== Discussion Points == * Possible activities for the team * Press release * One for F2F support, one for the LoCo in general * F2F organization * Part of the NU Team * CD distribution * Artwork (official vs. our own) * Regions for distributing * Ubunteros == Log == {{{ 20:00:25 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Vorian 20:00:26 * Vorian has changed the topic to: Welcome To Ubuntu Ohio! || Now Organizing Teams - see http://ohio.ubuntu-us.com || Join in Party Planning for the release of Feisty Fawn April 20th and 21st || Meeting RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!! 20:00:26 * ChanServ removes channel operator status from Vorian 20:00:36 i like that word 20:00:42 Me too 20:00:56 Love Matters. Family Matters. Freedom Matters. :-) 20:01:02 yeah i quit my wednesday shift at the dining hall 20:01:10 Welcome one and all to another glorious Ohio Team Meeting! 20:01:21 How-How-Howdy 20:01:21 * hackle577 claops 20:01:35 * zerhacke waits for the applause sigh. 20:01:38 sign 20:01:42 lol 20:01:43 Let me start by thanking meatballhat for taking over last week! 20:02:05 * Vorian applauds (late) meatballhat 20:02:14 ?me joins 20:02:19 damn i cant type 20:02:24 hehe 20:02:46 Tonight 20:02:48 Agenda: 20:02:48 Campaigns- 20:02:48 F2F support / press release 20:02:48 Ubuntu Ohio press Release 20:02:48 CD pickup locations.... 20:02:49 Ubuntero Drive (we will match up people who want to be with people who are 20:02:53 for step by step help) after the meeting ends.... 20:02:55 Consolidating Sub Teams 20:03:38 sounds delicious 20:03:45 * meatballhat (n=dbuch@70-39-156-18.clvdoh.adelphia.net) has joined #ubuntu-ohio 20:03:50 ahoy 20:03:55 ahoy matey 20:04:00 arrrrr 20:04:02 * zerhacke laughs his ass off.. heya meatballhat. 20:04:10 you just missed us all aplauding you 20:04:12 Hi meatballhat ! Missed ya 20:04:15 Yes, you did 20:04:19 oh? ... funny that :D 20:04:57 what's the fuss about? 20:05:07 hey meatballhat, I was just thanking you for last week 20:05:21 * goatdad13 (n=dave@ppp-69-223-142-91.dsl.wotnoh.ameritech.net) has joined #ubuntu-ohio 20:05:23 ah! ... for extending the meeting an extra 2 hours :P ? 20:05:32 Is there any unfinished business from last week? 20:05:43 I dont think so? 20:06:02 I see atoponce is joining us again :D 20:06:06 great! 20:07:32 I know meatballhat said we were holding off on our approval from the community council 20:07:38 last week 20:07:55 so 20:08:08 when is our next chance for approval BTW? 20:08:15 next month... 20:08:19 at some point 20:08:22 ok 20:08:57 In order to be ready to go in front of the council, we need some "activities" under our belts 20:09:11 That might be helpful :-) 20:09:13 Any specific kind of activity? 20:10:00 * PriceChild (n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild) has joined #ubuntu-ohio 20:10:03 there are all types 20:10:07 hello PriceChild ! 20:10:23 erm... Hi Vorian 20:10:43 so 20:10:58 * PriceChild points out the http://ohio.ubuntu-us.com link in title is broken 20:11:27 A great idea meatballhat had was a press release 20:11:40 http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/ 20:12:50 Any thoughts on a press release? 20:13:23 it might help to add that the Press Release idea is directly related to the "Face to Face support" thingy 20:13:28 Good idea, what would you wnat it to say 20:13:47 that it's a fast and easy way to show our numbers/dedication/what-have-you 20:14:09 goatdad13: there's a barely-begun draft up here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/PressRelease 20:14:18 who we are (ohio team) what ubuntu is | how we support the transition.... 20:14:43 hello, can I ask a question? 20:14:43 who are we targeting? 20:14:59 what media outlets would we be targeting 20:15:13 print & radio primarily 20:15:15 what angle are we after 20:15:31 * Vorian has quit (Remote closed the connection) 20:15:31 "free stuff that works" angle :D 20:15:43 obtuse 20:15:49 SavatageBT Of course 20:15:50 SavatageBT: shoot! 20:16:44 I accidently found this channel, but hey I live in ohio and I use ubuntu...so how do I get involved? 20:17:02 oooooo! 20:17:18 hackle577: get 'em! :D 20:17:24 lol ok 20:17:33 well Savatage... 20:18:24 I would start here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam 20:18:39 to familiarize yourself with the OhioTeam 20:18:45 * Vorian (n=steve@ubuntu/member/Vorian) has joined #ubuntu-ohio 20:18:50 arg! 20:18:56 * meatballhat admires hackle577's plug for the wiki ;-D 20:19:42 and if you feel you want to become a member after you've seen what we're all about, you can join our team here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-ohio/ 20:20:14 and you're more than welcome to hang out for tonights meeting! 20:20:24 cool 20:20:43 if you have any specific questions, i'd reccommend asking Vorian aka Steve 20:20:48 meatballhat: barely begun is an understatement 20:21:05 20:21:20 * Vorian is sorry for his rural internet disruptions... 20:21:22 goatdad13: I was waiting for input from Canonical, as they offered to advise, but they're a bit too busy it seems ;) 20:21:45 Vorian: you missed this: SavatageBT: I accidently found this channel, but hey I live in ohio and I use ubuntu...so how do I get involved? 20:21:46 meatballhat, what do you think about just shooting one off? 20:22:00 pr that is.... 20:22:31 Vorian: I have no problem with sending something off to the press without pretending to represent the Ubuntu community *too* much :) 20:22:37 Vorian: Should we organize the F2F a little more before releasing the PR? 20:22:39 I'd really love to have Canonical's blessing, that's all 20:22:41 welcome SavatageBT :) 20:22:46 Vorian: Or drafting it? 20:22:52 mbh: did u write or is this from canonical's? 20:23:01 F2F is not that tricky to organize 20:23:04 * hackle577 is keeping score! PriceChild and technically Vorian entered the room after 8:10 20:23:12 goatdad13: you mean that lonely paragraph? ... it's mine :P 20:23:34 organizing F2F support will be 20:23:35 Vorian: Okee dokee 20:23:36 we can talk later 20:23:37 step 1 20:23:42 get volunteers 20:23:44 F2F means? 20:23:49 Face 2 Face 20:23:56 Oh. Call me stupid. lol 20:23:58 step 2 20:24:04 hackle577, ? 20:24:16 list and publish volunteers 20:24:24 (email only) 20:24:30 PriceChild: a little wager that we who where early made 20:24:31 step 3 20:24:35 *were 20:24:40 mentor new users 20:25:11 all a new user need is one person they can count on for answers 20:25:22 As a shameful plug, if you haven't picked up the Ubuntu Book it's a good reference for helping others also. 20:25:34 I'll volunteer. As a disabled American I am available almost all day every day. 20:25:36 hackle577, a wager on me? how'd you know I was coming? 20:25:39 and that person doesn't need to have all the answers, but where to find them! 20:25:41 theidiotthatisme: +1 20:26:06 PriceChild: a wager on how many people would show up in the room after 8:10 lol 20:26:07 * meatballhat also recommends "Ubuntu Hacks" 20:26:13 theidiotthatisme, yes :) 20:26:39 theidiotthatisme: what does the Ubu Book contain, specifically? 20:27:16 I think we can do two (2) press releases 20:27:25 one for Ubuntu in Ohio 20:27:26 hackle577: Background information on Ubuntu, installation and introduction to Ubuntu/Kubuntu, installing software, setting up printers, setting up servers, and desktop "recipes" (or hints) and some other stuff 20:27:38 One for Face 2 Face support 20:27:50 meatballhat, what say you? 20:27:52 Vorian: +1 20:27:59 great! 20:28:02 goatdad13: whaddya think? 20:28:02 theidiotthatisme: thanks 20:28:22 thoughts anyone on 2 press releases? 20:28:31 yea or nay? 20:28:38 one for F2F and the other... ? 20:28:38 hackle577: No problem. For those used to Ubuntu, it's a good reference. It's also good for hints in setting up stuff like Samba, and accessing Windows shares 20:28:47 hackle577, yes 20:28:55 the other is Ubuntu in Ohio 20:29:00 ahh ok 20:29:00 Vorian: What would the PR be exactly for Ubuntu in Ohio? 20:29:05 bug # 1 and all that 20:29:19 theidiotthatisme, ^^ 20:29:21 first one should be a general one about Ubuntu Ohio 20:29:28 goatdad13, right on! 20:29:35 and bug #1 20:29:40 after it is set up F2F 20:30:02 nothing like getting word out and not having a product 20:30:10 kinda blows credibility 20:30:17 yeah just a tad 20:30:20 goatdad13: +1 20:31:27 So definitely should organize it :-) 20:31:38 Vorian: about setting up F2F ... it's under New Users Subteam, yes? 20:32:07 meatballhat: I believe so 20:32:27 yes 20:32:34 meatballhat, yes* 20:33:03 is it fair to say that the New Users Subteam is the place to be for pretty much *all* OhioTeam members, then? :D ... if we all want to be part of F2F 20:33:31 * meatballhat is thinking that most of us probably already *are* doing F2F on some level 20:34:05 right meatballhat! 20:34:23 could we simply declare that F2F is part of our core mission as a LoCo Team? 20:34:38 ...and that all members are potential F2F support members? 20:34:40 meatballhat, yes I believe so... 20:34:51 eh, i dont know 20:34:59 hackle577, wha! 20:35:06 i'm still pretty much in the newb phase 20:35:08 jj 20:35:16 i wouldnt say all 20:35:17 hackle577: It's ok I am too 20:35:23 me too 20:35:32 But I must say I think we should keep it under NU 20:35:45 F2F requires a bit more time than say, CD Distribution 20:35:55 I'm still visiting the forums quite often for minor details 20:35:58 ok so F2F is New User 20:36:15 yeah, that seems most logical to me 20:36:36 welllll .... what are the most common types of New User problems we've seen? anyone? 20:36:44 as for F2F, we need volunteers who are comfortable offering guidance... 20:37:01 after all, we can't force people to learn to use linux 20:37:09 Sign me up. If anyone needs assistance they can email me for support 20:37:12 ...and most of the guidance I've had to offer New Users has to do with getting around Gnome :) 20:37:24 * Vorian is a gnome man 20:37:57 most New Users I've converted are not former MS or OSX power users .. they just wanna get online and send email 20:37:57 I'm a fan of all the DE's 20:38:01 gnome, whooo hoooo 20:38:19 * meatballhat is all about the gnome, too :D 20:38:25 hehe 20:38:45 ...and the MS/OSX power users who *have* converted already know how to figure things out for themselves 20:39:06 Pfft, E DR17 beats Gnome. :D 20:39:11 so 1.) PR about Ubuntu in Ohio / Ohio LoCo Team info 20:39:16 * hackle577 was an XP power user, if there is such a thing 20:39:24 anything more complicated than basic internet/email/office usage is usually in the commercial realm anyway, which is what the Ubuntu Partners are for 20:39:25 2.) Free as Beer support! 20:40:05 i like the press release idea 20:40:09 get the word out 20:40:09 Vorian: +1 :D 20:40:25 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Vorian 20:40:25 * Vorian has changed the topic to: Welcome To Ubuntu Ohio! || Now Organizing Teams - see http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org || Join in Party Planning for the release of Feisty Fawn April 20th and 21st || Meeting RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!! 20:40:25 * ChanServ removes channel operator status from Vorian 20:40:30 great! 20:40:33 lets do it 20:40:37 As soon as my internship starts I can provide an official, this is a real business venue in Eastern Ohio for Ubuntu. Is that press release worthy? 20:40:50 zerhacke, YAY! 20:41:00 :D 20:41:05 I'm just thinking that any individual team member who isn't comfortable being relied upon for F2F can simply pass the buck to another team member ... where's the harm? 20:41:21 meatballhat, no harm 20:41:22 * meatballhat thinks OhioTeam == F2F team 20:41:37 * meatballhat thinks New Users == second tier support 20:41:41 As far as F2F goes, I'm comfortable offering help as needed. I've been with Linux since Yggdrasil so I know my way around. 20:41:44 zerhacke: we might be able to fashion that into an introductory release 20:41:44 lets move that discussion to the mailing list 20:41:56 as for activity #3...... 20:42:04 Sweet, goatdad13, I'll be sure to report back just as soon as I get the official go ahead from my boss. 20:42:42 meatballhat & I need to discuss what direction these will head but I think we can get a decent release going 20:42:59 we will need a media list of outlets we want to target 20:43:07 goatdad13: Marketing Team is on the case! :D 20:43:16 as for activity #3...... 20:43:23 An easy one.... 20:43:34 Find locations in your town 20:43:45 to drop off CD's 20:44:03 We make a list of where a person can pick up CD's 20:44:17 and a map 20:44:27 and 20:44:37 bamo! activity accomplished! 20:44:43 Any questions? 20:44:46 Vorian: Is there a place or person we should report to once we get approved for distributing locations? 20:44:51 I'm thinking Frappr, is that it? 20:44:53 me 20:44:59 theidiotthatisme, let me know 20:45:01 I suggest the CDs should come from Shipit instead of burn your owns. Looks more professional. 20:45:17 zerhacke: that brings me to a point I have brought up before 20:45:20 zerhacke: agreed 20:45:26 zerhacke: ideally, yes :) ... but we all know how long that takes :( 20:45:39 meatballhat, yeah, 4+ weeks. 20:45:45 theidiotthatisme: LightScribe? :D 20:45:51 I am getting my lightscribe this weekend. Would you guys like the regular artwork used or a custom artwork with "Distributed by your Ohio LoCo" 20:45:58 One thing I have done here in Chillicothe is have the libraries keep them to check out.... 20:46:07 +1 for official artwork 20:46:10 The libraries loved it! 20:46:13 meatballhat: You know me way too well. 20:46:35 theidiotthatisme, collaborate with me on the artwork you use. I'm in process of setting up an unofficial Ubuntu-Ohio usplash and it would be an extra nice touch to have the artwork coincide. 20:46:37 Vorian: Tomorrow or Friday I will look into several locations, including one or two on campus for distribution 20:46:38 Vorian: that's a great idea! ... did you "donate" them? 20:46:50 theidiotthatisme, great! 20:46:59 meatballhat, yes, they love donations 20:47:08 Next on my list after the usplash is a gdm theme, a gnome splash, and a wallpaper. 20:47:10 zerhacke: Unfortunately I am not an artist, Marketing might be good at it though 20:47:27 Libraries love to get cutting edge computer stuff! 20:47:27 I'm no artist either. I'm utilizing my wife's graphic ability. 20:47:29 Vorian: What was your approach with your library? 20:47:35 * meatballhat strongly urges distribution of official Ubuntu artwork when done as a LoCo Team ... what one does as self is one's own biz 20:47:49 want to throw this out as for me as a new linux user....what I found most frustrating was every one telling you about cryptic command line stuff to type in....migrating from windows to linux...new user need ways they can do things in the gui...Thats what I do for new linux users I show them how to use the gui and nautlis and such as root so they can get into it more...nothing drives people crazy like command line they dont understand...I spent al 20:47:49 low of time finding ways to do as much as possible in the gui 20:48:10 I went in and told them I would donate these CD's if they would be so kind as to have them available to check out to the public 20:48:11 libraries, any type of small computer repair companies 20:48:11 SavatageBT: I understand your point 20:48:25 SavatageBT: +1 for easing into CLI 20:48:35 SavatageBT: I personally set up people with ubuntu to include some options for them so they dont have to fiddle with commandline 20:49:42 F2F support volunteers can sign up now on the NU wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/NewUserTeam 20:49:45 will these CD's have any type of installation in?structions 20:49:56 or at least someone to contact 20:50:16 hackle577, great idea! thanks :) 20:50:23 goatdad13: that's where I think Marketing comes in once again ... getting some extra documentation ready that's written for "Ohioans" 20:50:36 hackle577, joined! 20:50:44 Well, pending approval of course. 20:50:47 meatballhat, what about southern ohioans? 20:50:49 zerhacke: word :-P 20:51:00 hackle577: Should we use display names or our real names? :-) 20:51:08 i am also now in southern ohio i guess, back at school 20:51:13 goatdad13: I was sending an email off to my grandparents and decided to post it to the wiki instead: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/UbuntuCDExplanation 20:51:27 zerhacke, done :) 20:51:30 theidiotthatisme: real probably 20:51:37 Wow, you're on the ball Vorian. 20:51:38 up to you I gues 20:52:16 hackle577, I'm a southerner too :) 20:52:35 vorian: I'm in Butler county now, at college 20:52:49 ok so everyone psyched about giving CD's to libraries? 20:53:01 Another mailing list item! 20:53:13 Vorian: +1 fo' sho' ... libraries are my jom 20:53:15 * etank has quit (Connection timed out) 20:53:21 bye etank 20:53:32 great! 20:53:46 I have three locations in Chillicothe already 20:54:04 I can cover the new library and the old library in Cambridge, and maybe the Chamber of Commerce. 20:54:17 I can work on covering more of East Ohio. 20:54:21 anybody else here in Cuyahoga, Summit, Medina? 20:54:21 I can do libraries perhaps, not gaurantees regarding if they'll try it or not, since they are affliated with the university, which probably has policies about that sort of thing 20:55:22 goatdad13: what do you think about the Marketing Team putting together some "liner notes?" 20:55:40 sounds like we are going to have to do something 20:55:47 I'll attempt our on campus library and/or bookstore, our town library, and maybe find somewhere in the mall even 20:56:00 * meatballhat recommends Scribus over OOo for such stuff 20:56:04 I must say though, if I picked up a brand new LiveCD, i'd want some F2F love before I tried anything I wasn't familiar with 20:56:06 what kind of packaging will the cd's be in when they are dropped off at the locations 20:56:47 I would also suggest anytime of coffee shop where people can use laptops 20:56:47 goatdad13: can we depend on libraries to stick 'em into those translucent plastic deals? :D 20:56:54 goatdad13: I'm guessing the official shipit packaging, or if burned with the official artwork, slim jewel cases 20:57:13 Oh yeah, coffee shop is a good idea. We have one here in town. 20:57:21 It's one of the wireless hotspots here. 20:57:30 zerhacke: That's a great idea. 20:57:38 any place that is a wifi hotspot 20:57:47 Also if you have any local computer shops, maybe see if an employee there uses Linux and talk it up 20:57:54 goatdad13: good idea 20:57:56 many McDonald's are now becoming open hotspots 20:58:01 yeah 20:58:06 theidiotthatisme, unfortunately I *am* the Linux geek in this town. 20:58:08 lol 20:58:12 must hit computer stores heavy 20:58:23 i still like the idea of ubuntu live cds in places like best buy 20:58:26 ;) 20:58:37 hahah someone had that idea in here a while ago. 20:58:40 * meatballhat will be visiting every Bust Buy, Circuit City, etc. in Cuyahoga Co. :D 20:58:47 hah 20:58:53 there are no computer places here that i know of 20:58:57 maybe the shop "techies" are already on bandwagon and would be looking to pitch in 20:59:07 * meatballhat is dead flippin' serious 20:59:08 don't forget about the smaller ones as well 20:59:14 theres a Pioneer Programming shop and i think two small computer repair shops 20:59:20 "Ubuntu goes commercial" 20:59:25 * etank (n=elake@74-140-129-0.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #ubuntu-ohio 20:59:32 etank: welcome back! 20:59:37 hi etank 20:59:39 that's 3 baby yeah! 20:59:47 * hackle577 wins! 20:59:48 maybe the larger stores have some deal where they don't do things like this 20:59:50 hey guys 20:59:56 just playing devils advocate 21:00:07 possibly yes 21:00:09 kids bedtime must take my leave for now 21:00:12 * Vorian would not allow such things in my store.... 21:00:32 goatdad13: would you mind sending me an email when you're able? :) 21:00:46 goatdad13: Kids first :-) 21:01:30 * meatballhat waves g'night to all as well 21:01:36 g'night 21:01:38 night meatballhat! 21:01:52 ok, lets continue this on the mailing list.... 21:01:58 * meatballhat (n=dbuch@70-39-156-18.clvdoh.adelphia.net) has left #ubuntu-ohio ("puppies or small dogs?") 21:02:13 but I am not on the mailing list :) 21:02:41 .... 21:02:50 no problem! subscribe here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-oh 21:03:00 SavatageBT, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-oh 21:03:08 bwahahahahhaa 21:03:17 you can subscribe there... :) 21:03:19 lol 21:03:49 SavatageBT, and then go here and join the team... https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-ohio 21:03:51 :) 21:04:06 * Vorian is slow 21:04:14 * Vorian very very slow 21:04:31 So anything else on the agenda? 21:04:35 yes 21:04:53 who wants to be an ubuntero? 21:05:01 Ubuntero? 21:05:06 What exactly is an Ubuntero? 21:05:11 :) 21:05:25 * zerhacke imagines fighting bulls with a Ubuntu logo on them. 21:05:32 on your launchpad account.... 21:05:36 Oh no wait, that's a matador. 21:05:42 under your name it says 21:05:57 ubuntero: (YES) or (NO) 21:06:30 * Vorian waits whilst everyone checks their launchpad account 21:06:43 I'm a no 21:06:49 * etank im good 21:06:50 I'm a no. 21:07:01 mine says No 21:07:05 * Vorian checks his 21:07:10 jj 21:08:38 hello? 21:08:42 err hi 21:08:50 sorry 21:09:01 So what is this Ubuntero? 21:09:15 zerhacke: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember?highlight=%28ubunter... 21:09:17 so, an ubuntero is a ubuntu fanatic who signs the code of coduct 21:09:42 hackle577, nice 21:09:54 * zerhacke reads. 21:10:07 * theidiotthatisme is reading 21:10:09 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Vorian 21:10:09 * PriceChild (n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild) has left #ubuntu-ohio (requested by Vorian) 21:10:09 * ChanServ removes channel operator status from Vorian 21:10:09 * PriceChild (n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild) has joined #ubuntu-ohio 21:11:11 So it's an Ubuntu activist 21:11:14 The important part of the process is signing the code of conduct 21:11:36 theidiotthatisme, yes! exactly! one who has signed the CoC 21:12:05 If you are familiar with pgp encryption, you will have no trouble with the process 21:12:26 if not, I am willing to stick arround and help folks through the process 21:12:33 perks include: an @ubuntu.com email address and logos/artwork for printing your very own Ubu business cards 21:12:34 the site actually walks you through the process pretty well 21:12:49 hackle577, thats ubuntu members... 21:12:53 hackle577: really? 21:12:59 oops 21:12:59 oh never mind 21:13:03 guess not 21:13:05 read too far 21:13:08 hack 21:13:12 asdashdgasdjgk 21:13:50 that would be the next step, however... 21:14:03 ok i signed up guess I need to wait on approval 21:14:36 SavatageBT, done! welcome to the team! 21:14:36 SavatageBT: it should show it right away 21:14:43 hackle577, i thought you said two people would join? :P i said 3 21:14:46 haha 21:14:55 Generating keys now to sign the CoC 21:15:07 rrittenhouse: i did, didn't i??!?!?! damn 21:15:31 i will go with 2 21:15:34 ill go wtih 3 21:15:38 I say 2 21:15:43 hahah 21:15:45 * hackle577 hands trophy to rrittenhouse 21:15:50 hehe 21:15:51 * rrittenhouse does a dance 21:15:53 * hackle577 cries in the corner 21:15:56 rofl 21:16:15 * rrittenhouse gives the trophy back because he hasnt joined in on the conversation as much as he should have 21:16:17 haha 21:16:22 who has an unbroken log... 21:16:29 me. 21:16:36 * anthony_ (n=anthony@nat.defiance.edu) has joined #ubuntu-ohio 21:16:42 ah ha! 21:16:45 haha 21:16:47 that's 4 21:16:49 its after 9 tho 21:16:49 sorry guys internet went out 21:16:50 :P 21:16:52 rrittenhouse, can you email me the log at stalcups@gmail.com 21:16:55 and apparently it kept my name on here >.< 21:16:57 sure 21:17:23 rrittenhouse, thanks!}}}