20070614

Log

TZ UTC+1

05:01   Keybuk  sorry about the timezone confusion, everybody
05:01   ogra    :)
05:01   heno    erm, yeah sorry :-/
=== Hobbsee waves
05:02   BenC    cjwatson: no sign of amit on either irc server...rtg still out of town I suspect, and kyle is en route to google so can't be on
05:02   fabbione        db_get random_greeting
05:02   fabbione        echo $RET
05:02   fabbione        hellp
05:02   Keybuk  no sign of mvo?
=== calc is here
05:02   BenC    you do need help if you quote debconf syntax for psuedo code :)
05:02   dholbach        Keybuk: he said he'd be here - I'll call him (maybe still having his birthday cake or something)
05:03   dholbach        he might still have thought it'd be one hour later
05:03   fabbione        BenC: that would actually work module a template and sourcing debconf library :P
05:03   fabbione        BenC: but yes.. i agreee..
05:03   Keybuk  yes, I noticed that
05:03   Keybuk  I almost added a new section to the agenda
05:03   keescook        dholbach: scheme? lisp?
05:03   Keybuk  talking of which
05:03   dholbach        Keybuk: line is busy - I'll retry
05:04   Keybuk  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070614
05:04   dholbach        keescook: LPC (I hacked in a MUD ages ago... :-))
05:05   cjwatson        sorry I'm late; traffic sucked today
05:05   keescook        dholbach: aaah, heh.
=== bryyce waves to cjwatson
05:06   calc    heh still showing UTC times
=== cjwatson counts on fingers
05:06   Hobbsee cjwatson: hah.  you're close enough that you can :)
=== Hobbsee uses kclock
05:07   Keybuk  so, we have new starters today
=== dendrobates yeah
05:07   Keybuk  Amit, who most of you met at UDS, has joined the kernel team (but hasn't turned up to this meeting <g>)
05:07   Keybuk  calc: has joined us to maintain OpenOffice.org
05:08   Riddell hi calc!
05:08   shawarma        Hi, calc! Welcome to the team!
05:08   calc    hello everyone :)
=== keescook hugs calc
05:08   mathiaz hi calc
05:08   asac    welcome calc!
=== evand waves
05:08   Keybuk  and dendrobates has joined as the Ubuntu Server Technical Lead
=== BenC wondered why calc suddenly showed up in #kernel :)
=== keescook hugs dendrobates
=== dendrobates waves to everyone
05:08   seb128  welcome calc
05:08   shawarma        dendrobates: hi, boss! Welcome to the team. :)
05:08   evand   welcome calc and dendrobates!
=== BenC waves back
05:09   mathiaz welcome dendrobates
05:09   asac    hi dendrobates
05:09   dholbach        welcome dendrobates and calc :-)
05:09   pitti   calc: all the best for OO.o!
05:09   seb128  Hi dendrobates
=== agoliveira waves all and apologises for being late
05:09   calc    pitti: thx
05:09   Keybuk  for those keeping score, that brings the distro team up to 24 people
05:09   Keybuk  agoliveira: that's ok, we weren't expecting you anyway
05:10   Keybuk  agoliveira: those at conferences are excused if they can't make it ;)
05:10   agoliveira      Thanks but I'm actually just wating in the lobby of the hotel so it made sense ;)
05:10   Keybuk  28 if you include mdz, cjwatson, heno and myself
05:11   Riddell I think you four count :)
05:11   Keybuk  we still have quite a few more positions open
05:11   Keybuk  so expect to grow by at least another 8 before the year is out
05:12   iwj     We are *exploding*.
05:12   iwj     I'm looking forward to meeting all you new guys in London.
05:12   dholbach        yeah, me too :)
05:12   Keybuk  Claire has reminded me to nag you all about booking your travel arrangements to London
05:13   Keybuk  and once booked, please make sure you put them onto the wiki
05:13   Keybuk  and if you have any particular room-mate preference, note that too
05:14   cjwatson        we have a very short agenda this week; any more items for it?
05:14   cjwatson        (not that I am complaining)
05:14   agoliveira      anyone who does not snore and do not smoke is fine to me ;_
05:14   ogra    agoliveira, not me then :)
05:14   Riddell no smoking in England by then
05:14   cjwatson        agoliveira: smoking indoors will be illegal at that point
05:14   BenC    agoliveira: very limiting choices :)
05:14   fabbione        i snore like a tractor on steroids
05:14   fabbione        BenC: can confirm that
05:14   ogra    cjwatson, even outside smokers smell :)
05:15   ogra    for people who care at least
05:15   cjwatson        iwj: we need to play the distro team game in London; it's been some time
=== Hobbsee cringes. australian clean air is good! :P
05:15   cjwatson        and it's a lot harder now
05:15   keescook        cjwatson: "the" distro team game?
05:15   fabbione        keescook: you are too new for that :)
05:16   cjwatson        that's "name all the members of the distro team. no notes allowed."
05:16   fabbione        cjwatson: we did it in Oslo you and I...
05:16   keescook        hah
05:16   ogra    ouch
05:16   shawarma        Ha!
05:16   fabbione        cjwatson: including history :)
05:16   mvo     hi
05:16   iwj     Maybe we should have a field `snores (yes/no)' on the roommate list, to be filled in by the previous roommate :-).
05:16   cjwatson        ok, agenda
05:16   pitti   ugh, that really becomes tricky now
05:16   cjwatson        (keescook) VMWare WS6 license needed
05:16   dholbach        hi mvo
05:16   bryyce  hehe
05:16   ogra    iwj, i usually add it ...
05:16   cjwatson        fabbione was chasing that up
05:16   cjwatson        fabbione: no word, I gather?
05:16   ogra    but then i usually add my data late :)
05:16   Keybuk  before we move onto kees agenda
05:16   fabbione        keescook: i mailed mdy 3 weeks ago..
05:16   Keybuk  one other quick announcement
05:16   fabbione        no news yet
05:16   Keybuk  HAPPY BIRTHDAY MVO!
05:16   fabbione        ehhe
05:16   ogra    MVO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
05:16   keescook        \o/
=== seb128 hugs mvo
=== shawarma hugs mvo
05:16   bryyce  congrats mvo
05:17   iwj     mvo: Happy birthday!
05:17   asac    mvo: happy birthday!!
05:17   shawarma        Happy birthday, dude!
05:17   evand   happy birthday
=== dholbach hugs mvo too
=== seb128 hugs mvo again ;)
05:17   ogra    haha
05:17   fabbione        cjwatson: nope.. i will try bitching^Wasking again tomorrow
05:17   mathiaz happy birthday !
05:17   keescook        haha
05:17   bdmurray        happy birthday mvo
05:17   Hobbsee hahaha
=== agoliveira hugs mvo
05:17   ogra    MVO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=== seb128 hugs mvo_ again ;)
=== dholbach hugs mvo too
05:17   cjwatson        fabbione: ok, please mail distro-team if you hear anything useful
05:17   dholbach        haha :)
05:17   Hobbsee someone paste the backscroll, if mvo_'s actually here...
05:17   seb128  mvo_: your ISP is still loving you? ;)
05:17   fabbione        cjwatson: will do as soon as i have info
=== asac hugs mvo
05:17   cjwatson        release readiness update
=== mvo_ grumbles about his ISP
05:17   keescook        cjwatson: I didn't intend it to be an agenda item, actually.  BenC, fabbione and mdy are all on it, afaik.  :)
=== mvo_ hugs asac
05:18   cjwatson        pitti: do you have a convenient link for tribe-2 bugs?
05:18   cjwatson        keescook: *nod*
05:18   Keybuk  I'll try and mail jp directly
05:18   Keybuk  I may have more luck
05:18   BenC    cjwatson: I got the licenses this morning from JP, mdy will add them to the wiki
05:18   cjwatson        aha, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/tribe-2
05:18   mvo_    thanks everybody for the happy birthday wishes!
05:18   keescook        BenC: oh, very cool!
05:18   pitti   https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/tribe-2
05:18   shawarma        for now we're supposed to use vmware 5.X, is that it? Becuase I'm too stupid to find a link to that anywhere on VMWare's homepage..
=== mvo_ hugs Keybuk ogra shawarma seb128 dholbach
05:19   pitti   it would be nice if everyone could take a look and check whether he can grab one of the unassigned ones
05:19   fabbione        BenC: mail distro team directly? pointless to bounce trough me agian
05:19   keescook        shawarma: I wasn't able to get 5.x working on 2.6.22 so I switched to ws6
05:19   BenC    once they are on the wiki, I'll post to distro-team
05:19   calc    query cjwatson
05:19   Keybuk  BenC: thanks
05:19   fabbione        BenC: ok thanks
=== Keybuk cancels the e-mail
=== Hobbsee hands calc a "/"
05:19   agoliveira      Can I get one of those too? I'm doing the embedded tests on vmware as well.
05:19   calc    Hobbsee: heh
05:19   shawarma        keescook: Didn't BenC have a fix for that?
05:20   pitti   Hobbsee: so you'll chase people for the copious KDE milestone bugs?
05:20   BenC    I have a fix for 2.6.22+ws6, but nothing with 5.x
05:20   agoliveira      BenC: Thanks.
05:20   BenC    any-any isn't working either
05:20   Hobbsee any kde bugs listed on that tribe 2 list, i'm the contact for, i believe - so if anyone feels like fixing them, it might be worth checking with me if someone's already working on tehm, or has expressed interest in them
05:20   shawarma        BenC: Ah, right. My bad.
05:20   Hobbsee pitti: typing, typing.  i'm a slow typer today
05:20   cjwatson        Riddell: with regard to that kubuntu-desktop recommends bug
05:21   cjwatson        Riddell: the general plan we had for Ubuntu was to identify the stuff that really makes up the important bits of an Ubuntu desktop - stuff like the panel, gnome-session, critical things
05:21   pitti   BenC: there are quite a lot of kernel bugs on the tribe-2 list; anything that is particularly hard and probably won't make it for tribe-2?
05:21   Hobbsee cjwatson: right.
05:21   cjwatson        but make many of the others Recommends so that they can be swapped out
05:21   BenC    pitti: I'll review them today
05:21   cjwatson        they will still be installed by default
05:21   pitti   BenC: cheers
05:21   Hobbsee cjwatson: that was my view, but Riddell didnt really agree with me.
05:21   cjwatson        it's one of the things that comes up in reviews quite a lot - people get confused when they have to remove the metapackages for stuff they should be able to replace
05:22   BenC    bug #109320 is actually against evms
05:22   ubotu   Launchpad bug 109320 in evms "evms blocks access to disk devices" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109320
05:22   iwj     metapackages> If only we had proper implementation of Replaces ...
05:22   BenC    Keybuk: did you do that patch and upload yet?
05:22   Keybuk  BenC: not yet, see my update ealier
05:22   Hobbsee pitti: i'll be chasing people, yes.
05:22   Keybuk  mostly waiting from upstream for comment
05:22   iwj     I mean, we could do away with transitional packages.
05:22   Keybuk  for comment from upstream
05:22   Keybuk  speak like yodo, do I
05:22   Riddell cjwatson: if that's the policy that's fine with me, although there seems to be a higher threshold for critial things than you desribe above
05:23   cjwatson        iwj: transitional yes, but I don't think that helps with -desktop
05:23   BenC    pitti: they all look doable for tribe-2
05:23   iwj     cjwatson: No, indeed.
05:23   cjwatson        Riddell: I'm relatively easy about the precise place where the line is drawn
05:23   keescook        *head explodey* etoomanyconversations
05:23   iwj     cjwatson: Oh, I see what you meant now.  Yes, I agree.
05:23   cjwatson        I've taken 120107
05:24   cjwatson        Hobbsee: 108870 should be fix-released?
05:24   seb128  bug #108870
05:24   Hobbsee bug 108870
05:24   bdmurray        Riddell: could you look at bug 119408? it has not been confirmed yet
05:24   ubotu   Launchpad bug 108870 in kubuntu-default-settings "[Feisty regression]  install two or more debian files with right click on them and install doesn't work" [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108870
05:24   ubotu   Launchpad bug 119408 in kde-guidance "[gutsy]  kde-guidance power manager causes screen to turn off" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119408
05:25   cjwatson        pitti: I'm at debconf next week, so I might have to postpone bug 118744 to tribe-3
05:25   ubotu   Launchpad bug 118744 in gfxboot "no gfxboot in gutsy with new syslinux" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118744
05:25   Riddell bdmurray: 108870 should go away with gdebi-kde
05:25   Hobbsee cjwatson: yes.  was going to double check it actually *fixed* the bug before i did that, though
05:25   pitti   cjwatson: WFM, the current workaround works fine
05:25   pitti   cjwatson: it's mainly a reminder to clean it up at some time before beta
05:25   Riddell bdmurray: 119408 I've heard some people say, and the other guidance developers have looked at it, but I'm not sure if we found a reason it affects some people
05:26   cjwatson        pitti: yes
05:26   bdmurray        Riddell: okay, if you need some testing done let me know
05:27   cjwatson        BenC: linux-backports-modules-2.6.22?
05:27   BenC    cjwatson: oof, yeah, need to get that out
05:27   cjwatson        should be trivial
05:27   BenC    empty upload, Just Do It
05:28   BenC    get it out with next kernel upload
05:28   fabbione        BenC: i need my toys with the next upload please...
05:28   cjwatson        ok, I don't think there's much else to discuss here, then
05:28   cjwatson        any other business?
05:28   BenC    fabbione: I got something you can play with :P
05:28   fabbione        BenC: cows?
05:28   pitti   I did some anastacia/MIR/cruft cleanup today, will do some more in the future
05:28   bdmurray        Hug Day schedule
05:28   BenC    fabbione: yes, gfs1/gfs2 will be ready next upload
05:28   pitti   s/future/next couple of days/
05:28   fabbione        BenC: cool thanks
05:28   BenC    fabbione: they sometimes fetch pine cones
05:29   fabbione        ROFL
05:29   cjwatson        bdmurray: how did the last one go? I didn't see a whole lot in #ubuntu-devel, but perhaps there was more in #ubuntu-bugs
05:29   seb128  pitti: I'll give you an hand on that, I did some source NEW, syncs and backports cleaning this week
05:29   bryyce  yeah I think most of the action was in #ubuntu-bugs
05:29   bdmurray        cjwatson: it went well bryce and kees did a lot of work
05:29   Hobbsee cjwatson: i got the amarok upstream guys helping to triage the amarok bugs :D
05:29   pitti   seb128: you rock
05:29   cjwatson        Hobbsee: excellent
05:29   seb128  pitti: you too ;)
05:29   bdmurray        yeah, that was great too
05:29   Hobbsee yep
05:29   cjwatson        bdmurray: what would you like the schedule to be?
05:30   cjwatson        or are we talking about the developer assignments?
05:30   seb128  there was quite some activity in #ubuntu-bugs yesterday
05:30   dholbach        seb128 did a lot too and I managed to get a bunch of bugs tagged as 'packaging', 'needs-packaging', 'bitesize' and 'upgrade'
05:30   bdmurray        Next one should be the 27th I think so I'm wondering who will be available then
05:30   cjwatson        is the rota on the wiki somewhere?
05:31   bdmurray        The one after that is a bit odd as 2 weeks would be the distro sprint
05:31   fabbione        bdmurray: that might be more fun
05:31   fabbione        with all of us in the same room..
05:31   bdmurray        cjwatson: do you mean the Hug Day schedule or the volunteers?
05:31   cjwatson        bdmurray: the latter
05:31   fabbione        we just need to figure who cleans the blood from the walls
05:31   bdmurray        fabbione: my concern there would be it would less talking on IRC
05:32   bdmurray        cjwatson: no, that isn't in the wiki
05:32   fabbione        bdmurray: you would be surprised how 10 nerds in a room spend more time talking on IRC than face to face :)
05:32   dholbach        bdmurray: I think everybody of us is geeky enough to talk on IRC even if we are sitting in the same room ;-)
05:32   calc    so someone needs to bring duct tape ;)
=== fabbione casts his "waitress" spell
05:33   heno    I don't think there is a rota; we should set one up
05:33   cjwatson        I think that would help, so that we can see who's gone before
05:33   cjwatson        heno: will you take care of that?
05:33   bdmurray        The week before the sprint would be closer to the Tribe 2 release though.
05:34   Hobbsee bdmurray: i'd agree with you @ the less talking on irc - it becomes very much a canonical-only event that wya - or the feeling of it.
05:35   heno    sure, anyone esp. interested in joining the next bug day? ...
05:35   cjwatson        ACTION: heno to set up skeleton bug day developer rota and mail to distro-team
05:35   cjwatson        heno: let's get it up in a form that people can add to it, and we can hassle folks later
05:35   heno    right
05:35   cjwatson        bdmurray: I'd be happy with the week before the sprint
05:35   cjwatson        if you're happy to have bug days in two consecutive weeks
05:36   bdmurray        I think that makes more sense than waiting until after Tribe 3
05:36   cjwatson        amitk: welcome, although we're just finishing up ;-)
05:37   bdmurray        However, there is a US holiday on July 4th which is a Wednesday
05:37   amitk   cjwatson: sorry, I lost track of time
05:37   agoliveira      Sorry guys, got go. Boss is calling! Bye!
05:37   calc    bdmurray: thu should be fine at least for the US
05:38   calc    bdmurray: but yea you probably won't find many people in the US online on july 4th ;)
05:38   bdmurray        so 6/27 and 7/5 then?
05:38   heno    sounds good
05:38   bdmurray        and then 7/25
05:38   bdmurray        which is after Tribe 3
05:39   cjwatson        that works
05:39   cjwatson        we should be settling down pretty well with feature development by then
05:39   bryyce  one thing that might be worthwhile would be to define a goal, like close 300 bugs (1% of total)
05:40   Hobbsee there was an aim yesterday of dropping it to 30K bugs.  that seemed useful
05:40   cjwatson        recent bug days seem to have been trying to tackle particular sets of problems, so goals in line with those would be good
05:40   calc    looks like ~ 70 new bugs since the bug day yesterday
05:40   heno    right, and other parts of triage than just cosing bugs are important as well
05:40   seb128  Hobbsee: did it success to go under the 30k line? ;)
=== bryyce nods to Hobbsee
05:40   calc    seb128: hit around 30070
05:42   calc    http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/
05:42   Hobbsee seb128: i think it was down to 30080.  what calc said.
=== Hobbsee went to bed.
05:42   keescook        I love that our goal is no longer "make bugs reduce in number" but has moved on to "get below some number".  nice work.  :)
05:42   Hobbsee sigh.  and then it went back up again.
05:42   heno    so when are we turning apport back on for gutsy?
05:42   Hobbsee what i want to know is where the heck all these bugs are.
05:42   seb128  keescook: let's enjoy the week where apport is not running :p
05:42   bdmurray        I think a fair number of the new ones were sync requests
05:42   keescook        seb128: heheh
05:42   heno    that will bring the exponential growth back ...
05:42   pitti   I really want to wait until we get the private bug filing
05:42   calc    Hobbsee: a huge chunk of bugs are on oo.o
05:42   Hobbsee ahhh
05:42   pitti   the fix for that is in review
05:42   pitti   also, dup detection is online now, so I hope it won't get that bad
05:42   seb128  pitti: there is no hurry
05:42   asac    pitti: ETA?
05:43   zul     Hobbsee: i think there is over 700 kernel bugs as well
05:43   pitti   asac: I don't know, next LP rollout I hope
05:43   Hobbsee ah, fair enough
05:43   asac    pitti: i would prefer to get firefox crashes on asap
05:43   heno    I wonder if there is an optimal time in the cycle to get crash reports?
=== Hobbsee attempts to figure out how private bugs and apport fit together. oh, apport being able to file private bugs?
05:43   pitti   asac: right; but we shuold really stop people from exposing their login credentials etc. to the public
05:43   cjwatson        heno: right after finishing whatever feature you've just been working on, IME
05:43   shawarma        Hobbsee: Yes.
05:43   seb128  Hobbsee: yes, for crashers
05:43   Hobbsee right.
05:44   pitti   private bugs -> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CrashReporting please
05:44   pitti   Hobbsee: ^
05:44   asac    pitti: yes ... but we did that for a long time ... so a week or so won't hurt imo :)
05:44   calc    hmm i only see 123 bugs on openoffice.org scribblers page but i am pretty sure there are a lot more than that
05:44   asac    pitti: but yes, i agree that private is important
05:44   iwj     Has the thing been fixed where you get three mails about every crash ?
05:44   iwj     It's really only useful to get at most one.
05:44   cjwatson        calc: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org says 491
05:44   iwj     Also, TBH I think it would be better not to regard apport crashes as bugs per se.
05:44   cjwatson        6 on -l10n
05:45   dholbach        4 on -amd64
05:45   shawarma        iwj: How do you figure that?
05:45   pitti   iwj: indeed; there are some plans, if you are interested, let's talk about it in #devel
05:45   Hobbsee pitti: looks sane.
05:45   calc    cjwatson: yea i guess just 123 are assigned to the group or something to that effect
=== heno agrees with iwj
05:46   iwj     pitti: OK.
05:46   asac    pitti: if you talk about that, summon me please :)
05:46   calc    there are slightly over 500 bugs for all the openoffice packages scribblers maintains
05:46   pitti   asac: noted
05:46   iwj     shawarma: I get about one report a month of a crash or other similar malfunction in dpkg and these nowadays almost invariably turn out to be `user has completely broken computer and pureed filesystem'.
05:47   pitti   calc: so, good luck with fixing all of them until tribe-2
=== pitti ducks
05:47   calc    pitti: lmao
05:47   cjwatson        ok, can the rest of this go to #ubuntu-devel?
05:47   bdmurray        calc: relatively speaking it isn't that many though
05:47   cjwatson        it sounds like we're done here
05:47   iwj     dpkg isn't that huge a memory user.  So extrapolating, I imagine that a fair proportion of crash reports in oo.o and firefox and the like are just bad hardware.
05:48   shawarma        iwj: Right, but as a general rule, don't you think an apport generated bug report represents an actual bug?
05:48   cjwatson        certainly ubiquity bugs are disproportionately bad hardware
05:48   iwj     shawarma: In the case of dpkg clearly the answer is no.
05:48   cjwatson        although the ones that aren't are significant
05:48   calc    bdmurray: yea only about 1.7%
05:48   shawarma        iwj: hence "general rule". :)
05:48   bdmurray        so Hobbsee asking about where they all are is a good question
05:48   bdmurray        or interesting
05:48   iwj     `As a general rule, all X are Y'  `No, here is a big subclass of X which are usually not'.
=== mvo blames bad hardware usually too when apt crashes
05:49   iwj     What you mean is `As a general rule, most X are Y' which may be true but we don't know.
05:49   iwj     Anyway.
05:49   calc    bdmurray: is there a way to extract a report of bugs per package to get a top offending list?
05:49   iwj     Are we planning to have the team dinner on the Friday night or earlier ?  I'm just thinking about people missing flights, you understand :-).
05:49   Hobbsee bdmurray: i'd like to see a https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs for all bugs in ubuntu, but i havent badgered the #launchpad guys as to how feasible it is, and to get an ETA on it.
05:49   iwj     (I mean, for the London sprint.)
05:49   cjwatson        Keybuk: do you know? I hadn't heard
05:49   shawarma        iwj: I did not know that dpkg bugs were really a big subclass of Ubuntu bugs. I would have expected dpkg to have extraordinarily few bugs reported, actually.
05:50   Keybuk  cjwatson: Friday, I understand
05:50   Keybuk  I don't care, as long as it's not at Pizza Express
05:50   Keybuk  ;)
05:50   bdmurray        calc: bugnumbers -p --stats I think
05:50   bryyce  mmm pizza
05:50   keescook        iwj: I'd love the dinner to be Wed or earlier; I'm only there a half week
05:50   bryyce  $ bugnumbers -p --stats
05:50   bryyce  Package '--stats' not found.
05:51   cjwatson        sprint dinner requests -> distro-team
05:51   dholbach        bdmurray:  -p openoffice.org ?
05:51   calc    ah bughelper
05:51   cjwatson        sounds like we're done, then
05:51   cjwatson        adjourned

MeetingLogs/UbuntuDev/20070614 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:36:51 by localhost)