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## page was copied from QATeam/Meetings/QA/20120815 #title #ubuntu-meeting: Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings

Meeting started by phillw at 14:01:08 UTC. The full logs are available
at
http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-14.01.log.html
.


Line 4: Line 12:
 *Ubuntu Updates  *attendance

 *previous actions
''ACTION:'' balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com (phillw, 14:06:13)
Line 7: Line 18:

 *Abiword

 *AOB
''LINK:'' http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/08/quality-perceptions-survey.html (balloons, 14:26:45)

 *Abiword



Meeting ended at 14:43:18 UTC.
''LINK:'' http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds (smartboyhw, 14:13:14)

 *discussion of test cases on iso tracker

 *Updating Wiki
''ACTION:'' phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki (phillw, 14:27:53)

 *Any Other business, over load of QA team



Meeting ended at 14:54:55 UTC.
Line 28: Line 40:
 * (none)  * balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
 * phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki



== Action items, by person ==

 * balloons
 ** balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
 ** phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki
 * phillw
 ** phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki
Line 34: Line 57:
 * smartboyhw (64)
 * balloons (31)
 * meetingology (3)
 * xnox (2)
 * leadsled (2)
 * ubottu (1)
 * ScottK (1)
 * balloons (65)
 * phillw (53)
 * smartboyhw (40)
 * njin (7)
 * meetingology (5)
 * jibel (4)
Line 47: Line 69:
 14:04:05 <smartboyhw> #startmeeting

 14:04:05 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 15 14:04:05 2012 UTC. The chair is smartboyhw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 14:04:05 <meetingology>

 14:04:05 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

 14:04:18 <smartboyhw> #topic Ubuntu Updates

 14:04:43 <smartboyhw> O

 14:04:45 <smartboyhw> OK

 14:04:53 <smartboyhw> So, Ubuntu 12.04.1 is coming next week

 14:05:12 <smartboyhw> So the testing will be more intense in the coming week

 14:05:38 <smartboyhw> Um...

 14:05:52 <smartboyhw> Hopefully we will get to test all flavors...

 14:05:53 <smartboyhw> ..

 14:05:58 <smartboyhw> balloons: Any updates?

 14:07:04 <balloons> 12.04.1 images will be landing at the beginning of next week, and we'll have our usual round of testing on the images

 14:07:22 <balloons> these will be an lt supdate, so it's really important to watch for regressions.

 14:08:17 <balloons> we don't anticipate respins; aiming for a smooth round of testing :-)

 14:08:17 <balloons> ..

 14:08:21 <smartboyhw> Hmm

 14:08:49 <smartboyhw> balloons: Last time phillw deleted the flavor updates

 14:08:59 <smartboyhw> Is it that we shall never talk about it again?

 14:09:17 <balloons> they've been migrated in the agenda to other updates

 14:09:25 <balloons> use the [TOPIC] so people can follow along :-)

 14:09:29 <smartboyhw> OK

 14:09:34 <smartboyhw> [TOPIC] Ubuntu updates

 14:09:40 <smartboyhw> Yep, then

 14:09:54 <smartboyhw> An agenda item added by phillw: Abiword

 14:10:00 <smartboyhw> [TOPIC] Abiword

 14:10:22 <smartboyhw> balloons: i'm wondering what's that

 14:11:18 <smartboyhw> Someone added AbiWord to the agenda

 14:11:22 <smartboyhw> Is phillw here?

 14:11:30 <balloons> smartboyhw, there is a concern about the stability of abiword in the 12.04 repos

 14:11:38 <balloons> there is a bug opened to this effect, let me find it

 14:11:43 <smartboyhw> balloons: What's abiword

 14:12:18 <balloons> here is the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/1019621

 14:12:19 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019621 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Precise abiword version needs to be reverted to stable release prior to 12.04.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]

 14:12:24 <balloons> abiword is a word processor

 14:12:42 <smartboyhw> OK

 14:13:12 <smartboyhw> Hmm, big bug

 14:13:53 <smartboyhw> ..

 14:14:36 <smartboyhw> balloons: ..?

 14:14:57 <balloons> yes smartboyhw ?

 14:15:26 <balloons> phillw, and lubuntu and presumbably xubuntu flavors are all concerned about this bug

 14:15:32 <smartboyhw> Wow1

 14:15:37 <smartboyhw> Maybe even Ubuntu Studio

 14:15:55 <balloons> likely it will have to be fixed by an update after 12.04.1

 14:16:01 <smartboyhw> OK

 14:16:06 <smartboyhw> ..

 14:17:11 <balloons> ..

 14:17:23 <smartboyhw> OK, then AOB

 14:17:28 <smartboyhw> [TOPIC] AOB

 14:17:40 <smartboyhw> balloons: How is the survey results?

 14:19:24 <balloons> smartboyhw, I intend to post the full result this week

 14:19:33 <balloons> a little preview I can share some details

 14:19:37 <smartboyhw> OK

 14:19:42 <smartboyhw> Please, balloons

 14:20:34 <balloons> the folks answering the survey we about 50/50 split on running the development release

 14:20:53 <smartboyhw> 50/50? I hoped 70/30

 14:21:14 <balloons> the largest number of votes on "what quality means" was "Quality means the default desktop and applications should work without crashing"

 14:21:45 <balloons> Finally, many many folks had never heard of the team before, but most people expressed interest in helping, but they were unsure of time and technical skills

 14:21:46 <smartboyhw> yep, I voted for that:)

 14:22:07 <smartboyhw> balloons: Not good. Nobody heard of the team?:(

 14:22:21 <balloons> good feedback, and as a group we can discuss ways to bring more awareness to the team and share what we're doing with others

 14:22:39 <smartboyhw> balloons: So how do you promote the team?

 14:22:47 <smartboyhw> I mean planning:)

 14:24:11 <smartboyhw> balloons: I mean how will you plan to promote the team.

 14:25:33 <balloons> smartboyhw, promoting the team means more visibility to what we are doing

 14:25:47 <smartboyhw> I'm a bit ? about the visibility

 14:25:52 <smartboyhw> How to improve it?

 14:25:59 <xnox> balloons: what survey? =)

 14:26:18 <balloons> xnox, sorry we should have linked ;-)

 14:26:45 <balloons> http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/08/quality-perceptions-survey.html

 14:29:05 <balloons> xnox, the survey is now over, and I'll be posting the results. It was anonymous, however, if you have thoughts to share, feel free to do so

 14:29:33 <xnox> well wanted to see questions really. oh well. I will wait for the results blog =)

 14:29:52 <balloons> smartboyhw, promoting the team means sharing details on the work and planning events and ways to involve people. this is something everyone can do

 14:29:57 <balloons> xnox, :-)

 14:30:18 <smartboyhw> balloons: Great

 14:30:33 <smartboyhw> balloons: I have been failing to contact phillw about our UEFI testcase

 14:30:46 <smartboyhw> He is busy when I'm not, I'm busy whe he i

 14:30:48 <smartboyhw> *is

 14:31:35 <smartboyhw> ..

 14:32:35 <smartboyhw> Also, balloons, I saw some Mythbuntu testcase missing, wat to do?

 14:32:58 <balloons> smartboyhw, we can discuss outside of the meeting. Are there additional topics to cover?

 14:33:34 <smartboyhw> No, then, so end meeting?

 14:33:58 <balloons> Normally the final item on the agenda is [OTHER TOPICS]

 14:34:17 <smartboyhw> It's now AOB, don't you realize

 14:34:22 <smartboyhw> Any other business

 14:35:08 <balloons> ahh!

 14:35:11 <smartboyhw> So what other business can we discuss?

 14:35:17 <balloons> smartboyhw, I have nothing else

 14:35:42 <smartboyhw> Really, this meeting has too few people

 14:35:46 <leadsled> abiword versions

 14:35:51 <smartboyhw> Hi leadsled

 14:35:55 <smartboyhw> #topic Abiword

 14:36:27 <smartboyhw> leadsled: What things do ya want to say about AbiWord?

 14:37:32 <smartboyhw> leadsled: o/ if you want to say something about AbiWord

 14:37:56 <leadsled> which version will be used before the freeze?

 14:38:11 <smartboyhw> balloons: Your turn, I don't know much about Abiword

 14:39:08 <balloons> I can't speak for the 12.04.1 team, however at this point I believe changing the version would need to be a post-release work

 14:40:11 <ScottK> Nothing new now for 12.04.1 that isn't an absolute show stopper with a clear fix that has very low risk of regression.

 14:40:35 <smartboyhw> Thanks, ScottK

 14:41:30 <smartboyhw> Anyway, we don't know, ask the 12.04.1 team tmr

 14:41:31 <smartboyhw> ..

 14:42:54 <smartboyhw> End meeting now, since it's been discussed.

 14:43:18 <smartboyhw> #endmeeting
 14:01:08 <phillw> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings

 14:01:08 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 22 14:01:08 2012 UTC. The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 14:01:08 <meetingology>

 14:01:08 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

 14:01:38 <phillw> #topic attendance

 14:01:54 <phillw> can those present please asy o/

 14:01:57 <smartboyhw> o/

 14:01:58 <phillw> *say*

 14:02:20 <balloons> o/

 14:03:06 <phillw> #topic previous actions

 14:03:38 <phillw> balloons: have you actioned the one from 2 weeks ago?

 14:03:57 * phillw balloons edit http://qa.ubuntu.com/ to reflect correct time of weekly meeting (phillw, 14:57:28)

 14:05:08 <smartboyhw> phillw: I looked at qa.ubuntu.com, and I think balloons hasn't done it.

 14:05:10 <balloons> phillw, theres an open rt with ops to fix

 14:05:20 <balloons> i cannot do this myself

 14:05:31 <balloons> the reason is someone made it part of the theme

 14:05:32 <phillw> balloons: is this okay to carry over to be chased?

 14:05:41 <balloons> yea.. really :p

 14:05:55 <balloons> yes, carry

 14:06:13 <phillw> #action balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com

 14:06:13 * meetingology balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com

 14:06:43 <phillw> #topic Ubuntu updates

 14:07:05 <phillw> balloons: would be so kind as to give the current state of play?

 14:08:54 <balloons> sure

 14:11:00 <balloons> 12.04.1 for ubuntu testing is fairly complete

 14:11:22 <balloons> there's been a couple bugs targetted for inclusion should a respin need to occur, but that's not happened

 14:12:07 <balloons> on the flavors side, I know there has been some upgrade failure bugs :-)

 14:12:47 <balloons> ..

 14:12:52 <phillw> 12.04.1 is for a later topic, but thanks. how is Quantel going?

 14:13:14 <smartboyhw> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds

 14:14:19 <balloons> ahh :-)

 14:14:37 <balloons> quantal has seen some new testing efforts with unity and compiz this week

 14:15:01 <balloons> that i think is going well, with some folks getting the first pass at llvmpipe and reporting bugs

 14:16:01 <balloons> I clarified my thoughts on cadence testing, and talked a bit about the future. arm daily builds are currently broken in quantal due to the unity3d move

 14:16:42 <balloons> in addition, nvidia driver is broken causing some havoc among the community depending on the driver to run quantal and unity3d

 14:17:03 <balloons> (since unity2d has been dropped)

 14:18:34 <balloons> discussions as to how this was handled will happen later, although, as I mentioned, I would like to see us change how we handle changes like this in the future

 14:19:27 <balloons> we don't have stability outside of milestones..

 14:19:27 <balloons> ..

 14:19:37 <phillw> thanks.

 14:19:40 <smartboyhw> :)

 14:20:08 <phillw> #topic discussion of test cases on iso tracker

 14:20:17 <phillw> I'll start this one...

 14:20:43 <phillw> The moving to 'old' of test cases without 'new' has caused issues

 14:21:12 <smartboyhw> phillw: That's not moving:(

 14:21:17 <phillw> This really does need to looked into.

 14:22:17 <phillw> balloons: smartboyhw maybe we should move to the last sub-topic?

 14:22:33 <balloons> phillw, I'm unsure what your saying here

 14:22:38 <smartboyhw> balloons: I agree

 14:23:33 <phillw> balloons: I went to carry out a test on behalf of a team and was met with a redundant test example, with no updated information available.

 14:23:52 <smartboyhw> phillw: I don't understand now, really

 14:23:54 <balloons> ?

 14:24:03 <balloons> precise sadly is using the old testcases

 14:24:22 <balloons> updating the links would take a bit.. and this is the last time it will be used. I let it go

 14:24:24 <phillw> it simply said that the test case was 'old'

 14:24:49 <phillw> smartboyhw: does help explain it for you?

 14:25:14 <balloons> phillw, I'm confused.. I guess move on and we'll come back

 14:25:14 <smartboyhw> phillw: I'm more confused with your lines 8 lines above.

 14:25:46 <phillw> #topic Updating Wiki

 14:26:45 * njin arrived

 14:26:45 <phillw> balloons: with your permission, I'll put in an action for us both to catch our breath & have a concerted effort once again, to get it more new comer friendly?

 14:27:03 <phillw> welcome njin

 14:27:17 <njin> hallo everybody

 14:27:22 <balloons> phillw, the fight must go on :-0

 14:27:22 <smartboyhw> welcome njin

 14:27:30 <balloons> but i think we are in a good spot

 14:27:47 <balloons> i plan to maybe make a new video

 14:27:50 <smartboyhw> Actually I forgot to add a G+ and FB topic to the agenda...

 14:27:53 <phillw> #action phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki

 14:27:53 * meetingology phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki

 14:28:26 <phillw> smartboyhw: it can be disussed at AOB

 14:28:31 <smartboyhw> OK

 14:29:00 <phillw> I can skip 12.04.1 as we have already had an update.

 14:29:19 <smartboyhw> Wait, I saw Mythbuntu images not tested now

 14:29:36 <phillw> #topic Any Other business, over load of QA team

 14:29:45 <balloons> o/

 14:29:50 <phillw> smartboyhw: it's here

 14:30:06 <phillw> balloons: please take the floor

 14:30:20 <smartboyhw> phillw: ?

 14:30:42 <balloons> I also wanted to mention I ended some testing campaigns this week that had run there course

 14:30:54 <balloons> I'll post some followup feedback and thank yous

 14:31:00 <smartboyhw> OK

 14:31:07 <balloons> ..

 14:32:27 <phillw> balloons: just for discussion, I think QA attempted a 'bridge too far'.

 14:32:36 <smartboyhw> phillw: What bridge?:)

 14:32:55 <phillw> smartboyhw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden

 14:33:10 <smartboyhw> ?

 14:33:42 <smartboyhw> I'm not used to you guys showing Wiki links that I don't understand.

 14:34:34 <smartboyhw> What? balloons left?

 14:34:42 <smartboyhw> Oh, he's back:)

 14:34:45 <balloons> whoa... sorry

 14:35:06 <njin> balloons, your dog pllayng with the power cqable ?

 14:35:12 <balloons> lol..

 14:35:19 <balloons> me hitting ctrl + w

 14:35:19 <smartboyhw> njin: +1, LOL and :P

 14:35:31 <balloons> dog is napping

 14:35:39 <balloons> sorry phillw, ask again

 14:35:47 <phillw> balloons: I think that trying to do re-writes of testing cases, carrying on standard release testing, bringing in cadence testing, testing 12.04.1 was too much for our resources to cope with.

 14:36:01 <smartboyhw> phillw: 12.04.1 will end today

 14:36:09 <phillw> This has resulted in some frustrated testers.

 14:36:23 <smartboyhw> phillw: Who are the frustrated testers, BTW?:(

 14:36:48 <phillw> smartboyhw: I do not need to name people. nor would I ever.

 14:37:09 <smartboyhw> OK, but I thought it isn't too much, just 3 items after today or tmr

 14:38:01 <balloons> phillw, yes, alot has been asked of QA this cycle

 14:38:43 <njin> of course, this is Q cicle

 14:38:47 <phillw> balloons: I fear too much has. The last thing I want is for testers to say 'this is getting silly' and walk away.

 14:39:11 <smartboyhw> phillw: No.

 14:39:14 <phillw> I did promise that I would bring the matter up.

 14:40:03 <balloons> phillw, burnout potential will always be with us, no matter our workload

 14:40:22 <balloons> i would remind everyone to make sure they keep there own workloads sane :-)

 14:40:25 <phillw> balloons: it can be reduced by not asking them to do 3 tasks at one?

 14:40:35 <balloons> it's important to pause.

 14:40:52 <balloons> phillw, perhaps the issue at hand here is people feeling obligated to help on every bit of testing

 14:41:10 <smartboyhw> balloons: That's my case:)

 14:41:14 <phillw> balloons: they are dedicated people, and fell personally that they have failed if they do not 'keep up'. i do ask that this is borne in mind in future.

 14:41:15 <balloons> I would rather them see 3 things going on as an oppurtunity to chose one to invovle themselves

 14:41:40 <smartboyhw> balloons: I want to join all 3...:(

 14:41:44 <balloons> I know.. if I ask for 4 things at once, and one doesn't seemingly get attention...

 14:41:50 <balloons> the people will do it anyway

 14:41:56 <balloons> and I'm very grateful for that

 14:42:15 <balloons> but yes, that leads to burnout.. and I don't want that at all

 14:42:25 <phillw> balloons: indeed it is. we need to address the issue of 'where to concentrate our resources', they are not infinite.

 14:42:47 <balloons> ahh! the issue of what we test and what we work on is more concrete

 14:43:06 <smartboyhw> balloons and phillw: Does that mean we will only let people to select 1 or 2 tests to do?

 14:43:08 <balloons> that we can speak specifically too

 14:43:32 <balloons> smartboyhw, you are always free to test in whatever capacity you wish

 14:43:36 <balloons> as is everyone else..

 14:43:58 <balloons> i do try to space things out and allow for pauses, but it's not always possible

 14:44:16 <balloons> that said,, if there are feelings of frivilous testing going on. let's discuss specifically

 14:44:26 <phillw> balloons: yes, but we do need to rate which is 'please do this one, the others can wait to another day when you have slept and have time'

 14:44:33 <smartboyhw> OK thx balloons

 14:45:01 <smartboyhw> phillw: I think the standard one is better

 14:45:02 <phillw> balloons: if it not made possible, then the release cycle requires looking at.

 14:45:06 <balloons> phillw, I can try and communicate the 'please be kind to yourself!' mantra when I push things out

 14:45:26 <balloons> for instance, the unity testing overlapping 12.04.1

 14:45:53 <balloons> I didn't want it to happen, but it did. however, there are folks who don't iso test, who could go out and mess with it right away

 14:45:53 <phillw> that would be one... cadence overlapping milestones would be another

 14:45:54 <smartboyhw> Actually, 12.04.1 will be ending today, right??? It's 12.04.2 coming. Now I'm confused

 14:46:28 <balloons> if your isotesting 12.04.1... perhaps that's enough, and you can test unity if you wish later

 14:46:45 <njin> ell but I think that this is not the right time to evaluate things, too many works and really few people cause vacations

 14:46:47 <smartboyhw> balloons: I don't have more to test.

 14:46:56 <phillw> I still have no deffinitive answer to the testers. "What is the priority each week?"

 14:47:04 <phillw> maybe that could be done?

 14:47:08 <smartboyhw> phillw: It would be difficult

 14:47:20 <balloons> phillw, sure..

 14:47:29 <smartboyhw> 1st week: Unity 2nd week: Cadence 3rd week: Unity 4th Week: Milestone?

 14:47:39 <balloons> if we are working from deadlines, this week is 12.04.1

 14:48:07 <smartboyhw> Well, today IS the deadline for 12.04.1 testing, am I correct?:)

 14:48:26 <phillw> balloons: indeed, and a major problem in upgrade-manager has been found that will result in a 'no-go'

 14:48:46 * balloons notes they are respinning the alts as we speak

 14:49:11 <smartboyhw> balloons: True

 14:49:15 <smartboyhw> Also Mythbuntu

 14:49:23 <phillw> 10.04.4 --> 12.04 is a massive fail. This should have been caught much earlier, but the testers were running around doing other testing.

 14:49:57 <balloons> phillw, well..

 14:50:17 <balloons> this is a big topic.. I'm not sure opening that can of worms would be productive

 14:50:51 <balloons> let's push forward to what you want to see in the future

 14:50:58 <smartboyhw> I think we should discuss it in #ubuntu-testing instead...

 14:51:04 <phillw> balloons: maybe next time testers are asked to do stuff, maybe explain back that they are as rare as rocking horse droppings? :P

 14:51:15 <smartboyhw> :D

 14:51:21 <balloons> :D

 14:51:22 <balloons> ..

 14:51:25 <smartboyhw> ..

 14:51:28 <njin> yeah, we have to put more attention on lts to lts+1

 14:51:36 <phillw> balloons: that is what I was hoping to do.

 14:51:45 <jibel> phillw, which problem in upgrade-manager are you talking about ?

 14:51:47 <jibel> but number ?

 14:51:50 <jibel> bug

 14:52:34 <njin> I'we only run one test and it was working

 14:53:10 <phillw> jibel: I have the logs from #kubuntu-devel, but that is not for a meeting

 14:54:20 <phillw> can we all migrate to #ubuntu-testing and discuss? this is not strictly a "meeting" topic?

 14:54:21 <jibel> phillw, ok, paste it on #ubuntu-testing, I'd like to know what a "massive fail" is

 14:54:33 <smartboyhw> phillw: I AGREE

 14:54:49 <phillw> please move to #ubuntu-testing

 14:54:55 <phillw> #endmeeting

Meeting started by phillw at 14:01:08 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-14.01.log.html .

Meeting summary

  • attendance
  • previous actions

ACTION: balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com (phillw, 14:06:13)

  • Ubuntu updates

LINK: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds (smartboyhw, 14:13:14)

  • discussion of test cases on iso tracker
  • Updating Wiki

ACTION: phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki (phillw, 14:27:53)

  • Any Other business, over load of QA team

Meeting ended at 14:54:55 UTC.

Votes

Action items

  • balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
  • phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki

Action items, by person

  • balloons
  • * balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
  • * phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki
  • phillw
  • * phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki

People present (lines said)

  • balloons (65)
  • phillw (53)
  • smartboyhw (40)
  • njin (7)
  • meetingology (5)
  • jibel (4)

Full Log

  • 14:01:08 <phillw> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings

    14:01:08 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 22 14:01:08 2012 UTC. The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

    14:01:08 <meetingology>

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    14:01:38 <phillw> #topic attendance

    14:01:54 <phillw> can those present please asy o/

    14:01:57 <smartboyhw> o/

    14:01:58 <phillw> *say*

    14:02:20 <balloons> o/

    14:03:06 <phillw> #topic previous actions

    14:03:38 <phillw> balloons: have you actioned the one from 2 weeks ago?

    14:03:57 * phillw balloons edit http://qa.ubuntu.com/ to reflect correct time of weekly meeting (phillw, 14:57:28)

    14:05:08 <smartboyhw> phillw: I looked at qa.ubuntu.com, and I think balloons hasn't done it.

    14:05:10 <balloons> phillw, theres an open rt with ops to fix

    14:05:20 <balloons> i cannot do this myself

    14:05:31 <balloons> the reason is someone made it part of the theme

    14:05:32 <phillw> balloons: is this okay to carry over to be chased?

    14:05:41 <balloons> yea.. really :p

    14:05:55 <balloons> yes, carry

    14:06:13 <phillw> #action balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com 14:06:13 * meetingology balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com

    14:06:43 <phillw> #topic Ubuntu updates

    14:07:05 <phillw> balloons: would be so kind as to give the current state of play?

    14:08:54 <balloons> sure

    14:11:00 <balloons> 12.04.1 for ubuntu testing is fairly complete

    14:11:22 <balloons> there's been a couple bugs targetted for inclusion should a respin need to occur, but that's not happened

    14:12:07 <balloons> on the flavors side, I know there has been some upgrade failure bugs Smile :-)

    14:12:47 <balloons> ..

    14:12:52 <phillw> 12.04.1 is for a later topic, but thanks. how is Quantel going?

    14:13:14 <smartboyhw> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds

    14:14:19 <balloons> ahh Smile :-)

    14:14:37 <balloons> quantal has seen some new testing efforts with unity and compiz this week

    14:15:01 <balloons> that i think is going well, with some folks getting the first pass at llvmpipe and reporting bugs

    14:16:01 <balloons> I clarified my thoughts on cadence testing, and talked a bit about the future. arm daily builds are currently broken in quantal due to the unity3d move

    14:16:42 <balloons> in addition, nvidia driver is broken causing some havoc among the community depending on the driver to run quantal and unity3d

    14:17:03 <balloons> (since unity2d has been dropped)

    14:18:34 <balloons> discussions as to how this was handled will happen later, although, as I mentioned, I would like to see us change how we handle changes like this in the future

    14:19:27 <balloons> we don't have stability outside of milestones..

    14:19:27 <balloons> ..

    14:19:37 <phillw> thanks.

    14:19:40 <smartboyhw> Smile :)

    14:20:08 <phillw> #topic discussion of test cases on iso tracker

    14:20:17 <phillw> I'll start this one...

    14:20:43 <phillw> The moving to 'old' of test cases without 'new' has caused issues

    14:21:12 <smartboyhw> phillw: That's not moving:(

    14:21:17 <phillw> This really does need to looked into.

    14:22:17 <phillw> balloons: smartboyhw maybe we should move to the last sub-topic?

    14:22:33 <balloons> phillw, I'm unsure what your saying here

    14:22:38 <smartboyhw> balloons: I agree

    14:23:33 <phillw> balloons: I went to carry out a test on behalf of a team and was met with a redundant test example, with no updated information available.

    14:23:52 <smartboyhw> phillw: I don't understand now, really

    14:23:54 <balloons> ?

    14:24:03 <balloons> precise sadly is using the old testcases

    14:24:22 <balloons> updating the links would take a bit.. and this is the last time it will be used. I let it go

    14:24:24 <phillw> it simply said that the test case was 'old'

    14:24:49 <phillw> smartboyhw: does help explain it for you?

    14:25:14 <balloons> phillw, I'm confused.. I guess move on and we'll come back

    14:25:14 <smartboyhw> phillw: I'm more confused with your lines 8 lines above.

    14:25:46 <phillw> #topic Updating Wiki 14:26:45 * njin arrived

    14:26:45 <phillw> balloons: with your permission, I'll put in an action for us both to catch our breath & have a concerted effort once again, to get it more new comer friendly?

    14:27:03 <phillw> welcome njin

    14:27:17 <njin> hallo everybody

    14:27:22 <balloons> phillw, the fight must go on :-0

    14:27:22 <smartboyhw> welcome njin

    14:27:30 <balloons> but i think we are in a good spot

    14:27:47 <balloons> i plan to maybe make a new video

    14:27:50 <smartboyhw> Actually I forgot to add a G+ and FB topic to the agenda...

    14:27:53 <phillw> #action phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki 14:27:53 * meetingology phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki

    14:28:26 <phillw> smartboyhw: it can be disussed at AOB

    14:28:31 <smartboyhw> OK

    14:29:00 <phillw> I can skip 12.04.1 as we have already had an update.

    14:29:19 <smartboyhw> Wait, I saw Mythbuntu images not tested now

    14:29:36 <phillw> #topic Any Other business, over load of QA team

    14:29:45 <balloons> o/

    14:29:50 <phillw> smartboyhw: it's here

    14:30:06 <phillw> balloons: please take the floor

    14:30:20 <smartboyhw> phillw: ?

    14:30:42 <balloons> I also wanted to mention I ended some testing campaigns this week that had run there course

    14:30:54 <balloons> I'll post some followup feedback and thank yous

    14:31:00 <smartboyhw> OK

    14:31:07 <balloons> ..

    14:32:27 <phillw> balloons: just for discussion, I think QA attempted a 'bridge too far'.

    14:32:36 <smartboyhw> phillw: What bridge?:)

    14:32:55 <phillw> smartboyhw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden

    14:33:10 <smartboyhw> ?

    14:33:42 <smartboyhw> I'm not used to you guys showing Wiki links that I don't understand.

    14:34:34 <smartboyhw> What? balloons left?

    14:34:42 <smartboyhw> Oh, he's back:)

    14:34:45 <balloons> whoa... sorry

    14:35:06 <njin> balloons, your dog pllayng with the power cqable ?

    14:35:12 <balloons> lol..

    14:35:19 <balloons> me hitting ctrl + w

    14:35:19 <smartboyhw> njin: +1, LOL and :P

    14:35:31 <balloons> dog is napping

    14:35:39 <balloons> sorry phillw, ask again

    14:35:47 <phillw> balloons: I think that trying to do re-writes of testing cases, carrying on standard release testing, bringing in cadence testing, testing 12.04.1 was too much for our resources to cope with.

    14:36:01 <smartboyhw> phillw: 12.04.1 will end today

    14:36:09 <phillw> This has resulted in some frustrated testers.

    14:36:23 <smartboyhw> phillw: Who are the frustrated testers, BTW?:(

    14:36:48 <phillw> smartboyhw: I do not need to name people. nor would I ever.

    14:37:09 <smartboyhw> OK, but I thought it isn't too much, just 3 items after today or tmr

    14:38:01 <balloons> phillw, yes, alot has been asked of QA this cycle

    14:38:43 <njin> of course, this is Q cicle

    14:38:47 <phillw> balloons: I fear too much has. The last thing I want is for testers to say 'this is getting silly' and walk away.

    14:39:11 <smartboyhw> phillw: No.

    14:39:14 <phillw> I did promise that I would bring the matter up.

    14:40:03 <balloons> phillw, burnout potential will always be with us, no matter our workload

    14:40:22 <balloons> i would remind everyone to make sure they keep there own workloads sane Smile :-)

    14:40:25 <phillw> balloons: it can be reduced by not asking them to do 3 tasks at one?

    14:40:35 <balloons> it's important to pause.

    14:40:52 <balloons> phillw, perhaps the issue at hand here is people feeling obligated to help on every bit of testing

    14:41:10 <smartboyhw> balloons: That's my case:)

    14:41:14 <phillw> balloons: they are dedicated people, and fell personally that they have failed if they do not 'keep up'. i do ask that this is borne in mind in future.

    14:41:15 <balloons> I would rather them see 3 things going on as an oppurtunity to chose one to invovle themselves

    14:41:40 <smartboyhw> balloons: I want to join all 3...:(

    14:41:44 <balloons> I know.. if I ask for 4 things at once, and one doesn't seemingly get attention...

    14:41:50 <balloons> the people will do it anyway

    14:41:56 <balloons> and I'm very grateful for that

    14:42:15 <balloons> but yes, that leads to burnout.. and I don't want that at all

    14:42:25 <phillw> balloons: indeed it is. we need to address the issue of 'where to concentrate our resources', they are not infinite.

    14:42:47 <balloons> ahh! the issue of what we test and what we work on is more concrete

    14:43:06 <smartboyhw> balloons and phillw: Does that mean we will only let people to select 1 or 2 tests to do?

    14:43:08 <balloons> that we can speak specifically too

    14:43:32 <balloons> smartboyhw, you are always free to test in whatever capacity you wish

    14:43:36 <balloons> as is everyone else..

    14:43:58 <balloons> i do try to space things out and allow for pauses, but it's not always possible

    14:44:16 <balloons> that said,, if there are feelings of frivilous testing going on. let's discuss specifically

    14:44:26 <phillw> balloons: yes, but we do need to rate which is 'please do this one, the others can wait to another day when you have slept and have time'

    14:44:33 <smartboyhw> OK thx balloons

    14:45:01 <smartboyhw> phillw: I think the standard one is better

    14:45:02 <phillw> balloons: if it not made possible, then the release cycle requires looking at.

    14:45:06 <balloons> phillw, I can try and communicate the 'please be kind to yourself!' mantra when I push things out

    14:45:26 <balloons> for instance, the unity testing overlapping 12.04.1

    14:45:53 <balloons> I didn't want it to happen, but it did. however, there are folks who don't iso test, who could go out and mess with it right away

    14:45:53 <phillw> that would be one... cadence overlapping milestones would be another

    14:45:54 <smartboyhw> Actually, 12.04.1 will be ending today, right??? It's 12.04.2 coming. Now I'm confused

    14:46:28 <balloons> if your isotesting 12.04.1... perhaps that's enough, and you can test unity if you wish later

    14:46:45 <njin> ell but I think that this is not the right time to evaluate things, too many works and really few people cause vacations

    14:46:47 <smartboyhw> balloons: I don't have more to test.

    14:46:56 <phillw> I still have no deffinitive answer to the testers. "What is the priority each week?"

    14:47:04 <phillw> maybe that could be done?

    14:47:08 <smartboyhw> phillw: It would be difficult

    14:47:20 <balloons> phillw, sure..

    14:47:29 <smartboyhw> 1st week: Unity 2nd week: Cadence 3rd week: Unity 4th Week: Milestone?

    14:47:39 <balloons> if we are working from deadlines, this week is 12.04.1

    14:48:07 <smartboyhw> Well, today IS the deadline for 12.04.1 testing, am I correct?:)

    14:48:26 <phillw> balloons: indeed, and a major problem in upgrade-manager has been found that will result in a 'no-go' 14:48:46 * balloons notes they are respinning the alts as we speak

    14:49:11 <smartboyhw> balloons: True

    14:49:15 <smartboyhw> Also Mythbuntu

    14:49:23 <phillw> 10.04.4 --> 12.04 is a massive fail. This should have been caught much earlier, but the testers were running around doing other testing.

    14:49:57 <balloons> phillw, well..

    14:50:17 <balloons> this is a big topic.. I'm not sure opening that can of worms would be productive

    14:50:51 <balloons> let's push forward to what you want to see in the future

    14:50:58 <smartboyhw> I think we should discuss it in #ubuntu-testing instead...

    14:51:04 <phillw> balloons: maybe next time testers are asked to do stuff, maybe explain back that they are as rare as rocking horse droppings? :P

    14:51:15 <smartboyhw> Big Grin :)

    14:51:21 <balloons> Big Grin :)

    14:51:22 <balloons> ..

    14:51:25 <smartboyhw> ..

    14:51:28 <njin> yeah, we have to put more attention on lts to lts+1

    14:51:36 <phillw> balloons: that is what I was hoping to do.

    14:51:45 <jibel> phillw, which problem in upgrade-manager are you talking about ?

    14:51:47 <jibel> but number ?

    14:51:50 <jibel> bug

    14:52:34 <njin> I'we only run one test and it was working

    14:53:10 <phillw> jibel: I have the logs from #kubuntu-devel, but that is not for a meeting

    14:54:20 <phillw> can we all migrate to #ubuntu-testing and discuss? this is not strictly a "meeting" topic?

    14:54:21 <jibel> phillw, ok, paste it on #ubuntu-testing, I'd like to know what a "massive fail" is

    14:54:33 <smartboyhw> phillw: I AGREE

    14:54:49 <phillw> please move to #ubuntu-testing

    14:54:55 <phillw> #endmeeting

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QATeam/Meetings/QA/20120822 (last edited 2012-08-28 21:02:57 by phillw)