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Ubuntu Open Week - Kubuntu Q&A - RichardJohnson & JonathanRiddell - Wed, Apr 29th, 2009

UTC -4

(03:03:40 PM) Riddell: Good evening friends
(03:04:04 PM) Riddell: me and nixternal here have been scheduled for a Kubuntu Q & A session
(03:04:07 PM) nixternal: howdy from Chicago! No cases of Swine Flu here yet!
(03:04:20 PM) Riddell: I already  had lots of good questions on monday, but now we need lots more
(03:04:41 PM) Riddell: let's introduce ourselves
(03:04:46 PM) Riddell: nixternal: who are you and what  do you do?
(03:05:17 PM) nixternal: My name is Richard Johnson, I am a wanna-be developer here in the Ubuntu world, a wanna-be KDE developer as well, and I just want to hang on the coat tails of rockstars! :)
(03:05:30 PM) nixternal: as you can see, I am a clown :)
(03:05:46 PM) nixternal: who are you Riddell, and what do you do?
(03:05:46 PM) sebsebseb: nixternal: ok well I hope you contribute to KDE3 in Ubuntu then :)  ,because only one guy is making that, and  KDE3 is so nice compared to KDE4
(03:06:02 PM) vvargas_ is now known as kamusin
(03:06:03 PM) sebsebseb: nixternal: KDE3 in  Ubuntu can do with some more developers
(03:06:12 PM) ScottK: sebsebseb: Please not in this channel.
(03:06:20 PM) sebsebseb: ScottK: oh ok
(03:06:36 PM) Riddell: hi nixternal, I'm Jonathan Riddell, one of the original Kubuntu developers
(03:06:39 PM) nixternal: sebsebseb: I^Wwe will talk about that maybe now that you brought it up :)
(03:06:43 PM) RoozbehOnline is now known as Roozbeh|Away
(03:06:54 PM) nixternal: Riddell: that is cool, but if you aren't the original one, then who was?
(03:06:57 PM) sebsebseb: nixternal: ok :)
(03:07:01 PM) ***nixternal don't think many people know that to be honest
(03:07:10 PM) Riddell: I work for Canonical and spend most of my days packaging, fixing bugs, testing CDs and generally making sure Kubuntu happens
(03:08:03 PM) Riddell: nixternal: amu and chris halls (haggai) were also there at the start.  amu did the Gnoppix live CD back then and haggai works for a support company that likes to help and use KDE
(03:08:22 PM) nixternal: groovy, shall we answer some questions now?
(03:08:38 PM) Riddell: let's
(03:09:11 PM) ^arky^: hi I am arky , I work with braille without borders in India
(03:09:15 PM) nixternal: OK, do we have a question pasting ninja, or do I have to hit ctrl+n, highlight, ctrl+p, paste?
(03:09:25 PM) jcastro: nixternal: it's all you. :D
(03:09:32 PM) nixternal: dangit!
(03:09:43 PM) ***nixternal taks off the lazy outfit
(03:09:53 PM) nixternal: [ boredandb] QUESTION: nixternal: when will we see that tape of you and jcastro in the hotel room? You know...
(03:10:00 PM) nixternal: d'oh! I thought that was a real question
(03:10:05 PM) nixternal: dang you boredandblogging!
(03:10:13 PM) jcastro: <ScorpKing> QUESTION: what is the difference between the networkmanager used in ubuntu and the one used in kubuntu? support for 3G modems are not the same for example. will the same functionality be implemented in kubuntu soon?
(03:10:14 PM) Riddell: never stay in a hotel room with jcastro, you'll end up with a killer cold
(03:10:42 PM) nixternal: Riddell: or a very damaging picture
(03:10:51 PM) Riddell: ScorpKing: it's the same backend
(03:11:04 PM) Riddell: but for reasons I havn't worked out, network manager is hideously complex to make a frontend for
(03:11:17 PM) Riddell: and the KDE 4 frontend  is not in great shape
(03:11:30 PM) Riddell: it mostly works for most people but often it doesn't
(03:11:41 PM) Riddell: it's the most notable problem with Kubuntu 9.04
(03:12:08 PM) Riddell: we're testing an update which is in the ~kubuntu-experimental PPA, please give it a shot and report results on bug 339313
(03:12:22 PM) ScorpKing: Riddell: ok thanks. will do
(03:12:35 PM) nixternal: [      homy] QUESTION: except from firefox looking really ugly in kde, in is a great browser, better than konqueror. Why can't you use firefox in kubuntu then? (without it being ugly)
(03:12:42 PM) Riddell: unfortunately there's only a couple of people upstream working on it and they're both very busy w ith other things
(03:13:20 PM) Riddell: nixternal: your turn to answer :)
(03:13:21 PM) chmj: hmm
(03:13:22 PM) chmj: hey Riddell
(03:13:27 PM) nixternal: homy: we are looking at other alternatives for a browser in Karmic...though last time I checked, Firefox wasn't on there
(03:13:30 PM) Roozbeh|Away is now known as RoozbehOnline
(03:13:41 PM) nixternal: as for the ugliness, I think it is actually looking much better in 9.04 than it has in the past
(03:13:52 PM) c is now known as Guest25302
(03:14:04 PM) Guest25302 is now known as stoffel
(03:14:04 PM) nixternal: there was talk about a kubufox, and actually at one point someone was working on it, though I don't know its status just yet
(03:14:27 PM) nixternal: there is^Wwas a project in mozilla for a Qt version of Firefox, but last I checked that wasn't going anywhere either
(03:14:33 PM) Riddell: we're a KDE distro so we only ship KDE or Qt apps (same as Ubuntu Desktop only ships Gnome/GTK apps)
(03:14:59 PM) Riddell: and we don't actually have room on the CD for a whole other set of libraries apart from anything else
(03:15:12 PM) nixternal: I am with you though, I wasn't a Firefox fan until KDE 4 was released and I was pretty much forced to use it over Konqi due to issues...I would like to see Firefox in the list of possible default browsers in Kubuntu, but that is something we will discuss at UDS next month
(03:15:17 PM) Riddell: you're perfectly free to install firefox yourself if that's what you like to use
(03:15:32 PM) nixternal: and then what Riddell just said, as I was going to cover that next :)
(03:15:52 PM) nixternal: next?
(03:16:02 PM) Riddell: 20:08 < mariamne> QUESTION: why should I help Kubuntu?
(03:16:15 PM) nixternal: you skipped one :)
(03:16:36 PM) nixternal: oh maybe you didn't, I might have skipped one
(03:17:04 PM) nixternal: mariamne: the question should be, "why shouldn't I help Kubuntu?" :)
(03:17:13 PM) Riddell: it's the best way to get the bugs which annoy you fixed
(03:17:50 PM) Riddell: for students working with free software is the  best way to learn about developing on computers
(03:18:05 PM) nixternal: there is no reason not to help Kubuntu...the awesome thing about Kubuntu is the community is a part of the great Ubuntu community, however we are a smaller footprint, and to me it seems that it might actually be easier to get involved, and who knows, in a week or so you will be the head ninja!
(03:18:17 PM) Riddell: Kubuntu has the best community ever, I love them all
(03:18:24 PM) nixternal: ditto
(03:18:52 PM) Riddell: and it's the easiest way to change the world, international freedom fighting has never been so fun to get into
(03:19:08 PM) nixternal: and lets not forget that by helping Kubuntu, there is a great chance that you end up helping KDE as well, therefor affecting a much larger audience
(03:19:57 PM) nixternal: one little known fact is that by helping Kubuntu, you are immune to the swine flu!
(03:20:05 PM) nixternal: next?
(03:20:06 PM) Riddell: 20:10 < Ireyon> QUESTION: how to change the kde keyboard layout? the system settings don't offer such a feature and the xorg.conf doesn't seem to accept such entries.
(03:20:34 PM) Riddell: I'm pretty certain system settings does let you do that
(03:20:38 PM) nixternal: Ireyon: care to ellaborate a little there?
(03:20:54 PM) nixternal: what are you trying to change that system settings isn't offering?
(03:21:25 PM) nixternal: Ireyon: feel free to answer that one in here if you would like
(03:22:06 PM) Riddell: lets move on in the mean time
(03:22:08 PM) Riddell: 20:11 < genii> QUESTION:  GTK apps like Firefox usually look like hell in KDE. Will we see some tools to make them less horrible like an improved versions of packages like gtk-qt-engine-kde4, or (preferably) QT ports?
(03:22:10 PM) nixternal: right
(03:22:39 PM) Riddell: at Kubuntu we can't be held accountable for the poor quality of GTK
(03:23:02 PM) Riddell: I don't know why GTK insists on shipping ugly themes by default but it's a hassle for us since we seem to get the blame
(03:23:31 PM) nixternal: I do think GTK apps are looking better in Jaunty though, as I use Firefox, Gimp, Gwibber, and others quite a bit
(03:23:39 PM) Riddell: gtk-qt-engine-kde4 is a bit buggy so we replaced it with gtk-qtcurve in jaunty which works well but isn't as slick looking
(03:24:20 PM) Riddell: 20:11 < shadowland> QUESTION: What's the future look like for Exchange support in any KDE mail app?
(03:24:21 PM) nixternal: as for a qt port of something like firefox, there was work on it, but it seems to have become a bit stale
(03:24:31 PM) nixternal: openexchange!!!
(03:24:49 PM) Riddell: I believe the kdepim team is working with the openexchange people on that
(03:25:16 PM) Riddell: kdepim gets funding from the likes  of the german government for stuff like that so I expect it'll come soon
(03:25:29 PM) nixternal: right now there is a project called openexchange which is starting to show its face in projects such as Evolution...right now the KDEPIM team is working very closely with the project in hoping to bring a solid MAPI solution to KDE, though we probably won't see an official release until the 4.4 time frame, as the 4.3 feature freeze is upon us
(03:26:03 PM) Riddell: 20:11 < mervaka> QUESTION: what advantages does QT offer over GTK?
(03:26:33 PM) Riddell: somebody hold me back or I may get opinionated here
(03:26:48 PM) nixternal: hehe
(03:27:00 PM) nixternal: Qt and GTK are without a doubt 2 of the greatest UI toolkits out there today
(03:27:08 PM) Riddell: Gnome is a fine desktop with lots of good ideas, but GTK I'll happily flame any day
(03:27:30 PM) Riddell: The power and intuitiveness of Qt's APIs is second to none
(03:28:09 PM) Riddell: and it gets better with every release with tonnes of new features
(03:28:18 PM) nixternal: like Riddell said, we might be opinionated a bit, but I will try to refrain from that....Honestly I think a big advantage with Qt is how easy it is to create a cross platform application, and KDE 4 is proving that...as it isn't only available for Linux/UNIX anymore, as it is also available for Windows and Mac, though not the desktop, just the applications right now
(03:28:36 PM) Riddell: it's graphics power is especially good, that's why stuff like Plasma is so blingy
(03:29:07 PM) nixternal: companies like Adobe, the people who create Nero, and even NASA seem to feel the same way, as they have chose to utilize Qt in some of their applications
(03:29:11 PM) Riddell: I've ported quite a few apps from gtk to qt/kde and the code just gets simpler and easier to read when you do it
(03:29:17 PM) nixternal: now if we can only open up their source :)
(03:29:41 PM) Riddell: ah well, as it happens Qt Software are in the process of doing exactly that
(03:29:55 PM) nixternal: Riddell: I love the way you just took my bait with that :)
(03:30:03 PM) mervaka: but isn't GTK cross platform too?
(03:30:08 PM) nixternal: yes it is
(03:30:52 PM) nixternal: now how easy it is to create a single app that is as easy to do with Qt and have it build and install on a Windows or Mac desktop, that I don't know
(03:30:53 PM) Riddell: they've changed to git and are doing the legal foo to be able to publish all their branches and let other people contribute directly on  in  branches
(03:31:04 PM) nixternal: LGPL FOR THE WIN!!! :)
(03:31:24 PM) Riddell: 20:13 < ScorpKing> QUESTION: will we see support for animated themes in plasma in the near future?
(03:31:43 PM) Riddell: I don't understand that, not sure I want my desktop to have constant animation
(03:31:46 PM) nixternal: I saw a blog post about that recently
(03:32:13 PM) nixternal: I don't know if we will see an entirely animated desktop, though it is possible
(03:32:19 PM) mervaka left the room.
(03:32:34 PM) Eveready: possibl;e today, or possibly implemented?
(03:32:47 PM) ScorpKing: a lot of new kde users actually ask that question. what need to be done to implement something like that?
(03:32:59 PM) nixternal: possible to create today, the implemented part I don't know about...something I would have to ask upstream
(03:33:27 PM) Riddell: 20:14 < sebsebseb> Question:  How long will KDE3 be an option in  Ubuntu?  How to get more development help for that one guy that decided to resurcete KDE from the dead in 9.04?   As in it wasn't in the repo in 8.10, because lack of developers.
(03:33:36 PM) nixternal: just asked upstream, if I get an answer I will let you guys know, cool?
(03:33:50 PM) ScorpKing: nixternal: thanks
(03:34:14 PM) Riddell: sebsebseb: KDE 3 is not being developed any more, if we kept including it in ubuntu nothing would change or get better
(03:34:34 PM) mark726: :(
(03:34:45 PM) Riddell: there is a KDE 3 remix which was done by a hard working sole and 8.04 is still supported with KDE 3
(03:34:57 PM) sebsebseb: yep
(03:35:15 PM) nixternal: also, I am sure our single Kubuntu KDE 3 ninja would love your help :)
(03:35:22 PM) Riddell: so if you're not happy with KDE 4 yet go with one of those, and if you want to help him out with the remixes I'm sure he's welcome it
(03:35:47 PM) sebsebseb: nixternal: I would maybe, but I am still really a user :)
(03:36:06 PM) nixternal: sebsebseb: you can always help, no matter your experience level!
(03:36:20 PM) nixternal: join #kubuntu-devel if you are interested..the long KDE sole is currently afk
(03:36:25 PM) nixternal: s/long/lone
03:36:34 PM) Riddell: but KDE 4 is the future, it's been a painful transition but the platform is the best there is and the few remaining missing features will get shaken out toot sweet
(03:36:50 PM) sebsebseb: nixternal: can't really help with much non code stuff I think, but maybe I am wrong
(03:37:02 PM) Riddell: testing is mostly what's neede
(03:37:09 PM) Riddell: we never have enough CD testers for example
(03:37:24 PM) Riddell: anyone who's installed an OS can do that
(03:37:29 PM) sebsebseb: oh ok :)  yeah I like to  get stuff early and test
(03:37:40 PM) Riddell: 20:15 < awkorama> QUESTION: If I were convinced to use KDE, how would you convince me to use kubuntu?
(03:38:06 PM) dwidmann_: Riddell: need some sort of mailing list or RSS feed for that ... something to remind people to go test ISOs
(03:38:29 PM) JontheEchidna: if you subscribe to Riddell's blog, he usually says when things need testing
(03:38:42 PM) JontheEchidna: and I'm guessing his blog probably has an RSS feed
(03:39:43 PM) nixternal: awkorama: that is a tough question...the great thing about the free software world is your choice, and i respect that fact that you choose kde, gnome, xfce, or any others
(03:40:01 PM) Riddell: awkorama: Kubuntu has all the great advantages of any Ubuntu distro, a speedy release schedule, simple one CD install, fine selection of applications by default
(03:40:14 PM) Riddell: we also have KDE packages available on the day of release
(03:40:24 PM) nixternal: as for convincing....hrmm....it is a great system, great community...added to what Riddell just said as well
(03:40:40 PM) Riddell: and for developers and hardcore fans we have trunk snapshots from Project Neon in a Launchpad PPA updated frequently
(03:41:11 PM) Riddell: also we have hot tub parties, no other distro offers that
(03:41:36 PM) Riddell: 20:19 < gregknicholson> QUESTION: Has WebKit been merged back into Konqueror yet? (I vaguely recall hearing somewhere that this was the plan.)
(03:41:40 PM) nixternal: OH NO, NOT THE HOT TUB PARTIES!
(03:42:05 PM) Riddell: nixternal: make sure you pack your swimming trunks for the summit next month
(03:42:48 PM) Riddell: gregknicholson: no, which is a bit of a shame.  there's a webkitkde kpart which you can install to make konqueror use webkit but it's not well integrated
(03:43:03 PM) Riddell: it's making us look at alternatives
(03:43:23 PM) Riddell: the KHTML developers would point  out that KHTML supports things that webkit doesn't
(03:43:39 PM) Riddell: webkit is being used throughout KDE now though, plasma for example is a big user of it
(03:44:13 PM) Riddell: 20:20 < francisco_t> QUESTION: What is the status with buggy drivers, video cards and kde4?
(03:44:33 PM) nixternal: the hardware manufacturers aren't fixing them quick enough?'
(03:45:04 PM) Riddell: francisco_t: jaunty's X drivers aren't great in my anecdotal experience.  the intel one seems to leak memory quite a bit
(03:45:31 PM) Riddell: it might work with UXA, or it might not depending on your luck.  I've read complaints that it breaks Qt apps and that it breaks GTK apps, it's all a bit random
(03:45:51 PM) Riddell: not my area though, moan to the Ubuntu X team :)
(03:46:10 PM) Riddell: 20:21 < dwidmann_> Question: What are the main things on the table for Kubuntu Karmic?
(03:46:20 PM) nixternal: Daviey: hot tub parties!
(03:46:31 PM) nixternal: err, dwidmann_ ^^ :)
(03:46:46 PM) Eveready: lol
(03:47:28 PM) nixternal: dwidmann_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuKarmicSpecs  <- there is the list we are compiling now for Karmic
(03:47:52 PM) Riddell: UDS is next month and we'll get together then and write up those specs in full with what we plan
(03:47:57 PM) nixternal: all of it will be discussed during UDS, and if you can't make it physically, the sessions are typically live online for you to join
(03:48:18 PM) Riddell: or come to Barcelona and say hi
(03:48:40 PM) ***nixternal won't be there, but if you want to come to Chicago and say hi, I am game, first round is on you! :)
(03:49:02 PM) Riddell: KDE 4.3 of course, hopefully fixing bugs, getting rid of the last KDE 3 apps, finishing off some of our development stuff like printing and probably starting some more
(03:49:34 PM) Riddell: 20:24 < homy> QUESTION: Instead of helping kubuntu, shouldn't you rather help kde upstream directly, as kubuntu will also directly profit?
(03:49:54 PM) Riddell: as it happens, we do
(03:49:56 PM) nixternal: We do...I think more than half of us on the Kubuntu team are upstream developers
(03:50:11 PM) nixternal: I typically work in the "System Help" area
(03:50:26 PM) nixternal: though I am planning on expanding the areas I work in with KDE in the near future
(03:50:33 PM) Riddell: most of what Kubuntu does is packaging and testing
(03:51:01 PM) Riddell: but there are some areas that KDE developers don't care much about, such as printing (geeks don't print but as a distro we know we have lots of users who do)
(03:51:12 PM) nixternal: also, we tend to help Debian and other distros as well when they need help, because all of the distros can help make KDE better, as well as make each other better
(03:51:19 PM) Riddell: so we develop the printer setup and status tools and those go into KDE
(03:51:29 PM) nixternal: and System Settings
(03:51:47 PM) Riddell: there's user config tool too which has been worked on from the kubuntu side for similar reasons
(03:52:38 PM) Riddell: < T0m4rn0ld> QUESTION: Which KDE and Kubuntu release will make KDE4 really shine? (As in all apps mature and ported and everything polished and websites working)
(03:53:16 PM) nixternal: 4.5! Just kidding...someone in the blogosphere actually wrote that recently and I found it comical....
(03:53:45 PM) nixternal: I think in 4.3 you will see even more polish, but I feel that starting from right now, each release is going to make KDE 4 really shine
(03:54:02 PM) Riddell: I think KDE 4 desktop does really shine now, but some apps are still working on the transition
(03:54:20 PM) Riddell: Amarok 2 is fabulous, but still misses a few important features.   2.1 is looking great though
(03:54:21 PM) nixternal: functionality is being added, stability is getting a great deal of attention, and memory management is also being looked at
(03:54:46 PM) Riddell: KOffice 2 is also starting to get really nice, Krita will soon be a real photoshop killer
(03:55:11 PM) nixternal: yes, Krita is amazing...I turned an eye to it in the past, but man I was really impressed with it
(03:55:16 PM) Riddell: for Kubuntu, I'm saying that 10.04 (probably next LTS) will be a work of perfection
(03:55:37 PM) nixternal: now we just need tutorials out there for it, because I am horrible with graphics unless someone teaches me how to do it, and even then my graphics don't turn out as good as theirs does :)
(03:56:25 PM) nixternal: Kubuntu Leaping Leopard LTS (to many L's, though there are to many K's right now) :p
(03:57:06 PM) jcastro: 5 minute warning!
(03:57:26 PM) AntORG_ is now known as AntORG
(03:57:41 PM) Riddell: I think we're about done
(03:57:42 PM) MagicFab: o/
(03:57:57 PM) dwidmann_: KKK ...  my oh my
(03:58:23 PM) Riddell: if you want to join the party and help with Kubuntu  #kubuntu-devel is the place to go.  if you need some help #kubuntu
(03:58:42 PM) nixternal: THANKS EVERYONE! great questions!
(03:58:49 PM) ***Riddell high fives nixternal