lpcommunity

Ubuntu Open Community - Community support with Launchpad - Alan Pope and Francis Lacoste - Wed, Apr 25, 2007

TZ UTC-4 

(03:05:08 PM) popey: Greetings one and all, this session is all about the Launchpad Support tracker
(03:05:18 PM) popey: <intro type="standard">
(03:05:18 PM) popey: My name is Alan Pope, I'm an Ubuntu user just like most of you. I don't work for Canonical, I'm not a developer, I can't really code, have no artistic skills whatsoever. It's not looking good is it!?
(03:05:22 PM) popey: </intro>
(03:05:27 PM) popey: I just happen to have used Ubuntu quite a bit as a user and home-system administrator when I discovered the support tracker last year, and I decided to contribute to the community by helping out with that.
(03:05:37 PM) ***popey pokes flacoste 
(03:05:41 PM) flacoste: And my name is Francis Lacoste. I work for Canonical as lead developer of the Launchpad Answer Tracker.
(03:05:58 PM) popey: * Introductions to Answers
(03:06:03 PM) popey: "Answers" is the Launchpad support tracker: http://answers.launchpad.net/ .
(03:06:21 PM) popey: It's a web based system allowing users to post questions which are hopefully answered by experienced users. The people answering the questions are Ubuntu users (and sometimes developers) who give their own time to answer the questions. It should be noted that there is no Service Level Agreement (SLA) and no obligation for people to reply.
(03:06:58 PM) popey: Whilst the code and hosting of Answers in Launchpad is provided by Canonical, the data (questions and answers) is provided by users, developers and as such I believe that it is vital the community get involved.
(03:07:24 PM) popey: There's two ways to access the support tracker, via the web and via email. You can use either or both methods to access.
(03:07:49 PM) popey: Some people think of Answers as a simple forum in that people post a new thread (ticket/question) and other people answer it (reply) via a web page. Most forums fulfil this basic functionality. Many of the usual things you find in forums are not there however (signatures, avatars and so on).
(03:08:12 PM) popey: Some people consider Answers to be like a simple mailing list. People post a new question on the website which is sent out via email to subscribers who can reply to that mail. Further replies are also sent out to users and as such a conversation "thread" can happen as it does on mailing lists.
(03:08:38 PM) popey: So if you are familiar with either a forum or a mailing list, then using Answers should make sense to you.
(03:09:01 PM) popey: It's worth pointing out that it should not be thought of as a real-time chat system like IRC. Users can post questions and the answer may not come for hours or days, or never at all in the worst case. There have been occasions where people post questions and then within a few minutes start replying themselves asking why they haven't got an answer yet.
(03:09:37 PM) popey: I put this down to familiarity with the system, and usually send a polite reply explaining in one or two lines how the system works, or point to a wiki page explaining it.
(03:10:05 PM) popey: You can subscribe to the support tracker via email so you get sent all questions and answers as plain text emails to your launchpad primary email account. You can reply to the questions directly via email by simply hitting reply in your browser. If you use email, your own email address is masked to prevent spam, and stop people mailing support contacts directly.
(03:10:38 PM) popey: Your reply goes back to the support tracker mail account and then back out to the original question poster, and anyone else subscribed to that ticket.
(03:11:08 PM) popey: Each mail has a link which takes you directly to the ticket. You can click the links in the mail and answer the question on the website rather than reply to the mail.
(03:11:27 PM) popey: Be warned that if you subscribe to all the support tickets, you will get an awful LOT of mail (around 100 or more a day). It's often hundreds of mails a day, so if you want to help out I suggest either configuring some good filtering, or simply use the second option which is to use the answers website only, and not receive.
(03:12:00 PM) popey: Note that even if you don't subscribe to the tracker to get all mails from all tickets, you will still get mails from tickets that you answer via the website. You can of course unsubscribe, or choose not to receive mail deliveries from tickets you have answered.
(03:12:24 PM) popey: You don't have to subscribe to all the mail of course, in fact not many people do. You can just subscribe to the tickets you are helping on, or ones that you might have an interest in - for example if you are also experiencing the same problem and want to follow how the problem is fixed.
(03:12:50 PM) popey: Ok, lets take a break and answer a couple of questions...

<habeeb> QUESTION: Why not use the _forums_?

  • <popey> Answers is tightly integrated into launchpad, so you can for example easily link to bugs, or create bug reports out of tickets. (which you can't do on the forums) I suspect flacoste will talk about some other new features in a bit in answers too

    <flacoste> Answers has additional advantages over forums too

    • a) It tracks the status of the question, soyou know what still needs answer b) when asking a new question, users get a list of similar questions first

      c) launchpad karma Smile :-)

    <popey> in addition I can get the support tickets as mails and reply to those mails to help people. this is something forums cannot do. you can assign your ticket to a product/project so that developers of that product/project can focus on answering those tickets

    <flacoste> and from the Launchpad perspective, the Answer Tracker can be used for any Launchpad-hosted project

    <popey> the forums are massive. the developers would have a hard time trawling through the forums looking for support questions IMO. it's easy in answers, there is one url to go to for all outstanding questions for one product

< kunstar> Question: So how is LP answers different to the ubuntu forums? Why should I use LP and not the forum or vice versa?

  • <popey> one of the problems with all support systems - forums and answers alike, is that you have no way of knowing whether the person answering the question actually has a clue what they are talking about. ok, forums have the coffee beans so you can see how many posts they have made, which gives you some level of confidence. launchpad has karma as flacoste says, and you can easily look someone up and see what teams they are in, what they have done, so you can assess their credentials and decide whether you want to take their advice or not.

< habeeb> QUESTION: Couldn't ubuntuforums get hacked to be able to do that? I mean, creating a whole section in the Launchpad sounds unnecessary to me..

  • <popey> you would need to speak to the forums guys about that. given that answers is clearly a strategic part of launchpad, which is a strategic part of the development and support process of Ubuntu, I don't see why it would necessarily go away or be replaced by the forums especially as that would put flacoste out of a job Smile :)

< niekie> QUESTION: Does answering questions on Launchpad answers affect Launchpad karma? 

(03:22:26 PM) popey: ok, back to the notes..
(03:22:40 PM) popey: As answers is part of launchpad this means there are launchpad features we can make use of.
(03:23:05 PM) popey: From within the answer tracker you can link a support ticket to an existing bug (or bugs), or convert a support ticket into a bug report. If you just type "BUG 1" it will automatically become a link to that bug in launchpad for example
(03:23:21 PM) popey: Answers are language dependent. A user can report a problem in their own language and get replies in the same language.
(03:23:45 PM) popey: Ok. a little about actually using answers..
(03:24:05 PM) popey: https://answers.launchpad.net/ - base URL for answers, which allows you to see all questions for all products registered in launchpad.
(03:24:19 PM) popey: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu - URL for Ubuntu specific support tickets. Within this are the packages that make up the Ubuntu distribution. NOTE: This includes Kubuntu and Xubuntu packages too. There is no specific answers URL for Kubuntu/Xubuntu (that I am aware of)
(03:24:37 PM) popey: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad - URL for Launchpad specific support tickets. If you discover a problem in the answer tracker in launchpad itself, you can file support ticket here.
(03:25:01 PM) popey: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+addquestion - Direct link to ask a new question. I paste this on irc when people ask support questions in inappropriate channels.
(03:25:22 PM) popey: And the next one is the most important url..
(03:25:28 PM) popey: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+questions?field.status=Open - Direct link to currently open questions - PLEASE take a look at some and see if you can answer it!
(03:25:40 PM) popey: s/it/them
(03:25:56 PM) popey: Unfortunately not all questions get answered
(03:26:07 PM) popey: This is of course a problem for all support systems - hopefully as the answer tracker becomes more well known, we can reduce the number of open, and unsolved tickets. We can also help some beginners with a little googling and pointing them in the right direction.
(03:26:23 PM) mallux left the room.
(03:26:27 PM) popey: If you don't know the answer I would recommend _not_ replying with "I don't know". We don't really want answers flooded with "I don't know"s on loads of tickets, and if you do answer, they lose their "open" status, so it's difficult to get an overview of completely unanswered tickets.
(03:27:07 PM) popey: Some questions may converted to bugs. Most are just answered with a link to the wiki, forums, documentation or a 3rd party site like linuxprinting.org or debian-administration.org :)
(03:27:27 PM) popey: If replying via mail, make sure your mail client sends plain text, wraps text nicely, and you trim out the original text.
(03:30:29 PM) popey: * Tips on how to find answers to questions you don't know the answer to already
(03:30:29 PM) popey: Start with the wiki! Do a search in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ for the computer name, product, model number or whatever detail you have been given. There is a surprising amount of information in the wiki which is in the format of easy to understand How-Tos. Don't copy and paste the contents, direct users to the specific page or pages that may help.
(03:30:29 PM) popey: Google is your friend! You would be amazed how many tickets are solved by simply searching google for the error message. I am not suggesting you find the first hit and paste it in, take a moment to read a few of the hits on google and see which best suits.
(03:30:30 PM) popey: Please don't tell people to google. This doesn't help them. Many people don't understand how to search, and throwing them JFGI, RTFM or the URL to google is NOT going to win them over.
(03:30:30 PM) popey: Try things out yourself! For example some questions ask about how to compile or install some oddball 3rd party application which isn't in the repository. First thing of course is make sure it really *isn't* in the repository. If it is, that's a quick win! If it isnt then maybe you could try downloading the source and try yourself.
(03:30:30 PM) popey: This may confirm problems the questioner has, and maybe you could file a bug
(03:30:30 PM) popey: Alternatively it could be that they missed some step that you can tell them about.
(03:30:30 PM) popey: Send people to the wiki wherever possible - if you detail a procedure, then someone else in 6 months time may come to find that via google, and it may no longer be a valid set of steps. The wiki is editable and in theory should be updated when procedures change, as such we should direct people there instead wherever possible.
(03:30:51 PM) popey: * Finally, some specific common issues
(03:30:57 PM) popey: Some questions come up all the time.
(03:31:05 PM) popey: "I need a driver for my printer"
(03:31:15 PM) popey:  - take a look at http://linuxprinting.org/ for a good compatibility list, try the vendors website - some do actually have Linux .ppd drivers
(03:31:22 PM) popey: "How do I get my video card working"
(03:31:40 PM) popey:   - use the wiki! There are now very few video cards that are tricky to get going under Linux, and the ones that are, are most often documented pretty well
(03:31:47 PM) popey: "My wifi card doesn't work"
(03:31:58 PM) popey:  - Again, the _vast_ majority of cards are either directly supported in Linux, require ndiswrapper or madwifi to make them work. The wiki is the best place to start here.
(03:32:14 PM) popey: "You all suck and I want to rant about it!"
(03:32:31 PM) popey:  - Try to calm the person down and figure out what the real problem they have is. Often it's the cumulation of a number of little niggles that sends them over the edge. Remember the Code of Conduct :)
(03:32:41 PM) popey: "My screen resolution is wrong"
(03:32:51 PM) popey:  - I see this probably at least 2 or 3 times a week. Usually it's just a case of dropping to a terminal and reconfiguring x, but some hand-holding is often useful as the terminal is a scary place for beginners.
(03:32:57 PM) popey:  
(03:33:18 PM) popey: Ok, that's all my prepared material, how about I answer a few questions, then maybe flacoste can talk about new features coming up

< spd106> QUESTION: Does the proprietary nature of launchpad and I'm assuming answers too, prevent better integration with ubuntuforums?

  • <popey> Personally I (and the ubuntu forums admins) don't think ubuntu forums and launchpad will ever integrate fully. the technologies and aims are so very different. the forums have a very low barrier to entry, are popular with new users and have a massive base of users and some really committed experts. BUT it isn't integrated into launchpad, and other features flacoste will talk about (and already has) are missing and aren't likely to ever appear in the forums

    <flacoste> i may add a little here. someone raise that integration issue on the launchpad-users mailing list a while ago. Launchpad will grow better XMLRPC interface in the future, so displaying of LP content in the forums will be possible. btw, is the ubuntuforums free-sotfware?

< salty-horse> QUESTION: how do I subscribe to receive all question related to a specific package?

< kunstar> QUESTION: So does this mean it would be better for the community if I were to ask questions in LP instead of the forums?

  • <popey> tricky one to answer. the community is a big place and includes all those thousands of people in the forums. if you answer questions on the forums, or on launchpad, google will find it. in the future people can google and thus find your answers wherever they are. however, the integration in launchpad makes that easier. want to find all the problems with a package...? https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ < insert package name here > /+questions. so you can look back quickly through all the questions for one package. with the forums you would have to search to find that the data in launchpad is very structured, the data in the forums isnt (as well structured) (imo)

    <flacoste> i think either place is good, what is important for the community is that questions get answered wherever they are but of course, I would suggest you use the Answer Tracker, but I have a conflict of interest there

< kunstar> QUESTION: So does this mean it would be better for the community if I were to ask questions in LP instead of the forums?

< robertj> popey: QUESTION: Is there _ever_ a time I don't know should be used?

  • <popey> yes. I have used it myself when i have had an exchange of question and answers on one ticket and they finally exhaust my knowledge (this does happen Smile :) ) i may finally say "I am sorry, I don't know" in the hope someone else will answer but for a brand new question, no, there is no reason to reply "I dont know" in my opinion, it doesn't really benefit anyone

< Treenaks> QUESTION: Does gpg-signed mail work?

  • <popey> dunno, I guess so given i have replied and all my mails are GPG signed by default

    <flacoste> GPG-signed email work, but signature isn't required. you just have to post from a registered email address

< kunstar> QUESTION: LP answers sounds great and I'll definitely be using it from now on, but if you had to estimate, how much of the knowledge that is contained within the forums is currently encapsulated within LP answers?

  • <popey> I better off sticking to the forums until LP Answers gets more beefed up with content? thats a paradox isnt it|? if everyone waited until there was knowledge there would be no knowledge Personally I prefer answers... for me it works well, I can answer support questions from anywhere that i have access to email 

(03:46:59 PM) popey: flacoste: do you want to outline some new funky features?
(03:47:26 PM) flacoste: Ok, so some future developments we are considering for the Answer Tracker:
(03:47:36 PM) flacoste: We will add more knowledge base features.
(03:48:04 PM) flacoste: It will be possible to manage 'FAQ-type' of answers.
(03:48:20 PM) flacoste: One tricky issue here is how to leverage the existing Ubuntu community material (forums, wiki, etc.)
(03:49:13 PM) flacoste: We are also looking into improving the display of users credentials.
(03:49:27 PM) flacoste: To make it easier to know to access the confidence you can have in someone answer.
(03:49:49 PM) flacoste: You currently have to look-up the user' karma yourself now.
(03:50:43 PM) flacoste: Another great thing about the Answer Tracker is that it is multi-languages.
(03:50:57 PM) flacoste: You can already post and answer questions in your native language.
(03:51:18 PM) flacoste: But the UI isn't localized yet, we want to fix that now.
(03:52:32 PM) flacoste: In sketchy lines, that's what is currently in the pipeline.
(03:52:50 PM) popey: Groovy
(03:52:55 PM) flacoste: If you have any suggestion or encounter any problems, please file a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-answers/
(03:53:11 PM) flacoste: feel free also to ping me in #launchpad if you want to discuss your idea with me
(03:53:20 PM) flacoste: or post to the launchpad-users mailing list
(03:53:38 PM) flacoste: Any more questions?
(03:53:40 PM) popey: I guess answers is turning more into a helpdesk system than a forum/mailing list with those new features
(03:53:49 PM) flacoste: that's exactly the plan
(03:53:52 PM) popey: so it should be easier to make the comparision between answers and ubuntuforums
(03:54:00 PM) popey: and be able to easily *see* the difference :)
(03:54:46 PM) popey: Ok, if there are no more questions, than thanks everyone for listening, thanks to flacoste, and click here--> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+questions?field.status=Open  :)

MeetingLogs/openweekfeisty/lpcommunity (last edited 2008-08-06 16:16:29 by localhost)