WeeklyMeeting20071003
IRC log (by XChat running in fi_FI locale, hence the timestamps) from the QA team IRC meeting on #ubuntu-meeting on 2007-10-03. Put here since the IRC bot there didn't put one up automatically.
**** LOKIKIRJOITUS ALKAA Wed Oct 3 19:03:23 2007
loka 03 19:03:23 --> You are now talking on #ubuntu-meeting
loka 03 19:03:23 --- Topic for #ubuntu-meeting is Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu QA Team | 05 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team
loka 03 19:03:23 --- Topic for #ubuntu-meeting set by ubotu at Wed Oct 3 07:49:28 2007
loka 03 19:03:49 --- heno_ is now known as heno
loka 03 19:04:08 <liw> I'm here! (now that I realize this place isn't called #ubuntu-meetingS)
loka 03 19:04:20 <heno> ah, sorry :)
loka 03 19:04:27 <liw> nah, my very own mistake
loka 03 19:04:54 <heno> welcome all to the first Ubuntu QA IRC meeting
loka 03 19:05:04 <bdmurray> \o/
loka 03 19:05:06 <heno> (at least I think so)
loka 03 19:05:07 <pedro_> yay!
loka 03 19:05:24 <heno> We have an agenda here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
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loka 03 19:06:33 <heno> the QA devel sprint was very productive IMO: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings/OsloSprint
loka 03 19:07:00 <heno> lots to do for the Hardy cycle and to discuss at UDS
loka 03 19:07:56 <heno> bdmurray: has sent me some ideas for UDS topics. more input is welcome
loka 03 19:08:11 <heno> (though that's next topic)
loka 03 19:10:23 <liw> I obviously agree that it was a productive meeting (since I was there), and I don't really have anything to add right now that isn't on the OsloSprint page
loka 03 19:10:25 <heno> any questions/comments on the sprint topics?
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loka 03 19:10:39 <pedro_> yep, can be add the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Stats to be discussed there also?
loka 03 19:11:25 <heno> ok, so Action: heno to distill UDS discussion topics from the sprint notes and propose them for scheduling
loka 03 19:12:16 <liw> pedro_, I think that looks like a perfect thing to include in the "Bug statistics" topic at UDS
loka 03 19:12:35 <heno> agreed
loka 03 19:12:38 <pedro_> liw, ok great
loka 03 19:12:47 <stgraber> About the bug stats part, do we still agree that moving them inside the QA-Website/Tracker would be the way to go to avoid having them hosted on people.u.c, then fetched by qa.ubuntu.com and then shown (as we have python cron scripts for qa.stgraber.org anyway) ?
loka 03 19:13:38 <bdmurray> Part of the reason reports are run on p.u.c is the queries run much faster there
loka 03 19:13:43 <heno> stgraber: I think you, bdmurray and others should discuss this in detail at UDS
loka 03 19:14:15 <heno> bdmurray: but we'll move the qa tracker to the DC *real soon now*
loka 03 19:14:21 <stgraber> bdmurray: hmm, should be the same once we have qa.stgraber.org moved to qa.ubuntu.com and inside Canonical DC no ?
loka 03 19:14:31 <heno> the plan is this week
loka 03 19:14:51 <bdmurray> Ah, I did not know this. So many loops to stay in.
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loka 03 19:15:43 <heno> hi davmor2!
loka 03 19:15:46 <bdmurray> Well, that'd be cool.
loka 03 19:15:49 <stgraber> davmor2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
loka 03 19:15:50 <davmor2> Hi
loka 03 19:16:04 <heno> sorry, this first meeting has been poorly announced
loka 03 19:16:19 <zul> oh helllo
loka 03 19:16:28 <heno> davmor2: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
loka 03 19:16:51 <davmor2> :)
loka 03 19:18:02 <davmor2> where we up to?
loka 03 19:18:40 <heno> wrapping up point two;
loka 03 19:19:08 <heno> if anyone has suggestions for UDS topics, please email them to me by tomorrow
loka 03 19:19:57 <stgraber> heno: IIRC I started a spec about the Tracker a while ago and even proposed it for Boston, maybe you'd like to have a look at it to update or delete it (if too much out of date)
loka 03 19:20:00 <heno> (there will also be the opportunity to suggest topics at UDS but these are not guaranteed a slot)
loka 03 19:20:47 <heno> stgraber: will do, I'm sure it can be adjusted to suit where we are at now
loka 03 19:21:13 <davmor2> will the topics selected be made available any where?
loka 03 19:22:43 <heno> davmor2: Matt, Colin and Scott will have a manual scheduling session on monday in London and will post the results of that
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loka 03 19:23:07 <davmor2> okay cool
loka 03 19:23:16 <heno> (using sticky notes and lots of floor space I suspect)
loka 03 19:23:47 <heno> Topic #3 RC bugs
loka 03 19:23:52 <heno> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10-rc
loka 03 19:23:57 <heno> is the link
loka 03 19:24:32 <bdmurray> I hate the format of that list
loka 03 19:24:49 <heno> the release team is on top of this I believe, but we may/should have some input
loka 03 19:24:54 <heno> yeah
loka 03 19:25:18 <heno> bdmurray: anything come up in your study of iso-testing bugs?
loka 03 19:25:49 <bdmurray> No, nothing new other than that printing bug that Till is on top of
loka 03 19:26:38 <heno> Ok, I'll start working through the list as well as one of my next items
loka 03 19:27:02 <heno> we should look at the completely untriaged bugs there especially
loka 03 19:27:09 <bdmurray> I believe the kernel freeze is tomorrow so I'll be focusing on those
loka 03 19:27:16 <heno> some have no priority setting
loka 03 19:27:18 --- ian_brasil is now known as ian_brasil_lunch
loka 03 19:27:20 <heno> ok, cool
loka 03 19:28:43 <heno> should we try to test for recently fixed bugs during next weeks ISO testing?
loka 03 19:29:13 <heno> what's an easy way to produce a list of the previously milestoned, now fixed bugs?
loka 03 19:29:48 <bdmurray> Yeah, that is what I was trying to say in one of my e-mails.
loka 03 19:29:53 <heno> the list may quickly become too long for manual testing
loka 03 19:30:10 <bdmurray> Or similar to what I was mentioning, I'll see if I can whip a query
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loka 03 19:30:27 <bdmurray> whip up even
loka 03 19:31:43 <davmor2> one way maybe to have the manual testers select bugs in a similar fashion as the y do iso's
loka 03 19:32:02 <heno> I guess these things should be folded into the test cases, but we don't really want to change those at every milestone either
loka 03 19:32:48 <bdmurray> Maybe test cases for specific bug numbers?
loka 03 19:32:51 <heno> could we pick out top 10 such bugs perhaps?
loka 03 19:33:03 <bdmurray> That can be added and removed to the general cases
loka 03 19:33:41 <heno> you shouldn't need to confirm that it's fixed on every single ISO though
loka 03 19:33:55 <heno> like your LiveCD hibernate example
loka 03 19:34:06 <heno> testing it on one should be enough
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loka 03 19:34:25 <bdmurray> True
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loka 03 19:35:06 <heno> we could make it a separate 'test case'
loka 03 19:35:27 <heno> or a wiki page with a table to check off
loka 03 19:35:37 <heno> (going low-tech again)
loka 03 19:35:46 <davmor2> could the list not become interactive? ie the ability to tick box for pass fail?
loka 03 19:36:30 <heno> I agree, though it's probably too late for Gutsy for that
loka 03 19:37:10 <heno> I suggest we add this to a Hardy spec, and perhaps make an informal effort for Gutsy
loka 03 19:37:48 <davmor2> heno if that is the case then could we not use the irc channel for it?
loka 03 19:38:01 <heno> bdmurray, pedro_: can you propose a few bug #s we should verify?
loka 03 19:38:22 <pedro_> heno, sure will do it
loka 03 19:38:35 <heno> davmor2: combined with a list somewhere, sure
loka 03 19:38:38 <bdmurray> sure, where shall we put them? in the Testing name space?
loka 03 19:39:30 <heno> Testing/FixesToVerify ?
loka 03 19:40:28 <davmor2> heno: where ever it is make sure it is announced other wise it won't get used
loka 03 19:41:19 <bdmurray> heno: That works for me
loka 03 19:41:31 <heno> good point. let's add a few items and then ask the distro team to contribute more
loka 03 19:41:44 <pedro_> ok
loka 03 19:42:03 <heno> Topic #4: QA team wiki pages
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loka 03 19:43:04 <heno> there is some name space confusion between the ubuntu-qa LP team and the more general bugsquad+testing = QA team
loka 03 19:43:13 <heno> is that a problem?
loka 03 19:43:22 <liw> as a newbie I'll testify that I'm confused :)
loka 03 19:43:37 * stgraber is back on-line, was having dinner
loka 03 19:43:47 <davmor2> what's the difference between ubuntu-qa and qa team?
loka 03 19:44:29 <heno> ubuntu-qa is a restricted Launchpad team, bugsquad with some extra powers
loka 03 19:44:41 <heno> mainly setting the priority of bugs
loka 03 19:45:13 <heno> but at the same time we want to build and active team around general QA in Ubuntu
loka 03 19:45:25 <heno> and the name sort of gives itself
loka 03 19:45:47 <bdmurray> Right, just because you can not set the priority does not mean you are not part of the QA effort
loka 03 19:45:50 <heno> should ubuntu-qa be changed to bugsquad++ ? :)
loka 03 19:46:20 <davmor2> it may be better for the lp team to lose the qa title then as it has no really reference to QA as it will undoubtedly be a smaller team than testing+bug squuad
loka 03 19:46:31 <heno> or should testing and other QA work be a natural way to apply for the ubuntu-qa LP team?
loka 03 19:47:27 <bdmurray> I'd agree that the ubuntu qa team could use a renaming to avoid confusion but I don't have a good idea of to what
loka 03 19:47:40 <heno> how diruptive is changing the name of that well-established LP team though?
loka 03 19:48:20 <davmor2> heno how big is the team?
loka 03 19:48:30 <liw> I'd assume it'd be less disruptive than continually having to explain things, since it's a one-time change
loka 03 19:48:42 <heno> hm, yeah
loka 03 19:48:54 <heno> davmor2: 50-60?
loka 03 19:48:56 <bdmurray> I think there is a lot of documentation that talks about the QA name though
loka 03 19:49:14 <liw> bdmurray, true, but it should mostly be in the wiki and searchable, surely?
loka 03 19:49:14 <heno> but it also has core-dev and motu as indirect members
loka 03 19:49:18 <davmor2> heno how big is testing + bug squad?
loka 03 19:49:25 <heno> not sure if that causes a problem
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loka 03 19:50:03 <bdmurray> liw: right for the most part. I think kiko's recent bug status write-up mentioned the QA name specifically though
loka 03 19:50:11 <heno> bugsquad is 837 :)
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loka 03 19:50:54 <bdmurray> I still think it is a good idea though
loka 03 19:51:30 <heno> we probably need to raise this for discussion on the bugsquad and devel-discuss lists
loka 03 19:51:49 <davmor2> how are you going to umbrella the qa team? If it will be QA testing QA bug squad then could the lp team not just be added to the bug squad side of things?
loka 03 19:53:09 <davmor2> That wat everything would fall under the QATeam umbrella
loka 03 19:53:15 <heno> the current ubuntu-qa LP team is restricted with good reason
loka 03 19:53:29 <heno> so that would need to be maintained
loka 03 19:53:45 <heno> however we do it
loka 03 19:53:46 <davmor2> but it would still remain restricted
loka 03 19:54:28 <heno> currently we don't have an Ubuntu QA Team LP team
loka 03 19:54:41 <heno> we may not need one either
loka 03 19:55:41 <heno> anyway let's leave the wiki pages as they are for now and raise this on the lists
loka 03 19:56:04 <heno> I'm sure many people will want to have a say in this :)
loka 03 19:56:19 <bdmurray> I think we should have a suggestion for an alternative name before opening the discussion
loka 03 19:56:32 <bdmurray> The name for the team that sets bug priority
loka 03 19:56:39 <heno> that would help, I agree
loka 03 19:56:50 <davmor2> I'm with bdmurray
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loka 03 19:57:33 <heno> ubuntu-triage, ubuntu-bugexperts ...
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loka 03 19:57:37 <liw> BugSetters? BugPriors?
loka 03 19:57:50 <davmor2> ubuntu-bugcontrol
loka 03 19:58:00 <bdmurray> Setting the priority almost seems like project management
loka 03 19:58:24 <liw> ubuntu-bugcontrol sounds good to me, actually
loka 03 19:59:01 <davmor2> heno not triage it would clash with bug squad I think
loka 03 20:00:11 <heno> what is similar but higher level than 'squad', troop, legion ... ?
loka 03 20:00:14 <pedro_> ubuntu-bugpriory is cool but probably not good
loka 03 20:00:25 <pedro_> like the priory of sion
loka 03 20:00:33 <davmor2> battalion
loka 03 20:00:35 <liw> general? captain?
loka 03 20:00:46 <bdmurray> come on now
loka 03 20:00:56 <heno> buglords (like time lords)
loka 03 20:01:05 <liw> ubuntu-bugtweakers?
loka 03 20:01:09 <bdmurray> A squad is group of troops, a smaller group than a squad would be a fireteam
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loka 03 20:01:24 <bdmurray> A larger group would be a platoon
loka 03 20:01:39 <davmor2> army :D
loka 03 20:01:43 <heno> that's getting to martial though
loka 03 20:01:53 <pedro_> bdmurray: haha that sounds funny is spanish :-P
loka 03 20:02:00 <heno> but it *is* smaller
loka 03 20:02:13 <bdmurray> fuego what?
loka 03 20:02:16 <liw> we might want to avoid giving it a "glamorous" name, lest people get jealous and want to join just for the name
loka 03 20:02:27 <pedro_> bdmurray, the platoon
loka 03 20:05:11 <liw> the suggestions have dried up
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loka 03 20:07:16 <heno> shall we start with an email to the bugsquad list?
loka 03 20:07:28 <davmor2> indeed :)
loka 03 20:07:32 <pedro_> yes please
loka 03 20:07:43 <liw> that sounds good to me, but I am new and confused
loka 03 20:07:58 <heno> volunteers to write that?
loka 03 20:08:34 <heno> I think I have nearly every other action item so far :)
loka 03 20:09:03 <liw> it's unsporting of me, but since I'm confused about what's what, I'd like to dodge this one
loka 03 20:09:27 <heno> pedro_: ?
loka 03 20:09:32 <pedro_> i'll do it
loka 03 20:10:08 <heno> thanks!
loka 03 20:10:17 <heno> Topic #5: Agree upon a method for communicating high profile or well known bug reports amongst each other. It should be something that developers can add bug reports that they are working on too.
loka 03 20:10:50 <heno> bdmurray: would a tag work for this?
loka 03 20:10:53 <bdmurray> I brought that up because I spent a fair bit of time tracking down a printing issue I had only to discover that it was bug that was _known_
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loka 03 20:11:00 <bdmurray> and being worked on
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loka 03 20:11:12 <heno> perhaps combine it with a bughelper query placed on some page
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loka 03 20:11:54 <heno> just know as a bug or known as a very common issue?
loka 03 20:11:57 <bdmurray> I think it will overlap with the milestoned bugs list a fair bit
loka 03 20:12:11 <heno> affecting lots of printers or just one model?
loka 03 20:12:26 <bdmurray> I think all hps
loka 03 20:13:09 <heno> it should have a lower threshold and be less time-related than milestones though
loka 03 20:13:15 <davmor2> I think that the bugsquad tagging is useful
loka 03 20:13:23 <heno> would tags be abused eventually?
loka 03 20:13:46 <davmor2> Why?
loka 03 20:14:00 <heno> if it gets known as the tag to use to get your bug looked at
loka 03 20:14:23 <davmor2> heno: how is the tag added then?
loka 03 20:14:35 <stgraber> is there a way to know who set a tag ?
loka 03 20:14:41 <heno> anyone can add one
loka 03 20:14:49 <heno> not sure
loka 03 20:14:50 <bdmurray> I don't like that tagging idea as it requires people to do work
loka 03 20:15:05 <bdmurray> Reading e-mail seems like less work than searching launchpad
loka 03 20:15:30 <bdmurray> So mailing the bugsquad - "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" seems the most useful to me
loka 03 20:15:30 <ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
loka 03 20:15:36 <heno> right but tagging seems a good way to ID them
loka 03 20:15:57 <bdmurray> Then bugsquad readers, or us, could tag and add them to a wiki page
loka 03 20:16:36 <heno> we could then set up a bughelper script to send a digest of all bugs where that tag was added this week
loka 03 20:17:21 <bdmurray> Then once those bugs were fixed they might move to the ISO test watching bugs
loka 03 20:17:36 <heno> bdmurray: who would send those emails, developers?
loka 03 20:19:02 <bdmurray> I'm not following regarding who
loka 03 20:19:55 <heno> the "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" emails would be sent by developers working on a fix?
loka 03 20:19:56 <ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
loka 03 20:20:13 <heno> is that what you mean by _known_ basically?
loka 03 20:20:51 <bdmurray> What I mean by known is one that has already been reported and is large enough in scope that multiple people will encounter it
loka 03 20:21:05 <heno> perhaps a bot should listen for bugs being discussed in #ubuntu-devel
loka 03 20:21:40 <heno> bdmurray: but isn't that potentially a very large number?
loka 03 20:21:53 <heno> (of bugs)
loka 03 20:22:10 <bdmurray> Perhaps
loka 03 20:22:52 <heno> what about suggestion devs use 'In progress' for this?
loka 03 20:23:43 <pedro_> already sent the mail to the bugsquad list [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2007-October/000636.html]
loka 03 20:24:08 <heno> bdmurray: you you think that setting a tag is more work than sending the email?
loka 03 20:24:23 <heno> with tags, we could collect the bugs in a digest
loka 03 20:24:29 <bdmurray> No, I think finding tagged bugs is more work
loka 03 20:24:49 <heno> be we can improve that for a specific tag
loka 03 20:25:07 <heno> with a web page and/or email digest generated
loka 03 20:25:17 <heno> *but we can
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loka 03 20:26:08 <bdmurray> Added the tag is probably the least amount of work so maybe we should start off with that and see what we have
loka 03 20:26:14 <bdmurray> s/Added/Adding
loka 03 20:26:57 <heno> ok, sounds good
loka 03 20:27:14 <heno> suggestions for a tag name?
loka 03 20:28:32 <heno> none yet, ok
loka 03 20:28:36 <bdmurray> I wonder if the existing meta-bug tag includes what we are atlking about
loka 03 20:29:02 <heno> meta-bug tag?
loka 03 20:29:27 <bdmurray> Well, it is metabug
loka 03 20:29:40 <bdmurray> Currently used for bugs with a high probability of duplicates
loka 03 20:30:15 <heno> oic
loka 03 20:30:20 [Topic] - 03 Oct 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu QA Team |
loka 03 20:30:20 [Topic] + | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
loka 03 20:30:20 --- ubotu has changed the topic to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
loka 03 20:31:03 <heno> right lrt's look at what's in there already, and perhaps promote its use more
loka 03 20:31:28 <heno> let's wrap up this meeting now though, we've been 1.5 hrs
loka 03 20:32:28 <heno> thanks everyone for attending!
loka 03 20:32:36 <liw> bye
loka 03 20:32:40 <stgraber> heno: do you have some example feature to add to QA-Poll (once it'll be cleared for public release) ?
loka 03 20:32:45 <pedro_> ok, cool, thanks!
loka 03 20:32:58 --- Disconnected ().
**** LOKIKIRJOITUS LOPPUU Wed Oct 3 20:32:58 2007QATeam/Meetings/WeeklyMeeting20071003 (last edited 2008-08-06 16:36:57 by localhost)