07:02   somerville32    Cheers
=== j1mc [n=jim@72-254-22-239.client.stsn.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
07:03   j1mc    hi all
07:03   j1mc    sorry i'm a bit late
07:03   j1mc    wonky hotel wifi
07:03   somerville32    No problem. I'm just getting up from my nap
07:03   j1mc    heh
07:03   maxamillion     hello
07:03   j1mc    hi maxamillion
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07:04   maxamillion     i can only stay for an hour, i should have left town an hour ago to go visit my father, but i didn't want to miss the meeting
07:04   j1mc    what a guy... :)
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07:04   vidd_laptop     i thought the meeting was later....
07:05   j1mc    hi luzi
07:05   luzi    hi there
07:05   vidd_laptop     @schedual New_york
07:05   vidd_laptop     !schedual New_York
07:05   j1mc    @schedule New_york
07:05   maxamillion     schedule*
07:05   ubotu   Schedule for America/New_York: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 19 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 20 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 14:00: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team
=== vidd_laptop cant spell
07:06   maxamillion     rgr
07:06   maxamillion     ok, we are 6 minutes past time ... shall we get started?
07:07   somerville32    Aye.
=== maxamillion worries he will have a loss of power ... the storm rumbles out side
07:07   j1mc    sure...
07:08   j1mc    well, shall we go according to the agenda?
07:08   somerville32    One second, I'm going to relocate to somewhere more comfy.
07:08   somerville32    Please begin :]
07:08   j1mc    ok.
07:09   somerville32    Ok
07:09   j1mc    first item up on the agenda ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings ) is the website
07:09   somerville32    Aye.
07:09   j1mc    desafortunadamente, we don't have TheSheep here to talk about it...
07:09   j1mc    maxamillion: do you have anything you'd like to say about it?
07:10   somerville32    I know that TheSheep mentioned that he wasn't working on it anymore because of lack of time.
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=== j1mc thinks "adam" is maxamillion
=== adam is now known as maxamillion
07:11   vidd_laptop     wb maxamillion
=== maxamillion slaps his internet connection
07:11   somerville32    Unfortunately, I can't make any commitments since I'll be leaving July 1st until late August
07:11   maxamillion     thanks vidd_laptop
07:11   maxamillion     i lagged out
07:11   somerville32    Otherwise, I'd just hack at the template myself.
=== Hobbsee wonders if xubuntu-restricted-extras is of any use to anyone
07:11   j1mc    yeah... maxamillion we were talking about the website, and how TheSheep hasn't been working on it due to lack of time.
=== vidd_laptop does not understand the deal with the website....do we acually want to clone ubuntu?
07:12   maxamillion     Hobbsee: i've never heard of it to be truly honest
07:12   Hobbsee maxamillion: because it doesnt exist.
07:12   Hobbsee maxamillion: the resources are there that it can now
07:13   maxamillion     Hobbsee: ah, i guess that is an idea i would have to bring up to jani
07:13   j1mc    Hobbsee: can we come back to that a little later in the meeting?
07:13   maxamillion     j1mc: sorry
07:13   Hobbsee j1mc: of course.  just giving a heads up.  i'm actually heading towards bed.  sorry to hijack.
07:13   maxamillion     j1mc: what's the current order of business?
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07:13   j1mc    np...  :)  thanks, Hobbsee... we'll be in touch about it.
07:14   j1mc    maxamillion: we're talking about the website
07:14   j1mc    thesheep doesn't have much time to work on it, and cody is leaving soon.
07:14   maxamillion     ah
07:15   j1mc    should we just consider a .css refresh?
07:15   vidd_laptop     is it already decided that we ARE cloning the ubuntu site or is that still in the air?
07:15   somerville32    It would be easier to just use the new template.
07:15   j1mc    there's a guy in chicago-ubuntu who is pretty good with drupal.
07:16   somerville32    j1mc: Aye. TheSheep isn't the only person who has the necessary skills
07:17   somerville32    I wonder what the other derivs. are doing.
07:17   j1mc    yeah... i don't want to sign anybody up who isn't at the meeting, but i bet we could get the word out amongst our respective circles.
07:17   j1mc    someone could help us...
07:17   somerville32    Do Kubuntu, Edubuntu, etc. have intentions to use the new template?
07:17   maxamillion     i thought he had already done the theme change, just needed to add a new logo icons
07:17   j1mc    good question.
07:17   Hobbsee i think kubuntu is going to use the new template.  there's a spec on it
07:17   vidd_laptop     if i had this template...i could do the design...i guess
07:17   maxamillion     s/icons/icon
07:18   Hobbsee spec will tell of more details
=== Hobbsee --> bed.
07:18   maxamillion     night Hobbsee
07:18   somerville32    maxamillion: Since you're the prime guy for the website right now, maybe you could create a specification and then we can all pitch in once you've got the framework done?
07:19   somerville32    I think we can all agree that we want the new template
07:19   somerville32    It is very professional, neat, clean, and lovely
07:19   somerville32    lol
07:19   j1mc    yes, the new template looks good. :)
07:19   somerville32    The question is implementation and the question of content
07:19   vidd_laptop     so then....when will ubuntu use it?
07:19   somerville32    Pardon?
07:19   maxamillion     somerville32: i thought we already had a spec for it? ... i could have sworn all this was said and done, there were just minor changes needing to be made to the drupal theme that radomir worked on
07:20   j1mc    vidd_laptop: ubuntu uses it already.  ubuntu.com
07:20   vidd_laptop     if this templete is as great as you make it out to be...then ubuntu does not have it up
07:20   j1mc    maxamillion: you probably know better than the rest of us.
07:21   maxamillion     i saw a screenshot of the one radomir was working on .. it looked almost finished to me, i thought he was just cleaning up some css code
07:21   somerville32    I too saw it
07:21   somerville32    It was looking good.
07:22   maxamillion     somerville32: then we should get that code from him if he's not able to finish it
07:22   somerville32    maxamillion: Do you think you could be responsible for ensuring that the new template is implemented for the release of Gutsy?
=== somerville32 crosses his fingers.
07:22   somerville32    maxamillion: aye
=== j1mc waits as maxamillion types his response :)
07:23   maxamillion     somerville32: yes, i can commit to that
07:23   j1mc    awesome.  :)
07:23   somerville32    Awesome indeed.
07:24   somerville32    Thanks max
07:24   somerville32    Lets talk about the doc-browser
07:24   maxamillion     anytime
07:24   somerville32    j1mc: Did you and Admiral get to talk to some people in -doc again re: doc browseR?
07:24   j1mc    no, not really...
07:25   j1mc    i am just not sure what all additional work is required on the spec.
07:25   maxamillion     doc-browser, i like the idea, but we would need to get it sponsored by a core-dev in order to get it in main so we can distribute it in the release iso
07:25   somerville32    The first step is developing it
07:25   somerville32    They can't put it in main unless it is all packaged and in tip-top quality.
07:25   maxamillion     somerville32: right
07:25   somerville32    Once we get to the that point, we simply need it promoted and added to the seeds.
07:26   j1mc    a comment was left on the spec on the wiki stating that much more work was needed in the latter section, but i am not sure what all to add.
07:26   somerville32    j1mc: Link?
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07:27   j1mc    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Gutsy/DocumentationBrowser
07:27   j1mc    "The following sections need extensive work"
07:28   j1mc    not being a developer, I'm not sure what to add.
07:28   j1mc    . . . once that is ready, though, i should put it up on launchpad, correct?
07:28   somerville32    You can put it on now
07:29   somerville32    I can even do it if you'd like
07:29   j1mc    it's ok... i'll handle it...
07:29   maxamillion     yeah, once its on there i will join it ... maybe even put together a draft of the code sometime next week
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07:29   j1mc    could either of you lend some insight as to what else would be needed in the spec, though? add a few additional comments?
07:30   maxamillion     main issue is a proper search feature, shouldn't be too hard to code though ... but that will be the hardest part
07:31   somerville32    We don't need search
07:32   maxamillion     no?
07:32   somerville32    If we use Topic Based Help, we should be A1
07:32   somerville32    Search could be something added later
07:32   maxamillion     doesn't yelp have a search feature?
07:32   maxamillion     ah, ok
07:32   somerville32    maxamillion: ie. If we can get a stable release that can go into gutsy first, then we can focus on extra stuff
07:32   j1mc    makes sense.
07:33   maxamillion     right
07:33   somerville32    j1mc: Did you create the spec on lp yet? :]
07:33   j1mc    no, should i create it right now?  :)
=== j1mc goes to create spec. :)
07:35   somerville32    maxamillion: The UI needs heavy specing
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07:35   maxamillion     somerville32: i agree
07:35   maxamillion     somerville32: my honest plan is to mimic the yelp ui
=== somerville32 ponders.
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07:36   somerville32    We should get TheSheep's help on the UI. He is a UI god.
07:36   maxamillion     he's just kinda an all around god, but yes ... he has alot of insight on UI
07:37   somerville32    Which is better then I
07:37   somerville32    I have nonme
07:37   somerville32    :]
07:38   maxamillion     i have some ... i took a course last semester on human-computer-interaction and we covered ALOT of UI stuff
07:40   somerville32    Awesome.
07:41   maxamillion     but anyways, that's a tad offtopic
07:41   j1mc    ah, sorry guys... anyone have a link to set up a spec?
07:41   maxamillion     we need to draft a UI spec and add it to jim's spec
=== j1mc looking... no luck yet.
07:41   somerville32    lol
07:41   maxamillion     :P
07:42   somerville32    j1mc: I'll do it real quick
07:42   j1mc    ok... then show me how you did it.
07:42   j1mc    sorry, all.
07:42   somerville32    https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+addspec
07:43   j1mc    ok... .want me to do it now?
07:44   somerville32    https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-documentation-browser
07:44   somerville32    Already done
07:45   j1mc    thanks...
07:45   maxamillion     heh, i'm already assined
07:45   maxamillion     :)
07:46   maxamillion     assigned*
07:46   maxamillion     bleh ... i'm tired
=== j1mc gives maxamillion some coffee
07:47   maxamillion     thanks
07:47   maxamillion     speaking of .... i should get some of that on my way out of town so i don't fall asleep on the road
07:47   somerville32    <g>
07:47   maxamillion     ok, we covered the website, and now the spec for the doc viewer .. next order of business?
07:47   somerville32    j1mc: How goes actual doc writing?
07:48   somerville32    And what was that I heard about us migrating to bzr?
07:48   j1mc    it is going fairly well - not huge progress, but we are moving along.
=== maxamillion thought the docs were already held in a bzr repo
07:48   j1mc    migrating to bzr isn't going to happen, but i do have a question about getting our changes up...
07:48   j1mc    maxamillion: they are in a subversion repo.
07:49   maxamillion     huh
07:49   j1mc    since we are changing so much of the documentation for xubuntu, i don't want to submit huuuge patches...
07:49   luzi    can we have a look at it?
07:49   j1mc    we're basically using current ubuntu docs as a guide...
07:50   j1mc    luzi: yeah... how do you want us to handle submitting patches?  just submit them all to the ubuntu-doc mailing list?
07:50   j1mc    the thing is... i don't think that we're really submitting "patches" we're basically submitting new content.
07:50   j1mc    at least in terms of xubuntu . . .
07:50   somerville32    Thats ok.
07:50   luzi    that's patches too, just really big ones.
=== somerville32 nods.
07:51   luzi    i think it'd be better to work in the official doc repo
07:51   j1mc    ok... we'll submit our first set this week, and then get feedback, i suppose.
07:51   j1mc    luzi: i agree...
07:51   luzi    not start your own branch, and then find out someone else has worked on the official repo.\
07:51   j1mc    right...
07:51   somerville32    Once you start getting a few patches in (and show that you check your work), you'll get SVN access quickly.
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07:52   j1mc    but basically we're using ubuntu docs as a base...
07:52   somerville32    As for creating your own branch, it IS possible that you could create a product and sync the SVN branch into a bzr branch
07:52   somerville32    Then you could use get a sponsor to upload your diffs (ie. patchs)
07:53   somerville32    But I figure you guys will get access soon enough anyhow
07:53   j1mc    hmmm... yeah, that sounds like a hassle, though...  :)  i think it'll work out submitting patches up through the mailing list.
07:53   j1mc    we'll see how it goes.
07:53   j1mc    as i said, freddy and i will start submitting what we've been working on this week.
07:54   luzi    sounds good to me.
07:54   j1mc    the good news is that we are meeting weekly, and we're learning docbook, and are making progress.  :)
07:54   somerville32    Awesome! Kudos! :)
07:54   j1mc    the patch i submitted to the mailing list a few days ago was my first patch EVAR by the way.  :)
07:55   somerville32    :D
07:55   maxamillion     j1mc: congrats ;)
07:55   j1mc    hehe
07:55   j1mc    next topic?
07:55   maxamillion     sure
07:56   somerville32    Keep us updated about doc status
07:56   somerville32    It lifts morale when one knows others are accomplishing things
07:56   j1mc    ok.  i will.
07:56   maxamillion     thankies
07:56   somerville32    Which motivates them to do something productive too!
07:56   j1mc    :)
07:58   j1mc    it looks like we're missing our special guest.
07:58   maxamillion     :(
07:58   somerville32    Disappointing, aye.
07:58   somerville32    Whats the other item on the list?
07:59   somerville32    More prominent add/remove in menu?
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07:59   maxamillion     well, i need to get going ... i might be back later
07:59   maxamillion     it will be a few hours though, i have a long drive ahead of me
07:59   maxamillion     laters all!!
07:59   j1mc    ok, maxamillion thanks for your help.
08:00   j1mc    somerville32: yeah, the add-remove item was on the list...
08:01   j1mc    i think it's ok where it is, though...
08:01   somerville32    Who added the item?
08:01   j1mc    VincentZekred
08:02   somerville32    Ok
08:03   somerville32    Well, I suppose we can discuss the items we were going to discuss with Cory
08:03   j1mc    sure...
08:04   j1mc    would you like to start?
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08:05   somerville32    I think there is a fundamental issue at heart
08:06   somerville32    It feels like, at times, it is the blind leading the blind and we happen to be just going in circles.
08:07   j1mc    i do see some of the same issues being brought up again and again...
08:08   j1mc    and to me, it seems that items of little importance receive a good deal of attention.
08:08   somerville32    There is a recognized lack of direction. A lot of us, such as myself, simply don't have the experience to lead the develop of a distribution by ourselves. We aren't always aware of the resources available or the best way to do things.
08:08   somerville32    Aye.
08:08   j1mc    yeah...
08:09   somerville32    We all have good intentions but I think it would be hard to argue that there is more talk then actual do.
=== j1mc nods
08:10   j1mc    i don't really know who does the work for xubuntu other than jani.
08:10   somerville32    I think it is just Jani and Lionel now
08:10   j1mc    there seems to be a disconnect there for one thing . . .  who is Lionel?
08:10   j1mc    it's sad that i don't know that.  :)
08:11   lionel  mr_pouit, not me :)
08:11   somerville32    Aye
08:11   somerville32    lol
08:11   mr_pouit        yes ^^
=== j1mc waves at mr_pouit and asks if he is lionel.
08:11   j1mc    :)
08:11   mr_pouit        yes, I am Lionel :P
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08:13   somerville32    j1mc: I agree with you. There is most certainly a disconnect.
08:13   mr_pouit        Jani has very little time, that's why he never attends the meeting iirc.
=== somerville32 nods.
08:13   somerville32    Jani is very busy.
08:13   j1mc    mr_pouit and jani are doing the real core work for xubuntu it seems... it would just be good to know how to support them...
08:14   j1mc    and it seems like we have people at the high level, like jani and mr_pouit , but not many folks in between that and people at the end where there isn't much coding going on.
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08:15   j1mc    i'm not sure what all else to say on this topic.
08:16   mr_pouit        there are many things to do : merging packages from debian (I am taking care of that since the begin of gutsy dev cycle), "degnomify"ing apps (Jani tries to do this), but also bug triaging, translations...
=== somerville32 nods.
08:18   somerville32    Maybe we lose focus too often of what there really is to do?
08:18   somerville32    But at the same time, I still feel like there is something missing.
08:18   somerville32    A link along the way
08:19   somerville32    I guess the question is, why do people not know what to do when they know what they can do?
=== j1mc phone
08:19   somerville32    or *could do
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08:22   j1mc    back...
08:22   j1mc    that's a good question, cody...
08:23   somerville32    It is a question I can only guess at
08:23   j1mc    i think we could tackle it in a few ways...
08:23   somerville32    Aye.
08:23   mr_pouit        j1mc: I think the people "between" could be bugtriagers
=== j1mc thinks aloud . . . :)
08:23   mr_pouit        It doesn't need coding.packaging skills, and it's very useful
08:24   j1mc    mr_pouit: agreed.  :)
08:24   j1mc    but how do we encourage people to triage?
08:24   j1mc    ... through the lists...
08:24   mr_pouit        and it doesn't seem that the bugsquad takes care of xubuntu bugs... many stays untriaged :/
08:24   gpocentek       hug days \o/
08:24   j1mc    ... through xubuntu bugs days...
08:24   j1mc    hug days, yeay!
08:24   mr_pouit        yes
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08:25   gpocentek       make people jump in and triage Xubuntu bugs during hug days
=== somerville32 pushes gpocentek into the bug pool for hugs.
08:25   j1mc    but also . . .  the mailing lists and the ubuntu planet could be used as means to give these topics some attention.
08:25   somerville32    Aye
08:25   somerville32    j1mc: I agree.
08:26   j1mc    somerville32: what's with you saying "Aye" ... are you a pirate now?  :-P
08:26   j1mc    no, i guess that would be Arrrg!
08:26   j1mc    sorry
=== j1mc was just teasing, somerville32 :)
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08:27   j1mc    mr_pouit: you think that would help - bug traige?  this is a big need for you guys?
08:27   somerville32    mr_pouit, gpocentek: What about people on this "higher end" who want to package (can package and do), want to program (can program and do), and want to help _develop_ yet don't have the experience to do so.
08:27   somerville32    s/./?
08:28   somerville32    A good example is the network manager
08:30   gpocentek       j1mc: bug triaging usually leads to have a look at the packages too
08:30   mr_pouit        somerville32: for packaging, there is the Ubuntu-motu-mentors ML, and there's the possibility to get mentored by a MOTU
=== neversfelde [n=neversfe@nrbg-4db44554.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
08:32   j1mc    one thing that was helpful during the run-up to the release of feisty was jani asked certain items to be tested.
=== doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-124-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
08:32   somerville32    mr_pouit: I can already package but I'd like to go one step further and start developing and implementing specifications.
08:32   j1mc    as cody mentioned before, knowing what others are working on would help further participation of others.
08:32   j1mc    help build momentum...
08:33   Toadstool       bug triaging is one of the best way in actually, if you don't stick to the click-on-LP part of the job, it gives you a chance to examine different kind of packages and gives you much more experience than just packaging some random app imho
08:35   luzi    i've got to go. see you all!
08:35   j1mc    take care, luzi
=== somerville32 waves at luzi
=== somerville32 nods at Toadstool
08:36   gpocentek       somerville32: my first steps with coding was fixes to xfce applets
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=== somerville32 nods.
08:37   somerville32    Ok :]
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08:41   j1mc    so, a few things we can take away from this:  bug triage is appreciated by the developers, and we need more of it.
08:41   j1mc    ... we could use some mentoring (?) for people interested in developing more... or advancing their development skills...
08:41   gpocentek       yes
08:42   j1mc    what else...
08:42   gpocentek       you can play with simple packaging tasks
08:42   j1mc    providing a bit more prompting on what could be done may be helpful in generating more activity.
08:42   gpocentek       packages updates for instance, not necessarily Xubuntu related
=== j1mc nods
08:43   gpocentek       if you want to develop stuff in *ubuntu, you'll *have* to be ready to touch packages
08:43   gpocentek       this also means being around in #u-motu
08:44   j1mc    somerville32: anything to add...  there's more, i know... these are not small issues, really...
08:44   gpocentek       for Jani, Lionel and me, everything started with the MOTUs
=== somerville32 nods
08:44   somerville32    j1mc: I think we covered a lot of good ground today.
08:45   j1mc    i think part of it may be that people might not think that they would be ready to be a motu.  or they don't think of it as something they could attain.  ??  or maybe we just don't have enough motu-minded people with us now.
08:45   gpocentek       maybe
08:45   gpocentek       there's almost nothing in universe related to xubuntu
08:45   gpocentek       main only
08:45   mr_pouit        2 or 3 panel-plugins
08:45   gpocentek       but becoming a MOTU is possible for *everyone*
08:46   somerville32    It generally takes 2 release cycles though
08:46   j1mc    mr_pouit: i think that a note to the list every now and then from you and jani, just letting us know what you're working on, would be good.
08:46   gpocentek       yes, but it doesn't mean that your work is not applied
08:46   somerville32    gpocentek: aye
08:46   j1mc    also identifying any areas that need help, testing, review, etc...
08:47   somerville32    Increasing xubuntu developer visibility would most certainly be helpful in regards to moral.
08:47   j1mc    it doesn't have to be all the time... but ... like i said earlier, it is weird to not even know who the core people are.
08:47   j1mc    and you do so much awesome work.  :)
08:48   somerville32    I think participation in some of the discussion (either putting out unproductive ones or supporting/steering productive ones) would be a plus.
=== j1mc agrees
08:48   somerville32    I'd like there to be less of a division
08:48   somerville32    And I think it may have been created by the unproductive discussions that occur on -devel sometimes.
08:49   j1mc    yes...
08:51   mr_pouit        Yes, sometimes the xubuntu-devel ml tends to become xubuntu-users :]
08:51   mr_pouit        j1mc: ok for the note, I'll tru to do that
08:51   mr_pouit        *try
08:51   somerville32    splendid
08:51   j1mc    :)
08:53   somerville32    mr_pouit: So, what are your feelings on the xubuntu-documentation-browser spec?
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08:56   fijam   hello
08:56   somerville32    Hello
08:56   fijam   it's been a while
08:57   somerville32    I'm sure it has
08:57   j1mc    i've got to go, everyone.  thanks for time out of your days today... i think it was a helpful discussion.
08:57   mr_pouit        This could be useful, but it would be worth knowing if people are really bored by Firefox slowness
08:58   somerville32    mr_pouit: I know I am.
08:58   vidd_laptop     board??
08:58   somerville32    j1mc: ttyl
08:58   vidd_laptop     frustrated...but never bored =]
08:58   j1mc    bye!
08:59   fijam   somerville32: a lot of things popped up and I was unable to contribute to the documentation development
08:59   vidd_laptop     mr_pouit, are there plans to replace/trim FF in the near future?
08:59   somerville32    fijiam: Tis is ok :)
09:00   mr_pouit        We should see this with Jani, but I don't think so
09:00   fijam   but now, once the exams are over I should have enough time to help
09:00   mr_pouit        (at least not for gutsy)
09:00   somerville32    fijam: J1mc and Admiral_Chigaco are really leading the way. They'd be super happy to get your assistance, I know they would.
09:01   vidd_laptop     btw somerville32: i dont really have the time or know-how to work with getting the xfburn issue resolved....
=== vidd_laptop has no idea where to even begin
09:01   vidd_laptop     =\
09:02   mr_pouit        vidd_laptop: you can speak with pygi from the ubuntu burning team
09:02   fijam   somerville32:  I'll let them know that I am 'available'
09:02   somerville32    awesome :)
09:03   vidd_laptop     mr_pouit, and how would i do that...is it a mailing list....forum...???
09:03   somerville32    a person
09:04   mr_pouit        He should be on #ubuntu-burning, but you can also mail him (https://launchpad.net/~mario-danic)
09:04   vidd_laptop     somerville32, i KNOW its a person...but do i contact them via telephone, e-mail, irc?
09:04   somerville32    Ah. See above ^^
09:05   vidd_laptop     bookmarked
09:06   somerville32    I'd be interested in taking a look at xfburn too
09:06   vidd_laptop     its an awesome app...clean looking....
09:07   vidd_laptop     and LITE....
09:07   vidd_laptop     does everything but burn ISO's
09:07   somerville32    And hopefully we'll fix that :]
09:07   vidd_laptop     unfortunantly....burning ISO's is all i use a burner for
09:08   vidd_laptop     somerville32, have you ever burned an ISO from command line? and did it work correctly?
09:09   somerville32    No, I've never done that.
=== gpocentek already did it
09:10   vidd_laptop     cuzz if burning from command line works correctly...then it SHOULD simply be a matter of coding the UI button for "burn ISO" to call the proper CLI command
09:11   vidd_laptop     gpocentek, what is the proper commands?
09:11   gpocentek       that's what xfburn does
09:11   gpocentek       cdrecord
09:11   gpocentek       well, now it's wodim
09:11   vidd_laptop     gpocentek, but why does it not do it correctly then?
09:11   mr_pouit        cdrecord has many issues
09:12   gpocentek       vidd_laptop: no idea
09:12   vidd_laptop     gnomebaker is a front end for cdrecord....and it does not have this issue....
09:12   vidd_laptop     or does gnomebaker use something else for ISO images?
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09:13   mr_pouit        I think all cd recording apps still use cdrecord
09:13   mr_pouit        (except brasero in gutsy that switched to libburnia)
09:13   fijam   brasero may use libburn afaik
09:13   fijam   yeah
09:14   vidd_laptop     mr_pouit, what are the requirements for brasero?
09:14   mr_pouit        libgnome and gstreamer
09:16   vidd_laptop     gsteamer is alot of overhead....and will take out gxine....our default media player
09:16   mr_pouit        yes
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09:17   Burgundavia     gstreamer also gets you the autocodec stuff, however
09:17   vidd_laptop     Burgundavia, i would rather install libxine-extracodecs
09:17   vidd_laptop     get all the goodies without all the bloat
09:17   Burgundavia     do we have definitive proof that gstreamer apps are more "bloated'
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09:18   vidd_laptop     just check the memory footprint
09:18   vidd_laptop     and then we would also have to replace our media player
09:19   vidd_laptop     gxine cant run on gstreamer
09:19   Burgundavia     right
09:19   mr_pouit        and find a gstreamer based player without gnome deps
09:19   Burgundavia     heh
09:19   Burgundavia     ok, just playing devils advocate
09:19   vidd_laptop     and i dont recall there being any app anywhere near as lite-weight as gxine that runs gstreamer
09:20   vidd_laptop     libburnia.....
=== vidd_laptop is off to see if he can fine a tiny bruner that can run it....without needing half the repository list to run
09:22   vidd_laptop     *burner
09:22   somerville32    Splendid
09:23   mr_pouit        in gtk2 this is going to be hard... afaik, only brasero ans xfburn are still maintained
09:23   mr_pouit        *and
09:24   somerville32    Why is brasero out of the game?
09:24   vidd_laptop     it needs gsteamer
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09:25   vidd_laptop     interesting....pygi runs the mailing list for the libburn-cutters
09:26   vidd_laptop     is libburnia in the repo's?
09:26   mr_pouit        yes
09:26   mr_pouit        libburn & libisofs
09:26   somerville32    Welp, I think this here would be perfect discussion for #xubuntu-devel
09:27   somerville32    Now that Burgundavia is here, I'd really like to hear from him :)
09:27   Burgundavia     right
09:28   Burgundavia     nobody else objects?
09:28   vidd_laptop     none here
09:29   Burgundavia     ok
09:29   Burgundavia     well, somerville32 asked me to come and chat with you guys about community building
09:29   somerville32    \o/
09:29   Burgundavia     the key part of community building is basically that you need to provide things for people to do
09:29   Burgundavia     the "if you build it, they will come" or "nothing breeds success like success"
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 20 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Jun 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 21 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu US LoCo Team | 26 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
09:30   Burgundavia     what you need to ask is "if I were a new contributor, how do I get involved?
09:30   Burgundavia     "
09:30   Burgundavia     to answer that, you need a bunch of small tasks to get people going
09:31   Burgundavia     for instance, the bug team has got their "bitesize tasks" or KDE's Junior Jobs
09:32   Burgundavia     in that vein, here are some concrete ideas (I have no idea if you doing any of these or not)
09:32   Burgundavia     * tag xubuntu specific bugs as bitesized and then publish that list
09:32   Burgundavia     * get people blogging on Planet Ubuntu about the latest Xubuntu news (new programs, new artwork, etc)
09:33   Burgundavia     * define a few high levels goals for the next release
09:33   Burgundavia     some people are drawn in by big ideas, others by small stuff
09:34   Burgundavia     does any of this make sense?
09:34   vidd_laptop     Burgundavia, now that you said it...its super obvious!
09:34   vidd_laptop     =]
=== somerville32 nods.
09:34   Burgundavia     now, all of this takes work, time that is not going to actual development
09:35   Burgundavia     that might feel like a waste (I just want to fix this bug, not tell somebody else how to do it) but it well worth the effort to teach people
09:35   vidd_laptop     Burgundavia, so true....
09:36   Burgundavia     so, I kind of mixed in marketing xubuntu in, my 2nd point
09:36   Burgundavia     an important thing to remember, is that whenever you promote or talk about Xubuntu, you need to talk about how people can help
09:37   Burgundavia     for instance, when Jono is good at this
09:37   Burgundavia     look at his blog posts about Jokosher for examples
09:37   Burgundavia     or my blog about OpenStreetMap
09:38   Burgundavia     for instance, you were talking about burners earlier
09:38   Burgundavia     one of you could write a blog about how you are searching for a burner and what the pitfalls you have run into
09:39   Burgundavia     at the end of the blog post, ask for peoples help in solving this problem
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09:40   Burgundavia     that make sense?
09:40   fijam   certainly
09:40   Burgundavia     another thing to realize is that you are going to loose people and gain people
09:40   vidd_laptop     it makes sense....
09:41   Burgundavia     being a volunteer project, the number of people you have is going to ebb and wain. The key part is that you attracting new people
09:41   Burgundavia     from a development POV, unloading as much work on other people is also a good idea
09:41   Burgundavia     thus working with upstream GNOME to make their apps run on stock GTK is thus a good idea
09:42   mr_pouit        Jani has some problems to convince upstream to get his patches
09:42   Burgundavia     some of that might require you do the hard work of integrating the patches and again, it is all about personal relationships
09:43   Burgundavia     brb
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09:44   Burgundavia     back
09:44   Burgundavia     any other questions?
09:45   somerville32    Aye
09:46   somerville32    I'd like to know how to reduce the "running around with out heads chopped off" symptom that is a result of guidance and leadership.
09:46   somerville32    err.. lack of
09:46   Burgundavia     ah, ok
09:47   Burgundavia     well, the best way to solve that problem is to do something :)
09:47   Burgundavia     have a meeting wherein you define a few high level goals for the next release and then agree on them
09:47   Burgundavia     voila! instant leadership, because you all know what you are trying to do
09:48   Burgundavia     a goal might be: find and implement a burning app
09:48   Burgundavia     or: improve basic documentation to make certain all major apps are documented
09:48   vidd_laptop     somerville32, maybe we should put a "goal checklist" on the xubuntu site....
09:49   Burgundavia     yes, that would be awesome
09:49   Burgundavia     how many of you have blogs and are on planet ubuntu?
09:49   vidd_laptop     complete with Task Leader column (with e-mail address)
09:49   vidd_laptop     not i
09:49   somerville32    I don't but I guess I should
09:49   Burgundavia     get one and get it on planet ubuntu and start blogging
09:49   fijam   btw is the xubuntu.wordpress.com an (at-least-partially)official blog? It seems to be somewhat abandoned.
=== somerville32 nods.
09:50   somerville32    no, it is not
09:50   Burgundavia     talk about the latest development news, new deployments, etcx.
09:51   vidd_laptop     somerville32, i will draw up a template for a "goal checklist" page....
09:51   fijam   ah, ok. It is still a top result on google for 'xubuntu blog' query. Maybe something should be done in order to change it. The official xubuntu site is rather 'static' IMO.
09:51   Burgundavia     ah, yep
09:51   somerville32    I understand that certain individuals have been able to be accelerated in terms of acceptance to MOTU. Would that be available to xubuntu individuals who have demonstrated proficiencies?
09:51   Burgundavia     a static website means nobody will visit it
09:51   Burgundavia     for MOTU, you need to talk to the tech board
09:52   Burgundavia     for ubuntu membership, I suggest you learn from the Brazillian team
09:53   Burgundavia     when one of their own comes up, they all comment on that persons user page
09:53   Burgundavia     it makes it so much easier to figure out whether or not to approve peope
=== somerville32 nods.
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09:54   somerville32    I think getting more "xubuntu" ubuntu members would be an A1 idea
09:54   vidd_laptop     ubuntu membership?
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09:55   Burgundavia     for that, you need a council
09:55   vidd_laptop     what is that?
09:55   Burgundavia     much like the Kubuntu one
09:55   DarkSun88       Hi all
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09:56   somerville32    Hiya
09:56   fijam   hello
09:56   somerville32    Burgundavia: I don't think we really need a council at this time though, eh?
09:56   somerville32    We only have a dozen or so people involved directly
09:56   somerville32    (if that)
09:56   Burgundavia     I would have to seriously look at how many people you have
09:56   Burgundavia     you need a certain critical mass
09:56   somerville32    We don't have that :/
09:56   Burgundavia     make certain you have all your core contributors as members first
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09:57   mr_pouit        there are ~100 members in the ~xubuntu-users team
10:01   vidd_laptop     mr_pouit, is that the mailing list?
10:01   somerville32    No
10:01   mr_pouit        No, this is a Launchpad team: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/
10:01   vidd_laptop     hrm... i never heard of it b4....
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10:04   Burgundavia     anyway, you should probably wrap this meeting up
10:04   Burgundavia     if you want to chat with me privately or at another meeting, I can do that
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10:05   somerville32    Alrighty. Thanks a bunch :)
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10:08   fijam   If i might suggest something at this point...
10:09   fijam   IMO it should be taken under serious consideration how to make the xubuntu website more attractive to the visitors
10:10   somerville32    We're implementing a new theme
10:10   fijam   when the official website doesn't draw attention and updates every major release, there is a feeling that 'everything is happening behind the scenes'
10:10   fijam   which may be just an antoher factor deterring people from joining the development
10:11   fijam   s/antoher/another
=== somerville32 nods.
10:11   Burgundavia     yep
10:11   fijam   the form is undoubtly important, but the content is what is desperately needed ;)
10:15   fijam   maybe this is a topic for another meeting
10:15   Burgundavia     yes :)
10:16   Burgundavia     given you are at 3hours and counting
10:16   somerville32    :]
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10:19   fijam   right, thanks for the meeting, and see you later
10:19   Burgundavia     cya

MeetingLogs/Xubuntu_2007-06-16 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:28:16 by localhost)