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Ubuntu Open Week - Launchpad Q&A - Kiko - Thu, Oct 25, 2007

see also Tuesday session.

18:57 -!- popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week info: Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Ubuntu classroom transcripts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts | Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat not here | Current Session: Launchpad Q&A - Kiko
18:57 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+v kiko] by popey
18:57 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-v mwhudson] by popey
18:59 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o popey] by popey
19:00 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o Daviey] by ChanServ
19:10 <+kiko> good afternoon
19:10 <+kiko> and welcome to Launchpad Q&A!
19:10 <+kiko> this is my second session this week. it's raining for the first time in weeks and my hands are a bit cold, so my typing may not be up to par, but that may mean I get to think more about my answers.
19:11 <+kiko> the protocol is as follows
19:11 <+kiko> you ask a question on #ubuntu-classroot-chat
19:11 <+kiko> I'll paste it in here
19:11 <+kiko> and provide a reply. I get extra points if it's a good reply. if it's a bad reply I don't get to do UOW next time around!
19:12 <+kiko> (some people seem less than entertained by that)
19:12 <+kiko> so we'll need some questions in order for me to answer
19:13  * kiko fishes for questions
19:14 <+kiko> hard fishing
19:15 <+kiko> <Daviey> [QUESTION] Is there much chance of LP becoming opensource soon.  There are some (basic) features I would love to add, but are not really importiant enough for a LP dev to work on?  Thanks
19:15 <+kiko> good question.
19:15 <+kiko> and how soon is soon?
19:16 <+kiko> I can say it's not going to happen in the next six months. there is a lot of code to sort out and there are canonical-related bits that need porting
19:16 <@Daviey> porting out or in?
19:16 <+kiko> porting out, and to other systems.
19:16 <@Daviey> Thanks
19:17 <+kiko> there's a matter of licensing: we would like to release as a completely free license, but some people are concerned that others would just fork launchpad and the value to users would be diminished
19:17 <+kiko> nobody has found a good answer or justification to that problem, so we're still discussing
19:17 <@Daviey> Is this discussion open?
19:17 <+kiko> if you have a smart idea to help there, please talk to me!
19:18 <+kiko> it's only happened in person-to-person emails, but we're all willing to discuss it
19:18 <@Daviey> I consider my question well answered.. Thats 10 points :)
19:18 <+kiko> it's not a taboo subject. just one that is hard!
19:18 <+kiko> thanks for asking it.
19:19 <+kiko> edenbeast> on bug tracking if one project is selected but no project name is filled in could you make it so that it then considers it as 'all projects' :P
19:19 <+kiko> that was a suggestion, but.. hard fishing, and it's an interesting one.
19:19 <+kiko> if I understand it right.
19:19 <+kiko> edenbeast, where do you mean "if one project is selected"?
19:19 <+kiko> <giftnudel> QUESTION: Is there an easy way to search for old bug reports by age, even if there is the janitor now?
19:20 <+kiko> excellent question.
19:20 <+kiko> giftnudel, yes. select "Oldest first" as the order when searching for bugs.
19:20 < giftnudel> ah ok, I didn't know that existed, thanks
19:21 <+kiko> giftnudel, for instance: ...
19:21 <+kiko> http://tinyurl.com/26vv4v
19:21 <+kiko> there you go.
19:21 <+kiko> the other sorting options for bug listings are fun, try them out.
19:21 <+kiko> there's "recently changed" too
19:22 <+kiko> giftnudel, (under the covers it just sorts by ID ASC <wink>)
19:22 <+kiko> <edenbeast> QUESTION: "some people are concerned that others would just fork launchpad and the value to users would be diminished" isn't forking the value of open source in a sense? One size doesn't fit all? How do you see this as a problem?
19:22 <+kiko> that's a great question too.
19:22 <+kiko> here's my opinion.
19:23 <+kiko> forking is a great value of open source, but it's of /most/ value when it's software that /you/ will run
19:23 <+kiko> it's less value if you could fork, say, google's search code.
19:23 <+kiko> if you are not going to set up the solid infrastructure, then it's not so useful to be able to fork the code
19:24 <+kiko> now in launchpad, there is an additional, greater concern
19:24 <+kiko> which is that launchpad benefits users the most because of network effects
19:24 <+kiko> having projects together sharing information: bugs, translations, questions, code
19:24 <+kiko> if you fork launchpad and run myownlaunchpad.net
19:24 <+kiko> then that benefit is gone
19:25 <+kiko> some have argued that a federated system would be better
19:25 <+kiko> but I don't think that is actually a certainty
19:25 <+kiko> and it is definitely not what launchpad is today
19:25 <+kiko> making launchpad federated is a much larger proposal, and the engineering work to do that is significant
19:26 <+kiko> to fork launchpad without there being the ability to federate would be less useful to end-users
19:26 <+kiko> and that's what I care the most about
19:26 <+kiko> <Daviey> [QUESTION] Do you happen to know how many registered users LP has? Thanks
19:26 <+kiko> great question. I do, and you do too (I think)
19:26  * kiko runs for a url
19:26 <+kiko> -> https://edge.launchpad.net/people
19:27 <+kiko> expand the Statistics portlet
19:27 <+kiko> There are currently 1373464 people and 1484 teams registered in Launchpad.
19:27 <+kiko> that's a lot of people
19:27 <+kiko> one observation: people requesting shipit CDs also register in launchpad
19:27 <@Daviey> Thanks! didn't know about /people
19:27 <+kiko> so a lot of that volume comes from there.
19:27 <+kiko> yeah, /people is a closely guarded secret
19:27 <+kiko> hmmm
19:28 <+kiko> no, in fact, that's a bug. :)
19:28 <+kiko> <giftnudel> QUESTION: Is there a an easy way to find all the tags when trying to categorize a bug, like a drop down list? Or do I need to know them by heart (or read them before)?
19:28 <+kiko> there is an easy way. but I'll let you in on a secret. it's horrible. :)
19:28 <+kiko> giftnudel, just visit the project's bugs home page -- bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu -- and expand the Tags portlet
19:29 < giftnudel> Please, think of the children!
19:29 < giftnudel> ok, so not easier than that :)
19:29 <+kiko> not easier than that /yet/
19:29 <+kiko> so one thing that I've been trying to convince BjornT to do
19:29 <+kiko> is to implement something called "official bug tags"
19:29 <+kiko> official bug tags would be tags blessed by project owners
19:30 <+kiko> they would be available as a list in bug +edit pages
19:30 <+kiko> and they would be listed preferentially in that tags portlet
19:30 <+kiko> that would make tags much more useful IMO
19:30 < giftnudel> that would be wonderful
19:30 <+kiko> but he is still ignoring me. :)
19:30 < giftnudel> now you have a supporter
19:31 <@Daviey> +1
19:31 <+kiko> BjornT, I have an army now ^^
19:33 <+kiko> I need to fish for more questions
19:33 <+kiko> <edenbeast> QUESTION: would adding a 'tagcloud' system to launchpad bug tracker make sense, so that you could check out other bugs related to a certain subject e.g. kubuntu-7.10 or x-server?
19:33 <+kiko> hmmm.
19:34 <+kiko> so I'm unsure if you mean a global tagcloud, or if you're thinking of one inside a certain project, say, Ubuntu.
19:34 <+kiko> if it's a global tagcloud, I'm not sure that would be that useful
19:34 <+kiko> because tags are kind of specific to the project they are in (even though the bug is shared)
19:34 <+kiko> if it's an Ubuntu tagcloud
19:34 <+kiko> well
19:34 <+kiko> that's giftnudel's question above
19:35 <+kiko> though right now the rendering is scary :)
19:35 <+kiko> <giftnudel> QUESTION: Is there or will there be a personal homepage that has links to all active projects, so I don't have keep my bookmarks in my browser? Like a activity page or so, that I can customize to have the important projects, bugs, answers in one place. Not splattered around in different subscribed places.
19:36 <+kiko> well, I have launchpad.net/~kiko
19:36 <+kiko> that is more or less a homepage, and an activity page
19:37 <+kiko> that can move in that direction -- definitely. but file bugs for things that are missing that would make sense there without cluttering.
19:38 < giftnudel> The thing is there is a lot of my ideas in /~user, but normally, what I'm interested in is always hidden in 2 to 3 links, which takes a while to get through
19:39 <+kiko> giftnudel, what things are those?
19:40 < giftnudel> The bug I subscribed three bugs before, and that kind (it always moves out of focus just when I need it, I think,- but that might be murphy)
19:41 <+kiko> if there are bugs that we can concretely fix to improve the page (without making it into an encyclopedia of everything giftnudel) then we can and will do it
19:41 < giftnudel> ok, I need to think about that than
19:41 < giftnudel> *then
19:42 < gord> question: are there any plans to add rss support to launchpad (especially the answer tracker), its easier than forwarding *every* question/answer to your mailbox...
19:42 <+kiko> gord, yes, that's a task of the Feeds project!
19:43 <+kiko> it's one of the big things for early 2008
19:43 <+kiko> RSS feeds of bugs and answers.
19:43 < gord> phew, i mentioned it to mark aages ago but my mailbox is starting to have heart attacks from it ;)
19:43 <+kiko> we're doing it
19:44 <+kiko> stay tuned. talk to statik or flacoste about it when you can!
19:44 <+kiko> <edenbeast> QUESTION: as soon as you're in a bug/project (e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/blubuntu/) you must go to Home and then to Bugs to go back to the search without going back in the browser, could you add another part of the breadcrumb above? (e.g. home>Bugs>blubuntu)
19:45 <+kiko> hmmmm
19:45 <+kiko> what sort of search are you doing edenbeast?
19:45 <+kiko> across different projects?
19:46 <+kiko> <Daviey> [Question] Where can i find support on PPA issues?
19:47 <+kiko> on #launchpad, and on the launchpad-users mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/admin/launchpad-users
19:47 <+kiko> ask me! I'll help out.
19:47 <@Daviey> sounds good - i'll grab you tommorow.. thanks
19:47 <+kiko> edenbeast, wow. very few people actually search across all projects; that's an interesting use case we haven't thought of much
19:48 <+kiko> <pwnguin> QUESTION: i missed the first bit of this session, so apologies if its already been addressed -- How is Ubuntu faring in terms of bugs reported, bugs fixed etc?
19:48 <+kiko> great question
19:48 <+kiko> so I keep graphs of bugs filed across time
19:48 <+kiko> I'll disclose one to you. hang on.
19:49 <+kiko> async.com.br/~kiko/bugs.png
19:49 <+kiko> and another one on bug tags
19:49 <+kiko> async.com.br/~kiko/bugtags.png
19:49 < pwnguin> sounds like a LP feature request in the making ;)
19:49 <+kiko> the bugtags graph makes it easy to see where the release was
19:49 <+kiko> note however that the number of open bugs didn't jump so much
19:50 <+kiko> the answer there is that we did /amazingly/ well this cycle
19:50 <+kiko> normally there is a big ramp-up of bugs for a release
19:52 < pwnguin> is that reported bugs or bugs open?
19:55 <+kiko> bugs in total
19:55 <+kiko> bugs open follows that more or less
19:55 <+kiko> <giftnudel> QUESTION: How can I merge identities? There used to be a "this is me" button, where has it gone?
19:55 <+kiko> well
19:55 <+kiko> it's still here, but it only appears when the account isn't activated
19:55 <+kiko> if both accounts are activated
19:55 <+kiko> then:
19:55 <+kiko> http://launchpad.net/people
19:55 <+kiko> (again)
19:55 <+kiko> and Merge accounts!
19:56 < giftnudel> ah, thanks
19:56 <+kiko> <Daviey> [Question] Care to share how you made the graph?  So we can use it for other projects we 'own'?
19:57 <+kiko> Daviey, I could tell you but..
19:57 <+kiko> we have a scary hacked-up cricket instance
19:57 <+kiko> that runs queries and graphs them
19:57 <+kiko> it is really not a pretty sight
19:57 <+kiko> we need better querying but so far have been unable to prioritize this work
19:57 <+kiko> it would be very cool to have a +graphs page
19:59 <@Daviey> thanks
20:01 <+kiko> <pwnguin> QUESTION: any eta on linking bugs to savannah?
20:02 <+kiko> yes.
20:02 <+kiko> this should be handled in the next 2 months
20:02 <+kiko> it's been a lot of work to get watches fixed up until now
20:02 <+kiko> but we're in good shape a
20:02 <+kiko> nd more improvements are now easier.
20:02 <+kiko> <imbrandon> QUESTION: Did PPA package removal get pushed back from going into edge or am i missing something on the new UI
20:03 <+kiko> well
20:03 <+kiko> we rolled out today, so edge has been resynced
20:03 <+kiko> howeve
20:03 <+kiko> r
20:03 <+kiko> package removals are only available through admin requests right now
20:03 <+kiko> we will have UI for them later this cycle, on edge.
20:03 < imbrandon> ahh ok thanks , great , i've been looking forward to it
20:03 <+kiko> yep
20:04 <+kiko> me too! it has eaten up three nights of mine reviewing the code
20:04 < imbrandon> heh
20:05 <+kiko> <imbrandon> QUESTION: followup, will the package removal be remove source and all resulting binarys or can we cherry pick ?
20:05 <+kiko> quick answer: source and all resulting binaries
20:06 <+kiko> <Daviey> [Question] Just a general interest question - How many hosts is LP?  Including webserving and database?
20:06 <+kiko> hmmm. let me count.
20:06 <+kiko> I think it's 14
20:06 <+kiko> let me confirm...
20:07 < nithinkumary2k> [question] can I upgrade to 7.10 if iam running on 6.10
20:07 <@Daviey> nithinkumary2k: Can you keep questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat.  Thanks
20:07 <+kiko> 12 only apparently.
20:07 <+kiko> so there you go :-)
20:08 <+kiko> there are a few machines that are support services: carbon, asuka, mawson
20:08 <@Daviey> kiko: If you happen to know, how many of those are webserving and how many DB?
20:09 <+kiko> only one is DB, really
20:09 <+kiko> 4 app servers
20:09 <@Daviey> Thanks
20:09 <+kiko> and a front-end load-balancer
20:09 <+kiko> there are quite a few dedicated boxes for certain services
20:09 <+kiko> thanks to everyone that asked questions
20:09 <+kiko> I might be invited again!
20:09  * kiko waves
20:09  * popey waves
20:09 < giftnudel> *me waves back
20:09 <@Daviey> No.. Thank you for answering them!
20:10 <@Daviey> 3 Cheers for kiko. Hip Hip
20:10 < popey> Moo!
20:10 <+kiko> moo?
20:10 < popey> Moo
20:10 < harkonen> apt-get moo
20:10 <+kiko> moo then.
20:10  * kiko waves