Ubuntu Wiki

Ubuntu Open Week - Ubuntu on UMPC - Oliver Grawert - Mon, Nov 3rd, 2008

(01:05:27 PM) ogra: ok. lets get started
(01:05:46 PM) ogra: so i'm here to talk about ubuntu-umpc and the work we do in the mobile team in general
(01:06:26 PM) ogra: ubuntu-mobile started in 7.10 as a joint project between the moblin community and ubuntu
(01:06:57 PM) ogra: back then basically the ubuntu mobile team just adopted the moblin technology into ubuntu to make it work
(01:07:43 PM) ogra: with hardy a first public imag for so called mobile internet devices, so called MIDs was released
(01:07:53 PM) ogra: *image
(01:08:22 PM) ogra: basicall that included the hildon technology for mobile desktops and was focused on intel atm CPUs
(01:08:26 PM) ogra: *atom
(01:08:50 PM) ogra: which made ubuntu also inrotude the lpia (low power intel) architecture
(01:09:20 PM) ogra: which supposedly had some enhancements to kernel and toolchain to make use of the atom specific powermanagement features
(01:10:02 PM) ogra: the hardy MID image was still built using the moblin image creator which didnt work so well with established image building technologies
(01:10:18 PM) ogra: s/established/established ubuntu/
(01:10:48 PM) ogra: so the image build process in intrepid was reworked to be closer to the ubuntu infrastructure ...
(01:11:16 PM) ogra: alongside an additional flavour was created, the so called ubuntu UMPC flavour
(01:11:56 PM) ogra: so with intrepid we have the ubuntu-mid and ubuntu-umpc flavour ... both targeting mobile devices, basically focussing touchscreens ...
(01:12:40 PM) ogra: while -mid is targeting the realysmall devices with screens from 4-7", umpc is thought for bigger ones like the samsung Q1U for example
(01:12:48 PM) ogra: i.e. 7-9 or 10"
(01:13:14 PM) ogra: mid is still built based on the hildon and mobin technology
(01:13:54 PM) ogra: while umpc is targeting devices that usually come with windows vista today, so it was decided to use a standard gnome desktop and make it suitable for touchscreen use
(01:14:29 PM) ogra: since the typical umpc devices are as powerful as a laptop today
(01:14:45 PM) ogra: screenshots of ubuntu umpc can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/
(01:15:25 PM) ogra: many people decided to use UMPC on netbooks as well where the mobile team had a lot of positive feedback
(01:16:22 PM) ogra: some people also expect to use the applications from ubuntu netbook remix on top of this image which is easily possible (i'm in the process of putting a hwto together atm that should be up tomorrow)
(01:16:43 PM) ogra: so that should roughly suffice as introduction of what ubuntu-umpc is
(01:17:42 PM) ogra: as a note, people that have followed the dev process in intrepid might have seen the image referred to as ubuntu-mobile, late in the cycle we decided to step away from that generic name
(01:17:50 PM) ogra: so thus the name ubuntu-umpc
(01:17:58 PM) ogra: lets get to some questions :D
(01:18:16 PM) ogra: Q: what is the current status of the relationship with moblin and will moblin 2 be available for umpc and mid
(01:18:57 PM) ogra: i'm personally only working on -umpc but we will go on to base the -mid image on hildon 2 technology and very likely also import a lot from moblin2
(01:19:20 PM) ogra: Q  is my asus eee 1000h a UMPC?
(01:19:51 PM) ogra: well, yes and no ... it is surely a netbook and you can definately run -umpc on it (naively or tweaked to use the netbook apps)
(01:20:34 PM) ogra: we are mainly focussing on touchscreens atm but there is a loose plan to add a bootmenu to the jaunty image that offers selection between the two desktop setups
(01:20:56 PM) ogra: Q: If a user wanted Ubutnu Mobile on their UMPC, how would they go about installing it, and is it a relatively easy process for the user
(01:20:57 PM) ogra: yes :)
(01:21:18 PM) ogra: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/release/ has the iage
(01:21:31 PM) ogra: and a link to instructions how to get the image onto a USB key
(01:22:03 PM) ogra: we provide a gui tool in a PPA that hopefully will join the archive in jaunty to make it easy to write usb images to usb keys
(01:22:16 PM) ogra: Q: What is the relationship between Ubuntu Netbook Remix and Ubuntu Mobile
(01:22:33 PM) ogra: the netbook remix is a remix, specifically targeting OEMs
(01:22:57 PM) ogra: the most significant difference is the set of desktop apps
(01:23:27 PM) ogra: and a set of patches to the default apps that make them work on 1024x600 pixel sized screens
(01:23:59 PM) ogra: the set of the four apps is already available in intrepid, the patches are supposed to enter ubuntu at some point and the umpc image will benefit from it
(01:24:28 PM) ogra: Q: are there any proved benefits to lpia and will ume continue to use it
(01:24:56 PM) ogra: we will review and test the benefits very closely during the jaunty release cycle, a spec is registered for this
(01:25:41 PM) ogra: currently the lpia builds include a bit more than just the kernel and toolchain changes, some apps carry patches that make them work better with hildon for example
(01:26:13 PM) ogra: to have both in x86 or amd64 flavours new binary packages would need to be created which isnt the case yet
(01:26:59 PM) ogra: thats a uge amount of work and while i cant talk for the whole team here i would assume that moving al these changes back to the normal arches will likely take more tzhan one release cycle
(01:27:27 PM) ogra: Q: wiil the ume team specialize into a flavour for eeepc, one for aspire one etc
(01:27:29 PM) ogra: no
(01:27:55 PM) ogra: what we are trying to achieve in the mobile team is the same the ubuntu distro tem does
(01:28:10 PM) ogra: we try to build something generic that runs on a special size/set of HW
(01:28:53 PM) ogra: but withing that class of devices the images should run on every device
(01:29:20 PM) ogra: the oem team that produces the netbook remix does a great job of doing device specific customization and this task will stay in their realm, the mobile team tries to achive generic enablement
(01:29:54 PM) ogra: Q: can umpc software be run on an regular pc i386 , and are there any virtualbox images to take a look at the software?
(01:30:22 PM) ogra: the current umpc image is i386 based and does all the standard gnome applications you also find on the normal ubuntu desktop
(01:31:01 PM) ogra: target of the umpc image is to just make these apps work on the screensize (i.e. for netbooks) and to make them touchscreen usable (for UMPCs)
(01:31:18 PM) ogra: Q: Is there any possibility or plans to use Ubuntu in NOKIA N810?
(01:31:43 PM) ogra: the n800/810 uses an ARM cpu, an arch for which we dont have support yet
(01:33:18 PM) ogra: theer were discussions at the last UDS about arm enablement and if it comes to an arm port at some pint that launchpad supports in the infrastructure, the desktop flavours should just run on it or be proted to it
(01:33:48 PM) ogra: that includes umpc and desktop ... and who knows, probably even -mid ... i cant predict the future :)
(01:34:06 PM) ogra: Q: how would a common base shared by both Nokia  and Ubuntu and indeed Debian look like...how can the fragmentation be
(01:35:20 PM) ogra: well, as i see it the maemo comminuty did awesome work on the maemo front, they are basically upstream for hildon and hildon2 so i would assume a possible arm build would bring the communities together to share code etc
(01:36:14 PM) ogra: but here my crystal ball starts to get blurry again, everything depends on support for arm in the infrastructure, which is not here yet :)
(01:36:28 PM) ogra: Q: is the OLPC capable for Ubuntu mobile?
(01:36:33 PM) ogra: probably ...
(01:36:57 PM) ogra: i havent tried an OLPC with it yet, but i would assume it can run at least ubuntu-mid
(01:37:57 PM) ogra: i was working personally on a classmatePC image for a while, which even was capable to run a normal edubuntu gnome desktop, so i dont see why an OLPC shouldnt be able to run something of the mobile builds which has a raher smaller footprint
(01:38:16 PM) ogra: Q: Recently there were some fuss with a high rate of netbooks rejected by customers because they couldn't install their windows apps in them (live messenger i.e.) which strateegy is planned in that front?
(01:38:52 PM) ogra: thats really a question i cant answer personally, we dont work directly on the marketing side of things with the mobile team
(01:39:10 PM) ogra: i dont even know if these claims are true nor do i know abotu such a feedback
(01:39:30 PM) ogra: Q:  Is somebody considering integrating a KDE environment like Qtopia in one of the -MID or -UMPC?
(01:40:18 PM) ogra: yes, there was recently some discussion about KDE integration in the #ubuntu-mobile channel, i think the kubuntu community is actively starting to work on something, but i dont know details beyond that
(01:40:39 PM) ogra: peobably ask in #kubuntu to get more info ... something's going on there definately :)
(01:40:53 PM) ogra: Q: is there a #ubuntu-umpc or a mailling list?
(01:41:39 PM) ogra: not specifically ... since the mobile team works n the images, we do all our coordination in #ubuntu-mobile, feel free to join any time, we appreciate every soul in there :)
(01:42:18 PM) ogra: we also hold meetings every thursday in #ubuntu-meeting everyone is invited t join and give input
(01:42:41 PM) ogra: and ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com is our mailing list
(01:43:08 PM) ogra: Q: What do you think about promises of the devices based on ARM and MIPS as UMPC?
(01:43:13 PM) ogra: ... i cant make any :)
(01:43:39 PM) ogra: but they would surely be great ... i'm an n800 owner myself and would appreciate to run ubuntu on it
(01:44:04 PM) ogra: Q: Which UMPC's seem to "just work" the best with Ubuntu-umpc?
(01:44:26 PM) ogra: definately the samsung Q1 Ultra as many of us in the development team own one as development platform
(01:44:39 PM) ogra: so you can largely assume this works best
(01:45:11 PM) ogra: Q: It is possible make UMPC from PDA by Ubuntu if will be ARM port?
(01:45:34 PM) ogra: that would surely be possible if there were an arm port
(01:46:15 PM) ogra: things like opie and gpe are in the archive, if the PDA is a bit bigger even the mid flavour might work on it, but that depends on an arm port indeed
(01:47:30 PM) ogra: so it looks like i ran out of questions :)
(01:48:56 PM) ogra: Q: hp is using ubuntu on its new netbooks, are there others planning the same?
(01:49:11 PM) ogra: well, there is also dell, sylvania and toshiba already
(01:50:04 PM) ogra: i'm not sure who else will be in the loop, thats something the oem and marketing teams might be able to answer
(01:50:20 PM) ogra: Q: what are the biggest obstacles that you're encountering at the moment?
(01:50:50 PM) ogra: well, with intrepid i personally simply found out that nothing sucks as hard as our touchscreen suport
(01:51:11 PM) ogra: as ido_ noted, there will be much work done in jaunty to solve that
(01:51:29 PM) maniacmusician: can you speak to that in a more technical sense?
(01:51:36 PM) ogra: upstream xorg is working on a unified architecture to get all touchscreens use evdev on X level
(01:51:48 PM) ogra: we plan to work closely with them
(01:52:08 PM) ogra: maniacmusician, well, there is been no proper calibration tool for example
(01:52:23 PM) skate_archone left the room ("Leaving").
(01:52:31 PM) ogra: the one the evtouch driver used to ship since years in debian and ubuntu didnt even work
(01:53:12 PM) ogra: my personal focus to get at least the code we ship into shape this release, the next round we'll try to work more with upstream to solve it for all possible touchsceens
(01:53:44 PM) ogra: indeed that needs your input :) we hope to get enough user feedback and testing for real massive inprovements
(01:53:55 PM) ogra: : Is LG KS20 going to be supported?
(01:54:22 PM) ogra: sorry, no idea, i would need the tech specs, feel free to drop by after the talk in #ubuntu-mobile ;)
(01:54:32 PM) ogra: QUESTION: Will the netbook versions and umpc versions be upgradeable too similar to the main distro ?
(01:54:35 PM) ogra: yes !
(01:55:09 PM) ogra: they are absolutely upgradeable like the main distro with teh intrepid image
(01:55:34 PM) ido_: is it safe to ues the auto-update feature on the umpc versions then ?
(01:55:39 PM) ogra: Q: Is there any advantage to the netbook manufacturers in using 64 bit rather than 32 bit Ubuntu releases
(01:56:16 PM) ogra: well, i personally usualy only see drawbacks in 64bit arches since you likely run into probs with flash and the like
(01:56:26 PM) ogra: which is a typically used app on netbooks
(01:56:35 PM) ogra: but thats a solely personal optinion
(01:57:03 PM) ogra: given that ATOM atm only supports 1G ram i dont see many benefits for using 64bit OSes on netbooks
(01:57:29 PM) ogra: ido_, yes it is
(01:57:45 PM) ogra: we'll make sure the images are as properly upgradeable as the main distro
(01:57:53 PM) ogra: Q: umpc devices are as powerful as a laptop -> How can you explain users having issues with HD video on a UMPC
(01:57:59 PM) ogra: ^^^ got that in PM
(01:58:32 PM) ogra: well, i simply cant without debugging ;)
(01:58:40 PM) ogra: i havent heard these issues yet
(01:58:55 PM) ogra: i personally use a dvb-t card on my samsung which works fine
(01:59:12 PM) jcastro: ok, just about out of time
(01:59:14 PM) ogra: Q:image build process in intrepid was reworked to be closer to the ubuntu infrastructure -> how about the repository infrastructure and the delays in packaging/testing for lpia, how long is the average wait between i386 and lpia and what are the limitationsor packages that can't be used on
(01:59:24 PM) ogra: lpi architechture
(01:59:41 PM) ogra: there essentially is no wait anymore now
(01:59:57 PM) ogra: apart from packages that actually get patches on the desktop level to work with hildon
(02:00:25 PM) ogra: for these indeed its a matter of integrating the hildon side of things, but that has nothing to do with the build infrastructure
(02:00:59 PM) ogra: lpia currently is a fully working arch on te build servers and packages should usually build at the same time as the i386 ones
(02:01:12 PM) Tolchi: ty ogra
(02:01:17 PM) jcastro: thanks ogra!
(02:01:17 PM) ogra: ok, seems we'Re running out of time ... so iÄll leave the stage to jorge
(02:01:25 PM) ogra: thaks everyone