk about it tomorrow morning ?
(20:09:47) Kamion: iwj: sure
(20:09:53) Kamion: when we're both more awake
(20:09:57) iwj: Quite.
(20:10:00) mdz: ok
(20:10:17) mdz: iwj: so -breaks can go to beta status once it's being exercised in the archive, and you'll be ok for FF
(20:10:28) iwj: Right.
(20:10:31) zul [n=bob@ubuntu/member/zul] entered the room.
(20:10:41) iwj: I'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow.
(20:10:46) mdz: great, thanks
(20:10:48) mdz: doko: next
(20:10:54) iwj: 01:09 <iwj> I'll try to get a Breaks or two out by lunchtime tomorrow.
(20:10:54) iwj: 01:09 <mdz> great, thanks
(20:11:01) iwj: Err, sorry :-).
(20:11:04) doko: - this week
(20:11:04) doko: - edgy-toolchain: address libstdc++ ABI issues on powerpc and sparc; mcpp
(20:11:04) doko: update
(20:11:04) doko: - java-roadmap: provide a 32bit java runtime on amd64
(20:11:04) doko: - openoffice.org - OOo 2.0.4 rc1 packages, ia32-libs updates,
(20:11:04) doko: -l10n and -amd64 updates for dapper-proposed, test builds on all
(20:11:06) doko: release architectures, testing on i386 and powerpc, work around
(20:11:10) doko: sparc problems with smp kernels.
(20:11:12) doko: build problems: OOo currently only builds on the machines in the
(20:11:14) doko: datacenter, not on fresh edgy installs. same problem we had in
(20:11:16) doko: dapper at the end.
(20:11:18) doko: - python2.5 added as a supported python version. python2.5 related
(20:11:20) doko: rebuilds scheduled for tonight.
(20:11:22) doko: - other: some toolchain related phone calls, SoC nagging, machine upgrade
(20:11:24) doko: - this week / next week:
(20:11:26) doko: - OOo tests, bug triage
(20:11:28) doko: - python cleanup
(20:11:30) doko: - OOoCon
(20:11:32) doko: - edgy+1: write a checker/generator for "Replaces" fields ...
(20:11:42) iwj: doko: Replaces> eh ?
(20:11:54) mdz: doko: are your statuses in LP up to date?
(20:11:59) jjesse [i=user@69-87-139-148.async.iserv.net] entered the room.
(20:12:10) doko: iwj: I'm tired to find out file moves between binaries built from the same source by hand
(20:12:19) mdz: none of your specs are past 'good progress' yet
(20:12:19) mvo: doko: what about the upgrade problem from dapper->edgy when python2.3 breaks? I have seen a few duplicates of this
(20:12:20) doko: mdz: will update them tonight.
(20:12:24) iwj: doko: Ah.
(20:12:42) iwj: Count me interested ...
(20:12:48) mdz: doko: is edgy-toolchain-roadmap complete for feature freeze?
(20:13:00) Seveas: mvo, 'a few'... closer to 'a few dozen'
(20:13:08) mdz: and python-roadmap?
(20:13:11) mvo: Seveas: :)
(20:13:24) doko: yes, it was complete last week (if you count the ABI problem as a bug report)
(20:13:49) mdz: doko: please send me a mail when they are up to date so that we can discuss, and remember to update before meetings
(20:13:57) doko: mdz: ok
(20:14:01) mdz: thanks
(20:14:06) mdz: did I miss anyone?
(20:14:08) Keybuk: me
(20:14:16) mdz: Keybuk: you're up
(20:14:24) Keybuk: New Note 11
(20:14:24) Keybuk: Done:
(20:14:24) Keybuk: * On Leave
(20:14:24) Keybuk: * Upstart into main and ubuntu-minimal
(20:14:24) Keybuk: * Transition requires a double dist-upgrade run, or use of the update tool (can't be helped due to dpkg/apt "features")
(20:14:26) Keybuk: To do:
(20:14:28) Keybuk: * Start on some bug fixes
(20:14:30) Keybuk: * Finish off upstart article for Linux.com
(20:14:32) Keybuk: BootMessageLogging:
(20:14:34) Keybuk: * I think we were on crack when we wrote this spec, it turned into something of a christmas tree
(20:14:36) Keybuk: * Assuming it's ok to simplify it to just "boot messages are logged to a file, and not displayed if 'quiet' on the kernel command-line" then it can be marked as implemented with my next upstart upload and we can focus on the other things later
(20:14:40) Keybuk: * Given the above, checkroot, checkfs and cryptdisks need special treatment -- but they'll need that for the new usplash too anyway
(20:14:45) Keybuk: * Otherwise I'm deferring it and leaving messages on the console (new usplash hides them on tty8 anyway)
(20:14:48) Keybuk: DashAsBinSh:
(20:14:50) Keybuk: * Implemented early in the cycle
(20:14:52) Keybuk: * Opted not to change /bin/sh from a diverted symlink as the code that's there works with lots of different shells and actually works, no matter how unaesthetic
(20:14:56) Keybuk: * A few, but no major, shell issues have been reported and dealt with. I'm not aware of any outstanding ones.
(20:14:58) Keybuk: ReplacementInit:
(20:15:00) Keybuk: * Really happy with how well this has gone, has been installed by default for a few days and still only getting trivial bugs
(20:15:04) Keybuk: * Deferred changes to initscripts to edgy+1 due to problems with LVM, etc. uncovered during testing; would rather attack these on a fresh release than break edgy at this point
(20:15:04) mdz: Keybuk: I didn't notice upgrade weirdness with upstart, though I had some issues with oo.o which may have masked it
(20:15:06) Keybuk: * Have an active community for upstart already
(20:15:08) Keybuk: * Already speccing out edgy+1 things that will probably be implemented "upstream" as we go anyway
(20:15:10) Keybuk: * General query ... given that development will be continuing (e.g. changes to events and job states coming rsn) should I maintain this in edgy post-FF or only upload bug fixes and instead have a separate archive?
(20:15:15) Keybuk: Teardown:
(20:15:17) Keybuk: * Implemented early in the cycle
(20:15:19) Keybuk: * A few things have crept back in, will treat those as bugs
(20:15:21) Keybuk: AutomakeTransition:
(20:15:23) Keybuk: * deferred until edgy+1
(20:15:25) Keybuk: * Debian will probably do most of this for us
(20:15:27) Keybuk: * automake 1.9 is the highest priority alternative in edgy
(20:15:29) Keybuk: LibAtaForAtaDisks
(20:15:31) Keybuk: * Not strictly my spec, but I helped with it
(20:15:33) Keybuk: * The kernel-side was deferred in favour of waiting for upstream to shake out the bugs now the patches are landing in 2.6.19
(20:15:36) Keybuk: * The UUID stuff went in though, we have working mount-by-uuid, swap-by-uuid and resume-by-uuid
(20:15:38) Keybuk: * Unless you use any filesystem fabbione cares about, of course, but he can fix those problems :p
(20:15:40) Keybuk: --
(20:15:42) Keybuk: oops, that was a little more verbose than I intended :p it looked smaller on the note
(20:15:47) Keybuk: mdz: basically dpkg/apt/synaptic will refuse to upgrade ubuntu-minimal on the first try, because it'd remove an essential package (sysvinit)
(20:15:56) Keybuk: but on the second try, sysvinit got upgraded to non-essential, so then it updates ubuntu-minimal, removes sysvinit and installs upstart
(20:16:00) Keybuk: the update tool special-cases this
(20:16:03) mdz: Keybuk: the important bit of boot-message-logging was capturing console output
(20:16:09) Keybuk: and everyone who does it by hand is pretty used to looping several times anyway
(20:16:10) mvo: Keybuk: I teached the upgrader about it already
(20:16:11) PWill [n=paul@cpe-24-208-191-36.columbus.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(20:16:35) mdz: Keybuk: will tomorrow's upstart handle that part?
(20:16:43) Keybuk: mdz: indeed, it will. console output will be sent to /var/log/boot
(20:16:54) lupine_85 left the room (quit: Connection timed out).
(20:16:55) Squido left the room ("Cheers!").
(20:16:58) jjesse left the room.
(20:17:00) Kamion: Keybuk: oh, err, we never did do yaboot, unless Ben did it
(20:17:12) Kamion: IIRC he took the token from me with my wholehearted blessing
(20:17:20) Kamion: for libata-for-ata-disks
(20:17:33) mdz: Keybuk: ok then, I'd be happy with that. iirc I raised some questions about the feeping creaturism in that spec at the summit ;-)
(20:17:55) Keybuk: mdz: ok, that'll go in today
(20:18:48) mdz: Keybuk: regarding ongoing development of upstart, it depends on what you plan to do. intrusive stuff shouldn't go into edgy at this point
(20:18:59) Keybuk: defining intrusive is tricky ;p
(20:19:08) mdz: but simple and safe is ok for the sake of minimizing branchiness and keeping momentum
(20:19:24) Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] entered the room.
(20:19:40) mdz: Keybuk: having a diversion responsible for handling my /bin/sh gives me the creeps
(20:19:42) Keybuk: of course, the only things using upstart in edgy are the upstart package itself
(20:20:02) Keybuk: mdz: I know ... but that diversion code works, and works for a whole number of different shells
(20:20:09) mdz: Keybuk: the impact of bugs can be...er...severe :-)
(20:20:22) iwj: Hit ^C at the wrong moment and *crunch*
(20:20:51) iwj: IMO it's a serious bug for one of the essential bits of an essential package to be diverted.
(20:21:04) mdz: Keybuk: let's play it by ear; let's talk about the specific changes you want ot land as they come along
(20:21:07) PWill left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(20:21:19) Keybuk: we never actually made dash essential
(20:21:21) iwj: Unless you take huge especial care of carefulness.
(20:21:43) Kamion: Keybuk: bash is essential and /bin/sh is its essential bit
(20:21:45) iwj: bash is essential and /bin/sh is its most essential bit.
(20:21:47) Keybuk: mdz: *nods* my gut feeling is that I should branch it at the stable point for FF, and then be conversative on the edgy branch
(20:21:52) Kamion: wow, snap
(20:21:54) mdz: Kamion,iwj: ...
(20:21:55) Keybuk: right
(20:22:01) Burgundavia left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(20:22:03) Keybuk: that's the reason we didn't make dash essential <g> there was no need
(20:22:20) mdz: ok, on that note
(20:22:24) mdz: any other business?
(20:22:35) Mithrandir: I'd like to go to sleep. :-P
(20:22:38) iwj: I would delete Keybuk's /bin/sh but I need some sleep first :-).
(20:22:45) mdz: oh, one quick note: we now have a 'Not Started' state in the spec tracker. use it.
(20:23:17) mdz: no spec should be in 'Unknown' state anymore unless we're truly unsure about where it stands, which will be an unusual case
(20:23:18) Lure left the room (quit: "Konversation terminated!").
(20:23:22) Kamion: will specs start out at that rather than Unknown in the future?
(20:23:47) mdz: unclear; I think Unknown might make sense as an initial state because sometimes specs postdate the start of work
(20:23:51) Kamion: mdz: one of the five Edgy specs in Unknown is yours :-)
(20:24:10) mdz: Kamion: I'll be fixing that shortly
(20:24:29) Keybuk: d'oh
(20:24:37) mdz: ok, good night folks
(20:24:37) Kamion: oh, which reminds me, we never turned on universe and multiverse by default for edgy
(20:24:49) Kamion: -> #ubuntu-devel, I won't hold up people's sleep for this
(20:24:51) dholbach: good night folks
(20:24:52) mdz: agreed
(20:24:53) iwj: Goodnight ...
(20:24:53) mdz: adjourned
(20:24:55) iwj left the room.
(20:24:57) fschoep: good night everyoneMeetingLogs/UbuntuDev-2006-09-07 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:32:47 by localhost)