Kubuntu2

Ubuntu Open Week - Kubuntu - Richard Johnson - Thu, Oct 25, 2007

see also Tuesday session.

21:07 -!- ajmitch was kicked from #ubuntu-classroom by nixternal [[no trolling]]
21:07 <@nixternal> OK, now I can go :)
21:08  * nixternal wonders how long it will be until he notices
21:08 < marius> Hi Richard! :)
21:08 < Jucato> no the topic hasn't been set yet... still not your time :P
21:08 <@nixternal> howdy marius
21:08 < huwnet> @now
21:08 < ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 25 2007, 21:01:21 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 4 days
21:08 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o popey] by ChanServ
21:08 <@nixternal> cool, I am going to head to taco bell really quick then
21:08 -!- popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week info: Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Ubuntu classroom transcripts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts | Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat not here | Current Session: Kubuntu - Richard Johnson
21:08 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o popey] by popey
21:08 <@nixternal> thanks popey :)
21:09 <@nixternal> 16:01:05 [   ajmitch] nixternal: you're bad
21:09 <@nixternal> pwnd
21:09 < imbrandon> time for some KDE love!
21:09 <@nixternal> OK, so how many are we looking at this morning, afternoon, or evening for Kubuntu love?
21:09  * imbrandon raises palm
21:10 <@nixternal> I am going to do the patented, super high-technology imbrandon speed talk
21:10 < Jucato> early morning.. 5am... raising hand! :)
21:10 <@nixternal> that means, little talking, and more of a Q&A session...because who really wants to hear, or rather, see me copy and paste text causing you to fall asleep
21:10 <@nixternal> I SAID WHO IS HERE FOR THE KUBUNTU TALK!?!?!?!!?!
21:11 <@nixternal> don't make me do the Ballmer monkey dance
21:11  * mzungu here!
21:11 < stdin> ME!!!!!11
21:11 < Jucato> that would be fun :P
21:11 <@nixternal> DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!
21:11  * huwnet raises hand
21:11  * ubunturos raised his hand and shouts "ME"
21:11 <@nixternal> now we are talking
21:11  * nalioth hands nixternal a banana
21:11 < marius> Richard, can we ask question here? or in -chat ? :)
21:11  * nixternal kicks nalioth in the shin - no klines please
21:11 < mneptok>  /kicgk nixternal GIVE IT UP FOR MEEEEEEEEE!
21:11 <@nixternal> marius: I say we rock and roll right here...ask away whatever you want to know
21:12 < marius> good :D
21:12  * jpatrick raises his hand, but might not be around for long :(
21:12 < pwnguin> QUESTION: GNOME has a mobile edition, and qt is known for it's embedded toolkit. how's KDE fare on slower machines?
21:12 <@nixternal> I am lucky to have Jucato rocking it here as well...he knows more stuff than every God put together
21:12 < Jucato> O.o
21:12 < marius> well, first of all.. I LOVE KDE!, Second of all.... making Dolphin as the default file manager was not a good idea in my opinion. I know it's so popular, but it's not productive for me :) Now, every time when I install kubuntu, I have to sudo dpkg -P dolphin so I can use Konqueror. Can you do something about that in 8.04?
21:12 <@nixternal> pwnguin: whoa, you rockin' the good ones already!
21:12 < pwnguin> heh
21:12 <@nixternal> good question though
21:13 <@nixternal> I can honesty say I have played with KDE on a Zaurus, and it was whicked fast...seen Qt love on a Greenphone and it was hot, and lets not forget Slax, which is a KDE based super-fast, slim-lined KDE distro (Slackware based)
21:13 < marius> I have some great questions for you tonight :D
21:13 < luca> hi everyone :) myself, I got only one or two, but I fear they are big ;)
21:13 < pwnguin> imbrandon: i  hope you were listening ;)
21:14 < imbrandon> i was
21:14 <@nixternal> pwnguin: also, there have been footprint benchmarks between KDE, Gnome, Xfce, and Fluxbox I believe...the order from fastest/smallest overload was 1) Flux, 2) Xfce, 3) KDE, and 4) Gnome
21:14 < ubunturos> QUESTION: are there internal optimizations for KDE under Kubuntu?
21:15 <@nixternal> marius: as for Dolphin, you and I are together...well I won't say "not a good idea" really, because the nay sayers such as us, are way smaller than the crowd that loves it
21:15 < mzungu> QUESTION: i heard that main menu => System Settings is problematic, and should use kcontrol directly - is this true? and if so why?
21:15 < marius> heh
21:15  * Jucato +1 to nay sayers
21:15 < jjj543k3> I don't know what your definition of old equiptment is but i'm running on a 1300mhz 512 mb of ram laptop and kde is way faster than gnome or for that matter the original winxp i used to use but that is my opinion, ps what's going on on this channel?
21:15  * jpatrick too
21:15 <@nixternal> with Kubuntu, we give you flat out KDE, optimized no more than any other distro, but tweaked and made to look pretty just for you!
21:16 < imbrandon> questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat please, so that can be queued up
21:16 <@nixternal> mzungu: no that is not true...I haven't used KControl in a long time, and I was one of the first people to go "System what? no way, KCONTROL OWNS YOU"
21:16 <@nixternal> imbrandon: open session homey
21:16 < imbrandon> ok ...
21:16 < imbrandon> QUESTION : i want to hear about kde 4.0 hardy live cd, this will be in addition to the normal kde 3.5.x LTS release correct ? but not LTS support ? am i right ? same release date and built in the DC just the same ?
21:16 < marius> nixternal: How about some patches for Konqueror that allows us to close tabs with middle mouse click and to remove those very annoying "Access Keys" (in Akregator also)?
21:16 <@nixternal> shoot and fire, just go a little slow so my keyboard doesn't go up in flames
21:16 <@nixternal> KDE 4 will not be a Hardy Live CD
21:17 <@nixternal> KDE 4 will be a Gutsy Live CD!!!!!
21:17 <@nixternal> why? KDE 4 - end of December...end of December == barely half way through the Hardy cycle
21:18 <@nixternal> KDE 4 Live CD will definitely be when 4 is released, but my plans, and I believe our plans is to at least generate a Live CD, such as an RC release prior to final release
21:18 < pwnguin> kubuntu plans to release a 7.12?
21:18 < imbrandon> will Riddell be helping get this built in the DC and put on possibly ports.ubuntu.com or kubuntu.org for all arches ?
21:18 <@nixternal> marius: you can map that in the Konqueror settings
21:18 < Divilinux> hy all
21:18 <@nixternal> oh wait, no you can't
21:18 < jjj543k3> how do you set the konqueror user agent to something other than what is there? The options are all for ancient browsers like firefox 1.5, which is retarded, secondairly is there a way to completely remove the default user agent, I never ever want it to send the knoqueror user agent I want it to permanently send the latest version of firefox or for that matter ie7.
21:18 <@nixternal> marius: sorry...That would be a good idea...if you could, file a wishlist bug so we can look at it
21:19 < marius> great
21:19 < stdin> (slightly random) QUESTION: How would you describe the relationship Kubuntu has with upstream KDE?
21:19 <@nixternal> imbrandon: dunno...Gutsy and Hardy will have it, maybe Feisty if popcon is still showing a large use possibly
21:19 <@nixternal> stdin: freakin' amazing!
21:19 < Jucato> nixternal, marius: /me already has a patch for that first one
21:19 <@nixternal> I mean, they gave me SVN access, made me a Dot Editor, and trust my patches and documentation :)
21:20 < stdin> so the love flows both ways? ;)
21:20 <@nixternal> Jucato: get it in, talk to Riddell about that one...that is a great patch to have
21:20 <@nixternal> of course
21:20 < marius> Jucato: send it to Richard that :)
21:20  * Jucato tried to send it upstream first... too late though
21:20 < marius> I can patch those things myself, but would be great to have them default
21:20 <@nixternal> Also, KUbuntu is also trying to not just love upstream, but also left and right stream with other distributions...some we have worked closely with in the past are Mandriva and openSUSE to name a couple
21:20 < Divilinux> i have a question about Dolphin
21:21 <@nixternal> Divilinux: go for it!
21:21 < Divilinux> the possibility to handle more kio_slaves
21:21 <@nixternal> Divilinux: ++++1 :)
21:21 < Divilinux> or build simply kio_slave such in konqueror too
21:21 <@nixternal> Divilinux: I am sure those will be ironed out during Hardy
21:21 < Divilinux> of course i mean on kde four..
21:22 < Jucato> depends on which kio_slaves those are... for sure not the http* ones :)
21:22 <@nixternal> oh, you can guarantee all kio_slaves that do not lead to html will more than likely be easily incorporated
21:22 <@nixternal> Jucato: :)
21:22 < marius> nixternal: Here's a good one! Are you ready? :) Can you include the Domino KDE Style in Kubuntu? If not default (and trust me that at least 85% of the users will simply LOVE Kubuntu with Domino... it happened with Linux Mint 2.2 KDE, after my suggestion) at least as a package, and then users can select it. If you'll include some default themes for Domino. will also be nice, because the default style kinda sucks. The Milk style for Domino is
21:22 < marius> awesome!
21:22 < Divilinux> actually we need to port kio_sysinfo to dolphin
21:22 <@nixternal> ie. help:/, apt:/ <-unless we can get that bad boy TEXT
21:23 < Divilinux> so we don't know how to build this kio for dolphin
21:23 < Jucato> Divilinux: hm... that would involve Dolphin displaying HTML... I think that's a no no
21:23 <@nixternal> marius: I will add that to my "take a look at" list...can you provide me a link so I can see the licensing involved
21:23 < Divilinux> ok..thanks for answer..;)
21:23 < Jucato> nixternal, marius: jpatrick has worked on that already
21:23 < nosrednaekim> nixternal: whats going on in here this time? just chat?
21:23 <@nixternal> jeesh, he is back for less than a week and he is kicking arse
21:24 <@nixternal> nosrednaekim: OPEN FORUMS!
21:24 < Jucato> "Open Season on nixternal"
21:24 <@nixternal> why spew something written down, when we can shoot to our users straight from the heart!
21:24 < jpatrick> marius: kde-style-domino is in REVU
21:24 <@nixternal> also, I deleted my original talk because I was planning on this talk :)
21:25 <@nixternal> jpatrick: slow down, leave me some work this cycle! all I have right now is bitlbee complete :)
21:25 < jpatrick> mwuahahaha
21:26 < nosrednaekim> Hardy is "return of jpatrick"
21:26 < marius> nixternal: http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot153626rc8.png a screenshot of the Domino style tweaked by me
21:26 <@nixternal> oh, that's nice
21:26 < Jucato> QUESTION: Does Kubuntu have any definite long-term goals (aside from being the best KDE distro evar!)? or how about goals for Hardy?
21:26 <@nixternal> I think that is the first I have ever looked at it
21:27 < jpatrick> marius: send me a patch of that
21:27 < imbrandon> Jucato, msotly those are decided at UDS
21:27 <@nixternal> Hardy Goals -> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup
21:27  * ubunturos wonders, KDE to MAC interface?
21:27 < marius> yeah... I knew people will love Domino
21:27 <@nixternal> our long term goals are pretty much being the best distro, and of course being a rock solid KDE 4 distro
21:28 <@nixternal> so for Hardy, Kubuntu plans to play a little catch up with what Ubuntu has done the past cycle or 2
21:28 <@nixternal> Unfortunately we do have to play catchup, make everything a little less bug ridden, and a lot more stable for Hardy
21:28 < nosrednaekim> domino looks like KDE4
21:28 < imbrandon> ubunturos, we work on kde for darwin in #kde-dawin ( OS X )
21:28 <@nixternal> remember, Kubuntu has about 1/100th what Ubuntu has when it comes to development
21:29 < ubunturos> imbrandon: umm, there's a theme called baghira to do the same, your efforts (just curious)
21:29 < Jucato> nixternal: want me throw in the Q I threw at sabdfl? :)
21:29 <@nixternal> and I can say, I have come >.< that close to compiling KDE 4 on Windows (or Winblows cuz it annoys imbrandon) :)
21:29 <@nixternal> Jucato: shoot!
21:30 < marius> nixternal: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Domino+Kubuntu+package?content=52864
21:30 < Jucato> QUESTION: Other KDE distros are now gettng a lot better. And users have been comparing Ubuntu and Kubuntu features a lot. Do you expect Kubuntu to be able to stand up to that level of quality, and if not, are there plans to address that?
21:30 <@nixternal> Jucato: I would suggest that you ask sabdfl that question!!!!
21:30 <@nixternal> gahaha
21:30 < Jucato> <sabdfl> i think Riddell is the best person to answer that!
21:30 < Jucato> bwahahah!!
21:30 <@nixternal> I had to do it
21:30 < Divilinux> QUESTION: how about great kbluetooth?..re-writing is pretty good..but there's some problems..
21:30 < Jucato> youreally came prepared :D
21:30 < imbrandon> ubunturos, no i mean actualy compiling kde4 on OSX
21:30 <@nixternal> all KDE distros are blowing up...SUSE is kicking arse, taking names, and making strides
21:30 < ubunturos> imbrandon: ah, ok. My bad
21:31 <@nixternal> as many of your know, PCLOS has become the #1 distro on Distro(we don't cheat much)Watch
21:31 < marius> Jucato: check your e-mail
21:31 <@nixternal> and it is a KDE distro
21:31 <@nixternal> been a while since that has happened
21:31  * Jucato checks
21:31 < nosrednaekim> Kubuntu is on #6 in the past week BTW ;)
21:31 <@nixternal> Kubuntu will strive to get better, but we will keep our software freedom philosophy going, unlike PCLinuxOS
21:31 < jpatrick> Jucato: err, he meant me
21:31 < ubunturos> nixternal: but LF reports more than 30% usage of *buntu :)
21:31 < Jucato> fine
21:31 <@nixternal> Jucato: in order for Kubuntu to continue and stand up, we will definitely need more help
21:32 < Jucato> yay help!
21:32 < marius> what's REVU ?
21:32 < jpatrick> I am voluteering to mentor anyone who wants to work on KDE packages
21:32 <@nixternal> Divilinux: I am sure that will be done right for Hardy...we have been working hand-in-hand with upstream with bluetooth stuff
21:32 < imbrandon> jpatrick, me also , anyone intrested see me or jpatrick in #kubuntu-devel
21:33 < marius> nixternal: if you put Domino in Kubuntu, i'll make you a statue :D
21:33 <@nixternal> imbrandon, jpatrick, don't forget about me! :)
21:33 <@nixternal> wow!
21:33 < marius> :))
21:33 < Divilinux> nixternal: i've always loved it, but recently i can browse file by konqui..and not with framework
21:33 <@nixternal> wait, jpatrick already did, I will go ahead and upload it before him though, I could always use a statue :)
21:34 < marius> nixternal: if you want my Milk patch for Domnio I'll send it to you by e-mail :)
21:34 < marius> lol
21:34 <@nixternal> I am old sKool KDE...Plastik only here :)
21:34 < jpatrick> marius: already in package
21:34  * jpatrick is that fast
21:34 < Jucato> plastik ftw!! (but I like Domino)
21:35 <@nixternal> I do too Jucato...that does look like KDE 4
21:35 < Jucato> or OS X.. depends on who you ask.. :P
21:35 < marius> nixternal: A patch or fix for the GTK-QT Style will also be nice, because the scrollbar in Firefox and GIMP (other apps too) is very ugly. I know it's a button to fix the scrollbar for Firefox, but it doesn't work with Domino. Can this be fixed in 8.04? :)
21:35 < nosrednaekim> depends on how you configure it...
21:35 < marius> jpatrick: nice to hear that :)
21:35  * Jucato thinks about other questions...
21:35 <@nixternal> marius: I installed gtk-qt-engine and made it all purty
21:36 < vocx> jpatrick, imbrandon are you willing to mentor the noobs that post in the Programming Forum? Some of them have been programming for years even if they are just in High School and are experts is Visual Basic. And they do not know what else to do with their haxor skillz.
21:36 <@nixternal> I had that same problem and it affected my Qt Jambi bindings for Eclipse, and Eclipse and Qt of all people told me how to fix it, and it fixed firefox as well
21:36 < imbrandon> vocx, sure, you mean the ubuntu programing forums ?
21:36 < jpatrick> vocx: VB? :|
21:37 < ubunturos> nixternal: QUESTIONS: any plans to include few development tools on future Kubuntu versions?
21:37 < jpatrick> what they need is a course in C++ :)
21:37 < nosrednaekim> or python...
21:37 <@nixternal> vocx: if they can do VB, they can do c#, can pick up Python, and eventually learn c++, so of course we could mentor them as well...Only thing I would stress though is patience since we are a small, but amazing crew
21:37 < ubunturos> and on Qt :)
21:37 < imbrandon> fwiw gambas can compile MOST vb 6 apps and it uses QT
21:37 < nosrednaekim> ubunturos: like which tools?
21:37 < ubunturos> nosrednaekim: IDEs or compilers etc?
21:37 <@nixternal> ubunturos: more than likely not due to disc size, but I will not say never to that one
21:37 < imbrandon> nixternal, jpatrick, vocx, fwiw gambas can compile MOST vb 6 apps and it uses QT
21:38 < ubunturos> nixternal: ah
21:38 < jpatrick> "I think we're the best" -- Riddell
21:38 <@nixternal> WE ARE THE BEST -- nixternal
21:38 <@nixternal> :)
21:38 < nosrednaekim> don't matter what you THINK...
21:38 < ubunturos> nixternal: how does knoppix get it?
21:38 < stdin> ubunturos: probably because they don't have oo.o :p
21:38 < marius> nixternal: but I have gtk-qt-engine and all the GTK apps have the scrollbar ugly :(
21:38 <@nixternal> I have no clue..I haven't looked at Knoppix in a few years
21:39 < ubunturos> stdin: they do have OO
21:39 <@nixternal> marius: in system settings, check out the GTK stuff, I think I installed the clearlooks engine
21:39 < nosrednaekim> yeah... is there any plan to enable gtk-qt theming by defualt?
21:39 < stdin> ubunturos: really? I haven't used it in years and they didn't then
21:39 < marius> nixternal: I have QT setup for my GTK apps
21:39 <@nixternal> OH, Knoppix doesn't have all of the kernel modules, so that could be a little bit as well
21:40 <@nixternal> marius: when this is over, I will let you know what my setup is so you can check it out
21:40 < ubunturos> stdin: they do have it now
21:40 < vocx> imbrandon, nixternal jpatrick you should recruit people in Programming Talk in ubuntuforums.org then. And I hope you have a lot of patience. Also what is the best IDE??? They need IDES, otherwise they skillz diminish.
21:40 < marius> nixternal: thanks :)
21:40 < jpatrick> vocx: please point the hopefuls to #kubuntu-devel and we'll get them sorted..
21:40 <@nixternal> vocx: lol
21:40 < jpatrick> Kate FTW
21:40 < ubunturos> nixternal: umm. I guess, it isn't some special compression algorithm that knoppix might be using
21:40 <@nixternal> actually, vocx you have a good idea, I think we should be head hunting in there
21:40 <@nixternal> I doubt it, because if they were, we would as well :) and so would every other distro
21:41 <@nixternal> marius: "Use another style:" I have Clearlooks
21:41 < ubunturos> vocx: understand what's under the hood and then switch to the IDE ;)
21:41 < mzungu> what about those of us who learned programming from Charles Babbage ;)
21:41 <@nixternal> hahahahaha
21:41 < giftnudel_> Me as a gnome user will tell you that your plan to world domination by recruting will never work
21:42 < Jucato> Me as a kde user will tell you that gnome's plan to stop our plan to world domination recruiting will never work :)
21:42 <@nixternal> woohah
21:42 < imbrandon> ok no DE wars
21:42 < marius> nixternal: I understand.... but I want QT to emulate the GTK apps
21:42 <@nixternal> if you don't have anything positive, then please go elsewhere, thanks
21:43 <@nixternal> ahh...then ya marius there will have to be some serious hacking, on Qt's side
21:43 < giftnudel_> that wasn't meant to be insulting or start a flame war :)
21:43 < marius> nixternal: and if I put QT... then all my GTK apps (Firefox, GIMP, Synaptic) are emulated with Domino.....only the scrollbar is ugly at corners
21:43 < nosrednaekim> do these people that we are head hunting use kubuntu or ubuntu?
21:43 < marius> nixternal: oki doki then :)
21:43 <@nixternal> nosrednaekim: we want to get the ones who are interested no doubt
21:44 < vocx> ubunturos, "what's the closest thing to MSVC++ in Windows.... Kate? what's that? I want a click-and-compile-button"
21:44 <@nixternal> vocx: Eclipse
21:44 < marius> The KDE desktop refresh sucks? Can this be fixed somehow? I mean, and I bet I am not the only one here with this problem, when I download stuff directly on my desktop (images and archives especially) sometimes they appear, someday they don't, or they have incomplete names.....and I know that the files are there because I can look at the desktop folder from Konqueror.
21:44 < giftnudel_> I personally think that it's difficult to get people to work on your project long time
21:45 < giftnudel_> but those that stay will surely be good :)
21:45 <@nixternal> can't say that I have experienced that marius since I don't like anything on my desktop..I will have to check it out though and see if there is something we can do about it
21:45 < ubunturos> vocx: there's something called as Gambas similar to VB - and Qt toolkit for similar
21:45 <@nixternal> giftnudel_: that is true
21:45 <@nixternal> in all cases at that
21:45 <@nixternal> being a free software developer takes a lot of patience, the ability and the want to learn, and good burn-out prevention as well
21:45 < ubunturos> vocx: though, you configure kate to compile on clicks or shortcuts
21:46 < vocx> ubunturos, I know. But try explaining that to them.
21:46 < giftnudel_> nixternal: I lack the last :)
21:46 <@nixternal> you and I both
21:46 < marius> nixternal: it's not from Kubuntu.... don't get me wrong... It's from KDE.. and it's an old bug :( I use the desktop 10 hours per day in my work...
21:46 <@nixternal> giftnudel_: beer doesn't work anymore :)
21:46 < ubunturos> vocx: get those who are *really* interested. :)
21:46 < marius> nixternal: and another 4 @ home :D
21:47 <@nixternal> ubunturos and vocx: your conversation shows the lack for documentation always, and documentation is always a great way for new people to get their feet wet...that is how I started in 1994 by submitting docs to the Linux doc Project
21:47 <@nixternal> and with Kubuntu as well
21:48 < ubunturos> nixternal: I fail to understand - how?
21:48 <@nixternal> Documentation can actually provide you the feeling that you are developing something, especially as a new/young developer...and it is quite trivial to learn
21:48  * ubunturos had quite a few submissions to documentation for KDE, which failed for unknown reasons :(
21:48 <@nixternal> ubunturos: if you document, that means you have to learn the application you are documenting, or in this case, the distro, and Linux, and the applications...so you tend to go behind the scenes and learn the little things that make development tick
21:49 < ubunturos> nixternal: true.
21:49 < Jucato> ubunturos: it would be great if you tried to find out why they failed :)
21:49 <@nixternal> after a while it is easy for you to start packaging, then creating small patches, and before you know it, you are a full fledged developer making millions!
21:49 <@nixternal> well, the millions might be out of the ballpark, but you get the idea :)
21:49 < stdin> everyone can do me a HUGE favour, trawl wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com and add Kubuntu instructions to Gnome-centric pages, so I don't have to do it *every* time
21:49 < ubunturos> Jucato: I couldn't - even after attempting to contact the developers
21:49 < marius> nixternal: KGet, KCalc, KNemo, Konq-Kim, KFTPGrabber, KRename, Superkaramba can be installed by default in future versions? Some are very important (Kget for example)! Knemo provides those little internet monitors in the sys tray like Ubuntu desktop has:)
21:49 < ubunturos> nixternal: right
21:50 <@nixternal> imbrandon: do you know how to work with Gambas well? I see a tutorial or something coming on that could possibly attract those types of developers
21:50  * Jucato votes for kget by default
21:50 < nosrednaekim> yes... +1 for kget
21:50 < marius> hehe
21:50 < Jucato> marius: SpeedCrunch is there (for KCalc)
21:50 < imbrandon> nixternal, sure, i can write one up for tomarrow
21:50 < marius> Jucato: i HATE it
21:50 < marius> :)
21:51 < stdin> someone, anyone, help me out on the wiki pages. all you need is a launchpad account
21:51 < marius> Jucato: Kcalc is more simple and productive!
21:51 <@nixternal> KGet +1, KCalc really don't care as I use Katapult for my calc, Konq-Kim when it decides to work (we need to fix that), KFTPGrabber isn't necessary with the ftp kio (that is what the core-devs will tell ya), KRename (check who the maintainer of that package is in Debian and Ubuntu...yup, you got it, me :) so I am all for it)
21:51 < nosrednaekim> I see alot of Dev requests on the kubuntu-devel mailing list
21:51 <@nixternal> SuperKaramba I think should be in by default as well
21:51 < nosrednaekim> no....
21:51 < marius> yey!
21:51 < nosrednaekim> -1 for superkramba
21:51 <@nixternal> don't say Conky
21:52 <@nixternal> LiquidWeather is the greatest widget/app ever!
21:52  * Jucato -1 SK, given the slight instability... unless we find very stable themes
21:52 <@nixternal> :)
21:52 < vocx> I want to tell you that the single reason I did not install Kubuntu 6.06 in the first place was because the Live CD messed up the screen resolution and fonts, so it was impossible to install. Maybe it can still be fixed... I've been lazy.
21:52 < nosrednaekim> I propose..... NOTHIN!
21:52 <@nixternal> it works great for me
21:52 <@nixternal> !works for me
21:52 < ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should. Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability.
21:52 < marius> nixternal: I ONLY use Liquid Weather
21:52 <@nixternal> hehe
21:53 <@nixternal> marius: if SuperKaramba doesn't get in, the least I could do is at least document it as an option and of course show it off..which just gave me a new idea
21:53 < marius> nixternal: cool :)
21:53 <@nixternal> vocx: Kubuntu 7.10 is the first distro to ever work from teh LiveCD with my 21" wide screen (no-name brand piece of junk)
21:53 < Jucato> always show it off, and recommend high quality, stable, non-resource intesive themes
21:54 < marius> nixternal: why do you say konq-kim doesn't work? I use it all day long...never had problems with it
21:54 < nosrednaekim> !worksforme
21:54 < ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
21:54 <@nixternal> I will have to look at it...I had a lot of problems with it in the past...there was a specific feature that I can't remember right now that I could never get to work
21:54 < marius> ohh...ok
21:55 <@nixternal> imbrandon: groovy on the gambas stuff...didn't see ya up there, caught you in my irssi highlight winder
21:55 < vocx> nixternal, about you commenting about documentation and then becoming a full developer, there was a nice thread in the forums about a programmer's job, essentially summarizing it to: "programmers aren't support guys and they shouldn't be working on documentation. How do you become a paid programmer in Free Software."
21:55 < ubunturos> QUESTION: Is it usually best to submit docs (how-tos) to the K app developer or Kubuntu Developer ?
21:55 <@nixternal> vocx: you show me a programmer who works for a living and doesn't document, and I will show you the worst application in the world for its users
21:56 <@nixternal> they wouldn't teach docsys for a reason now would they :)
21:56 <@nixternal> err
21:56 <@nixternal> doxygen
21:56 < marius> nixternal: K Menu Gnome (http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/K+Menu+Gnome+(Debian+Package)?content=31031) is very useful application when you install Kubuntu over Ubuntu (like I do) as it makes a separate menu for all the GNOME apps and cleans and rearange all the item in KMenu... do you think it can be installed by default in future versions of Kubuntu?
21:57 < ubunturos> marius: +1 for the question
21:57 < marius> hehe
21:57 < nosrednaekim> +1 for that!
21:57 < marius> :D
21:57 <@nixternal> vocx: in free software, it is your love, your passion, that wants you to create the greatest application ever..and besides bugs, the other important thing is the documentation...you wouldn't expect another person to be able to understand your code and what you want right?
21:57 <@nixternal> marius: something we can definitely look at...but remember, if we add anything new by default, that means we have to remove something
21:58 <@nixternal> and I am all for removing OO.o and replacing it with KOffice anyways :)
21:58 < ubunturos> ah, KOffice
21:58 < marius> nixternal: but all these are little apps that does a LOT of "healing" for Kubuntu :D
21:58 < Jucato> ubunturos: regarding your doc question, you can approach nixternal later in #kubuntu-devel to help you, since he's doing doc work for both KDE and Kubuntu
21:58 <@nixternal> is that packaged at all for Ubuntu? that would stink if it wasn't
21:58 < ubunturos> Jucato: right. ok
21:58 < marius> +1 for Kword
21:58 < vocx> nixternal, oh... and he also said that in his opinion, "a lot of linux applications were badly designed" so he basically wanted to develop applications, sell them to Canonical and move on.  I'll get you the thread, it's a nice discussion.
21:58 <@nixternal> did I miss a doc question?
21:59 < ubunturos> nixternal: not a problem, please continue
21:59 <@nixternal> vocx: ya, I would like to read, and definitely not comment..I have worked in Microsoft shops before, and a majority couldn't dev a good HID or UI to save their lives
22:00 < marius> nixternal: it is, even for amd64... i use the Kubuntu 64-bit version ;)
22:00 <@nixternal> as do i
22:00 < nosrednaekim> -1 for kword
22:00 <@nixternal> what else is weighing on people's minds?
22:00 <@nixternal> Emacs then! :)
22:01  * nosrednaekim likes vim and kate
22:01 < marius> nixternal: here's the package for K Menu Gnome (all architectures) http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/K+Menu+Gnome+(Debian+Package)?content=31031
22:01 <@nixternal> who uses a wordprocessor anyways? profesional writing is done with LaTeX :)
22:01 < marius> lol
22:01 < marius> I use KWord
22:01  * ubunturos loves Kate
22:02  * nosrednaekim finds its Doc support less than adequate
22:02 < marius> nixternal: last question....Why there's no entry for KMail in Kmenu? :)
22:02 <@nixternal> here is something I want to know, besides marius who has overloaded us with a ton of ideas, well marius too, what would you like to see in the future for KUbuntu? how can we make you love us long time :)
22:02 < mzungu> Just a thought - for all those who don't know which packages to install from the 20,000 + universe, should there be a kubuntu recommended list of additional packages to 'round out' the install
22:02 < Jucato> marius: we prefer to have it in Kontact :)
22:02 < ubunturos> marius: isn't that integerated with Kontact
22:02 <@nixternal> omg, I just did that "Full Metal Jacket" style
22:02 < marius> but marius hates Kontact :(
22:02 < marius> :))
22:03 <@nixternal> mzungu: good idea!!!! excellent idea actually...if you want, start up a wiki page or something with that, and I will see about putting it into the Kubuntu docs
22:03  * ubunturos likes the integration of Kmail, Akregator in it :)
22:03 < marius> Everyone... hand up for Domino Milk in Kubuntu 8.04!
22:03 <@nixternal> I used Pine and Mutt for years, last year I switched to Kontact, needed another K in my arsenal, and I haven't looked back...for you IMAP users, check out Mailody, simply amazing
22:03  * nosrednaekim wants ANYTHING new
22:04 < mzungu> ok - i'll see what i can do
22:04 < Jucato> nixternal: if sorting already works on Adept Manager, the packages with the Kubuntu icons are from main/restricted.. . usually those are the recommended stuff right?
22:04 <@nixternal> are they recommended, or do they just have the K/Qt deps?
22:04 < nosrednaekim> thats still like 2000 packages..
22:04 <@nixternal> that I don't know...I use apt-get for everything
22:04 < nosrednaekim> and some are GNOME
22:05 < nosrednaekim> (I think)
22:05 < marius> nixternal: some nice mouse themes installed by default? (I use ComixIcons packages)
22:05 < Jucato> we could most probably make up a list
22:05  * nosrednaekim the traitor uses synaptic
22:05 < marius> :)
22:05 <@nixternal> I think having a few pages in our docs that explains all of great possibilities would be great, and I want to work on that, and would even mentor someone looking to help document
22:05 < nosrednaekim> marius: so many ideas! :)
22:05 <@nixternal> hehe
22:05 <@nixternal> who uses a mouse?
22:05 < marius> lol
22:05 <@nixternal> Microsoft users!
22:05 <@nixternal> haha
22:05 < Jucato> nixternal: <AmyRose_p2> Sysinfo for 'amy-pentiumtwo': Linux 2.6.22-14-generic running KDE 3.5.8, CPU: PentiumII(Klamath) at 332 MHz (665 bogomips), , RAM: 150/154MB, 102 proc's, 2.30h up
22:06 < marius> :D
22:06 < mzungu> ahh - adept! last used in dapper, so thought to give it a try in gutsy - but what a resource hog! and a memory leak somewhere - so back to aptitude in konsole ;)
22:06 < Jucato> nixternal: for the doubters!
22:06 <@nixternal> holy smokes
22:06 < marius> -1 for Adept
22:06 <@nixternal> Amy has me beat big time
22:06 < Jucato> nixternal: I asked AmyRose to sort of document his/her user experience
22:06 < marius> I've read the whole session from Tuesday
22:06 <@nixternal> Celeron 500 overclocked to 800MHz running KDE (Slackware) on another box
22:06 <@nixternal> PackageKit? :)
22:06  * nixternal ducks
22:07 < marius> I think the best idea is for someone to make a QT version of Synaptic
22:07 < Jucato> nixternal: hide from mhb!!!
22:07 < Jucato> marius: there was... but it died
22:07 <@nixternal> exactly why I ducked
22:07 < marius> or Packagekit.....
22:07  * nosrednaekim ducks from mhb
22:07 < marius> :)
22:07 <@nixternal> We definitely need to do something, because it seems that Adept isn't loved by many people
22:07 < Jucato> marius: I personally would prefer something that won't look like a copy of something else though :)
22:07 < nosrednaekim> kynaptic sucked
22:07 < Jucato> nixternal: s/seems/is evident/
22:08 < marius> heh
22:08 <@nixternal> Jucato: you got it :)
22:08 < ubunturos> sudo apt-get instead ;)
22:08 <@nixternal> booyah
22:08 < luca> nixternal: when adept will be as flexible and powerful as synaptic, thing'll get better :)
22:08 < Jucato> of course, a new package manager isn't an easy business, and won't exactly be perfect the first time it's out...
22:08 <@nixternal> ubunturos: but new users are scared of the command line, at least that is what all of the FUD slingers say
22:08 < luca> (and apt-get rocks :D )
22:08 <@nixternal> we could be like another distro and create Python front ends for every command line utility there is :)
22:09 < ubunturos> umm
22:09 < Jucato> nixternal: yeah.. riiiight :)
22:09 < nosrednaekim> ok...one of biggest problems with kubuntu is artwork...who here is an artist?
22:09  * Jucato ducks
22:09  * nixternal ducks
22:09 < marius> lol
22:09 < luca> uhm by the way...sorry to interrupt...about apt-get...sudo apt-get build-dep amarok --> was not possible to satisfy dependencies ?_?
22:09 <@nixternal> oh wait, Ken isn't in here
22:09 < mzungu> there is a huge debate on apt-get vs aptitude - which aptitude seems to win with better depenency handling
22:09 < Jucato> nosrednaekim: our beloved mhb is drawing up a spec to build a Kubuntu artist community
22:09 < marius> i'm....NOT :)
22:10 < nosrednaekim> Jucato: ah.... our beloved minion
22:10 <@nixternal> mhb is superdev! nobody works harder than he does...
22:10 < Jucato> no one except nixternal and Riddell
22:10 <@nixternal> imagine if we had about 10 of him
22:10 < Jucato> gremlins-style? O.o
22:10  * Jucato fetches a bucket of water....
22:11 <@nixternal> heh
22:11 <@nixternal> OK, I am going to start finishing up here, but I would be more than welcome to carry the conversations on later...
22:11 <@nixternal> one thing I want to say though
22:12 <@nixternal> Kubuntu is lacking in active developers and we try to draw them in. Our number 1 goal however isn't the developer, but the user, and making that user as happy as possible
22:12 < marius> Richard, it was a pleasure to talk to you.. have a great night and I hope some of my ideas will become reality!
22:12 < luca> bye and thanks :)
22:12 < Jucato> ubunturos: remember to poke nixternal later and see whatever happened to your doc submissions to KDE
22:12 < marius> Good night everyone!
22:12 < Jucato> good morning!!!
22:12 < mzungu> many thanks nixternal
22:12 <@nixternal> 99.9% of the Kubuntu developers are not paid, actually only 1 is...but we have a very tight-knit community that is easy to join in with, and you will meet some of the greatest people and developers in the world
22:12 < Jucato> nixternal: can I go back to sleep now? :/
22:13 < marius> It's just 1 AM here :)
22:13 <@nixternal> it is a total joy working wth the Kubuntu people, and if it wasn't for that, I am sure I would be back with Debian, or lost and confused with some RPM distro :)
22:13 < stdin> Jucato: no, you have to look after #kubuntu now
22:13  * stdin runs away
22:13 < mzungu> 1am here too!
22:13  * Jucato lassos stdin
22:13 < marius> We love you too Richard! :D
22:13 < Jucato> nixternal: the chameleon!!! :)
22:13 <@nixternal> I want to thank you all for the awesome questions, and if you want to ensure I remember your ideas and what not, fire an email to me at nixternal@kubuntu.org or even fire some ideas to kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
22:14 < Jucato> hah finally he uses the @kubuntu.org :P
22:14 < stdin> where's picachu when you need an electric attack...
22:14 <@nixternal> we can always use developers, we can so use non-developers as well
22:14 <@nixternal> so if you know someone who is looking to get into free software, or Ubuntu/Kubuntu, let them know it is easy, there are jobs for everyone
22:14 < luca> nixternal: I just hope that by Hardy, no one will ever say anymore that Ubuntu is the LESSER sister of Gnome Ubuntu :)
22:14 < Jucato> and for those people who like to help out Kubuntu in every way possible, we do invite you to lend a helping hand in #kubuntu :)
22:15 <@nixternal> with that said, thanks again everyone, and I hope you all keep in contact because you have brilliant ideas and wonderful personalities
22:15 < luca> sadly tops I can do is beta-testing :( and #kubuntu , a bit
22:15 <@nixternal> stuff that makes Kubuntu the greatest!
22:15 < Jucato> luca: every little bit helps :)
22:15 < stdin> and the wiki, please someone help me with the wiki
22:15 < Jucato> no one touch the wiki!!!
22:15  * stdin begs
22:15 < Jucato> :P
22:15 < luca> oh by the way
22:15 <@nixternal> luca: that isn't "sadly" at all, that is great! no matter how you help, you matter believe it or not..and with the Kubuntu community still being quite small, you don't get lost easily
22:15 < Jucato> stdin: let's see what we can do next week btw... if you have a list, it would be easier
22:16 < luca> nixternal: good then :) but I won't update to Hardy 'till february/march, I am done with unstable systems for a while :P
22:16 <@nixternal> haha
22:16 < stdin> Jucato: the way I find them is usually, "<stdin> person: go look at this wiki page...."   "<person> stdin: where is System > "Administration"? "
22:17 <@nixternal> I am probably going to dist-upgrade this week to Hardy
22:17 < luca> good luck :)
22:17 <@nixternal> I am opposite, I can't stand stability..there is no challenge with stability :)
22:17 <@nixternal> you learn more when you are fixing stuff :)
22:17 < luca> well...I guess I will have my share of fun with kde4 :P
22:17 <@nixternal> I am talking to you from KDE 4 as we speak
22:18  * stdin just finished compiling kde4 again
22:18 < Jucato> :)
22:18 <@nixternal> hehe
22:18 <@nixternal> compiling KDE can be done in my sleep now
22:18 <@nixternal> literally, because kdelibs takes forever!
22:18 < stdin> I have a script :p
22:18 < luca> me too, but failed multiple times
22:18 < luca> I have done many build-dep now...crossing my fingers...
22:18 < stdin> it "svn up"'s then goes to ../build and makes them
22:18 <@nixternal> I have to watch each of my builds..I did use a script that would >> to a file if there were deprecated tags
22:19 <@nixternal> who had a problem with amarok build-dep?
22:19 < luca> me
22:19 < luca> and konversation too
22:19 < stdin> luca I think
22:19 <@nixternal> what package was it failing on?
22:20 <@nixternal> I have to say, Amarok 2 is simply gorgeous!
22:20 < luca> amarok* and konversation so far
22:20 < luca> the error is a simple "it was not possible to satisfy building dependencies"
22:20 <@nixternal> hrmm
22:20 < nosrednaekim> apt-get builddep?
22:20 <@nixternal> I will have to check and see all the deps missing
22:20 < stdin> is that the whole output?
22:20 < luca> which is odd as I did multiple build-deps on the kde4 packages w/o problems
22:21 < luca> yeah it is :(
22:21  * Jucato didn't know nixternal's session was 2 hours....
22:21 < Jucato> :P
22:21 < stdin> it was longer on tue
22:22 < Jucato> too bad I wasn't there... I should have been
22:22  * Jucato headdesks
22:22 < luca> nixternal can you issue those commands w/ good results?
22:23 <@nixternal> E: Build-dependencies for amarok could not be satisfied.
22:23 <@nixternal> nope
22:23 <@nixternal> hrmm
22:23 <@nixternal> looking into it now
22:23 < stdin> on gutsy?
22:23 < luca> yeah
22:23 < stdin> works here
22:23 < luca> it seems to affect konversation too
22:23 < luca> stdin: good, now we just have to remote compare three boxes :P
22:23 < Jucato> yay.. anyway... good night!
22:24 < luca> night
22:24 < stdin> dpkg -l|wc -l
22:24 < stdin> 2268
22:24 < stdin> or not...
22:24 < luca> same error for konqueror O_o
22:24 <@nixternal> and it is funny, because apt-get check isn't returning anything for me
22:25 < luca> same here
22:25  * nosrednaekim is waiting for the Developer preview
22:25 < vocx> For developers read http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=544957&highlight=sell+software+business+support
22:25 <@nixternal> nosrednaekim: check it out from trunk/extragear/multimedia
22:26 < nosrednaekim> nixternal: dial-up.... i'm not checking ANYTHING out.
22:26 <@nixternal> lol
22:26 <@nixternal> I forgot
22:26 < nosrednaekim> maybe when I go down to the library or something
22:26 <@nixternal> nosrednaekim: there is an amarok2 package in the repos
22:26 < nosrednaekim> oh rly?
22:26 <@nixternal> ya, don't know how old it is though
22:27 < nosrednaekim> eh.... whats it called? i
22:27 < nosrednaekim> m
22:27 < nosrednaekim> not seeing it
22:27 < luca> by the way, as I am here....I have to file a bug report for wpa, nm-applet and knetworkmanager...a hidden wpa...odd thing is that I can connect with knetworkmanager, but it does forget the settings at every reboot :(
22:27 < luca> nixternal: never seen it!
22:28 <@nixternal> luca: there could already be a bug report for that...I filed one a while back about that stuff
22:29 <@nixternal> alrighty all, I am off for a bit...need to hunt down some food..thanks again

MeetingLogs/openweekgutsy/Kubuntu2 (last edited 2008-08-06 17:01:32 by localhost)