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== Agenda ==

 * '''Keeping track of UTC tasks''' (adiroiban)
  * we have wikipages, blueprints, bugreport
  * David is doing all the hard work and I think we should keep track using his way
  * just need to know where we can help
 * '''Review of translations installation test cases''' (dpm)
  * [[https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2010-January/003180.html|Original thread]]
  * [[http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/NonEnglishLanguage|Test cases]]
 * '''Announcement of upcoming Hardy.4 service release''' (arnegoetje)
  * new langpacks for Hardy due this week or early next week, need testing!
 * [POSTPONED] '''Where to store FAQs''' (adiroiban)
  * wiki or Launchpad Answers
 * [POSTPONED] '''Can we use the terminology PO file to help Ubuntu Translation teams?''' (adiroiban)
  * https://translations.launchpad.net/translation-standards/launchpad-terminology/+translations

== Attendees ==
 * AdiRoiban
 * DavidPlanella
 * AronXu
 * Arne Goetje
 * EleanorC

== Summary ==

=== Agenda item 1 ===

=== Agenda item 2 ===

...

== Log ==

{{{
[16:00] <MMX-Dimitrov> Hi to all! Привет всем!
[16:01] <dpm> hi everyone, welcome to the translations team meeting
[16:01] <dpm> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is dpm.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01] <dpm> Let's see who's there
[16:01] <ianto> Present
[16:01] <happyaron> hi
[16:01] <morphias> hi
[16:01] <EleanorC> hi
[16:01] <MMX-Dimitrov> рш
[16:01] <MMX-Dimitrov> hi
[16:01] <umi> hi all
[16:02] <ArneGoetje> hi
[16:02] <Moshie> Observing*
[16:02] <dpm> wow, we've got quite a turn up today, welcome all!
=== MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the Translations Team Meeting | The meeting began at 4:00PM GMT | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
[16:02] <kelemengabor> hi
[16:03] <adiroiban> hi all
[16:03] <dpm> hi kelemengabor, hi adiroiban
[16:03] <dpm> shall we start, then?
[16:03] <morphias> sure
[16:04] <morphias> unless you want to wait for the last minute ppl
[16:04] <MichealH> We have already Started
[16:04] <MichealH> This is the Ubuntu Documentation Team Meeting Specific for Translations
[16:05] <dpm> [TOPIC] Keeping track of UTC tasks
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Keeping track of UTC tasks
[16:05] <dpm> adiroiban, I think you added this one, can you tell a few words on that one?
[16:06] <adiroiban> it's about the new usage of blueprints
[16:06] <adiroiban> and the old bugs taged as "task"
=== MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the Translations Team Meeting the meeting is about keeping track of UTC Tasks| Support Avalible on #ubuntu | The meeting began at 4:00PM GMT | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
[16:07] <adiroiban> since we have some nice graphs for blueprints
[16:07] <adiroiban> I think we should use them
[16:07] <adiroiban> but in the same time, bugs marked as "task" seems more flexible
[16:08] <dpm> right, so we've got 1. http://piware.de/workitems/community/lucid/report.html
[16:08] <dpm> and 2. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bugs?field.tag=tasks
[16:09] <dpm> I'm still not too sure of using bugs as a means of tracking tasks
[16:09] <dpm> on the other hand, http://piware.de/workitems/community/lucid/report.html are the high priority items, or what we've committed to for Lucid
[16:10] <dpm> and I'd like to focus on those and keep what might not be as important separated
[16:10] <MichealH> dpm: Using Bugs is simple because the simplest Task may be a spelling Correction so that is classed as a bug /problem /issue.
[16:10] <MichealH> Welcome skydrome
[16:11] <adiroiban> well, this was more about Ubuntu Translation tasks...like „documenting translations”
[16:11] <dpm> MichealH, we are talking of tasks which require some time to complete, not actual bugs
[16:11] <adiroiban> or „rename ubuntu docs templates”
[16:12] <dpm> adiroiban, I think I'd prefer keep using the wiki or blueprints for that, perhaps we could have a separate set for translations tasks
[16:14] <adiroiban> dpm: ok.
[16:14] <dpm> in any case, most of the stuff on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Events/UDS/Lucid is already in http://piware.de/workitems/community/lucid/report.html, so I should just clean it up and leave only the stuff that's not tracked in blueprints
[16:15] <adiroiban> dpm: ok. then I will see how we can move the current bugs to wiki or blueprints
[16:15] <adiroiban> we can continue with the next topic
[16:15] <dpm> what I like about blueprints or the wiki is that we can break things down in smaller actions and tick them as done
[16:15] <dpm> ok
[16:16] <MichealH> If you would like to get involved in the community goto http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[16:16] <dpm> [TOPIC] Review of translations installation test cases
[16:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review of translations installation test cases
[16:17] <dpm> This is simply about what we talked about at UDS about improving the QA of translations, starting with the installation
=== MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the Translations Team Meeting the meeting is about: Review of translations installation test cases Topic Creator: dpm| Support Avalible on #ubuntu| The meeting began at 4:00PM GMT | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
[16:18] <dpm> We've got a series of test cases defined, and it would be good that we review them
[16:18] <dpm> or propose new ones
[16:18] <dpm> Here's some background -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2010-January/003180.html
[16:18] <dpm> And here are the test cases
[16:18] <dpm> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/NonEnglishLanguage
[16:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/NonEnglishLanguage
[16:19] <dpm> First of all, are there any questions related to these test cases?
[16:19] <happyaron> I think testcase about input method is so loose
[16:19] <adiroiban> agree
[16:19] <EleanorC> yes
[16:19] <dpm> happyaron, yes, I agree, that's why I was asking if someone who usually uses them could review and expand them
[16:19] <adiroiban> we should add some info about how to add special character
[16:19] <adiroiban> like enable ibus
[16:19] <adiroiban> Ctrl+Space
[16:20] <dpm> happyaron, EleanorC, do you think you could do that?
[16:20] <adiroiban> and press a + b + c + d
[16:20] <EleanorC> I am working on the CJK
[16:20] <dpm> (or would anyone else volunteer?)
[16:20] <adiroiban> and a screenshot with how the tools will pop up
[16:20] <MichealH> If you would like to agree say "[AGREE]"
[16:20] <adiroiban> and the character is inserted
[16:20] <happyaron> dpm: sure, EleanorC is working on it
[16:20] <dpm> great
[16:21] <MichealH> If you have a Idea write "[IDEA]"
[16:21] <happyaron> dpm: but we can only cover maybe Chinese(CN/TW)
[16:21] <happyaron> but not sure for ja/ko and others
[16:21] <EleanorC> I may find one girl in my class to deal with korea
[16:21] <kelemengabor> dpm: how can I determine, going trough these tests, that the problem affects only my language (something is translatable, just not translated yet), or all (so there is a real problem)?
[16:21] <happyaron> EleanorC: good
[16:21] <EleanorC> and another to try japanese
[16:22] <dpm> happyaron, that's fine, that will be the start. I think others might be able to take the C/K examples as basis
[16:22] <dpm> or we can make the test case more generic
[16:22] <dpm> which is admittedly how it should be
[16:22] <ArneGoetje> just a note: in the Live CD, CJK inputmethods are not installed, because of space restrictions. They need to be downloaded and installed in the live session first.
[16:22] <happyaron> dpm: well, EleanorC is in a language school, she said she could find somebody for ja and ko
[16:22] <happyaron> ArneGoetje: nope
[16:23] <happyaron> ArneGoetje: ibus-m17n provide some basic usage
[16:23]  * happyaron though not enough
[16:23] <ArneGoetje> happyaron: yes, I know, but there are bugs filed that it is broken in some cases... so, I wouldn't recommend to use them until it is fixed
[16:24] <dpm> ArneGoetje, so you'd recommend to install them first? Just for CJK or for other languages requiring IM as well?
[16:24] <happyaron> dpm: in fact, ibus-m17n cannot cover the usage of Chinese input
[16:25] <ArneGoetje> happyaron: the IMEs most users would like to use for CJK, need to be installed separately... they are ibus-anthy (ja), ibus-hangul (ko), ibus-pinyin (zh-hans) and ibus-chewing (zh-hant)
[16:25] <MichealH> [IDEA]In the Live CD, CJK inputmethods are not installed, because of space restrictions. They need to be downloaded and installed in the live session first.
[16:25] <MootBot> IDEA received: In the Live CD, CJK inputmethods are not installed, because of space restrictions. They need to be downloaded and installed in the live session first.
[16:25] <happyaron> ArneGoetje: sure I know, :)
[16:25] <MichealH> Say [AGREE] If you agree
[16:26] <ArneGoetje> dpm: just for CJK and maybe Vietnamese
[16:26] <dpm> ok, thanks ArneGoetje
[16:26] <MMX-Dimitrov> but not everyone can access to internet imediately
[16:26] <ArneGoetje> MichealH: why do you use idea? I stated the current situation.
[16:27] <morphias> im with MMX-Dimitrov
[16:27] <MichealH> because you can write [IDEA] to write an idea
[16:28] <EleanorC> yes， internet access isn't always easy to get in live session
[16:28] <ArneGoetje> MichealH: ... I didn't propose anything as an idea. I explained the current situation in response to the entry on the testcase page
[16:28] <dpm> MMX-Dimitrov, that's true, but due to the space restrictions this has not an easy solution. We should make clear that this particular test case requires an Internet connection
[16:29] <Lint01> couldn't we just drop something from LiveCD so we haven't to cripple the system?
[16:29]  * ebouza Hello everyone, I am new to the Ubuntu family and it is my first time attending this meeting
[16:29] <happyaron> dpm: in fact Live session users always don't have the chance to access internet
[16:30] <happyaron> dpm: for mostu sers in China, I meant
[16:30] <ArneGoetje> Lint01: we have a project under way to reduce the size of the Chinese IM modules, so they might fit on the LiveCD later. But that takes time and won't be finished for lucid.
[16:30] <dpm> Lint01, it is always difficult to balance what can be included in the CD
[16:30] <MMX-Dimitrov> maybe its time to migrate to LiveDVD&
[16:30] <MMX-Dimitrov> maybe its time to migrate to LiveDVD?
[16:30] <MichealH> Welcome ebouza! Welcome to the meeting If you have a Idea write "[IDEA]" If you would like to agree say "[AGREE]"
[16:30] <dpm> MMX-Dimitrov, there is already a LiveDVD
[16:30] <dpm> anyway, I think we should get back on topic
[16:31] <ebouza> MichaelH: Thank you
[16:31] <dpm> We've agreed that the IM test case needs to be expanded
[16:31] <happyaron> yes
[16:31] <EleanorC> sure
[16:31] <dpm> and EleanorC is willing to work on that
[16:32] <dpm> ArneGoetje, do you know which other languages requiring IM support we could target additionally for that test case?
[16:32] <MichealH> MMX-Dimitrov : Please use the OffTopic Channel for that @ #Ubuntu-offtopic
[16:32] <ArneGoetje> dpm: VN and all languages in India
[16:32] <ebouza> Are you testing in Spanish?
[16:33] <ArneGoetje> dpm: and languages which derieved from that
[16:33] <happyaron> ebouza: does Spanish need an input method?
[16:33] <MMX-Dimitrov> MichealH : ok
[16:33] <dpm> ebouza, you can test in any language, but the particular test case we are discussing is for languages with special requirements on inputting characters
[16:33] <EleanorC> happyaron: sure, spanish needs
[16:34] <happyaron> EleanorC: ok
[16:34] <ebouza> happyaron:  Yes it would
[16:34] <dpm> Spanish does not need an input method
[16:34]  * happyaron well, who is right?
[16:34] <morphias> ebouza, we are talking about characters not usually in the ASCII lookup
[16:34] <ArneGoetje> morphias: no, we are not.
[16:35] <ArneGoetje> morphias: for european languages we only need XKB keyboard layouts
[16:35] <ebouza> Well wouldn't Spanish fall under that category for it's special characters?
[16:35] <morphias> ah, thanks for the correction
[16:35] <ArneGoetje> morphias: input methods are used for more complex languages which have too many possibilities to fit onto a single keyboard layout
[16:36] <dpm> ebouza, no, you can type the characters as they appear in the keyboard's layout
[16:36] <happyaron> ah
[16:36] <ebouza> Got you, Ok I understand
[16:36] <morphias> understand
[16:36] <dpm> ok, great :)
[16:36] <MichealH> Next Topic?
[16:37] <dpm> anyway, so is everyone happy with the current set of installation test cases for translations at http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/NonEnglishLanguage?
[16:37] <dpm> Would someone like to propose another one?
[16:37] <dpm> or to modify one of the existing ones?
[16:37] <morphias> its a good step forward, i dont have nothing.
[16:38] <happyaron> dpm: I think we need to check the installer
[16:38] <Lint01> what version we are testing?
[16:38] <dpm> Lint01, this is going to be for Lucid
[16:38] <dpm> happyaron, in which way you'd like to check the installer?
[16:38] <happyaron> dpm: translations of installer
[16:38] <MichealH> [TOPIC] Langages/ Translations on the Installer/LiveCD
[16:38] <kelemengabor> dpm: I think "the system has to be fully localized." is a bit too generic
[16:39] <happyaron> you know we are missing several languages of the slides in Karmic final LiveCD
[16:39] <kelemengabor> perhaps it should say only the installer itself should be fully localized
=== MichealH changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome to the Translations Team Meeting the meeting is about: Langages/ Translations on the Installer/LiveCD Topic Creator: dpm| Support Avalible on #ubuntu| The meeting began at 4:00PM GMT | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
[16:40] <EleanorC> yes, so a check may be better
[16:40] <dpm> MichealH, please do not change the topic - topics are listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2010-01-07
[16:40] <happyaron> kelemengabor: and it should be verified
[16:41] <happyaron> bug 476269
[16:41] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 476269 in ubuntu-translations "Chinese, Brazilian Portuguese, and English variant translations aren't shown during Karmic installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476269
[16:41] <happyaron> this could cause very bad impression
[16:41] <EleanorC> yes, and this caused some trouble
[16:41] <dpm> happyaron, kelemengabor looking at the first test case, then perhaps we could add an additional point mentioning to check that the installer is also translated
[16:42] <happyaron> dpm: agree
[16:42] <kelemengabor> dpm: wait, isn't this test case only about the installer?
[16:43] <dpm> kelemengabor, the first one refers to the installation of the system, and to check that the system is localized after installation
[16:44] <dpm> it doesn't explicitly mention to check the installer itself, which I think is what we should add
[16:44] <kelemengabor> oh, I see...
[16:44] <MichealH> I am sure there are some Languages missing in the Installer but there are problems in eh Alpha1 installer of Lucid anyway.
[16:44] <kelemengabor> so this is basically about "check that language packs are installed and used"
[16:45] <dpm> yes
[16:45] <kelemengabor> perhaps this could be added too
[16:45] <kelemengabor> so that no one starts complaining about missing strings of applications
[16:45] <dpm> yes, that's a good point
[16:45] <Lint01> "For any language, the system has to be fully localized. /!\ Note: the translation coverage of some languages might not be complete
[16:46] <Lint01> that's an oxymoron
[16:46] <dpm> Lint01, perhaps. Feel free to rephrase it :-)
[16:47] <kelemengabor> dpm: so, we could add a "Goal of this test case" field to all of the cases?
[16:47] <happyaron> dpm: and should we pay some attention to bug 441986?
[16:47] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 441986 in ubuntu-translations "Live CD "Examples" desktop item translations depended on having the PO files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441986
[16:47] <kelemengabor> I think this could help us to see what kind of errors are we looking for
[16:47] <MichealH> [IDEA]Check the Installer for any missing Installer Languages and then Get Involved with the LoCo/Translation Team and/or Development Team
[16:47] <MootBot> IDEA received: Check the Installer for any missing Installer Languages and then Get Involved with the LoCo/Translation Team and/or Development Team
[16:48] <dpm> kelemengabor, that's a good point, I'll check it out with the QA team, because the test cases might have a defined syntax
[16:48] <MichealH> Anyone agree?
[16:49] <morphias> [AGREE]
[16:49] <dpm> ok, thanks for all the feedback, if there is more, please post it to the mailing list
[16:50] <dpm> I think now I'd like to reshuffle the topics priorities a bit, since we haven't got much time left
[16:50] <MichealH> Topic for the last 10 mins?
[16:50] <dpm> [TOPIC] Announcement of upcoming Hardy.4 service release
[16:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announcement of upcoming Hardy.4 service release
[16:50] <dpm> ArneGoetje, could you tell us a few words on that, please?
[16:51] <ArneGoetje> We will have the 8.04.4 service release in the end of this month.
[16:51] <ArneGoetje> For that, I'm going to create new -base language-packs. This will happen soon, within the next days.
[16:52] <ArneGoetje> The language packs will be uploaded to the languag pack PPA first and them moved over to hardy-proposed.
[16:52] <ArneGoetje> I'd like to ask for volunteers to help test the new language-packs in a Hardy VM or so...
[16:53] <morphias> id help test (even though im not bi-langual)
[16:54] <dpm> right, so there will be a call for testing. ArneGoetje, do you think we can take the opportunity to release the Karmic language packs to -proposed as well?
[16:54] <ArneGoetje> dpm: sure, I can build them too.
[16:54] <dpm> I think it makes sense, since we haven't updated them yet
[16:54] <ArneGoetje> dpm: yup
[16:55] <happyaron> then we can make an announcement at mailing list, to tell teams work on them
[16:55] <dpm> could you please build them, then, and let me know? I can take care of the announcement and call for testing, if you like
[16:55] <ArneGoetje> dpm: of course
[16:55] <MichealH> Remember: The meeting Ends at 5:00 PM GMT
[16:55] <dpm> great
[16:56] <dpm> adiroiban, the other 2 topics were yours, is it ok if we postpone them to the next meeting or to the ML?
[16:57] <dpm> we can leave the last few minutes for any questions
[16:57] <adiroiban> dpm: sure. np
[16:58] <happyaron> we can talk about the first step of terminology at #ubuntu-translators
[16:58] <dpm> any questions before we finish?
[16:58] <dpm> happyaron, sure
[16:58] <MichealH> Few last words
[16:58] <happyaron> it is at a starting stage
[16:58] <MichealH> Get help at www.ubuntuforums.org or goto the Ubuntu IRC Channel @ #ubuntu
[16:58] <morphias> so for these hardy language packs, they are for the installed hardy not the installer correct?
[16:58] <MichealH> Get Involved @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[16:58] <ArneGoetje> morphias: correct
[16:58] <morphias> ok
[16:58] <happyaron> ArneGoetje: will there be new LiveCD?
[16:59] <ArneGoetje> happyaron: not sure about that one... need to ask in #ubuntu-release
[16:59] <morphias> for however needs testers, add me.  ill create a vm guest.
[16:59] <happyaron> ArneGoetje: it there is, we still can update translations of installer perhaps
[16:59] <MichealH> happyaron : Yes Lucid Lynx in 21st April
[16:59] <dpm> great, thanks morphias!
[17:00] <ArneGoetje> happyaron: yes, need to contact with the installer team about that
[17:00] <happyaron> MichealH: sorry, I meant Hardy .4
[17:00] <morphias> no prob
[17:00] <dpm> ok, thank you everyone for your participation and keep up the good work!
[17:00] <dpm> #endmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
}}}

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CategoryTranslations