UbuntuGuru

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(04:05:02 PM) MagicFab: Hi All, Fabian Rodriguez here. I work at Canonical's Global Support Services center in Montreal, Canada as a senior support analyst and technical trainer for support & server stuff since November 2006. I am mostly interested in free technologies advocacy (including formats, content, licencing) & training for new users, with an emphasis on security.
(04:05:13 PM) Pirate_Hunter: hi new here but what is this irc about?
(04:05:28 PM) MagicFab: More about me: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MagicFab
(04:05:36 PM) sebsebseb: Pirate_Hunter: I think it's about promoting Ubuntu to people
(04:05:37 PM) MagicFab: Glad to see so many people attending Open Week sessions! I've enjoyed them too and I hope I get some very hard questions today :)
(04:05:48 PM) sebsebseb: Pirate_Hunter: to the naigbhours or whoever, but without them asking for technical suppourt all the time
(04:06:05 PM) MagicFab: This session log will be at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/UbuntuGuru , for now there is a description.
(04:06:16 PM) MagicFab: Joking aside, I am very interested in the cultural notion that "the computer guy" is always sucked into supporting family & friends for free, with high expectations. I want to beat that and help you convince people that they can handle Ubuntu by themselves. Heck, my parents do!
(04:06:31 PM) MagicFab: Another talk very close to this one is Efrain Valle's With a Little Help tomorrow at 15:00 UTC - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/UbuntuHelp . He'll be going into more detail about all the great Ubuntu support & self-help resources.
(04:06:56 PM) MagicFab: Empower your new Ubuntu converts or prospects to become autonomous and be part of the community (or not!) with some technical support power tricks and key, chosen URLs that will help quickly understand Ubuntu and free software.
(04:06:58 PM) Pirate_Hunter: hmmm until my parents learn to use their mobiles fones properly i disagree with that or even the pc
(04:07:13 PM) jcastro: discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please Pirate_Hunter!
(04:07:13 PM) MagicFab: With that in mmind, I'll take quesitons and try to show some of my stuff along the way.
(04:07:32 PM) Pirate_Hunter: sorry
(04:07:43 PM) ***MagicFab whips
(04:07:52 PM) MagicFab: :)
(04:08:30 PM) Eveready: thx MagicFab. I am that computer guy.
(04:08:39 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: what's at 15:00?
(04:08:51 PM) MagicFab: Eveready, pfew i thought all had gone missing :)
(04:09:07 PM) MagicFab: When advocating Ubuntu or *any* free software, you'll notice it's much easier to **listen** and answers questions than to **propose** and impose information.
(04:09:18 PM) sebsebseb: Eveready: people around here to locked into Windows, would be nice if I could convert people out there more, tried a little in the past, and failed
(04:09:50 PM) MagicFab: <jcastro> MagicFab: QUESTION: Can you give us an idea of the typical problems you guys deal with in support? Like, what are the common ones?
(04:10:23 PM) MagicFab: Well, at commercial support we deal with anything - really. From "I forgot my password" to "Data corruption on RAID" :)
(04:10:31 PM) Eveready: I use windows all the time. Its just that I have to lock it all down. Admin user by default scares me, and is oblivious to most
(04:10:59 PM) MagicFab: jcastro, will you relay / filter questions here or should I ?
(04:11:13 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:11:32 PM) MagicFab: <BugeyeD> QUESTION: how do you recommend handling the situation when your new-convert neighbor buys a windows-only printer or whatnot and whines when it cannot be made to work?
(04:11:53 PM) MagicFab: BugeyeD, I first ask what the return policy is :)
(04:12:17 PM) MagicFab: Printers support is easy to check - linuxprinting.org should give all needed info.
(04:12:50 PM) MagicFab: HPs are best in my opinion - if it doesn't work at all, contact the manufacturer - youd' be surprised how many do have linux support!
(04:13:20 PM) JFo: MagicFab, I'll copy paste for you if you like
(04:13:32 PM) MagicFab: JFo, that would help a lot tx
(04:13:36 PM) JFo: k, np
(04:13:49 PM) JFo: <jussi01> Question: How does canonical deal with Local support - for those who dont speak english?
(04:14:14 PM) MagicFab: Well one of my killer tips is you should NOT rely on Canonical. It doesn't scale. We speak 8 languages in the support center.
(04:14:26 PM) MagicFab: But we can'tpossibliy follow up, escalate bug reports, involve devs, etc.
(04:14:45 PM) MagicFab: Rely *and relay* all you can to local resources. Don't make yourself THE target of unlimited, free, 24/7 support. Set your limits, with helpful phrases like "you know, there is a strong worldwide community of Ubuntu users. We all go by the CoC...". Know you local team website.
(04:15:36 PM) MagicFab: that leads to introducing the Local Community teams. When someone calls us and they speak another language, most of the time they can handle very basic English. Enough to show them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
(04:15:38 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:15:41 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> MagicFab, How would you explain to someone why it would be better to use linux (ubuntu) as the prefered OS instead of windows? this is a question i get all the times and I still ahve not come up with an answer that would convince someone new/computer illiterate
(04:15:57 PM) KickAssClown: Hello
(04:16:41 PM) MagicFab: Pirate_Hunter, It's a typical mistake to advertise something as best or better. It depends on everyone. I explain why it's better for me and my wife who is a 1stgrade t4eacher. How I used to be a Windows power user.
(04:16:52 PM) JFo: KickAssClown, please chat in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
(04:17:11 PM) MagicFab: A great site that helps is http://www.getgnulinux.org/
(04:17:32 PM) MagicFab: I dont'say much ! I ask them GO READ THIS - It's in 8 languages, enough for me... I explain I don't like the "anti-Microsoft" tone (really, I dont) - but I ask them to read it and *THEN* come back to me! They feel like I trust them to understand. And to my amazement, they do!
(04:17:40 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:17:49 PM) JFo: <sebsebseb> QUESTION: I would feel a bit uncomfortable even going to my next door naighbours with an Ubuntu CD, that I don't really know that well, or complete strangers on the same street, and then trying to convert them to Ubuntu. So how could I even get those people interested, without looking like some geek/weirdo?
(04:18:15 PM) bruce89: JFo: don't
(04:18:18 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, then don't ! I used to be that ANNOYING GUY!!!!
(04:18:21 PM) MagicFab: :)
(04:18:30 PM) MagicFab: I said before..
(04:18:32 PM) MagicFab: When advocating Ubuntu or *any* free software, you'll notice it's much easier to **listen** and answers questions than to **propose** and impose information.
(04:18:38 PM) MagicFab: People know I am "working with computers" but when they ask "what do you do for XXXX" or "How do you... XXX" I have a very short answer: "I may not be able to help you. I use mostly free software, I don't use Windows or Mac OS". STOP!!! I don't elaborate.
(04:18:52 PM) MagicFab: So a few people come back and ask more, intrigued. I give them homework.
(04:19:16 PM) bruce89: that's the way I'd approach it
(04:19:22 PM) MagicFab: I make them ask me or *someone else* - here, plug that getgnulinux.org site or your loCo team. Invite them to a *SOCIAL* event, not a technical one.
(04:19:26 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:19:28 PM) JFo: <sebsebseb> QUESTION: Naighbours, how about local schools and such, could I ever get them interested in say Edubuntu, sucessfully?
(04:19:44 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, of course. It's more subtle.
(04:19:49 PM) KickAssClown: I have a simple request. I'm learning W-Grammar, also known as van wijngaarden grammar. I
(04:19:53 PM) MagicFab: I'll start with the famous "in these times... " :)
(04:19:57 PM) jussi01: KickAssClown: chat in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please :)
(04:20:19 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: how it seems in UK, you got to get BECTA won over, or whoever is in charge of the local education athority and what software schools use.
(04:20:28 PM) MagicFab: So, in local organizations, pass some articles about how X saved $$Y with Ubuntu (or else)
(04:20:31 PM) angelblade: if you have a website , http://www.getgnulinux.org/ have link buttons for spread free software
(04:20:40 PM) MagicFab: always BACK OFF, remember the golden rule: wait for them to ask.
(04:20:43 PM) KickAssClown: I'm looking for an appropriate community to discuss it with. I was hoping someone here might be able to direct me to another source if this classroom is not the place to learn such things.
(04:20:57 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: well they woudn't ask, since they don't know I exist, which is also the problem
(04:21:09 PM) MagicFab: Ok, I'll stop the session here if people don't sta in #ubuntu-classroom-chat.
(04:21:18 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:21:20 PM) JFo: <sirderigo> QUESTION: do you think what helping *too much* a newbie will be good or bad for him?
(04:21:25 PM) jussi01: MagicFab: we can +m it if you need
(04:21:27 PM) jcastro: we can +m if you'd like
(04:21:59 PM) MagicFab: sirderigo, interesting :)
(04:22:11 PM) MagicFab: I'd say BAD
(04:22:17 PM) MagicFab: let people explore, give them tools
(04:22:33 PM) MagicFab: Fo rexample, refer to official documentation - https://help.ubuntu.com/ is a *great*, easy starting point for any new comers to Ubuntu, yet many old hats just don't know about it!! As a support analyst, but also as "the computer guy", I *have* to know what the official docs contain - or else die of shame at the next Ubuntu party :)
(04:22:59 PM) MagicFab: Regarding actual support, you need to let people know a few things that are key so they become AUTONOMOUS:
(04:23:19 PM) MagicFab: the more they learn that they can do things on their own, the less you'll hear about them.
(04:23:22 PM) MagicFab: For exeample
(04:23:28 PM) MagicFab: What distribution / version do they have ? You'd be surprised how many people call Canonical commercial support asking about RedHat ! Show your new Ubuntu converts System > Administration > System Monitor. It's an easy, graphical way to know your Ubuntu version, kernel version, memory, etc.
(04:23:42 PM) angelblade left the room ("''=~('(?{'.('+/)@)['^'[]@.]{').'"'.(':@:^,_,>_^[/^[_^^+)_^_'^'{.];@=@_;;{@-{;;-[@;;}').',$/})')").
(04:23:59 PM) MagicFab: sirderigo, so - don't show too much - but also make sure what you show leads to more - without you
(04:24:01 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:24:02 PM) JFo: <awkorama> QUESTION: there is still a huge problem with proprietary formats (namely .doc, docx etc.).. i have no power over many of the users of these formats? ubuntu office suites do not import the formats correctly all the time, what is the solution here? (i heard that windows 7 will include virtualized xp, can this be a clue) ?
(04:24:31 PM) MagicFab: awkorama, there's no simple solution. But here, a few tricks:
(04:24:49 PM) croppa_ is now known as croppa
(04:24:52 PM) MagicFab: - many people use 20 ENTERS instead of proper page breaks - that husrt formatting
(04:25:05 PM) MagicFab: - Fonts are always missing - the msttcorefonts package helps
(04:25:08 PM) MagicFab: etc..
(04:25:29 PM) MagicFab: bottom line - don't deal with it. Be practical and help people understand the problem - not the symptom.
(04:25:49 PM) MagicFab: They wan tto keep saving in .doc ? Fine! Do it. Eventually they'll ask about free formats and then....
(04:26:23 PM) MagicFab: wham! http://www.openformats.org/main
(04:26:27 PM) MagicFab: give them more homework :)
(04:26:46 PM) MagicFab: surely, but slowly - they'll educate themselves. I don't give the moral speech about it anymore.
(04:26:51 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:26:52 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> MagicFab, what about those people that have some pc knowledge but still believe those linux fab like you have to use commands, no gui etc... I had to handle one of them once showed them ubuntu on my system with gui and they were like yeah but i still would have to learn the commands 0.o???
(04:27:23 PM) MagicFab: JFo, getgnulinux.org has great screenshots.
(04:27:44 PM) MagicFab: That's it! Don't spend TIME on them!!! But don't be arrogant heh :)
(04:27:51 PM) MagicFab: I know, though balance !
(04:28:09 PM) MagicFab: Yes, many people still think it's all CLI land over here.
(04:28:17 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:28:17 PM) bruce89: JFo: can't do anything about ignorance
(04:28:19 PM) JFo: <pwnguin> QUESTION: the loco in my community is mostly dead, and geographically sparse. isn't pointing people at a loco without participating in one counterproductive?
(04:28:54 PM) MagicFab: pwnguin, invite them over for coffee. Start small. You know the saying three is company.. :)
(04:29:10 PM) MagicFab: Blog about it, eventually someone else will pick it up.
(04:29:28 PM) MagicFab: It's hard to start from zero, but I've helped many teams do exctly that.
(04:29:59 PM) MagicFab: Worse thing that can happen, you make 1-2 new friends. They tell 2 more.. then next month the meeting is 5 people and so on.
(04:30:11 PM) MagicFab: We had release parties with 4 people in Montreal!!!!
(04:30:13 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:30:14 PM) JFo: <sebsebseb> QUESTION: Helping people in the local community with Ubuntu, that's fun and a nice thing to do, but we live in a society where money is used, so I wonder if I could ever make good money from doing homeuser/consumer Ubuntu and Windows suppourt, focuessing on the software, since I am not much of a hardware guy.
(04:30:44 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, Canonical hired me.
(04:30:46 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:30:54 PM) MagicFab: ok, seriously, I think yes :)
(04:30:59 PM) JFo: <jussi01> Question: What resources exist from Canonical with regard to educating Loco's and individuals?
(04:31:12 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: why? and I looked into that, it seems Canocnical want the best. so like LPI I would have to do maybe, and some Ubuntu quallification etc
(04:31:25 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: plus I thought Canocial mainly did servers
(04:31:42 PM) MagicFab: I used ot be a consultant before joining Canonical. I see many,many opportunities for doing business with Ubuntu. Look up "open source business model" or look me up in #ubuntu-ca :)
(04:31:52 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:32:08 PM) JFo: no more questions just now MagicFab
(04:32:28 PM) ceelight: don't forgt jussi01
(04:32:32 PM) MagicFab: jussi01, regarding individuals, shop.canonical.com has the online Ubuntu Desktop Course for ~U$60 I think.
(04:33:05 PM) Pirate_Hunter: yes there is mine which was not answered i believe?
(04:33:21 PM) MagicFab: and i know there's great activity around education in the community these days. Canonical as a business doesn't focus that much on individuals, however we have 3 people dedicated full time to the communityt (including jcastro who helped organize openweek)
(04:33:49 PM) MagicFab: So I previously mentioned.../
(04:33:59 PM) MagicFab: help your new converts know what Ubuntu version they run. I meant it!
(04:34:12 PM) MagicFab: Related to that...
(04:34:20 PM) MagicFab: What support cycle can you expect? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases - yes, I often forget to tell friends to upgrade before their version reaches EOL!!
(04:34:40 PM) JFo: <pwnguin> QUESTION: you've mentioned locos and canonical support; do you have an opinion of answers.lp.net?
(04:34:46 PM) MagicFab: Keep this in mind.
(04:35:11 PM) MagicFab: Tell your converts to share the version they have in any request for help... for example.. "I use Ubuntu Hardy and... " it's an important detail! This combined with knowing about the official docs... helps a lot
(04:35:42 PM) MagicFab: pwnguin, I love it. I wish it was multilingual! Hopefully LP being open source many people will see value in that _ I know i'll pitch in.
(04:35:56 PM) pwnguin: it's not multilingual?
(04:35:57 PM) MagicFab: I also think Answer is not used to its potential by any stretch!
(04:36:13 PM) MagicFab: pwnguin, the interface is not - and that means it won't get used by many.
(04:36:16 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:36:19 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> MagicFab, I do believe the transition of an os to linux (ubuntu) can be very difficult even knowing most linux os nowaday do provide a desktop environment that people can use with most desirable applications I still believe for someone that is new it can still be hard i.e. i just had to install ubuntu-restricted-extra even knowing rythbox is there, most users would expect to just point it to their music folder and it w
(04:36:19 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> ould play any format
(04:37:20 PM) MagicFab: Pirate_Hunter, interesting. I never install metapackages of non-free stuff. It's not needed. Pick only what you need. When they ask, have your 2 sentence ready on why this happens:
(04:37:31 PM) MagicFab: 1) Manufacturers lack of support
(04:37:34 PM) MagicFab: and/or
(04:37:57 PM) MagicFab: 2) Established "standards" on products/ formats/ software that are patented and as such, not available for free
(04:38:04 PM) MagicFab: I over simplify but yes, be ready.
(04:38:14 PM) MagicFab: THe FSF site may help in understanding some of that
(04:38:41 PM) MagicFab: You may need to tone it down for friends / family though.
(04:38:58 PM) MagicFab: Don't shove things down anyone's throat :) Wait until people notice what you do and answer their questions in a brief, precise way.
(04:39:09 PM) MagicFab: Stick to the original question! I've found the more I talk, the less people listen to me. The more I listen, the more they trust me.
(04:39:17 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:39:18 PM) JFo: <ball> QUESTION: If people do this poorly, isn't there a danger of doing more harm than good to the reputation of Ubuntu?
(04:40:17 PM) MagicFab: ball, well, I am trusting all people here will do a great job. I fyou are not 300% sure about something, saying "I don't know" is also in order.
(04:40:35 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:40:36 PM) JFo: <sirderigo> QUESTION: what do you think what non-official activities in a LoCo are good or bad?
(04:41:40 PM) MagicFab: sirderigo, I wouldn't say anything is "bad" or "good" - but, well, if you organize mushroom hunting parties and call them Ubuntu... at least give out CDs or something :)
(04:42:21 PM) MagicFab: generally speaking I wouldn't put myself ina situation where people or organizations confuse a Loco Team activity with commercial support from Canonical for example.
(04:42:22 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:42:24 PM) JFo: <sebsebseb> QUESTION: I wonder how I could find out who uses Ubuntu around here, or would be interested in using it. I guess I can't really find out easilly since my LOCO is dead or pretty much dead, but as far as I know also somewhere I can't just get to, if it is still running.
(04:42:43 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, which Loco ?
(04:42:54 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: Bristol and Bath one for England
(04:43:20 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, so put up a small flyer, invite a few friends to a local pub. Call it "Ubuntu Bristol" or else.
(04:43:27 PM) sebsebseb: [21:38] <ball> QUESTION: What sebsebseb said
(04:43:28 PM) ball: Is Bath back in Wiltshire now?
(04:43:37 PM) sebsebseb: ball: yeah think so
(04:43:38 PM) MagicFab: Even if only 2 people show up, so be it! In time it will build. You'd be surprised how many people show up.
(04:43:59 PM) ball: sebsebseb: I live in the U.S, but have the same problem: No LoCo
(04:44:04 PM) MagicFab: Of course abuse facebook for that. I have the most ubuntu pimped Facebook account on earth. And no, you can't be my friend.
(04:44:05 PM) MagicFab: :0
(04:44:07 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:44:09 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> MagicFab, i understand that but that options means that people will have to stop using there music files and hope either that the manufacturers someday release music in opensource format which will never happen, it doesnt actually solve the problem, this are people that are coming from another os they have their files and would like to use them instead of being told sorry maybe you can use this file instead. what does
(04:44:09 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> one do in that situation?
(04:44:35 PM) MagicFab: *Disclaimer* I don't know Pirate_Hunter, he or she's just a great Open week participant :)
(04:44:43 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: yeah I turned my Myspace into an about me page and software promotion :d ,but hardly anyone uses Myspace around here anymore, so I basically just like tell people from net to look at it sometimes
(04:44:56 PM) jussi01: sebsebseb: please dont talk here. use #ubuntu-classrom-chat
(04:45:01 PM) sebsebseb: jussi01: I know
(04:45:02 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, stick to u-c-c
(04:45:11 PM) MagicFab: Pirate_Hunter, no!
(04:45:39 PM) MagicFab: Let them find out. Install mp3 support for now. although MP3 patents will soon expire, isn't it ? Research it on Wikipedia.
(04:45:56 PM) MagicFab: Wikipedia is THE most layman's place to read about tech stuff. An dget precise detailslike dates.
(04:46:20 PM) MagicFab: Pirate_Hunter, KNOW your Ogg Audio -playing devices, there are many.
(04:46:51 PM) MagicFab: Don't insist on free formats. People eventually get it. Point them to http://www.openformats.org/en4
(04:47:10 PM) MagicFab: Remember ? HOMEWORK! People understand this stuff, don't underestimate.
(04:47:13 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:47:15 PM) JFo: <akgraner> QUESTION: When a person realizes that using Ubuntu is not just an OS but a whole community, how do you direct their efforts if they are a non-technical person, so they stay energized and excited about Ubuntu? What are the top 3 questions to ask to direct them, their are so many directions you can go in, how do you keep it ordered and not overwhelming?
(04:47:23 PM) MagicFab: akgraner, :)
(04:47:27 PM) akgraner: :)
(04:47:53 PM) MagicFab: You don't. They have to do it on their own. You only have to remain *available*. Don't push it.
(04:47:56 PM) MagicFab: HOWEVER!
(04:48:22 PM) MagicFab: If you're talking about bug reports.. well, show them some you have filed (if you have) . If you are talking about docs, show them..
(04:48:32 PM) MagicFab: well... show them how YOU have remained energized etc.!
(04:49:04 PM) MagicFab: 3 questions for them:
(04:49:09 PM) MagicFab: - Do you have the time ?
(04:49:12 PM) MagicFab: - Do you care ?
(04:49:22 PM) MagicFab: - Do you want me to care and dedicate time to you ?
(04:49:33 PM) MagicFab: Of course dress it up accordingly..
(04:49:35 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:49:37 PM) JFo: <awkorama> QUESTION: Isn't it kind of strange to expect some help from users? I mean, many people view their computers as tools and most tools require no help from them to function.
(04:51:02 PM) MagicFab: awkorama, you know what, most people don't really need help. They need a couple more tools.
(04:51:07 PM) MagicFab: 1) Documentation
(04:51:20 PM) MagicFab: 2) The assurance that you are available (well, you = the community)
(04:51:46 PM) MagicFab: 3) No "RTFM " or "You're stupid, you don't get it" attitude
(04:52:15 PM) awkorama: I meant more like.. How to make someone passionate about contributing to community, I don't cotribute to community of my car manufacturer.. whatever
(04:52:24 PM) MagicFab: Strange ? no. I believe humans rely on peer help to the extent they become autonomous. Software / tech stuff it's not different.
(04:52:38 PM) MagicFab: awkorama, you don't "make" someone passionate.
(04:53:05 PM) MagicFab: You know, I worked in several call centers. I had to sell stuff. When someone didn't want it, we had 3 minutes to determine that. Then, we took another call.
(04:53:19 PM) MagicFab: TAKE THE NEXT UBUNTU CONVERT - don't spend precious time convincin someone.
(04:53:54 PM) MagicFab: Eventually people notice something is off - why is everyone paying for antivirus ? Why can't I find a MS Word french dicitonary at 2AM ? Then they remember you.
(04:53:59 PM) MagicFab: <sirederigo> QUESTION: I don't know how to say no!!! How can i say NO I CAN"T HELP in a nice way ?
(04:54:11 PM) MagicFab: sirderigo, great question (in Spanish, so I translated)
(04:54:15 PM) MagicFab: You NEVER say no.
(04:54:26 PM) MagicFab: You say "sure, post it in a public forum".
(04:54:46 PM) MagicFab: Tell anyone that asks for free help you will give them free, unlimited, 24/7 life support.
(04:54:56 PM) MagicFab: First question they ask, ask them pol;itely to post it in your LoCo Team forum, mailing list or IRC. Make sure you ARE there and reply to it, follow up etc. Then they will notice the rest of the community.
(04:55:26 PM) MagicFab: Then, you pray everyone follows th eCode of Conduct and the sheer love is soooo overwhelming they'll "get it" and contribute back.
(04:55:53 PM) MagicFab: You know what ? I had to tell people how to ask for MY free help.
(04:56:23 PM) MagicFab: on my contact poage I have the most ridiculous rules
(04:56:31 PM) MagicFab: "I don’t reply to any emails that demand free help, are unreadable or impossible to understand, lack any courtesy, are not signed."
(04:56:44 PM) MagicFab: I also set expectations straight
(04:56:48 PM) MagicFab: "I reply to requests as time permits, mostly within 48 hrs. Emergencies and current customers under contract are prioritized, with a response time usually under 4 hours. "
(04:57:07 PM) MagicFab: not asking everyone to be like that :) but within Ubuntu context, you need to barter.
(04:57:27 PM) MagicFab: "You want my free help ? OK, let's make sure it counts for EVERYONE. As a side effect, let's expose it more".
(04:57:29 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:57:31 PM) JFo: <ball> QUESTION: Do we have to get the CBC talking about Ubuntu for civilians to believe it's credible?
(04:58:18 PM) MagicFab: ball, we don't. They will :) In fact they have. ;) Remember, people eventyally notince "something's going on".
(04:58:21 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:58:30 PM) JFo: <pwnguin> QUESTION: ~50 people have rsvp'd for a distro-neutral LUG event within walking distance of my house. what benefits does a loco provide over traditional LUGs? and can they coexist?
(04:59:25 PM) MagicFab: pwnguin, again, none is better or worse. They usually coexist. In fact I had a gentoo guy always on the #ubuntu-co channel - he eventually admitted he was there to "learn how you guys can chat without fighting!".
(04:59:51 PM) MagicFab: Each learn from the other - just don't be pushy and of course ignore non-constructive people - hardest :)
(04:59:52 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(05:00:01 PM) JFo: That looks like the last one MagicFab
(05:00:02 PM) MagicFab: and we have 2 min left I think.
(05:00:29 PM) MagicFab: Ok so one LAST thing!!
(05:00:37 PM) elk80: Will there be a log posted from this session? (sorry to break in!)
(05:00:40 PM) MagicFab: I mentioned before...
(05:00:49 PM) sebsebseb: elk80: yes there will be
(05:00:52 PM) MagicFab: "Tell your converts to share the version they have in any request for help... for example.. "I use ubuntu hardy and... " it's an important detail!
(05:01:10 PM) MagicFab: Why ? well beware of dates! Remember support cycles ? Well, a forum post from january 2007 may not apply to Ubuntu Hardy! Same thing for blogs, bug reports, etc. - keep an eye open for this, it's amazing how much outdated stuff is out there.
(05:01:35 PM) MagicFab: Hopefully with what we discussed today, your new converts and targets will be tempted to join the community - or get whatever they need when they have to :) It's OK too to *not* be sucked into all of it :D
(05:01:43 PM) MagicFab: Cheers to all and thanks for putting up w/ me.
}}}

Ubuntu Open Week - Be your neighbor's Ubuntu Guru - FabianRodriguez - Wed, Apr 29th, 2009

FabianRodriguez shares a few tips and tricks on how to introduce your neighbors, friends or colleagues to Ubuntu without becoming their 24/7 dedicated "computer guy". Empower them to become autonomous and be part of the community (or not!) with some technical support power tricks and key, chosen URLs that will help quickly understand Ubuntu and free software.

FabianRodriguez compartirá trucos y astucias para llevar Ubuntu a vecinos, amgios y colegas sin convertirse en su soporte 24/7, aquel "chico del computador" dedicado. Dele autonotmía a sus nuevos ubunteros, intégrelos a la familia Ubuntu (o no!) con algunos trucos de soporte técnico y direcciones web clave que ayudarán a entender rápidamente qué son Ubuntu y el software libre. 

(04:05:02 PM) MagicFab: Hi All, Fabian Rodriguez here. I work at Canonical's Global Support Services center in Montreal, Canada as a senior support analyst and technical trainer for support & server stuff since November 2006. I am mostly interested in free technologies advocacy (including formats, content, licencing) & training for new users, with an emphasis on security.
(04:05:13 PM) Pirate_Hunter: hi new here but what is this irc about?
(04:05:28 PM) MagicFab: More about me: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MagicFab
(04:05:36 PM) sebsebseb: Pirate_Hunter: I think it's about promoting Ubuntu to people
(04:05:37 PM) MagicFab: Glad to see so many people attending Open Week sessions! I've enjoyed them too and I hope I get some very hard questions today :)
(04:05:48 PM) sebsebseb: Pirate_Hunter: to the naigbhours or whoever,  but without them asking for technical suppourt all the time
(04:06:05 PM) MagicFab: This session log will be at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/UbuntuGuru , for now there is a description.
(04:06:16 PM) MagicFab: Joking aside, I am very interested in the cultural notion that "the computer guy" is always sucked into supporting family & friends for free, with high expectations. I want to beat that and help you convince people that they can handle Ubuntu by themselves. Heck, my parents do!
(04:06:31 PM) MagicFab: Another talk very close to this one is Efrain Valle's With a Little Help tomorrow at 15:00 UTC - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/UbuntuHelp . He'll be going into more detail about all the great Ubuntu support & self-help resources.
(04:06:56 PM) MagicFab: Empower your new Ubuntu converts or prospects to become autonomous and be part of the community (or not!) with some technical support power tricks and key, chosen URLs that will help quickly understand Ubuntu and free software.
(04:06:58 PM) Pirate_Hunter: hmmm until my parents learn to use their mobiles fones properly i disagree with that or even the pc
(04:07:13 PM) jcastro: discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please Pirate_Hunter!
(04:07:13 PM) MagicFab: With that in mmind, I'll take quesitons and try to show some of my stuff along the way.
(04:07:32 PM) Pirate_Hunter: sorry
(04:07:43 PM) ***MagicFab whips
(04:07:52 PM) MagicFab: :)
(04:08:30 PM) Eveready: thx MagicFab. I am that computer guy.
(04:08:39 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab:   what's at 15:00?
(04:08:51 PM) MagicFab: Eveready, pfew i thought all had gone missing :)
(04:09:07 PM) MagicFab: When advocating Ubuntu or *any* free software, you'll notice it's much easier to **listen** and answers questions than to **propose** and impose information.
(04:09:18 PM) sebsebseb: Eveready: people around here to locked into Windows,  would be nice if I could convert people out there more,  tried a little in the past, and failed
(04:09:50 PM) MagicFab: <jcastro> MagicFab: QUESTION: Can you give us an idea of the typical problems you guys deal with in support? Like, what are the common ones?
(04:10:23 PM) MagicFab: Well, at commercial support we deal with anything - really. From "I forgot my password" to "Data corruption on RAID" :)
(04:10:31 PM) Eveready: I use windows all the time. Its just that I have to lock it all down. Admin user by default scares me, and is oblivious to most
(04:10:59 PM) MagicFab: jcastro, will you relay / filter questions here or should I ?
(04:11:13 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:11:32 PM) MagicFab: <BugeyeD> QUESTION: how do you recommend handling the situation when your new-convert neighbor buys a windows-only printer or whatnot and whines when it cannot be made to work?
(04:11:53 PM) MagicFab: BugeyeD, I first ask what the return policy is :)
(04:12:17 PM) MagicFab: Printers support is easy to check - linuxprinting.org should give all needed info.
(04:12:50 PM) MagicFab: HPs are best in my opinion - if it doesn't work at all, contact the manufacturer - youd' be surprised how many do have linux support!
(04:13:20 PM) JFo: MagicFab, I'll copy paste for you if you like
(04:13:32 PM) MagicFab: JFo, that would help  a lot tx
(04:13:36 PM) JFo: k, np
(04:13:49 PM) JFo: <jussi01> Question: How does canonical deal with Local support - for those who dont speak english?
(04:14:14 PM) MagicFab: Well one of my killer tips is you should NOT rely on Canonical. It doesn't scale. We speak 8 languages in the support center.
(04:14:26 PM) MagicFab: But we can'tpossibliy follow up, escalate bug reports, involve devs, etc.
(04:14:45 PM) MagicFab: Rely *and relay* all you can to local resources. Don't make yourself THE target of unlimited, free, 24/7 support. Set your limits, with helpful phrases like "you know, there is a strong worldwide community of Ubuntu users. We all go by the CoC...". Know you local team website.
(04:15:36 PM) MagicFab: that leads to introducing the Local Community teams. When someone calls us and they speak another language, most of the time they can handle very basic English. Enough to show them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
(04:15:38 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:15:41 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> MagicFab, How would you explain to someone why it would be better to use linux (ubuntu) as the prefered OS instead of windows? this is a question i get all the times and I still ahve not come up with an answer that would convince someone new/computer illiterate
(04:15:57 PM) KickAssClown: Hello
(04:16:41 PM) MagicFab: Pirate_Hunter, It's a typical mistake to advertise something as best or better. It depends on everyone. I explain why it's better for me and my wife who is a 1stgrade t4eacher. How I used to be a Windows power user.
(04:16:52 PM) JFo: KickAssClown, please chat in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
(04:17:11 PM) MagicFab: A great site that helps is http://www.getgnulinux.org/
(04:17:32 PM) MagicFab: I dont'say much ! I ask them GO READ THIS - It's in 8 languages, enough for me... I explain I don't like the "anti-Microsoft" tone (really, I dont) - but I ask them to read it and *THEN* come back to me! They feel like I trust them to understand. And to my amazement, they do!
(04:17:40 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:17:49 PM) JFo: <sebsebseb> QUESTION:  I would feel a bit uncomfortable even going to my next door naighbours with an Ubuntu CD, that I don't really know that well, or complete strangers on the same street, and then trying to convert them to Ubuntu.   So  how could I even get those people interested, without looking like some geek/weirdo?
(04:18:15 PM) bruce89: JFo: don't
(04:18:18 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, then don't ! I used to be that ANNOYING GUY!!!!
(04:18:21 PM) MagicFab: :)
(04:18:30 PM) MagicFab: I said before..
(04:18:32 PM) MagicFab: When advocating Ubuntu or *any* free software, you'll notice it's much easier to **listen** and answers questions than to **propose** and impose information.
(04:18:38 PM) MagicFab: People know I am "working with computers" but when they ask "what do you do for XXXX" or "How do you... XXX" I have a very short answer: "I may not be able to help you. I use mostly free software, I don't use Windows or Mac OS". STOP!!! I don't elaborate.
(04:18:52 PM) MagicFab: So a few people come back and ask more, intrigued. I give them homework.
(04:19:16 PM) bruce89: that's the way I'd approach it
(04:19:22 PM) MagicFab: I make them ask me or *someone else* - here, plug that getgnulinux.org site or your loCo team. Invite them to a *SOCIAL* event, not a technical one.
(04:19:26 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:19:28 PM) JFo: <sebsebseb> QUESTION:  Naighbours,  how about local schools and such,  could I ever get them interested in say Edubuntu, sucessfully?
(04:19:44 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, of course. It's more subtle.
(04:19:49 PM) KickAssClown: I have a simple request. I'm learning W-Grammar, also known as van wijngaarden grammar. I
(04:19:53 PM) MagicFab: I'll start with the famous "in these times... " :)
(04:19:57 PM) jussi01: KickAssClown: chat in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please :)
(04:20:19 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: how it seems in UK,  you got to get  BECTA won over, or whoever is in charge of  the  local education athority and what software schools use.
(04:20:28 PM) MagicFab: So, in local organizations, pass some articles about how X saved $$Y with Ubuntu (or else)
(04:20:31 PM) angelblade: if you have a website , http://www.getgnulinux.org/ have link buttons for spread free software
(04:20:40 PM) MagicFab: always BACK OFF, remember the golden rule: wait for them to ask.
(04:20:43 PM) KickAssClown: I'm looking for an appropriate community to discuss it with. I was hoping someone here might be able to direct me to another source if this classroom is not the place to learn such things.
(04:20:57 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: well they woudn't ask, since they don't know I exist, which is also the problem
(04:21:09 PM) MagicFab: Ok, I'll stop the session here if people don't sta in #ubuntu-classroom-chat.
(04:21:18 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:21:20 PM) JFo: <sirderigo> QUESTION: do you think what helping *too much* a newbie will be good or bad for him?
(04:21:25 PM) jussi01: MagicFab: we can +m it if you need
(04:21:27 PM) jcastro: we can +m if you'd like
(04:21:59 PM) MagicFab: sirderigo, interesting :)
(04:22:11 PM) MagicFab: I'd say BAD
(04:22:17 PM) MagicFab: let people explore, give them tools
(04:22:33 PM) MagicFab: Fo rexample, refer to official documentation - https://help.ubuntu.com/ is a *great*, easy starting point for any new comers to Ubuntu, yet many old hats just don't know about it!! As a support analyst, but also as "the computer guy", I *have* to know what the official docs contain - or else die of shame at the next Ubuntu party :)
(04:22:59 PM) MagicFab: Regarding actual support, you need to let people know a few things that are key so they become AUTONOMOUS:
(04:23:19 PM) MagicFab: the more they learn that they can do things on their own, the less you'll hear about them.
(04:23:22 PM) MagicFab: For exeample
(04:23:28 PM) MagicFab: What distribution / version do they have ? You'd be surprised how many people call Canonical commercial support asking about RedHat ! Show your new Ubuntu converts System > Administration > System Monitor. It's an easy, graphical way to know your Ubuntu version, kernel version, memory, etc.
(04:23:42 PM) angelblade left the room ("''=~('(?{'.('+/)@)['^'[]@.]{').'"'.(':@:^,_,>_^[/^[_^^+)_^_'^'{.];@=@_;;{@-{;;-[@;;}').',$/})')").
(04:23:59 PM) MagicFab: sirderigo, so - don't show too much - but also make sure what you show leads to more - without you
(04:24:01 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:24:02 PM) JFo: <awkorama> QUESTION: there is still a huge problem with proprietary formats (namely .doc, docx etc.).. i have no power over many of the users of these formats? ubuntu office suites do not import the formats correctly all the time, what is the solution here? (i heard that windows 7 will include virtualized xp, can this be a clue) ?
(04:24:31 PM) MagicFab: awkorama, there's no simple solution. But here, a few tricks:
(04:24:49 PM) croppa_ is now known as croppa
(04:24:52 PM) MagicFab: - many people use 20 ENTERS instead of proper page breaks - that husrt formatting
(04:25:05 PM) MagicFab: - Fonts are always missing - the msttcorefonts package helps
(04:25:08 PM) MagicFab: etc..
(04:25:29 PM) MagicFab: bottom line - don't deal with it. Be practical and help people understand the problem - not the symptom.
(04:25:49 PM) MagicFab: They wan tto keep saving in .doc ? Fine! Do it. Eventually they'll ask about free formats and then....
(04:26:23 PM) MagicFab: wham! http://www.openformats.org/main
(04:26:27 PM) MagicFab: give them more homework :)
(04:26:46 PM) MagicFab: surely, but slowly - they'll educate themselves. I don't give the moral speech about it anymore.
(04:26:51 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:26:52 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> MagicFab, what about those people that have some pc knowledge but still believe those linux fab like you have to use commands, no gui etc... I had to handle one of them once showed them ubuntu on my system with gui and they were like yeah but i still would have to learn the commands 0.o???
(04:27:23 PM) MagicFab: JFo, getgnulinux.org has great screenshots.
(04:27:44 PM) MagicFab: That's it! Don't spend TIME on them!!! But don't be arrogant heh :)
(04:27:51 PM) MagicFab: I know, though balance !
(04:28:09 PM) MagicFab: Yes, many people still think it's all CLI land over here.
(04:28:17 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:28:17 PM) bruce89: JFo: can't do anything about ignorance
(04:28:19 PM) JFo: <pwnguin> QUESTION: the loco in my community is mostly dead, and geographically sparse. isn't pointing people at a loco without participating in one counterproductive?
(04:28:54 PM) MagicFab: pwnguin, invite them over for coffee. Start small. You know the saying three is company.. :)
(04:29:10 PM) MagicFab: Blog about it, eventually someone else will pick it up.
(04:29:28 PM) MagicFab: It's hard to start from zero, but I've helped many teams do exctly that.
(04:29:59 PM) MagicFab: Worse thing that can happen, you make 1-2 new friends. They tell 2 more.. then next month the meeting is 5 people and so on.
(04:30:11 PM) MagicFab: We had release parties with 4 people in Montreal!!!!
(04:30:13 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:30:14 PM) JFo: <sebsebseb> QUESTION:  Helping  people in the local community with  Ubuntu,  that's fun and a nice thing to do, but we live in a society where money is used,  so  I wonder if I could ever  make good money from doing homeuser/consumer  Ubuntu and Windows suppourt, focuessing on the software, since I am not much of a hardware guy.
(04:30:44 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, Canonical hired me.
(04:30:46 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:30:54 PM) MagicFab: ok, seriously, I think yes :)
(04:30:59 PM) JFo: <jussi01> Question: What resources exist from Canonical with regard to educating Loco's and individuals?
(04:31:12 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: why?  and I looked into that, it seems Canocnical want the best.   so like LPI  I would have to do maybe, and some Ubuntu quallification etc
(04:31:25 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: plus I thought Canocial mainly did servers
(04:31:42 PM) MagicFab: I used ot be a consultant before joining Canonical. I see many,many opportunities for doing business with Ubuntu. Look up "open source business model" or look me up in #ubuntu-ca :)
(04:31:52 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:32:08 PM) JFo: no more questions just now MagicFab
(04:32:28 PM) ceelight: don't forgt jussi01
(04:32:32 PM) MagicFab: jussi01, regarding individuals, shop.canonical.com has the online Ubuntu Desktop Course for ~U$60 I think.
(04:33:05 PM) Pirate_Hunter: yes there is mine which was not answered i believe?
(04:33:21 PM) MagicFab: and i know there's great activity around education in the community these days. Canonical as a business doesn't focus that much on individuals, however we have 3 people dedicated full time to the communityt (including jcastro who helped organize openweek)
(04:33:49 PM) MagicFab: So I previously mentioned.../
(04:33:59 PM) MagicFab: help your new converts know what Ubuntu version they run. I meant it!
(04:34:12 PM) MagicFab: Related to that...
(04:34:20 PM) MagicFab: What support cycle can you expect? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases - yes, I often forget to tell friends to upgrade before their version reaches EOL!!
(04:34:40 PM) JFo: <pwnguin> QUESTION: you've mentioned locos and canonical support; do you have an opinion of answers.lp.net?
(04:34:46 PM) MagicFab: Keep this in mind.
(04:35:11 PM) MagicFab: Tell your converts to share the version they have in any request for help... for example.. "I use Ubuntu Hardy and... " it's an important detail! This combined with knowing about the official docs... helps a lot
(04:35:42 PM) MagicFab: pwnguin, I love it. I wish it was multilingual! Hopefully LP being open source many people will see value in that _ I know i'll pitch in.
(04:35:56 PM) pwnguin: it's not multilingual?
(04:35:57 PM) MagicFab: I also think Answer is not used to its potential by any stretch!
(04:36:13 PM) MagicFab: pwnguin, the interface is not - and that means it  won't get used by many.
(04:36:16 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:36:19 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> MagicFab, I do believe the transition of an os to linux (ubuntu) can be very difficult even knowing most linux os nowaday do provide a desktop environment that people can use with most desirable applications I still believe for someone that is new it can still be hard i.e. i just had to install ubuntu-restricted-extra even knowing rythbox is there, most users would expect to just point it to their music folder and it w
(04:36:19 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> ould play any format
(04:37:20 PM) MagicFab: Pirate_Hunter, interesting. I never install metapackages of non-free stuff. It's not needed. Pick only what you need. When they ask, have your 2 sentence ready on why this happens:
(04:37:31 PM) MagicFab: 1) Manufacturers lack of support
(04:37:34 PM) MagicFab: and/or
(04:37:57 PM) MagicFab: 2) Established "standards" on products/ formats/ software that are patented and as such, not available for free
(04:38:04 PM) MagicFab: I over simplify but yes, be ready.
(04:38:14 PM) MagicFab: THe FSF site may help in understanding some of that
(04:38:41 PM) MagicFab: You may need to tone it down for friends / family though.
(04:38:58 PM) MagicFab: Don't shove things down anyone's throat :) Wait until people notice what you do and answer their questions in a brief, precise way.
(04:39:09 PM) MagicFab:  Stick to the original question! I've found the more I talk, the less people listen to me. The more I listen, the more they trust me.
(04:39:17 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:39:18 PM) JFo: <ball> QUESTION: If people do this poorly, isn't there a danger of doing more harm than good to the reputation of Ubuntu?
(04:40:17 PM) MagicFab: ball, well, I am trusting all people here will do a great job. I fyou are not 300% sure about something, saying "I don't know" is also in order.
(04:40:35 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:40:36 PM) JFo: <sirderigo> QUESTION: what do you think what non-official activities in a LoCo are good or bad?
(04:41:40 PM) MagicFab: sirderigo, I wouldn't say anything is "bad" or "good" - but, well, if you organize mushroom hunting parties and call them Ubuntu... at least give out CDs or something :)
(04:42:21 PM) MagicFab: generally speaking I wouldn't put myself ina  situation where people or organizations confuse a Loco Team activity with commercial support from Canonical for example.
(04:42:22 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:42:24 PM) JFo: <sebsebseb> QUESTION:  I wonder how I could find out who uses Ubuntu around here, or would be interested in using it.   I guess I can't really find out easilly since my  LOCO is  dead or pretty much dead, but as far as I know also somewhere I can't just get to, if it is still running.
(04:42:43 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, which Loco ?
(04:42:54 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: Bristol  and Bath one for England
(04:43:20 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, so put up a small flyer, invite a few friends to a local pub. Call it "Ubuntu Bristol" or else.
(04:43:27 PM) sebsebseb: [21:38] <ball> QUESTION: What sebsebseb said
(04:43:28 PM) ball: Is Bath back in Wiltshire now?
(04:43:37 PM) sebsebseb: ball: yeah think so
(04:43:38 PM) MagicFab: Even if only 2 people show up, so be it! In time it will build. You'd be surprised how many people show up.
(04:43:59 PM) ball: sebsebseb: I live in the U.S, but have the same problem: No LoCo
(04:44:04 PM) MagicFab: Of course abuse facebook for that. I have the most ubuntu pimped Facebook account on earth. And no, you can't be my friend.
(04:44:05 PM) MagicFab: :0
(04:44:07 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:44:09 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> MagicFab, i understand that but that options means that people will have to stop using there music files and hope either that the manufacturers someday release music in opensource format which will never happen, it doesnt actually solve the problem, this are people that are coming from another os they have their files and would like to use them instead of being told sorry maybe you can use this file instead. what does
(04:44:09 PM) JFo: <Pirate_Hunter> one do in that situation?
(04:44:35 PM) MagicFab: *Disclaimer* I don't know Pirate_Hunter, he or she's just a great Open week participant :)
(04:44:43 PM) sebsebseb: MagicFab: yeah I turned my Myspace into an about me page and software promotion :d  ,but  hardly anyone uses Myspace around here anymore,  so  I basically just like tell people from net to look at it sometimes
(04:44:56 PM) jussi01: sebsebseb: please dont talk here. use #ubuntu-classrom-chat
(04:45:01 PM) sebsebseb: jussi01: I know
(04:45:02 PM) MagicFab: sebsebseb, stick to u-c-c
(04:45:11 PM) MagicFab: Pirate_Hunter, no!
(04:45:39 PM) MagicFab: Let them find out. Install mp3 support for now. although MP3 patents will soon expire, isn't it ? Research it on Wikipedia.
(04:45:56 PM) MagicFab: Wikipedia is THE most layman's place to read about tech stuff. An dget precise detailslike dates.
(04:46:20 PM) MagicFab: Pirate_Hunter, KNOW your Ogg Audio -playing devices, there are many.
(04:46:51 PM) MagicFab: Don't insist on free formats. People eventually get it. Point them to http://www.openformats.org/en4
(04:47:10 PM) MagicFab: Remember ? HOMEWORK! People understand this stuff, don't underestimate.
(04:47:13 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:47:15 PM) JFo: <akgraner> QUESTION:  When a person realizes that using Ubuntu is not just an OS but a whole community, how do you direct their efforts if they are a non-technical person, so they stay energized and excited about Ubuntu?  What are the top 3 questions to ask to direct them, their are so many directions you can go in, how do you keep it ordered and not overwhelming?
(04:47:23 PM) MagicFab: akgraner, :)
(04:47:27 PM) akgraner: :)
(04:47:53 PM) MagicFab: You don't. They have to do it on their own. You only have to remain *available*. Don't push it.
(04:47:56 PM) MagicFab: HOWEVER!
(04:48:22 PM) MagicFab: If you're talking about bug reports.. well, show them some you have filed (if you have) . If you are talking about docs, show them..
(04:48:32 PM) MagicFab: well... show them how YOU have remained energized etc.!
(04:49:04 PM) MagicFab: 3 questions for them:
(04:49:09 PM) MagicFab: - Do you have the time ?
(04:49:12 PM) MagicFab: - Do you care ?
(04:49:22 PM) MagicFab: - Do you want me to care and dedicate time to you ?
(04:49:33 PM) MagicFab: Of course dress it up accordingly..
(04:49:35 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:49:37 PM) JFo: <awkorama> QUESTION: Isn't it kind of strange to expect some help from users? I mean, many people view their computers as tools and most tools require no help from them to function.
(04:51:02 PM) MagicFab: awkorama, you know what, most people don't really need help. They need a couple more tools.
(04:51:07 PM) MagicFab: 1) Documentation
(04:51:20 PM) MagicFab: 2) The assurance that you are available (well, you = the community)
(04:51:46 PM) MagicFab: 3) No "RTFM " or  "You're stupid, you don't get it" attitude
(04:52:15 PM) awkorama: I meant more like.. How to make someone passionate about contributing to community, I don't cotribute to community of my car manufacturer.. whatever
(04:52:24 PM) MagicFab: Strange ? no. I believe humans rely on peer help to the extent they become autonomous. Software / tech stuff it's not different.
(04:52:38 PM) MagicFab: awkorama, you don't "make" someone passionate.
(04:53:05 PM) MagicFab: You know, I worked in several call centers. I had to sell stuff. When someone didn't want it, we had 3 minutes to determine that. Then, we took another call.
(04:53:19 PM) MagicFab: TAKE THE NEXT UBUNTU CONVERT - don't spend precious time convincin someone.
(04:53:54 PM) MagicFab: Eventually people notice something is off - why is everyone paying for antivirus ? Why can't I find a MS Word french dicitonary at 2AM ? Then they remember you.
(04:53:59 PM) MagicFab: <sirederigo> QUESTION: I don't know how to say no!!! How can i say NO I CAN"T HELP in a nice way ?
(04:54:11 PM) MagicFab: sirderigo, great question (in Spanish, so I translated)
(04:54:15 PM) MagicFab: You NEVER say no.
(04:54:26 PM) MagicFab: You say "sure, post it in a public forum".
(04:54:46 PM) MagicFab: Tell anyone that asks for free help you will give them free, unlimited, 24/7 life support.
(04:54:56 PM) MagicFab: First question they ask, ask them pol;itely to post it in your LoCo Team forum, mailing list or IRC. Make sure you ARE there and reply to it, follow up etc. Then they will notice the rest of the community.
(04:55:26 PM) MagicFab: Then, you pray everyone follows th eCode of Conduct and the sheer love is soooo overwhelming they'll "get it" and contribute back.
(04:55:53 PM) MagicFab: You know what ? I had to tell people how to ask for MY free help.
(04:56:23 PM) MagicFab: on my contact poage I have the most ridiculous rules
(04:56:31 PM) MagicFab: "I don’t reply to any emails that demand free help, are unreadable or impossible to understand, lack any courtesy, are not signed."
(04:56:44 PM) MagicFab: I also set expectations straight
(04:56:48 PM) MagicFab: "I reply to requests as time permits, mostly within 48 hrs. Emergencies and current customers under contract are prioritized, with a response time usually under 4 hours. "
(04:57:07 PM) MagicFab: not asking everyone to be like that :) but within Ubuntu context, you need to barter.
(04:57:27 PM) MagicFab: "You want my free help ? OK, let's make sure it counts for EVERYONE. As a side effect, let's expose it more".
(04:57:29 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:57:31 PM) JFo: <ball> QUESTION: Do we have to get the CBC talking about Ubuntu for civilians to believe it's credible?
(04:58:18 PM) MagicFab: ball, we don't. They will :) In fact they have. ;) Remember, people eventyally notince "something's going on".
(04:58:21 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(04:58:30 PM) JFo: <pwnguin> QUESTION: ~50 people have rsvp'd for a distro-neutral LUG event within walking distance of my house. what benefits does a loco provide over traditional LUGs? and can they coexist?
(04:59:25 PM) MagicFab: pwnguin, again, none is better or worse. They usually coexist. In fact I had a gentoo guy always on the #ubuntu-co channel - he eventually admitted he was there to "learn how you guys can chat without fighting!".
(04:59:51 PM) MagicFab: Each learn from the other - just don't be pushy and of course ignore non-constructive people - hardest :)
(04:59:52 PM) MagicFab: next ?
(05:00:01 PM) JFo: That looks like the last one MagicFab
(05:00:02 PM) MagicFab: and we have 2 min left I think.
(05:00:29 PM) MagicFab: Ok so one LAST thing!!
(05:00:37 PM) elk80: Will there be a log posted from this session? (sorry to break in!)
(05:00:40 PM) MagicFab: I mentioned before...
(05:00:49 PM) sebsebseb: elk80: yes there will be
(05:00:52 PM) MagicFab: "Tell your converts to share the version they have in any request for help... for example.. "I use ubuntu hardy and... " it's an important detail!
(05:01:10 PM) MagicFab: Why ? well beware of dates! Remember support cycles ? Well, a forum post from january 2007 may not apply to Ubuntu Hardy! Same thing for blogs, bug reports, etc. - keep an eye open for this, it's amazing how much outdated stuff is out there.
(05:01:35 PM) MagicFab: Hopefully with what we discussed today, your new converts and targets  will be tempted to join the community - or get whatever they need when they have to :) It's OK too to *not* be sucked into all of it :D
(05:01:43 PM) MagicFab: Cheers to all and thanks for putting up w/ me.

MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/UbuntuGuru (last edited 2009-04-29 21:16:04 by pool-70-16-48-183)