Artwork

Ubuntu Open Week - Ubuntu Artwork - Ken Wimer - Wed, Apr 20, 2008

=== jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Current Session: "Ubuntu Artwork" - Ken Wimer

[20:00] <jcastro> kwwii: you're up!

[20:00] <kwwii> ok, here we go :-)

[20:01] <jcastro> Next up is Ubuntu Artwork with Ken Wimer!

[20:01] <kwwii> Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to be here

[20:01] <kwwii> My name is Kenneth Wimer. I work on art and design on the Ubuntu artwork team

[20:01] <kwwii> I thought I would start off by explaining a bit about the art team and what we do

[20:01] <kwwii> and then we can answer any questions that come up

[20:02] <kwwii> The Ubuntu artwork team are the people behind planning and creating artwork for community based 
themes, the default ubuntu theme, and packaging said artwork.

[20:02] <kwwii> We communicate through the wiki, mailing list and irc channel.

[20:02] <kwwii> For many people, at first they think all we do is draw pretty pictures but there is a lot more to it 
when you get down to creating an entire theme.

[20:03] <kwwii> just a small list:

[20:03] <kwwii> installer, usplash, login manager, and the various desktop pieces like wallpaper, screensaver, 
splash-screens, icons, window decorations, widget styles, etc.

[20:03] <kwwii> For many people, at first they think all we do is draw pretty pictures but there is a lot more to it 
when you get down to creating an entire theme.

[20:03] <kwwii> erm

[20:03] <kwwii> There has been a lot of interest recently in getting theme teams together to create community based 
themes with original artwork.

[20:04] <kwwii> This is a great way to show off what we have to offer - I am looking forward to seeing what everyone 
can come up with.

[20:04] <kwwii> Now that Hardy is out the door things have been heating up again for Intrepid.

[20:05] <kwwii> We have been doing quite a bit of planning for future releases and with Intrepid I think that we'll 
see more change than we have in the past couple of releases.

[20:06] <kwwii> I would like to be able to take a few bold steps towards defining an appealing and unique interface.

[20:06] <kwwii> Maybe at this point I should say that brown is here to stay :-) Brown identifies us, it sets us apart 
and if done correctly can be very compelling and interesting.

[20:06] <ompaul> <rubicon_> QUESTION: are you planning to create one (or more) unified theme(s) for the intrepid? 
usplash, gdm, GTK, Qt, everything?

[20:07] <kwwii> we will have one theme for intrepid but theming between qt and gtk is quite different

[20:08] <kwwii> I do not that we will see one theme for everything anytime soon

[20:09] <kwwii> On a non-artsy side, packaging the pieces is a lot of work, in and of itself, not to mention trying to 
actually change something more than a pic here and there.

[20:09] <kwwii> Also, there are always technical issues coming up with art bugs.

[20:09] <kwwii> Quite often a bug is subscribed to the art team because of some visual error which is not actually a 
problem with the artwork.

[20:11] <ompaul> <PartyPaladin> QUESTION: I'm a photographer.  Is there anything I could do to contribute, and if so 
what sort of photos are useful?

[20:11] <kwwii> photographers can be a great help

[20:12] <kwwii> for instance, we use cropped pictures or textures from pictures in splash screens, wallpapers and more

[20:12] <kwwii> so, with a healthy dose of Gimp magic anything is possible

[20:13] <kwwii> maybe I should add here that if anyone is interested in joining the team, they should check out the 
wiki page

[20:13] <kwwii> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork

[20:13] <kwwii> there are instructions on how to join

[20:14] <kwwii> one last thing on photography...it is important that the artist use a CC or other open source license 
so that we can include it in the distribution

[20:14] <ompaul> more than just CC it needs to allow commercial redistribution or else it can't be put in distros

[20:15] <ompaul> <J-_> Question: Will Intrepid have any significant UI changes? I suppose that's moreso a GNOME 
question.

[20:15] <kwwii> Ubuntu Intrepid will hopefully have lots of UI changes if you ask me

[20:16] <kwwii> I would like to see us work on renewing the style and window decorations as well as use 2D icons in 
the panel, not to mention simply refreshing the human icon set

[20:16] <kwwii> naturally, that goes along with the usplash, gdm and wallpaper

[20:16] <kwwii> some of the ideas which we will first show in Intrepid will only come to fruition in later releases 
though

[20:17] <kwwii> so we might start testing more radical ideas soon only to pull some closer to release, working on them 
further in later releases

[20:17] <ompaul> <Alsvartr> QUESTION: does free software have all the functions you need in your work? Do you use 
non-free or proprietary software?

[20:19] <kwwii> I used to use Adobe products quite a bit. I still have a mac with osx on it and every now I do still 
use an app or two

[20:19] <kwwii> in the meantime inkscape and krita are just about all I need

[20:19] <kwwii> inkscape is the main tool, I can do pretty much anything with it :-)

[20:20] <kwwii> scribus is very popular with people doing layouts but I don't do that much

[20:20] <kwwii> I have also played with pencil for sketching with my tablet

[20:21] <ompaul> <PartyPaladin> QUESTION: Are there any resources you would recommend for a beginner that's interested 
in learning how to make Gnome themes?

[20:22] <kwwii> a whole Gnome theme is a pretty complicated issue as it contains a metacity theme, an icon theme, a 
style and probably a wallpaper

[20:22] <kwwii> I would say that the best thing to do is think of one thing you want to change and look into that

[20:22] <kwwii> we have a list of information sources on the wiki

[20:23] <kwwii> and asking in irc is also a quick way if someone is around

[20:23] <kwwii> the most basic thing is to learn to do artwork (with inkscape prefereably)

[20:23] <kwwii> and learn how to figure out small technical issues or know who else to ask

[20:24] <ompaul> <bersace> QUESTION: kwwii : do you plan following the same concept, just evolving it, during the next 
two years in order to produce a very polished theme for next LTS ?

[20:25] <kwwii> yes, we began to plan for the next several releases during Hardy. We hope to create a new look and 
style which evolves over the course of this LTS cycle

[20:25] <kwwii> this is why we have a chance to play around more in Intrepid than we could in Hardy

[20:25] <kwwii> again, it will still be brown though :-)

[20:26] <ompaul> bersace> QUESTION: Do you intend follow Tango guideline in Human Theme (at least solve usability and 
consistency ?)

[20:27] <kwwii> as Gnome uses icons which follow the Tango guidelines I think that we have to pay attention to them to 
some extent

[20:27] <kwwii> but I would not say that we are bound by the Tango guidelines

[20:28] <kwwii> so we will use them as a basis but change things as we see fit

[20:28] <ompaul> <_kavOOr_> QUESTION : why was the desktop loading splash screen removed gutsy onwards ?

[20:29] <kwwii> afaik, it turned out that it took longer to load the splash screen and icons and do the animation than 
it did to start the desktop in most cases

[20:30] <jcastro> yes that was a GNOME upstream change

[20:30] <kwwii> the splash screen was really only there to hide the fact that it took so long to load the desktop :-)

[20:30] <ompaul> <thorwil> QUESTION: how will the metacity/compiz split be dealt with in future?

[20:32] <kwwii> although that is more of a technical question it directly effects what we can do on the desktop in the 
future so the best I can say is that whatever works best usually gets picked by the devs in charge

[20:32] <kwwii> my guess is that compiz is around for a while

[20:32] <jcastro> < lukeen> QUESTION: Can you please support Cimi with his Murrine engine and especially the rgba 
transparency thing? I think he  still needs a configurator, a simple version of a configurator could be included in 
the appeareance dialog so people can  not only choose the color, but also how compact and glassy a theme should be.

[20:33] <kwwii> actually, I would very much like to support him but I already have one child at home :p

[20:33] <kwwii> I think his work rocks

[20:33] <kwwii> and I really think that some version of murrine is the way to move forward

[20:33] <kwwii> everyone loves to configure things

[20:34] <jcastro> < Leviath> QUESTION: Does the art-team somehow contribute to the linux-community outside of ubuntu?

[20:34] <kwwii> we just included human themes with the GUI configurable colors

[20:34] <kwwii> people like being able to choose on some things

[20:35] <kwwii> until now very little of what the art team has done has gone upstream other than bug fixes

[20:35] <kwwii> one thing that we are working on is improving the OOo icons

[20:36] <kwwii> and sending, where appropriate, our icons upstream to tango

[20:36] <kwwii> in the end, the ubuntu default theme is not very usefull for upstream so much of what we do is, by 
definition, not upstream-able

[20:37] <kwwii> but our theme teams could be working on themes which make it upstream in gnome

[20:37] <jcastro> QUESTION: Will there be anymore further development in bringing themes from other sources to the 
desktop? By that I mean, a  program to browse themes on selected websites from a program within Ubuntu. I've seen a 
program in Feisty that does  something similar, but it seemed to not really have options on where to browse, and 
seemed very buggy.

[20:37] <kwwii> so that is an area we need to work on, but the basis is there

[20:38] <kwwii> while there are sites with themes available there is, to be quite honest, a lot of hacky themes out 
there and they often depend on engines which might or might not work

[20:39] <kwwii> so while I don't see such an app happening without someone explicitly trying to do it right I do think 
that you will see more installable thems in universe in the future

[20:39] <kwwii> so add/remove programs will offer people the same functionality

[20:39] <jcastro> This next one I know you will love.

[20:39] <jcastro>  RzR> QUESTION: how can we make better integration of some applications when using dark themes ?

[20:39] <kwwii> hehe, the slate theme

[20:40] <kwwii> to be honest, I think that a lot of apps are not coded properly

[20:40] <kwwii> so I think that one needs to include a dark theme as soon as possible and start reporting bugs

[20:40] <kwwii> if not enough of those bugs are fixed or they are too critical we will have to revert until such time 
as those bugts are fixed

[20:41] <kwwii> I think that you will see more and more people using a dark theme in the future

[20:41] <kwwii> it is one more way for us to set ourselves apart

[20:41] <kwwii> and on smaller devices it just looks niftier

[20:41] <kwwii> jcastro: next

[20:42] <jcastro> < bersace> QUESTION: is there some plan on making Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu and Ubuntu artworks 
consistent ?

[20:43] <_MMA_> I'd also add that many dark themes don't work because of incorrect usage of GTK. Hard-coding color 
values and such. Best to report those issues upstream.

[20:43] <kwwii> that is one way that we can work with upstream :-)

[20:43] <kwwii> bersace: no, until now there are no such plans

[20:43] <kwwii> bersace: I think that the amount of work would be overwhelming

[20:44] <kwwii> and I am not sure if all the communities would want that as well

[20:45] <kwwii> although for ubuntu itself to do such would be interesting if we had the manpower

[20:45] <kwwii> jcastro: next

[20:46] <jcastro> < artir> QUESTION: the new human icon theme will be a evolution of the previous one or a radically 
new  style?

[20:47] <kwwii> as an icon theme takes a very long time to create it will be done in phases

[20:47] <kwwii> so it will not be radically different but yet totally different in the end :-)

[20:48] <kwwii> any theme which lasts longer than a year begins to evolve

[20:48] <kwwii> right now the human icon theme is only a few icons anyway

[20:48] <kwwii> with the 2D panel icons idea we start to look at icon themes in a new way

[20:49] <_MMA_> QUESTION: lukeen: will there be more themes, icons and especially wallpapers (well in GNOME, KDE has 
enough i think) preinstalled in future releases?

[20:49] <kwwii> that is one thing that I definitely want to do in Intrepid

[20:50] <kwwii> the currently available themes are simply outdated

[20:50] <kwwii> I think that we could do much better

[20:50] <kwwii> people love to click through themes and there are so many already available I see no reason why we 
should not present the best what is out there

[20:51] <ompaul> <james_w> QUESTION: related to lukeen's. Some people really really like the default wallpaper of a 
specific release, but when they upgrade this is taken away. Is there any plan to ship old versions so they can at 
least switch back? Is this a CD space issue?

[20:52] <kwwii> while I understand that people might get upset when the pic they like goes away it really has to 
happen or you wouldn't know if you updated or not :-)

[20:53] <kwwii> I guess the best answer to that would be to create a theme package with previous versions

[20:53] <kwwii> so that people could install whichever they like

[20:54] <kwwii> I think that once you set your wallpaper to something different than the default it keeps it after an 
update so this should only happen once then

[20:54] <_MMA_> QUESTION: Azag: In gnome-look (and similars) there are a loot of themes that are trying to copy to Mac 
Leopard or Winbug Vista, what do you think, it is a obsession of the GNU/Linux users to imitate other SO?

[20:54] <kwwii> I think the people like to have the shiniest new thing

[20:54] <kwwii> so when nice looking themes come out they want to have them on linux

[20:55] <kwwii> thinking "see, I can show that linux is just as good as X"

[20:55] <kwwii> personall, I think it is a waste of time

[20:55] <kwwii> personally, that is

[20:56] <kwwii> I think that we can push some new ideas through which nobody else has shown before

[20:56] <kwwii> so there is no need to copy something that is already old

[20:56] <kwwii> more than anything else, we need a strong community to realize something so bold

[20:56] <kwwii> there is a lot of work to do :-)

[20:57] <kwwii> anyone who wants to check us out, come by #ubuntu-artwork on freenode

[20:57] <kwwii> or our wiki on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork

[20:57] <kwwii> and don't forget the mailing list http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art

[20:58] <kwwii> I guess that wraps things up for me, thanks for joining :-)

[20:58] <ompaul> \o/ thanks kwwii \o/

[20:58] <nixternal> smashing job kwwii!!

MeetingLogs/openweekhardy/Artwork (last edited 2008-08-06 16:40:50 by localhost)