20080220

Logs

TZ UTC -5

(01:59:22 AM) cjwatson: ok, so first things first, I've noticed that I'm taking a while to get the meeting notes out
(01:59:30 AM) cjwatson: would anyone like to volunteer as a secretary?
(01:59:56 AM) cjwatson: it's not particularly hard, I just find it tends to get pushed out of the way by other stuff
(02:00:11 AM) TheMuso: I'll do it if nobody else has a desire to... (Knowing that his essentially commits me to doing them, but oh well.)
(02:00:43 AM) TheMuso: I have done a few MOTU meeting minutes, so I know its not hard.
(02:00:50 AM) cjwatson: more than one volunteer means you get to alternate ;-)
(02:01:09 AM) TheMuso: There is that yes.
(02:01:44 AM) Hobbsee: or use mootbot?
(02:02:02 AM) cjwatson: mootbot might help but won't suffice; we want something human-edited
(02:02:19 AM) TheMuso: I don't think mootbot is applicable for these meetings.
(02:02:23 AM) TheMuso: No real need.
(02:02:49 AM) cjwatson: BTW, though I haven't historically got round to it, the notes should go up on the wiki somewhere as well as being posted to distro-team
(02:03:16 AM) cjwatson: TheMuso: ok, thanks for offering, and in that case please go ahead
(02:03:33 AM) TheMuso: cjwatson: Ok. What wiki URL format do we want to use?
(02:04:23 AM) TheMuso: I.e do we want the minutes udner a particular area in the wiki?
(02:04:26 AM) cjwatson: desktop is DesktopTeam/Meeting/YYYYMMDD
(02:04:42 AM) cjwatson: so PlatformTeam/Meeting/YYYYMMDD sounds good to me
(02:04:50 AM) TheMuso: fair enough
(02:05:11 AM) cjwatson:  * Actions from last week:
(02:05:11 AM) cjwatson:   * Arne to consult with Martin and Michael regarding
(02:05:11 AM) cjwatson:     langpack-o-matic/language-selector work
(02:05:25 AM) cjwatson: ArneGoetje: I understand Martin's side is done; how is Michael's side going?
(02:06:19 AM) ArneGoetje: mvo will do it, I guess he was to busy yesterday, but it is on his agenda for these days
(02:06:40 AM) cjwatson: ok, as long as it hasn't fallen off
(02:06:51 AM) cjwatson:   * Chris to check whether en_GB strings where msgid == msgstr have
(02:06:51 AM) cjwatson:     been stripped out of the English langpacks
(02:06:58 AM) ArneGoetje: nope, it hasn't. I'll keep you posted
(02:07:01 AM) cjwatson: calc: you mentioned something about this last night; any further progress?
(02:07:25 AM) calc: cjwatson: hadn't had a chance to talk to doko about it yet, been beating on the xulrunner stuff most of the day
(02:07:56 AM) calc: cjwatson: i emailed him but i don't know if he read it yet
(02:08:50 AM) calc: doko_: i seem to recall you mentioning before if we strip out messages it causes problems with OOo is that the case for cjwatson is talking about here?
(02:11:00 AM) cjwatson: doko_: are you in fact here?
(02:11:51 AM) cjwatson: ok, I think doko is present in body but not in spirit
(02:12:01 AM) cjwatson: let's move on and we can come back to that if he appears
(02:12:11 AM) cjwatson:  * LTS point release team
(02:12:17 AM) calc: ok, well i think he had said before that it causes crashes, but i may be misrembering and i'll try to find out for certain asap
(02:12:33 AM) cjwatson: calc: indeed, this ought to be subject to experimental verification once you get a chance
(02:12:49 AM) calc: ok
(02:13:11 AM) cjwatson: so, as I think has been mentioned, we're going to be doing point releases of 8.04, as an LTS
(02:14:21 AM) cjwatson: and we would like to put enough resources into that to make it pretty respectable, without burning people out who are already focusing on 8.10 development
(02:14:22 AM) asac: most likely in the middle of the server support cycle? (e.g. 2.5 years?)
(02:14:52 AM) cjwatson: asac: more frequently than that; the first point release is likely to be a few months out from 8.04 itself
(02:15:13 AM) cjwatson: I don't want to go into an exact schedule since this is a public channel and we haven't settled on it yet, and rumours do tend to spread :-)
(02:15:20 AM) TheMuso: cjwatson: Will it be similar to 6.06.2, where it will only be for servers, and not desktops? Or does that depend on what has been fixed?
(02:15:28 AM) asac: cjwatson: ok
(02:15:34 AM) cjwatson: TheMuso: in this case it'll be both
(02:16:00 AM) cjwatson: 6.06.2 was just servers because desktops were starting to look not worth the effort given the support lifetime
(02:16:14 AM) TheMuso: Yeah I thought thatwas the case.
(02:16:22 AM) cjwatson: but, in this case, it's a question of keeping a few desktop guys focused on 8.04 when they would ordinarily have switched over
(02:16:51 AM) asac: like catching up on features that didn't make the real release?
(02:17:01 AM) cjwatson: the current agreement is for Steve to lead this effort, and have a virtual team of a few platform, a few desktop, a few server, a few QA
(02:17:13 AM) cjwatson: asac: I think catching up on bug-fixing is more likely
(02:17:18 AM) asac: ok
(02:17:32 AM) cjwatson: this is, essentially, a stabilisation effort
(02:17:48 AM) evand: are we really large enough to lose that many people to such an effort without feature development in the next release seriously suffering?
(02:18:14 AM) cjwatson: feature development in 8.10 will likely take some kind of a hit, yes
(02:18:20 AM) cjwatson: although I don't think it will be a critical one
(02:19:02 AM) cjwatson: this is sort of similar in some ways to what we did with the 6.06 delay and its effect on 6.10, but hopefully a bit less severe
(02:19:17 AM) evand: ok
(02:19:43 AM) cjwatson: while 6.10 didn't open until June, 8.10 will open in April or early May as usual, and everyone who isn't still focused on 8.04 will be able to get it up and running
(02:20:53 AM) cjwatson: 8.04 is more important in many ways, though, and there is growing consensus that we need to be able to deliver stable and timely point releases of LTSes, rather than it being a side effort
(02:21:51 AM) cjwatson: so what I want to do here is both explain what's happening and answer questions on it, and also look for the right people to take part in this from this group
(02:22:53 AM) cjwatson: my feeling is that it should be the people who would be most snowed under with SRU work anyway
(02:23:42 AM) cjwatson: and also people with a capacity to field general platformish bugs from all over, which QA will be hunting down
(02:24:56 AM) cjwatson: deafening silence :-)
(02:25:36 AM) Hobbsee: you scared them all off!
(02:26:07 AM) ArneGoetje: well, I don't fit the criteria... :)
(02:26:11 AM) cjwatson: bryce: I suspect we may need somebody able to field X problems, for instance
(02:26:21 AM) bryce: cjwatson: sure thing
(02:26:59 AM) cjwatson: ok, I think I will select people over the next week or two and talk with you about it
(02:27:19 AM) cjwatson: but if you feel you are particularly appropriate or inappropriate for the task, please shout
(02:27:58 AM) cjwatson:  * Routines post-FF
(02:28:13 AM) TheMuso: I think I'd probably be inappropriate only because there is a lot of a11y stuff happening next cycle, and we need to keep on top of it, however, if I'm asked, I'll consider it.
(02:28:21 AM) cjwatson: TheMuso: *nod*, thanks
(02:29:04 AM) cjwatson: this is perhaps obvious to old-timers, but I just wanted to sketch out the routine from here to 8.04 so that everyone is clear on what we're expected to be doing from here on
(02:29:41 AM) cjwatson: with the exception of a few ... exceptions, features should be complete, although I expect that many of them may still need to have their bugs shaken out
(02:30:14 AM) cjwatson: for anything non-trivial, please go to special effort to gather explicit testing, and fill out the testing plan section on the wiki specification
(02:30:54 AM) cjwatson: other than that, we should be in full steam for fixing as many bugs as we can for hardy, and making it a great stable release
(02:31:16 AM) cjwatson: Leann has prepared a qa-hardy bug list just for us, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/platform-buglist.html
(02:31:25 AM) TheMuso: Nice
(02:31:27 AM) ***TheMuso bookmarks
(02:32:01 AM) cjwatson: if you have things on that, please either talk to me or her about untagging them (there's at least one infeasible grub bug I need to get untagged), or fix them at your earliest convenience
(02:33:04 AM) cjwatson: please also make sure you are adequately kept informed of new bugs coming in, and make sure to be responsive to them
(02:33:17 AM) asac: the firefox bugs don't make much sense ;) ... we should untag them all
(02:33:53 AM) cjwatson: even those you can't fix should get an update and forwarded upstream where appropriate
(02:33:54 AM) asac: i will talk with lean to figure the real bugs
(02:33:57 AM) cjwatson: asac: thanks
(02:34:00 AM) bryce: cjwatson: regarding feature exceptions, I'd like to talk with you about the xrandr configuration gui - RedHat is working on a tool which will be going upstream, and I'd like your direction about adopting and polishing that.  Or perhaps since we're past FF, other options I should take.
(02:34:18 AM) cjwatson: asac: looks like she was trying to gather the most-duplicates crash reports
(02:34:26 AM) cjwatson: bryce: yep, was going to come to that shortly
(02:34:59 AM) bryce: ok cool
(02:35:39 AM) cjwatson: in order to be kept informed of new bugs and new comments on existing bugs, Launchpad really isn't quite up to providing the sort of feed-type information you'd need to do this entirely with the web UI yet, and so it's important that you become friends with bugmail if you aren't already
(02:35:53 AM) cjwatson: pitti wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFilter which may be helpful in dealing with the flood
(02:36:33 AM) TheMuso: X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale is a useful filter.
(02:36:44 AM) ***TheMuso uses that for all bugmail that doesn't go to an ML.
(02:39:16 AM) cjwatson: bryce: ok
(02:39:37 AM) cjwatson: bryce: my concern on your question is that I thought you were already some way into your UI, and were nearing feature-completion
(02:40:46 AM) bryce: the UI is pretty well done, and I have been working on the application of the xrandr changes.
(02:42:02 AM) bryce: I estimate being about a week from having it feature complete, however the redhat tool is more likely to be accepted upstream
(02:42:18 AM) cjwatson: what's the current state of the RH tool?
(02:43:15 AM) bryce: it is functional and feature complete except for a couple minor things, but needs integration / packaging work done to it, and the UI needs a few tweaks
(02:43:58 AM) bryce: I dug through it and experimented with it a bit over the weekend, and it looks pretty well thought out.  It does need polish though.
(02:44:30 AM) cjwatson: I assume you only became aware of it over the last week? :-)
(02:44:52 AM) bryce: correct; I learned about it wednesday
(02:45:33 AM) cjwatson: is the reason that RH's tool is more likely to go upstream that it is being written by existing core X developers?
(02:45:39 AM) bryce: it came to light after I proposed what I was working on to the gnome-control-center list (whose archives I'd dug through before starting my effort)
(02:46:36 AM) bryce: The RH person working on it has been involved in gnome-control-center in the past, and I gather had discussed this with some of the gnome folks at a conference a while ago
(02:48:48 AM) cjwatson: hard choice
(02:48:51 AM) bryce: yeah
(02:49:23 AM) cjwatson: it sounds like the best plan is to grab desktop team folks and talk about the best way to get the RH work integrated ASAP; if possible, perhaps even for alpha 5
(02:49:31 AM) cjwatson: (though that's very close now)
(02:49:31 AM) bryce: other options I've thought about include just setting it aside for now, and fixing up displayconfig-gtk best we can, or even just dropping gui config and sticking with the command line solutions
(02:49:51 AM) cjwatson: but keep your existing work around in case we need to fall back to that
(02:49:56 AM) ***bryce nods
(02:50:16 AM) cjwatson: we'd already decided against displayconfig-gtk, I thought, and I don't think a command-line solution is good enough
(02:50:24 AM) bryce: yup
(02:50:59 AM) cjwatson: it is unfortunate that it's one more thing that the /. crowd can complain came from RH rather than Canonical ... but so it goes
(02:52:06 AM) bryce: yep, I was really looking forward to putting something from canonical upstream but I really get the sense it's not going to be an option here.
(02:52:12 AM) cjwatson: bryce: definitely grab seb128 and talk through it with him
(02:52:20 AM) bryce: great, thanks, will do.
(02:52:45 AM) cjwatson: any other business?
(02:53:52 AM) asac: maybe can take care that the previous meeting minutes go to wiki/public as well?
(02:54:15 AM) TheMuso: wiki/public?
(02:54:18 AM) cjwatson: I can do that over time, though I will have to check that I didn't put anything confidential in them
(02:54:19 AM) evand:  * What's the status of the pycentral issue?  We haven't had a new live
(02:54:20 AM) evand: filesystem since the 9th.
(02:54:42 AM) asac: cjwatson: ok
(02:54:47 AM) cjwatson: pycentral only came up yesterday; I thought Michael fixed it yesterday too?
(02:54:48 AM) ogra: evand, fixed
(02:55:03 AM) ogra: my dist-upgrade just went through like a breeze
(02:55:07 AM) TheMuso: I updated during today to find it fixed.
(02:55:10 AM) cjwatson: bug 192992 is still Confirmed
(02:55:12 AM) ubotu: Launchpad bug 192992 in python-central "[hardy] pycentral crashed with ValueError in parse_versions()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192992
(02:55:13 AM) slangasek: is it fixed?  the bug is listed as open
(02:55:30 AM) ogra: i dont think mvo added any LP entries to his changelog
(02:55:33 AM) evand: ah, we still seem to have trouble with the following though:
(02:55:37 AM) ogra: so need to be closed manually
(02:55:39 AM) evand:  ssl-cert
(02:55:39 AM) evand:  cupsys
(02:55:39 AM) evand:  cupsys-driver-gutenprint
(02:55:39 AM) evand:  hal-cups-utils
(02:55:39 AM) evand:  ubuntu-desktop
(02:55:44 AM) evand: not saying that's related to pycentral though
(02:55:55 AM) evand: from: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/hardy/ubuntu/20080220/livecd-20080220-amd64.out
(02:55:56 AM) ogra: cupsys is likely java related
(02:56:04 AM) evand: (that's from an hour or two ago)
(02:56:11 AM) ogra: and desktop is because of cupsys indeed
(02:56:12 AM) slangasek: ogra: ok; it was fixed in a python-central upload though, right?
(02:56:21 AM) ogra: slangasek, yep
(02:56:44 AM) ogra: mvo isnt around yet i think thats the reason he didnt close it yet (wanting feedback first)
(02:57:01 AM) cjwatson: ogra: cupsys fails because it depends on ssl-cert which fails
(02:57:04 AM) cjwatson: (read the log :-))
(02:57:11 AM) ogra: well, i was guessing :)
(02:57:13 AM) slangasek: ok, good to hear it's fixed then, that means I'll be able to get to sleep sooner tonight :)
(02:57:18 AM) cjwatson: ssl-cert looks like it's failing because hostname says "Unknown host"
(02:57:25 AM) ogra: heh
(02:57:32 AM) slangasek: oh ugh, that'd be my bug then
(02:57:50 AM) ogra: yeah, seems the network connection on the buildds sucks ... :) i just learned that with edubuntu-addon-meta :)
(02:57:59 AM) slangasek: cjwatson: the only change is hostname -> hostname -f; why does the one work and the other fail in the livefs build env?
(02:58:05 AM) slangasek: (hmm, we can take that out of the meeting)
(02:58:12 AM) ogra: (joking)
(02:58:34 AM) cjwatson: we do need to get new live filesystems today, but that's obvious :)
(02:58:40 AM) cjwatson: ok, if that's all, then we'll adjourn
(02:58:46 AM) cjwatson: thanks all
(02:58:50 AM) calc: goodnight everyone :-)
(02:58:50 AM) evand: thanks!
(02:58:51 AM) bryce: thanks
(02:58:52 AM) asac: thank!
(02:58:57 AM) TheMuso: Np, minutes may either be tongiht my time, but certainly tomorrow.
(02:58:58 AM) slangasek: thanks
(02:59:01 AM) TheMuso: my time
(02:59:02 AM) ArneGoetje: thanks
(02:59:13 AM) ogra: thanks

MeetingLogs/UbuntuDev/20080220 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:19:35 by localhost)