Xubuntu_2006-04-26
03:36 Gloubiboulga hi ! === zell1983 [n=zell1983@host30-78.pool8258.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:37 freeflying Gloubiboulga: hi, congrats === j_ack [n=nico@p508DC2DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:37 Gloubiboulga hi freeflying, thanks ! 03:38 janimo hi all 03:38 janimo congrats to Gauvain! === Jacopo_Smp_md_On [n=Jacopo@host-84-222-110-77.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:38 Gloubiboulga thanks janimo ! 03:38 Gloubiboulga Just did my first upload 03:39 janimo great! === janimo looks 03:39 freeflying Gloubiboulga: nice :) === doc_ [n=doc@CPE-72-128-84-225.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:39 Gloubiboulga janimo, sorry, not a Xubuntu one ;) 03:39 janimo yeah, but there is time for those too ) 03:39 janimo :) 03:40 Gloubiboulga yes :) 03:40 freeflying janimo: dose the space of xubuntu enough now? 03:40 janimo freeflying: enough for what? 03:40 janimo we have a lot of free space still 03:40 freeflying janimo: some scim's module 03:40 janimo for language support? 03:40 janimo sure 03:40 janimo just say which packages 03:41 freeflying great === _sHaDe [n=sHaDe@host249-208.pool8258.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:41 freeflying scim-pinyin scin-anthy scim-hangul scim-chewing 03:41 janimo you can post to the list if you wish with the packages and a brief description of why it's needed if not obvious 03:41 janimo ok, are these on ubuntu/kubuntu already? === nomed [n=nomed@host19-194.pool8254.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:41 freeflying no , due to the space issue 03:42 janimo is it ok if they go to ship and not installed by default? 03:42 nomed hi all 03:42 janimo I'd like to keep desktop default install small if possible 03:42 janimo hi nomed 03:42 Gloubiboulga hi here nomed 03:42 freeflying janimo: if these can be installed defaultly ,CJK users can use it directly 03:43 janimo ok 03:44 freeflying janimo: great! 03:44 janimo freeflying: so right now by default CJK users cannot type in native language on ubuntu/kubuntu becaus ethese ar enot on the CD? 03:44 janimo I see there are two chinese one korean and one japanese right? the four packages you mentioned 03:44 freeflying janimo: ya, guys need download the language support packages 03:45 janimo freeflying: oh, so what is the improvement in dapper regarding asian languages? === zell1983 [n=zell1983@host30-78.pool8258.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["L'] 03:45 janimo working just not fitting on CD? did they not even work ok so far? 03:45 freeflying janimo: guys needn't configure anymore 03:45 janimo oh, you needed to tweak X/fontconfig and such? 03:45 freeflying if they choose download language suppot package , everything is okey 03:46 freeflying janimo: needn't 03:46 janimo besides these which are input methods, is there anything missing right now from xubuntu default? 03:46 janimo fonts? 03:46 freeflying the are in desktop seeds 03:47 janimo ok I'll add these 4 packages to xubuntu-desktop, seems to be 4Mb total 03:47 freeflying janimo: if you have enough space , include language-pack-gnome-CJK would be better :) 03:48 janimo freeflying: there's no other reason for them not being on the ubuntu CD right? 03:48 janimo like quality issues ? 03:48 freeflying janimo: no others 03:48 janimo I guess not if they're in main 03:48 freeflying no === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:48 janimo freeflying: language-pack gnome ? 03:48 janimo that's mostly for gnome apps right? 03:48 janimo granted abiword is in there too and gaim 03:49 freeflying janimo: then what for xfce4's i18n ? 03:49 janimo freeflying: those are small enough (a few 100Kb per language) that are put directly in the base langpacks 03:49 janimo no more than 300K/lang 03:50 freeflying janimo: then language-support-CJk 03:50 janimo so if CHK have translated xfce they're in :) 03:50 janimo freeflying: sure 03:50 janimo till now I did not put in anything besides what's in ubuntu 03:50 janimo to keep the CD easily downloadable 03:50 freeflying janimo: with these , CJK user needn't download exrta package 03:50 janimo but I'll add many langpacks 03:50 freeflying that's great 03:50 janimo the top 10 languages' lang support seem to total 120-130 Mb 03:51 janimo that fits I think even with OOo on the CD 03:51 freeflying janimo: CJK is in top 10? 03:51 janimo well mandarin sure is :) 03:51 janimo top 1 I think :) 03:51 janimo but yes I fon;t recall the ubutu classification 03:51 janimo let me check === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-75-2-128-48.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:52 freeflying janimo: xubuntu has abiword ,why include OOo 03:52 janimo http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/xubuntu-dapper/ship 03:52 janimo freeflying: OOo is not installed just on the CD. since it fits 03:53 janimo I got the impression from a bengali translator that, besides OOo no free office is usable in indian langauges 03:53 janimo is that not the same for CJK? 03:53 freeflying janimo: as to me , xubuntu shall use light program like goffice instead of OOo 03:54 janimo freeflying: I agree that it's lighter and that's the default 03:54 janimo but does abiword support CJK/indic languages? 03:54 freeflying janimo: not too well 03:54 janimo so what do chinese users who prefer not to write in English do? :) 03:55 janimo they need OOo I guess 03:55 freeflying abiword can write in CJK 03:55 freeflying but not so fine as OOo dose 03:55 janimo most popular languages according to ubuntu classification: zh es bn hi ar xh pt ru ja de fr 03:55 janimo so chinese support will be on CD definitely 03:55 freeflying nice :) 03:56 janimo ok what do we have on our agenda today? 03:56 janimo not on the wiki of course since that's empty :) 03:57 nomed http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/xubuntu/xfce-setting-show.png <-- 03:57 Gloubiboulga nothing for me... === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-75-2-128-48.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 03:57 janimo nomed :) 03:57 nomed janimo: we'll need an xubuntu-icons-theme within artwork 03:57 nomed for sure 03:57 janimo what theme does tha tuse? 03:58 nomed there will be really few but needed anyway 03:58 janimo are those new icons made for xubuntu? 03:58 nomed yes 03:58 janimo can they be part of tango itself? 03:58 nomed not all of them but some 03:58 nomed no 03:58 janimo what is the reason for not? 03:58 nomed the xubuntu specific ones no 03:58 nomed just generic icons 03:59 janimo there is a sound icon in tango already and does not look like that (whistle) 03:59 nomed but i have still to talk to dobay about this 03:59 janimo what is the situation in current mcs-manager? 03:59 nomed dobey even 03:59 janimo where does it fallback to? 03:59 nomed orrible 03:59 ogra did you guys see that you are at place 4 on distrowatch ? 03:59 ogra http://distrowatch.com/index.php?dataspan=1 03:59 janimo yes, but more techinaclly? :) 03:59 freeflying janimo: dose xubntu has a network-con tool 03:59 nomed i'll write a mail to xfce-devel 03:59 ogra (for the 7 day stats) 03:59 janimo ogra, yeah somewhat under our expectations ;) 03:59 Gloubiboulga ogra, yep :) === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Apr 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 03 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 04 May 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu 04:00 ogra janimo, well, its hard to beat ubuntu :) 04:00 janimo nomed, writing to xfce devel would be really great 04:00 janimo ogra, ;) 04:00 nomed janimo: tecnically xfce-mcs-setting is the devil 04:00 janimo but really I think xubuntu is overhyped :) === janimo talks like a gentoo zealot 04:01 nomed it can use icons that don't exist 04:01 nomed :) 04:01 ogra janimo, it has buntu in its name, thats ebnough for a hype :) 04:01 janimo nomed, if upstrem could fix that code to use saner icon names which can be found in tango/icon-spec we'd be further ahead 04:01 janimo I'd prefer that instead of changing tango to some other theme at this point 04:01 janimo and possibly incur other breakage 04:02 janimo or even have poeple not like it 04:02 janimo ogra, and an X. Never underestimate the power of the letter X in marketing 04:02 nomed janimo: you do not need to change tango 04:02 janimo most of the reason why XMl is popular IMHO 04:02 ogra hehe 04:02 janimo nomed, so tango will be the fallbak? 04:02 nomed they need to fix that issue 04:03 janimo look in xubuntu first then fallback to tango? 04:03 nomed janimo: back to the beginning :) 04:03 janimo if so does that not mean less performance? 04:03 nomed xubuntu icons theme in xubuntu-artwork :) 04:03 nomed fallback --> tango 04:03 nomed anyway the dialog icons issue is still there 04:03 nomed as those icons are hardcoded 04:04 janimo nomed, ok please write to xfce-devel about this 04:04 nomed the only solution at the moment is to patch source 04:04 janimo I suppose they'd like to fix that too 04:04 janimo as they seem to use tango 04:04 nomed me too 04:04 janimo indeed the mcs manager is out of sync with the rest if I think about it 04:04 nomed i'll continue a thread that got 43 answers :) 04:04 janimo ok :) 04:04 nomed it was at a good point :) 04:04 janimo they seemed positive generally right? 04:04 nomed absolutely yes 04:05 janimo I am looking at desktop icons in the meantime 04:05 janimo launchers and removable media 04:05 janimo nomed, ok thanks.let's see what they say and then go on. 04:05 nomed i would see even hd .. not removable .. === strapal [n=strapal@dsl51B798CB.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 04:06 janimo nomed, I mean behaviour 04:06 janimo they do not automatically show up and things like that 04:06 nomed uhhh .. 04:06 nomed k 04:06 janimo in the meantime talk to dobey if it's possible to get some of these into tango itslef 04:06 nomed janimo: i'm sure there is a bug on that code 04:06 janimo makes our job easier long term 04:06 janimo nomed, yes there is 04:06 nomed janimo: yes it's possible 04:06 janimo but brian/benny don't havetoo much time to debug 04:06 nomed i have already the legacy xml file 04:07 janimo especially sine it seems to work for them 04:07 nomed ao it may depend on dbus 04:07 nomed s/ao/so 04:08 nomed ahh and tango upstreamer will include that patch as soon as i send it to him 04:08 nomed i'm just waiting a steady state :) 04:08 janimo great :) 04:08 janimo than daniel will upload it to ubuntu and we're better 04:09 nomed i think then some artist should play with xubuntu images 04:09 nomed they need to be all fixed 04:10 janimo which images? 04:10 janimo current artwork? 04:10 nomed wallpaper, usplash, logo and so on 04:10 janimo hmm do you not like jmak's work? 04:10 nomed they 're done but they've even small issues 04:11 janimo he is the single artist so far who actively participated 04:11 janimo since the beginning 04:11 nomed janimo: the usplash could be strongly improved 04:11 janimo nomed I agree but usplash looks ugly because of small res no? 04:11 nomed not really 04:11 janimo although ubuntu usplash is nicer 04:11 nomed it's while the artist convert the image to an idexed one 04:12 nomed it's possible to get a really better resolution 04:12 janimo aha 04:12 nomed i've seen images on 16c that were the same as the original one 04:12 janimo we may need to tell jmak how to actually test the usplash so he sees the result himself 04:12 nomed that depends on how the artist can use gimp inkscape and such apps === luzi_away is now known as luzi 04:13 luzi the problem with usplash is not resolution, it's the 16 colors! 04:13 nomed luzi yes 04:13 nomed but ex 04:13 nomed the usplash i checked had a color map with a lot of red and pink 04:13 nomed and i don't see red or pink in xubuntu usplash 04:14 nomed that means the palette could be optimized 04:14 nomed and consequentely the image resolution === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-82-72.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 04:14 nomed if you have 16 c .. 04:14 nomed but you use just 4 c from that palette ... 04:15 janimo nomed, please talk to jozsef or luzi about this and see if you can sort it out 04:15 janimo and when you're all satisfied I'll upload :) 04:15 nomed janimo: i wrote a mail 04:15 janimo ok 04:16 nomed but i need they contact me or just replay :) 04:16 nomed luzi if you're fine with it we can talk a bit at #xubuntu later 04:16 luzi ok 04:17 nomed luzi there is a small issue on the official xubuntu logo 04:17 nomed have u seen it .. 04:17 nomed ? 04:17 luzi what issue? 04:18 nomed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLogo 04:18 nomed take a look on the left part of that circle :) 04:18 nomed maybe it's me ... 04:18 mjg59 It looks like the "head" is offset from the "body" 04:19 luzi ok, i see it now! 04:19 luzi i'll fix it. 04:19 nomed then i was thinking that as xfdesktop supports color background 04:19 janimo anything else? 04:19 nomed the wallpaper could just be a trasparent layer .. 04:20 nomed luzi what do u think ? 04:20 nomed (as the smoke one ) 04:20 janimo Gloubiboulga: any plans regarding xfce uploads this week? 04:20 nomed if i' not wrong 04:20 janimo xfburn. thunar plugins? 04:21 nomed janimo: there is a new version of verve panel plugin 04:21 janimo nomed, I know 04:21 sladen nomed: you get 14 colours, which is good enough for a gradient (hence the kubuntu one is shades of blue and the ubuntu one is shades of brown/gold) 04:21 nomed but checking it i do not see any reason to upload it 04:21 Gloubiboulga janimo, xfburn is still broken, and I have no answer on Xfce bugzilla 04:21 janimo I kind of expect upstream to aply the xfrun dbus patch already so verve makes more sense 04:21 janimo Gloubiboulga: did you file abug on xfburn? 04:21 nomed ahh ok 04:21 Gloubiboulga janimo, yes 04:21 janimo in what way is broken? I used it to burn some isos this week 04:21 janimo better than graveman which crashes 04:22 Gloubiboulga janimo, if it's build from SVN it's ok, buit if I use make dist or make distcheck it FTBFS 04:22 janimo Gloubiboulga: oh I remember. autotools madness 04:22 Gloubiboulga yep 04:22 nomed sladen: i agree 04:22 Gloubiboulga I'll try to have a look at this 04:22 highvoltage ogra: are you saying that my old theme looks shitty? 04:23 Gloubiboulga janimo, screenshooter and media-tag plugins are ready 04:23 ogra highvoltage i'd never say that ! 04:23 highvoltage sorry, please ignore tha!!! 04:23 nomed the xubuntu png should just use better the color map 04:23 janimo Gloubiboulga: does screenshooter work? 04:24 Gloubiboulga janimo, yep, but there's an icon issue 04:24 janimo I ddi not check the last release if they improved on what i ported 04:24 janimo gnome-screenshot is used no? 04:24 Meyer_ todas 04:24 janimo that is in most icon themes 04:24 Gloubiboulga janimo, not in the Xfce one 04:25 Gloubiboulga I had to install the gnome icons package to see the plugin in the panel 04:25 nomed Gloubiboulga: there is gnome-screenshoter in Rdent 04:25 Gloubiboulga nomed, hm... I didn't see it 04:25 janimo I see s stock-screenshot 04:25 nomed find /usr/share/icons/Rodent/ | grep shoot 04:26 nomed applets-screenshooter.png sorry 04:26 nomed Gloubiboulga: anyway we can add the icon you need i guess 04:26 nomed with the name that 's on the desktop file 04:26 janimo hmm I explicitely changed that tpo gnome-screenshot back then 04:26 janimo I wonder why 04:27 janimo we shoulduse whatever name is in tango for screenshot 04:27 janimo that is: nothing 04:27 nomed janimo: we can even use the name that is desktop file and add it to xubuntu icons theme 04:27 luzi nomed: the logo issue is fixed. 04:28 nomed so you do not need to add any patch 04:28 nomed luzi thanks :) 04:28 luzi nomed: oops, i just saw that the bar is not right yet... 04:29 Gloubiboulga I'll check again 04:29 Gloubiboulga nomed, right, seen it :) 04:31 janimo Gloubiboulga: when they're ready put them online 04:31 janimo so I can look at them, and then you can upload :) 04:31 Gloubiboulga janimo, ok 04:34 Gloubiboulga janimo, do you want a package for the thunar archive plugin too ? 04:34 janimo sure 04:34 Gloubiboulga ok 04:34 janimo although we need to think where it would fit better 04:34 janimo single package which depends on fle roller for now? 04:35 janimo I guess since it does not work yet with xarchiver it cannot be part of thunar or xarchiver 04:35 Gloubiboulga I don't see what else we could do for the moment 04:35 Gloubiboulga yes 04:35 janimo we could sync xarchive from debian as it has cmd line ooptoins and try that 04:35 janimo anyway if xarchiver is bugged it'd be good to have that as a fallback in universe 04:35 Gloubiboulga true 04:36 janimo I'll file a sync requets (should have done it along with xarchiver) 04:36 janimo arrrgh. two projects trying to make two similar gtk only archivers and none of them being done yet :( 04:36 janimo so lets' at least have the thunar plugin in and test it with file roller 04:37 Gloubiboulga ok 04:37 janimo at least that works\ 04:37 janimo thanks\ 04:37 nomed janimo: the xarchiver devel contacted me few h ago 04:37 janimo nomed, one good news and a bad news? or soemthing like that ;) ? 04:38 nomed i was next to convince him to release something in the mean time .. 04:38 janimo but then he said no ? 04:38 nomed and he suddenly changed his mind 04:38 janimo well there are a few lessons learned for dapper+1 anyway 04:38 nomed anyway ... exactly 04:38 janimo not just the xarchiver one but some oethers too 04:38 janimo 'do not trust upstream' 04:38 janimo actually one lesson :) 04:39 nomed he was upset becouse of xarchiver is not in xubuntu yet 04:39 nomed eheh yep 04:39 janimo he was upset? 04:39 janimo well xarchiver is in ubuntu when it's in main 04:39 janimo which may be tdoay or next week depending on when colin has time to put it in 04:39 janimo but him being upset? 04:40 janimo how about making the thing work first? :) 04:40 janimo is that the original dev (colossus) or the new one (stefan)? 04:40 janimo I assume colossus. === strapal [n=strapal@dsl51B798CB.pool.t-online.hu] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] 04:40 janimo if so he should just release with a stable gui and cmd line options 04:41 janimo then wonder about how to optimize for archibves with 250K files in them which only exist in benchmarks 04:41 nomed janimo: colossus 04:41 janimo is he not the main dev now? 04:41 nomed that's exclty what i told him 04:41 nomed he "is" 04:42 janimo it would have been better if he developed alone and released 0.4 in time imho 04:42 janimo it looked like it was right on track 04:43 nomed yes 04:43 nomed i dunno why he forgot he was the devel :) 04:43 nomed and the other guy should just help him ... 04:45 janimo probbaly has no time 04:45 janimo which is understandable 04:46 janimo but anyweay if someone wants to make our release, he needs to take freeze dates into account 04:46 janimo at least a bit 04:46 janimo it's ready when it's ready is a nice quote but won't help in our case 04:47 nomed janimo: i guess the devels have some script to add that to emails :) 04:48 janimo :) 04:49 nomed could we consider the meeting over ? 04:49 luzi i was going to ask about the translation of the desktop guide 04:49 luzi i feel it's not quite ready yet. 04:50 janimo yes I thin kit can be over antie now 04:50 janimo anytime 04:50 janimo luzi, ah yes 04:50 janimo there are no parts which are ready at all? 04:51 janimo chapters which are more or less like in ubuntu desktop guide 04:51 luzi the 'guided tour' is nearing completion, the other ones not quite yet. 04:51 janimo where I assume translations could be copied too ;) 04:51 janimo luzi, ok whenever you're reday 04:51 luzi what is the latest it should be ready? 04:52 janimo we don;t have a date since we did not have a strict schedule as ubuntu 04:52 janimo so all I can say ASAP :) 04:52 luzi ok :) 04:52 janimo but considering that the guide is smaller than ubuntu's 04:52 janimo and parts can be taken from there by translators do not stay up at night or something 04:52 janimo only if you like that :) 04:53 janimo but whenever you feel some parts are ready ping xubuntu and the doc list so people can start on it 04:53 luzi i like to work at night, actually :o) 04:53 luzi ok, i'll do that. 04:53 janimo I expect the guide can be translated on a new language in 2 days by a person no? 04:53 luzi yeah, i think so. 04:53 janimo s/on/in/ 04:53 janimo so there is time actually 04:54 janimo but the sooner it;'s done the sooner users read it and give feedback 04:54 janimo should I upload the guide as is now? 04:54 janimo whenever you think there' new upload worthy material ping me 04:54 janimo either mail or the list 04:55 luzi ok, i think we'll wait another week or so. 04:55 luzi janimo, what are we going to do about the 'help' buttons in the gui parts of xubuntu-system-tools? 04:55 janimo luzi, good question 04:56 luzi it would be great to have it open the guide in a browser 04:56 janimo I though about hiding them 04:56 janimo would that be bad? 04:56 nomed janimo: exo-open like ? 04:56 janimo if not whip up a smal dialog 04:56 nomed if there is html doc i think it could shows up that .. 04:56 nomed no ? 04:56 janimo we cannot depend on yelp, and the docs are not plain html 04:56 nomed ohhh 04:56 janimo I think it is yelp markup 04:56 janimo html would be nice 04:57 nomed janimo: that's strange 04:57 nomed as all the xfce help stuff is in html 04:57 janimo first I'd like to see xubuntu-system tool sin main though 04:57 nomed ahh wait 04:57 janimo got to find a clean way to make multi builds from the g-s-t package 04:57 nomed xubuntu-system-tool is in yelp markup ? 04:58 janimo well gnome-system-tools docs are 04:58 janimo end in .xml anyway 04:58 nomed janimo: i guess it could be considered somehow esential 04:58 janimo /usr/share/gnome/help/network-admin/es/network-admin.xml 04:58 janimo the help? 04:58 nomed ubiquity suggests that 04:58 nomed no xubuntu-system-tools 04:58 janimo well sure it;'s essential 04:59 janimo but not because of ubi since it only recommends it 04:59 janimo but so that people can config the network interface without the ocmmand line 04:59 janimo mostly, there are other nice tools 04:59 janimo so if we have them in and no help I am still happy 05:00 nomed that's sure 05:00 luzi i think we should a) have it open the correct section of the xubuntu desktop guide in a browser b) if not possible , hide buttons 05:01 nomed or even hide it if yelp is not installed (b.a ) :) 05:02 janimo Gloubiboulga: care to answer to the kb layout mail? 05:02 janimo by JMak 05:02 Gloubiboulga janimo, ok 05:02 janimo ok , once we have those tools on the CD I'll do a) or b) 05:02 luzi great
MeetingLogs/Xubuntu_2006-04-26 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:31:44 by localhost)