Ubuntu Open Week - Xubuntu - Wed, Nov 29, 2006

10:00   somerville32    Welcome everyone to the Ubuntu Open Week Xubuntu Session!
10:01   somerville32    There are a few things I'd like to go over and then I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.
10:02   somerville32    I'd ask that you please ask your questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and we'll make sure to work through them and answer them the best we can. :)
10:02   somerville32    First off, I'd like to introduce myself.
10:03   somerville32    My name is Cody Somerville, I've been using Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu for some time now (And loving every minute I might add).
10:03   somerville32    I'm also an Xubuntu developer.
10:04   somerville32    I'd also like to introduce some of my colleagues.
10:05   somerville32    Maxamillion, who has been a great help in developing our new website
10:05   somerville32    TheSheep, who has made numerous contributions all across the board
10:06   somerville32    And I'm sure there are others lurking about but I'm not going to waste time scrolling through all 328 names.
10:06   somerville32    So... What _is_ Xubuntu?
10:07   somerville32    Xubuntu, as you may know, a GNU/Linux operation system that is built on top of the Ubuntu base.
10:07   somerville32    Xubuntu makes use of the Xfce4 desktop
10:08   somerville32    and is shipped with top quality packages from the Ubuntu archives. Xubuntu will use, as far as possible, GTK2 applications, ensuring maximum efficiency.
10:08   somerville32    However, since Ubuntu is built on the Ubuntu base, you can also install your KDE and Gnome applications.
10:09   somerville32    It is a common misconception that Xubuntu is only suitable for low-end desktops.
10:09   somerville32    I'd like to dispell that myth.
10:10   somerville32    Xubuntu and the Xfce4 desktop is fast, efficient, friendly to use but also carries a strong feature set.
10:11   somerville32    Xubuntu IS ideal for old or low-end machines, thin-client networks, and also for those who would like to get more performance out of their hardware.
10:12   somerville32    Our aim is to provide the best desktop experience possible we can and we're working towards that goal.
10:13   somerville32    So, what kind of things are we working on?
10:13   somerville32    The Xubuntu Team is assisting upstream development - Thunar, Xfce4, etc.
10:14   somerville32    We've also taken responsibility for some of the light-weight, alternative software on launchpad
10:14   somerville32    ie. bug triage, working with upstream developers, etc.
10:15   somerville32    We're also working at improving our documentation efforts - both for official documentation and the wiki.
10:15   somerville32    The Xubuntu wiki pages have seen massive reorganization and updates in the last few weeks
10:15   somerville32    And the efforts continue to improve in these areas.
10:16   somerville32    Xubuntu Artwork is something I'm really proud of.
10:17   somerville32    J Mak, TheSheep, and the rest of the Xubuntu artwork team have been doing an awesome job.
10:17   somerville32    Programming, packages, and development has also seen a recent surge in activty.
10:18   somerville32    Jani, Crimsun, Gloubiboulga, TheSheep, etc. have all been working really hard on different projects to help improve Xubuntu and give back to the Ubuntu project as a whole.
10:19   somerville32    Vincent, Adam, and Jonathon have done some amazing work with our new website.
10:20   somerville32    And we've all been working very hard to give back Ubuntu and all the sister projects through advocacy and other individual efforts.
10:20   somerville32    So, how can people get involved with Xubuntu?
10:20   somerville32    Getting involved with Xubuntu is extreamly easy!
10:21   somerville32    We have a very detailed adaption of the Ubuntu contribution page available at: http://xubuntu.org/devel
10:21   somerville32    # Join the Xubuntu-devel mailing list
10:21   somerville32    # Join us in #xubuntu-devel on irc.freenode.net
10:21   somerville32    # Join us in meetings to help network with others and share ideas
10:22   somerville32    Once you've gotten yourself settled, you'll want to look at getting involved in one of our teams/projects such as the wiki effort, documentation effort, artwork effort, etc.
10:23   somerville32    Once you've made some sustained contribution, you can feel free to join the Xubuntu-team team on launchpad to become an official Xubuntu developer.
10:24   somerville32    I guess I can take some questions now :)

[NeilW] Why no games *at all* in Xubuntu as distributed?

• Currently there are no games included by default in Xubuntu but that may change in the future. I know when I first tried linux. I really enjoyed trying out the different games that came with the distro - I see it as a good icebreaker.

  [NeilW] Yes, I think that's my feeling too. You don't need everything but a few games make a nice entry to using a new machine. And for while waiting for the printer....

[C_Mooney] Will you ever impose a limit on Xubuntu - ie when will it become *too* bloated?

• We're constantly supervising and re-evaluating our goals to ensure things are kept in check. However, the end-users are the real check and balance. If people start complaining then we're ready to listen and to respond.

[jeanvial] In the future you thing include a Xubuntu distro for PC Pocket?

[maxamillion] no, it would still be a little heavy for something like a pocketpc, there are projects for pocketpcs that use gui toolkits geared for embedded systems

• That currently isn't one of our goals but I'm not counting the possibility out.

[fzap] what is the minimum hardware requirement for running xubuntu.

• minimum for a _usable_ installion would be 200Mhz w/ 64mb of ram (128mb of ram recommended) My main box is a 333mhz w/ 128mb of ram It runs ok but it can get bogged down if I run too many heavy applications due to lack of ram.

< Bourlotieris> Will there be any Beryl effects in Xubuntu Feisty as is planned for Ubuntu (GNOME) ?

• There is a compositor built into Xfce4 and it can be enabled in Edgy.

< jjtec1> Any particular times more busy than others in the irc?

• In the evening, Xubuntu can get very busy. I'm not sure if I could give you an exact time though.

< tictacaddict> Xubuntu seems to get left out sometimes in news updates, how-to's, wiki entries, etc. People will mention Ubuntu and Kubuntu but leave out Xubuntu. Is that because it's relatively new? Because people don't like XFCE? What? I feel like it isn't getting the coverage it deserves.

• It isn't because people don't like Xfce, just that Xubuntu is still new. I've been making a personal effort to get people more Xubuntu aware. To get Xubuntu the coverage, people need to show interest.

< bruenig> What sort of criteria is used to weigh efficiency and productivity. Are there applications that you rule out because they are just too resource intensive even if they provide a significant productivity boost. And are there things you include because of productivity even though they are more resource hungry than lighter alternatives. Ideally you would

• [maxamillion] liketo get maximum productivity while keeping it light weight

< bruenig> ht but how do you weigh those two things when they are in conflict to make a decision on what to include?

• Thats a major concern for us too. For example, Xubuntu doesn't include open office by default. We instead include an alternative office suite. We're always looking to improve the balance and contribute upstream

< jjtec1> are any [programming] language skills better than others in Xubuntu?

• Well, I know a lot of us like python. [maxamillion] C and python are generally the most common ... xfce and alot of its applications are written in C/C++

< jjtec1> Can a 1st year c++ student be any help?

• Ofcourse!

< jjtec1> I am a student and used equipment is the normal for me, will xfce continue to work on keeping wieght down to a minimum?

• It is one our primary selling points and focuses.

does Xubuntu have any official ties to Canonical?

• Xubuntu is an official sister project such as Kubuntu and Edubuntu. I personally feel that Xubuntu is very easy to get involved with

<tictacaddict> The xfwm4 compositor doesn't seem to be available since I upgraded to edgy. Was it intentionally disabled (and why?) or is that just a problem on my end? If it's enabled and I'm just missing something... sorry/nevermind!

• As I haven't personally upgraded to Edgy, I'll ask max or TheSheep to answer this one. However, it is my understanding that you must enable it. If you need any help, feel free to ask for support in #xubuntu.

<bruenig> What sort of criteria is used to weigh efficiency and productivity. Are there applications that you rule out because they are just too resource intensive even if they provide a significant productivity boost. And are there things you include because of productivity even though they are more resource hungry than lighter alternatives. Ideally you would like to get maximum productivity while keeping it but how do you weigh those two things when they are in conflict to make a decision on what to include?

• We discuss the pros and cons on the mailing list. We look at
  • "How does this benefit the user?" "How resource intensive is the application?" "What are the alternatives?"

<fliegenderfrosch> Is there a list anywhere with features planned for feisty?

• We're currently still working on drawing up most of the initial specifications. However, Feel free to check out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications. And you can even contribute by sharing your ideas for improvements to Xubuntu Feisty Fawn on the wiki. Xubuntu is still young. Xubuntu is still developing. We're currently looking for dedicated individuals who'd like to help. And we're constantly trying to make sure that the process of getting involved is as easy as possible (and it is easy). There is so many leadership positions that need filling, so much that people can get involved with.

< TLE> Newbie question here. Will installing a non GTK2 app slow the system down (on low-end machines) even when it is not run because extra stuff have to be loaded at boottime or something like that?

• Good question. IT really depends on what you install. Some applications start at boot And they WILL slow things down. However, other applications will only slow things down when running [maxamillion] it will slow the machine down only when using that application because the libraries required for it will be used but once the application has terminated, the memory used to support it and the loaded libraries will be reclaimed by the system There is the option of enabling gnome and kde services within the control panel. Some applications require these. Some won't run without them. But for sure they'll slow your system down. And also make the applications take longer to load at times if the nessary libs aren't already loaded. [maxamillion] gnome libs are more forgiving then kde ones under xubuntu so when in need of an application, chose the gnome variation over kde whenever possible

<devilsadvocate> Why does xubuntu use gdm instead of xdm?

• xdm doesn't really have all the required features, mainly the accessibility ones

< jjtec1> is GTK2.0 used for xfce?

• Yup.

<JKnife> why the different names for eatch DE?

• Well, the different desktop environments use different names to help distinguish themselves. If all the DE shared the same name, it would cause confusion for sure.

< jjtec1> doesn't KDE use the QT environment ?

• It uses the QT lib, yup. [apokryphos] KDE is based on the Q-toolkit, yeah.

< arualavi> you say that xdm don't have all of the required features, the same with wdm?

• Currently we feel gdm is the best option because of the feature set plus because it is support by the Ubuntu team. However, IF you see a good reason for us to switch, feel free to bring it up on the mailing list.

  [TheSheep] I don't really know much about wdm. Gdm has been tweaked to remove the gnome dependencies, and after that is pretty light.

< JKnife> How can I get involved in Xubuntu documentation?

• Good question. Documentation is an important part of any distro. Unfortunatly, Xubuntu is sort of lacking in this department. However, we're always looking for individuals to help in our documentation efforts. I would recommend getting involved with the ubuntu docs team and focusing your efforts on documenting Xubuntu. You'll also find contact information on the wiki and at http://xubuntu.org/devel

< TLE> Could you tell us a little bit about the common desktop app's that is part of Xubuntu. What they can and how good they are compared to their GNOME/KDE counterparts

• Good question. We constantly trying to improve the set of applications we install by default. We look at performance, feature set, alternatives, etc. It is always improving. Personally... I enjoyed the set of applications installed by default because I know they'll be lightweight enough that I don't end up pulling my hair out.

  [TheSheep] Thunar is the file manager -- it's very fast compared to Nautilus, but has most of the important features

  Good example, TheSheep. Personally, I prefer Thunar to Nautilus.

  [TheSheep] Abiword is the text processor -- it's a little simplier than OO Writer, but also supports .doc and .rtf files. mousepad is the plain text editor -- compared to gedit2 it's very simple -- no syntax highlighting, etc. -- just text editing

[JKnife] Will Xubuntu ever get shipit support?

• We're working to get shipit support.

[TLE] How about IM, and internet browser, and multimedia apps ?

• [TheSheep] we use firefox for internet browsing and gaim for im, just like ubuntu. there are no alternatives with similar feature set, or at least we coudn't find any. we use Thunaderbird instead of Evolution though

11:07   somerville32    Btw, Installing Xubuntu from Ubuntu is very easy
11:07   somerville32    apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
11:07   maxamillion     or aptitude install xubuntu-desktop for those who prefer aptitude
11:07   somerville32    Feel free to see http://xubuntu.org/devel for more information about getting involved with Xubuntu!

[tictacaddict] xubuntu comes with gxine for multimedia, correct?

• In Edgy, yes. [no1z] And the player is xfmedia in Dapper

[stani] How about samba/network support?

• Thats something we hope to improve for Feisty.

  [stani] Great, it is the only thing for still needing nautilus from time to time. [maxamillion] that is actually our biggest area of fallback at the moment, there are ways to create samba shares and such, but to browse them you must follow tutorials found in the forums because it is not yet a feature of Thunar

<tictacaddict> Why the switch from xfmedia to gxine anyway? They are a little different but xfmedia seemed to work okay

• xfmedia isn't as mature as gxine and it uses a better backend. [maxamillion] stani: and if you really feel the need you can install xffm4 which is the old xfce file manager before thunar and that has samba browse support

11:10   somerville32    Welp, I think my wrists are getting sore.
11:11   somerville32    I'd like to thank everyone for coming out.
11:11   somerville32    Lots of good questions
11:11   somerville32    I'd love to see you guys all get involved! :D
11:14   somerville32    See you all on xubuntu-devel !! :)