Ubuntu Wiki

Attendance

People Present:

1. Hobbsee
2. pitti
3. iwj
4. mdz
5. doko
6. calc
7. cjwatson
8. seb128
9. mvo
10. fabbione
11. Keybuk
12. ogra
13. dendrobates
14. bryce
15. BenC
16. asac
17. Mithrandir
18. Riddell
19. agoliveira
20. bdmurray
21. tkamppeter
22. kwwii
23. evand
24. amitk
25. mathiaz
26. Skiessi

Summary

Meeting started by mdz at 15:06 15:07:21 Topic: release management and tribe-4

15:09:03 LINK mdz week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809

15:22:10 ACTION mdz pitti to summarize and discuss release management questions by mail

15:23:06 Topic: (pitti) progress discussion for Ubuntu 6.06.2 point release

15:28:15 ACTION mdz pitti to draft revised schedule for 6.06.2

15:29:01 Topic: pitti is going on holiday and needs people to fill in on some tasks while he is away

15:29:07 ACTION mdz BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs

15:34:24 LINK mdz https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2

15:40:15 ACTION mdz pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday

15:42:42 ACTION mdz mdz to learn about the RT priority scheme and set an appropriate one for #28728

15:44:30 Topic: Other business

15:49:24 ACTION mdz tkamppeter and pitti to discuss CUPS version, etc.

Meeting ended at 15:49.

Logs

Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[15:06:52] <Hobbsee> mdz: it'd be nice if we could get it off the LP release cycle too, if possible.
[15:06:57] <pitti> seb128: I appreciate that
[15:07:03] <Hobbsee> mdz: so that LP doesnt break when trying to release
[15:07:03] <iwj> Having a mini _feature_ freeze in addition to the archive freeze, before the milestone, seems eminently sensible.
[15:07:04] <pitti> seb128: just discussing alternatives
[15:07:12] <mdz> MootBot: sorry for not telling you at the beginning of the meeting
[15:07:19] <doko> rushing in OO.o at this point wasn't necessary, the release stopper bug which was present in 2.2 wasn't fixed in 2.3
[15:07:19] <pitti> if we introduce a new feature, it shuold work well and make us proud
[15:07:21] <mdz> [TOPIC] release management and tribe-4
[15:07:28] <pitti> announcing something that barely works is bad IMHO
[15:07:47] <pitti> MootBot? that's new
[15:07:54] <calc> doko: we finally have a firm grasp on what the bug is however and that was within the past couple days
[15:07:56] <pitti> doko: right
[15:07:58] <cjwatson> doko: the rationale was that it needed to land before UVF anyway and OOo needs as much testing as we can give it
[15:07:58] <mdz> MootBot is a tool that the Ubuntu Scribes team created
[15:08:00] <Hobbsee> pitti: it's from the scribes team
[15:08:03] <pitti> doko: but we only knew that *after* it was uploaded
[15:08:04] <mdz> to track meeting activity so they can summarize it
[15:08:11] <pitti> doko: before we assumed that it would fix the eternal hang
[15:08:16] <pitti> that was due to a bad misunderstanding
[15:08:30] <seb128> pitti: the goal is to get those working nicely for gutsy, not to be perfect for whatever tribe they land to imo
[15:08:47] <calc> apparently depending on which libraries you have installed (not just -gtk) it may happen to work for a user, or not
[15:08:50] <cjwatson> I think we focus too much on having no major problems in a milestone, sometimes
[15:08:55] <pitti> seb128: maybe not perfect, but it should reasonably work at least
[15:09:01] <cjwatson> the goal is for major problems from one milestone to be fixed in the next
[15:09:03] <mdz> [LINK] week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809
[15:09:03] <doko> pitti: well, in the past we did prepare new OOo versions in ppa archives first, and only did upload when it was working on all release archs.
[15:09:04] <mvo> I agree with seb128 here (also the banlance needs to be maintained, we can not release too broken tribes)
[15:09:08] <cjwatson> not for no new ones to turn up
[15:09:28] <cjwatson> and I think it's inevitable that we only notice certain problems when people focus on testing
[15:09:33] <pitti> cjwatson: "focus too much on having no major problems in a milestone" -> TBH I think we have too many
[15:09:44] <pitti> cjwatson: I agree
[15:09:49] <pitti> so this time I *did* some early testing last week
[15:09:55] <pitti> and CDs looked quite good
[15:09:58] <calc> gtk changed something that causes partial initialization of it to fail horribly instead of just happening to still work
[15:09:59] <seb128> pitti: well, we either should perhaps target less features then and focus on bug fixing
[15:10:01] <iwj> cjwatson: Having a slightly longer period for people who've just rushed in an upload to say `oh wait no that's horridly broken let me fix it' might help a bit.
[15:10:04] <pitti> but then we rushed a few new features in
[15:10:19] <calc> which bit several programs including OOo, some OOo libraries probably do full init which causes it to work if they are around
[15:10:20] <pitti> seb128: well, then we'll slip on features, not good either
[15:10:25] <pitti> we just need to land them a little earlier
[15:10:36] <seb128> right, easy to say
[15:10:42] <cjwatson> iwj: that's true. though it is the zeno's tortoise development model to some extent :-)
[15:10:42] <fabbione> pitti: isn't this why we have a release manager to blame? :P
[15:10:43] <pitti> seb128: I know :/
[15:10:47] <seb128> I know I've landed some things late but that was not bad willing
[15:10:57] <pitti> seb128: I'm not blaming you for anything
[15:10:58] <seb128> that's the best I could manage without dholbach there to give an hand
[15:11:00] <mdz> pitti: perhaps it would help to send out an early "start getting things in now" before the "freeze is imminent" reminder?
[15:11:07] <pitti> the tribe's done, it reasonably works, but I think we can improve
[15:11:19] <pitti> and I'd like to discuss that with you isntead of deciding on my own
[15:11:20] <seb128> pitti: right, but most of the late changes there are desktop things I've landed, so I feel it's part of my fault
[15:11:36] <Keybuk> mdz: what would be the timescale for that mail?
[15:11:39] <seb128> but that was either that or not landing things this cycle
[15:11:40] <pitti> mdz: that might help, yes, together with a mini feature-freeze on Thursday before maybe
[15:11:43] <mvo> seb128: I think a lot of people had their share this time (my apt change included)
[15:11:47] <iwj> You could have a soft freeze "please try to avoid uploading your new feature after if possible and consider whether the next milestone might not be a better target" ?
[15:11:51] <mdz> Keybuk: pitti's decision, I think
[15:12:07] <pitti> some ten days before release, I think
[15:12:10] <pitti> Monday the week before
[15:12:21] <mdz> pitti: perhaps some tools would help as well
[15:12:22] <pitti> we'll find out
[15:12:32] <mdz> perhaps if every time one ran dput, it would print the next week or so of the release schedule :-)
[15:12:38] <pitti> heh
[15:12:41] <mdz> to remind folks to plan ahead
[15:12:41] <seb128> pitti: with a feature freeze 10 days ago I would never have managed to land the desktop changes and they would have been delayed to next cycle maybe
[15:12:46] <Keybuk> pitti: in the latter half of the release cycle, that's almost the day after the previous tribe :p
[15:12:55] <pitti> seb128: no, not feature freeze, announcement
[15:13:12] <pitti> seb128: mini-FF on Friday evening before tribe
[15:13:13] <cjwatson> iwj: I think we'd have to space milestones out more in order to have finer granularity
[15:13:20] <cjwatson> (which would not *necessarily* be a bad thing)
[15:13:23] <seb128> pitti: k
[15:13:38] <mdz> pitti: if the problem was with the new features that seb landed, it doesn't sound like awareness is the problem, but simply too much work to be done in too little time
[15:13:43] <doko> and more freezes don't help for features which are unrelated to milestones
[15:13:44] <pitti> yeah, ten days advance announcement for new features works for three weeks
[15:13:49] <pitti> two weeks is very tight on its own
[15:13:52] <iwj> pitti: I see people working weekends to fix their Friday rush jobs :-).
[15:14:22] * mvo is sure that will happen
[15:14:30] <cjwatson> iwj: *cough*
[15:14:43] <pitti> doko: things like lpia don't really affect the CDs, so those are fine
[15:15:08] <cjwatson> pitti: but longer freezes do adversely affect bootstrapping jobs like that
[15:15:11] <doko> pitti: besides hold of single long building packages, so these affect lpia as well
[15:15:14] <pitti> mdz: right, in the end it simply boils down to lack of manpower
[15:15:43] <pitti> doko: s/long building packages/major packages that affect the CDs/
[15:16:06] <pitti> maybe we should first define what we expect from a Tribe CD
[15:16:08] <mdz> pitti: blame france ;-)
[15:16:21] <doko> pitti: a library yes, more? didn't even change something for the milestone architectures ;-)
[15:16:32] <pitti> either 'something that you can use to show off Ubuntu' or 'something that (mostly) installs and is used to find bugs'
[15:17:10] <mdz> pitti: I consider the latter to be more appropriate
[15:17:15] <ogra> ++
[15:17:26] <Hobbsee> and also being a reasonable time to dist-upgrade, without your system falling to pieces
[15:17:35] <mdz> installs/upgrades
[15:17:37] <pitti> mdz: but then we shouldn't make such a fuss about it with wiki pages and www.ubuntu.com announcements
[15:18:05] <mdz> pitti: we do want to communicate about it, so that it gets testing
[15:18:11] <pitti> and change the tone of announcements to be more developer-oriented
[15:18:18] <mdz> and previews of new features are a good reason for people to test it
[15:18:18] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: it's a very constrained point in time, though. about an hour after the release, all the frozen uploads land and it destabilises again
[15:18:23] <mdz> but they can expect things to be broken
[15:18:29] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: so by the time most people read the announcement, it's already unstable again
[15:18:30] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: this is true - hence it's more in the leadup to the tribe, i guess.
[15:18:48] <pitti> mdz: right, but if even we already know that your desktop doesn't even start often, or that feature X is broken or makes no sense (fusa on edubuntu etc.), what's the point in more testing?
[15:18:50] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: that depends on how long it takes to build everything, too ;)
[15:19:05] <Keybuk> pitti: finding other things that are wrong
[15:19:06] <pitti> mdz: (slightly exaggerating, of course)
[15:19:11] <pitti> Keybuk: right
[15:19:13] <mdz> pitti: we should advertise a feature iff it's able to be tested
[15:19:19] <pitti> Keybuk: that would be with the 'developer-oriented releases'
[15:19:38] <pitti> ok
[15:19:38] <mdz> pitti: I don't consider testing to be exclusively developer-oriented
[15:19:57] <mdz> many people in the user community do useful testing who are not developers
[15:20:06] <Keybuk> indeed; some of the best feedback I've had this cycle is from getting some pure users to test a Tribe Live CD
[15:20:35] <pitti> mdz: well, it may simply be that my quality expectations of an announced test CD are too high then :)
[15:20:41] <dendrobates> mdz: mathiaz and I were just discussing the need for uat,
[15:20:48] <bryce> Keybuk: same here
[15:21:22] <pitti> ok, thanks all, no need to block the entire meeting with that
[15:21:34] <pitti> I think I'll write some ideas and a summary to distro-team@
[15:21:39] <mdz> dendrobates: uat?
[15:21:49] <mdz> pitti: ok
[15:21:53] <dendrobates> user acceptance testing.
[15:21:58] <pitti> oh, and most of all:
[15:22:09] <Hobbsee> pitti: could you CC me on that, if appropriate, as i'm interested in it as well
[15:22:10] <mdz> [ACTION] pitti to summarize and discuss release management questions by mail
[15:22:10] <pitti> thanks to the entire team for your great work and the night shifts!
[15:22:15] * pitti hugs the team
[15:22:19] <mdz> pitti: I think ubuntu-devel would be more appropriate
[15:22:32] <ogra> pitti, i really think mvo deserves an extra hug from us all ;)
[15:22:41] * seb128 hugs pitti, sorry for the hard time, you are doing a rocking work ;)
[15:22:41] <pitti> and calc, too!
[15:22:45] <ogra> yeah
[15:22:50] * pitti gives an extra hug to mvo, calc, and seb128
[15:22:52] <BenC> team hug!
[15:22:55] * Hobbsee hugs all of those who *didnt* break compiz this release.
[15:23:02] * mvo hugs pitti calc seb128 ogra
[15:23:06] <mdz> [TOPIC] (pitti) progress discussion for Ubuntu 6.06.2 point release
[15:23:11] <pitti> mvo: yeah, indeed, no OMGnodesktop!! things this time
[15:23:15] <mvo> Hobbsee: that would be me! *yyyuuuahhhh*
[15:23:20] <Hobbsee> mvo: :D
[15:23:23] <asac> pitti: yes ... many thanks!
[15:23:26] <Keybuk> mvo: well done!
[15:23:26] <pitti> (oh god, I 0wn the schedule, it seems)
[15:23:32] <Keybuk> (for compiz in general)
[15:23:43] <mvo> we even fixed the nasty --replace issue
[15:23:54] <bryce> :-)
[15:23:58] <pitti> so, apart from all the fuss about new features and getting gutsy fixed, etc., we still need to get dapper.2 out
[15:24:00] * mvo sends kudos to upstream
[15:24:16] <pitti> since we are falling behind on the dapper.2 schedule due to ENOTIME, I have a question, mostly to mdz
[15:24:17] * calc hugs everyone, sorry for the mess :\
[15:24:30] <cjwatson> two out of three of the installer fixes are in -proposed; the other is in my editor
[15:24:36] <pitti> should we rather cut down on the dapper.2 goals, or give this more time to solve them all and slip the end-august release?
[15:24:45] <mdz> pitti: what kind of tasks need to be done?
[15:24:57] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2 (sort by status preferably)
[15:25:18] <mdz> pitti: making a good point release is more important than the tentative schedule
[15:25:24] <mdz> pitti: but the reason it was set was to avoid clashing with the beta
[15:25:25] <pitti> the kernel team is much over-represented in the assignee list, due to dapper.2 mostly being a 'get it working wiht new hw' thing
[15:25:36] <cjwatson> also two point releases are harder than one longer one
[15:25:42] <cjwatson> (oo-er)
[15:25:43] <mdz> pitti: looks like mostly kernel work?
[15:25:51] <BenC> Yeah, kernel work is in progress
[15:25:59] <pitti> mdz: I just didn't know how firm the date is wrt. business partners etc.
[15:26:04] <BenC> I expect to have a kernel to cjwatson by tomorrow to roll an ISO for testing
[15:26:14] <mdz> pitti: we haven't announced the date yet, so if you want to propose a more realistic one, pleas edo
[15:26:14] <pitti> mdz: many bugs are even simple things like loading a module in initramfs
[15:26:18] <cjwatson> BenC: note that I'm on holiday all next week
[15:26:24] <cjwatson> (and nowhere near a computer)
[15:26:25] <BenC> cjwatson: so am I
[15:26:31] <mdz> pitti: I explicitly didn't announce it at ubuntu live for this reason
[15:26:38] <pitti> some are quite tricky kernel fixes, and we have a couple of needsinfo bugs which still need judgement from kernel guys
[15:26:47] <pitti> mdz: good to know then
[15:27:07] <BenC> pitti: ah, I didn't realize there were any kernel bugs that weren't confirmed in the list
[15:27:11] <pitti> some changes in mysql, too
[15:27:23] <pitti> BenC: not many, I think #26940 only ATM
[15:27:26] <BenC> pitti: I'll review the bugs today
[15:27:47] <mdz> pitti: can you take some time to estimate an achievable schedule, and we'll discuss that?
[15:27:50] <pitti> those are the things were I'm not qualified to judge eligibility (or even feasibility) for dapper.2
[15:27:54] <mdz> (probably based on Ben's review)
[15:28:06] <pitti> yes, can do
[15:28:15] <mdz> [ACTION] pitti to draft revised schedule for 6.06.2
[15:28:19] <pitti> BenC: can we meet at some time to go over the list and write down some estimations?
[15:28:32] <BenC> pitti: tomorrow, my morning, sound ok?
[15:28:38] <pitti> BenC: good for me
[15:28:53] <pitti> then we should also fine-tune assignees
[15:28:57] <BenC> [ACTION] BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs
[15:29:01] <mdz> [TOPIC] pitti is going on holiday and needs people to fill in on some tasks while he is away
[15:29:02] * BenC wonders if that will work
[15:29:07] <mdz> [ACTION] BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs
[15:29:11] <BenC> bot ACLs suck :)
[15:29:27] <mdz> BenC: no, according to the web page it's only the chair for that command
[15:29:29] <pitti> BenC: /nick privilege escalation \o/
[15:29:33] <BenC> ah
[15:30:15] <mdz> I think that in general, MootBot should listen to actions from everyone, but automatically assign the action to the person ;-)
[15:30:28] <pitti> so, we need an experienced RM to take over tribe 5&6 and dapper.2 (cjwatson or Mithrandir?)
[15:30:38] <BenC> hehe, that will reduce the abuse
[15:30:42] <mdz> Mithrandir is going to be flat out on mobile during that time
[15:31:02] <pitti> not sure if Hobbsee has some time to assist?
[15:31:02] <mdz> I think he is already oversubscribed
[15:31:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: I am already fully booked, yes.
[15:31:34] <Hobbsee> pitti: maybe. it will depend on how much people want to work as a team, etc, and how much time i have
[15:32:03] <Hobbsee> looks like cjwatson just got voluntold to do it :P
[15:32:14] <pitti> I also expect tribe 6 to be much calmer, with FF and UVF being in place then
[15:32:33] <pitti> tribe 5 is probably tough again, with lots of features getting rushed in (necessarily)
[15:32:39] <cjwatson> cjwatson is not exactly undersubscribed either
[15:32:43] <Hobbsee> pitti: obviously, i'm not in a position to take control of it, unfortunately
[15:33:01] <pitti> Hobbsee: right
[15:33:07] <cjwatson> I can help, but not take full responsibility
[15:33:09] <Hobbsee> although i'd sure like to
[15:33:34] <mdz> pitti: we need someone who is a cdimage admin?
[15:33:49] <pitti> mdz: and an archive admin, and some soyuz knowledge
[15:34:07] <Keybuk> Riddell: would you be interested? you have the above and experience getting releases out
[15:34:17] <pitti> although I don't expect every tribe to take as much soyuz h4ck1ng as I had to do in the past two days :)
[15:34:20] <cjwatson> cdimage admin nature is easier, it's just the end-stage
[15:34:24] <mdz> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2
[15:34:30] <pitti> yeah, building CDs is simple
[15:34:31] <cjwatson> soyuz prodding is more frequently needed really
[15:34:46] <pitti> steering soyuz is more difficult
[15:34:49] <Hobbsee> pitti: presumably you're doing the release, afterwards?
[15:34:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: fwiw, I've yet to hack soyuz, ever.
[15:34:54] <pitti> and having some archive admin experience
[15:34:55] <Riddell> Keybuk: possibly, of course I'm busy with other things but then so is everyone else
[15:35:01] <mdz> pitti: could adam help with soyuz steering?
[15:35:06] <pitti> Hobbsee: I don't think so
[15:35:14] <pitti> mdz: absolutely, if he can make room for that
[15:35:27] <Hobbsee> pitti: oh, so that's going to fall to the person who will be selected too. big call, then
[15:35:35] <pitti> having our archive team and infinity assisting the RM with the soyuz guts will work
[15:35:36] <mdz> pitti: check with elmo, but he's qualified
[15:36:42] <mdz> pitti: is that satisfactory then?
[15:37:16] <mdz> Riddell(?) + archive team + infinity(or someone else who can drive soyuz)
[15:37:38] <pitti> Riddell: if you are ok with it, I would be happy with that
[15:37:50] <pitti> and spreading the archive/soyuz work out will help a lot, too
[15:38:01] <Hobbsee> that'll certainly be interesting
[15:38:22] <Riddell> I'm no soyuz expert, but other than than I can
[15:38:33] <pitti> so RM: please push that package into the archive -- archive/soyuz guys steer publisher/queue-builder/queue etc.
[15:38:40] <mdz> it will be a challenge to fill his shoes, but Martin deserves a honeymoon :-)
[15:38:49] <pitti> Riddell: infinity is, and he generally works on insane (IOW European) hours anyway
[15:38:56] <pitti> \o/
[15:39:00] <Riddell> :)
[15:39:03] <cjwatson> Riddell: I think we have enough people with the necessary combination of domain knowledge and outright bravery for that
[15:39:11] <Hobbsee> pitti: all australians seem to work on european hours. australian hours suck!
[15:39:13] <pitti> I am allowed to take the laptop with me, but I'll be a divorced man if I'll sit at it all day :)
[15:39:27] <cjwatson> advice from a married man: DO NOT TAKE THE LAPTOP ON YOUR HONEYMOON
[15:39:28] * agoliveira never had a honeymoon in 12 years of marriage :(
[15:39:33] <mdz> pitti: [ACTION] pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday?
[15:39:42] <pitti> cjwatson: maybe that's a good piece of advice
[15:39:47] <fabbione> cjwatson: ++
[15:40:09] <BenC> cjwatson: but if you have to, don't take it to bed
[15:40:15] <mdz> [ACTION] pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday
[15:40:19] <BenC> it's not an enhancement to the mood for sure
[15:40:26] <calc> cjwatson: hehe, i did but had very sporadic internet access so it was ok ;)
[15:40:34] <mdz> Handholding the apport retracers; I filed RT#28728 to make this possible, and I will write some documentation about it; seb128 offered to help out here already
[15:40:51] <pitti> yeah, I still need to get that solved before other people can drive it
[15:40:59] <pitti> (nothing to discuss here, though)
[15:41:09] <mdz> ok
[15:41:11] <pitti> now with the tribe behind me I'll continue documentation writing
[15:41:17] <mdz> SRU bug handling and archive processing
[15:41:19] <asac> pitti: i have no experience with those so far, but would volunteer as well ... if there is documentation and a short introduction
[15:41:26] <pitti> mdz: oh, could you bump the priority of that RT perhaps?
[15:41:28] <seb128> I'm happy to deal with the retracer
[15:41:35] <pitti> asac: appreciated
[15:41:50] <pitti> once the RT is solved, I'll give you a tutorial
[15:41:58] <pitti> and a howto for the occasional hiccups
[15:42:05] <asac> right ;)
[15:42:16] <mdz> pitti: will do
[15:42:21] <pitti> mdz: thank you
[15:42:42] <mdz> [ACTION] mdz to learn about the RT priority scheme and set an appropriate one for #28728
[15:42:46] <pitti> seb128: we need an apport deskbar plugin!
[15:43:01] <pitti> btw, are those action points published somewhere by this cute little MootBot?
[15:43:02] <seb128> pitti: to do what?
[15:43:15] <pitti> seb128: let's find out :)
[15:43:27] <seb128> pitti: if you have a quick web browser bookmark you can already use it from deskbar ;)
[15:43:28] <pitti> seb128: find dups or so :)
[15:43:38] <pitti> seb128: (just kidding anyway)
[15:43:46] <Hobbsee> pitti: yes, they get published. somewhere.
[15:44:02] <mdz> (maybe) language pack building; this should not take any manual intervention actually, so it's not that crucial.
[15:44:16] <pitti> (nothing to discuss, will take that up with Arne)
[15:44:20] <mdz> ok
[15:44:30] <mdz> [TOPIC] Other business
[15:44:36] <mdz> anything else for the meeting?
[15:45:04] <Riddell> was I being volunteered for dapper or next tribe release management?
[15:45:06] * fabbione wishes to say goodbye for his last distro team meeting
[15:45:11] <pitti> Riddell: you are now
[15:45:17] * mvo waves to fabbione
[15:45:19] <doko> Riddell: soyzuz work without having access to the machines is limited
[15:45:21] <pitti> fabbione: *sheding a tear*
[15:45:23] <BenC> fabbione: you will be missed
[15:45:28] <Keybuk> Riddell: yes :-)
[15:45:30] <ogra> ciao fabbione
[15:45:32] * dendrobates waves goodbye to fabbione
[15:45:38] <Hobbsee> Riddell: both, it seems
[15:45:42] <fabbione> :)
[15:45:43] * bdmurray waves
[15:45:44] <tkamppeter> What about CUPS? Should we stay with 1.2.12 or move to 1.3?
[15:45:44] <bryce> cya fabbione!
[15:45:52] <kwwii> bye fabbione
[15:45:54] <pitti> tkamppeter: oh, good question; and s-c-p
[15:45:56] * evand waves
[15:45:57] <amitk> bye fabbione
[15:46:01] <mdz> fabbione will not be going too far
[15:46:05] <pitti> tkamppeter: what kind of feedback did you get so far?
[15:46:07] <mathiaz> bye fabbione
[15:46:14] <ogra> pitti, student-control-panel ?
[15:46:17] <mdz> but perhaps not staying into the evening for distro meetings if he doesn't have to ;-)
[15:46:20] <pitti> ogra: system-config-printer
[15:46:23] <pitti> ogra: yay TLAs :)
[15:46:24] <fabbione> mdz: yeah... just the next room :)
[15:46:29] <asac> bye fabbione
[15:46:30] <ogra> pitti, ouch ... evil
[15:46:40] <pitti> TBH it's much less evil now
[15:46:44] <tkamppeter> pitti, unfortunately no feedback at all, and I have posted on the devel-discuass list, no answer.
[15:46:48] <ogra> pitti, luckily we renamed to thin-client-manager :)
[15:46:53] <pitti> we recently discussed some UI enhancements in #u-devel
[15:46:57] <ogra> pitti, i only meant the naming :P
[15:46:58] <pitti> tkamppeter: hm
[15:46:58] <Skiessi> why gutsy has still SDL 1.2.11? why not 1.2.12?
[15:47:29] <cjwatson> Skiessi: -> #ubuntu-devel
[15:47:35] <Skiessi> okay
[15:48:33] <mdz> pitti: perhaps you and tkamppeter can discuss on #-devel after the meeting?
[15:48:35] <tkamppeter> pitti, for the s-c-p I think we should take it, g-c-m shows also a driver4 selection screen and it also shows the USB backend entries for printers which are supported by HPLIP. So the add printer wizard is not much better.
[15:48:53] <tkamppeter> OK, mdz.
[15:48:58] <pitti> ok
[15:49:24] <mdz> [ACTION] tkamppeter and pitti to discuss CUPS version, etc.
[15:49:31] <mdz> that's a wrap, folks
[15:49:33] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[15:49:34] <pitti> MootBot: --help
[15:49:37] <fabbione> bye bye
[15:49:38] <mdz> #endmeeting
Meeting ended.