Ubuntu Wiki

Jan 20 10:57:00 *       Now talking on #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 10:57:00 *       Topic for #ubuntu-meeting is: Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 31 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu
Jan 20 10:57:00 *       Topic for #ubuntu-meeting set by Ubugtu at Sat Jan 20 10:48:44 2007
Jan 20 10:58:04 <somerville32>  Hello Boys and Girls
Jan 20 10:58:37 *       vinze (n=vtunru@adsl-dc-22455.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 10:58:48 <vinze> Started yet?
Jan 20 10:59:04 <somerville32>  We'll be starting any minute now :)
Jan 20 10:59:19 <vinze> K great
Jan 20 10:59:52 *       somerville32 just got home from a meeting @ work and needs to change into something more casual. :)
Jan 20 10:59:58 <lotusleaf>     vinze: KDE is great ;P
Jan 20 11:00:11 <vinze> Yuk no :P
Jan 20 11:00:39 *       fijam (n=fijam@unaffiliated/fijam) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:01:24 *       gpocentek (n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:02:16 *       somerville32 updates the Agenda last minute.
Jan 20 11:02:28 *       dennda (n=dennda@p57A844B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:02:29 *       licio (n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:02:30 *       PuMpErNiCkLe (n=pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:02:42 <fijam> join #xubuntu
Jan 20 11:02:43 *       eteran (i=etefreen@muhq-owns.de) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:05:17 *       ogra has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Jan 20 11:05:23 *       Jmak (n=mak@h66-201-246-34.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:06:08 *       ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:06:22 *       Ppjet6 (n=ppjet6@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-130-254.adsl.proxad.net) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:06:51 <somerville32>  Alrighty.
Jan 20 11:07:02 *       mc44 (n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:07:03 <somerville32>  I guess can start now by introducing ourselves.
Jan 20 11:07:05 *       ash211 (n=andrew@user-1121oil.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:07:07 <vinze> OK
Jan 20 11:07:17 *       somerville32 is Cody Somerville.
Jan 20 11:07:52 *       vinze is Vincent Tunru
Jan 20 11:08:27 <gpocentek>     hello
Jan 20 11:08:35 <somerville32>  Hi
Jan 20 11:08:38 <gpocentek>      /me is g. pocentek :)
Jan 20 11:08:49 <vinze> Surprise :D
Jan 20 11:09:34 <gpocentek>     somerville32: would you agree to lead this meeting?
Jan 20 11:09:38 *       PuMpErNiCkLe is the audience
Jan 20 11:09:40 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Sure. :)
Jan 20 11:09:44 <gpocentek>     thanks
Jan 20 11:10:07 <somerville32>  The agenda for this meeting is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
Jan 20 11:10:32 *       j_ack (n=rudi@p508D9F11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:10:32 <vinze> So we're with three?
Jan 20 11:10:39 <somerville32>  We'll work through the items listed, discuss, make notes, and all that good stuff
Jan 20 11:10:44 <Jmak>  Jmak: ok
Jan 20 11:11:16 <somerville32>  We'll start from the bottom this time since we started at the top last time
Jan 20 11:11:25 <somerville32>  Team Building - How can we help contributors to the Xubuntu project become Ubuntu members, devs, and core-devs? How can we build community? Prod ubuntu-qa/ubuntu-bugs and ubuntu-motu to host some classroom lectures to help educate individuals so that they can get involved with bug triage and packaging for Ubuntu/Xubuntu? Maybe team more senior contributors with people interested in getting involved (ie. mentorship)? Organize so
Jan 20 11:11:25 <somerville32>  me sort of Xubuntu hug day? Brainstorm.
Jan 20 11:11:25 <vinze> Keeping it fair ;)
Jan 20 11:11:45 <vinze> Hug day.. That would be nice :P
Jan 20 11:11:58 <gpocentek>     do we really need hug days?
Jan 20 11:12:08 <gpocentek>     for Xubuntu that is
Jan 20 11:12:17 <gpocentek>     there's not so many bugs open
Jan 20 11:12:30 <somerville32>  gpocentek, I think we should tie in with the normal bug days
Jan 20 11:12:36 <somerville32>  Maybe encourage Xubuntu users to take part
Jan 20 11:12:37 <gpocentek>     somerville32: agreed
Jan 20 11:12:52 <vinze> Me too
Jan 20 11:13:39 <somerville32>  There are lots of Xubuntu users who enjoy giving back to the project
Jan 20 11:13:56 <somerville32>  I think making them aware of these opportunities would be a Good Thing.
Jan 20 11:14:03 *       cjwatson has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
Jan 20 11:14:19 <vinze> And how are we going to do that?
Jan 20 11:14:26 <vinze> I guess at least a message to the mailinglist
Jan 20 11:14:38 <vinze> Or perhaps that's already enough
Jan 20 11:14:54 <gpocentek>     adding an item to the bug days wiki page/announces should not be too hard
Jan 20 11:15:05 <Ma1kel>        or on the ubuntu forums?
Jan 20 11:15:12 <vinze> That too perhaps
Jan 20 11:15:26 <vinze> But I think most people willing to contribute will already be on xubuntu-devel don't you think so?
Jan 20 11:15:36 <somerville32>  Furthermore, when you've got a whole bunch of people at these events you already know, I think it would make it more enjoyable and easier to get involved.
Jan 20 11:15:39 *       BrendanM (n=mccollam@hor-gold95.hor.ucl.ac.uk) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:15:45 <somerville32>  So it would be good for us to "make a presence".
Jan 20 11:15:58 <Ma1kel>        vinze, there are more ways to contribute
Jan 20 11:16:20 <vinze> Ma1kel: yeah, but you can sign up for xubuntu-devel for all those things can't you?
Jan 20 11:16:44 <vinze> But of course, posting a message to the forums is not problem at all :D
Jan 20 11:16:53 <Ma1kel>        true but there are people that dont know that the it exists
Jan 20 11:17:03 <Ma1kel>        -the
Jan 20 11:17:19 <vinze> Also people that are looking to contribute?
Jan 20 11:17:30 <somerville32>  ie. Johny and Timmy, both Xubuntu users who like to contribute to bug hug days, encourage there fellow Xubuntu user Jill to come help out. Jill agrees because she feels comfortable knowing that she'll have people she knows there to help her get started and to chat to at the same time.
Jan 20 11:17:57 <somerville32>  Malkel: True.
Jan 20 11:18:48 <somerville32>  So, how do we promote this to Xubuntu users without seeming like we're doing our own thing?
Jan 20 11:19:08 <vinze> Doing our own thing? You mean too complicated or something
Jan 20 11:19:09 <vinze> *?
Jan 20 11:19:49 <Ma1kel>        Hmmm.
Jan 20 11:19:53 <somerville32>  Well, we want to tie in with existing Ubuntu infrastructure and teams
Jan 20 11:20:01 <somerville32>  We don't want to waste efforts re-inventing the wheel
Jan 20 11:20:28 <vinze> So we should make it accessible to Xubuntu users
Jan 20 11:20:35 <somerville32>  Right
Jan 20 11:20:46 <Ma1kel>        What would you like the existing infrastructure to do? Give a list.
Jan 20 11:20:46 <somerville32>  But the question is "How do we do it most effectively?"
Jan 20 11:21:15 <vinze> Well, I have no experience with this so I have no idea :(
Jan 20 11:21:55 *       Rinchen (n=Rinchen@ubuntu/member/rinchen) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:22:08 <somerville32>  I think that we could use the forums, wiki, website, and the irc channel
Jan 20 11:22:43 <Ma1kel>        Start an Xubuntu forum?
Jan 20 11:22:47 <vinze> I think of those the wiki and website are most important
Jan 20 11:22:56 <somerville32>  Malkel: I don't think that is required.
Jan 20 11:23:00 <vinze> Me neither
Jan 20 11:23:04 <somerville32>  Malkel: The main Ubuntu forums serve us rather nicely.
Jan 20 11:23:20 <somerville32>  I think we need to spark the "by mouth" advertising.
Jan 20 11:23:28 <somerville32>  We ourselves need to get excited by contributing to Xubuntu
Jan 20 11:23:28 <vinze> I think that would be best
Jan 20 11:23:37 <vinze> But I have no idea how
Jan 20 11:24:11 <somerville32>  By getting excited ourselves, of course :)
Jan 20 11:24:15 <Ma1kel>        Some contests?
Jan 20 11:24:19 <vinze> Yeah I get that :P
Jan 20 11:24:21 <somerville32>  If people see how we're contributing and that we're excited
Jan 20 11:24:23 <Ma1kel>        For artwork or something?
Jan 20 11:24:24 <vinze> But how to get involved
Jan 20 11:24:25 <TheSheep>      start talking about it on channels -- saying what bugs you triage, asking about details
Jan 20 11:24:30 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 11:24:55 <vinze> But if you have no experience programming in anything higher than PHP?
Jan 20 11:25:05 <somerville32>  vinze: You don't need to know how to program to get involved.
Jan 20 11:25:11 <TheSheep>      it will also teach users some rules on taking care of bugs
Jan 20 11:25:15 <Ma1kel>        Artwork and translation, spreading the word?
Jan 20 11:25:18 <somerville32>  Right
Jan 20 11:25:27 <somerville32>  There are TONS of stuff listed on http://xubuntu.org/devel
Jan 20 11:25:44 <TheSheep>      assisting with reporting bugs is important too
Jan 20 11:25:57 <somerville32>  Yup
Jan 20 11:26:20 <somerville32>  1. Get excited about contributing Xubuntu
Jan 20 11:26:25 <TheSheep>      like, you spent some time with the user to see what's wrong, and in the end yuo say "ok, now report this bug" :)
Jan 20 11:26:29 <vinze> Translation is also something: isn't that more upstream work? I've been translating Xfce but not in Launchpad
Jan 20 11:26:29 <somerville32>  2. Start talking about how we contribute to Xubuntu and how other people can too
Jan 20 11:27:10 <Ma1kel>        https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuArtwork ?
Jan 20 11:27:40 <somerville32>  Malkel, vinze: In your opinions, how can we make it easier for people to get involved?
Jan 20 11:27:57 Ma1kel mbamford mc44 mdz Mez Mithrandir mr_pouit 
Jan 20 11:27:58 Ma1kel mbamford mc44 mdz Mez Mithrandir mr_pouit 
Jan 20 11:28:04 <somerville32>  Ma1kel, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork <-- Xubuntu artwork page.
Jan 20 11:28:12 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Any insight?
Jan 20 11:28:22 <Ma1kel>        Start own forum, announce things and contests
Jan 20 11:28:46 <vinze> There's an unofficial Xubuntu forum that's not very popular
Jan 20 11:29:07 <Ma1kel>        link to it from main site and make it offical?
Jan 20 11:29:10 <TheSheep>      an empty forum is hardly encouraging
Jan 20 11:29:27 <Ma1kel>        a full forum is
Jan 20 11:29:39 *       Ppjet6 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Jan 20 11:29:49 <vinze> But linking to it won't suddenly make it popular
Jan 20 11:30:06 <somerville32>  Whats wrong with the current Ubuntu forums?
Jan 20 11:30:34 <Ma1kel>        it is too much ofcused on Ubuntu
Jan 20 11:31:12 <somerville32>  Ma1kel, There are tons of Xubuntu users on the Ubuntu forums though
Jan 20 11:31:35 <Ma1kel>        yes
Jan 20 11:31:38 <gpocentek>     (phonecall, sorry)
Jan 20 11:31:46 <vinze> Well, shall we just continue on "Team Building"?
Jan 20 11:31:53 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 11:32:05 <somerville32>  I'd like to report that the new xubuntu-users mailing list is a huge success.
Jan 20 11:32:11 <vinze> Indeed
Jan 20 11:32:27 <vinze> And let's hope it'll be even more so when Feisty is released
Jan 20 11:33:44 <somerville32>  Since it's conception the other week, we've had 81 individuals subscribe
Jan 20 11:33:58 <vinze> How many did we have for xubuntu-devel?
Jan 20 11:34:13 *       somerville32 has no idea.
Jan 20 11:34:21 <vinze> Too bad
Jan 20 11:35:13 <somerville32>  So
Jan 20 11:35:33 <vinze> Conclusion: we should do more mouth-to-mouthing or whatever-it's-called
Jan 20 11:35:34 <somerville32>  As to getting people involved, I'll see about poking ubuntu-qa and ubuntu-motu to hold some classroom lectures
Jan 20 11:35:44 <vinze> Great
Jan 20 11:35:45 <somerville32>  and then I'll announce it on the mailing list
Jan 20 11:36:01 <somerville32>  Then it'll be up to all of us to spread the word to our fellow Xubuntu users
Jan 20 11:36:06 <vinze> Perhaps we should make clearer exactly *what* is high priority at the moment
Jan 20 11:36:43 <somerville32>  vinze: High priority out of what?
Jan 20 11:37:17 <vinze> Of jobs to be done of Xubuntu
Jan 20 11:37:22 <TheSheep>      perhaps we should decide what is there to do first :)
Jan 20 11:37:29 <somerville32>  hehe
Jan 20 11:37:32 <vinze> That's what I mean ;)
Jan 20 11:38:19 <somerville32>  Well, http://xubuntu.org/devel has a rather comprehensive list
Jan 20 11:38:29 <somerville32>  And they're all important
Jan 20 11:38:32 <vinze> But all of "general things to do"
Jan 20 11:38:43 <somerville32>  Well, one thing that comes to mind is Documentation
Jan 20 11:38:46 <vinze> Perhaps if we focus on a specific thing we can get more things done?
Jan 20 11:38:48 <vinze> For example
Jan 20 11:38:57 <somerville32>  Documentation needs a lot of work
Jan 20 11:39:26 <vinze> Then we could say "is someone willing to write some documentation on how this or that app works"?
Jan 20 11:39:34 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 11:39:38 <somerville32>  Interesting idea
Jan 20 11:39:44 <vinze> I think that produce more
Jan 20 11:40:14 <somerville32>  Well, we can't waste too much time holding people's hands either. Sometimes people need to take initiative to ask.
Jan 20 11:40:27 <somerville32>  However, I think making up a nice todo list for the different teams would be a Good Idea.
Jan 20 11:40:37 <vinze> Yeah I think so too
Jan 20 11:41:06 <somerville32>  We can also see about getting some of the more senior contributors to help out the ones showing interest
Jan 20 11:41:37 <vinze> But what my problem with documentation is is that you can't just do some documentation and send it somewhere, you have to makes patches or whatnot
Jan 20 11:41:51 <somerville32>  vinze: Making patches is easy though :)
Jan 20 11:42:40 <vinze> Well, perhaps a wiki page or something on how to?
Jan 20 11:42:47 <vinze> Because I don't know how, even if it is very easy
Jan 20 11:43:53 <somerville32>  There already is a wiki page.
Jan 20 11:43:59 <vinze> OK, where?
Jan 20 11:44:06 <somerville32>  Maybe we can work on linking some of those documents from the Xubuntu wiki pages
Jan 20 11:44:20 <vinze> Yeah and on xubuntu.org/devel
Jan 20 11:44:32 <vinze> To those page
Jan 20 11:44:32 *       Ppjet6 (n=ppjet6@81.56.130.254) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:44:34 <vinze> *pages
Jan 20 11:44:59 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 11:45:02 <somerville32>  Good idea
Jan 20 11:45:39 <somerville32>  Any other points for Team Building?
Jan 20 11:45:45 *       levinas (n=abr@lit75-3-82-239-103-161.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:45:50 <vinze> Nope
Jan 20 11:46:11 <vinze> Oh wait, could you tell me the wiki page, then I'll bookmark it :D
Jan 20 11:46:22 <vinze> And perhaps I can start linking after I finish my essays ;)
Jan 20 11:47:14 *       Mez has quit (Connection timed out)
Jan 20 11:47:43 <somerville32>  ok
Jan 20 11:47:44 <somerville32>  one sec
Jan 20 11:48:06 *       Mez (n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:48:49 <somerville32>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted
Jan 20 11:49:05 <vinze> K thanks
Jan 20 11:49:19 <somerville32>  and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contribute
Jan 20 11:50:03 <somerville32>  So I guess we can move onto the next topic for today
Jan 20 11:50:04 <somerville32>  Artwork
Jan 20 11:50:10 <somerville32>  Jmak, :)
Jan 20 11:50:11 <vinze> Yeah
Jan 20 11:50:21 <vinze> *Very controversial* ;)
Jan 20 11:51:03 <somerville32>  Well, certainly opinionated for sure
Jan 20 11:51:56 <Jmak>  I am here
Jan 20 11:52:08 <somerville32>  Jmak: Could you give us an update on the artwork? :)
Jan 20 11:52:25 <TheSheep>      Jmak: I wanted to tell you about the icon theme cache...
Jan 20 11:52:37 <Jmak>  We need to tackle the icons
Jan 20 11:52:42 <Jmak>  Ok
Jan 20 11:53:35 <Jmak>  TheSheep: Whats that
Jan 20 11:53:36 <TheSheep>      Jmak: basically, if you want to play with icons in some theme, remove the icon-theme.cache file from it first, or you won't see the changes
Jan 20 11:53:49 <TheSheep>      Jmak: I'm not sure how you regenerate that cache though
Jan 20 11:54:12 <TheSheep>      Jmak: it was something I stumbled upon when trying to fix the sound control icon in breezy
Jan 20 11:54:32 <Jmak>  Thanks for the tip
Jan 20 11:55:21 <fijam> If I could add something to the documentation discussion... just a quick remark, may I?
Jan 20 11:55:31 <vinze> Always :D
Jan 20 11:55:44 <somerville32>  Sure :)
Jan 20 11:56:15 <fijam> I think that special attention should be focused on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
Jan 20 11:56:43 <Jmak>  But regarding the icons Jari told me that there will be major changes in feisty soon, so lets wait till those changes will materialize
Jan 20 11:56:45 <fijam> as we don't want xubuntu to fall behind, do we?
Jan 20 11:56:49 *       lmanul has quit ("Ex-Chat")
Jan 20 11:57:02 <vinze> fijam: Indeed
Jan 20 11:57:10 <vinze> Jmak: Sure
Jan 20 11:57:15 <Ma1kel>        "The DocumentationTeam is currently working on developing new and improving existing documentation for the release of Ubuntu 6.10 (EdgyEft) in October 2006."
Jan 20 11:57:25 <somerville32>  fijam, Thats the only documentation to focus on right now - the Desktop Guide and the wiki.
Jan 20 11:57:40 <somerville32>  And we're already way way way behind
Jan 20 11:57:43 <somerville32>  We need more contributors
Jan 20 11:57:44 *       Ubugtu has changed the topic to: Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jan 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 24 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 31 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
Jan 20 11:58:00 <vinze> I'll see if I can do some catching up
Jan 20 11:58:10 <vinze> But I also have another project ;)
Jan 20 11:58:16 <somerville32>  There is a specification on the wiki
Jan 20 11:58:23 *       semi-fly (n=public@c-68-42-205-204.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 11:59:02 <fijam> ok
Jan 20 11:59:10 <Jmak>  Is evrybody happy with the tango icon theme?
Jan 20 11:59:28 <somerville32>  fijam, vinze: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Feisty/DesktopGuide-feisty
Jan 20 11:59:40 <somerville32>  Jmak: At this time, I enjoy the tango theme, yes.
Jan 20 11:59:51 <TheSheep>      Jmak: I'm happy with it :)
Jan 20 11:59:54 <vinze> For now yes
Jan 20 12:01:03 <Jmak>  In my view it is pretty dull
Jan 20 12:01:09 <vinze> But complete
Jan 20 12:01:15 <TheSheep>      I prefer the term 'functional' :)
Jan 20 12:01:16 <somerville32>  I think it is complete and professional looking
Jan 20 12:01:28 <vinze> Functional, whatever you wish :D
Jan 20 12:01:44 <TheSheep>      vinze: I was thinking about the 'dull'
Jan 20 12:02:09 <vinze> Ah, right...
Jan 20 12:02:28 <somerville32>  Jmak: Is anyone else contributing to the artwork besides yourself?
Jan 20 12:02:29 <vinze> "Dull" and "functional" are about equal to me ;)
Jan 20 12:02:37 <TheSheep>      Jmak: do you have a "big picture" for the theme?
Jan 20 12:02:57 <Jmak>  What theme, the icon theme?
Jan 20 12:03:06 <TheSheep>      Jmak: no, the whole theme of xubuntu
Jan 20 12:03:11 <TheSheep>      Jmak: what direction to go?
Jan 20 12:03:35 *       doko_ is now known as doko
Jan 20 12:03:42 <TheSheep>      Jmak: should it look cheap or expensive, simple or comlex, cold or warm, etc.
Jan 20 12:03:47 <Ma1kel>        more intresting looking, the normal theme is too dull, people like to change the theme immetdialy
Jan 20 12:03:57 <TheSheep>      Ma1kel: that's good
Jan 20 12:04:25 <vinze> Ma1kel: The problem with that is that you'll get a theme that annoys some people
Jan 20 12:04:31 <Ma1kel>        true
Jan 20 12:04:40 <vinze> That's the advantage of Clearlooks: it does not annoy, even if it is dull
Jan 20 12:04:48 <vinze> Or Tango or whatever
Jan 20 12:04:49 <somerville32>  Personally, I prefer a professional appeal for default
Jan 20 12:04:58 <Ma1kel>        Me too.
Jan 20 12:04:59 <vinze> Like Clearlooks?
Jan 20 12:05:03 <somerville32>  Then people can make all the crazy customizations they want
Jan 20 12:05:13 <somerville32>  But first impressions are important
Jan 20 12:05:15 <vinze> Yeah indeed
Jan 20 12:05:19 <TheSheep>      I think that a defult theme has 2 functions:  be usable for when you don't have time to customize it, and look good for screenshots and marketing
Jan 20 12:05:25 <Jmak>  My idea was to continue the glossy feel
Jan 20 12:05:33 <vinze> So we want to make a "decent" impression
Jan 20 12:05:33 <somerville32>  And so we need to have a theme that appeals to the widest variety of users
Jan 20 12:05:37 <vinze> I liked the glossy feel
Jan 20 12:05:38 <Ma1kel>        glossy feels are cool
Jan 20 12:05:46 <TheSheep>      even cold
Jan 20 12:06:05 <TheSheep>      nothing against glossy, of course
Jan 20 12:06:13 <somerville32>  The glossy direction is good but we need to make sure not to over do it
Jan 20 12:06:16 <somerville32>  We need to be tactful
Jan 20 12:06:27 <TheSheep>      Jmak: sharp or soft?
Jan 20 12:06:53 <Jmak>  I prefer simple
Jan 20 12:07:31 <Jmak>  As opposed to the more flashy fedora artworks
Jan 20 12:07:35 <Ma1kel>        maybe get some opinions from the forums? Get some artwork on the forums and ask people what they think about it? Could help getting people contribute.
Jan 20 12:07:45 <vinze> Ma1kel: Good idewa
Jan 20 12:07:47 <vinze> *idea
Jan 20 12:07:54 <somerville32>  We can't just vote on small bits and pieces though
Jan 20 12:07:58 <somerville32>  We need to see the overall picture
Jan 20 12:07:59 <TheSheep>      I think that once working, there should be no opinions.
Jan 20 12:08:14 <vinze> Perhaps first produce something, then allow comments?
Jan 20 12:08:45 <TheSheep>      1. collect opinions, get the idea, 2. work, ignore feedback on irrelevant details, 3. present the (almost) finished product, repeat
Jan 20 12:08:57 <vinze> Agreed
Jan 20 12:09:05 <TheSheep>      I was looking at the "start button" rant
Jan 20 12:09:11 <TheSheep>      it's totally meaningless
Jan 20 12:09:12 <vinze> *hint*
Jan 20 12:09:13 <Ma1kel>        WHERES MY START BUTTON
Jan 20 12:09:13 <Jmak>  True, but in my view artworks are not like code everyone chips in and at the end we put it together.
Jan 20 12:09:34 <somerville32>  Jmak: But what about that article you wrote?
Jan 20 12:09:46 <somerville32>  In it you said that that model doesn't work
Jan 20 12:09:51 <TheSheep>      Jmak: you're the director, you must not allow everyone to butt in :)
Jan 20 12:10:11 <Jmak>  I like the button idea because from the usability point of view it make sense
Jan 20 12:10:19 <TheSheep>      Jmak: stand by your decissions
Jan 20 12:10:45 *       kalikiana (n=kalikian@xdsl-84-44-154-241.netcologne.de) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:10:45 <TheSheep>      Jmak: btw, I think the button can be made as a gtk theme thing
Jan 20 12:10:48 *       j_ack has quit ("Ex-Chat")
Jan 20 12:11:13 <Jmak>  With that I am not familiar
Jan 20 12:11:30 <Jmak>  How do you mean gtk?
Jan 20 12:11:31 <vinze> So, artwork will just be produced, then accept comments and see what should be improved?
Jan 20 12:11:45 <somerville32>  Jmak: Maybe you should encourage other people to get involved?
Jan 20 12:12:05 <Ma1kel>        well, get some comments WHILE working on it, to help you model it
Jan 20 12:12:16 <TheSheep>      vinze: you cannot tweak this kind of things much -- it's all interconnected and complete
Jan 20 12:12:26 <vinze> Ma1kel: But without starting discussions
Jan 20 12:12:31 <Jmak>  Sure, anyone can do artworks
Jan 20 12:12:38 <vinze> TheSheep: What do you mean?
Jan 20 12:12:52 <Ma1kel>        ^
Jan 20 12:12:54 <TheSheep>      vinze: it's like telling Da Vinci to redo that smile
Jan 20 12:13:00 <somerville32>  Jmak, Maybe you could spice up the artwork wiki pages on *how* to get involved?
Jan 20 12:13:02 <vinze> AH, like that
Jan 20 12:13:21 <Jmak>  Ok. I will do that
Jan 20 12:13:22 <TheSheep>      Jmak: for example, which icons need to be drawn
Jan 20 12:13:52 <fijam> that would be useful
Jan 20 12:14:10 <Jmak>  For instance in the application menu we have at least 6 missing icons, not very professional
Jan 20 12:14:29 <TheSheep>      Jmak: most of them are in tango, just miss the links
Jan 20 12:14:42 <somerville32>  Jmak; You should file bugs and attach an icon and someone like gpocentek or myself can upload it.
Jan 20 12:14:53 <TheSheep>      Jmak: same with other icon themes -- they'd work with xubntu fine, if not the missing links
Jan 20 12:15:52 <Jmak>  Ok jary told me that there will be changes soon in feisty so I wait with the icons for the time being
Jan 20 12:16:17 <TheSheep>      Jmak: so, what other things are there to do that can be distributed work?
Jan 20 12:17:12 *       gnomefreak has quit ("Lost terminal")
Jan 20 12:17:31 *       cjwatson (n=cjwatson@82-69-40-219.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:17:31 <Jmak>  I think no much unless someone wants to redo the entire desktop concept
Jan 20 12:18:06 <vinze> So on to the Documentation issue?
Jan 20 12:18:09 <TheSheep>      Jmak: I made another blue murrina theme, based on the MurrinaHuman2, if you're interested
Jan 20 12:18:43 <Jmak>  Sure
Jan 20 12:18:52 *       gnomefreak (n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:19:11 <Jmak>  Make a wiki and upload the pieces
Jan 20 12:19:35 <somerville32>  Btw
Jan 20 12:19:48 <somerville32>  the Murrina theme engine was uploaded the other week to Universe
Jan 20 12:20:11 <Jmak>  It sould be the default theme for feisty
Jan 20 12:20:31 <Jmak>  It comes with a nice configurator that not even gnome has
Jan 20 12:20:32 <somerville32>  Also, I'd like to see an improvement to the startup splash
Jan 20 12:20:45 <vinze> GTK themes are something that can be voted on IMHO
Jan 20 12:21:00 <kalikiana>     The splash needs text :)
Jan 20 12:21:08 <Jmak>  You mean the usplash?
Jan 20 12:21:12 <kalikiana>     yep
Jan 20 12:21:17 <somerville32>  Not the usplash
Jan 20 12:21:19 <somerville32>  the login splash
Jan 20 12:21:22 <somerville32>  After you authenticate
Jan 20 12:21:30 <kalikiana>     oh
Jan 20 12:21:33 <somerville32>  It is current the mouse in the wheel
Jan 20 12:21:35 <somerville32>  Which is cool
Jan 20 12:21:40 <somerville32>  but it just on a white background
Jan 20 12:21:42 <somerville32>  Kind of blah
Jan 20 12:21:47 <kalikiana>     What would you do about it?
Jan 20 12:21:56 <vinze> But perhaps it will get too slow...
Jan 20 12:21:59 <TheSheep>      use the same background as gdm and backdrop
Jan 20 12:22:07 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 12:22:10 <gpocentek>     somerville32: it's currently nothing
Jan 20 12:22:13 *       kalikiana agrees
Jan 20 12:22:24 <somerville32>  gpocentek, What is currently nothing?
Jan 20 12:22:35 *       BuffaloSoldier (n=integral@ubuntu/member/BuffaloSoldier) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:22:36 <vinze> The splash
Jan 20 12:22:38 <Jmak>  You are talkin about the logo?
Jan 20 12:22:44 <gpocentek>     somerville32: there's no splash during Xfce startup
Jan 20 12:22:49 *       crimsun (n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:22:57 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Since when?
Jan 20 12:23:07 <crimsun>       (hi all, apologies for tardiness, was in another meeting)
Jan 20 12:23:08 <gpocentek>     somerville32: since edgy IIRC
Jan 20 12:23:13 <gpocentek>     hello crimsun
Jan 20 12:23:25 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Well, then I must have carry over from Dapper
Jan 20 12:23:31 <gpocentek>     somerville32: the splash slow down things on lowest machines, that's why we removed it
Jan 20 12:23:41 *       Hansin321 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Jan 20 12:23:45 <somerville32>  But it is possible to re-enable it?
Jan 20 12:23:48 <gpocentek>     somerville32: yep, it's configured in your HOME I guess
Jan 20 12:23:54 <gpocentek>     somerville32: sure
Jan 20 12:23:54 <TheSheep>      I had a smart splashscreen setup some time ago -- it made a screenshot when logging out, and displayed it as the splash
Jan 20 12:23:55 <somerville32>  I see a MCS module
Jan 20 12:24:19 <vinze> TheSheep: that's cool :D But annoying ;_
Jan 20 12:24:37 <somerville32>  Either way, there really isn't a good login splash available. So we should make one available.
Jan 20 12:24:37 <TheSheep>      vinze: it makes the system seem faster :)
Jan 20 12:24:58 <gpocentek>     the running mouse *is* good
Jan 20 12:25:00 <TheSheep>      somerville32: balous is pretty good if you put a nice picture in it
Jan 20 12:25:03 <vinze> TheSheep: Does it?
Jan 20 12:25:18 <somerville32>  gpocentek, I like it too
Jan 20 12:25:22 <Jmak>  I made some animation splash for dapper but jani said we need no splash
Jan 20 12:25:24 <vinze> TheSheep: Startup is already almost-instantly for me when I turn Beryl off
Jan 20 12:25:26 <somerville32>  gpocentek, But I think it can be improved.
Jan 20 12:26:02 <TheSheep>      vinze: before you grab the mouse, the splash screen will already disappear -- but you have additional several seconds of thinking what to do :)
Jan 20 12:26:11 <crimsun>       Jmak: I tend to agree with Jani that a splash only serves really to "hide" the slowdown
Jan 20 12:26:48 <vinze> TheSheep: But won't the two seconds it takes now become four?
Jan 20 12:26:59 <TheSheep>      vinze: no idea
Jan 20 12:27:06 <vinze> TheSheep: lol :P
Jan 20 12:27:50 <somerville32>  Well, I'd love to see something done there
Jan 20 12:27:59 <somerville32>  As for the usplash, I think it looks good except for the text.
Jan 20 12:28:30 <Jmak>  somerville32: splash just make things more crowded
Jan 20 12:28:41 *       somerville32 likes his login splash.
Jan 20 12:29:03 <TheSheep>      maybe there is some theme we could use for making art for xubuntu -- sky? water? blue jewels?
Jan 20 12:29:22 <somerville32>  Black rodents?
Jan 20 12:30:12 <Jmak>  Listen, splash should be a branding image not a masterpeice. It si only the screen for a few seconds
Jan 20 12:30:39 <somerville32>  Several minutes for me
Jan 20 12:30:46 <somerville32>  lol
Jan 20 12:31:29 <Jmak>  If it is to complex it confuses
Jan 20 12:31:46 <somerville32>  I think he issue is that the text is too complex. It should be simpler and more tactful
Jan 20 12:32:17 <Jmak>  What text?
Jan 20 12:32:22 <somerville32>  "Xubuntu"
Jan 20 12:32:29 <somerville32>  The logo looks great
Jan 20 12:32:53 <vinze> Sorry g2g
Jan 20 12:33:05 <Jmak>  You mean in the login box
Jan 20 12:33:27 <fijam> see you, vinze
Jan 20 12:33:29 <vinze> Bye
Jan 20 12:33:36 *       vinze has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Jan 20 12:33:38 <somerville32>  Right now I'm talking about the usplash
Jan 20 12:33:49 <Jmak>  Ok
Jan 20 12:33:54 *       cjwatson has quit (No route to host)
Jan 20 12:34:18 <somerville32>  :)
Jan 20 12:34:30 <somerville32>  TheSheep: Water, I think
Jan 20 12:34:46 <TheSheep>      somerville32: waves?
Jan 20 12:34:58 <TheSheep>      somerville32: drops? like blubuntu?
Jan 20 12:35:12 <somerville32>  Something tranquil?
Jan 20 12:35:24 *       Czubek (n=Damian@82.160.179.2) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:36:20 <Jmak>  Glossiness is part of the overall theme, that is how the usplash was conceived
Jan 20 12:36:37 *       thianpa (n=thianpa@unaffiliated/thianpa) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:37:17 <somerville32>  Jmak: Right.
Jan 20 12:37:26 <somerville32>  Glossyness isn't the issue
Jan 20 12:37:55 <Jmak>  What then?
Jan 20 12:38:45 <somerville32>  The text is the issue, I don't like how it looks. I think the distaste lies with the thick blue borders.
Jan 20 12:39:21 <Jmak>  But you have to somehow separate off from the blach background
Jan 20 12:39:50 <jenda> ooh, xubuntu meeting... I'm sorry to interrupt with something so mundane, but I haven't got any response from the #xubuntu channels - I'll be printing about 1000 of Xubuntu case badges, and no one can tell me if they look good other than Xubuntu folks :)
Jan 20 12:39:58 <jenda> diy.devubuntu.com/xubuntu.png
Jan 20 12:40:15 <jenda> (please reply in -marketing not here)
Jan 20 12:40:30 <jenda> (and feel free to wait till after the meeting, of course)
Jan 20 12:40:30 <somerville32>  Jmak: I agree.
Jan 20 12:40:42 <somerville32>  Jmak: I'd like to see an alternate.
Jan 20 12:40:50 <somerville32>  Anyhow, lets keep moving
Jan 20 12:41:01 <somerville32>  We've already been here for awhile
Jan 20 12:41:04 <somerville32>  and we have more stuff to cover
Jan 20 12:41:22 <somerville32>  Any last comments?
Jan 20 12:42:04 <fijam> What I personanlly dislike about the usplash logo is that blue gradient descending into pitch-black. Maybe it could be made more... distinctive?
Jan 20 12:42:42 <Jmak>  It is not good. the mouse overlaps the logo, the colors are off and the lines are jagged
Jan 20 12:42:54 *       Maximilian1st (n=maximili@50-7.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:43:10 <somerville32>  So it is agreed the proposed usplash needs some more love?
Jan 20 12:43:43 *       Jester45 (n=Jester45@207-119-236-236.dyn.centurytel.net) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:44:18 <Jmak>  What kind of change do you exactly want?
Jan 20 12:44:51 <somerville32>  Personally, just the text
Jan 20 12:45:23 <somerville32>  Anyhows
Jan 20 12:45:25 <Jmak>  That's pretty vague
Jan 20 12:45:26 <somerville32>  We need to move on
Jan 20 12:45:35 <somerville32>  Jmak: We can discuss it more later.
Jan 20 12:45:36 <somerville32>  Documentation - Documentation efforts need to be organized. 
Jan 20 12:45:55 <somerville32>  Is there anybody who would be interested in working on the desktopguide?
Jan 20 12:45:59 <Ma1kel>        Wiki raids?
Jan 20 12:46:04 <somerville32>  I wear a lot of hats so I can't devote the love that it needs.
Jan 20 12:46:27 <somerville32>  Malkel: Not quite. There is a desktop guide that is shipped with Xubuntu - it is outdated and needs to be improved.
Jan 20 12:46:36 <somerville32>  However, I'm sure we'll pull content from the wiki
Jan 20 12:46:36 *       mc44 has quit ("Exit, Pursued by a Bear")
Jan 20 12:46:56 <fijam> I could do some work on this. I am downloading the svn trunk right now
Jan 20 12:47:06 <somerville32>  Awesome.
Jan 20 12:47:12 <somerville32>  Can I put your name down as a volunteer?
Jan 20 12:47:42 *       fijam is Jan Misiak
Jan 20 12:47:54 <somerville32>  crimsun, gpocentek: Do you have any insight for the desktop guide and documentation for Xubuntu in general?
Jan 20 12:48:32 <somerville32>  fijam, I have svn commit access
Jan 20 12:49:12 <somerville32>  fijam, We'll get together soon and discuss documentation.
Jan 20 12:49:19 <fijam> you and Luzius Theoney, already read of it
Jan 20 12:49:20 <fijam> ok
Jan 20 12:49:28 <somerville32>  Awesome.
Jan 20 12:49:29 <crimsun>       somerville32: not without having read current doc
Jan 20 12:49:40 <somerville32>  crimsun: You can see it at http://doc.ubuntu.com
Jan 20 12:49:56 <somerville32>  We can discuss documentation more at the next meeting
Jan 20 12:50:03 <somerville32>  Any last points?
Jan 20 12:50:12 *       BrendanM (n=mccollam@hor-gold95.hor.ucl.ac.uk) has left #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 12:50:24 <fijam> I've just scimmed through the styleguide
Jan 20 12:50:30 <fijam> ok
Jan 20 12:50:52 <gpocentek>     somerville32: Xfce has a nice documentation, if it included in the desktop guide, or even linked
Jan 20 12:51:01 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 12:51:04 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Good idea.
Jan 20 12:51:41 <fijam> However, there is no documentation for the 4.4 branch yet afaik
Jan 20 12:51:43 <gpocentek>     it was a question actually (s/if/is) ;)
Jan 20 12:51:59 <somerville32>  hehe
Jan 20 12:52:11 <somerville32>  gpocentek, I'm sure we could borrow from it
Jan 20 12:52:55 <gpocentek>     fijam: right
Jan 20 12:54:48 <fijam> and this influences a few things, especially the desktop manager, menu icons etc, so we might want to cover these issues on our own, at least the basics
Jan 20 12:55:18 <gpocentek>     indeed
Jan 20 12:55:37 <gpocentek>     Thunar doc is good, and is now included in the sources IIRC
Jan 20 12:55:52 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 12:56:21 <somerville32>  Alrighty.
Jan 20 12:56:27 <somerville32>  Any last points?
Jan 20 12:57:30 <somerville32>  Bug Triage - Whats the most effective way to triage Xubuntu related bugs? What procedures should our bug triage team follow? People to look after certain packages? (CodySomerville)
Jan 20 12:57:49 <somerville32>  1. How should we handle small feature requests?
Jan 20 12:57:51 *       gnomefreak has quit ("Lost terminal")
Jan 20 12:58:04 <somerville32>  ie. feature requests that don't deserve a specification
Jan 20 12:58:54 <crimsun>       I've not been averse to Wishlist bugs filed against the appropriate source packages using LP
Jan 20 13:00:50 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 13:00:56 <somerville32>  So just confirm them and mark them wishlist?
Jan 20 13:01:09 <crimsun>       that's my general practice
Jan 20 13:01:25 <crimsun>       if there's consensus that we should be doing otherwise, I'm happy to adhere
Jan 20 13:01:36 <somerville32>  I think Jani recommends that too
Jan 20 13:01:47 <somerville32>  and I'm ok with that
Jan 20 13:01:53 <somerville32>  but I always thought it was a goal to try and close bugs
Jan 20 13:01:55 <gpocentek>     so am I
Jan 20 13:01:56 *       lotusleaf (n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito) has left #ubuntu-meeting ("trombone")
Jan 20 13:02:33 *       Rinchen is now known as JoeyStanford
Jan 20 13:03:02 <somerville32>  Alright.
Jan 20 13:03:09 <somerville32>  Any other points on bug triage?
Jan 20 13:03:28 <gpocentek>     yep
Jan 20 13:03:32 *       somerville32 listens.
Jan 20 13:04:00 <gpocentek>     there's quite a lot of bugs reported against wrong packages or against no package at all
Jan 20 13:04:01 *       licio has quit ("cat /dev/licio >> /dev/bed")
Jan 20 13:05:04 <gpocentek>     I'd be nice to regularily find these bugs
Jan 20 13:05:37 <gpocentek>     a simple search on LP using "Xfce" gives a lot of results
Jan 20 13:06:04 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 13:06:08 <somerville32>  Good point.
Jan 20 13:06:39 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Do you have any ideas on how to improve the situation?
Jan 20 13:07:33 <gpocentek>     if someone can take the time to search those bugs once a week (for instance), it shouldn't take a lot of time and would be really helpful
Jan 20 13:08:02 <gpocentek>     I'm ready to take care about this
Jan 20 13:08:33 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 13:08:34 <gpocentek>     the task would not be a full triaging, simply suscribing the xubuntu-team
Jan 20 13:09:00 <somerville32>  Should we consider add the xubuntu-team as bug contacts for more packages?
Jan 20 13:09:03 <somerville32>  *adding
Jan 20 13:10:12 <gpocentek>     maybe more desktop apps
Jan 20 13:10:38 <gpocentek>     I'm not even sure that gxine is on our list for instance
Jan 20 13:10:53 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 13:11:24 <crimsun>       right, that's motumedia
Jan 20 13:12:43 <gpocentek>     anything else about bugs?
Jan 20 13:12:50 *       somerville32 doesn't think so.
Jan 20 13:12:57 <gpocentek>     ok
Jan 20 13:13:08 <somerville32>  So, last two topics for today
Jan 20 13:13:45 <somerville32>  #
Jan 20 13:13:45 <somerville32>  Xubuntu feisty dev-roadmap - Discuss and develop a dev-roadmap for Xubuntu Feisty Fawn + review of previous dev-roadmaps. 
Jan 20 13:13:45 <somerville32>  #
Jan 20 13:13:45 <somerville32>  Feisty Fawn - The goals for Feisty Fawn include adopting emerging desktop technology. What emerging desktop technology can the Xubuntu distribution adopt?
Jan 20 13:14:49 <gpocentek>     next week goal: get Xfce 4.4 final in ;)
Jan 20 13:14:56 *       somerville32 cheers.
Jan 20 13:15:07 <fijam> It hasn't been released yet, has it?
Jan 20 13:15:21 <gpocentek>     it should released tomorrow on monday
Jan 20 13:15:32 <fijam> good!
Jan 20 13:15:39 <gpocentek>     s/on/or
Jan 20 13:15:40 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 13:16:05 <somerville32>  gpocentek, We do plan to get thunar-volman in, right?
Jan 20 13:16:11 <gpocentek>     somerville32: yes
Jan 20 13:16:34 <somerville32>  Enabled by default?
Jan 20 13:16:37 *       vinze (n=vtunru@adsl-dc-22455.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 13:16:45 *       kalikiana has quit (Connection timed out)
Jan 20 13:16:55 <gpocentek>     somerville32: I guess :)
Jan 20 13:17:02 <vinze> Hey
Jan 20 13:17:18 <fijam> welcome back
Jan 20 13:17:22 <vinze> Thanks
Jan 20 13:17:29 <vinze> What're we discussing?
Jan 20 13:17:40 <somerville32>  gpocentek, What do you think about adding default gtk shortcuts?
Jan 20 13:17:50 *       gnomefreak (n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 13:18:08 <gpocentek>     somerville32: what kind of shortcuts?
Jan 20 13:18:25 <somerville32>  ie. Documents, Videos, Pictures, etc.
Jan 20 13:18:27 <somerville32>  Stuff like that
Jan 20 13:18:30 *       BuffaloSoldier has quit ("www.ubuntu.com")
Jan 20 13:18:46 <somerville32>  You see it in the file choicer and Thunar's left bar
Jan 20 13:18:53 <somerville32>  It might pose translation issues
Jan 20 13:19:02 <gpocentek>     yep
Jan 20 13:19:13 <somerville32>  and it would require us to actually have the directories created
Jan 20 13:19:22 <somerville32>  which would mean we would have to do that in /etc/skel/
Jan 20 13:19:30 <somerville32>  and I don't think too many distros do that
Jan 20 13:19:49 <gpocentek>     I don't really like the idea
Jan 20 13:19:56 <vinze> What idea?
Jan 20 13:20:21 <gpocentek>     of modifying dirs/files in the user's HOME
Jan 20 13:20:35 <vinze> With what purpose?
Jan 20 13:20:37 *       somerville32 agrees.
Jan 20 13:20:56 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Is it possible to add more "shortcuts" in the top part of the left bar?
Jan 20 13:21:20 <somerville32>  ie. Where the filesystem, home, etc. links are
Jan 20 13:21:35 <gpocentek>     do we really need more links?
Jan 20 13:21:51 <gpocentek>     (BTW this is an other discussion than feisty goals ;) )
Jan 20 13:22:30 <somerville32>  We're discussing whats plausible, :P
Jan 20 13:22:34 <vinze> gpocentek: Is it "Emerging Desktop Technologies"?
Jan 20 13:22:42 <somerville32>  And I think that a link to /media might be wise
Jan 20 13:23:24 <gpocentek>     why not
Jan 20 13:23:25 <vinze> If the folders get names other than cdrom0
Jan 20 13:23:33 *       j_ack (n=rudi@p508D9F11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 13:23:43 <vinze> Or usbdisk
Jan 20 13:23:48 <vinze> And usbdisk-1
Jan 20 13:23:56 <gpocentek>     vinze: true
Jan 20 13:24:25 <vinze> Don't most devices have labels for that?
Jan 20 13:24:26 *       Ppjet6 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Jan 20 13:24:39 <vinze> But that would be more Thunar-specific I guess
Jan 20 13:24:43 *       Ppjet6 (n=ppjet6@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-130-254.adsl.proxad.net) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 13:24:50 <gpocentek>     yes
Jan 20 13:25:06 <somerville32>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Feisty/Xubuntu-Wishlist <-- It is actually readable.
Jan 20 13:25:59 <somerville32>  One thing that is mentioned is disabling case-sensitive sort in Thunar. Apparently it is in the Thunar config file but not the gui config tool.
Jan 20 13:26:36 <somerville32>  Another item is Tracker
Jan 20 13:26:51 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Have you had a chance to use kalikiana's search tool?
Jan 20 13:26:51 <fijam> Tracker - the search tool?
Jan 20 13:26:56 <vinze> Tracker sounds cool to me
Jan 20 13:27:16 <gpocentek>     somerville32: yes
Jan 20 13:27:32 <gpocentek>     I don't really like the UI
Jan 20 13:27:51 <gpocentek>     and it's only a frontend to find, and slocate
Jan 20 13:27:57 <somerville32>  Not only find and slocate
Jan 20 13:28:02 <gpocentek>     a desktop search tool does more than that
Jan 20 13:28:02 <somerville32>  It also supports tracker and beagle
Jan 20 13:28:12 <gpocentek>     if there are installed
Jan 20 13:28:28 <vinze> Well if the UI is not that pleasant then it should not be used as front-end for tracker I guess...
Jan 20 13:28:48 <gpocentek>     is tracker a command line tool (never used it)
Jan 20 13:28:51 *       Ubugtu has changed the topic to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Jan 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 24 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 Jan 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 Jan 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 31 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Jan 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu
Jan 20 13:28:51 <gpocentek>     ?
Jan 20 13:28:58 <somerville32>  Yes
Jan 20 13:29:03 <gpocentek>     ok
Jan 20 13:29:11 <gpocentek>     it needs to be tested
Jan 20 13:29:31 <gpocentek>     and packaged...
Jan 20 13:29:40 <somerville32>  What needs to be packaged?
Jan 20 13:30:12 <vinze> Screenshots also show a GUI: http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/screenshots.html
Jan 20 13:30:18 <fijam> it looks promising
Jan 20 13:30:26 <gpocentek>     somerville32: tracker
Jan 20 13:30:39 <vinze> http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/download.html
Jan 20 13:30:41 <somerville32>  tracker is already packaged
Jan 20 13:30:48 <vinze> See my link :D
Jan 20 13:31:19 <gpocentek>     somerville32: and available in debian or ubuntu ?
Jan 20 13:31:40 <somerville32>  gpocentek, I heard someone in #u-devel that it was accepted into Feisty
Jan 20 13:31:47 <vinze> buntu : should be in Feisty universe soon... ATM experimental debs can be found for i386 arch at
Jan 20 13:31:47 <vinze> "deb http://debs.michaelbiebl.de/ edgy main" for edgy
Jan 20 13:31:47 <vinze> "deb http://debs.michaelbiebl.de/ dapper main" for dapper
Jan 20 13:31:48 <somerville32>  apt-cache agrees
Jan 20 13:31:51 <fijam> there is a gtk ui tracker-search-tool and QT one (under development)
Jan 20 13:32:00 <somerville32>  fijam, There are several
Jan 20 13:32:03 <somerville32>  TheSheep: ping
Jan 20 13:32:13 <TheSheep>      pong
Jan 20 13:32:28 <TheSheep>      somerville32: you rang my lord?
Jan 20 13:32:31 <gpocentek>     hum, tracker depends on gnome libs
Jan 20 13:32:38 *       tkjacobsen (n=mash@105.18.235.85.dk-boa.res.dyn.perspektivbredband.net) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 13:32:43 <TheSheep>      gpocentek: I'm working on a xfce one
Jan 20 13:32:55 <gpocentek>     TheSheep: oh, great
Jan 20 13:32:57 <TheSheep>      gpocentek: but it's not much more advanced than kalikiana's
Jan 20 13:33:07 <vinze> But is it easy to use?
Jan 20 13:33:11 <TheSheep>      gpocentek: more closely tied to tracker and thunar, though
Jan 20 13:33:13 <vinze> And fast?
Jan 20 13:33:30 <TheSheep>      vinze: I try my best :)
Jan 20 13:33:46 <TheSheep>      vinze: time (and users) will tell
Jan 20 13:34:21 <somerville32>  Is it agreed that a file search tool is a goal for Feisty?
Jan 20 13:34:42 <vinze> Great
Jan 20 13:34:43 <vinze> Yes
Jan 20 13:34:57 <gpocentek>     somerville32: if we can find a good candidate, yes :)
Jan 20 13:35:09 <vinze> And a calculator, is that already included?
Jan 20 13:35:40 <TheSheep>      vinze: what's wrong with a command-line calculator like bc?
Jan 20 13:35:45 <TheSheep>      vinze: it's much more useful
Jan 20 13:35:51 <vinze> I prefer GUI's
Jan 20 13:35:52 <TheSheep>      vinze: an icon in the menu would be enough
Jan 20 13:35:56 <vinze> Yes I'm one of that kind :D
Jan 20 13:36:05 <TheSheep>      vinze: you mean you really push the buttons with your mouse???
Jan 20 13:36:14 <vinze> Yes :D
Jan 20 13:36:18 <vinze> Or typing
Jan 20 13:36:23 <vinze> But outside of the terminal
Jan 20 13:36:43 <gpocentek>     vinze: we have gcalctool
Jan 20 13:36:51 <gpocentek>     and python :)
Jan 20 13:37:09 <somerville32>  lol
Jan 20 13:37:15 <vinze> Is gcalctool included by default?
Jan 20 13:37:28 <gpocentek>     vinze: yes
Jan 20 13:37:33 <vinze> O ok
Jan 20 13:37:38 <vinze> That's cool
Jan 20 13:37:43 <somerville32>  gpocentek, What about the menu? That seems to be one of the major complains.
Jan 20 13:37:50 <somerville32>  Any ideas on how we can improve it?
Jan 20 13:38:05 <gpocentek>     somerville32: upstream is working on something
Jan 20 13:38:18 <vinze> Well, I think we should at least keep System and Settings separated
Jan 20 13:38:20 <gpocentek>     but I have not really looked at this yet
Jan 20 13:38:27 <vinze> I read somewhere Gnome would be bundling them
Jan 20 13:38:44 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Why did we get rid of Thunar, Terminal, and Firefox from the top level?
Jan 20 13:39:03 *       somerville32 still has it because the upgrade didn't overwrite his settings.
Jan 20 13:39:26 <gpocentek>     somerville32: Jani decided it, no idea why
Jan 20 13:39:42 <somerville32>  I think we should discuss reimplementing it
Jan 20 13:39:56 <gpocentek>     maybe in a different way
Jan 20 13:40:02 <vinze> I'd make Thunar a "Home" icon
Jan 20 13:40:05 <gpocentek>     icons on the panel for instance
Jan 20 13:40:08 <somerville32>  TheSheep: Whats the #1 question in #xubuntu?
Jan 20 13:40:31 <vinze> But I don't think a Terminal icon is neccessary
Jan 20 13:40:36 <vinze> But you'll probably disagree
Jan 20 13:40:48 <Jester45>      can i ask a question is the #1 asked question
Jan 20 13:41:02 <vinze> Jester45: lol
Jan 20 13:41:07 <Jester45>      not to be smart or anything
Jan 20 13:41:12 <somerville32>  I personally have have Firefox, Gedit, Thunar, and Terminal as launchers on my bar next to xfce menu
Jan 20 13:41:29 <vinze> I have about 20 icons in my top panel :D
Jan 20 13:41:31 <somerville32>  Maybe we should add those four launchers (except replacing gedit with mousepad)?
Jan 20 13:41:41 *       Jester45 is at 16
Jan 20 13:42:00 <gpocentek>     mousepad and terminal are geeky utils IMO
Jan 20 13:42:05 <vinze> I agree
Jan 20 13:42:24 <gpocentek>     and geeks can add icons on their panel ;)
Jan 20 13:42:24 <vinze> But Firefox and "Home" (better than Thunar IMHO) are fine with me
Jan 20 13:42:32 <vinze> geeks like to customize :D
Jan 20 13:42:56 <somerville32>  lol
Jan 20 13:43:02 <somerville32>  Abiword then
Jan 20 13:43:03 <somerville32>  lol
Jan 20 13:43:20 <somerville32>  And the terminal is there to make it a nice round number of four icons ;]
Jan 20 13:43:27 <vinze> Yeah I think Abiword is a good idea
Jan 20 13:43:39 <vinze> I like three
Jan 20 13:43:59 <gpocentek>     hum, if we starrt with adding desktop apps to the panel, we will end with 30 launchers
Jan 20 13:44:04 <Jester45>      i dont like Abiword my self but many new to linuxers like it becuase it looks like MSWord
Jan 20 13:44:16 <vinze> gpocentek: Well, mainly the most-used apps
Jan 20 13:44:28 <vinze> (File-)Browsing and Word Processing
Jan 20 13:44:30 <somerville32>  gpocentek, I think we can limit it to those. They are the most used desktop applications.
Jan 20 13:44:35 <vinze> I like Abiword because it's fast
Jan 20 13:45:27 <gpocentek>     maybe we should discuss default settings on the ML
Jan 20 13:45:57 <gpocentek>     or even better, the xubuntu-default-settings package has a bzr branch
Jan 20 13:46:05 <vinze> We should make some kind of voting page
Jan 20 13:46:12 <gpocentek>     feel free to create your own branch to propose your choice
Jan 20 13:46:14 <vinze> Didn't LP support polls?
Jan 20 13:46:22 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Btw, why is that authored by ubuntu-core-dev and not xubuntu-team? :P
Jan 20 13:46:41 <gpocentek>     somerville32: because it deals with packaging I guess
Jan 20 13:46:54 <gpocentek>     somerville32: but it's not a problem
Jan 20 13:47:15 <gpocentek>     we can create a xubuntu-team branch and merge it with the core-dev one
Jan 20 13:47:20 <somerville32>  True
Jan 20 13:48:08 <gpocentek>     ok, is there anything else?
Jan 20 13:48:11 <somerville32>  Well
Jan 20 13:48:15 <fijam> I have a question regarding media player for Feisty. Will it be still gxine?
Jan 20 13:48:19 <somerville32>  I think there are some more goals we can set for Feisty
Jan 20 13:48:36 <gpocentek>     fijam: I think so
Jan 20 13:48:48 <vinze> Will AIGLX also be default for Xubuntu?
Jan 20 13:48:53 <vinze> Automatically I mean
Jan 20 13:48:59 <vinze> So without Beryl or Compiz
Jan 20 13:49:03 <somerville32>  gpocentek, What about SMB?
Jan 20 13:49:13 <somerville32>  Should we consider adding pyNeighborhood to the seeds?
Jan 20 13:49:21 <somerville32>  Have you even had a chance to try it yet?
Jan 20 13:49:29 <gpocentek>     somerville32: does it work well?
Jan 20 13:49:33 <gpocentek>     I've not tested it yet
Jan 20 13:49:42 <somerville32>  gpocentek, 0.4 is a lot better then 0.3
Jan 20 13:49:46 <somerville32>  It is actively being developed
Jan 20 13:49:50 <somerville32>  Upstream said they'd love to help
Jan 20 13:50:01 <gpocentek>     great
Jan 20 13:50:09 <somerville32>  It is in Universe currently
Jan 20 13:50:27 <gpocentek>     yep
Jan 20 13:51:06 <somerville32>  Give it a try if you can and let me know what you think and I'll file a MIR
Jan 20 13:51:12 <Jester45>      bye bye fear not as i will be back soon
Jan 20 13:51:15 *       Jester45 (n=Jester45@207-119-236-236.dyn.centurytel.net) has left #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 13:51:18 *       vinze fears
Jan 20 13:51:19 <gpocentek>     somerville32: ok, I'll test it
Jan 20 13:51:20 <vinze> O damn
Jan 20 13:51:52 <vinze> How about this notification daemon for Xfce?
Jan 20 13:52:23 <somerville32>  Interesting idea
Jan 20 13:52:33 <gpocentek>     Thunar can use it
Jan 20 13:52:49 <gpocentek>     for eject/umount notification popups
Jan 20 13:52:52 <somerville32>  But might it cause a conflict with the gnome notification daemon?
Jan 20 13:53:13 <vinze> Well, yes
Jan 20 13:53:23 <gpocentek>     somerville32: yes, but that's not a problem, xubuntu-desktop can depend on notification-daemon | xfce-n-d
Jan 20 13:53:30 <vinze> Quote: Notification-daemon-xfce conflicts with the original notification-daemon
Jan 20 13:53:44 <somerville32>  gpocentek, perfect.
Jan 20 13:55:28 <somerville32>  Alrighty
Jan 20 13:55:46 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Do you want me to package xfce-n-d or will you?
Jan 20 13:55:56 *       damian_ (n=damian@bne111.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 13:56:09 <gpocentek>     somerville32: go ahead
Jan 20 13:56:16 <gpocentek>     I'll review it :)
Jan 20 13:56:19 <somerville32>  lol, ok
Jan 20 13:56:28 <somerville32>  gpocentek, Did you review my updated patch, btw?
Jan 20 13:56:38 <gpocentek>     somerville32: not yet
Jan 20 13:57:18 <somerville32>  As for xfce 4.4
Jan 20 13:57:20 *       tkjacobsen (n=mash@105.18.235.85.dk-boa.res.dyn.perspektivbredband.net) has left #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 13:57:27 <somerville32>  Do you plan to do that solo or can I help?
Jan 20 13:58:33 <gpocentek>     somerville32: feel free to grab some packages, but we'll have to coordinate to not duplicate the work
Jan 20 13:59:07 <somerville32>  ok
Jan 20 13:59:19 <gpocentek>     including the goodies it'll be ~30 packages that need to be updated
Jan 20 13:59:40 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 13:59:47 <gpocentek>     somerville32: mr_pouit has already updated a bunch of plugins BTW
Jan 20 13:59:53 *       somerville32 nods.
Jan 20 14:00:02 <somerville32>  Is the delta between 4.4 RC2 and stable big?
Jan 20 14:00:15 <gpocentek>     no
Jan 20 14:00:36 <somerville32>  Anything cool besides the Thunar improvements?
Jan 20 14:01:03 <gpocentek>     nothing new since RC2
Jan 20 14:01:05 *       indylarry (n=larry@74-132-144-190.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 14:02:46 <gpocentek>     ok, /me is off for diner ;)
Jan 20 14:02:56 <vinze> Have fun :D
Jan 20 14:04:28 <fijam> I am off to go, too
Jan 20 14:04:36 <vinze> Bye
Jan 20 14:04:41 <fijam> see you
Jan 20 14:04:45 *       fijam has quit ("See you later")
Jan 20 14:05:14 <somerville32>  I have to get something to eat too :)
Jan 20 14:06:01 *       tonyyarusso has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
Jan 20 14:06:14 *       tonyyarusso (n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 14:06:43 *       licio (n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Jan 20 14:08:06 <vinze> So is the meeting over?
Jan 20 14:10:12 <somerville32>  I think that would be safe to say, yes ;]