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Ubuntu Open Week - Running a Packaging Jam - Rick Harding - Fri, May 2, 2008

[20:02] <rick_h_> am I green for go?

=== ompaul changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: for #ubuntu-classroom is: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise |  Running A Packaging Jam Richard Harding

[20:02] <ompaul> yes

[20:02] <rick_h_> cool

[20:02] <rick_h_>  I'm Rick Harding, a member of the Michigan Loco. You can get a hold of me 
for any questions or whatnot at rharding@mitechie.com (blog on same site)

[20:03] <rick_h_> I wanted to go over running of Packaging Jams

[20:03] <rick_h_> So first thing, how many of you guys have made a package?

[20:03] <rick_h_> active crown this afternoon

[20:03] <rick_h_> crowd

[20:04] <rick_h_> ok, well the point is that if you've gone through it, you know there's a 
ton of docs

[20:04] <ompaul> <Syntux> I did for the purpose of learning

[20:04] <ompaul> <BonesolTeraDyne> I have, though only for personal use

[20:04] <rick_h_> and it can be a bit overwhelming at first

[20:04] <rick_h_> I mean, I use Ubuntu and .deb packages because I didn't want to deal with 
all that compiling, make file, fun and joy.

[20:04] <rick_h_> So Greg (our loco fearless leader) and I were talking one night about how 
to make this easier and we thought “wouldn't it be cool if we could get an Ubuntu MOTU to 
teach us?”

[20:05] <rick_h_> Now unfortunately you can't mail order a MOTU.

[20:05] <rick_h_> We tried, but the store was fresh out

[20:05] <rick_h_> We did find a former MOTU (Aaron Lake) to sit down with us and walk us 
through the start of learning to create .deb packages.

[20:05] <rick_h_> So there's your first requirement, someone that can package, even a little.

[20:05] <rick_h_> Now this is probably the most difficult to accomplish, but the better your 
mentor the more everyone will get out of the packaging jam.

[20:06] <rick_h_> Places to look for a mentor are local user groups, an Ubuntu LoCo, and 
maybe even the #ubuntu-motu channel.

[20:06] <rick_h_> side note, I've kind of got this all prepped so if I go to fast let me know

[20:06] <rick_h_> If you can't find someone, you can try to hold it just with the docs. 
They've gotten much better and the hands on docs 
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn) are pretty easy to get through.

[20:06] <rick_h_> Once you have someone to show the way, it's time to find the venue.

[20:07] <rick_h_> Good things to look for are plenty of table space for everyone, power, 
network connectivity, and plenty of beverages.

[20:07] <rick_h_> I'd suggest saving the good ones for a least half way through the jam :)

[20:07] <rick_h_> A great alternative would be if you could get a computer lab with a bunch 
of live cds. One person in our jam connected remotely to my file server running vmware.

[20:07] <rick_h_> oh yes, snacks as well

[20:07] <rick_h_> pizza delivery works great for that

[20:08] <rick_h_> In our case we had some 8 people at my house. Everyone used my home network 
and downloaded packages over my cable modem. Most of the packages you need are small and 
wasn't much of a strain on the cable line.

[20:08] <rick_h_> If bandwidth is an issue, try to provide a debmirror on the local network. 
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Debmirror

[20:08] <rick_h_> The mirror will provide the packages to everyone without requiring an 
internet connection.

[20:08] <rick_h_> Make sure to plan of some people not being up to date. How many of you all 
run something other than hardy currently?

[20:09] <rick_h_> ok, guess we're all up to date, nice

[20:09] <rick_h_> So we've got our mentor, our network and location, next up we need to do 
some pre-planning. This should be done with the mentor.

[20:09] <rick_h_> You want to plan out the course of action. Go through the docs and figure 
out what you want to cover in the time you have.

[20:10] <rick_h_> Just a heads up, whatever time you have, plan on doubling it. I originally 
planned for a 4 hour session.

[20:10] <rick_h_> After backtracking to get everyone a GPG key, uploading them to LP, signing 
each other's keys, and getting through things...we had run into 8 hours long.

[20:10] <rick_h_> We didn't cover everything I had wanted to, but in the end we covered a lot 
of ground.

[20:10] <rick_h_> So for the docs, there are a lot out there and dholbach has done some great 
stuff in cleaning them up.

[20:11] <rick_h_> If you have lots of time, start out with the 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PackagingOverview and move on to the 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn and then go through the 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic

[20:11] <rick_h_> If you're short of time, you should be able to get through the first two 
docs in a couple of hours.

[20:11] <rick_h_> Go through the docs with your mentor and plan out what you want to cover, 
and if you can, write out the guide with copy/paste commands.

[20:12] <rick_h_> this makes life much easier for everyone to follow and avoids tracing down 
typos for hours

[20:12] <rick_h_> people can then copy/paste the guide and take it home with them

[20:12] <rick_h_> You can see how I did this for my Penguicon talk by using the HandsOn as a 
sample. http://wiki.avwsystems.com//doku.php/linux/packaging/penguicon_2008

[20:13] <rick_h_> At the talk, I hosted it on a wiki on my laptop and had everyone in the 
room connect to it. This way we can all walk through step by step together.

[20:13] <rick_h_> Our first packaging jam we used gobby over the network. This worked well, 
but gobby has a few lacking features that make life difficult.

[20:14] <rick_h_> _stink_: yea, I prefer the wiki format

[20:14] <rick_h_> people can still edit the page, or create new pages

[20:14] <rick_h_> but you avoid the gobby issues

[20:14] <rick_h_> like

[20:14] <rick_h_> 1) Copying and pasting is dangerous as people tend to paste over content.

[20:14] <rick_h_> 2) Gobby doesn't have undo...so see

[20:14] <rick_h_> so see 1)

[20:14] <rick_h_> 3) everyone has to install it while running a local wiki just means 
everyone points their web browser at my IP.

[20:15] <rick_h_> and everyone has a browser so you're golden off the bat

[20:15] <rick_h_> does that make sense _stink_ ?

[20:15] <rick_h_> It's best if you can test out the commands ahead of time to watch for 
packages that need to be installed, config options changed, and potential issues.

[20:15] <ompaul> <_stink_> rick_h_: QUESTION: First off, thanks for hosting that Pack. Jam. I 
had a great time. We used gobby to share notes, with mixed results. Do you have 
recommendations for sharing shell commands/links/GPG key IDs/etc.?

[20:16] <rick_h_> ok, so see above for that one, wiki ftw! and of course dokuwiki is the best

[20:16] <rick_h_> Once this is done, it's really just a matter of going through the material 
together. Make sure everyone is up to date at all times and if there are any questions that 
can't be answered, write them down and follow up.

[20:17] <rick_h_> If you have network access try to get some help in #ubuntu-motu. The more 
you can get done together, the better the jam will be getting everyone started

[20:17] <rick_h_> So this leads us to what should people expect to get out of a Packaging 
Jam.

[20:17] <rick_h_> First, they should realize they're not alone.

[20:18] <rick_h_> My packaging talk at penguicon was packed. So many people want to learn 
packaging, but it's a bit intimidating.

[20:18] <rick_h_> I mean there are a ton of rules, docs, new commands, everything must be 
exactly formatted

[20:19] <rick_h_> I won't try to say it's easy, but with a Jam it's easier to get through 
things. Almost like a classroom

[20:19] <rick_h_> Second, if you can, try to make it meaningful to the participants. I asked 
people to bring something they'd like to see packaged, updated, etc.

[20:19] <rick_h_> One guy brought up this xastir package that was out of date.

[20:19] <rick_h_> When we got to talking about updating packages with a new upstream tarball, 
we use xastir as a second example.

[20:20] <rick_h_> This way, he left with something a bit more real then packaging the hello 
application

[20:20] <rick_h_> He had a need to learn packaging and when he went home, he could work on 
that package.

[20:20] <rick_h_> after all, we all want to learn how to package things for some reason

[20:21] <rick_h_> myself I took what I learned and combined with the Launchpad PPAs helped do 
the first packages for the Gnome Do application

[20:21] <rick_h_> suddenly the user base went boom! People want easy to install applications

[20:22] <rick_h_> I'd like to think the xastir guy would be likely to maintain/update that 
package in the future.

[20:22] <rick_h_> Syntux> QUESTION: Giving participant the liberty to pick the package would 
make things harder on the instructor side especially if he's not a MOTU, or there is a 
magical trick around that?

[20:22] <rick_h_> First, if you can get examples ahead of time the better

[20:23] <rick_h_> we had a few guys bring things, one wanted to learn how to do a 
meta-package for his work stuff

[20:23] <rick_h_> which we didn't get to and our former MOTU couldn't recall how to do

[20:23] <rick_h_> so there's definitely some practical side to things

[20:23] <rick_h_> but any time you can get someone a practical use for this stuff he'll leave 
happier

[20:23] <rick_h_> I mean, we all went to school and had to learn a bunch of stuff...but the 
coolest was the stuff we could use

[20:24] <rick_h_> make sense?

[20:24] <rick_h_> ScottK: definitely. At the time the docs were setup to start with packaging 
Hello fresh

[20:24] <rick_h_> and it's definitely harder to do

[20:24] <rick_h_> dholbach has done some great work making it a bit different now

[20:24] <rick_h_> the hands on guide, fixing the bug first, is much easier to get into

[20:25] <rick_h_> and I'd definitely suggest starting with those smaller examples before 
moving up to packaging new stuff

[20:25] <rick_h_> there's a lot more use in fixes/updating vs new software for the most part 
anyway

[20:25] <rick_h_> So ask people to bring problems. This will definitely add to the amount of 
time needed, but really adds a LOT to the jam.

[20:26] <rick_h_> so that's about what there to a jam

[20:26] <rick_h_> mentor, people, venue, plan

[20:27] <rick_h_> So let's say you had a jam, make sure to let us know.

[20:27] <rick_h_> There's a bunch of wiki pages for showing you have a jam coming, and 
telling us how it went.

[20:27] <rick_h_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/RunningPackagingJam add it to the events page: 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Events

[20:27] <rick_h_> Blog about it coming up and let us know so we can blog about it. We want 
you to have a great audience.

[20:27] <rick_h_> our first jam was 8 people with only 1 knowing much about packaging and 
that was about right I flet

[20:28] <rick_h_> felt*

[20:28] <rick_h_> Finally, make sure you follow up.

[20:28] <rick_h_> I know we've planned on holding another jam here soon.

[20:28] <rick_h_> Now that the first one is over with there's a larger pool of people to help 
run it.

[20:28] <rick_h_> There's also the possibility of having a second “advanced” track for next 
time.

[20:29] <rick_h_> it's definitely not something that is limited to a one time thing, there's 
always more to learn/do

[20:29] <rick_h_> So repeat of my email in case anyone needs/wants any info 
rharding@mitechie.com

[20:29] <rick_h_> Does anyone have any questions?

[20:29] <rick_h_> kind of ran through that quick...make sense to everyone?

[20:30] <ompaul> <Syntux> QUESTION: Would you recommend any prerequisite to the audience?

[20:30] <rick_h_> hmm, well I made sure I sent out links ahead of time for people to do any 
pre-reading they could do

[20:30] <ompaul> <Syntux> I'm actually reading up to run a packaging jam but I'm bit afraid 
of doing so :D

[20:30] <rick_h_> the big thing is that packaging work is terminal work

[20:31] <rick_h_> so make sure people are aware of that.

[20:31] <ompaul> <jcastro> QUESTION: Can you talk about bitesize bugs?

[20:31] <rick_h_> it hasn't been an issue, but some people think the terminal will bite them

[20:31] <rick_h_> bitesize bugs, that's a new packagers playground

[20:32] <rick_h_> sec, let me find the link

[20:32] <rick_h_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize

[20:32] <rick_h_> so bitesize bugs are bugs that someone has looked at

[20:32] <rick_h_> and found should be a small quick fix

[20:33] <rick_h_> often you see things like a package is missing a .desktop file

[20:33] <rick_h_> something that's pretty easy for someone learning to package to bite into

[20:33] <rick_h_> so a good follow up packaging jam would be to hold a bitesize bug session

[20:33] <rick_h_> get those guys/gals back together and see if together you can tackle some 
of those bitesize bugs

[20:34] <ScottK> dholbach has a list of 'really-fix-it' bugs

[20:35] <ScottK> This is a list of bugs that have fixes somewhere, they just need to be 
brought into Ubuntu.

[20:35] <jcastro> http://daniel.holba.ch/really-fix-it/

[20:35] <ScottK> These are much easier to work on than new packages and let you start 
relatively small and work up.

[20:35] <rick_h_> RainCT ran a jam. What did you think? Did people get something out of it?

[20:36] <ScottK> You also dono't need to know programming, just packaging since there's 
already a fix out there somewhere.

[20:36] <rick_h_> great point, packaging != programming all the time.

[20:36] <rick_h_> it can definitely help in some cases, but don't let that stop you from 
getting involved and learning

[20:36] <ScottK> As a MOTU, I find what we really need is more help making our existing 
packages better.

[20:37] <ScottK> We'll never package everything, but it's important to work to improve 
quality of what we have.

[20:38] <rick_h_> any other questions?

[20:38] <rick_h_> Syntux: what keeps you from having a jam?

[20:40] <rick_h_> Syntux: definitely understand with a small user base it's hard to get the 
knowledge in there

[20:40] <rick_h_> but make sure you check if there's anyone in your area, ask around

[20:40] <rick_h_> in our case I didn't know Aaron our former MOTU

[20:40] <rick_h_> he didn't attend the loco, or even our local LUG

[20:40] <rick_h_> and it was by word of mouth and me asking around if anyone know packaging 
we found him to help

[20:41] <rick_h_> So hope you see the cool potential. It's a bit of good ole 2 heads > 1

[20:41] <rick_h_> and if you can get 8 guys together, there's now a lot more people in the 
area to help with things

[20:42] <rick_h_> I ran into a guy that attended the first jam and he was working on getting 
together with his fav software project to help them and their ubuntu packaging

[20:42] <rick_h_> so it's very cool to see stuff like this pay off down the road

[20:43] <rick_h_> and hey, we need more balloons on the map: 
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=108939198110825717970.000446fc38319d9edd513&z=3

[20:43] <ompaul> Syntux> rick_h_, you just inspired me; I'll try to get some soon-to-graduate 
CS students to get them package their projects.

[20:44] <rick_h_> Syntux: well take ScottK's advice though. Definitely start with existing 
stuff

[20:44] <rick_h_> MUCH MUCH easier

[20:44] <rick_h_> that's why the newer hands on docs are so great

[20:44] <rick_h_> people want to feel like they made progress quickly

[20:44] <rick_h_> Rock On balloons!

[20:45] <rick_h_> well, if you want to give it a shot, feel free to ask me anything

[20:45] <rick_h_> most of the docs are good at pointing you where to go

[20:48] <rick_h_> so who's next in this fine openweek?

[20:48] <jcastro> next up is xivulon with Wubi, in about 12 minutes!