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 * Sheepeatingtaz  * Sheepeatingtaz - StephenGarton

This is the fourth meeting of the UKTeam, starting at 21:30 GMT and finishing at 23:39 GMT


Please type PRESENT at the start of the meeting to ensure we are all clear who is online and paying attention. Active Atendees (IRC nicknames):


  • Screencast project
    • Do we continue to make Ubuntu-UK branded screencasts, if so is the current format okay or should something be changed?
    • Should they be hosted/linked-from ubuntu-uk.org?
  • Previous Agenda Followups.
    • NikButler apologizes for not following up on previous Charity topic and will be emailing people today ( 19th Dec ) to get this action moving forward.


Screencast project (part 1) It was decided that the UKTeam should continue producing Screencasts, and that an attempt should be made to distribute them to the wider community. It was agreed that NikButler should liase with the LoCo Team to determine whether there are currently any efforts in any other LoCos to provide Screencasts in different languages.

Charities NikButler was not present to update us on the status of the action agreed on at the last meeting. There was some discussion about which charities should be chosen, with several suggestions including NSPCC, BIBIC, the EFF and the FSF. It was also suggested that we should focus on open source based charities. It was decided that the type of charity, and specific choices, should be discussed further on the mailing lists or wiki

The Role of Ubuntu-uk.org It was decided that the Ubuntu-uk.org site should contain finalised and polished copies of wiki articles (i.e. a snapshot of the wiki page) to try and give a more professional appearance. A process for adding pages to Ubuntu-uk.org needs to be defined at a later date.

How we got involved in FOSS Members should try to include a section on how they got involved in the FOSS community on their wiki page. A new wiki page should be created that contains links to the relevant section in each members wiki to provide newcomers with an idea of what paths are open to them.

Screencast project (part 2) After AlanPope joined the meeting it was decided to revisit the topic of Screencasts. The consensus was that more people should be involved with creating screencasts, but people did not know how. AlanPope volunteered to write a HOWTO and make a screencast of "How to make a screencast". MatthewEast suggested that the screencasts should somehow be linked to the Ubuntu documentation project (see timestamp [23:22:01] in the IRC log), and volunteered to speak to the relevant groups to see how this could be done.

Ubuntu-uk pastebin The idea to set up an ubuntu-uk pastebin was rejected on the grounds that it would probably not get enough use to make it worth it. MatthewEast will chase up information about a possible Ubuntu-wide pastebin.

EDM179 It was agreed that we should discuss how to follow up a request to sign this EDM at the next TeamUK meeting.

Mentoring Due to a lack of time, the possibility of setting up a mentoring scheme will be added to the agenda for the next meeting

The meeting concluded with the agreement that the [http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20070109Meeting next meeting] would be held on 9th January 2007 at 2130 GMT.

Any Other Business

Guide Lines

The chairman of the meeting should endeavour to ensure that key points are discussed in an appropriate time. Key Topics from the Agenda should be tabled in the channel using a market such as [ TOPIC ] or * TOPIC * Followed by the agenda item. Where Suggestions or Ideas are put forward and considered as acceptable to the group then it should be noted by the Chairman as [ IDEA ] or * IDEA * . Where a concept is discussed and agreed the use of [ AGREED ] or * AGREED * should be defined by the chairman and should signify the topic is discussed and the meeting is to move on. Be clear on the channel when the meeting is concluded and how and when the minutes will be posted.


[21:36:23] <Seeker`> everyone that wants to take part say "PRESENT"
[21:36:23] <anto9us> present
[21:36:27] <jayteeuk> present
[21:36:27] <GazzaK> or even a irc - electric cattleprod interface
[21:36:29] <selinuxium> present
[21:36:29] <mdke> I'm here
[21:36:35] <stdin> present
[21:36:38] <RonRhodes> present
[21:36:39] <AdamBagnall> present
[21:36:39] <Seeker`> present
[21:36:42] <GazzaK> all these presents, for me :-)
[21:36:46] <GazzaK> vacant
[21:36:47] <sheepeatingtaz> present
[21:37:04] <GazzaK> present (hehe)
[21:37:11] <chaddy> PRESENT
[21:37:20] <Seeker`> so thats 10 so far
[21:37:27] <X3N> PRESENTS
[21:37:50] <jayteeuk> Very seasonal X3N. :)
[21:37:53] <Seeker`> heh
[21:37:56] <X3N> thank you
[21:38:05] <Seeker`> so 11 people are "alive" at the moment
[21:38:15] <jayteeuk> I never said I was alive.
[21:38:15] <selinuxium> just...
[21:38:27] <Seeker`> Anyone want to chair?
[21:38:29] <X3N> and raise your hand if you can be bothered to have a meeting ;)
[21:38:34] <GazzaK> I have beer
[21:38:36] <AdamBagnall> Well voluunteered Seeker`
[21:38:42] <jayteeuk> Seconded.
[21:38:47] <selinuxium> 3rd
[21:39:01] <anto9us> I nominate ubotu
[21:39:02] <Seeker`> AdamBagnall: I'll set keely on you :P
[21:39:03] <X3N> i've got a chair
[21:39:06] <Seeker`> am I chairing then?
[21:39:16] <jayteeuk> Yes please Seeker`
[21:39:21] <RonRhodes> 4th yes
[21:39:27] <Seeker`> ok then, lets see
[21:39:35] <anto9us> 5th yes
[21:39:45] <anto9us> you almost have a majority
[21:39:53] <neuro_> oops
[21:39:54] <neuro_> present
[21:39:57] <GazzaK> 6th yes, \o/
[21:39:58] <Seeker`> looks like popey is coming back
[21:40:09] --> Xalior has joined this channel (n=darran@lugradio/xalior).
[21:40:12] <Seeker`> [TOPIC] Screencast project
[21:40:15] <Xalior> present
[21:40:25] <sheepeatingtaz> Xalior: you're late :P
[21:40:30] <Xalior> sheepeatingtaz: story of my life.
[21:40:45] <Seeker`> Does anyone have any opinions of the screencasts at present?
[21:40:47] <GazzaK> I vote, keep them going, keep them hosted there, link to them from ubuntu-uk.org
[21:40:50] <mdke> I have something to say on this proposal.
[21:41:00] <GazzaK> I think they are great \o/ popey
[21:41:05] <selinuxium> mdke: go for it!
[21:41:14] <mdke> I wanted to underline the fact that these screenshots are not simply useful for -uk users, it is a shame that right now they are being developed on our list rather than using an international list, which would get more people involved.
[21:41:37] <mdke> I also think they should be hosted by a support resource provided by the international community
[21:42:07] <Seeker`> hmm
[21:42:07] <mdke> for example, the documentation website. I'd be quite interested in trying to promote more involvement in this project from the wider community
[21:42:11] <jayteeuk> Fair point mdke, but how do we get them recognised by the larger Ubuntu whole?
[21:42:18] <GazzaK> I agree, actually on that, who wants to push canonical?
[21:42:18] <Seeker`> perhaps someone could talk to the LOCO organisers about it?
[21:42:19] <jayteeuk> And more importantly promoted?
[21:42:29] <mdke> Canonical don't need to be touched on this
[21:42:47] <GazzaK> what about jono - he is the loco team blokey isn't he?
[21:42:48] <mdke> it's a documentation issue, essentially.
[21:43:05] <mdke> we can try and integrate these videos with the existing documentation
[21:43:11] <neuro_> loco jono :)
[21:43:15] <anto9us> or maybe an ubuntu-media project
[21:43:48] <GazzaK> anto9us, that might be read as open sauce p0rn though
[21:43:48] <Seeker`> is there anything wrong with the current format of screencast?
[21:43:49] <mdke> I already poked popey to write the the -doc list about this, but he rather gave up after the first post :(
[21:44:07] <selinuxium> true, the screencasts could be referenced from relevant wiki's
[21:44:11] <anto9us> GazzaK, that would draw some publicity :)
[21:44:15] <mdke> we can definitely arrange hosting and insert links in documentation to videos which have been through a good community review process
[21:44:42] <jayteeuk> Do other LoCos have similar content?
[21:44:51] <mdke> no
[21:45:00] <AdamBagnall> Maybe we should get the screencasts on the fridge
[21:45:01] <mdke> not that I'm aware of
[21:45:04] <jayteeuk> If so, how have they gone about it?  What processes do they have in place?
[21:45:17] <Seeker`> LoudMouthMan is the LoCo contact
[21:45:18] <mdke> the Fridge is rather a news site, not relevant to support. However, it can be used to promote the videos
[21:45:21] <GazzaK> there seems to be like three different ubuntu howto video things going, someone emailed the group last week about it
[21:45:32] <selinuxium> AdamBagnall: that is a great idea! it will help raise the profile of the UK team aswell
[21:45:52] <mdke> GazzaK: yeah, I read that. But those sites are not specifically help targetted, they have all Ubuntu-related videos
[21:45:57] <Seeker`> perhaps he could see (possibly through Jono) if there are any other LoCos doing the same
[21:46:12] <Seeker`> if they are, then there could be some kind of group effort to have a central "repository"
[21:46:38] <mdke> that's exactly the sort of thing that will happen automatically if the project is made community-wide, rather than loco-wide
[21:46:47] <mdke> there is really nothing loco-related about the project
[21:46:55] <jayteeuk> And if not, we could push the idea and get other LoCos to contribute content.
[21:47:12] <jayteeuk> mdke: I agree, it should be a community-wide thing.
[21:47:19] <sheepeatingtaz> there is loco-specific content though, they are all in English, at the moment
[21:47:30] <sheepeatingtaz> not just out Loco, I admit
[21:47:33] <stdin> it would be good to get a group of people doing the screencasts for ubuntu and its variants imo
[21:47:33] <GazzaK> I do like the videos popey makes, glad to see others see them as important as I do
[21:47:33] <sheepeatingtaz> *our
[21:47:52] <mdke> alright, I've made my points I think. I'll try and catch popey if he is around
[21:47:59] <GazzaK> thanks mdke
[21:48:12] <Seeker`> right, so what action needs to be taken (if any)
[21:48:17] <mdke> by the way, I am not very involved in the uk team, but I am English, so feel free to grab me for advice or any help with things
[21:49:01] <jayteeuk> Seeker`: Gather information on similar efforts from other LoCos?
[21:49:06] <anto9us> everyone, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultimediaGuide
[21:49:19] <GazzaK> mdke catches up with popey, someone pokes jono to look into other locos efforts, and a centrally managed location for linking to videos (or hosting them)
[21:49:44] <mdke> I'm fairly confident there aren't similar efforts in other LoCos
[21:49:54] <GazzaK> me too, but it's nice to ask
[21:50:02] <jayteeuk> Yeah, we should check to be sure.
[21:50:19] <jayteeuk> Even if only to avoid the "you never asked us" arguments later down the line. ;)
[21:50:20] <Seeker`> anto9us: Useful
[21:50:27] <anto9us> also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultimediaGuideContent
[21:50:35] <mdke> well, they would have talked about it. And plus, it's not a loco-issue, so they would also have brought it to the attention of the wider community
[21:50:58] <tsmithe> argh!!
[21:51:03] <tsmithe> i new i'd forget!!!
[21:51:07] <tsmithe> what's happened?
[21:51:27] <RonRhodes> keep supporting popey and look into extending
[21:51:29] <GazzaK> tsmithe, loads, too late :p
[21:51:33] <tsmithe> damn
[21:51:39] <tsmithe> it's only been twenty minutes
[21:51:43] <jayteeuk> tsmithe: Say present and pretend you were here the whole time. ;)
[21:51:48] <Seeker`> [IDEA] LoudMouthMan liase with Jono and the LoCo team to try to determine wether there are any other similar efforts
[21:51:48] <tsmithe> ok
[21:52:00] <tsmithe> i'll read my log
[21:52:01] <sheepeatingtaz> tsmithe: We are rebranding as the Ubuntu-Scotland team
[21:52:10] <GazzaK> och eye
[21:52:41] <jayteeuk> sheepeatingtaz: Will our logo be branded with the colours of the Balamory houses then?
[21:52:47] <RonRhodes> should be och aye
[21:53:02] <chaddy> the noo
[21:53:26] <Seeker`> [IDEA] Talk to someone from the MultimediaGuide to see if our screencasts can be included in the project (any volunteers?)
[21:53:26] <GazzaK> jimmy lad
[21:53:27] <jayteeuk> Seeker`: Poll the wider community, seek out help with hosting?
[21:53:45] <mdke> you don't need to seek out, I already offered to help with that
[21:53:48] <sheepeatingtaz> I've spoken with popey, he's happy with the hosting at the moment
[21:53:56] <sheepeatingtaz> (previously)
[21:53:57] <anto9us> I think hosting can be taken care of by youtube and googlevideo, the site need only host links
[21:54:05] <RonRhodes> next item please chair
[21:54:08] <mdke> it would be nicer to have it done on an ubuntu domain
[21:54:10] <Seeker`> what do people think of the two [ideas]?
[21:54:41] <GazzaK> good
[21:54:43] <tsmithe> right
[21:54:44] <jayteeuk> Agree with both.
[21:54:49] <chaddy> agree
[21:54:49] <anto9us> mdke, yes, but there's the payoff of a wider potential audience and the marketing value in that
[21:54:50] <tsmithe> i read through the logs
[21:54:52] <GazzaK> concurr
[21:54:52] <mdke> Seeker`: I think the second idea is probably not going to be very fruitful, given that it's a dead (and quite misguided) project
[21:55:03] <mdke> first idea sounds good
[21:55:29] <Seeker`> mdke: we may be able to pick their brains, see if they found anything useful
[21:55:33] <mdke> anto9us: that's true. but the videos aren't marketing, they are for help with Ubuntu
[21:55:52] <mdke> marketing/advocacy videos would be good there, I agree.
[21:56:00] <anto9us> mdke, yes, doesn't have to be mutually exclusive though
[21:56:07] <Seeker`> does anyone disagree with  [IDEA] LoudMouthMan liase with Jono and the LoCo team to try to determine wether there are any other similar efforts
[21:56:21] <GazzaK> I vote we make popey make hundreds more videos, all before new year (since he is not here)
[21:56:33] <tsmithe> Seeker`, yes
[21:56:33] <tsmithe> joking
[21:56:55] <Seeker`> [AGREED] LoudMouthMan liase with Jono and the LoCo team to try to determine wether there are any other similar efforts
[21:57:01] <sheepeatingtaz> I'm working on getting the relevant bits working so I can help do some Kubuntu versions
[21:57:13] <GazzaK> but no one uses kubuntu
[21:57:13] <stdin> yay sheepeatingtaz
[21:57:16] <anto9us> sad thing is, they'll all probably have to be remade in April
[21:57:18] * GazzaK hides
[21:57:25] <sheepeatingtaz> anto9us: why?
[21:57:32] <tsmithe> feisty
[21:57:35] <Seeker`> does anyone else have any suggestions with regards to the screencasts, or shall we move on
[21:57:39] <tsmithe> i hope it's not too different
[21:57:44] <tsmithe> Seeker`, i'm good
[21:57:47] <sheepeatingtaz> tsmithe: yes, but aren't they done on dapper atm?
[21:57:52] <tsmithe> yes
[21:58:00] * Xalior has nothing on this topic :)
[21:58:02] <tsmithe> but it's (mostly) still relevant, i guess
[21:58:04] <stdin> edgy mostly
[21:58:17] <tsmithe> where's popey for input on this?!
[21:58:20] <stdin> sure popy uses edgy for them
[21:58:25] <tsmithe> ok
[21:58:27] <anto9us> they will at least need checking for validity in current release
[21:58:32] <tsmithe> yes
[21:58:46] <mdke> once the project is community wide it will attract plenty of QA
[21:58:56] <Seeker`> we should come back to this at a later date, when popey is around as he is probably the person to talk to about all this
[21:59:01] <mdke> yeah
[21:59:05] <jayteeuk> I have nothing further to add at this point.
[21:59:14] <GazzaK> I do
[21:59:28] <GazzaK> just kidding
[21:59:37] <Seeker`> ok
[21:59:39] <RonRhodes> agreed lets move on
[22:00:05] <Seeker`> it says on the agenda that LoudMouthMan is following up on the charity thing
[22:00:16] <Seeker`> so we will have to get an update from him next time
[22:00:45] <jayteeuk> What charity thing is that?  Is it from a previous meeting?
[22:00:51] <GazzaK> and thats  about it isn't it?
[22:00:55] <GazzaK> jayteeuk, yes
[22:01:20] <AdamBagnall> That's why LMM's not here, he doesnt want to give his update :-)
[22:01:20] * tsmithe thinks money should be going to his venezuela fund
[22:01:26] <GazzaK> we were talking about charidees to try to support
[22:01:33] <tsmithe> my venezuela fund!
[22:01:34] <tsmithe> :)
[22:01:42] <Seeker`> jayteeuk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20061127Meeting
[22:01:44] <tsmithe> i'll wear the ubuntu-uk logo to venezuela
[22:01:46] <tsmithe> :)
[22:01:49] <GazzaK> I liked the idea of nspcc, but others liked some other charity
[22:01:54] <jayteeuk> Seeker`: thanks.
[22:01:57] <tsmithe> like me?
[22:02:01] <anto9us> GazzaK, support in what respect?
[22:02:27] <tsmithe> bah... people are ignoring me
[22:02:31] <GazzaK> anto9us, its in that link
[22:02:42] <sheepeatingtaz> anto9us: I believe it's causes to raise money for, like auctioning the Signed T-shirt?
[22:02:49] <chaddy> close to /ignore-ing you, tsmithe
[22:03:01] <tsmithe> hmm
[22:03:08] <GazzaK> and selling tsmithe into slavery
[22:03:13] <tsmithe> noooo!
[22:03:20] <Seeker`> right, any suggestions for charities that we can support?
[22:03:26] <tsmithe> i'll just get back to packaging fmit
[22:03:32] <tsmithe> Seeker`, i said!
[22:03:43] <jayteeuk> I have a vested interest in any charity associated with helping brain-injured people, especially children.
[22:03:54] <GazzaK> NSPCC - mostly 'cos me mum used to work for them and they do a wonderful job, with hardly any money
[22:04:11] --> Webspot__ has joined this channel (n=Webspotu@5ac45af9.bb.sky.com).
[22:04:13] <Seeker`> jayteeuk: Any specifically?
[22:04:19] <anto9us> there's an interesting article on BBC about charities' attitude to opensource here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6124582.stm
[22:04:34] <-- Webspot__ has left this server (Client Quit).
[22:04:46] <chaddy> I'd be more interested in collefting for the EFF or the FSF...
[22:04:52] <chaddy> s/eft/ect
[22:04:57] <jayteeuk> Seeker`: From a UK perspective, BIBIC.
[22:05:35] <jayteeuk> http://www.bibic.org.uk/
[22:06:05] <Seeker`> so
[22:06:12] <sheepeatingtaz> I think the issue would be better discussed using the Wiki and mailing list, as most people (not just the ones who can use IRC) will have an opinion on the matter
[22:06:30] <jayteeuk> sheepeatingtaz: I'd tend to agree.
[22:06:33] <mdke> anto9us: interesting, thanks
[22:06:37] <Seeker`> sheepeatingtaz: I would like to get a few suggestions down for people to start to discuss
[22:06:42] <Seeker`> [IDEA] NSPCC
[22:06:47] <Seeker`> [IDEA] BIBC
[22:06:50] <Seeker`> [IDEA] EFF
[22:06:53] <Seeker`> [IDEA] FSF
[22:06:53] <anto9us> I'm happy for charity support as long as it's a charity and not a religious organisation like Christian Aid
[22:07:10] <jayteeuk> anto9us: Agreed.
[22:07:12] <GazzaK> agreed, I do not think religion should be supported
[22:07:26] --> jamesbrose has joined this channel (n=james@cpc3-bolt6-0-0-cust407.manc.cable.ntl.com).
[22:07:36] <mdke> it should be computer related, preferably promoting free software
[22:07:51] <mdke> otherwise, it's not really anything to do with ubuntu-uk, IMHO
[22:07:56] <sheepeatingtaz> I disagree
[22:08:00] <Seeker`> me too
[22:08:05] <jamesbrose> Can anyone help me with the fstab thing, its really annoying
[22:08:11] <GazzaK> infact I'd go so far as to say i'd have a hissy fit if the charity we did end up supporting was religious
[22:08:20] <chaddy> mdke: Iagree strongly
[22:08:20] <tsmithe> jamesbrose, we are in a meeting ;)
[22:08:25] <jamesbrose> oh okay
[22:08:25] <GazzaK> jamesbrose, we are in a meeting right now :-)
[22:08:28] <anto9us> jamesbrose, after the meeting, sure
[22:08:31] <mdke> jamesbrose: #ubuntu will help
[22:08:33] <jamesbrose> Kay
[22:08:40] <RonRhodes> looks like we are running out out of topics, move for close meeting
[22:08:41] * tsmithe promotes free software
[22:08:46] <jamesbrose> Woops - forgot :)
[22:08:57] <GazzaK> is there free software charitys?
[22:09:00] <anto9us> move for any other business
[22:09:01] <tsmithe> eff
[22:09:01] <tsmithe> fsf
[22:09:07] <Seeker`> the tshirt and book were done for children in need
[22:09:11] <mdke> GazzaK: yes, of course
[22:09:19] <Seeker`> which aren't computer related
[22:09:41] <sheepeatingtaz> tsmithe: so do I, I just don't think that Free Software should be a pre-requisite to us helping raise money for a charity
[22:09:57] <stdin> what were those 2 things that were asked on the mailing list?
[22:09:57] <tsmithe> i tend to agree
[22:10:01] <tsmithe> but it would be nice
[22:10:08] <mdke> Seeker`: that was nice of course, but not really anything to do with ubuntu-uk. What we are doing here is promoting free software, specifically Ubuntu
[22:10:18] <tsmithe> yes
[22:10:31] <tsmithe> so that's why i'd prefer to see support for a free software organisation
[22:10:35] <GazzaK> i'll only donate to the NSPCC, but thats because I've seen exactly what they do with the money
[22:10:47] <tsmithe> promoting things like software in schools, and such
[22:10:49] <mdke> private initiatives to raise money for charity are great, and we shouldn't discourage them, of course. But as a group, I think ubuntu-uk should stick to Ubuntu
[22:10:58] <mdke> tsmithe: exactly
[22:11:05] <Seeker`> i agree that supporting free software is important
[22:11:07] <tsmithe> but is there such a group?
[22:11:25] <sheepeatingtaz> *cough* HullFLOSS *cough*
[22:11:28] <GazzaK> what do EFF and FSF do then?
[22:11:30] <Seeker`> but by dontating to a range of charities under the name "ubuntu-uk" we would be raising awareness fo the group
[22:11:32] <RonRhodes> ubuntu-uk
[22:11:37] <tsmithe> GazzaK, foss
[22:11:42] <tsmithe> however, it's not uk-foss!
[22:12:20] <mdke> you could raise money to promote Ubuntu too :) Plenty of more developed Locoteams raise funds to pay for their advocacy activities
[22:12:34] <tsmithe> how do they do that?
[22:12:36] <tsmithe> examples?
[22:12:37] <anto9us> I think offering installation and training services for charities for free would be a good idea as long as they pay expenses, I'd do that, enough volunteers and we could make a news item out of that
[22:12:41] <tsmithe> yes
[22:12:50] <tsmithe> that would be fantastic
[22:12:52] <jayteeuk> anto9us: One of the things mentioned in the BBC article is training.
[22:12:55] <tsmithe> but for raising money?
[22:12:56] <-- jamesbrose has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
[22:13:01] <anto9us> jayteeuk, yes
[22:13:02] <Seeker`> [IDEA] Discuss further within ubuntu-uk which charities to choose on the mailing list, wiki and irc channel. An important issue is whether we should support only free software based charities.
[22:13:23] <GazzaK> anto9us, but that BBC article explained why they feel that they cannot afford free software - its the ongoing support for it costs more
[22:13:32] <tsmithe> Seeker`, agreed
[22:13:39] <anto9us> income to free software charities, time to other charities
[22:13:46] <anto9us> GazzaK, support is free on here
[22:13:59] <tsmithe> anto9us, clever ;)
[22:14:01] <anto9us> that article makes me grind my teeth, it's biased
[22:14:05] <mdke> Seeker`: sounds good, I'd replace "only" with "predominantly"
[22:14:06] <tsmithe> indeed
[22:14:09] <jayteeuk> It's an age-old argument.
[22:14:16] <GazzaK> anto9us, and if you charity deals in millions, would you rely on irc for free unchecked support
[22:14:16] <tsmithe> anto9us, just like the letter i got today from jim knight
[22:14:20] <mdke> tsmithe: well, making banners, organising events, etc costs money
[22:14:24] <tsmithe> yes
[22:14:25] <jayteeuk> And to my mind it's rubbish.
[22:14:30] <tsmithe> yes
[22:14:32] <GazzaK> anto9us, I do agree with you, i'm playing devils advocate
[22:14:45] <tsmithe> GazzaK, no: you'd buy support from canonical!
[22:14:50] <Seeker`> [IDEA] Discuss further within ubuntu-uk which charities to choose on the mailing list, wiki and irc channel. An important issue is the level of donations to non free software charities.
[22:14:57] <tsmithe> i said, agreed!
[22:15:02] <anto9us> GazzaK, no, but a team of volunteers willing to give some level of guarantee might help
[22:15:05] <Seeker`> does anyone disagree with this
[22:15:11] <GazzaK> Seeker`, agree
[22:15:27] <anto9us> Seeker`, agree
[22:15:28] <jayteeuk> Agree.
[22:15:29] <stdin> agreed
[22:15:36] <GazzaK> cabbages
[22:15:51] <jayteeuk> Maybe we should be looking to support an organisation that educates people like Mr Buckley. ;)
[22:16:01] <jayteeuk> Would that be FSF?
[22:16:03] <Seeker`> [AGREED] Discuss further within ubuntu-uk which charities to choose on the mailing list, wiki and irc channel. An important issue is the level of donations to non free software charities.
[22:16:29] <Seeker`> Lastly, is there any other business?
[22:16:37] <Seeker`> (afk for 2 mins)
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[22:17:05] <stdin> In the mailing list there were 2 toppics, 1. should ubutnu-uk.org be ubuntu.com'ed?
[22:17:12] <GazzaK> can anyone take out my rubbish solicitors, they have delayed my house move till after christmas by being inept
[22:17:19] <jayteeuk> I'd like to ask if there's a general consensus on the direction we should be taking in lobbying MPs re EDM179.
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[22:17:35] <stdin> 2. should we note/blog how we got involved in foss
[22:17:56] <GazzaK> jayteeuk, we seem to just be emailing them with a standard email, it's worked well so far
[22:18:03] <Seeker`> (bk)
[22:18:06] <Seeker`> right
[22:18:17] <Seeker`> stdin: Please can you clarify what you mean by (1)
[22:18:49] <-- Webspot_ has left this server (Connection timed out).
[22:18:56] <jayteeuk> I think it's important that we as a community we present a consistent vision.
[22:19:01] <stdin> Seeker`: it's wasn't my idea, so i'm just asking because it apparently wasn't on the agenda
[22:19:09] <sheepeatingtaz> Seeker`: X3N emailed the list to guage views on the role of ubuntu-uk.org
[22:19:11] <jayteeuk> GazzaK: When we get a response, especially a negative one, do we just leave it at that?
[22:19:22] <stdin> Seeker`: but there was a mock-up made : http://www.ubuntu-uk.org/dev/new/
[22:19:24] <jayteeuk> When a name goes on the EDM, is that it?
[22:19:46] <GazzaK> i'd question their sanity, unless they explain why they cannot sign it (as some cannot)
[22:19:49] <Seeker`> jayteeuk: Please can we discuss that in a minute
[22:20:00] <anto9us> jayteeuk, a name and shame list?
[22:20:07] <jayteeuk> Seeker`: OK.
[22:20:35] <Seeker`> [TOPIC] New look and feel for the ubuntu-uk site
[22:20:54] <GazzaK> agree
[22:20:59] <GazzaK> make it pretty
[22:21:05] <Seeker`> any opinions on this?
[22:21:17] <mdke> what's the site for?
[22:21:30] <sheepeatingtaz> mdke: That's the underlying question :)
[22:21:31] <mdke> we use the wiki, as far as I can see, which is great
[22:21:34] <GazzaK> I'm not a web dev, but the current homepage looks erm a bit boring like innit
[22:21:41] <mdke> wiki = collaboration with the wider community
[22:21:51] <jamesbrose> I like it, personally
[22:21:53] <stdin> I think it would make ubuntu-uk.org look more official
[22:21:55] <GazzaK> can we have ponies?
[22:21:55] <selinuxium> I think it is better than the one we have but take a look at http://www.ubuntu-fr.org/  for a really nice look.
[22:22:08] <mdke> there's not a great amount of point simply copying ubuntu.com, because people can just visit ubuntu.com, no?
[22:22:31] <mdke> maybe some time can be spent making https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam look pretty instead?
[22:22:32] <Seeker`> mdke: We are talking about the style of the page, not the content
[22:22:39] <selinuxium> mdke take a look at the french local site (url above)
[22:22:45] <GazzaK> can we just steal ubuntu frog and change it to engrish?
[22:22:46] <mdke> I know it well, selinuxium
[22:22:47] <jamesbrose> Hmm, i'm not sure about the fr site. I think it should have the header from ubuntu.com

[22:22:55] <mdke> but the french community have a good reason for their site
[22:22:56] <jamesbrose> (ubuntu-uk)

[22:23:01] <anto9us> we need a bulldog on ours
[22:23:13] <sheepeatingtaz> Seeker`: I don't think we are discussing *just* the layout
[22:23:17] <chaddy> english bulldog?
[22:23:24] <chaddy> think it through anto9us
[22:23:29] <anto9us> a british bulldog
[22:23:39] <sheepeatingtaz> The layout should be reflective of the content that is there
[22:23:42] <Seeker`> sheepeatingtaz: thats the impression i got from the email
[22:23:59] <anto9us> chaddy, why, what's wrong with that? it's very traditional, I see nothing offensive
[22:23:59] <sheepeatingtaz> "I would also quite like to discuss what people think the role of
[22:24:01] <sheepeatingtaz> ubuntu-uk.org"
[22:24:17] <Seeker`> ok
[22:24:27] <Seeker`> my mistake
[22:24:28] <selinuxium> I believe that the french site is very clean and easy to navigate, we should make sure the same goes for uk.
[22:24:29] <GazzaK> local POP to point to UK specific stuff
[22:24:30] <chaddy> it's not British, for a start, anto9us, it's English, it's just that the English call it Britisih
[22:24:32] <sheepeatingtaz> Seeker`: np :)
[22:24:54] <GazzaK> maybe we should have burberry then chaddy
[22:25:08] <Seeker`> [NEW TOPIC] What is the role of ubuntu-uk.org
[22:25:25] <mdke> I'm starting to suspect that Seeker` isn't real, but a machine
[22:25:28] <GazzaK> role of the uby-uk.org - local POP to point to UK specific stuff
[22:25:34] <anto9us> how about with a leak and a bowl of porridge in front of it?
[22:25:36] <Seeker`> mdke: Why?
[22:25:41] * GazzaK tickles Seeker` 
[22:25:44] <mdke> Seeker`: all this [NEW TOPIC] [IDEA] stuff
[22:25:46] <selinuxium> Is the UK site for all UK members? English irish scottish welsh?
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[22:26:00] <jamesbrose> united kingdom
[22:26:02] <Seeker`> mdke: Just trying to follow what LoudMouthMan laid out in the agenda
[22:26:03] <anto9us> selinuxium, yes
[22:26:10] * Seeker` prods GazzaK
[22:26:11] <asgilder> Anyone have a Happauge wintv2000 card in their computer?
[22:26:15] <GazzaK> selinuxium, and gay bi male femail trans and "other"
[22:26:23] <Seeker`> asgilder: We are having a meeting at the moment
[22:26:23] <stdin> ubuntu-uk.org should be a place to get uk specific help/support/info (and also link to ubuntu.com)
[22:26:30] <jayteeuk> United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, yes?
[22:26:37] <Seeker`> asgilder: We can help once it has finished. Alternatively, visit #ubuntu
[22:26:42] <asgilder> Sorry.
[22:26:48] <Seeker`> its ok :)
[22:26:59] <selinuxium> OK, i was wondering about the English references above.
[22:27:05] <GazzaK> asgilder, I have one in my mums computer desk, in a box
[22:27:19] <jayteeuk> selinuxium: Yeah, I know, me too. :)
[22:27:42] <Seeker`> stdin: But do we need a seperate site for this purpose? or does the wiki cover our needs?
[22:27:43] <GazzaK> don't feel so minoritised jamesbrose and selinuxium
[22:28:02] <GazzaK> and that was supposed to be jayteeuk  and selinuxium
[22:28:08] <jamesbrose> Don't worry, I'm in a house with 4 women :)
[22:28:15] <mdke> Seeker`: I think the wiki covers them, myself
[22:28:22] *** asgilder is now known as demagogue.
[22:28:23] <jamesbrose> oh right :)
[22:28:29] * selinuxium jumps a cab to jamesbrose's house
[22:28:32] *** demagogue is now known as paradoxical.
[22:28:56] *** paradoxical is now known as paradoxical21.
[22:29:01] <selinuxium> Seeker`: i  think the wiki is fit for purpose at this present time
[22:29:02] <jamesbrose> At the mo, its just me and my nan :)
[22:29:09] <Seeker`> ok, i want to try something
[22:29:11] <anto9us> asgilder, stop nick spamming us please
[22:29:13] <stdin> hmm, yes, the wiki covers those, but then do we need ubuntu-uk.org at all if it's all in the wiki?
[22:29:24] <GazzaK> 4 women, that must be shopping shopping, men, shopping, is my bum big, shopping, men, cooking, shopping, all day long, poor jamesbrose
[22:29:33] <jayteeuk> Does wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam need to be general LoCo-driven stuff, "live" documents of what we're doing, and ubuntu-uk.org the "official" site of the team?
[22:29:45] <jamesbrose> Gazzak, Thankgod, somebody understands
[22:29:46] <mdke> stdin: in my opinion, no.
[22:29:55] <jamesbrose> you forgot wrapping presents
[22:30:06] <jamesbrose> - speed wrapping
[22:30:09] <GazzaK> lol
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[22:30:20] <Seeker`> GazzaK, jamesbrose: sorry, please can we get back on the subject of the meeting, i'm finding it difficult to follow
[22:30:25] <jamesbrose> Indeed
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[22:30:38] <GazzaK> sorry Seeker` we thought you were a robot
[22:30:51] <Seeker`> jayteeuk: What would go on the "official" site though?
[22:30:58] <anto9us> Seeker`, we were all following you, if you're following us, we'll be going around in circles
[22:31:28] <Seeker`> anto9us: What is wrong with cirlces? are you prejudiced against circles? :P I was just having trouble picking out what people were saying
[22:31:32] <jayteeuk> Seeker I'm not sure -- should it be like our "corporate presence"?  Finalised versions of what's on the wiki, with the wiki for working copies?
[22:31:42] <Seeker`> hmm
[22:31:55] <GazzaK> I always thought the .org site is the "bigger picture but not so upto date" and the wiki is the "leading edge but maybe too macro"
[22:32:10] <jayteeuk> Say for example we're working on a new screencast.
[22:32:14] <-- sonicGB has left this server ("Thank $diety, he's finally gone!!!").
[22:32:26] <jayteeuk> wiki.ubuntu.com could be where we plan it, storyboard it, etc.
[22:32:33] <GazzaK> if it is WIP - wiki, if it is polished and perfect - .org???
[22:32:36] <jayteeuk> Where we discuss it and edit it.
[22:32:47] <selinuxium> sounds like a plan...
[22:32:48] <jayteeuk> And when it's ready, put in on ubuntu-uk.org?
[22:32:56] <Seeker`> I can definately see where GazzaK and jayteeuk are coming from
[22:32:57] <jayteeuk> GazzaK: exactly.
[22:32:57] <RonRhodes> Seeker are you recording this for the Wiki?
[22:32:58] <stdin> I don't think there is anything wrong with having things on both the website and wiki, some people are more comfortable with websites than wikis
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[22:32:59] <mdke> well, the thing is, it's great to publish things on the wiki too, so people from other parts of the community can easily find things and share them
[22:33:14] <mdke> the whole community works with the wiki, and reads RecentChanges, and so on
[22:33:28] <jamesbrose> Has it been discussed about having a -uk pastebin?
[22:33:29] <jayteeuk> mdke: It'd still be on the wiki.
[22:33:36] <Seeker`> RonRhodes: yep
[22:33:42] <jayteeuk> But looking on the wiki would be like following packages in CVS.
[22:33:45] <GazzaK> yeah, so in effect. .org is the "corporate stylee site, perfect content, no spelin errors", and the wiki is the coffee stained notepad
[22:33:53] <mdke> jayteeuk: duplicating things would cause confusion, I think
[22:33:56] <selinuxium> ubuntu-uk.org could also be a more 'corporate' look of site, ie if a company was looking for support or to here what is going on in the uk it would be the site to send them.
[22:34:17] <selinuxium> GazzaK: you type quicker than me!
[22:34:20] <stdin> jamesbrose: that's not been discussed, or brought up yet
[22:34:29] <jamesbrose> Well, I'd like that :)
[22:34:34] <jayteeuk> selinuxium: Yeah, I think that's the kind of thing I'm thinking of.
[22:34:43] <GazzaK> mdke, but everyone knows a wiki can be incorrect due to people writing stuff who have no idea what they are doing (like me then)
[22:34:44] <anto9us> my only objection to ubuntu-uk.org is what happens if we get too dependant on that domain and it gets away from us, for any reason
[22:34:59] <GazzaK> who "owns" it?
[22:35:00] <jamesbrose> stdin, its always been on one of my top things to suggest
[22:35:24] <stdin> jamesbrose: slap an idea tag on it then :p
[22:35:36] <mdke> GazzaK: that's not the point. The wiki is for the *community* rather than outsiders
[22:35:44] * jamesbrose slaps an idea tag on the idea to get a -uk pastebin
[22:35:53] <mdke> my point was really well explained by Jane in this post: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2006-July/000552.html
[22:36:09] <Seeker`> http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=ubuntu-uk&tld=org
[22:36:49] <anto9us> mdke, very good point
[22:36:57] <jamesbrose> And, I think we should get a transparent "favicon.ico" :P
[22:37:04] <RonRhodes> pause to read links
[22:37:41] <Seeker`> Who would decide when a page gets moved from the wiki to ubuntu-uk.org?
[22:37:49] <GazzaK> Seeker`, so canonical own it then
[22:38:09] <anto9us> GazzaK, the whois doesn't say that
[22:38:30] <jayteeuk> Who is Victor Ferns?
[22:38:49] <Seeker`> http://www.canonical.com/contact
[22:38:53] <Seeker`> the address matches
[22:39:36] <GazzaK> so they do own it then
[22:39:44] <Seeker`> apparently victor ferns is the director of canonical
[22:39:56] <jayteeuk> OK.
[22:40:04] <jayteeuk> And sabdfl?
[22:40:10] <GazzaK> I like the colours on that site
[22:40:36] <mdke> no, victor ferns is probably just someone who accepts mail at that address. I'm not aware of him working for Canonical
[22:40:39] <mdke> maybe a lawyer
[22:40:40] <jayteeuk> I got his role mixed up somewhere I think. :)
[22:41:09] <jayteeuk> mdke: Possibly, yes.
[22:41:27] <jayteeuk> Anyway, back to Seeker`'s question.
[22:41:36] <Seeker`> http://safari5.bvdep.com/0132435942/pref03
[22:41:53] <Seeker`> i know its not definative, but its the best i could find
[22:42:16] <mdke> how odd
[22:42:23] <Seeker`> anyway, who would be responsible for determining when pages would be transferred to to ubuntu-uk.org?
[22:42:28] <jayteeuk> Who would decide when stuff gets moved?
[22:42:34] <selinuxium> I think once the uk-org site had clear definition it would be easy to decide when to move articles..
[22:42:45] <jayteeuk> Could it be a commity thing?
[22:43:01] <jayteeuk> An approval committee or something?  I dunno.
[22:43:09] <GazzaK> it totally depends on who can update the /org site surely
[22:43:18] <Seeker`> jayteeuk: There would need to be some definate process though
[22:43:18] <jayteeuk> GazzaK: Good point. :)
[22:43:21] <selinuxium> if the site had releases / news / blah /blah/ it starts to make it easy to make the decisions.
[22:43:24] <jayteeuk> Seeker`: Definitely.
[22:43:35] <-- jamesbrose has left this server ("Nooooo!").
[22:43:50] <Seeker`> ok
[22:44:05] <GazzaK> I do think the .org would be nice as a CMS, where various people could have logins to edit their own sections
[22:44:15] <Seeker`> [IDEA] ubuntu-uk.org should hold the final "polished" version of wiki articles.
[22:44:17] <mdke> Seeker`: try this: http://www.sboff.com/SB_FILES/Offshore/brochures/TrustStaff.pdf
[22:44:18] <jayteeuk> It's like tagging CVS for a release.
[22:44:28] <anto9us> GazzaK, yes, I was about to suggest it should be wikified
[22:44:33] <GazzaK> noooo
[22:44:38] <Seeker`> Please post "+1" if you agree, or "-1" if you disagree
[22:44:39] <GazzaK> not wiki
[22:44:40] <anto9us> members wiki
[22:44:50] <jayteeuk> GazzaK: Joomla or Drupal or something?
[22:44:50] <GazzaK> wiki is ugly to many many users
[22:44:58] <jayteeuk> +1
[22:45:01] <AdamBagnall> +1
[22:45:03] <stdin> +1
[22:45:09] <GazzaK> dunno what cms, like my website???
[22:45:24] <GazzaK> www.kearley.net (no laughing at the back there)
[22:45:31] <jayteeuk> GazzaK: which is...  thank you. :)
[22:45:35] <GazzaK> Seeker`, agree +1
[22:45:51] <mdke> GazzaK: your ideas for improving the theme of the wiki are welcome at https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bugs
[22:46:01] <RonRhodes> +1
[22:46:16] <jayteeuk> Shit, Tom looks just like my nephew!
[22:46:17] <mdke> note that there are lots of ways to make pages look beautiful
[22:46:33] <anto9us> yes, wikis can have their own theme
[22:46:38] <selinuxium> +1
[22:46:43] <Seeker`> does anyone disagree with the idea
[22:46:52] <tsmithe> no
[22:47:13] <tsmithe> -1 i don't disagree
[22:47:13] <mdke> well, yes. But i've made my point, no point going on about it
[22:47:32] <Seeker`> tsmithe: huh?
[22:47:47] <mdke> as long as active development is on the wiki, that is the most important thing
[22:47:49] <stdin> i think we can call that idea agreed
[22:47:53] <anto9us> I'm really not sure
[22:47:56] <tsmithe> Seeker`, with the proposal
[22:48:06] <Seeker`> tsmithe: did you mean +1?
[22:48:18] <tsmithe> no - i mean -1 to disagreeing :P
[22:48:25] <tsmithe> or +1 to agreeing
[22:48:30] <Seeker`> tsmithe: Please dont confuse me 
[22:48:34] <tsmithe> :)
[22:48:42] <Seeker`> [AGREED] ubuntu-uk.org should hold the final "polished" version of wiki articles.
[22:49:10] <RonRhodes> yes
[22:49:13] <Seeker`> As this meeting is going on a bit, I suggest that we hold off on discussing this further until the next meeting
[22:49:28] <jayteeuk> Fine with me.
[22:49:29] <selinuxium> Seeker`: and present a more corporate friendly literature
[22:49:44] <selinuxium> ok
[22:49:50] <selinuxium> slow typing
[22:50:03] <Seeker`> selinuxium: It will be brought up at the next meeting
[22:50:11] <jayteeuk> selinuxium: I'm holding a month-old baby, what's your excuse? :-P
[22:50:31] <selinuxium> hitting the keyboard with a pound of sausages...
[22:50:37] <Seeker`> right
[22:50:39] <Seeker`> next point
[22:50:47] * jayteeuk sits bolt upright
[22:51:00] <stdin> there was the idea from jamesbrose, as to should we have a  -uk pastebin?
[22:51:03] <Seeker`> [TOPIC] Should we blog about how we got involved in foss
[22:51:06] <anto9us> selinuxium, I hope that's not a euphemism
[22:51:10] <RonRhodes> we just passed a resolution
[22:51:27] <jayteeuk> RonRhodes: Sounds painful.
[22:51:49] <anto9us> Seeker`, yes, I think many of us already told that story in our mailing list introductions
[22:51:58] <jayteeuk> Seeker`: I think mine's on my wiki page.
[22:52:14] <GazzaK> i'm sorry folks, I need to get sleep, i'm like half dead here
[22:52:15] <anto9us> where should the blog live?
[22:52:27] <Seeker`> I think that it is a good idea to share how we got involved so they know the paths available to them
[22:52:28] <stdin> i think it's a good idea to have the story's published, but on a blog or wiki page?
[22:52:30] <anto9us> night GazzaK
[22:52:33] <Seeker`> GazzaK: night
[22:52:38] <selinuxium> night
[22:52:38] <jayteeuk> Night GazzaK.
[22:52:42] <GazzaK> awww
[22:52:48] <Seeker`> stdin: I think a wiki page would be ok
[22:52:55] <Seeker`> GazzaK: aww?
[22:53:03] * jayteeuk blows GazzaK a kiss.
[22:53:03] <selinuxium> wiki i think is fine
[22:53:10] <GazzaK> you folks saying night to me, aww
[22:53:15] <stdin> GazzaKs feeling the love :D
[22:53:15] <selinuxium> too much ubuntu love going on...
[22:53:29] <-- GazzaK has left this channel ("awww, I love you all").

[22:54:20] <Seeker`> [IDEA] A wiki page should be created for members to post how they got involved in FOSS.
[22:54:30] <Seeker`> +1 or -1 please
[22:54:30] <selinuxium> +1

[22:54:44] <stdin> +1 to the idea

[22:54:59] <mdke> how about adding the experiences to each user's homepage, and linking them from a wiki page?
[22:55:07] <mdke> otherwise, +1 from me too
[22:55:23] <anto9us> +1

[22:55:44] <RonRhodes> jayteeuk what is painful
[22:56:01] <jayteeuk> mdke: Sounds like a plan.
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[22:56:07] <Seeker`> Hmm
[22:56:08] <jayteeuk> RonRhodes: Passing a resolution.
[22:56:26] <Seeker`> that would probably be better, as most people would probably have it on their blog anyway

[22:57:00] <stdin> ok, so a wiki page with links to members pages?
[22:57:46] <jayteeuk> +1 to that
[22:58:00] <Seeker`> [IDEA] Members should try to make sure they describe how they got involved in the community on their wiki page. A wiki page should be created with links to members wiki pages that have a relevant section

[22:58:16] <jayteeuk> +1
[22:58:18] <stdin> agreed
[22:58:21] <stdin> (+1)
[22:58:22] <mdke> +1
[22:58:24] <mdke> it's a good idea for everyone to have a wiki homepage, so that when editing the wiki, which corresponds to their wikiname so they can be easily contacted about edits they have made.
[22:58:38] <selinuxium> +1 maybe a breif guide might be in order?
[22:58:39] <anto9us> I don't see how this is any different from the current members list
[22:58:53] <jayteeuk> anto9us: It's a subset I think.
[22:59:07] <selinuxium> anto9us: the header if nothing else... makes it easier to locate.
[22:59:13] <anto9us> a single page with all such histories sounds a better idea to me
[22:59:24] <RonRhodes> +1
[22:59:29] <Seeker`> anto9us: it wouldn't be a difficult page to maintain
[22:59:44] <mdke> anto9us: it would mean that people need to duplicate material that is already on their homepage
[23:00:00] <jayteeuk> anto9us: I think a single page could become very large very quickly.
[23:00:02] <selinuxium> a single page would work but everyone's description would need to very brief.
[23:00:15] <selinuxium> i vote the linked page

[23:00:47] <anto9us> ok, with #jumps to the relevant section in each wiki
[23:00:59] <Seeker`> anto9us: yep
[23:01:07] <jayteeuk> Yep.
[23:01:07] <Seeker`> ok, the general opinion seems to be in favour of the links page
[23:01:16] <Seeker`> [AGREED] Members should try to make sure they describe how they got involved in the community on their wiki page. A wiki page should be created with links to members wiki pages that have a relevant section
[23:01:18] <stdin> yeah, a page with links to the members 'how I got involved' page or home page
[23:01:30] <Seeker`> finally (i think
[23:01:31] <Seeker`> )
[23:01:46] <Seeker`> I believe a -uk pastebin was suggested

[23:02:07] <jayteeuk> Makes sense.
[23:02:15] <mdke> how does it make sense?
[23:02:17] <selinuxium> Seeker`: i did have another, but it can wait until next meet..
[23:02:22] <stdin> jamesbrose suggested it, but he's gone now :p
[23:02:41] <jayteeuk> mdke: Cos every time I've tried to use the other (nl?) one it's been either unavailable or hellish slow.
[23:02:41] <mdke> an Ubuntu pastebin makes sense, I don't see what possible pastebin service could be -uk specific
[23:02:53] <Seeker`> mdke: I agree
[23:02:59] <selinuxium> why have a uk paste bin, i don't see too much traffic on the standard one.
[23:03:00] <Seeker`> selinuxium: What was your idea?
[23:03:16] <mdke> in fact, wheels have gradually started to chug into gear to sort out an Ubuntu pastebin. I'll chase it up now
[23:03:27] <jayteeuk> mdke: Even better.
[23:03:54] <selinuxium> Mentoring. could we arrange a uk orientated mentoring scheme with possible face to face meets.
[23:03:55] <Seeker`> ok, that was easy
[23:04:00] <jayteeuk> The only advantage to LoCo-specific pastebins, IMO is load balancing.
[23:04:09] <selinuxium> Seeker`: ^^^
[23:04:34] <jayteeuk> EDM follow-up?
[23:04:45] <Seeker`> jayteeuk: What specifically?
[23:05:00] <mdke> the Ubuntu machines are pretty hot, the load shouldn't be an issue
[23:05:08] <jayteeuk> Erm, what I said earlier. :)
[23:05:35] <Seeker`> mdke: Do you mind me putting you chasing stuff up as [AGREED]?
[23:05:45] <jayteeuk> I started typing "Or do we then continue, reminding the MPs who signed the EDM of that fact and asking them what they've done about it?" when you said to leave it till later. :)
[23:05:54] <mdke> Seeker`: that's fine, I'm already doing it
[23:05:58] <Seeker`> ok
[23:06:10] <Seeker`> [AGREED] mdke will chase up an Ubuntu pastebin
[23:06:27] <popey> evening all
[23:06:33] <Seeker`> ok, can I just check, how many people are still actually awake and listening?
[23:06:37] <selinuxium> popey: you made it then! :p
[23:06:38] <jayteeuk> Hey popey
[23:06:40] <stdin> he's alive :p
[23:06:41] <popey> sorry
[23:06:42] <popey> home issues
[23:06:48] <jayteeuk> Seeker`: present.
[23:06:50] <selinuxium> present
[23:06:50] <jayteeuk> Obviously.
[23:06:57] <anto9us> present
[23:06:59] <RonRhodes> awake
[23:07:03] <stdin> present
[23:07:08] <mdke> listening, ish; awake, ish
[23:07:33] <popey> 21:53 < mdke> I already poked popey to write the the -doc list about this, but he rather gave up after the first post :(
[23:07:41] <selinuxium> popey: it is alright Seeker`is doing a great job!
[23:07:44] <popey> I will gladly post again
[23:07:51] <popey> what are you expecting me to do mdke ?
[23:07:55] <popey> pimp each video?
[23:07:55] <Seeker`> popey: you able to take part now?
[23:07:59] <popey> yes
[23:08:04] <Seeker`> ok
[23:08:05] <popey> many apologies
[23:08:09] <Seeker`> Its ok
[23:08:13] <popey> you lot talk a lot
[23:08:15] <mdke> popey: I was hoping you'd do what you currently do on the -uk list on the -doc list
[23:08:25] <Seeker`> I think we still have enough people to carry on
[23:08:26] <chaddy> present
[23:08:29] <stdin> popey: it's ok, nik isn't here either
[23:08:33] <-- zi1 has left this channel.
[23:08:48] <mdke> popey: I'd quite like to push this for Feisty
[23:08:58] <mdke> anyhow, catch up on the log
[23:09:05] <anto9us> popey, it's mostly nonsense, we were chasing each other in circles earlier but I blame seeker for that
[23:09:07] <popey> i think i have now
[23:09:25] * Seeker` blames anto9us
[23:09:32] <popey> push "this" mdke ?
[23:09:42] <Seeker`> popey: Do you wish to discuss screencasts further now, or wait for the next meeting?
[23:09:54] <popey> now if you lot are okay with it?
[23:09:59] <Seeker`> i dont mind
[23:10:10] <anto9us> agreed
[23:10:12] <popey> ok, shall I say what I see?
[23:10:14] <mdke> popey: this = what I mentioned above
[23:10:21] <Seeker`> [TOPIC] Screencasts (part II)
[23:10:25] <jayteeuk> We had said next meeting cos we weren't expecting you to be around. :)
[23:10:38] <jayteeuk> So since you are, now's probably good.
[23:10:39] <popey> I see a need for screencasts - as you all well know.. training
[23:10:51] <popey> however making them and making them well isn't easy
[23:11:01] <popey> it's quite time consuming - which is why I have not punched out hundreds
[23:11:06] <popey> we need more people to make them
[23:11:18] <Seeker`> popey: How long do they take to make (roughly)?
[23:11:19] <stdin> which is why i pinched out a total of 1 :p
[23:11:19] <popey> jono has asked me to write an easier how-to than the ones at http://quickones.org/faq
[23:11:22] <popey> which I will do
[23:11:30] <anto9us> ok, throw a topic at me, what's needed? I'll give it a whirl
[23:11:35] <popey> anything up to 4 hours
[23:11:47] <popey> some parts are fire-and-forget like uploading via ftp to archive.org
[23:11:59] <popey> and of course it depends how complex the subject is and how long you want to make it
[23:12:20] <popey> e.g. the one with the dual booting install was complex because I had to record different resolutions and upsize them to 1024x768
[23:12:27] <popey> but now I know how to do that the next one will be easier
[23:12:38] <popey> as you know I have a list that I am kinda working through..
[23:12:39] <selinuxium> popey: Can you do a screencast on how to do screencasts? Or have you already?
[23:12:39] <Seeker`> ok
[23:12:42] <anto9us> popey, is there a list of targets anywhere?
[23:12:47] <popey> http://popey.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VideoDemos
[23:12:53] <popey> targets?
[23:12:56] <Seeker`> [IDEA] Get more people involved in screencasts
[23:12:56] <popey> as in my goals?
[23:12:58] <mdke> let him finish before firing questions
[23:13:13] <popey> http://quickones.org/Creating_Screencasts bullet points at the top of that page
[23:13:27] <popey> personally I love making them
[23:13:30] <popey> I want to make loads
[23:13:39] <popey> I have been told I am a perfectionist though
[23:13:39] --> jamesbrose has joined this channel (n=james@cpc3-bolt6-0-0-cust407.manc.cable.ntl.com).
[23:13:43] <popey> I look at the ones on google video and thing they suck
[23:13:48] <popey> as do many on youtube

[23:13:53] <jayteeuk> But reality kicks in and life gets in the way. :)
[23:13:56] <jamesbrose> Meeting finished?
[23:14:04] <stdin> should we add it to the Projects part of the UKTeam wiki?
[23:14:05] <Seeker`> jamesbrose: no
[23:14:09] <popey> because they are just some guy with a video camera and/or istanbul who records off the cuff with no prep

[23:14:13] <stdin> jamesbrose: nope, still goin :p
[23:14:13] <jamesbrose> Okay
[23:14:15] <popey> that's what I would like to see change
[23:14:23] <jayteeuk> popey: Agreed.
[23:14:24] <popey> plenty of prep - lots of thought and planning
[23:14:27] <popey> and more people involved
[23:14:32] <popey> If we could have a template
[23:14:33] <jamesbrose> Talked about a pastebin yet? :P

[23:14:39] <jayteeuk> Make it look professional.
[23:14:43] <anto9us> popey, that's just how HItchcock always worked :)
[23:14:45] <popey> http://popey.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VideoDemos/NewVideoDemoTemplate like that
[23:14:53] <jayteeuk> Gawd, I'm obsessed with professional.
[23:15:00] <popey> we can plan them out
[23:15:04] <Seeker`> jamesbrose: We decided that there isn't really a need for a -uk one, but there is an effort to get an ubuntu one set up
[23:15:04] <popey> like specs in launchpad
[23:15:12] <popey> waaay before any recording takes place
[23:15:16] <jamesbrose> there is an ubuntu one isnt there?
[23:15:19] <popey> I think that's all for now that I have to say
[23:15:33] <popey> in answer to the "screencast of a screencast" - that's tricky, but it is on my list
[23:15:36] <popey> I am working on it
[23:15:47] <popey> fact is I have a wonderfully poweful pc which makes making these quite easy
[23:15:49] <Seeker`> [IDEA] Get more people involved in making screencasts and set up a process for creating them
[23:15:51] <popey> many people don't though
[23:15:57] <Seeker`> does everyone agree?
[23:16:00] <anto9us> +1
[23:16:02] <jayteeuk> +1
[23:16:03] <selinuxium> +1
[23:16:04] <stdin> +1
[23:16:06] <popey> I have had feedback from people telling me they can't get more than 3fps from xvidcap
[23:16:12] <popey> yet I get ~20fps
[23:16:17] <chrish> what do we want the screencasrs to achieve?
[23:16:22] <popey> clearly 3fps is no good for a screencsats
[23:16:25] <RonRhodes> +1
[23:16:25] <popey> impart knowledge chrish
[23:16:30] <popey> many people learn by watching
[23:16:37] <popey> and watching over and again
[23:16:39] <popey> and passing that video on
[23:16:45] <popey> (hence the liberal CC licence)
[23:16:53] <mdke> good licence :)
[23:16:57] <selinuxium> popey: Would a screencast team be in order?
[23:17:00] <stdin> new CC licence :p
[23:17:01] <chrish> do we want to show people how todo things that they do on windows?
[23:17:06] <Seeker`> [AGREED] Get more people involved in making screencasts and set up a process for creating them
[23:17:06] <popey> :) stdin
[23:17:15] <popey> ok, so should I focus on the how-to?
[23:17:16] <anto9us> so we don't duplicate each other, we need a list of targets
[23:17:18] <popey> the screencast of screencasts?
[23:17:22] <mdke> popey: privmsg?
[23:17:26] <Seeker`> popey: Sounds good
[23:17:26] <popey> go

[23:17:38] <popey> ok
[23:17:45] <popey> I finish my current work contract on friday
[23:17:54] <popey> I have no more work lined up, so can work on this a bit more
[23:18:02] <popey> "life" has kinda gotten in the way recently
[23:18:13] <selinuxium> damn life! :)
[23:18:20] <popey> but put down an [ACTION] (whoever is doing minutes) that I will do a how-to and a screencast of screencasts
[23:18:41] <Seeker`> [ACTION] Popey to do a how-to and a screencast of screencasts
[23:18:46] <popey> \o/
[23:18:56] <selinuxium> Seeker`: popey: is it worth having a screencast team?
[23:18:59] <-- paradoxical21 has left this server (Connection reset by peer).
[23:19:10] <popey> not sure
[23:19:11] <Seeker`> [IDEA] Set up a screencast team
[23:19:21] <popey> how about..
[23:19:26] --> paradoxical21 has joined this channel (n=chatzill@adsl-66-141-255-107.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net).
[23:19:28] <popey> we do the how-to (we == I) first
[23:19:33] <popey> so we can figure out who *can* help
[23:19:34] <selinuxium> that way it might be easier to administer, get together...
[23:19:35] <stdin> +1 the screencast team idea
[23:19:42] <popey> some people won't have the resources to be able to do this
[23:19:44] <selinuxium> +1
[23:19:47] <-- paradoxical21 has left this server (Client Quit).
[23:19:50] <mdke> Seeker`: that is classic "running before you can walk" stuff
[23:19:57] <mdke> IMO
[23:20:05] <jayteeuk> mdke: Agreed.
[23:20:14] <Seeker`> mdke: It was an Idea that someone suggested, so I marked it as such. 

[23:20:37] <mdke> Can I paste what I've written to popey in /query about my ideas?
[23:20:40] <selinuxium> ok we wait until popey has arranged the documentation.
[23:20:42] <Seeker`> yes
[23:20:52] <jayteeuk> I think we should let popey strut his screencast stuff first, then see who is able to do screencasts before trying to assemble a team.
[23:21:02] <popey> go
[23:21:08] <popey> agreed jayteeuk
[23:21:24] <anto9us> agreed
[23:21:33] --> jono has joined this channel (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono).
[23:21:35] <RonRhodes> agreed
[23:21:36] <Seeker`> [AGREED] Once popey has done the how-to, see who is able to actually make screencasts
[23:21:49] <mdke> ok, I'll try this paste
[23:21:53] <mdke> 23:25:51 <mdke> I'd quite like to help you get more contribution on this project

[23:21:56] <mdke> 23:25:59 <mdke> and better visibility/incorporation into the documentation
[23:21:59] <mdke> 23:26:16 <mdke> a brief and bullet point vision might be something like this:
[23:22:01] <mdke> 23:26:37 <mdke> * Host some videos on a relatively official ubuntu subdomain, such as doc.ubuntu.com
[23:22:04] <mdke> 23:26:47 <mdke> * Add links to them in the system documentation and online documentation
[23:22:08] <mdke> 23:27:07 <mdke> * work via the docteam mailing list to build a team working on them, processes, and so on
[23:22:10] <mdke> 23:27:29 <mdke> * promote the activities via planet.u.c and fridge.u.c
[23:22:41] <mdke> good, it worked
[23:22:45] <selinuxium> sounds great to me :)
[23:22:59] <jayteeuk> Yep, sounds like a good plan.
[23:23:06] <mdke> this is an achievable target in the Feisty time frame
[23:23:09] <Seeker`> How can we go about implemeting this
[23:23:17] <Seeker`> Who do we need to speak to?
[23:23:22] <mdke> about which?
[23:23:31] <Seeker`> each of them
[23:23:40] <mdke> well, me
[23:23:56] <mdke> the documentation team, generally
[23:23:59] <mdke> and then, the world!
[23:24:16] <popey> Muhahahahaaaaaa
[23:24:25] <jayteeuk> We said before we should try and make the screencast "project" a community-wide one, not just a -uk one.
[23:24:28] <Seeker`> who will speak to these teams?
[23:24:38] <jayteeuk> The docteam gives us a good vehicle for doing that.
[23:24:50] <popey> will you co-ordinate this project then mdke ( I am happy for that to happen )
[23:25:20] <mdke> popey: well, it's your project. I'll push it in the relevant directions, but you should have a major role
[23:25:50] <stdin> jayteeuk: screencasts still need to be done in some loco teams, for other languages
[23:26:06] <Seeker`> [IDEA] mdke and popey to lead the screencasts - popey to make them, mdke to see about getting them put in the right places
[23:26:09] <popey> ok, I am happy with that
[23:26:15] <popey> heh
[23:26:17] <stdin> but, yeah, it should be community wode
[23:26:24] <stdin> *wide
[23:26:30] * jayteeuk nods
[23:26:33] <mdke> localisation will definitely be a future goal, although no doubt it will present immense difficulty
[23:26:43] <popey> what? re-dubbing?
[23:26:50] <popey> I have already had one offer of doing that from Jenda
[23:26:53] <jayteeuk> On-screen languages too.
[23:26:54] <Seeker`> [ACTION] mdke and popey to lead the screencasts - popey to make them, mdke to see about getting them put in the right places
[23:27:00] <mdke> well, you need to record the whole thing again, because of the system localisation required
[23:27:06] <popey> yeah :(
[23:27:12] <selinuxium> at least lip sync wont be a problem!
[23:27:15] <jayteeuk> Unfortunately.
[23:27:16] <mdke> that can be a wishlist goal :)
[23:27:22] <popey> i agree
[23:27:23] <stdin> re-dubbing will be more of a stop-gap mesure
[23:27:31] <popey> my Croatian isn't too hot
[23:27:34] <mdke> i need to watch some of these videos
[23:27:37] <popey> about on par with my Hebrew
[23:27:44] <popey> mdke: do you have flash installed?
[23:27:49] <mdke> no
[23:27:49] <Seeker`> shall we move on to the next topic?
[23:27:57] <popey> ok, they are in ogg format too
[23:28:01] <Seeker`> (if there is one - i've lost track now)
[23:28:04] <mdke> I couldn't figure out how to install flash on Feisty.
[23:28:13] <mdke> awesome, ogg
[23:28:13] <popey> i have it here on feisty
[23:28:15] <jayteeuk> Seeker`: EDM179 follow-up.
[23:28:26] <popey> mdke: they are all in mpeg2, mpeg4 and ogg
[23:28:31] <popey> and flash
[23:28:41] <Seeker`> [TOPIC] EDM179 Follow up.
[23:28:43] <selinuxium> Seeker`: Mentoring, I think that can wait until next meet
[23:28:43] <jayteeuk> Which I keep banging on about. :)
[23:28:54] <jayteeuk> [22:17:06] <jayteeuk> I'd like to ask if there's a general consensus on the direction we should be taking in lobbying MPs re EDM179.
[23:29:00] <jayteeuk> [22:17:44] <GazzaK> jayteeuk, we seem to just be emailing them with a standard email, it's worked well so far
[23:29:03] <popey> given Nik isn't about should we postpone the rest until the next meet?
[23:29:07] <jayteeuk> [22:18:43] <jayteeuk> I think it's important that we as a community we present a consistent vision.
[23:29:12] <jayteeuk> [22:18:59] <jayteeuk> GazzaK: When we get a response, especially a negative one, do we just leave it at that?
[23:29:16] <jayteeuk> [22:19:11] <jayteeuk> When a name goes on the EDM, is that it?
[23:29:25] <jayteeuk> [22:19:34] <GazzaK> i'd question their sanity, unless they explain why they cannot sign it (as some cannot)
[23:29:31] <jayteeuk> [22:19:47] <anto9us> jayteeuk, a name and shame list?
[23:29:37] <jayteeuk> Erm. :)
[23:29:48] <jayteeuk> OK, well that's what was said earlier anyway.
[23:30:31] <anto9us> yes, all supporters and non-supporters be recorded and publicised
[23:30:44] <Seeker`> I dont know anything about EDMs really
[23:30:57] <selinuxium> the sound of the other half's toothbrush heralds bedtime. Goodnight all.
[23:30:59] <jayteeuk> And then: [23:05:32] <jayteeuk> I started typing "Or do we then continue, reminding the MPs who signed the EDM of that fact and asking them what they've done about it?" when you said to leave it till later.
[23:31:33] <jayteeuk> EDMs are a way of finding out the level of backbench support for a particular motion.
[23:32:20] <jayteeuk> I was told by Margaret Beckett, who went on to explain that this fact precluded her from signing it as a member of the Cabinet.
[23:33:18] <jayteeuk> But it's more about general lobbying really.
[23:34:19] <stdin> 2 hours may be enough for this meeting, but at least we'll have something to talk about next time :P
[23:34:29] <jayteeuk> Stick it on the agenda for the next meeting?
[23:34:55] <Seeker`> sounds like a good idea
[23:35:01] <jayteeuk> [IDEA] Put EDM179 follow-up on the agenda for the next meeting
[23:35:19] * stdin agrees
[23:35:43] <RonRhodes> agrees
[23:35:49] <jayteeuk> I think it's past my bedtime really too.
[23:35:51] <Seeker`> [AGREED] Discuss EDM179 follow up at the next meeting
[23:35:57] <Seeker`> Right, one final thing
[23:36:01] <jayteeuk> Much as I could happily sit up all night discussing it. :)
[23:36:03] <Seeker`> When will the next meeting be?
[23:36:19] <jayteeuk> 9th Jan?
[23:36:26] <Seeker`> I suggest 9th Jan, 3 weeks from today
[23:36:44] <jayteeuk> Whoa, we're, like, psychic or something. :)
[23:36:55] <-- jamesbrose has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
[23:36:56] <RonRhodes> 3rd something in Jan 2007
[23:36:59] <Seeker`> Any objections?
[23:37:09] <stdin> it'll give us all time to get over the new year
[23:37:15] <anto9us> +1
[23:37:19] <jayteeuk> +1
[23:37:25] <stdin> +1
[23:37:35] <RonRhodes> +1
[23:37:43] <Seeker`> Same time?
[23:37:48] <jayteeuk> OK with me.
[23:37:48] <Seeker`> or 2100?
[23:37:49] <anto9us> +1
[23:37:55] <jayteeuk> Gives me time to get the kids in bed.
[23:37:59] <RonRhodes> +1
[23:38:07] <stdin> same bat time, same bat channel
[23:38:21] <jayteeuk> 21:30 is better for me, but I'll go with 21:00 if it suits others better.
[23:38:35] <Seeker`> ok
[23:38:39] <jayteeuk> I am but one person. :)
[23:38:41] <Seeker`> keep it at 2100
[23:38:44] <Seeker`> *2130
[23:38:58] <Seeker`> [AGREED] Next meeting: 9th January 2007 @ 2130
[23:39:10] <Seeker`> This marathon meeting is now finished
[23:39:10] <jayteeuk> Excellent.
[23:39:15] <Seeker`> thanks for sticking with it for so long
[23:39:17] <jayteeuk> Good meeting folks.


UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20061219Meeting (last edited 2008-08-06 16:15:38 by localhost)