Ubuntu Open Week - Ubuntu Desktop Team - Thu, Nov 30, 2006
see also Monday Session.
08:03 seb128 I'm Sebastien Bacher, working for Canonical and member of the Ubuntu DesktopTeam 08:03 seb128 I'll do a short presentation first of what are the team goals and what is the team doing and what you can do if you want to contribute 08:04 seb128 then I'll reply to questions 08:05 seb128 quick round, do we have any member of the desktop team around who want to say hi and what they are doing quickly? ;) 08:05 seb128 dholbach? ;) 08:06 dholbach I'm Daniel Holbach, work for Canonical too and am part of the Desktop Team also. I work on Telepathy too, Accessibility, and a couple of other teams also. :-) 08:06 seb128 hey dholbach :) === seb128 hugs dholbach 08:06 dholbach guys, I don't type as quick as seb128 === dholbach hugs seb128 08:07 dholbach :) 08:07 seb128 note that the team is friendly and hugs are common around ;) 08:06 seb128 it's sort of dinner time for people on european time so maybe some people are not around 08:06 seb128 anyway, let's start 08:06 seb128 The desktop team is the team working on the Ubuntu desktop. 08:06 seb128 The main goals for the team are: 08:06 seb128 - update desktop packages when new upstream versions are available 08:06 seb128 - make easy for users to try new cool softwares by packaging them quickly 08:06 seb128 - have a good collaboration with upstream 08:06 seb128 - triage and fix desktop bugs 08:06 seb128 - make the Ubuntu Desktop ROCK! 08:07 seb128 08:07 seb128 Where you can find members of the desktop team: 08:07 seb128 - the #ubuntu-desktop@freenode IRC chan 08:07 seb128 - the ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list 08:07 seb128 08:07 seb128 feel free to join the chan or the list at any time if you want to ask any question or start working on the desktop and help the team 08:08 seb128 08:08 seb128 let see what the team do and where you can help 08:08 seb128 08:08 seb128 * Work on Bugs: 08:08 seb128 Bugs managements is a good part of the work for the desktop team at the moment and required to prioritise the work and now what problems should worked first 08:08 seb128 . 08:08 seb128 - Places for desktop bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs/+assignedbugs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs 08:08 seb128 - You can help the Desktop Team by joining the bug squad (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad) 08:08 seb128 * 236 members to date 08:08 seb128 * ~60000 bug mails in the last year ;-) 08:08 seb128 * Hug Days 08:08 seb128 * forward useful bugs and investigate with upstream 08:08 seb128 * make bug useful (reassign them to the right place, ask for required details, get debug backtrace for crashers, clean bugs that should be closed) 08:08 seb128 - help listing bugs that should be fixed for the next version of Ubuntu (or fixes to backport) 08:08 seb128 08:09 seb128 bugs are taking a good part of our efforts at the moment and somebody anybody can help easily on 08:09 dholbach ~60000 bug mails (only for desktop bugs) 08:09 seb128 dholbach: stat for this year? 08:09 dholbach no stats yet 08:10 seb128 any, lot, so any help is welcome :) 08:10 dholbach but I'd expect it to be *1.5 at the very least 08:10 seb128 there is not only bugs though 08:10 seb128 08:10 seb128 * Communication with other teams, upstream, Debian, etc: 08:10 seb128 We want to have a good relationship with the people we work with 08:10 seb128 . 08:10 seb128 - work on forwarding patches upstream (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/UpstreamDelta), having a low delta is better for everybody 08:10 seb128 - become point of contact between the distribution and upstream for packages you have an interest in 08:10 seb128 - work with other teams and Debian 08:10 seb128 08:11 seb128 if people from upstream world want to work with us to make sure their software work nicely on Ubuntu they are welcome 08:11 seb128 and we are really looking for people to "adopt an upstream" 08:11 seb128 = being the point of contact in the distribution for a package and working with upstream making sure everybody is happy 08:12 seb128 08:12 seb128 another point 08:12 seb128 08:12 seb128 * Documentation: 08:12 seb128 A good documentation help new contributors to know where to start and also not-so-new team members how to do specific things, or what is to do by example 08:12 seb128 . 08:12 seb128 - help by writing specifications (i.e: documents on launchpad and the wiki that describes the changes we want to get implemented and how) 08:12 seb128 - update wiki pages for the DesktopTeam (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam) (goals, list of things to do, documentation, how to start, etc) 08:12 seb128 08:12 seb128 the documentation is important too 08:12 seb128 we are especially looking for good documentation helping the people who start 08:13 seb128 because it's not easy to start when you don't know what to do 08:13 seb128 and after some time people tend to forget the difficulties they have when they started 08:13 seb128 we have everything to win making it easy for people who want to participate :) 08:13 seb128 08:14 seb128 next point 08:14 seb128 * Packaging: 08:14 seb128 Most of the work for a distribution is at the packaging level which means there is some place to contribute there too :) 08:14 seb128 . 08:14 seb128 - help doing desktop packages updates (update the package, test the new version, communicate issues with upstream is there is any) 08:14 seb128 - pick a package you have interest in (contacting the usual maintainer before starting to work on it might be a good idea) and start working on it. No need to have uploads right to start on a package, having your first updates mentored is usually a good start and way to learn. If you do a good job you can quickly become the maintainer for that package 08:14 seb128 - work on fixing issues by writting patches or backporting them from upstream and applying those fixes to the packages 08:14 seb128 - package new softwares 08:14 seb128 08:14 seb128 we tend to keep up with the GNOME desktop updates usually 08:14 seb128 but there is lot of nice softwares around users would like to play with 08:15 seb128 and that would be nice if people who like to play with them etc would step and maintain the corresponding package 08:15 seb128 and being a contact point for those upstream too ;) 08:15 seb128 08:16 seb128 and there is testing too! 08:16 seb128 * Testing: 08:16 seb128 - help testing GNOME, write specific test plans 08:16 seb128 * Other: 08:16 seb128 - new ideas: bring your good ideas of changes for the Ubuntu desktop and help to implement them 08:16 seb128 - teams: if you can motivate several people to work on a project creating a team around it is a good way to organize work: pda, printing, mono, telepathy, etc 08:16 seb128 08:17 seb128 that's a summary of the things we are working on I think 08:17 seb128 if I forgot some let me know 08:17 seb128 now just a few examples of tasks where you could start 08:17 seb128 and we will do questions 08:17 seb128 08:17 seb128 Examples of tasks to start: 08:17 seb128 - If you feel comfortable enough to reply to upstream comment about bugs there is a list of bugs that should be forwarded upstream available on http://tinyurl.com/yzd8t3 (you can also pick bugs not listed there yet, there is plenty of them not categorized to forward) 08:17 seb128 - Clean old 'NeedsInfo' bugs 08:17 seb128 - help out with packaging, maintaining, merging 08:17 seb128 - review bugs with patches attached 08:17 seb128 - look at bugs tagged as 'ubuntulove' 08:17 seb128 - write about the new cool changes happening to the UbuntuDesktop world for UWN: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter 08:17 seb128 - update wiki pages for the DesktopTeam to make them useful, especially for new contributors (having an updated and useful https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO would be nice by example) 08:17 seb128 Start here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/GettingStarted 08:18 seb128 08:18 seb128 ok 08:18 seb128 that's done for the presentation 08:18 seb128 let's do question then
<stefg> Ubuntu introduced the Apps/Places/System trinity to gnome, so the System menu is doing the job of a system-tool like yast/drakconf/foobar. But what about xorg.conf generation anything like SaX in the pipeline? (I hate to advice people: You've got to sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg! reaction: ".... dpkg....what???")
the DesktopTeam doesn't maintain xorg, xorg is big enough to have it's own team. I think that xorg has an autoconfig branch and it's going to land to feisty
[stefg] That's not a xorg-thing... will we have a graphical tool to configure xorg is the question...
- ah, nothing planned for that no. the way to go is autoconfig from xorg rather than a tool to do it. if I understood what the xorg team wants to do [apokryphos] Kubuntu is working on one for Feisty, as I recall. (in kubuntu there is only some basic configuration available for it at the moment, with kde-guidance)
<rulus> For now it seems to me that the Desktop team is a mix of all other themes together? You pointed out fixing bugs (not for the bugsquad theme?) and working on documentation (not for the documentation theme?) Is this correct, or just a bit confusion from my point of view?
- good question. bugsquad is not specific to the desktop, but the desktop is a component which gets a lot of bugs. and you can really help by joining the bugsquad team and help on desktop bugs, because the time we spend fighting bugs we can't spend it working on the desktop and that's not easy to find a balance. documentation is made by the documentation team. I was rather speaking about documentation about the desktop organisation and where to start etc which should be written for the team by people around the team. the ubuntu-doc team has enough to do documenting Ubuntu without starting documenting how teams are working
<frafu> What is backporting? Bringing applications that are not part of ubuntu into ubuntu?
- backporting is taking something new and bringing it where you want. not sure if that's clear. the backport team takes packages from feisty and build them on edgy by example... new version of software like they will likely build gaim 2.0 and build it on edgy, so you will get a backport of that new version of gaim for edgy. we "backport" patches too which means take fix from a new version and apply them to the previous one to fix an issue [apokryphos] generally it's done when an ubuntu release has an older version of a popular package, such as, say, firefox
<meduxa> do you guys have plans on releasing a live DVD with both Ubuntu and Kubuntu
not that I know, but if somebody wants to work on that as project that should be doable. maybe that could be a spec for next cycle
<samgee> how can I look for upstreams that haven't been adopted yet?
- that is a good question. we discussed monday on the first Desktop session about having an "ambassador" noted on launchpad for a package. that is not done yet. at the moment the best is probably to look at the changelog to know who has worked on the package and to ask him. usually people working on a package should know about that. if they don't there is probably nobody doing that job for the package at the moment
<amnesia> how's telepathy at the moment and the integration :)
- I would say than dholbach and the telepathy-team do a rocking job. we probably have most of it packaged for edgy. that's a good example of how people interested in a particular topic can group together and create a team. [dholbach] as clients we have gossip-telepathy and cohoba in feisty. gossip-telepathy works quite well at the moment and gabble (jabber) and butterfly (msn) support are good enough to use. the upstream developers are working like mad and audio conferencing is said to work quite good as well (I never got around to test it yet). (farsight is doing that part). sudo apt-get install telepathy-gnome in feisty should provide you with all that's needed
<Bourlotieris> Your top priorities for Feisty - any details about how Beryl will be implemented in it (by default)?
- top priorities? GNOME 2.18, compiz or beryl (not decided yet which one), and I would like beagle or tracker (not decided which one neither) on the desktop too, an app to replace disks-admin would be welcome too. we will likely have tracker to universe soon, maybe next week. I've contacted upstream this week about that. then we will ask for user feedback and see which would fit better. tracker looks nice [dholbach] . o O { I would like to get a pony }
<meduxa> are you guys working on any improvement on the applications' menu for next version?
no. does it need improvement?
we have gnome-main-menu (aka slab), the menu from novell packaged and we will likely have it on the CD for feisty, but not as default one. maybe with a panel profile switcher app (one as been worked during SoC2006) which would allow to pick a standard linux layout or a windows like one. it's on my list of things I would like to get for feisty, it'll depend on how busy I'll be though. contributions are welcome [freedesktop] rules are difficult to understand for customice the menu so. graphical interfaces for customicing are the only good choice for users
- alacarte (menu editor) should "just work", no?
[meduxa] it does, the point is if you have alacarte stopeed from improvements or you are developing more features for it
- we are not working on it atm, if you have suggestion feel free to open feature request or mail the desktop list about them
<alp> There are a bunch of D-Bus APIs that have been showing up, some of varying quality, and D-Bus lacks a versioning scheme (no sonames etc.). i've noticed already that supporting different API revisions is causing trouble for applications. is there a game plan for bus API versioning?
- dbus is 1.0 now. API is stable and will not change any time soon. we don't plan to do any distribution specific work on that at the moment no
[alp] (am talking about the APIs themselves, not the library implementation)
<amnesia> speaking of dbus. we definitely need dbus for volume control and totem too. are they planned/done yet?
no. not planned nor done. contributions are welcome. there is lot of such "small improvements" which would be nice. maybe create a spec for them so it get developer time next cycle
<andresmujica> About apps menu, maybe at gnome is ok, but at kde is a complete mess. It needs imporvement.
dunno about KDE. anybody from the kubuntu team around? DesktopTeam does Ubuntu Desktop in fact. kubuntu-team does KDE.
[andresmujica] I completely agree. It looks like Kubuntu might be adopting the kickoff menu for feisty
[ubotu] kickoff is a new KDE menu developed by SUSE. It organises items differently, has an integrated Beagle search, and been put through extensive usability testing in the Novell usability lab. See http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2283
<amnesia> mac-menu integration? there is a patched libgtk around, works alright actually. could it go in feisty? any thoughts on that?
no idea, I don't use mac and don't know what mac-menu looks like and dunno about that bug. any pointer is welcome
feel free to mail the desktop list about that
<Bourlotieris> just from curiosity about how things work - by which way will the final decision be made for whether the default manager will be Beryl or Compiz?
- the TB (technical board) will make the call. that's likely to depends on the feedback we get on them. how actively they are maintained and what we think about them. I would be in favor of compiz for my part and compiz used by other distros too, etc and looks stabler and seems to be doing what we need [apokryphos] at the moment it looks like it'll most likely be on the grounds of stability. apokryphos seb128, they don't plan that settings manager to be available directly to the end users. there's another settings manager which they're using; developed mainly by Amaranth I believe
[bhale] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompizOnFeisty < compiz is very well integrated today
<meduxa> Can you describe the process from recieving a suggestion of a new feature or improvement related with usability until it is decided to include it in a new version or desestimated?
no fixed process and we don't have an usability team atm in fact (just one usability guy). either discussions on the list or on bugs. specs are probably things which work the best for non trivial changes. for details good sense and convincing upstream or the maintainer is probably the way
<amnesia> irda support? I need to apt-get install irda-utils, enable irda in /etc/defaults, then it works. need to install irda-tray (not in ubuntu) to be able to beam files from/to my cell phone. Anything planned to make it easier? ..like the bluetooth love ubuntu gets nowadays, but irda is on almost every phone nowadays
no, no plan from me. simple reason: I've no irda device. if you have an interest to irda and what to help you are most welcome. if only archive change are required (like move packages to ubuntu-desktop), mail ubuntu-devel to describe what needs to be done and why. if things need to be packaged or maintained, help doing the job. if you need somebody to review your package just ask on IRC. I'm sure some MOTU or some Desktop Team people will be happy to help you on that
08:54 seb128 feel free to join #ubuntu-desktop or the desktop list at any time if you want to discuss desktop things