20070614
Log
TZ UTC+1
05:01 Keybuk sorry about the timezone confusion, everybody 05:01 ogra :) 05:01 heno erm, yeah sorry :-/ === Hobbsee waves 05:02 BenC cjwatson: no sign of amit on either irc server...rtg still out of town I suspect, and kyle is en route to google so can't be on 05:02 fabbione db_get random_greeting 05:02 fabbione echo $RET 05:02 fabbione hellp 05:02 Keybuk no sign of mvo? === calc is here 05:02 BenC you do need help if you quote debconf syntax for psuedo code :) 05:02 dholbach Keybuk: he said he'd be here - I'll call him (maybe still having his birthday cake or something) 05:03 dholbach he might still have thought it'd be one hour later 05:03 fabbione BenC: that would actually work module a template and sourcing debconf library :P 05:03 fabbione BenC: but yes.. i agreee.. 05:03 Keybuk yes, I noticed that 05:03 Keybuk I almost added a new section to the agenda 05:03 keescook dholbach: scheme? lisp? 05:03 Keybuk talking of which 05:03 dholbach Keybuk: line is busy - I'll retry 05:04 Keybuk http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070614 05:04 dholbach keescook: LPC (I hacked in a MUD ages ago... :-)) 05:05 cjwatson sorry I'm late; traffic sucked today 05:05 keescook dholbach: aaah, heh. === bryyce waves to cjwatson 05:06 calc heh still showing UTC times === cjwatson counts on fingers 05:06 Hobbsee cjwatson: hah. you're close enough that you can :) === Hobbsee uses kclock 05:07 Keybuk so, we have new starters today === dendrobates yeah 05:07 Keybuk Amit, who most of you met at UDS, has joined the kernel team (but hasn't turned up to this meeting <g>) 05:07 Keybuk calc: has joined us to maintain OpenOffice.org 05:08 Riddell hi calc! 05:08 shawarma Hi, calc! Welcome to the team! 05:08 calc hello everyone :) === keescook hugs calc 05:08 mathiaz hi calc 05:08 asac welcome calc! === evand waves 05:08 Keybuk and dendrobates has joined as the Ubuntu Server Technical Lead === BenC wondered why calc suddenly showed up in #kernel :) === keescook hugs dendrobates === dendrobates waves to everyone 05:08 seb128 welcome calc 05:08 shawarma dendrobates: hi, boss! Welcome to the team. :) 05:08 evand welcome calc and dendrobates! === BenC waves back 05:09 mathiaz welcome dendrobates 05:09 asac hi dendrobates 05:09 dholbach welcome dendrobates and calc :-) 05:09 pitti calc: all the best for OO.o! 05:09 seb128 Hi dendrobates === agoliveira waves all and apologises for being late 05:09 calc pitti: thx 05:09 Keybuk for those keeping score, that brings the distro team up to 24 people 05:09 Keybuk agoliveira: that's ok, we weren't expecting you anyway 05:10 Keybuk agoliveira: those at conferences are excused if they can't make it ;) 05:10 agoliveira Thanks but I'm actually just wating in the lobby of the hotel so it made sense ;) 05:10 Keybuk 28 if you include mdz, cjwatson, heno and myself 05:11 Riddell I think you four count :) 05:11 Keybuk we still have quite a few more positions open 05:11 Keybuk so expect to grow by at least another 8 before the year is out 05:12 iwj We are *exploding*. 05:12 iwj I'm looking forward to meeting all you new guys in London. 05:12 dholbach yeah, me too :) 05:12 Keybuk Claire has reminded me to nag you all about booking your travel arrangements to London 05:13 Keybuk and once booked, please make sure you put them onto the wiki 05:13 Keybuk and if you have any particular room-mate preference, note that too 05:14 cjwatson we have a very short agenda this week; any more items for it? 05:14 cjwatson (not that I am complaining) 05:14 agoliveira anyone who does not snore and do not smoke is fine to me ;_ 05:14 ogra agoliveira, not me then :) 05:14 Riddell no smoking in England by then 05:14 cjwatson agoliveira: smoking indoors will be illegal at that point 05:14 BenC agoliveira: very limiting choices :) 05:14 fabbione i snore like a tractor on steroids 05:14 fabbione BenC: can confirm that 05:14 ogra cjwatson, even outside smokers smell :) 05:15 ogra for people who care at least 05:15 cjwatson iwj: we need to play the distro team game in London; it's been some time === Hobbsee cringes. australian clean air is good! :P 05:15 cjwatson and it's a lot harder now 05:15 keescook cjwatson: "the" distro team game? 05:15 fabbione keescook: you are too new for that :) 05:16 cjwatson that's "name all the members of the distro team. no notes allowed." 05:16 fabbione cjwatson: we did it in Oslo you and I... 05:16 keescook hah 05:16 ogra ouch 05:16 shawarma Ha! 05:16 fabbione cjwatson: including history :) 05:16 mvo hi 05:16 iwj Maybe we should have a field `snores (yes/no)' on the roommate list, to be filled in by the previous roommate :-). 05:16 cjwatson ok, agenda 05:16 pitti ugh, that really becomes tricky now 05:16 cjwatson (keescook) VMWare WS6 license needed 05:16 dholbach hi mvo 05:16 bryyce hehe 05:16 ogra iwj, i usually add it ... 05:16 cjwatson fabbione was chasing that up 05:16 cjwatson fabbione: no word, I gather? 05:16 ogra but then i usually add my data late :) 05:16 Keybuk before we move onto kees agenda 05:16 fabbione keescook: i mailed mdy 3 weeks ago.. 05:16 Keybuk one other quick announcement 05:16 fabbione no news yet 05:16 Keybuk HAPPY BIRTHDAY MVO! 05:16 fabbione ehhe 05:16 ogra MVO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 05:16 keescook \o/ === seb128 hugs mvo === shawarma hugs mvo 05:16 bryyce congrats mvo 05:17 iwj mvo: Happy birthday! 05:17 asac mvo: happy birthday!! 05:17 shawarma Happy birthday, dude! 05:17 evand happy birthday === dholbach hugs mvo too === seb128 hugs mvo again ;) 05:17 ogra haha 05:17 fabbione cjwatson: nope.. i will try bitching^Wasking again tomorrow 05:17 mathiaz happy birthday ! 05:17 keescook haha 05:17 bdmurray happy birthday mvo 05:17 Hobbsee hahaha === agoliveira hugs mvo 05:17 ogra MVO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! === seb128 hugs mvo_ again ;) === dholbach hugs mvo too 05:17 cjwatson fabbione: ok, please mail distro-team if you hear anything useful 05:17 dholbach haha :) 05:17 Hobbsee someone paste the backscroll, if mvo_'s actually here... 05:17 seb128 mvo_: your ISP is still loving you? ;) 05:17 fabbione cjwatson: will do as soon as i have info === asac hugs mvo 05:17 cjwatson release readiness update === mvo_ grumbles about his ISP 05:17 keescook cjwatson: I didn't intend it to be an agenda item, actually. BenC, fabbione and mdy are all on it, afaik. :) === mvo_ hugs asac 05:18 cjwatson pitti: do you have a convenient link for tribe-2 bugs? 05:18 cjwatson keescook: *nod* 05:18 Keybuk I'll try and mail jp directly 05:18 Keybuk I may have more luck 05:18 BenC cjwatson: I got the licenses this morning from JP, mdy will add them to the wiki 05:18 cjwatson aha, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/tribe-2 05:18 mvo_ thanks everybody for the happy birthday wishes! 05:18 keescook BenC: oh, very cool! 05:18 pitti https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/tribe-2 05:18 shawarma for now we're supposed to use vmware 5.X, is that it? Becuase I'm too stupid to find a link to that anywhere on VMWare's homepage.. === mvo_ hugs Keybuk ogra shawarma seb128 dholbach 05:19 pitti it would be nice if everyone could take a look and check whether he can grab one of the unassigned ones 05:19 fabbione BenC: mail distro team directly? pointless to bounce trough me agian 05:19 keescook shawarma: I wasn't able to get 5.x working on 2.6.22 so I switched to ws6 05:19 BenC once they are on the wiki, I'll post to distro-team 05:19 calc query cjwatson 05:19 Keybuk BenC: thanks 05:19 fabbione BenC: ok thanks === Keybuk cancels the e-mail === Hobbsee hands calc a "/" 05:19 agoliveira Can I get one of those too? I'm doing the embedded tests on vmware as well. 05:19 calc Hobbsee: heh 05:19 shawarma keescook: Didn't BenC have a fix for that? 05:20 pitti Hobbsee: so you'll chase people for the copious KDE milestone bugs? 05:20 BenC I have a fix for 2.6.22+ws6, but nothing with 5.x 05:20 agoliveira BenC: Thanks. 05:20 BenC any-any isn't working either 05:20 Hobbsee any kde bugs listed on that tribe 2 list, i'm the contact for, i believe - so if anyone feels like fixing them, it might be worth checking with me if someone's already working on tehm, or has expressed interest in them 05:20 shawarma BenC: Ah, right. My bad. 05:20 Hobbsee pitti: typing, typing. i'm a slow typer today 05:20 cjwatson Riddell: with regard to that kubuntu-desktop recommends bug 05:21 cjwatson Riddell: the general plan we had for Ubuntu was to identify the stuff that really makes up the important bits of an Ubuntu desktop - stuff like the panel, gnome-session, critical things 05:21 pitti BenC: there are quite a lot of kernel bugs on the tribe-2 list; anything that is particularly hard and probably won't make it for tribe-2? 05:21 Hobbsee cjwatson: right. 05:21 cjwatson but make many of the others Recommends so that they can be swapped out 05:21 BenC pitti: I'll review them today 05:21 cjwatson they will still be installed by default 05:21 pitti BenC: cheers 05:21 Hobbsee cjwatson: that was my view, but Riddell didnt really agree with me. 05:21 cjwatson it's one of the things that comes up in reviews quite a lot - people get confused when they have to remove the metapackages for stuff they should be able to replace 05:22 BenC bug #109320 is actually against evms 05:22 ubotu Launchpad bug 109320 in evms "evms blocks access to disk devices" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109320 05:22 iwj metapackages> If only we had proper implementation of Replaces ... 05:22 BenC Keybuk: did you do that patch and upload yet? 05:22 Keybuk BenC: not yet, see my update ealier 05:22 Hobbsee pitti: i'll be chasing people, yes. 05:22 Keybuk mostly waiting from upstream for comment 05:22 iwj I mean, we could do away with transitional packages. 05:22 Keybuk for comment from upstream 05:22 Keybuk speak like yodo, do I 05:22 Riddell cjwatson: if that's the policy that's fine with me, although there seems to be a higher threshold for critial things than you desribe above 05:23 cjwatson iwj: transitional yes, but I don't think that helps with -desktop 05:23 BenC pitti: they all look doable for tribe-2 05:23 iwj cjwatson: No, indeed. 05:23 cjwatson Riddell: I'm relatively easy about the precise place where the line is drawn 05:23 keescook *head explodey* etoomanyconversations 05:23 iwj cjwatson: Oh, I see what you meant now. Yes, I agree. 05:23 cjwatson I've taken 120107 05:24 cjwatson Hobbsee: 108870 should be fix-released? 05:24 seb128 bug #108870 05:24 Hobbsee bug 108870 05:24 bdmurray Riddell: could you look at bug 119408? it has not been confirmed yet 05:24 ubotu Launchpad bug 108870 in kubuntu-default-settings "[Feisty regression] install two or more debian files with right click on them and install doesn't work" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108870 05:24 ubotu Launchpad bug 119408 in kde-guidance "[gutsy] kde-guidance power manager causes screen to turn off" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119408 05:25 cjwatson pitti: I'm at debconf next week, so I might have to postpone bug 118744 to tribe-3 05:25 ubotu Launchpad bug 118744 in gfxboot "no gfxboot in gutsy with new syslinux" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118744 05:25 Riddell bdmurray: 108870 should go away with gdebi-kde 05:25 Hobbsee cjwatson: yes. was going to double check it actually *fixed* the bug before i did that, though 05:25 pitti cjwatson: WFM, the current workaround works fine 05:25 pitti cjwatson: it's mainly a reminder to clean it up at some time before beta 05:25 Riddell bdmurray: 119408 I've heard some people say, and the other guidance developers have looked at it, but I'm not sure if we found a reason it affects some people 05:26 cjwatson pitti: yes 05:26 bdmurray Riddell: okay, if you need some testing done let me know 05:27 cjwatson BenC: linux-backports-modules-2.6.22? 05:27 BenC cjwatson: oof, yeah, need to get that out 05:27 cjwatson should be trivial 05:27 BenC empty upload, Just Do It 05:28 BenC get it out with next kernel upload 05:28 fabbione BenC: i need my toys with the next upload please... 05:28 cjwatson ok, I don't think there's much else to discuss here, then 05:28 cjwatson any other business? 05:28 BenC fabbione: I got something you can play with :P 05:28 fabbione BenC: cows? 05:28 pitti I did some anastacia/MIR/cruft cleanup today, will do some more in the future 05:28 bdmurray Hug Day schedule 05:28 BenC fabbione: yes, gfs1/gfs2 will be ready next upload 05:28 pitti s/future/next couple of days/ 05:28 fabbione BenC: cool thanks 05:28 BenC fabbione: they sometimes fetch pine cones 05:29 fabbione ROFL 05:29 cjwatson bdmurray: how did the last one go? I didn't see a whole lot in #ubuntu-devel, but perhaps there was more in #ubuntu-bugs 05:29 seb128 pitti: I'll give you an hand on that, I did some source NEW, syncs and backports cleaning this week 05:29 bryyce yeah I think most of the action was in #ubuntu-bugs 05:29 bdmurray cjwatson: it went well bryce and kees did a lot of work 05:29 Hobbsee cjwatson: i got the amarok upstream guys helping to triage the amarok bugs :D 05:29 pitti seb128: you rock 05:29 cjwatson Hobbsee: excellent 05:29 seb128 pitti: you too ;) 05:29 bdmurray yeah, that was great too 05:29 Hobbsee yep 05:29 cjwatson bdmurray: what would you like the schedule to be? 05:30 cjwatson or are we talking about the developer assignments? 05:30 seb128 there was quite some activity in #ubuntu-bugs yesterday 05:30 dholbach seb128 did a lot too and I managed to get a bunch of bugs tagged as 'packaging', 'needs-packaging', 'bitesize' and 'upgrade' 05:30 bdmurray Next one should be the 27th I think so I'm wondering who will be available then 05:30 cjwatson is the rota on the wiki somewhere? 05:31 bdmurray The one after that is a bit odd as 2 weeks would be the distro sprint 05:31 fabbione bdmurray: that might be more fun 05:31 fabbione with all of us in the same room.. 05:31 bdmurray cjwatson: do you mean the Hug Day schedule or the volunteers? 05:31 cjwatson bdmurray: the latter 05:31 fabbione we just need to figure who cleans the blood from the walls 05:31 bdmurray fabbione: my concern there would be it would less talking on IRC 05:32 bdmurray cjwatson: no, that isn't in the wiki 05:32 fabbione bdmurray: you would be surprised how 10 nerds in a room spend more time talking on IRC than face to face :) 05:32 dholbach bdmurray: I think everybody of us is geeky enough to talk on IRC even if we are sitting in the same room ;-) 05:32 calc so someone needs to bring duct tape ;) === fabbione casts his "waitress" spell 05:33 heno I don't think there is a rota; we should set one up 05:33 cjwatson I think that would help, so that we can see who's gone before 05:33 cjwatson heno: will you take care of that? 05:33 bdmurray The week before the sprint would be closer to the Tribe 2 release though. 05:34 Hobbsee bdmurray: i'd agree with you @ the less talking on irc - it becomes very much a canonical-only event that wya - or the feeling of it. 05:35 heno sure, anyone esp. interested in joining the next bug day? ... 05:35 cjwatson ACTION: heno to set up skeleton bug day developer rota and mail to distro-team 05:35 cjwatson heno: let's get it up in a form that people can add to it, and we can hassle folks later 05:35 heno right 05:35 cjwatson bdmurray: I'd be happy with the week before the sprint 05:35 cjwatson if you're happy to have bug days in two consecutive weeks 05:36 bdmurray I think that makes more sense than waiting until after Tribe 3 05:36 cjwatson amitk: welcome, although we're just finishing up ;-) 05:37 bdmurray However, there is a US holiday on July 4th which is a Wednesday 05:37 amitk cjwatson: sorry, I lost track of time 05:37 agoliveira Sorry guys, got go. Boss is calling! Bye! 05:37 calc bdmurray: thu should be fine at least for the US 05:38 calc bdmurray: but yea you probably won't find many people in the US online on july 4th ;) 05:38 bdmurray so 6/27 and 7/5 then? 05:38 heno sounds good 05:38 bdmurray and then 7/25 05:38 bdmurray which is after Tribe 3 05:39 cjwatson that works 05:39 cjwatson we should be settling down pretty well with feature development by then 05:39 bryyce one thing that might be worthwhile would be to define a goal, like close 300 bugs (1% of total) 05:40 Hobbsee there was an aim yesterday of dropping it to 30K bugs. that seemed useful 05:40 cjwatson recent bug days seem to have been trying to tackle particular sets of problems, so goals in line with those would be good 05:40 calc looks like ~ 70 new bugs since the bug day yesterday 05:40 heno right, and other parts of triage than just cosing bugs are important as well 05:40 seb128 Hobbsee: did it success to go under the 30k line? ;) === bryyce nods to Hobbsee 05:40 calc seb128: hit around 30070 05:42 calc http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/ 05:42 Hobbsee seb128: i think it was down to 30080. what calc said. === Hobbsee went to bed. 05:42 keescook I love that our goal is no longer "make bugs reduce in number" but has moved on to "get below some number". nice work. :) 05:42 Hobbsee sigh. and then it went back up again. 05:42 heno so when are we turning apport back on for gutsy? 05:42 Hobbsee what i want to know is where the heck all these bugs are. 05:42 seb128 keescook: let's enjoy the week where apport is not running :p 05:42 bdmurray I think a fair number of the new ones were sync requests 05:42 keescook seb128: heheh 05:42 heno that will bring the exponential growth back ... 05:42 pitti I really want to wait until we get the private bug filing 05:42 calc Hobbsee: a huge chunk of bugs are on oo.o 05:42 Hobbsee ahhh 05:42 pitti the fix for that is in review 05:42 pitti also, dup detection is online now, so I hope it won't get that bad 05:42 seb128 pitti: there is no hurry 05:42 asac pitti: ETA? 05:43 zul Hobbsee: i think there is over 700 kernel bugs as well 05:43 pitti asac: I don't know, next LP rollout I hope 05:43 Hobbsee ah, fair enough 05:43 asac pitti: i would prefer to get firefox crashes on asap 05:43 heno I wonder if there is an optimal time in the cycle to get crash reports? === Hobbsee attempts to figure out how private bugs and apport fit together. oh, apport being able to file private bugs? 05:43 pitti asac: right; but we shuold really stop people from exposing their login credentials etc. to the public 05:43 cjwatson heno: right after finishing whatever feature you've just been working on, IME 05:43 shawarma Hobbsee: Yes. 05:43 seb128 Hobbsee: yes, for crashers 05:43 Hobbsee right. 05:44 pitti private bugs -> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CrashReporting please 05:44 pitti Hobbsee: ^ 05:44 asac pitti: yes ... but we did that for a long time ... so a week or so won't hurt imo :) 05:44 calc hmm i only see 123 bugs on openoffice.org scribblers page but i am pretty sure there are a lot more than that 05:44 asac pitti: but yes, i agree that private is important 05:44 iwj Has the thing been fixed where you get three mails about every crash ? 05:44 iwj It's really only useful to get at most one. 05:44 cjwatson calc: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org says 491 05:44 iwj Also, TBH I think it would be better not to regard apport crashes as bugs per se. 05:44 cjwatson 6 on -l10n 05:45 dholbach 4 on -amd64 05:45 shawarma iwj: How do you figure that? 05:45 pitti iwj: indeed; there are some plans, if you are interested, let's talk about it in #devel 05:45 Hobbsee pitti: looks sane. 05:45 calc cjwatson: yea i guess just 123 are assigned to the group or something to that effect === heno agrees with iwj 05:46 iwj pitti: OK. 05:46 asac pitti: if you talk about that, summon me please :) 05:46 calc there are slightly over 500 bugs for all the openoffice packages scribblers maintains 05:46 pitti asac: noted 05:46 iwj shawarma: I get about one report a month of a crash or other similar malfunction in dpkg and these nowadays almost invariably turn out to be `user has completely broken computer and pureed filesystem'. 05:47 pitti calc: so, good luck with fixing all of them until tribe-2 === pitti ducks 05:47 calc pitti: lmao 05:47 cjwatson ok, can the rest of this go to #ubuntu-devel? 05:47 bdmurray calc: relatively speaking it isn't that many though 05:47 cjwatson it sounds like we're done here 05:47 iwj dpkg isn't that huge a memory user. So extrapolating, I imagine that a fair proportion of crash reports in oo.o and firefox and the like are just bad hardware. 05:48 shawarma iwj: Right, but as a general rule, don't you think an apport generated bug report represents an actual bug? 05:48 cjwatson certainly ubiquity bugs are disproportionately bad hardware 05:48 iwj shawarma: In the case of dpkg clearly the answer is no. 05:48 cjwatson although the ones that aren't are significant 05:48 calc bdmurray: yea only about 1.7% 05:48 shawarma iwj: hence "general rule". :) 05:48 bdmurray so Hobbsee asking about where they all are is a good question 05:48 bdmurray or interesting 05:48 iwj `As a general rule, all X are Y' `No, here is a big subclass of X which are usually not'. === mvo blames bad hardware usually too when apt crashes 05:49 iwj What you mean is `As a general rule, most X are Y' which may be true but we don't know. 05:49 iwj Anyway. 05:49 calc bdmurray: is there a way to extract a report of bugs per package to get a top offending list? 05:49 iwj Are we planning to have the team dinner on the Friday night or earlier ? I'm just thinking about people missing flights, you understand :-). 05:49 Hobbsee bdmurray: i'd like to see a https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs for all bugs in ubuntu, but i havent badgered the #launchpad guys as to how feasible it is, and to get an ETA on it. 05:49 iwj (I mean, for the London sprint.) 05:49 cjwatson Keybuk: do you know? I hadn't heard 05:49 shawarma iwj: I did not know that dpkg bugs were really a big subclass of Ubuntu bugs. I would have expected dpkg to have extraordinarily few bugs reported, actually. 05:50 Keybuk cjwatson: Friday, I understand 05:50 Keybuk I don't care, as long as it's not at Pizza Express 05:50 Keybuk ;) 05:50 bdmurray calc: bugnumbers -p --stats I think 05:50 bryyce mmm pizza 05:50 keescook iwj: I'd love the dinner to be Wed or earlier; I'm only there a half week 05:50 bryyce $ bugnumbers -p --stats 05:50 bryyce Package '--stats' not found. 05:51 cjwatson sprint dinner requests -> distro-team 05:51 dholbach bdmurray: -p openoffice.org ? 05:51 calc ah bughelper 05:51 cjwatson sounds like we're done, then 05:51 cjwatson adjourned
MeetingLogs/UbuntuDev/20070614 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:36:51 by localhost)