AskMark

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Ubuntu Open Week - Ask Mark - Mark Shuttleworth - Wed, Oct 24, 2007

16:09 <+sabdfl> salut indeed!
16:09 < fetova> hi :)
16:09  * tuxmaniac waves from India to sabdfl 
16:09 < madrazr> Good Evening sabdfl
16:09 <+sabdfl> jono: all systems go?
16:09 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-z] by PriceChild
16:09 < no_mind> sabdfl, hello!
16:09 < OrcoFortran> Good morning :) ET time USA
16:09 < jono> sabdfl: yes indeed
16:09 <+sabdfl> PriceChild: roll on
16:10 <@PriceChild> <jimbo> QUESTION: will canonical rais the suport for LoCos?
16:10 <+sabdfl> jimbo: are there specific things you have in mind?
16:10 < jimbo> disc
16:10 <+sabdfl> i think we do quite a bit already, wrt hosting, cd's, events
16:11 <+sabdfl> we looked at sending cd's to loco teams for redistribution, but it didn't work well in the end
16:11 <+sabdfl> but we do respond to some requests
16:11 <+sabdfl> we can't send everything requested, it would cost millions
16:11 <+sabdfl> and we would rather support more floss development
16:11 <+sabdfl> PriceChild: next?
16:11 <@PriceChild> <hendrixski> QUESTION: What grand plans do you have for Ubuntu on the Mobile and embedded platform?
16:12 <+sabdfl> that's a very exciting project
16:12 <+sabdfl> linux is going to be in every home, and office, in the form of consumer electronics
16:12 <+sabdfl> it started with set-top boxes
16:12 <+sabdfl> but now a lot of electronics is powerful enough to run linux
16:12 <+sabdfl> and soon, that will all go mobile
16:13 <+sabdfl> so, not so much grand plans as providing a reliable platform for people to build great products
16:13 <+sabdfl> bring the best of ubuntu - free software, free license, standard platform with apt and security updates, to that community
16:13 <+sabdfl> ok?
16:13 <+sabdfl> next!
16:13 <@PriceChild> <savvas> QUESTION: (in a good sense) Why Debian instead of all the beautiful distros? What made you choose this one particularly? Is it the packaging capabilities/administration or the community that would most probably grow as the years go by? :)
16:14 <+sabdfl> first, the philosophy of (a) license precision, (b) freedom, (c) quality
16:14 <+sabdfl> that makes debian unique - it's a superb forum for building a shared, common platform
16:14 <+sabdfl> and we want to be part of a broader community like that
16:14 <+sabdfl> second, because I have been a DD since 1996 :-)
16:14 <+sabdfl> third, because of the breadth of packages
16:14 <+sabdfl> our relationship with debian is very important, and we work hard at it
16:15 <+sabdfl> sometimes i'm disappointed by individuals there, but in general i still think it's a good partnership
16:15 <+sabdfl> and i think we give a lot back
16:15 <+sabdfl> which people often don't measure
16:15 <+sabdfl> but i think we contribute more to debian than any other organisation, or derivative, so i feel good about it
16:15 <+sabdfl> next!
16:15 <@PriceChild> <dee> QUESTION: Hi Mark. I know UDS is some days ahead but do you already have a "plan" for Hardy in mind? Or will it just be a LTS-release?
16:15 <+sabdfl> :-)
16:16 <+sabdfl> the plan is only ever complete after UDS
16:16 <+sabdfl> i know server and mobile will both get a lot of attention
16:16 <+sabdfl> with folks from upstream, partners, customers etc all there to talk about them
16:16 <+sabdfl> LTS is very important - it does influence how we run the release and plan features
16:17 <+sabdfl> as for specifics - come to Boston next week!
16:17 <+sabdfl> next!
16:17 < Realvz> What is Ubuntu doing to attract more vendors and make ubuntu laptops and desktops more available to general public...to people who havent even heard of Linux or even M$
16:17 < jack_>  /quit
16:17 <@PriceChild> <hendrixski> QUESTION: What kinds of partnership opportunities with Canonical are available to entrepreneurs who want to start a business, and use Linux in their office and/or in their product (i.e. a phone or an appliance)?
16:17 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+m] by PriceChild
16:17 < popey> Realvz: questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat prefixed by QUESTION: please
16:17 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o Hobbsee] by ChanServ
16:17 <@PriceChild> Realvz, questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please
16:17 <+sabdfl> We have a range of partner programs - training, engineering, oem, isv, ihv
16:17 <+sabdfl> and others too
16:18 <+sabdfl> best person to speak with is Malcolm Yates - malcolm.yates@canonical.com
16:18 <+sabdfl> next?
16:18 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o Hobbsee] by ChanServ
16:18 <@PriceChild> <no_mind> QUESTION: how do you guys measure the popularity of ubuntu ? I mean what metrics are used
16:18 <+sabdfl> we have some visibility on downloads
16:18 <+sabdfl> more than 1 million people came to ubuntu.com/download last week :-)
16:19 <+sabdfl> but remember, we have 300 mirrors
16:19 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o Hobbsee] by ChanServ
16:19 <+sabdfl> so that's only a limited view
16:19 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+z] by Hobbsee
16:19 <+sabdfl> we don't have any registration or hidden monitoring
16:19 <+sabdfl> but ubuntu machines, like any OS "look slightly different" on the net
16:19 <+sabdfl> apache server tag lines, or browser lines
16:19 <+sabdfl> and so ubuntu users leave a footprint, and we can measure growth pretty accurately
16:19 <+sabdfl> needless to say the community continues to grow at a phenomenal pace
16:20 <+sabdfl> next!
16:20 <@PriceChild> <mzungu_> QUESTION Hi Mark - Of major importance to the growth of Ubuntu and Linux in general is hardware compatibility.  Is the message getting across to the hardware manufacturers?
16:20 <+sabdfl> yes!
16:20 <+sabdfl> partly, announcements like Dell's and other OEM's help there
16:20 <+sabdfl> people who provide them with components want to say "hey, our stuff works with Linux too!"
16:20 <+sabdfl> also, the fact that consumer electronics (which have a lot of Linux work going on) and PC's are converging, helps
16:21 <+sabdfl> if you make a bluetooth chip, you might as well sell that to a smartphone manufacturer, who could well have linux, as a laptop manufacturer, with windows
16:21 <+sabdfl> that helps a lot
16:21 <+sabdfl> next?
16:21 <@PriceChild> <poningru> QUESTION: will ubuntu participate in any of the hardware projects apart from intels? i.e olpc or openmoko
16:22 <+sabdfl> i would love to have participated in OLPC but we were excluded by them, mainly i think because we were babies in the same cot, we were very new when they started
16:22 <+sabdfl> perhaps that opportunity will come around again
16:22 <+sabdfl> it's a beautiful project
16:22 <+sabdfl> were not heavily involved with openmoko, though i think their work is super
16:22 <+sabdfl> next?
16:23 <@PriceChild> <hendrixski> QUESTION: Many of us used to read your blog at markshuttleworth.com, it had a ton of great insight into more than just Ubuntu, but into Open Source and the computer industry as a whole.  It was so inspiring.  And then it just stopped for the last 3 months. What happened? Will we see more?
16:23 <+sabdfl> mea culpa, i've just been engrossed in the rest of life
16:23 <+sabdfl> i haven't stopped writing, just trying to catch up on email
16:23 <+sabdfl> next?
16:23 <@PriceChild> <Jucato> QUESTION: there have been press statements in the past about you and Canonical giving more support to Kubuntu and KDE, like hiring KDE/Kubuntu developers, raising Kubuntu's status, etc. Any updates on those?
16:24 <+sabdfl> i would love to do everything simultaneously in Ubuntu and Kubuntu, but we can't
16:24 <+sabdfl> that would take *more* than double the resources
16:24 <+sabdfl> because of coordination
16:24 <+sabdfl> i think the Kubuntu team does a superb job
16:24 <+sabdfl> both in terms of keeping up, adding new features, and quality
16:24 <@Hobbsee> hooray Riddell!
16:24 <+sabdfl> indeed :-)
16:25 <+sabdfl> also, what's interesting, is that we see a lot of community participation in kubuntu in areas that Canonical does the work in ubuntu
16:25 <+sabdfl> so perhaps it's better this way? the community feels a lot of ownership there, and i'd be loathe to lose that
16:25 <+sabdfl> we also see amazing participation in ubuntu, more and more core devs in ubuntu are not canonical, which is exactly what i'd like to see
16:26 <+sabdfl> hopefully, some day, the majority of the MOTU council, Tech Board and CC will be non-Canonical
16:26 <+sabdfl> next?
16:26 <@PriceChild> <mmcgrath> QUESTION: How much is the Dell pre-install deal costing Canonical / install?
16:26 <+sabdfl> nada :-)
16:26 <+sabdfl> that was driven by Dell, based on demand from their customers
16:26 <+sabdfl> we get the opportunity to sell support, which is great
16:27 <+sabdfl> but we don't pay them to install it, and they don't pay us unless the customer buys support
16:27 <+sabdfl> so go on, recommend those machines *with support* to your mates please!
16:27 <+sabdfl> next?
16:27 <@PriceChild> <davmor2> QUESTION: Mark Have things gone to plan so far?
16:27 <+sabdfl> no :-)
16:27 <+sabdfl> i didn't expect us to have the mobile initiative, for example, that was a great opportunity that was unexpected
16:28 <+sabdfl> some things have taken longer, but most things have grown faster than i dreamed
16:28 <+sabdfl> i think we all wanted to build this, but we didn't know if people really needed it or wanted it
16:28 <+sabdfl> that much is clear now :-)
16:28 <+sabdfl> next?
16:28 <@PriceChild> <slytherin> QUESTION: Whatever happened to 'Free Software Laptop'? Do you think PPC a feasible architecture for that?
16:28 <@PriceChild> <ridgid2> QUESTION:has there been enough interest in a Free software laptop? have any laptop/desktop vender's been contacted or currently working on making this a reality that you know of?
16:29 <+sabdfl> slytherin: PPC is in a tricky position for consumer or developer hardware right now
16:29 <+sabdfl> hard to see how they would amortise the cost of development across a small demand base
16:29 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+v mdomsch] by Hobbsee
16:29 <+sabdfl> i think its more likely that a large manufacturer adopts that as a standard requirement
16:29 <+sabdfl> for example, LinuxBIOS and free-software-friendly components
16:29 <+sabdfl> it's getting easier and easier
16:30 <+sabdfl> as far as I know, it is not yet a real plan
16:30 <+sabdfl> as soon as it is, i will send details to a list that folks are signing up to, that currently sees zero traffic (deliberately)
16:30 <+sabdfl> next?
16:30 <@PriceChild> <Muzik-qa> QUESTION: Have you considered advertising for Ubuntu (either through traditional and expensive media -- think of the firefox page ad in the New York Times), or through other means (a funny yet informative ad, which could be the next youtube/email forward/word of mouth hit)?  What about an advertising partnership with one of the hardware providers, like Dell.
16:31 <+sabdfl> we have considered that, but with some exceptions we prefer to spend money on development, so it gets better and better, and folks talk about it for that reason
16:31 <+sabdfl> next?
16:31 <@PriceChild> <Otenkiya> QUESTION: What is Canonical doing to bring the word to people like, say, my mom, who is definitely *not* aware of the F/OSS movement (Print ads, etc.)?
16:31 <@PriceChild> whoops
16:31 <@PriceChild> <savvas> QUESTION: About the mobile ubuntu, do you have any plans to cooperate with some companies? Like openmoko.com (Neo Base mobile phone) or any other company?
16:32 <+sabdfl> Otenkiya: well, ubuntu got covered in NYT, and WSJ, and Financial Times
16:32 <+sabdfl> does your Mom read any of those?
16:32 <+sabdfl> i think we are getting people excited about an alternative, and when they explore further they learn about FLOSS
16:33 <+sabdfl> savvas: OpenMoko and MID are different segments
16:33 <+sabdfl> but i'm interested in collaboration with them
16:33 <+sabdfl> just haven't had time to go and research them, or they haven't come knocking
16:33 <+sabdfl> next?
16:33 <@PriceChild> <warp10> QUESTION: I believe that videogames could be a killer application to spread Linux into the mass-market. Do yout think there is a chance that some *big* houses (like EA, for example) will ever release their top-class videogames for Ubuntu?
16:33 <+sabdfl> yes, but most likely on a linux-based console initially
16:33 <+sabdfl> PC-linux is very hard to support at scale because of fragmentation
16:34 <+sabdfl> perhaps ubuntu might be the tip of a wedge there
16:34 <+sabdfl> i don't know!
16:34 <+sabdfl> next?
16:34 <@PriceChild> <Belutz> QUESTION: sabdfl, I just had a meeting with Intel Indonesia, they want to try bundling their classmate pc with edubuntu, what should I do?
16:34 <+sabdfl> i think 8.04 edubuntu will rock with the ClassmatePC
16:34 <+sabdfl> they can do pilots with 7.10 to help shape 8.04
16:34 <+sabdfl> next?
16:34 <@PriceChild> <Gareth> QUESTION: What is your personal opinion of the direction that the commercial Linux conferences such as LinuxWorld & OSCon are going vs. some of the regional shows such as Ohio Linux Fest, Linux Fest NorthWest and Southern California Linux Expo?  And does Ubuntu plan to shift its involvment away from the commercial shows in favor of regional shows?
16:35 <+sabdfl> the ubuntu community is generally well represented at regional shows
16:35 <+sabdfl> and in many senses those are more interesting
16:35 <+sabdfl> you meet people you can maintain an ongoing relationship with, support one another, learn from one another
16:35 <+sabdfl> Canonical can only attend a relatively few events, so it's natural to focus on the bigger ones
16:36 <+sabdfl> i enjoyed OSCON a lot this year
16:36 <+sabdfl> will probably be there again
16:36 <+sabdfl> i've been on the road 60% of 2007, mostly for Ubuntu, i don't think i could go to more events
16:36 <+sabdfl> and others feel the same!
16:36 <+sabdfl> but if we can help you represent ubuntu at a local event, please ask
16:36 <+sabdfl> next?
16:36 <@PriceChild> <Mez> QUESTION: Do canonical sponsor other FLOSS projects (and/or are they willing to) other than ubuntu?
16:37 <+sabdfl> Bzr is a major one we sponsor - it's really amazing, and as of today is the fastest Python-based version control system for most projects
16:37 <+sabdfl> heh, very glad to be able to say that :-)
16:37 <+sabdfl> though i'm sure the others will all come up with new ideas too!
16:37 <+sabdfl> if you haven't tried it, bazaar-vcs.org is the place
16:38 <+sabdfl> and watch out for the next release, i think next week, which has that performance enhancement
16:38 <+sabdfl> also, lots of things related to the distro
16:38 <@Mez> sabdfl, I've tried a lot of it, trying to convince work to switch ;)
16:38 <+sabdfl> usplash, ubiquity, casper, etc
16:38 <+sabdfl> i personally also fund SchoolTool, which i think is important
16:38 <+sabdfl> and there are others too
16:38 <+sabdfl> next?
16:38 <@PriceChild> <Bonzodog> QUESTION: Have you spoken to Kevin Carmony yet now that he has announced his joining our community; he made a big thread in the forums about it
16:39 <+sabdfl> i have, he's up to interesting things and of course has a unique perspective, so i'm glad he joined the ubuntu community
16:39 <+sabdfl> and will try to fix any bugs he reports :-)
16:39 <+sabdfl> next?
16:39 <@PriceChild> <savvas> QUESTION: "our relationship with debian is very important, and we work hard at it" > do you have plans to be separated from debian in the future, as in, not to be so dependant on debian's release?
16:39 <+sabdfl> we aren't ever dependent on a debian release
16:39 <+sabdfl> but we want to stay part of the community
16:40 <+sabdfl> we collaborate around their unstable, always-moving tip, called "sid" or "unstable"
16:40 <+sabdfl> there are lots of places where we actually lead
16:40 <+sabdfl> but we have no plans to go off in a totally different direction
16:40 <+sabdfl> though, i wish debian would make it easier to collaborate with them sometimes
16:40 <+sabdfl> next?
16:41 <@PriceChild> <dee> QUESTION: Thanks for the invitation to Boston. It's a little but too far from here. But as you mentioned Ubuntu Mobile. What's the status? Can you really release a final in april next year?
16:41 <+sabdfl> dee: yes, i think our first version will release in April, with 8.04
16:41 <+sabdfl> have you tried it?
16:42 <+sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/CreatingAnImageForUMEDevice
16:42 <+sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
16:42 <+sabdfl> join the community
16:42 <+sabdfl> it's quite hard core and fun to create something like this from scratch
16:42 <+sabdfl> i think we can help to define the handheld interface of the future
16:42 <+sabdfl> next?
16:42 <@PriceChild> <_MMA_> QUESTION: Follow up the the vendor HW support question. I've heard Dell is getting drivers made but keeping them to themselves so as to make buying a Ubuntu-Dell more attractive. Is this true? They are not putting the drivers out in the wild?
16:43  * Hobbsee thinks this would be a prime question for mdomsch
16:43 <+sabdfl> as far as I know this is entirely untrue
16:43 <+mdomsch> _MMA_, I concur with sabdfl
16:43 <+sabdfl> the dell guys have been really open to working together on the desktops
16:43 <+sabdfl> and everything i've seen has been pushed out to the public repos
16:44 <+sabdfl> it's easier for everyone that way
16:44 <+sabdfl> and it helps sell more dell machines to linux lovers - both of ubuntu and other distros
16:44 <+sabdfl> next?
16:44 <@PriceChild> <mbt> QUESTION:  Grumpy Groundhog — Is it going to become a reality?
16:44 <+sabdfl> mbt: i sure hope so! have you heard of PPAs?
16:44 <+sabdfl> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
16:45 <@PriceChild> <mbt> sabdfl: Yep.
16:45 <+sabdfl> this is a way to take any package in ubuntu, change it, and send it to us for building and packaging
16:45 <+sabdfl> essentially, it allows anyone to have a public apt archive
16:45 <+sabdfl> you can build against any ubuntu release
16:45 <+sabdfl> either brand new packages
16:45 <+sabdfl> or modified ubuntu ones
16:45 <+sabdfl> hopefully, that's the start of Grumpy
16:46 <+sabdfl> [for those not in the know, Grumpy is about building daily packages from upstream]
16:46 <+sabdfl> but PPAs totally rock
16:46 <+sabdfl> a superb way to learn about packaging
16:46 <+sabdfl> or just to Get Stuff Done
16:46 <+sabdfl> or test patches you want to submit to your friends or Ubuntu or Debian
16:46 <+sabdfl> enjoy!
16:46 <+sabdfl> next?
16:46 <@PriceChild> <Pici> QUESTION: Compiz by default was a 'gutsy' thing to do for 7.10.  What do you think the next big thing will be for the Ubuntu Desktop?
16:46 <+sabdfl> interesting...
16:47 <+sabdfl> i wonder if virtualisation on the desktop is that far away
16:47 <+sabdfl> at the moment, it's mostly a server thing
16:47 <+sabdfl> but it's huge
16:47 <+sabdfl> and i suspect there's a desktop angle waiting in the wings
16:47 <+sabdfl> xen, or kvm, are very cool
16:48 <+sabdfl> so thats something to explore
16:48 <+sabdfl> also, perhaps, finding some commonality between the mobile world and the desktop / laptop world
16:48 <+sabdfl> really pushing the UI harder
16:48 <+sabdfl> next?
16:48 <@PriceChild> <dorto> QUESTION: RMS recently appealed to RadioHead users to pressurise them to provide media in Ogg version too. Do you think such targeted campaigns with the support of users of such services (i.e. not Ubuntu-friendly) will help or hinder Ubuntu's cause?
16:48 <+sabdfl> help, definitely
16:49 <+sabdfl> free software is part of a broader movement, of collaboration, sharing and services
16:49 <+sabdfl> so, raising the profile of one raises the profile of all
16:49 <+sabdfl> i would love to see the world switch to ogg
16:49 <+sabdfl> there's lots of engineers at SONY or Creative that don't realise how great .ogg is
16:49 <+sabdfl> and that you can have genuinely awesome tech freely available for the whole industry
16:49 <+sabdfl> that's the future
16:50 <+sabdfl> so we need to encourage people to explore that future, in all fields
16:50 <+sabdfl> next?
16:50 <@PriceChild> <deandelponte> QUESTION:  Has the recent lawsuit by Acacia against Red Hat and Novell persuaded you to reconsider a patent deal with Microsoft?
16:50 <+sabdfl> no, not at all
16:50 <+sabdfl> remember, novell did a deal that i think was poor for free software, and they still got sued by acacia
16:51 <+sabdfl> when i last blogged about this, i pointed out that the real enemy is not microsoft
16:51 <+sabdfl> because they are NOT going to sue
16:51 <+sabdfl> the enemy is patent trolls, and here we have a good example of that coming true
16:51 <+sabdfl> so there's no additional pressure to do a bad deal with microsoft
16:52 <+sabdfl> though, i would do a good deal with microsoft, if i thought it was helpful to the cause of free software
16:52 <+sabdfl> it's not infeasible that microsoft could start to see benefits to themselves in being aligned on this issue
16:52 <+sabdfl> they settle a LOT of patent troll suits every year
16:52 <+sabdfl> next?
16:52 <@PriceChild> <Hobbsee> QUESTION: what are the next areas that you feel canonical will enter into (like mobile), in the future?  what are your dreams for that?
16:53 <+sabdfl> Hobbsee: Canonical, or Ubuntu?
16:53 <@Hobbsee> sabdfl: both, i think.
16:53 <@Hobbsee> sabdfl: pick which half you want to answer. ubuntu more so.
16:53 <+sabdfl> because the latter is now as much in the hands of our community as it is in the hands of canonical
16:53 <@Hobbsee> right, so answer the canonical half :)
16:53 <+sabdfl> i'm intrigued by the work being done by derivatives
16:53 <+sabdfl> like ubuntu studio
16:53 <+sabdfl> i think we will see that some of them take off
16:53 <+sabdfl> then we will support them more directly
16:53 <+sabdfl> like we do kubuntu
16:53 <@Hobbsee> [02:46] <_MMA_> ;)
16:53 <+sabdfl> but the community can innovate faster than we can
16:54 <+sabdfl> so, if you have a great idea, chase it down, make a derivative, use PPAs and lead the way
16:54 <+sabdfl> next?
16:54 <@PriceChild> <Solarion> QUESTION: What is Canonical going to do/doing to enable the GNOME Online Desktop?  Will Canonical be offering an online component (optionally subscription-based)?
16:54 <+sabdfl> not sure yet - it's interesting, but there are lots of different questions about how it will work
16:54 <+sabdfl> next?
16:55 <@PriceChild> <stebandido> QUESTION: If you could change something in the ubuntu project what would you change and why?
16:55 <+sabdfl> i would like to have a better relationship with debian developers, but alas i think a vocal few make that difficult
16:55 <+sabdfl> i love to see DD's who participate directly in ubuntu, and of course a lot of ubuntu devs are DD's
16:56 <+sabdfl> so that helps
16:56 <+sabdfl> next?
16:56 <@PriceChild> <savvas> QUESTION: What was it like up there, "in the skies"? Were you terrified in any of your space-flights? :)
16:56 <+sabdfl> only one space flight so far :-)
16:56 <+sabdfl> at least, in real life
16:56 <+sabdfl> lots of time in simulators :-)
16:56 <+sabdfl> never terrified, but certainly tense and focused
16:56 <+sabdfl> you are terrified the day before
16:56 <+sabdfl> when you finally decided to do it
16:57 <+sabdfl> but on the day... it's focus, focus, YEAH!
16:57 <+sabdfl> next?
16:57 <@PriceChild> <Jucato> QUESTION: Other KDE distros are now gettng a lot better. And users have been comparing Ubuntu and Kubuntu features a lot. Do you expect Kubuntu to be able to stand up to that level of quality, and if not, are there plans to address that?
16:57 <+sabdfl> i think Riddell is the best person to answer that!
16:57 <+sabdfl> i do think kubuntu is an excellent platform for kde lovers and developers
16:58 <+sabdfl> one of the first to make new technologies available
16:58 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o popey] by ChanServ
16:58 <+sabdfl> and of course it has all the hardware support that ubuntu does
16:58 < Riddell> I think we're the best of course :)
16:58 <+sabdfl> and the size of the community is amazing
16:58 <@PriceChild> <Riddell> I think we're the best of course :)
16:58 <@Hobbsee> how are we making the new technologies available, when we're often a release behind ubuntu?
16:58 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+v Riddell] by Hobbsee
16:58 <+sabdfl> but of course there will be excellence elsewhere, and that's healthy
16:58 <+sabdfl> next?
16:58 <+sabdfl> Hobbsee: KDE 4?
16:58 <+sabdfl> next?
16:58 <@PriceChild> <greg2> Question: Do you or Canonical have plans for additional revenue streams beyond selling support for Ubuntu? Firefox for example directs traffic to google directly from the browser.
16:59 <+sabdfl> yes, there are lots of services we provide
16:59 <+sabdfl> for example, we do contract engineering for people who want to modify ubuntu in specific ways
16:59 <+sabdfl> i think each of the platforms will give us multiple streams of revenue
16:59 < Solarion> and the online desktop.  ;)
16:59 <+sabdfl> which helps make ubuntu even better
16:59 <+sabdfl> next?
16:59 <@PriceChild> <Belutz> QUESTION: is it ok if we approach local laptop vendor so they have products with ubuntu preinstalled?
17:00 <+sabdfl> hell yes!
17:00 <@Hobbsee> just don't take a crowbar with you....
17:00 < Belutz> great!
17:00 <+sabdfl> and you can direct them to maria.bonnefon@canonical.com too if they have questions
17:00 <@Hobbsee> [02:52] <Belutz> great!
17:00 <+sabdfl> next?
17:00 <@PriceChild> <Mez> QUESTION: why is it that you decided to use kubuntu on your personal laptop ?
17:00 <+sabdfl> desktop
17:00 <@Mez> yeah, someone corrected me in -chat
17:00 <+sabdfl> i have other folks at home who are used to windows, and it's a bit more similar
17:00 <@Hobbsee> [02:53] <Mez> yeah, someone corrected me in -chat
17:00 <+sabdfl> also, i wanted to be familiar with both
17:01 <+sabdfl> and for development purposes, i just need a shell
17:01 <+sabdfl> and vim, of course :-)
17:01 <+sabdfl> next?
17:01 <@PriceChild> <kavoor> QUESTION: when are you planning a download  mirror for INDIA ?
17:01 <+sabdfl> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
17:02 <+sabdfl> there is one in Madras
17:02 <+sabdfl> please feel free to organise more!
17:02 <+sabdfl> write to the IT departments of universities
17:02 <+sabdfl> it's easy for them to setup both CD mirrors (for the install ISO) and archive mirrors for packages
17:02 <+sabdfl> next?
17:02 <@PriceChild> <popey> < stelt_> question(s): Do you feel there should be more of a generalized combined effort of getting free software popular, by making it even easier, next to and including Ubuntu as one of the options? What do you think of the ideas posted at http://freedomdrive.org , a general free software installer, as easy and available as possible?
17:02 <+sabdfl> i think those rock
17:03 <+sabdfl> we supported the Open CD for that reason
17:03 <+sabdfl> it's important to get people using free software on windows, for example
17:03 <+sabdfl> it familiarises them with the idea
17:03 <+sabdfl> then they say "why can't ALL software be like this"?
17:03 <+sabdfl> that's why i think Firefox and Mozilla are so important
17:03 <+sabdfl> and why i was so saddened that the Iceweasel thing was turned into such a nasty mess
17:03 <+sabdfl> next?
17:03 <@PriceChild> <bsytko> QUESTION: We are all aware of Steve Ballmer's passion for developers, do you plan to show any similar passion in the future?
17:04 <+sabdfl> yes, but i don't plan to try to match his armpits, rather buy in artificial pherome machines or somethin'
17:04 <+sabdfl> next?
17:04 <@PriceChild> <thully> QUESTION: What are your plans on improving Ubuntu's usability on laptops?  I've been running 7.10 on mine, and while it has improved there are still many rough edges (notably suspend/resume seems to break often - i.e. it worked fine in the beta but is broken in the final release).  Is there any team I can become involved in to help resolve the issues here?
17:05 <+sabdfl> kernel team, and acpi with mjg59 are good places to start
17:05 <+sabdfl> next?
17:05 <@PriceChild> <DaSkreech_> QUESTION: Would it make sense for Ubuntu to make use of cross-distro information gathering projects like smolt?
17:05 <+sabdfl> "acpi with mjg59", sounds like a cooking class!
17:05 <+sabdfl> and it is. cooking with gas :-)
17:05 < Solarion> dunno if mjg59 wants to be associated with gas per se...  ;)
17:06 <+sabdfl> DaSkreech_: sometimes, but we already have a hardware compatibility program, so not in that case
17:06 < thully> funny...  I've had problems getting much response from him, though
17:06 <+sabdfl> next?
17:06 <@Hobbsee> <marius> QUESTION: Hi Mark! On your daily computing, have you ever had a problem that Ubuntu OS couldn't solve it and you needed some application that runs on Windows or Mac OS X? If so, how did you solved that problem? :)
17:06 <+sabdfl> only thing that's on my todo list that i don't think i can do from Linux is update the firmware on my Nokia phone
17:06 <+sabdfl> i do have a Mac at home too, which I use for iTunes downloads
17:07 <+sabdfl> haven't booted windows in a LONG time
17:07 <+sabdfl> except to show people that you can in a virtual machine, under Ubuntu :-)
17:07 <+sabdfl> next?
17:07 <@PriceChild> <samgee> QUESTION: What do you think Debian can do to make it easier to collaborate with them?
17:07 <+sabdfl> i think this needs to be the last one
17:07 <@popey> you have two hours allotted
17:08 <+sabdfl> samgee: most important, don't accept flaming DD's when they talk in constructive terms about Ubuntu
17:08 <@PriceChild> popey, pm
17:08 <@popey> got it
17:08 <+sabdfl> the thing that makes our life most difficult is that DD's are afraid to talk about positive experiences or opportunities for collaboration, because some folks will flame them mercilessly, as if they were somehow traitors
17:08 <+sabdfl> which is, imo, insane
17:09 <+sabdfl> i think it will take a strong leader in debian who realises and is willing to state, publicly, that ubuntu is good for debian
17:09 <+sabdfl> we strive to take debian to places where it will not go alone
17:09 <@Hobbsee> Currently, there's effort going into a combined debian and ubuntu QA team, as well, so that the fixes get back in more effectively.
17:09 <+sabdfl> and that's good
17:09 <+sabdfl> last question?
17:09 <@popey> sabdfl: you taking a break?
17:09 <+sabdfl> oh
17:09 < kart_> Hobbsee, dct?
17:09 <@popey> sabdfl: you have another hour :)
17:09 <+sabdfl> ok, i can do longer
17:09 <@popey> <Solarion> QUESTION: Have you voted for the gibbon yet?  (http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2007/10/distro-deathmatch-werewolf-versus.html)  ;)
17:09 <@PriceChild> He's hard :)
17:09 <+sabdfl> fingers are glowing :-)
17:10  * Solarion gets Mark a sandwich
17:10 <+sabdfl> voted, thanks :-)
17:10 <+sabdfl> next?
17:10 <@popey> <thully> QUESTION: Why did you start Ubuntu in the first place instead of contributing to an already existing distribution?
17:10 <@Hobbsee> sabdfl: you'll cope.  maybe your next initiative should be irc-over-brainwaves.
17:10 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o PriceChild] by ChanServ
17:10 <+sabdfl> thully: dan frye from IBM puts it best
17:11 <+sabdfl> he's referring to the linux kernel specifically
17:12 <+sabdfl> he says that "we have separated research and development, from productisation"
17:12 <+sabdfl> (sorry, RL conversation)
17:12 < brobostigon> hi
17:12 < r3m0t> bother that real life
17:12 <+sabdfl> what he means is that the linux kernel guys, at kernel.org and on the LKML, actually care ONLY about productisation
17:12 <+sabdfl> erk
17:12 <+sabdfl> about kernel core development
17:12 <+sabdfl> while the distros care ONLY about productisation
17:12 <+sabdfl> and that's PERFECT
17:13 < thully> so why a new distro?
17:13 <+sabdfl> in a normal software company, the SAME people have to be both good at R&D, during the early phase of the product cycle, and also good at integration / QA / documentation, at the end of the cycle
17:13 <+sabdfl> but with the linux kernel, we separate those two out perfectly
17:13 <+sabdfl> so, i know Debian very well indeed
17:14 <+sabdfl> and initially i thought we might be able to do Ubuntu inside Debian, but pushing hard to narrow its focus
17:14 <+sabdfl> and then i realised that this would be a huge mistake
17:14 <+sabdfl> because, to do Ubuntu, you would need to cut out many of the things that make Debian wonderful
17:14 <+sabdfl> effectively, Debian sid is like the LKML
17:14 <+sabdfl> and we are like a distro that produces a release kernel from their work
17:15 <+sabdfl> that's actually a very powerful structure
17:15 <+sabdfl> other people also do amazing but DIFFERENT things with the output from Debian
17:15 <+sabdfl> so, this is the better way
17:15 <+sabdfl> next?
17:15 <@popey> <mbt> QUESTION: [follow-up] Will the hardware dedicated to PPA be increased?  It took 8 hours to build a package that takes 6 minutes to build on my server.
17:15 <+sabdfl> mbt: yes, i think the servers are just full of Hardy package builds
17:15 <@popey> <slytherin> QUESTION: What is the future plan for PPAs? More architecture, RPM, support for other distros like debian unstable or fedora?
17:15 <@Hobbsee> mbt: i think that was due to some part of it breaking, and no one around to fix it.  that's not normal.
17:15 <@popey> (related)
17:16 <@Hobbsee> sabdfl: ppa, not production...
17:16 <+sabdfl> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds
17:16 <+sabdfl> yes, but they will soon be the same pool
17:16 <+sabdfl> we will bring on stream another set of PPA-dedicated builders
17:17 <+sabdfl> slytherin: not sure yet!
17:17 <+sabdfl> will depend on what people do with it
17:17 <+sabdfl> next?
17:17 <@popey> <thully> QUESTION: What are you doing to solve the "codec dilemma"?  Free formats are great in theory, but in practice everybody has iPods and a large collection of MP3/AAC files, and I don't see all of that disappearing in favor of Ogg overnight.
17:17 <+sabdfl> MP3 will solve itself when the patent expires
17:18 <+sabdfl> video is much trickier
17:18 <+sabdfl> Flash -> Gnash
17:18 < brobostigon> when does it expire??
17:18 <+sabdfl> next?
17:18 <@popey> <poelcat> QUESTION: How is the business model surrounding Ubuntu different than the original support model Red Hat had up until Red Hat 9 (after which Enterprise Linux and Fedora became separate)?
17:19 <+sabdfl> poelcat: it's similar, i think we have a wider range of services we offer at present
17:19 <+sabdfl> but circumstances are quite different, and i am confident we can make it work well
17:19 <+sabdfl> next?
17:19 <@popey> <nealmcb_> QUESTION: Getting involved in ubuntu usually involves signing up for and learning a complex, arcane set of overlapping collaboration technologies: irc, wiki, forums, mail lists, launchpad, and on the devel side: dput's odd ideas of how to do authentication and feedback, etc.  Experienced folks find them mostly second nature, but it turns off newcomers.  Where is the road out of this maze of twisty passages?
17:20 < nealmcb_> provisioning via launchpad?
17:20 <+sabdfl> nealmcb: there's also a lot of distro-specific processes and terminology
17:20 <@popey>  < nealmcb_> provisioning via launchpad?
17:20 <+sabdfl> freezes and milestones and gibbons
17:20 <+sabdfl> PPAs are a good start
17:20 <+sabdfl> because you can Just Get Started, and publish your work for friends / customers
17:20 <+sabdfl> and from there, we'll figure it out
17:21 <+sabdfl> if you have good suggestions, the right person to take them to is dholbach
17:21 <+sabdfl> jono would also love to hear about that, i think :-)
17:21 <+sabdfl> next?
17:21 <@popey> <Igorot> QUESTION: any plans of shipping pressed CDs for Xubuntu? I'm sure a few users would appreciate that, even if shipit offers only LTS Xubuntu releases
17:21 < jono> sabdfl: sure would :)
17:21 <+sabdfl> not at this stage, i'm afraid
17:21 <@popey>  < jono> sabdfl: sure would :)
17:21 <+sabdfl> we might be able to help get a good price if you want to place an order with the same supplier we use
17:21 <+sabdfl> next?
17:21 <@popey> <Solarion> QUESTION: any intent to collaborate with fedora on their linux hardware database and smolt?
17:22 <+sabdfl> Solarion: dup :-)
17:22 < Solarion> DUP
17:22 <@popey> oops
17:22 <+sabdfl> we have a hardware database too!
17:22 <+sabdfl> but i'm happy to collaborate in places where we both can contribute and benefit
17:22 <+sabdfl> i think some fedora folks are coming to UDS, which is cool
17:22 < Solarion> it's more than just a database, though, in the questions' defence.  There's software to auto-collect and poll the user on their hardware compatibility
17:22 <+sabdfl> next?
17:22 <@popey> <frank3434> QUESTION: Updating during a release consumes a lot of bandwidth and is probably impractical for people without high speed access. Is there any plan to have updates delivered ans binary diffs?
17:23 <+sabdfl> i tihnk release-to-release binary diffs would be HUGE
17:23 <+sabdfl> not sure what the saving would be
17:23 <+sabdfl> do you have figures that suggest feisty->gutsy is smaller as a binary delta?
17:23 < frank3434> I meant security updates and such
17:23 <@popey>  < frank3434> I meant security updates and such
17:23 <+sabdfl> that might be possible
17:23 <+sabdfl> come to UDS to discuss, present a paper!
17:23 <+sabdfl> next?
17:23 <@popey> <shaffox> QUESTION: Do you sometimes come accross stuff that doesn't work in ubuntu (eg wireless), and that you are frustrated?
17:24 <+sabdfl> yes, indeed
17:24 <+sabdfl> sound, often
17:24 < mbt> sabdfl: e.g., OOo had a package release that was just updating the splash screen, but the whole suite had to be redownloaded.  I think that was more along the lines of what was meant.
17:24 < Solarion> do you file the bugs yourself?  :)
17:24 <+sabdfl> i try to make sure the laptops we have in the company are from a diversity of brands
17:24 <+sabdfl> so folks file bugs :-)
17:24 <+sabdfl> next?
17:24 <@popey> <batelje> QUESTION : If ubuntu becomes very populair, will there be more ''sponsors" needed for the whole project , certainly for the shipping of cd's ?
17:25 <+sabdfl> possibly, and we'd certainly accept sponsorship!
17:25 <+sabdfl> as long as it doesn't involve paying for undisclosed patents :-)
17:25 <+sabdfl> next?
17:25 <@popey> <slytherin> QUESTION: VCD/DVD playing with totem-gstreamer is pain even with all the codecs and libdvdcss2 installed. Is there any plan for having some (sponsored) dedicated developer to solve these problems?
17:25 <+sabdfl> slytherin: not AFAIK
17:25 <+sabdfl> next?
17:26 <@popey> <profoX`> QUESTION: follow up on laptop usability: Suspend/resume does not work for many people with swsusp or uswsusp. I myself have very good experiences with a TuxOnIce patched kernel. Has it already been proposed to include that patch by default in Ubuntu, and if not, why not?
17:26 <+sabdfl> slytherin: i tihnk a commercial DVD player is still, alas, the best solution
17:26 <+sabdfl> profoX`: best person to speak with is mjg59 or benc
17:26 <+sabdfl> waaay outside my level of competence :-)
17:26 <+sabdfl> i know they care a lot about suspend/resume, but need folks to help debug and fix during the dev cycle
17:27 <+sabdfl> next?
17:27 <@popey> <thully> QUESTION: iPods are all over, yet Ubuntu's support for them is currently quite lacking (i.e. Rhythmbox has no sync/can't delete songs).  Is there any plans to improve this support?
17:27 <+sabdfl> thully: we're in the hands of upstream, there
17:27 <+sabdfl> next?
17:27 <@popey> <hendrixski> QUESTION: What does the victory over OOXML really mean for Linux?
17:27 <@popey> <hendrixski> QUESTION:  Do you see the ISO shooting down Microsofts second attempt at pushing through OOXML?
17:27 <+sabdfl> hmm... caution, it's not yet a victory
17:27 <+sabdfl> there is a ballot-resolution meeting in Jan
17:27 <+sabdfl> MSFT is trying to convince "no" voting countries to change to "yes"
17:28 <+sabdfl> it will be very tight
17:28 <+sabdfl> if they fail there, then i hope they will start to support ODF
17:28 <+sabdfl> OpenOffice deserves some competition ;-)
17:28 <+sabdfl> next?
17:28 <@popey> <Solarion> QUESTION: how do you think being a FOSS software house CEO differs from being a proprietary software house CEO?
17:29 <+sabdfl> it's much more interesting - because there are tons of smart people that DON'T work for you but you can still engage with them, debate and discuss, and collaborate
17:29 <+sabdfl> not many proprietary ceo's would have the benefit, or the challenges, of debian :-)
17:29 <+sabdfl> next?
17:29 <@popey> <hugolp> QUESTION: How would canonical value the additions of domotics (home automation) to Ubuntu? Id love Ubuntu to control my house. Would Canonical support an Ubuntu derivate distro with domotics in mind?
17:30 <+sabdfl> hugolp: get cracking in a PPA, i think that's a brilliant idea!
17:30 <+sabdfl> if it takes off, then we would help more
17:30 <+sabdfl> next?
17:30 <@popey> <edenbeast> QUESTION: how come both ubuntu and kubuntu sometimes seem to be focused on reinventing the wheel when it comes to similar purposes: e.g. aptitude for ubuntu and adept-manager for kubuntu, wouldn't it be better if there would be work done on 1 common back-end so the individual distro's work would be limited to front-end GUI creation. Could you see this happening in the future? 
17:30 <@popey> <edenbeast> Do you think this would contribute to lessening the perceived features-gap between the 2 distros as there seems to be now?
17:30 <+sabdfl> i *think* there are common backends for most of the similar capabilities
17:31 <+sabdfl> i know Riddell and co are not big NIH'ers
17:31 <@Hobbsee> the upgrader in adept is a copy of update-manager, written in qt
17:31 <@Hobbsee> afaik, anyway
17:31 <+sabdfl> the reason i think we still have both KDE and Gnome (and others) is that diversity breeds innovation
17:31 <+sabdfl> at the price of some duplication
17:31 <@Hobbsee> for most things, it's just a problem that no one ends up writing a qt front-end - but the gnome-types are getting better at making sure there are separate backends, to avoid code duplication
17:32 <+sabdfl> thanks Hobbsee
17:32 <+sabdfl> next?
17:32 <@popey> <awalton__> QUESTION: Do you think it would be worth our time to develop a distributed APT backend, like apt-torrent or the defunct deb-torrent? How much is software distribution costing the community in terms of bandwidth/dollar?
17:32 <@Hobbsee> sabdfl: you're welcome
17:32 <+sabdfl> awalton__: it's definitely a cool idea, though it has some rough challenges to overcome. at this stage, bandwidth isn't a big constraint IMO
17:32 <+sabdfl> next?
17:32 <@popey> <dinda> QUESTION: Ubuntu Live in Portland was awesome!  Are there plans in work for next year's conference?
17:33 <+sabdfl> dinda: indeed :-)
17:33 <+sabdfl> next?
17:33 <+sabdfl> (hi dinda)
17:33 <@popey> <wedderburn> QUESTION: with Ubuntu's icon set based on gnomes icon set which is based on the tango style and most major gnome apps(gimp, pidgin etc) adopting this same style is there any chance Ubuntu will do the same to tie in with the desktop apps and gnome?
17:33 <+sabdfl> hmm... keybuk is a good person to ask, as is kwii
17:33 <+sabdfl> i'm not a huge fan of tango, i'm afraid
17:33 <+sabdfl> next?
17:34 <@popey> <davmor2> QUESTION:  Is there any plan to partner gstreamer so some of the more common codecs could be bought legally from within ubuntu?
17:34 <@Hobbsee> s/kwii/kwwii/
17:34 <+sabdfl> not afaik, davmor2, but i am not entirely sure
17:34 <+sabdfl> we could run a poll to see if that would be popular
17:34 <@popey> (especially given some have left Fluendo now)
17:34 < Solarion> I'm pretty sure fluendo would love to partner.
17:34 <+sabdfl> right person to ask is randy.linnell@canonical.com
17:34 <+sabdfl> next?
17:35 <@popey> <Solarion> QUESTION: any plans to hold a conference for us poor schmoes stuck in the middle of the us, 4km from most popular spots?  :)
17:35 <@Hobbsee> i think that's called irc :)
17:35 <+sabdfl> we go where we can get a venue and a crowd...
17:35 <+sabdfl> but it really is worth the trip
17:35 <+sabdfl> looks like May 19-23 is next one after Boston
17:35 <+sabdfl> save the dates
17:36 <+sabdfl> though i don't know the venue yet
17:36 <+sabdfl> next?
17:36 <@popey> <Mean-Machine> QUESTION: what is the Ubuntu marketing strategy/plan for the near future?
17:36 <+sabdfl> i'm all typed out, so folks, 3 more questions
17:36 <+sabdfl> Mean-Machine: make it rock, build community, share the love!
17:36 <+sabdfl> we had fantastic coverage for Gutsy
17:36 <+sabdfl> really, really amazing
17:37 <+sabdfl> so i don't see any big changes to that plan
17:37 <+sabdfl> next?
17:37 <@popey> sabdfl: pick a number between 1 and 7
17:37 <@popey> (to make it fair)
17:37 <+sabdfl> 6
17:37 <+sabdfl> 2
17:37 <@popey> <pointwood> QUESTION: Are there any plans of a properly integrated alternative to Microsofts Remote Assistance feature? (basically: easy encrypted remote desktop)
17:37 <+sabdfl> 1
17:38 <+sabdfl> pointwood: that would make a GREAT spec for a UDS
17:38 <+sabdfl> seriously
17:38 <+sabdfl> all the components to do that are in place
17:38 <+sabdfl> so, start trying to champion that idea
17:38 <+sabdfl> try to get developers on your side
17:38 <+sabdfl> and it will happen
17:38 <+sabdfl> next?
17:38 <@popey> <urbanf> Question: What kind of tools do you recommend to use, for Ubuntu development? (Language; IDEs)
17:38 <+sabdfl> Python!
17:38 <@Hobbsee> nano!  ahem.
17:38 <+sabdfl> i'm not a big IDE fan, i use vim
17:39 < DaSkreech_> Whateverworks for you
17:39 <+sabdfl> eclipse is supposed to be great, if you haven't tried it
17:39 <+sabdfl> next?
17:39 <@popey> <Linuturk> QUESTION: Have you seen the work with Fluxbuntu? What are your opinions of the goal of the project, and anything other comments you might have on this derivative?
17:39 <+sabdfl> i haven't seen it in action, but perhaps someone will show it to me in Boston next week?
17:39 <+sabdfl> very much looking forward to seeing everyone again next week
17:39 <+sabdfl> new faces, and others will be missed
17:40 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-z] by popey
17:40 <+sabdfl> but i think it's going to rock
17:40 <+sabdfl> phew
17:40 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o PriceChild] by ChanServ
17:40 <@popey> thanks sabdfl 
17:40 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-m] by PriceChild
17:40 <+sabdfl> thanks very much popey, Hobbsee et al
17:40 < DaSkreech_> sabdfl rocks!!!
17:40 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o Hobbsee] by ChanServ
17:40 <+sabdfl> PriceChild too
17:40 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o PriceChild] by ChanServ
17:40 < DaSkreech_> Three cheers for hte ops!!!!
17:40 < Hobbsee> sabdfl: you're welcome
17:40 < PriceChild> Anytime :)
17:40 <+sabdfl> this was fun as always!
17:40 < DaSkreech_> Great session :)
17:40 <+sabdfl> thanks mdomsch for popping in too
17:40 < drhous1> thanks for your time sabdfl great session
17:40 < Rob125> sabdl, as in 'free beer whenever you're around.'
17:40 <+sabdfl> cheers all, enjoy the rest of the open week!

MeetingLogs/openweekgutsy/AskMark (last edited 2008-08-06 16:24:03 by localhost)