10:04   Keybuk  ok
10:04   Keybuk  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070621
10:04   Keybuk  let's get started
=== agoliveira would like to go to bed
10:05   Keybuk  any additional agenda items from anyone?
10:05   fabbione        nope
10:05   heno    bug day schedule volunteers
10:05   heno    (already under other business)
=== calc is here
=== Keybuk hands calc a tardy
10:07   Keybuk  #
10:07   Keybuk  C++ guru needed for bug 121461 (blocking inkscape merge) -- keescook
10:07   ubotu   Launchpad bug 121461 in glib2.0 "linking problem on i386 vs amd64" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121461
10:07   keescook        this is in progress, it seems, and the glib and gtkmm folks are on it.
=== dholbach hugs keescook
10:07   pitti   ah, the int vs. long issue?
10:07   keescook        it's breaking other things besides inkscape, but appears to be glib ABI breakage.  :(
10:07   calc    heh was great my first merge found a huge bug ;)
10:07   asac    keescook: great
10:08   keescook        yeah, all discovered because I was showing calc some merges with a "package I knew well and wouldn't have issues with" ha ha
10:08   calc    lol
10:08   fabbione        keescook: you win a biscuit
10:08   keescook        heh
10:09   pitti   this is tagged with tribe-2, is a fix until next Tuesday realistic?
10:09   bryce   congats calc :-)
10:09   keescook        I'm not sure.  dholbach do you know how quickly the glib folks tend to work?
10:10   dholbach        keescook: I'm sure this will be resolved quickly
10:10   pitti   this sounds like it could possibly affect lots of applications?
10:10   ogra    pfft ...
10:10   ogra    c++ only
10:11   dholbach        ogra: ....
10:11   dholbach        :)
10:11   keescook        yeah, though I'm still not 100% clear on which... is it just those that were recompiled, or will we actually see things crashing?
10:11   ogra    it will teach them to take python in the future HAHA !
10:11   keescook        ogra: it seems it's a glib ABI thing, so not just c++
10:11   dholbach        I didn't see crashes because of it yet, just ftbfs
10:11   keescook        okay, cool.
10:12   ogra    keescook, ouch
10:12   pitti   dholbach: sounds like pure luck then, always masking the higher 32 bits which are nonsense, or so :)
10:13   keescook        so, pitti, I'm not sure how to gauge the effect, but just instintively marked it tribe-2.  feel free to adjust it.
10:13   pitti   ok, so not being 'critical' seems to be justified then
10:13   shawarma        When is the Tribe-2 freeze anyway?
10:14   pitti   next Tuesday
10:14   Keybuk  shawarma: usually Tuesday
10:14   shawarma        Oh, ok.
10:14   pitti   I'll send a pre-announcement tomorrow
10:14   ogra    i'm not sure how the edubuntu CDs will look wrt ltsp ... the udeb isnt adjusted for the new ltsp stuff yet
10:14   ogra    and i had no time ot do a test install yet
10:15   Keybuk  ok
10:15   Keybuk  sounds like we have a hold on that one
10:15   Keybuk  PAM is very old (blocking at least AppArmor PAM module) -- keescook
10:15   Riddell some stuff with new apt for adept still need juggling about but it whould be fine in time
10:16   keescook        there was discussion in Debian to get PAM up to 0.99 after Etch.  This hasn't happened yet, and blocks at least the AA pam module.
10:16   ogra    Riddell, btw since gutsy-changes doesnt work ... i added a kubuntu theme to the new ldm today :) would be nice to get some default icons for the menu functions
10:16   Riddell ogra: ooh, will take a look
10:16   keescook        I've seen other mentions of other pam modules (ldap, etc) wanting 0.99, but I'm not sure what their state is.
10:16   pitti   ogra: oh, so it's not just me
10:16   keescook        does anyone else have any need for 0.99 PAM?
10:17   Keybuk  what's new about it?
10:17   mvo     Riddell: it seems like its working here locally, its just that xipian is blocking libept 0.5 afaics
10:17   pitti   keescook: TBH, that doesn't sound like a terribly good idea for tribe-2, unless we can be really sure to not break stuff?
10:18   keescook        pitti: sure, I didn't mean it for tribe2, I just wanted to bring it up for discussion.  should agenda items be limited to tribe-2 stuff?  i'm still new to the distro team.  :)
10:18   pitti   keescook: no, that's fine
10:18   keescook        Keybuk: it has a mess of additionally support utilities, headers, etc.  supposedly makes PAM modules easier to develop.
10:19   pitti   keescook: I just wasn't sure whether you meant 'upload the stuff tomorrow' :)
10:19   pitti   since this seems to be very intrusive, the best time would be right after tribe-2
10:19   keescook        yeah, no way, just curious if anyone had looked at PAM or needed 0.99 too.
10:19   pitti   for maximum testing exposure in gutsy without breaking the next alpha
10:20   Keybuk  pitti: though the point of the alpha is to get the maximum testing
10:20   shawarma        Keybuk: But surely only testing of things we're reasonably sure works?
10:20   Keybuk  otoh, it's hard to test things that won't build
10:20   calc    Keybuk: if pam breaks though can't test too much
10:20   pitti   Keybuk: right, but not exactly breaking it totally maybe?
10:20   shawarma        I'm guessing it'll take a while to merge a new pam package. I think I remember the ls of paches-applied/ was about an xterm full.
10:21   Riddell mvo: that should be sorted now, maybe debtags needs given back so it can get installed
10:21   Keybuk  ok, sounds like we have a plan; keescook, can you put together a migration plan and post to ubuntu-devel if it's difficult; and a rationale of why we need it
10:21   shawarma        So getting it in before Tuesday is going to be a stretch. Getting it in *and* doing just a bit of testing before tribe is... not likely to happen, I think.
10:21   Keybuk  we can continue the yes/no discussion there easy enough
10:21   mvo     Riddell: ok, cool
10:22   Keybuk  Release readiness update -- pitti
10:22   keescook        Keybuk: okay, the rationale is not very high, that's why I wanted to bring it up -- it sounds like I'm the only one interested in it.  :P
10:22   pitti   so, there are still a couple of tribe-2 bugs
10:22   pitti   I have some questions about some of them
10:22   pitti   #109320: evms blocks access to disk devices: evms is in universe now, is this still critical/tribe2? if so, is anyone working on it?
10:22   Keybuk  I must admit, that I haven't touched either of my tribe-2 bugs
10:23   Keybuk  since we're still waiting on Upstream to finish playing
10:23   Keybuk  we need to somehow uninstall evms from people's machines who had it installed since warty
10:23   pitti   since we kicked it out, I guess we can remove the milestone, but I wanted to know whether anyone loves evms so much
10:23   keescook        if evms is in universe, and I go cripple xmms to get it into universe, that means we can lose gtk1 too.
10:23   Keybuk  tollef does, but he's not here, so let's move on quickly before he's summoned :p
10:23   Keybuk  keescook: WIN!
10:24   pitti   keescook: right, I wanted to ask about xmms, too :)
10:24   pitti   ok, I'll kick that then
10:24   pitti   related to this:
10:24   pitti   #105936: snapshot creation failure race "in use: not deactivating": keescook, you said that this doesn't happen any more? Keybuk, I understand that this is part of a major redesign work, so this might not actually happen for tribe-2?
10:24   Keybuk  pitti: it does happen, just verrrrrrry rarely
10:24   keescook        pitti: got time after meeting to discuss xmms?
10:24   Keybuk  and not on kees' computer
10:24   ogra    keswhat wuld you want to criplle on it ?
10:24   ogra    *cripple
10:24   pitti   keescook: yes, please let's
10:24   Keybuk  basically it only happens if I put a sleep (30) in one bit of code
10:24   Keybuk  but that's still not fixed enough for me
10:24   Keybuk  so yes, I plan to fix this harder
10:24   pitti   keescook: we have xmms2 in binary NEW, too :)
10:24   keescook        heh
10:25   Keybuk  pitti: oh, and I've asked mvo to ask seb to throw the compiz switch for tribe-2
10:25   pitti   Keybuk: but it doesn't sound OMG enough for me to tribe-2, unless you suddenly found a spare day to work on this? :-)
10:25   keescook        ogra: to get it into universe, I need to drop xmms-flac which is built from "flac", main.
10:25   Keybuk  just for fun
10:25   pitti   Keybuk: yeeeearrrgh
10:25   pitti   :)
10:25   keescook        ogra: so, basically, xmms loses flac file support
10:26   Keybuk  pitti: you'll like it :p
10:26   pitti   although, admittedly, compiz was *much* less evil yesterday (I tried it again)
10:26   keescook        ugh.  does compiz tell me my xterm size yet?
10:26   dholbach        apart from wnck and my terminal-shortcut it works nicely for me
10:26   mvo     yeah, repeat after me: compiz is good
10:26   pitti   I just couldn't resize windows on the window edges
10:26   Keybuk  keescook: yes, enable the resizeinfo plugin
10:26   Keybuk  mvo: in fact, that one should be on by default
10:26   keescook        \o/
10:26   shawarma        keescook: We could also be really evil and yank the headers out of xmms, put them in th flac package and put the binary package in universe, and be done with it?
10:26   mvo     keescook: there is a info plugin for this
10:26   Keybuk  (since it's new since we made the plugin list)
10:27   mvo     Keybuk: I can arrange this
10:27   Keybuk  dholbach: oh, my terminal shortcut worked just fine
=== mvo puts it on the list of default plugins
10:27   Keybuk  after I fixed the terminal-command setting
10:27   keescook        shawarma: if that works, that's great.  I just didn't have any luck making that happen.
10:27   ogra    shawarma, thats what i thought
10:27   pitti   Keybuk: so, #105936 to tribe-3?
10:27   dholbach        Keybuk: aha?
10:27   Keybuk  pitti: please
=== dholbach tries that
10:27   pitti   #121441: mysql-server-5.0: "replace" binary man page is non-free: mathiaz, is that in the works?
=== Keybuk has been using compiz (plus fusion plugins) as his primary window manager for weeks now; I'm happy with it
10:27   Keybuk  and that is a big milestone <g>
10:27   shawarma        keescook: Oh, you tried that already? Hm.. I could give it a go at some point.
10:28   mathiaz pitti: I filed a bug with debian
10:28   pitti   mathiaz: has it always been like that, or is this something new?
10:28   keescook        shawarma: well, I didn't try xmms headers into flac, but I tried flac into xmms.
10:28   mathiaz pitti: the man pages also have the copyright notice
10:28   heno    pitti: just found that today
10:28   heno    affects feisty too
10:28   shawarma        keescook: Ah.. I think my approach is a lot easier.
10:28   pitti   mathiaz: so, as a temporary fix those could just be dropped?
10:28   heno    so we should look at an SRU
10:28   shawarma        keescook: And hence more likely to succeed. :)
10:28   bryce   Keybuk: will the switch include logic to not turn on where compiz won't be supported (fglrx?)
10:28   keescook        shawarma: agreed.
10:28   pitti   heno: right, except that we cannot really change the package in the release
10:28   mathiaz pitti: well - that means shipping mysql without the man pages
10:29   Keybuk  bryce: if you can work with mvo to get that done in time
10:29   shawarma        mathiaz: Is it *all* man pages?
10:29   pitti   mathiaz: where did they come from in edgy?
10:29   mathiaz shawarma: most of them
10:29   shawarma        ffs..
10:29   pitti   mathiaz: can we ship them at all? or just not under GPL?
10:29   mathiaz pitti: they are not under GPL
10:29   shawarma        mathiaz: Not at all, I beliave.
10:29   shawarma        pitti: ^
10:29   ogra    mathiaz, split them out
10:35   pitti   mathiaz: right, I mean, are they redistributable in the first place?
10:35   shawarma        pitti: The license says you're not allowed to change them, afair.
10:35   heno    man mysql is non-GPL for example
10:35   ogra    mysql-doc and mysql-doc-nonfee
10:35   mathiaz pitti: it'S the same reason why debian stopped shipping the manual
10:35   pitti   if so, then we could just ship it in multiverse
10:35   pitti   shawarma: ok, that's good enough for multiverse; so we are allowed to ship them unchanged
10:35   shawarma        pitti: Ah, right.
10:35   mathiaz pitti: ok - so we could ship the man page in mysql-doc-nonfree
10:35   pitti   heno: that sounds too complex for an SRU TBH
10:35   heno    ok
10:35   pitti   mathiaz: right; want to look into that?
10:35   mathiaz pitti: yop
10:35   pitti   mathiaz: thanks
10:35   pitti   #119075: Root password policy for mysql: shawarma, did you hear any progress from Debian about this? what's the status on this?
10:35   pitti   that one really worries me
10:35   pitti   shawarma: can we talk about it after the meeting in #u-devel?
10:35   shawarma        I haven't taken it up with the debian dudes, yet.
10:35   shawarma        pitti: Sure.
10:35   pitti   #112994: java plugin does not work: asac, you grabbed this, but bug trail makes it unclear whether it's firefox' or java's fault
10:35   asac    pitti: i just updated it
10:35   pitti   but it doesn't sound like being a real tribe-2 blocker
10:35   asac    pitti: and set to triaged
10:35   asac    pitti: its basically a drop of legacy mozilla-firefox folder(link) that causes this ... plugin links need to be readjusted
10:35   asac    pitti: i can do the upload ... but would like to ping doko first.
10:35   pitti   asac: if that patch is everything needed, it sounds it could make it to tribe-2 very well? especially since it's not on the CD?
10:35   asac    pitti: yes ... it should definitly be done for tribe-2
10:35   pitti   asac: thanks
10:35   pitti   #119341: glxinfo command causes Xorg to abort on Dimension E520: bryce, you milestoned this, but it does not seem a super urgent thing, since it is not even reproducible?
10:35   pitti   and (let's timeshare the channel a bit)
10:35   pitti   #118745: default desktop/panel menu font sizes too small; IMHO we should really revert the current hack of changing font sizes and revert to fixed 96 DPI until X is sorted out; dholbach, WDYT?
10:35   bryce   probably not
10:35   bryce   pitti: yeah I could not reproduce it, so need to investigate a bit more
10:35   fabbione_       sorry.. adsl did shake...
10:35   dholbach        pitti: I'd prefer to hear seb128 on that
10:35   bryce   there is an upstream bug I found with the same backtrace
10:35   pitti   bryce: it has an upstream bug, so let's just wait for upstream then? fine with moving the milestone?
10:35   bryce   yup
10:36   pitti   dholbach: ok, he'll be back tomorrow, right? #u-desktop tomorrow?
10:36   pitti   ok, thanks guys; sorry for being a nuisance
10:37   pitti   Keybuk: I'm done
10:37   Keybuk  good-o
10:37   dholbach        pitti: yep
=== heno hugs pitti
=== dholbach hugs pitti
10:37   Keybuk  heno: Schedule developers for the next few Bug Days: UbuntuBugDay/Schedule
10:37   heno    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Schedule
10:37   shawarma        I'm planning on putting out a call for server bug triaging, so I'll probably be hanging out there.
10:38   pitti   heno: it would be nice to mention the bug day's topic/focus there, so that we can subscribe when we actually have some competency to weigh in
10:38   shawarma        Where server bugs means "bugs in apache, mysql, openssh and that sort of thing".
10:38   heno    shawarma: cool, just pick a day and sign up
10:38   heno    pitti: suggestions are welcome
10:38   heno    I'd rather do it the other way around
10:39   shawarma        Oh, the bug days are specialised nowadays?
10:39   pitti   right
10:39   heno    that those who want to join can pick the topic
10:39   pitti   makes sense
10:39   shawarma        Wicked. Sign me up for Wednesday.
10:39   heno    shawarma: they don't have to be
10:39   heno    looks like we have a topic for next week :)
10:40   shawarma        \o/
10:40   bdmurray        maybe each mentor could pick a query of bugs to work on?
10:40   heno    mathiaz: can you make it then as well?
10:40   mathiaz heno: no. I'll be offline that day.
10:40   mathiaz heno: (travelling)
10:40   heno    ah, ok
10:41   dendrobates     I'll be there Wednesday.
10:42   heno    dendrobates: cool, so that's well covered
10:42   heno    ok, everyone knows the URL now, feel free to sign up later
10:42   Keybuk  ok, cool
10:42   Keybuk  any other business for today?
10:42   Riddell Keybuk: could you give back debtags
10:43   Keybuk  I don't have buildd access these days
10:43   mvo     There are still some open merges left and today debianimportfreeze
10:43   Keybuk  there are, but the number of open merges is low enough not to worry I think
10:43   Keybuk  we've never hit zero
10:43   pitti   Riddell: I can
10:43   mvo     ok
10:43   Keybuk  if anyone wants to pick them up and do them, that's ok
10:43   calc    i'm working on merges as well
10:43   Keybuk  but we seem to be in a pretty good shape ABI-wise
=== mvo will spend some time tomorrow on merges
10:44   calc    need some done for my motu app
10:44   ogra    does anyone know anything about the status of gutsy-changes ?
10:44   Keybuk  ogra: dunno
10:44   calc    mvo: i'm primarily working on universe merges right now though
10:44   ogra    i pinged in #c-sysadmin but got no answer ... seems there were no mails since yesterday night 0:30 UTC
10:45   Keybuk  that sounds very much like an LP change
10:45   Keybuk  did the magic mail headers change, I wonder
10:45   pitti   ogra: I pinged Celso, but was directed to the list masters
10:45   Keybuk  that's about the time they did the rollout
10:45   pitti   changelog-closes-bugs is broken as well, I filed a bug
10:46   ogra    seems there were two rejeted mails from gutsy-changes-owner to -motu
10:46   ogra    this afternoon ...
10:46   pitti   <cprov> pitti: ouch, source are being escaped from closing-bug-code because they are being published in upload-time ...
=== mvo got some reject mails too
10:46   pitti   whatever that means
10:46   shawarma        :) YEs that sounds a bit cryptic.
10:47   bdmurray        pitti: is the changelog-closes-bugs being broken worth announcing?  will may bugs not get closed due to changes.
10:47   pitti   bdmurray: https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/121606, FYI
10:47   ubotu   Launchpad bug 121606 in soyuz "changelog-closes-bugs does not work any more since today's rollout" [Critical,Triaged]
10:47   pitti   bdmurray: hm, indeed, sending it to u-d-a@ cannot hurt
10:48   shawarma        Does anyone know why we still keep the kbd-chooser source package?
10:48   shawarma        (It's in universe)
10:48   pitti   Riddell: debtags is dependency wait, nothing to give back
10:49   bryce   shawarma: wouldn't surprise me if it's just legacy
10:49   Riddell pitti: ok, that should be sorted out now but maybe something is still holding it back, I'll work it out
10:49   pitti   Missing Dependencies:  libept-dev (>= 0.5.2)
10:49   pitti   libept-dev | 0.4.7ubuntu2 |         gutsy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
10:50   shawarma        bryce: Possibly. It hasn't been touched since edgy.
10:50   Riddell pitti: ept was waiting on xapian, which I promoted to main today
10:50   Riddell maybe I did the promotion wrong
10:50   Keybuk  ok, we're wandering around other topics now; so let's adjourn and let those who don't want to stay up and play leave
10:50   Keybuk  thanks all

MeetingLogs/UbuntuDev/20070621 (last edited 2008-08-06 17:01:04 by localhost)