This is the fifth meeting of the UKTeam, starting at 21:02 GMT and finishing at 23:03 GMT

Attendance

Please type PRESENT at the start of the meeting to ensure we are all clear who is online and paying attention. Active Atendees:

• LoudMouthMan - NikButler (Meeting chair)

• popey - AlanPope

• Seeker` - ChrisOattes

• Gazzak
• anto9us

• mmedland - MattMedland

• jayteeuk - JamesTait

• Owdgit
• Dsas

• neuro - WilliamAnderson

Agenda

• Mentoring
  • Should there be a UK based mentoring service?
• EDM follow up
  • How do we follow up requests to sign EDMs?
• Charities
  • What progress has been made with choosing charities to support?
• Mailing List
  • Create a new low traffic mailing list for announcements that everyone should see.
• What we would like from members
  • Do we need a page that provides information about things we would like to get as many members as possible involved with (e.g. Create a wiki page and write a section about how you got involved in FOSS)
• Screencasts

  • An update from AlanPope about the status of the screencasts project.

• Stands at party political conferences

  • As per mail from Llywelyn Owen on the list - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2007-January/002556.html

• Forum
  • Should there be a Ubuntu-UK forum, based in ubuntuforums.org?
  • If so, would this make the mailing list "obsolete"?
  • Haven't we talking about this at length already?
• Recycling old PCs with K/X/Ubuntu for other people/charities
  • Should we do something concerted as a group
  • Document minimum specs, share experience of locating old computers, share info about needy people/charities

  • Branding, logo's, Desktop images with Ubuntu-uk logo? ( added by GaryKearley )

• Role of Ubuntu-uk.org
  • A process needs to be defined for adding "polished" wiki pages to ubuntu-uk.org (as decided in the previous meeting)
• Delete (seemingly) unused wiki pages

  • Disc Duplication

  • UKTeamLeader

• Do ubuntu-uk want the ubuntu-uk.org website ubuntufied as in this mockup http://www.ubuntu-uk.org/dev/new/

Minutes

Mentoring Both AlanPope and NikButler volunteered to write a document as part of a project to define the specification for the role of mentoring. This was considered a role which is not particularly LOCO specific and the document would have a benefit for the wider community as a whole.

EDM A page will be created to consolidate both the existing responses to written letters to MPs and to provide direction and advice on the next activity.

Charities It was agreed that the Team would promote both the NSPCC and Amnesty International in fund raising events which may occur in the future. Both Gazzak and AlanPope would provide documentation to define how contributions can be made.

Mailing List It was suggested that a trial of using [ANNOUNCE] in the subject lines for headers on the Ubuntu-UK Mailing list would be proposed by ? and reviewed for a later date.

Screencasts AlanPope detailed the already stellar work carried out on the screencasts and the links provided here detail the work. Alan recognised the valuable assistance in Mentoring from MDKE as part of this process.

What we would like from members was mooted as a topic similar to the issue on mentoring and was tabled until the mentoring documentation was completed.

Stands at party political conferences Given the wider possibilities of mixed messages it was agreed that NikButler would approach Jono Bacon to discuss possible issues or ramifications in relation to Marketing and promotion of Ubuntu.

Forum MDKE and Neuro_ would investigate the issues relating to intergration of forums and mailists and report back to the team.

Recycling old PCs it was felt that this would require suitable definition of the expected goals and requirements before any action or agreement could be made on the topic.

Role of Ubuntu-uk.org and Do ubuntu-uk want the ubuntu-uk.org website ubuntufied It was decided to leave the site as is and unmodified in appearance.

Delete (seemingly) unused wiki pages It was agreed that the pages would be updated with TO BE DELETED before allowing a suitable period to pass before the removal of those pages.

Any Other Business No other business was raised and the Meeting concluded with the date 31st January 2007 being set for the next meeting.

MootBot

For the first time, there will be a meeting bot. The following explains why.

• Why?

Currently, compiling the minutes for each of the Ubuntu-UK meetings can take a while. It involves either searching through the meeting logs for all of the decisions made, or taking notes throughout the meeting, which means that the chair cannont concentrate on the contents of the meeting as easily. The bot aims to make the process of compiling minutes easier by recording certain events in the meeting, and recording them in a concise form.

• How

The bot will record all topics discussed, all ideas suggested, the results of votes and the final decisions on the topic. It does this by listening for messages beginning with specific strings:

Whilst it can be fun to have a bot in the channel, please do not abuse it during the meeting or otherwise.

Guide Lines

The chairman of the meeting should endeavour to ensure that key points are discussed in an appropriate time. Key Topics from the Agenda should be tabled in the channel using a market such as [ TOPIC ] or * TOPIC * Followed by the agenda item. Where Suggestions or Ideas are put forward and considered as acceptable to the group then it should be noted by the Chairman as [ IDEA ] or * IDEA * . Where a concept is discussed and agreed the use of [ AGREED ] or * AGREED * should be defined by the chairman and should signify the topic is discussed and the meeting is to move on. Be clear on the channel when the meeting is concluded and how and when the minutes will be posted.

IRC LOGS

IRC logs

[20:55] Mootbot joined #ubuntu-uk.
[20:56] <LoudMouthMan> blackcatnetworks or dreamhost ?
[20:56] <jamesbrose> I think I might go with 1&1
[20:56] Owdgit (n=ron@88-109-254-102.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[20:56] <Seeker`> test
[20:56] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAhfZUZiwSE that is fantastic
[20:56] <Seeker`> hmm, maybe not
[20:56] <jayteeuk> Tell me when there's an amd64 Flash plugin. :S
[20:57] Owdgit (n=ron@88-109-254-102.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) joined #ubuntu-uk.
[20:57] <popey> pfft
[20:57] <popey> jayteeuk: there is a youtube download script i use  :) 
[20:57] <popey> pas it a youtube url and it downloads the flv then ffmpegs it to an mpeg video  :) 
[20:57] <popey> v handy
[20:57] <popey> http://www.arrakis.es/~rggi3/youtube-dl/
[20:57] <jayteeuk> popey: You didn't get it from PC Plus by any chance?
[20:58] <popey> no, that url  :) 
[20:58] <popey> i don't think I have bought pc plus for about 18 years
[20:58] <popey> exaggeration
[20:58] <popey> 15
[20:58] <jayteeuk> I have a load of flv clips I need to convert.  :) 
[20:59] <jayteeuk> I think they made a Firefox extension that does the same.
[20:59] Action: Seeker` goes to find cider and cookies quickly
[20:59] <popey> ffmpeg -i foo.flv foo.mpeg
[20:59] <popey> easy
[20:59] Action: popey goes to get a bottle of kwak
[20:59] <popey> and his kwak glass
[20:59] Action: dsas sips his water
[20:59] <LoudMouthMan> right two minute warning of meeting start
[20:59] Action: jayteeuk sips his Milo.
[21:00] <LoudMouthMan> and welcome to all the new members and lurkers.. your welcome to pitch in on comments and discussions as they occur.
[21:00] <jamesbrose> I need to think of a domain name  :) 
[21:00] <jayteeuk> And encouraged to do so.  :) 
[21:00] Topic changed on #ubuntu-uk by LoudMouthMan!n=nik@ubuntu/member/loudmouthman: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://www.ubuntu-uk.org | Happy New Year! | Ubuntu FAQ: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Gallery/Members add your picture |UKTeam Meeting  in progress  : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20070110Meeting
[21:01] <Seeker`> jamesbrose: www.microsoft.com
[21:01] <Owdgit> Hi
[21:01] <jamesbrose> loll
[21:01] <LoudMouthMan> right I make that nine oclock are we all happy and present to begin.
[21:01] <jamesbrose> I think its taken..
[21:01] <GazzaK> 2min warning, eeek, coffeeeee
[21:01] <LoudMouthMan> 1 min.
[21:01] <Seeker`> LoudMouthMan: you going to start the meeting with the bot?
[21:01] <LoudMouthMan> Seeker` yep..
[21:02] <LoudMouthMan> Good Evening everyone welcome to the UKTeam meeting, id like to thank Seeker for his Mootbot which will be helping with the note and vote taking.
[21:02] Action: Seeker` pats Mootbot
[21:02] <jayteeuk> Nice work Seeker`  ;) 
[21:03] Action: popey pats on Mootbot 
[21:03] <LoudMouthMan> Seeker do you feel we need to cover its usage and introduce it or shall we proceed?
[21:03] <Seeker`> its up to you
[21:03] <jayteeuk> It is outlined on the Meeting Notes page.
[21:03] <popey> so long as we all know when to say "+1" I guess we are okay
[21:03] kennyholden (n=C0deM0nk@82-68-221-86.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:03] <jayteeuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20070110Meeting
[21:03] <LoudMouthMan> okay well if your happy i'll proceed with the topics mentioned on the wiki . hopefully we are all familiar with the concept of the meeting format.
[21:03] <Seeker`> yeah, the main thing is that if people have a (sensible) idea, they should prefix it with [idea]
[21:03] <popey> Go go gadget LoudMouthMan
[21:04] <GazzaK> PRESENT (as requested on the wiki)
[21:04] <Seeker`> PRESENT
[21:04] <anto9us> present
[21:04] <mmedland> PRESENT
[21:04] <popey> PRESENT (sir)
[21:04] <jayteeuk> Present
[21:04] <Owdgit> present
[21:04] Action: Seeker` hasn't got a bot function for that (yet)
[21:04] Action: GazzaK pokes popey shadup! :p
[21:05] <popey> how do we define mentoring?
[21:05] <dsas> present
[21:05] <stdin> PRESENT
[21:05] <popey> mentoring new users?
[21:05] <vyoman> present
[21:05] <popey> developers?
[21:05] <jamesbrose> present
[21:05] Action: LoudMouthMan hangs head in shame ... sorry missed that point . okay . .so back to the meeting topic : mentoring
[21:05] <GazzaK> I think there should be, but have no idea what it entails
[21:05] <LoudMouthMan> lets keep this one to 10 mins. at most.
[21:05] <Seeker`> I think mentoring new users are the most obvious targets
[21:06] <popey> ok, so something where someone is nominated as a "contact" for a newbie?
[21:06] <Seeker`> yeah
[21:06] Smiffeh (i=qbyt@80-247-20-12.cust.zycomm.uk.net) joined #ubuntu-uk.
[21:06] <GazzaK> and also mentoring not so new users in how to better offer their skilz to the userbase
[21:06] <popey> the problem I have with that is you then have a 1:1 relationship
[21:06] <mdke> I think the original idea was mentoring to help users get involved in contributing to Ubuntu
[21:06] <popey> when you really need each newbie to have access to many brains, not one
[21:06] <mdke> rather than 1:1 support, which is another good, but separate idea
[21:06] <LoudMouthMan> popey , good point and somethign ive mooted with DSAS and Jono in the past . some type of visitor host or team introduce role.
[21:06] <GazzaK> mdke, yeah
[21:06] <popey> ahh, not newbie users, newbie contributors?
[21:06] <jamesbrose> like me  :) 
[21:06] <mmedland> I'm fairly new and I think one of the main difficulties in joining in is lack of confidence
[21:07] <mmedland> mentoring would really help that
[21:07] Action: Seeker` agrees with mmedland
[21:07] <jamesbrose> mmedland, I agree also
[21:07] <GazzaK> popey, I am not really a newbie any longer, but for me to help the community, i'd need lots of pointers etc
[21:07] <popey> ah, ok, so someone you could privately contact mmedland ?
[21:07] <mmedland> yeah
[21:07] <mmedland> that would be good
[21:07] <GazzaK> a hand holder?
[21:07] <mdke> mmedland: is that in terms of getting involving in contributing, or using Ubuntu?
[21:07] <popey> well I have found the "mentoring" that mdke has provided me very helpful for my contirbution
[21:07] <popey> so I can see how it could be handy, yes, agreed
[21:07] <mdke> popey: I was just about the bring that up
[21:07] <mmedland> someone to prompt you to talk and post and the like
[21:07] <Seeker`> popey: How did mdke mentor you?
[21:07] <mmedland> mdke: in contributing really
[21:08] <popey> Seeker`: you will find out later
[21:08] <mdke> mmedland: nod.
[21:08] <LoudMouthMan> it meets he middle layer issue that i feel is necessary to coach and nuture new people to the community.
[21:08] <popey> but briefly
[21:08] <mmedland> mdke: I've been using ubuntu since breezy, but never had the confidence to contribute
[21:08] <LoudMouthMan> so what are we requiring .. whats the core question ?
[21:08] <mdke> mmedland: do you think it would be something you would prefer to see at a local level, or rather in the international community?
[21:08] <popey> mdke provided me with guidance, let me do my own thing, but helped me go in the right direction
[21:08] <mdke> I'm struggling to see the loco-relevance
[21:08] <popey> knew who to ask when I had questions
[21:09] <mmedland> mdke:I think if it were organised globally, but you had 'local' mentors, that would be good
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[21:09] <popey> makes sense
[21:09] <popey> otherwise we are just discussing what we thing it means
[21:09] <popey> rather than how to implement it
[21:09] <Seeker`> yeah
[21:09] <jayteeuk> Agreed.
[21:09] <mdke> mmedland: yes, interesting
[21:09] <popey> if someone can write up what a mentor can do then it can be fleshed out and later discussed
[21:09] <LoudMouthMan> indeed. is the action that one or two of us move to write a document on this . id help and contribute to its meaning.
[21:10] <popey> i would contribute to that page with the mentoring I have received
[21:10] <dsas> I think I agree with mdke it's a good idea, but is it really UK specific?
[21:10] <Smiffeh> No, its clearly not
[21:10] <jayteeuk> Anything already on the wiki about this?
[21:10] <popey> dsas: no i dont think it is
[21:10] <Seeker`> it may not be UK specifc, but its a good starting point
[21:10] <LoudMouthMan> dsas no i dont think its uk specific but is that a requirement ?
[21:10] <Seeker`> it is a service that the UK Team wish to provice
[21:10] <Seeker`> *provide
[21:10] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserMentors
[21:10] <GazzaK> agree with LoudMouthMan there, not UK, but it's a good thing
[21:11] <LoudMouthMan> then its a good Loco contribution .. we have no way to suggest a volunteer so I guess we need to just action and agree it.
[21:11] <dsas> LoudMouthMan: I guess not. It'd just be nice to bring it to the wider community.
[21:11] <LoudMouthMan> dsas  I agreee.
[21:11] <Seeker`> dsas: We dont have to limit it to support for UK users
[21:11] <LoudMouthMan> any other points ? other than its scope.
[21:11] <dsas> LoudMouthMan: I guess we can see ourselves as a trial for the idea before pimping it elsewhere.
[21:12] <mdke> yes. This team has lots of non-UK specific ideas  :) 
[21:12] <Seeker`> who will write the spec?
[21:12] <mdke> it doesn't mean they aren't great ideas
[21:12] <popey> Seeker`: it's a wiki, we all can
[21:12] <LoudMouthMan> as too whome I say we leave it open .
[21:12] <Seeker`> fair enough
[21:12] <LoudMouthMan> any requirement to vote here ? I dont think so ?
[21:13] <GazzaK> nope
[21:13] <popey> no
[21:13] <Seeker`> its fairly unaminous
[21:13] <Smiffeh> wouldn't say so
[21:13] <Owdgit> no
[21:13] <Smiffeh> Jay: your just being awkward now  :) 
[21:13] <dsas> isn' t this a vote? <grins>
[21:14] <Smiffeh> EDM?
[21:14] <jayteeuk> Smiffeh: I thought we were voting on whether to vote.  :-P 
[21:14] <LoudMouthMan> id like to give 10 mins to this but lets focus on actions  and Next Step stuff.
[21:14] <jayteeuk> Early Day Motion
[21:14] <popey> Seeker`: http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=31752&SESSION=885
[21:14] <jayteeuk> Thanks popey
[21:14] <popey> writing to your MP to get them to support that
[21:14] <Smiffeh> Thanks very much.
[21:14] <popey> look at the list, if yours is not on the list, contact them
[21:15] <GazzaK> mine signed it with only one email :p
[21:15] <LoudMouthMan> For my part I have arranged a meeting with 6 different MPs and Councillors to discuss the how and why that these descisions are made and how they get affected.
[21:15] <LoudMouthMan> do we have anyone here to report overall onthe project ?
[21:15] <X3N> my mp told me EDM's were a bit of a waste of time :S
[21:15] <popey> http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ id how you contact them
[21:15] <dsas> Smiffeh: If you're under north east derbyshire too she's contacted and signed.
[21:15] <Seeker`> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Mentoring
[21:15] <Smiffeh> I am.
[21:16] <popey> mine has not signed
[21:16] <jayteeuk> X3N: Maybe your MP's a bit of a waste of time.  :) 
[21:16] <popey> and has not replied to my mail
[21:16] <LoudMouthMan> Im awaiting a chance to meet with Francis Maude and Henry Smith at the least.
[21:16] <jayteeuk> I've had the stock response from Alan Johnson, which I intend to follow up on.
[21:16] <GazzaK> actually mine said he would look into it, with a view to signing it, but has not yet
[21:17] <jayteeuk> But I'd like some guidance from the team on how best to do so.
[21:17] <popey> jayteeuk: have you seen the mails others have written
[21:17] <LoudMouthMan> btw anyone can post the square bracket IDEA thing.
[21:17] <popey> jayteeuk: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com/msg02309.html
[21:17] <jayteeuk> popey: No, I don't think I have.
[21:17] <X3N> "In practice EDMs are not very effective as they are very rarely debated and Ministers do not read them on a regular basis I suspect.  However I am writing to the relevant Minister to let him know your views on this matter. I will be in touch again when I have a response."
[21:18] <X3N> he should know, he's the Opposition Assistant Chief Whip
[21:18] <popey> better than a kick in the chops in my opinion X3N
[21:18] <dsas> X3N: Sounds like your minister went further than most.
[21:18] <popey> also makes people more interested in the political process
[21:18] <popey> gets more people talking to their MP, which is a good thing IMO
[21:18] <LoudMouthMan> X3N ., hmm theres more interesting questions around that response that im not sure this is the place to go into . but we should have someone co-ordinate answers and responses on some level .
[21:19] <LoudMouthMan> popey : here here
[21:19] <X3N> yeah I agree popey
[21:19] <GazzaK> I just sent a chase up email to my MP
[21:19] <popey> Dear MP,
[21:19] <popey> Where's my response you girl!
[21:19] <LoudMouthMan> hmm do MPs listen to Me Toos ?
[21:19] <popey> Love Gazza
[21:19] <popey> no
[21:19] <popey> generally responses which look remotely alike are binned
[21:20] <GazzaK> popey, yeah, just like that
[21:20] <LoudMouthMan> anyway . 5 mins guys .. do we have a next step or direction on this topic ?
[21:20] <popey> create a page tabling who has contact and the response they have had
[21:20] <GazzaK> I vote for hand written NOT cut and pasted further action emails
[21:20] <jayteeuk> I agree with the need to co-ordinate responses.
[21:20] <popey> in a table
[21:20] <LoudMouthMan> want to phrase that as an IDEA for me popey , please.
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[21:20] <popey> with a column for "no reply", "replied negatively" etc
[21:20] <LoudMouthMan> Seeker , nice. popey good idea.
[21:20] <jayteeuk> We should present a united front.
[21:21] <LoudMouthMan> once the table is up and running write to news and media and point them to the link.
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[21:21] <LoudMouthMan> 3 mins guys. so whats the action here ?
[21:21] <popey> we can pimp the page on the list
[21:21] <anto9us> a sort of name and shame list, good idea
[21:21] <LoudMouthMan> popey I hope so .
[21:21] <GazzaK> agree anto9us
[21:21] <jayteeuk> LoudMouthMan: How will we pitch it to the media?
[21:21] <popey> so that people who have written can add to the list
[21:22] <popey> I am not convinced media is a good idea
[21:22] <LoudMouthMan> jayteeuk : um how about .. look at this ? i dont know .. its a thing for later but its a thought.
[21:22] <jayteeuk> We could be saving millions from the education budget if MPs took note of this?
[21:22] <popey> first we need to look at the data, then decide what we do with it
[21:22] <Seeker`> popey: agreed
[21:22] <jayteeuk> OK.
[21:22] <popey> if it turns out no MPs replied ( I know this isn't the case ) we might want to highlit it
[21:22] <LoudMouthMan> popey : indeed. but you have to look at the news cycles as well <grin>
[21:22] <popey> if 80% did, then that's not bad
[21:22] <popey> if 100% did then we have a +ve new story
[21:22] <X3N> we don't want to start making wild accusations if we don't know all the facts.. we'll only end up looking the bad guys
[21:23] <popey> indeed
[21:23] <Owdgit> Mootbot i before e except after c! so received NOT recieved
[21:23] <LoudMouthMan> hang on hang on .. going to the media for me is not about bad press.
[21:23] <popey> hence data gathering should be our first step
[21:23] <LoudMouthMan> anyway .. whats agreed here ?
[21:23] <LoudMouthMan> the table ?
[21:23] <popey> the page
[21:23] <popey> consolidate
[21:23] <popey> re-promote
[21:23] <Seeker`> a guideline
[21:23] <popey> within the list
[21:23] <Seeker`> for repsonses
[21:23] <LoudMouthMan> who wants to volunteer to head that ?
[21:23] <popey> so we can find out what everyone got for their time
[21:23] <popey> o/
[21:23] <X3N> it the agenda full for this meeting ?
[21:23] <popey> unless someone else wants to
[21:23] <X3N> *is
[21:24] <popey> X3N: feel free to add to the bottom
[21:24] <Seeker`> X3N: Shove stuff on the end. If we dont get round to it, it will be at the top for the next agenda
[21:24] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20070110Meeting
[21:24] <LoudMouthMan> am I going to have to refresh my wiki page ?
[21:25] <Seeker`> LoudMouthMan: It wouldnt' hurt
[21:25] <popey> you will get a mail wont you LoudMouthMan ?  :) 
[21:25] <popey> is that item done with?
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[21:25] Action: popey pokes GazzaK 
[21:25] <LoudMouthMan> popey , when we hit agreed or the time limit or appear to cricle , id hope so .
[21:26] <LoudMouthMan> sorry for cutting across though.
[21:26] <LoudMouthMan> Okay well my view is that supporting a charity is good publically and news wise
[21:26] <GazzaK> my mother used to work there, and I have seen the great and good this undersupported charideeee does
[21:26] <Seeker`> I think the consensus from last time is that charities are good
[21:26] <popey> i would like us to support Amnesty International, however I will gladly change that to NSPCC and/or Children In Need if there is more support for them
[21:26] <LoudMouthMan> and having a agreed public facing charity to support provides a good base to start with
[21:26] <Seeker`> the issue was wether we should support non-computing charities
[21:27] <LoudMouthMan> Id support NSPCC along with Gazzakk but id second AI and theres nothing stopping there being more than one
[21:27] <GazzaK> Seeker`, I belive so, as they will get us, as a UK group more publicity
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[21:27] <popey> anto9us: that subject will be coming up later
[21:27] <popey> "Recycling old PCs with K/X/Ubuntu for other people/charities"
[21:27] <LoudMouthMan> anyway wve  9 mins on this topic
[21:27] Action: dsas idly points out ubuntu take donations
[21:28] <LoudMouthMan> the point is if we specify them and make it clear how to contribute / support ( e.g. how to make payments ) then it makes it easy for people inthe future to just grab that bit and add it to their activities.
[21:28] Action: popey points out they have a BDFL
[21:28] <Smiffeh> Dsas: i dont think internal fundraising is in the spirit of what we're trying to do here
[21:28] <LoudMouthMan> dsas your right but Aunt Madge down the road knows more about NSPCC and Amnesty International than she does Ubuntu.
[21:29] <GazzaK> I could spam a load of stuff off the NSPCC's website, but it'd only be spam, we all should know what they do
[21:29] <popey> ok, so we don't actually DO much for charity
[21:29] <anto9us> popey, yes, I suggest them for support here too, I second Amnesty by the way, I'll be going to the  Amnesty Swansea meeting in the beginning of Feb if it's relevant
[21:29] <LoudMouthMan> okay since Im pro choice id suggest we vote on support of both NSPCC and Amnesty International . withthe responsiblity to Gazzalk and Popey to fill in the details on our charity page .
[21:29] <popey> ok
[21:29] <popey> do we need a vote?
[21:29] <mmedland> got to dash, hope the rest of the meeting goes well
[21:29] <Seeker`> LoudMouthMan: Agreed
[21:29] mmedland (n=mmedland@81.168.72.134) left irc: "Toodles"
[21:29] <Seeker`> popey: probably
[21:29] <LoudMouthMan> popey I dont think we do ..no .
[21:30] <Seeker`> due to the disagreements last time
[21:30] <LoudMouthMan> sorry it was a figure of speech.
[21:30] <popey> there doesn't seem to be much opposition?
[21:30] <LoudMouthMan> okay here we go
[21:30] <GazzaK> I think we would mostly support "any" chariddeee
[21:30] <anto9us> no
[21:31] <popey> looks good
[21:31] <LoudMouthMan> any other votes ?
[21:31] <popey> heh
[21:31] <neuro_> evnin all
[21:31] <popey> be lucky if you can find 7 -1s  :) 
[21:31] <popey> er, 9
[21:32] <popey> hi neuro_
[21:32] <dsas> evenin neuro_
[21:32] <Seeker`> lo neuro_
[21:32] <LoudMouthMan> okay im calling the vote to end . .
[21:32] <popey> arf
[21:32] <popey> always bringing up the rear, our GazzaK
[21:32] <GazzaK> lol
[21:32] <GazzaK> I was on the nspcc's website
[21:32] <Seeker`> LoudMouthMan: remember to use %endvote
[21:32] <LoudMouthMan> done ..
[21:33] <apokryphos> you guys herd about openmoko before?
[21:33] <popey> apokryphos: we're mid-meeting right now, want to ask again later?  :) 
[21:33] <apokryphos> ack, wrong channel
[21:33] <popey> hehe
[21:33] Action: popey takes that as a "no"
[21:34] <GazzaK> you're spelink is poor LMM :p
[21:34] <neuro_> GazzaK: don't mock the afflicted
[21:34] Action: LoudMouthMan gazzak .. yes but im an idiot ... go figure !
[21:34] <Owdgit> <seeker> how do I correct mootbot's spelling
[21:34] <jayteeuk> GazzaK: I think his fingers are just fat.  ;) 
[21:34] <GazzaK> lol
[21:34] alecjw (n=alec@client-86-25-62-117.brnt.adsl.tesco.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[21:34] <popey> What kind of announcements are we talking about? Meeting time/dates, expo events, and the like?
[21:34] <Seeker`> Owdgit: You tell me what is spelt wrong
[21:34] <dsas> What announcements have we had so far?
[21:34] <neuro_> what sort of announcements
[21:34] <Smiffeh> I think the low volume list is an excellent idea
[21:34] <LoudMouthMan> right .. 10 mins again people.
[21:34] <neuro_> snapsnap
[21:34] <popey> jinx!
[21:35] <Seeker`> Owdgit: I will fix it when the meeting isnt on
[21:35] <GazzaK> I do not understand what this "low volume list" is about???
[21:35] <neuro_> 10 minutes is an upper limit, not a minimum, yes?
[21:35] <Smiffeh> Meeting dates/times/announcements on progression of goals
[21:35] <dsas> neuro_: yes
[21:35] <neuro_> else this meeting will go on til 11!  :) 
[21:35] <X3N> the only problem i can see is who gets to decide if it's an announcement and what the content has to be for an announcment
[21:35] <GazzaK> can you not just use the ubuntu-uk mailing list?
[21:35] <Smiffeh> Am i on the right lines?
[21:35] <Seeker`> Can anyone give an example of a previous post that would be on the low volume list?
[21:35] <anto9us> I added this item, I think it's unnecessary though, I left it there anyway as we need some central announcement page on the wiki that we can subscribe to
[21:35] <LoudMouthMan> I have no idea but its in the agenda and I really should get people to sponsor entries on agendas.....
[21:35] <neuro_> or at least attribute them
[21:35] <anto9us> a place other than the mailing list which I never keep up with
[21:36] <dsas> LoudMouthMan: I'll add it to the template.
[21:36] <Owdgit> <seeker> recieved should eb received
[21:36] <LoudMouthMan> dsas ,, thanks.
[21:36] <Seeker`> Owdgit: kk, thanks
[21:36] Action: neuro_ spies a newly minted ubuntu member dsas  :) 
[21:36] <neuro_> congrats dsas
[21:36] <dsas> LoudMouthMan:  seems like a no brainer to me  :) 
[21:36] <dsas> neuro_: thanks man!
[21:36] alecjw (n=alec@client-86-25-62-117.brnt.adsl.tesco.net) joined #ubuntu-uk.
[21:36] <X3N> sounds good to me too
[21:36] <LoudMouthMan> yeah but nobrainers usually occur with 20/20 hindsight.
[21:36] <Seeker`> LoudMouthMan: Sounds good
[21:36] <jayteeuk> I like that idea popey.  I don't think we need a separate list.
[21:36] Action: neuro_ really needs to get his arse in gear and become a member too :P
[21:36] <GazzaK> I AGree - use the standard ubuntu-uk list but people should put [ANNOUNCE] in the subject
[21:36] <LoudMouthMan> popey i agree
[21:37] <neuro_> i disagree
[21:37] <popey> \o/
[21:37] <Seeker`> neuro_: why?
[21:37] <neuro_> it puts the onus on the subscriber to specifically omit all non [ANNOUNCE] posts
[21:37] <popey> no, it's just for bringing announcements to peoples attention
[21:37] <GazzaK> neuro_, the sub, would be able to scan the subject lines
[21:37] <neuro_> not much discussion going on
[21:37] <mdke> very democratic this community
[21:37] <X3N> it's not up to us to filter the list for other people  :) 
[21:37] <Seeker`> neuro_: The subscriber could set up a filter to put [ANNOUNCE] mail in a different folder
[21:38] <X3N> but we can make it easier for people to do it them selves
[21:38] <neuro_> Seeker`: and they need to get all the other messages too to filter them out, either to an ubuntu-uk-non-announce folder or to /dev/null
[21:38] <popey> how about we trial [ANNOUNCE] in topics for a while?
[21:38] <popey> oh, i see neuro_
[21:38] <dsas> Are we that high traffic?
[21:38] <popey> no
[21:38] <neuro_> i mean how many people do we expect to do smtp-time filtering?
[21:38] <Seeker`> UK isn't
[21:38] <popey> we have fark all announcements to make
[21:38] <neuro_> and you need to get the message body to check the subject
[21:39] <neuro_> sorry, but the agenda item was the creation of a new list, and that's what i'm referring to  :) 
[21:39] <LoudMouthMan> okay so since this is a recommendation for trial how shall we introduce it to the mailist
[21:39] <GazzaK> Seeker`, lol
[21:39] <popey> hang on LoudMouthMan
[21:39] <neuro_> if people want to initially post announce items to the main list as a trial to check volume levels, fair enough
[21:39] <dsas> I can't think of a time when we've ever really made announcements, I'm not sure what would go on the list that would interest people who don't hang in IRC or read the list anyway.
[21:39] <LoudMouthMan> popey .. im hanging on .. i saw your thread.
[21:39] <popey> neuro_ has a point, but I don't see that the list would get used
[21:39] <neuro_> but can we vote on the agenda item?
[21:40] <LoudMouthMan> popey : i saw your trial and neuro_ thoughtas well.
[21:40] <popey> neuro_: good idea
[21:40] <neuro_> sorry if i'm being a prat here  :) 
[21:40] <popey> no, not at all
[21:40] <popey> we all should have our say
[21:40] <popey> even you
[21:40] <popey>  :) 
[21:40] <GazzaK> i'd probably not join a announcment list
[21:40] <neuro_> yeah, even me, hairy scotsman that i am  :) 
[21:40] <popey> yeah, I'd join it to be fair
[21:40] <GazzaK> well I probably would, but I don't want to
[21:40] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ your not the only one!
[21:40] Action: popey doesn't like the idea of missing out  :) 
[21:40] <popey> LoudMouthMan: can you do a vote?
[21:40] <neuro_> popey:  :) 
[21:40] <LoudMouthMan> anwyway 4 mins on this topic ...
[21:41] <LoudMouthMan> popey name it
[21:41] <LoudMouthMan> or describe it anway.
[21:41] <neuro_> should we create a new low traffic mailing list for announcements
[21:41] <popey> vote "should we have a separate announcement list"
[21:41] <neuro_> should we create a new low traffic mailing list for announcements only :P
[21:41] <popey> neuro_: would you envisage it being moderated?
[21:41] <neuro_> hell yes
[21:41] <popey> who by?
[21:41] <neuro_> whoever makes the announcements
[21:41] <neuro_> announcements only
[21:41] <neuro_> no chatter, reply to set to ubuntu-uk
[21:42] <popey> ahh
[21:42] <X3N> you voted against it neuro_ ??
[21:42] <neuro_> someone fix moobot to spell received right  :) 
[21:42] <neuro_> X3N: it's a good idea, but until we have something to announce on a regular basis ...
[21:42] <neuro_> the [announce] idea is a good un
[21:42] <LoudMouthMan> anwyay im for approving a trial and moving to pass the topic to the next agenda for review.
[21:42] <popey> cool
[21:42] <neuro_> but it's not what we're voting on
[21:42] Action: X3N rolls eye :p
[21:42] <Seeker`> neuro_: When the meeting is finished - i dont want to crash it accidentally in the middle of the meeting
[21:42] <neuro_> and i was playing devil's advocate
[21:43] <neuro_> Seeker`: of course :))
[21:43] <popey> so we trial [announce] for ~6 months?
[21:43] <LoudMouthMan> yes
[21:43] <popey> or until feisty comes out when we have something to announce  :) 
[21:43] <neuro_> sounds like a plan
[21:43] <Seeker`> popey: Agrred
[21:43] <mdke> can I suggest that we don't do votes on things where there is a clear contrary consensus already?
[21:43] <mdke> maybe vote on that
[21:43] <neuro_> and if noise gets too much, revisit this idea sooner
[21:43] <neuro_> mdke: vote on voting?
[21:43] <neuro_> metavoting  :) 
[21:43] <popey> nooooooo
[21:43] <GazzaK> popey, can we do the announcements in CAPITALS
[21:43] <popey> YES GAZZAK
[21:43] <neuro_> CAPITALS ROCK
[21:43] <GazzaK> :p
[21:43] <Seeker`> i'm not sure wether we need to vote on it. We should vote on wether we have to vote
[21:43] <neuro_> FINALLY, A USE FOR MY CAPS LOCK KEY
[21:44] <popey> heh
[21:44] <mdke> note that Canonical doesn't give out more mailing lists for announcements, even to teams which actually have a reason for them
[21:44] <popey> I actually held down shift like a dumbass
[21:44] <neuro_> i think we should vote on having to vote on voting
[21:44] <neuro_> popey: muppet  :) 
[21:44] <mdke> it would have to be a private list, but I can't see one ever being necessary, tbh.
[21:44] <popey> yes?
[21:44] <GazzaK> not the whole text, just the [ANNOUNCMENT] bit
[21:44] <neuro_> or just [announce]
[21:44] <neuro_> caps are evil
[21:44] <popey> ditto mdke
[21:44] <neuro_> EXCEPT LIKE THIS
[21:44] <popey> blood
[21:45] <popey> sweat
[21:45] <popey> tears
[21:45] <popey> first born child
[21:45] <Seeker`> arm and leg
[21:45] <popey> money
[21:45] <popey> not in that order
[21:45] <mdke> popey: please preface these with [IDEAS], you're ruining the meeting
[21:45] <neuro_> i take it this is ubuntu-uk team members, not ubuntu members as approved by CoC
[21:45] <popey> heh
[21:45] <Seeker`> neuro_: yep
[21:45] <mdke>  ;) 
[21:45] <neuro_> s/CoC/CC/
[21:45] <X3N> I dot understand the purpose of this question
[21:45] <jayteeuk> popey: About eight hours ago I'd have willing handed over my first born after he pulled all the keys off my laptop.  ;) 
[21:45] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ oooooh good point .. I think the answer is yes .. Ubuntu-UK people.
[21:46] <popey>  :) 
[21:46] <X3N> surely all memebers have different things to contribute... we don't know what they are before they join so how can we ask for them before we know them
[21:46] <neuro_> totally
[21:46] <popey> it's difficult to place demands on newbies
[21:46] <GazzaK> I have something to contribute
[21:46] Action: popey puts a cork up GazzaKs arse
[21:46] <neuro_> GazzaK: is it animal, vegetable or mineral?
[21:46] jamesbrose (n=jamesbro@cpc3-bolt6-0-0-cust407.manc.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[21:47] <X3N> Seeker`: i think that's already in motion
[21:47] <LoudMouthMan> given the overall response here so far, and im even confused, other than Seekers page is this  a topic that can be actioned ?
[21:47] <neuro_> how about simple guidelines for people who join the team?
[21:47] <Seeker`> X3N: You mean the thing on the front page?
[21:47] <popey> postpone until next time but on the proviso that the agenda item is clarified
[21:47] Action: GazzaK is confuzzled
[21:47] <dsas> we already have projects listed on the UKTeam front page.
[21:47] <neuro_> i.e. set up a wiki page, outline your skills, etc
[21:47] <anto9us> I think we should keep it fairly organic if at all possible, requirements can equate to restrictions
[21:47] <popey> we do
[21:47] <Smiffeh> Seeker': Surely things like how you got involved are what your personal wiki page is for? Would it not be more useful to have a list of required tasks and have members with matching skills work on these?
[21:47] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ yes , though I feel thats a mentor page thing as well as whats already out there.
[21:47] <neuro_> make it a mandated action rather than an option
[21:47] <X3N> yeah Seeker`, it does need adding to with the bit about "how i got involved" but that's just waiting for it to update
[21:48] <neuro_> "you should" rather than "you can"
[21:48] <popey> You Vill!
[21:48] <neuro_> You Must!
[21:48] <popey> Comply!
[21:48] <X3N> lets move on  ;) 
[21:48] <neuro_> Resistance is futile!
[21:48] <GazzaK> resistence is futile
[21:48] <LoudMouthMan> or we send the Popey after you and after that ....
[21:48] <LoudMouthMan> GAZZAK
[21:48] <GazzaK> eh neuro_
[21:48] <neuro_> hehe
[21:48] <Smiffeh> Cool it guys, lets move on  :) 
[21:48] <LoudMouthMan> okay this is degenerating so I take it we can agree that nothing more is relevant here ?
[21:48] <Smiffeh> Yes
[21:48] <Seeker`> What was the decision in the end?
[21:48] <GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, anyone would assume I have a reputation
[21:49] <neuro_> if we already have a mentoring process, this item is moot
[21:49] <X3N> Seeker`: n/a
[21:49] <Smiffeh> Seeker': that it is postponed till next meeting on the proviso that it is clarified
[21:49] <LoudMouthMan> is that okay ?
[21:49] <neuro_> sweet
[21:49] <GazzaK> yeah
[21:49] <popey> yeah
[21:49] <Seeker`> yeah
[21:49] <popey> +½
[21:49] <GazzaK> go popey 'screencasts'
[21:49] <neuro_> scweencasts!
[21:49] <jayteeuk> Fine with me.
[21:49] <LoudMouthMan> popey , you ready ?
[21:49] <popey> yus
[21:50] Action: neuro_ waits for popey to flood
[21:50] <GazzaK> popey for president!!!
[21:50] Action: popey pastes
[21:50] <LoudMouthMan> 10mins .. go !
[21:50] <popey> Progress on screencasts since last meeting:
[21:50] <popey> * The whole screencasts site (quickones as was) including the videos screencasts have been moved to ( http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/ ). A new Ubuntu looking theme was installed, and the page layout was cleaned up.
[21:50] <LoudMouthMan> Gazzak that was so last year.
[21:50] <popey> * A ScreencastTeam was setup on launchpad ( https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-screencasts ), and a team page was setup on the wiki ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam ).
[21:50] <jayteeuk> Wow, screencasts via IRC!
[21:50] <popey> * The "how to make a screencast" (document) has come a long way and is now more readable and contains less superfluous detil. ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts ).
[21:50] <popey> * The page which detailed my intended list of screencasts has been moved from my personal wiki to the ubuntu wiki ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Requests ). There is a template ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Requests/Template ) to use when creating a new page for a requested screencast, and here is an example of one currently being planned ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Requests/InstallingMythTV ).
[21:50] <popey> * A FAQ has been created.
[21:50] <popey> * Much of the above was done with the help of Matthew East (mdke) so I would like to thank him for his support.
[21:50] Gargoyle (n=gargoyle@pdpc/supporter/student/Gargoyle) joined #ubuntu-uk.
[21:50] <popey> * We have also spoken to the guys behind ubuntuclips.org and they seem positive about the project, and I am going to seek more input from them.
[21:50] <popey> * Moving forward the project is to be announced and pimped a bit to try to gain more support and get more people involved.
[21:50] <neuro_> </flood>?
[21:50] <LoudMouthMan> is
[21:50] <LoudMouthMan> that
[21:50] <LoudMouthMan> all ?
[21:51] Action: LoudMouthMan mouth hangs open
[21:51] <Gargoyle> greetings.
[21:51] Action: GazzaK scrolls up a lot
[21:51] <mdke> good popey
[21:51] <X3N> good job popey and mdke
[21:51] <popey>  :) 
[21:51] <Seeker`> good job
[21:51] <GazzaK> Gargoyle, we are in a meeting :p Hi
[21:51] <LoudMouthMan> Gargoyle.. .hello .. were all reading ... one moment.
[21:51] <neuro_> GazzaK: how big is your font?  :) 
[21:51] <neuro_> popey++
[21:51] <neuro_> popey: that rocks dude
[21:51] <neuro_> well done
[21:51] <mdke> popey: are all the team pages ready now? Can we go and pimp the team a bit?
[21:51] <GazzaK> neuro_, it's a small screen 1024x768
[21:51] <neuro_> but more to do !
[21:51] <popey> thanks
[21:51] <popey> mdke: the how-to needs a little more
[21:51] <Seeker`> is that all for this agenda item?
[21:51] <popey> hahaha
[21:51] <mdke> popey: ok. Let me know
[21:52] <LoudMouthMan> okay my question : are you still going ahead with the linux format article popey ?
[21:52] <popey> will do
[21:52] <popey> ahh, good one
[21:52] <LoudMouthMan> Seeker .. gods YES!
[21:52] <popey> I haven't written it, but will, yes
[21:52] <popey> when we have the team up and running and can pimp it
[21:52] <tsmithe> LoudMouthMan, //nick TheGods
[21:52] <neuro_> having a howto is genius, as it makes the project more inclusive by miles
[21:52] <tsmithe> *just one /
[21:53] <LoudMouthMan> popey , my views on presidency aside I think this is one of the most topical and timely articles you could be writting consider my moral and tought support all I can lend in seeing it published.
[21:53] <LoudMouthMan> tought being thought .
[21:53] <anto9us> speaking of press issues, I know I'm back tracking but some feedback from our supported charities on any news potential should be sought
[21:53] <mdke> neuro_: the key with this team will be to make it inclusive and retain popey's high standards about the quality of the screencasts. should be good
[21:53] <LoudMouthMan> anto9us .. true .. lets leave that to any other business.
[21:53] <LoudMouthMan> mdke .. amen.
[21:53] <anto9us> LoudMouthMan, sure
[21:53] <neuro_> mdke: absolutely
[21:53] <popey> thanks guys
[21:53] <Seeker`> mdke: Agreed
[21:54] <LoudMouthMan> okay does anyone have any questions or thoughts for popey ?
[21:54] <GazzaK> those screencasts really help popey
[21:54] <GazzaK> I think of him at night
[21:54] <popey> jono has agreed to give the team pimpage too  :) 
[21:54] <neuro_> i have a thought ... could popey's head be even more round?
[21:54] <GazzaK> lugradio pimpage?
[21:54] <neuro_> feh, lugradio
[21:54] <neuro_> hashlugradio is where the action is at
[21:54] <popey> even if it means I'll probably have to put some death metal in the background of one screencast
[21:54] Action: neuro_ runs
[21:54] <neuro_> popey: lol
[21:54] <mdke> eugh
[21:54] <GazzaK> popey, lol, hehehee
[21:54] <jayteeuk> I think popey's got it all in hand by the looks of things.
[21:54] <Seeker`> next topic?
[21:55] <popey> suggestions welcome of course
[21:55] <GazzaK> all in hand, hehehe
[21:55] <LoudMouthMan> okay so . next topic ?
[21:55] <neuro_> and what big hands he has
[21:55] <popey> yes LoudMouthMan
[21:55] <GazzaK> yeah
[21:55] Action: mdke blinks
[21:55] <GazzaK> can we vote on something though, I feel a vote is in order
[21:55] <LoudMouthMan> so we have 10 minutes on this ..
[21:55] <popey> hahah
[21:55] <LoudMouthMan> Gazzak later.
[21:55] <popey> so this is like the info point project
[21:56] <mdke> damn
[21:56] <GazzaK> I so will not go to a party political conference
[21:56] <neuro_> popey: agreed
[21:56] <LoudMouthMan> popey , god I hope not.
[21:56] <popey> having a booth at political parties
[21:56] <popey> like LoudMouthMan does in sussex
[21:56] <LoudMouthMan> popey : even worse <grin>
[21:56] <popey> take along a bunch of laptops and some cds and flyers and educate the people who "run" the country
[21:56] <popey> and their ilk
[21:56] <Gargoyle> LoudMouthMan: Not sure what that's all about, any links I can go read?
[21:56] <jayteeuk> Wow.  Are they interested?  :) 
[21:57] <GazzaK> actually, in all seriousness, I'd go to one of these
[21:57] <LoudMouthMan> okay so ..
[21:57] <neuro_> LoudMouthMan: hasn't llywelyn done this already?
[21:57] <neuro_> "at most of these conferences there are lobby stalls which ..."
[21:57] <neuro_> also, all the material needs to be plain spoken and very much non-preachy
[21:57] <LoudMouthMan> Neuro_ really ? then can I be put in touch with them to get a report?
[21:57] <neuro_> popey++
[21:57] <popey> same thing
[21:58] <neuro_> LoudMouthMan: i don't know, i'm not llywelyn
[21:58] <GazzaK> is anyone here political?
[21:58] <neuro_>  :) 
[21:58] <LoudMouthMan> popey : im contacting 6 political people to do just that .
[21:58] <LoudMouthMan> Gazzak .. me
[21:58] <popey> so, tory, labour, libs, green, others?
[21:58] <popey> scotts loonies
[21:58] <neuro_> oi
[21:58] <anto9us> I think there's a danger, we should avoid any potential inference of political affiliation, there tend to be cameras at these places and people will see ubuntu and assume political support
[21:58] <popey> ah, neuro_
[21:58] <Smiffeh> Loonies disbanded afaik
[21:58] <popey> just the man
[21:58] <neuro_> Smiffeh: he meant the SNP
[21:58] Action: LoudMouthMan actually is involved in local council and politics.
[21:58] <Smiffeh> aaah  :) 
[21:58] <popey> anto9us: so long as it is clear we attend them all?
[21:59] <GazzaK> I vote LoudMouthMan can put the feelers out then :p
[21:59] <neuro_> praps debranding is in order
[21:59] Action: popey gets his feelers out
[21:59] <neuro_> infopoint++
[21:59] <popey> indeed
[21:59] <jayteeuk> I kind of maintain a website for a local parish council. :S
[21:59] <anto9us> popey, it's too dis-joined to avoid the inference though
[21:59] <Smiffeh> Popey: it is clear that some events get more coverage than others
[21:59] <LoudMouthMan> harumph I was infopoint laaaang before it <Grin>
[21:59] <popey> so what other people turn up to lobby booths?
[21:59] <Smiffeh> it is my opinion that ubuntu should stay totally A-Political
[21:59] <LoudMouthMan> but by the but <grin>
[21:59] <popey> are they all supporters?
[21:59] <LoudMouthMan> Smiffeh .. indeed.
[22:00] <popey> the conferences all happen in the summer don't they?
[22:00] <LoudMouthMan> okay so we need a action for this topic. such as what next really it seems something we want to do ?
[22:00] <popey> could be arranged for this year?
[22:00] <neuro_> http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/2787/34/
[22:00] <Smiffeh> Contacting MP's is a good idea, but i feel attendence (especially with branded stuff) is a bit far.
[22:00] <popey> make contact would be the first thing
[22:00] <neuro_> "The Conservative Friends of Israel (CFI), a British parliamentary lobby made up of Conservative party MPs, is hosting three events and running a booth at the Conservative party conference."
[22:00] <Smiffeh> Popey: indeed.
[22:00] <neuro_> ^ example
[22:00] <LoudMouthMan> I make a lot of ue of TheyWorkForYou
[22:00] <anto9us> anyone want to contact the BNP?
[22:00] <neuro_> let's not
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[22:00] <GazzaK> how about we have a stand at the pride march this year?
[22:01] <anto9us> oh come on, in for a penny in for a pound
[22:01] <GazzaK> anto9us, BNP, no way
[22:01] <LoudMouthMan> anto9us .. seriously even they have credence .. sadly so .
[22:01] <popey> hmm
[22:01] <neuro_> popey++
[22:01] <Smiffeh> Ant: just lol >_<
[22:01] <anto9us> I'm making a point here
[22:01] <GazzaK> the BNP would hang me
[22:01] <Smiffeh> maybe show them Ubuntu "Nazi Edition"
[22:01] <LoudMouthMan> right 4 mins.
[22:01] <popey> well, there are people with computers at the BNP
[22:01] <Smiffeh> dont even go there
[22:01] <jayteeuk> I think anto9us has made a good point.
[22:01] <Smiffeh> any political swaying is bad enough
[22:01] <LoudMouthMan> so action / agreed here is what .. ? define the events and define the contact points ?
[22:01] <anto9us> Smiffeh, yes, that's my point
[22:02] <popey> LoudMouthMan: and contact canonical
[22:02] <neuro_> there's a difference between displaying a lack of partisanship and displaying a lack of morals
[22:02] <LoudMouthMan> aye aye
[22:02] <GazzaK> seriously, if politics is a no go, how about the "pride" march/parade/thingy
[22:02] <Smiffeh> Contact MP's first.
[22:02] <popey> neuro_: some would argue anything but the greens does that
[22:02] <LoudMouthMan> on canonical that is.
[22:02] <neuro_> popey: i mean us  :) 
[22:02] <Smiffeh> But putting the two things side by side in the public eye is a bad move.
[22:02] <neuro_> Smiffeh: s/'//
[22:02] <dsas> Lets hit Jono/canonical up and see what they think.
[22:02] <popey> heh
[22:02] <popey> yeah, so did I neuro_
[22:02] <popey> agreed dsas
[22:03] <X3N> probably the best thing dsas
[22:03] <neuro_> defo discuss this with parent org before going anywhere near any elected officials
[22:03] <anto9us> GazzaK, there's partisan politics and campaign politics, campaigns are ok in my book, alienation I think is less of an issue there
[22:04] <dsas> ok, we have consensus on that then?
[22:04] <LoudMouthMan> dsas : sure but what is it ? as in AGREED?
[22:04] <LoudMouthMan> im a bit lost on that one sorry .
[22:04] <LoudMouthMan> lets extend by a couple of minutes.
[22:04] <dsas> I think we've come to agreement to get canonical/jonos opinion on it before going further.
[22:05] <neuro_> dsas++
[22:05] <popey> dsas++
[22:05] <LoudMouthMan> hmm okay
[22:05] <X3N> votey time ?
[22:05] <LoudMouthMan> or vote ?
[22:05] <LoudMouthMan> I dont think its a vote thing ?
[22:05] <neuro_> do we need one?
[22:05] <anto9us> vote on what?
[22:05] <neuro_> let's vote once we have a go from parent org
[22:05] <dsas> lets just run with it. no-ones voiced dissatisfaction.
[22:05] <LoudMouthMan> okay that seems an AGREED.
[22:06] mafitzpatrick (n=martin@82-35-214-81.cable.ubr08.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) joined #ubuntu-uk.
[22:06] <neuro_> note that llywelyn's post talked about a FOSS stall, not an ubuntu stall
[22:06] <LoudMouthMan> okay im allowing 15 minutes on the next one .. does anyone need a break ?
[22:06] <LoudMouthMan> of 1 min
[22:07] <GazzaK> not me
[22:07] <X3N> i'm fine
[22:07] Action: popey has a bio-break
[22:07] <jayteeuk> No, the kettle takes longer than that to boil.  :) 
[22:07] <X3N> this one could take a while
[22:07] <neuro_> i have my answers ready for this one  :) 
[22:07] Action: neuro_ eats his last appelsterren
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[22:07] <X3N> personal prefference
[22:08] <GazzaK> with regards a forum, could we not somehow have something like or even in, ubuntuforums, which pulls the emails in too?
[22:08] <Seeker`> Some people prefer forums to mailing lists
[22:08] <GazzaK> I much prefer forums, and so do many
[22:08] <popey> but what discussion would take place there?
[22:08] <LoudMouthMan> is there anyone here on the channel that is responsible for promotion of said agenda item ?
[22:08] <dsas> GazzaK: That is possible yes, mdke is currently trying to get one sorted for other lists.
[22:08] <popey> the same kind that happens now on the list?
[22:08] Action: neuro_ 's answers to the agenda subitems: no, no, probably  :) 
[22:08] <GazzaK> but I feel if there were such a thing, it'd have to have a tie in to the mailing list
[22:08] <mupparion> wheres the ChanServ in this place lol..
[22:08] <dsas> I think it's fair to say it's pointless unless it's tied to the list.
[22:08] <mdke> yes, I've discovered it's much easier than I thought to have it tied to the mailing list.
[22:08] <neuro_> mupparion: hidden in this channel, /msg chanserv help
[22:09] <jayteeuk> Agreed.
[22:09] <X3N> you can get forum <-> list thingers
[22:09] <mdke> with that proviso, I'd be in favour of adding it to the Locoteam section
[22:09] <popey> but the fact is ubuntuforums DONT have that
[22:09] <mdke> popey: yeah, they do
[22:09] <X3N> ubuntuforums do have it popey
[22:09] <neuro_> mdke: but why pollute loco discussion with non-i18n topics?
[22:09] <mupparion> weird server, too used to the one i was on before lol, cant remember it, has teh Q n L as oppose to chanserv
[22:09] <dsas> popey: it's set up for ubuntu-users at present.
[22:09] <popey> mupparion: we are having a meeting here
[22:09] <GazzaK> why are we not here http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=183
[22:09] <popey> hmm
[22:09] <LoudMouthMan> mupparion: can this wait till after this meeting ?please ?
[22:10] <X3N> and ubuntu announcments
[22:10] <mdke> neuro_: that's a wholly erroneous understanding of what a "loco" is, it refers to any LOcal COmmunity activities
[22:10] <mupparion> oooh, my bad gang
[22:10] <neuro_> mdke: fair point
[22:10] <LoudMouthMan> no worries ? join the forum debate though its more fun.
[22:10] <mdke> neuro_: translation is just one small aspect of that
[22:10] <popey> ok
[22:10] <popey> look at those forums
[22:10] <popey> exactly how busy are they?
[22:10] <neuro_> in that case, yes, there should be a "UK LocoTeam - UK" forum
[22:10] <popey> compared with the rest of ubuntuforums?
[22:11] <X3N> not really a fair comparison
[22:11] <neuro_> popey: .ar is busiest, 174 threads, ~ 2,000 posts
[22:11] <neuro_> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=183
[22:11] <popey> X3N: bet they don't have a mailing list
[22:11] <popey> heh, they do
[22:11] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-ar/
[22:11] <X3N> there are 220,446 memebers on ubuntuforums
[22:12] <popey> *just*
[22:12] <LoudMouthMan> my concern is about split or rather who is really recognised. officiall. I know whomis recognised. but id hate for it to be a negative feeling in regard community. however I see forums being the same as mailing lists but that does make me right.
[22:12] <X3N> we're never going to be that busy  :) 
[22:12] <GazzaK> the way I see it, is that if say joebloggs posts to the mailing list, it will be flagged as a new post on ubuntuforums.org too, and might get more feedback?
[22:12] <neuro_> i'd rather have a mailing list than a forum, but no reason why there can't be a uk forum if others already exist, i.e. precedent
[22:12] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ . indeed.
[22:12] <neuro_> why have the list and forums conjoined?
[22:12] <popey> what will it be used for?
[22:12] <neuro_> why not just reference each other if it's important enough?
[22:12] <popey> neuro_: otheriwse it splits
[22:13] <popey> i won't check the forums
[22:13] <neuro_> popey: it'll enable a discussion area for those who don't "do" lists
[22:13] <jayteeuk> I agree with LoudMouthMan's comments regarding them being the same thing.
[22:13] <Gargoyle> Would the forum be separate from the main ubuntu one?
[22:13] <popey> and the forums people wont check the list
[22:13] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ ive always taken a slug approach and simply allowed the wisdom of crowds. but  it quite a emotive one.
[22:13] <dsas> neuro_: we don't want to split the community.
[22:13] <Smiffeh> neuro_: because thats creating two channels of communication when only ONE is neccecary
[22:13] <GazzaK> popey, it's a way to get a wider audience, and possibly a fix for an issue otherwise missed
[22:13] <mdke> neuro_: because otherwise the community will fracture and it will be incredibly damaging
[22:13] <popey> neuro_: discussing what?
[22:13] <anto9us> what would be nice is a mailing list that mirrors a forum, or vice versa, does that technology exist?
[22:13] <neuro_> how will the community fracture?  why have the forums at all then?
[22:13] <neuro_> popey: discussing whatever ubuntu users discuss
[22:13] <LoudMouthMan> forums tend to get better LOW USER profile acceptance than lists do .. think of Aunt Madge.
[22:13] <popey> because there will be people who flat out wont use the forums
[22:13] <popey> the -uk ones
[22:13] <popey> and some who flat out wont use the list
[22:13] <neuro_> popey: and there will be people who flat out won't use the list
[22:13] <neuro_> ha
[22:14] <neuro_> so why leave them out?
[22:14] <mdke> the fact is quite simply. The facilities exist for communicating in a single place using both a mailing list and a forum interface, it should be used
[22:14] <LoudMouthMan> but one place for everything meeths SABDFL requirements for single locations for help.
[22:14] <popey> so someone who asks a question on the list will only have a ~50% audience share
[22:14] <X3N> I think that people who use the list will continue to use the list, those who are ubuntu-uk memebers who don't post on the list might post on the forums. so I don't think there would be any split, it would just mean that the people who wanted forums would actually contribute to the uk team.
[22:14] <popey> and same for the forum
[22:14] <neuro_> LoudMouthMan: so again, why do the forums exist?
[22:14] <mdke> (and this discussion needs to slow down)
[22:14] <neuro_> mdke: type faster
[22:14] <neuro_> 110wpm baby!
[22:14] <popey> neuro_: support
[22:14] <LoudMouthMan> err neuro_ see my comment before that .. because they work as well ML do .
[22:14] <neuro_> popey: so why have discussion areas there?
[22:14] <mdke> neuro_: it's not a matter of typing, it's a matter of organisation of thought
[22:15] <popey> i give in
[22:15] <mdke> popey: agreed, this guy won't listen
[22:15] <neuro_> mdke: "this guy" can and does listen
[22:15] <popey> I don't feel strongly enough that I can articulate how anti-forums I am
[22:15] <mdke> neuro_: ok, I'll try
[22:15] <LoudMouthMan> i think we need to move to  have a community conversatoin either here or at the council to have a converastion about resolving it.. again  with Jono to steer the ideas.
[22:15] <neuro_> mdke: please don't refer to me in the third person when i'm here
[22:15] <popey> neuro_: he was talking about himself i think
[22:15] <mdke> uffa
[22:16] <X3N> anto9us: already exists
[22:16] <neuro_> popey: didn't look like it from here  :) 
[22:16] <dsas> anto9us: It can be done, the forums staff are willing to do it.
[22:16] <X3N> http://www.nabble.com/ubuntu-uk-f12760.html
[22:16] <Gargoyle> Arn't the list archives available in a forum type place somewhere?
[22:16] <popey> not a forum Gargoyle
[22:16] <popey> an archive
[22:16] <neuro_> then if it'll fully enable both groups (forum users, list users), let's conjoin
[22:16] <popey> google  :) 
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[22:16] <GazzaK> popey, I've only used the list a few times
[22:16] <LoudMouthMan> right well Neuro_ your the most .. devils advocat on this one coudl I ask you to look into the conversatoin with mdke and possibly give us some can and cants on what can be done with integration ?
[22:16] <mdke> neuro_: there is a HUGE issue with fractures and splitting between the international forum community and the wider Ubuntu community. There are significant efforts being made to bring that closer, but the fact is that it takes a great deal of organisation and effort to keep the two from drawing apart.
[22:17] <GazzaK> I feel "intimidated"
[22:17] <X3N> that's the mailing list as a forum --> http://www.nabble.com/ubuntu-uk-f12760.html (don't know who set that up)
[22:17] <neuro_> LoudMouthMan: shure
[22:17] <popey> "why"
[22:17] <mdke> neuro_: here we have a perfect opportunity to avoid that, by providing both a forum and mailing list interface to the same discussions, why not use it?
[22:17] <LoudMouthMan> popey ? is that a why for me ?
[22:17] <popey> no
[22:17] <neuro_> mdke: i'm not disputing that it will work
[22:17] <LoudMouthMan> okay were runningn over on this Im happy ...but lets get to a action .
[22:17] <jayteeuk> mdke: Agreed.
[22:17] <neuro_> just that there seems to be an existing split
[22:17] <GazzaK> popey, dunno, just scared I suppose, scared of getting flamed for asking a silly question
[22:17] <neuro_> in other sub-communities, granted
[22:18] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ your correct on that.. id like to see it reduced..
[22:18] <jayteeuk> GazzaK: The only silly question is an un-asked one.  ;) 
[22:18] <popey> GazzaK: that's not going to happen on a forum?
[22:18] <dsas> GazzaK: Yeah, we'll call you names again.
[22:18] <LoudMouthMan> Steady on people .
[22:18] <LoudMouthMan> okay .. so .
[22:18] <neuro_> the only silly question is "can i ask a question?"
[22:18] <LoudMouthMan> breath
[22:18] <LoudMouthMan> go on ..
[22:18] <LoudMouthMan> oh
[22:18] <LoudMouthMan> hehehe
[22:18] <neuro_>  :) 
[22:18] <LoudMouthMan> rigth .
[22:18] <X3N> a lot of people contribute to the list but not irc and vicea versa
[22:18] <GazzaK> that nabble thing is cool
[22:18] <LoudMouthMan> so
[22:18] <neuro_> took a second
[22:18] <neuro_> X3N: good point
[22:18] <popey> that nabble thing is evil
[22:19] <anto9us> it may be worth a trial
[22:19] <popey> they subscribe to closed private lists and publicly post the contents
[22:19] <anto9us> we're not closed or private
[22:19] <LoudMouthMan> [ACTION ] Neuro_ and MDKE ( volunteerd by me sorry ! ) to give some feedback to the UKTeam and Forums on how well we can integrate maillist and forum activity?
[22:19] <neuro_> but then again, irc has always been more of a "water cooler" environment than a more formal "post, reply" place
[22:19] <X3N> as long as we don't ignore users on the forums it should work in the same way as the irc, list thing does
[22:19] <mdke> X3N: irc is a wholly different medium
[22:19] <popey> anto9us: i never said we were
[22:19] <popey> anto9us: I said they were evil
[22:19] <X3N> so is a forum mdke
[22:19] <dsas> LoudMouthMan: We already have a demo of how they can be integrated, see http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=6 and the ubuntu-users ML
[22:19] <mdke> X3N: no
[22:19] <neuro_> X3N: another good point
[22:19] <anto9us> popey, sorry, I know  :) 
[22:19] <popey>  :) 
[22:19] <mdke> forums and mailing lists are similar enough to work together
[22:19] <neuro_> forums = pull, email = push
[22:20] <neuro_> iyswim
[22:20] <LoudMouthMan> dsas . sure but people cant see it really ?
[22:20] <popey> neuro_: ++
[22:20] <popey> that's why i hate forums
[22:20] <popey> too much effort
[22:20] <dsas> LoudMouthMan: Can't see what?
[22:20] <mdke> you leave a message, people read it when they like and reply when they like. irc is realtime
[22:20] <popey> I want the good shit to come to me
[22:20] <neuro_> all my mail is in one place, all my forum posts are in hundreds of places
[22:20] <popey> neuro_: ++
[22:20] <neuro_> popey: :)))
[22:20] <neuro_> "come to me, good shit"
[22:20] <popey> YET another forum to subscribe to
[22:20] <popey>  :(   :(   :( 
[22:20] <LoudMouthMan> dsas : um .. .the point . which is why we all go round on this one. a bit much.
[22:20] <neuro_> but that's why *I* prefer lists
[22:20] <popey> yes, I am already a member of ubuntuforums
[22:20] <X3N> popey: just because that's the way you like it doesn't mean everyone is like that too :|
[22:20] <neuro_> some people just prefer forums cos they hate shedloads of mail
[22:21] <popey> they are wrong though
[22:21] <popey>  :) 
[22:21] <mdke> popey: they are working on LP integration for the forum
[22:21] <Gargoyle> he he
[22:21] <neuro_> popey:  :) 
[22:21] <LoudMouthMan> hhah my multilpay subscription has me bombarded with "forum reply " email.
[22:21] Action: popey shudders
[22:21] <LoudMouthMan> moving on ...
[22:21] <LoudMouthMan> whats the agreed/action here ?
[22:21] <mdke> popey: you have some prejudice issues!
[22:21] <GazzaK> to hide from popey
[22:21] <LoudMouthMan> because we NEED one.
[22:21] <Gargoyle> popey, there's your next screencast. How-to setup mail rules for ubuntu-uk mail list!  ;) 
[22:21] <popey> s/prejudice//
[22:21] <X3N> can we have a trial ?
[22:22] <neuro_> LoudMouthMan: the action you described was that mdke and i will check out poss integration between the existing list and a proposed uk subforum
[22:22] <popey> X3N: ++
[22:22] <X3N> otherwise this issue will go on for ever !
[22:22] <neuro_> let's put a pin in it for now then
[22:22] <popey> I say we set one up and book a time slot in a meeting in 6 months for me to either
[22:22] <GazzaK> can I have a assurance that the next time I meet popey he will not try to hurt me?
[22:22] <popey> a) say I told you so
[22:22] <neuro_> no point in having the argument if it can't be done
[22:22] <LoudMouthMan> oops sorry for caps.
[22:22] <popey> or
[22:22] <popey> b) eat my hat
[22:22] <neuro_> CAPS, WOO
[22:22] <neuro_> GazzaK: no-one can give that assurance
[22:22] <neuro_> popey is like a caged animal
[22:23] <neuro_> ready to pounce at a moment's notice
[22:23] <dsas> this is silly, we can have both of them merged together, everyone can use their own interface and we can all be happy.
[22:23] <LoudMouthMan> right .. thats a action  .. were going to have to come back to the topic next meeting
[22:23] <neuro_> especially when he hasn't been fed any kittens for a while
[22:23] <popey> GazzaK: i have no reason to hurt you
[22:23] <GazzaK> dsas, agree
[22:23] <jayteeuk> dsas: Agreed.
[22:23] <neuro_> let's see if a merge can take place
[22:23] <neuro_> then we can discuss the merits of it next time
[22:23] <LoudMouthMan> okay weve moved on can I allow 5 mins onthis please ?
[22:23] <neuro_> since it seems this topic has us all at logger heads  :) 
[22:24] <GazzaK> I am rebuilding a clients home pc (kids) with ubuntu this week
[22:24] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ yep .. I agree hence no agree .. ( take note seeer` )
[22:24] <neuro_> recyc ... poss freecycle/freeshare/freewhateveritisthisweek tie-in?
[22:24] <anto9us> I tried to put Xubuntu on a 64MB 500Mhz Tecra the other week, it was unusable on that spec, had to opt for Puppy Linux
[22:24] <GazzaK> no wonder anto9us thats very old
[22:24] <X3N> GazzaK: what ever you do, make sure your brother doesn't buy your client's home pc a digital camera next christmas
[22:24] <neuro_> popey: what i was thinking
[22:24] <Smiffeh> Much better idea
[22:25] <Gargoyle> Umm er idea... Isn't there some legislation that companies will have to recycle machines properly soon? ( I am sure I keep hearing radio ads to that effect.)
[22:25] <LoudMouthMan> Well I have 5 Pentium IIIs with Xubuntu . I went and bought some 3+ video games and will see how easy it is to build a computer for nurseries and primary schools
[22:25] <anto9us> GazzaK, but very common spec in recycled equipment
[22:25] <neuro_> Gargoyle: that doesn't affect domestic use
[22:25] <LoudMouthMan> its called WEE.
[22:25] <GazzaK> X3N, why?
[22:25] <GazzaK> my digital camera works
[22:25] <LoudMouthMan> and if you see a picture of a Wheelie bin with a Circle and Bar over it that means you have to disposeof it other than household waste.
[22:25] <X3N> in joke GazzaK, read mark's blog  :) 
[22:26] <Smiffeh> as a couple of people who said now, suggesting *Buntu to the charaties and organisations that do this is a much better idea than trying to undertake a project like this ourselves.
[22:26] <popey> indeed, it's a full time job
[22:26] <X3N> I agree with Smiffeh
[22:26] <Smiffeh> Popey: indeed.
[22:26] <X3N> it's a huge undertaking if you want to do it properly
[22:26] <LoudMouthMan> so is this just a page which describes a what to do next and minimum requirements and whom to contact ?
[22:27] <popey> no
[22:27] <popey> I would say we actively go and seek them
[22:27] <Smiffeh> Also, with so many of us trying to undertake this in seperate locations with seperate flavours it would be an organisational/logistcs nightmare.
[22:27] <popey> and tell them about us
[22:27] <Gargoyle> Problem, The companies doing this can probably make money from the metal cases.
[22:27] <neuro_> old crap machine with win95 or blank HD on it < old crap machine with {U|Ku|Xu}buntu on it  :) 
[22:27] <popey> and tell them about the forums/irc/support ticket/mailing list
[22:27] <popey> so they can get help with their manky old computers
[22:27] <Smiffeh> One second, i have a name of one of the organasiations we can contact written down somwhere
[22:27] <anto9us> are we averse to profiting as individuals from this venture?
[22:28] <LoudMouthMan> hmmokay so whats next .
[22:28] <neuro_> why should there be profit?
[22:28] <LoudMouthMan> anto9us im not .
[22:28] <Smiffeh> Anto9us: Yes, we should make a Surplus which we can give to our sponsored charities
[22:28] <anto9us> LoudMouthMan, me neither  :) 
[22:28] <Smiffeh> We do a good deed and many people benefit
[22:28] <popey> no anto9us but most people have day jobs
[22:28] <LoudMouthMan> profit is not a bad thing. .even charities benefit from being charged .
[22:28] <neuro_> i think having ubuntu-uk branding on kit is a bit cheeky tho
[22:28] <neuro_> dilutes the brand somewhat
[22:28] <GazzaK> i'm making a beer or two out of this rebuild, do I have to donate that?
[22:28] <popey> GazzaK: yes, to me
[22:28] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ but yes thats my concern.
[22:29] <popey> GazzaK: to replace this which I have now drunk http://gallery.popey.com/gallery/misc/DSC02762
[22:29] <GazzaK> I do not think a ubuntu-uk desktop background is wrong...
[22:29] <neuro_> certainly have leaflets extolling ubuntu's virtues and possibly referring to ubuntu-uk as a local means of indirect support
[22:29] <popey> haha
[22:29] <LoudMouthMan> I think this requires a defined document which states what is really intended by the proposer and gives a example or two . ?
[22:29] <popey> this does need more thought
[22:30] <neuro_> agreed
[22:30] <popey> 5 mins isn't enough
[22:30] <LoudMouthMan> Smiffeh seconded on that idea.
[22:30] <popey> bring it up on the list?
[22:30] <neuro_> good call
[22:30] <Smiffeh> can we vote to extend it?
[22:30] <LoudMouthMan> popey I agree.
[22:30] <LoudMouthMan> Smiffeh nah I just say 5 more mins.
[22:30] <LoudMouthMan> 5 more mins
[22:30] <neuro_> lol
[22:30] <anto9us> I often miss list discussions, make sure it's with an announce or other suitable keyword please
[22:30] <GazzaK> lol
[22:30] <Smiffeh> I think providing the team as a means of independent support is a bad idea, it fragments the project and pitts us against other people.
[22:31] <Smiffeh> We should encourage them to seek support from the wider community
[22:31] <LoudMouthMan> there doesnt seem to be a clear understanding of whats required, intended or purposed in this.
[22:31] <neuro_> anto9us: just look for popey posting about recycling PCs  :) 
[22:31] <neuro_> (or whoever)
[22:31] <popey> or neuro_ recycling old jokes
[22:31] <Smiffeh> Loudmouthman: As it stands im
[22:31] <popey> (or LoudMouthMan )
[22:31] <neuro_> popey: jpc
[22:31] <LoudMouthMan> Smiffeh agreed and thats consistent with prevoius meetings so I dont thing we would go down that route or shouldnt
[22:31] <Gargoyle> LoudMouthMan: exactly. I am confused
[22:31] <popey> \o/
[22:32] <neuro_> Smiffeh: how does leveraging the uk community pit us against others?
[22:32] <Smiffeh> I'm only preposing we Contact the relevent/involved organisations premoting *buntu before we do anything else
[22:32] <neuro_> we might as well all throw up our hands and say "fuck it, we're fragmenting the community, let's leave it to the americans!"
[22:32] <LoudMouthMan> SURGE!
[22:32] <neuro_> (pardon my french)
[22:32] <LoudMouthMan> okay this is
[22:32] <LoudMouthMan> denegrating .. .
[22:32] <neuro_> degenerating?
[22:33] <Gargoyle> dictionary.com?
[22:33] <mdke> neuro_: or help the other english speakers
[22:33] <LoudMouthMan> lets .. action that this ( yeah you mentioned americans ) as a needs more information.
[22:33] <popey> defensetrating?
[22:33] <mdke> there are valuable local support that can be provided without fragmentation. Face to face support is one
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[22:33] <GazzaK> so I take it sticking http://www.gnome-look.org/content/pre2/48244-2.jpg on these rebuilds is not good then :p
[22:33] <Smiffeh> mdke: what are the logistics of this though?
[22:33] <neuro_> depopulisation?
[22:33] <mdke> Smiffeh: of what?
[22:33] <anto9us> defenestrating, though we want to throw out windows, not be thrown out of them
[22:33] <Smiffeh> face to face support.
[22:34] <neuro_> GazzaK: i'd say not good, yes
[22:34] <mdke> Smiffeh: no idea, you'd have to ask people who provide them. Some of the US communities do it
[22:34] <LoudMouthMan> Moving on... I move to table this topic and request better proposition of this agenda topic ?
[22:34] <GazzaK> is that because it's a lame image, or the branding
[22:34] <neuro_> i don't think you can start thinking about logistics until the proposal is well defined
[22:34] Action: neuro_ looks at GazzaK, then looks at the ceiling and whistles
[22:34] <popey> LoudMouthMan: ++
[22:34] <GazzaK> agree LoudMouthMan
[22:35] <popey> neuro_: you have *ceilings* in scotishland?
[22:35] <popey> blimey
[22:35] <neuro_> popey: yeah, all made of woad
[22:35] <GazzaK> popey, they have floorboards of the floor above
[22:35] <popey> bio-break
[22:35] <popey> brb
[22:35] <tsmithe> ooh meeting
[22:35] <jayteeuk> popey: They got them just after they discovered that elastic trickery.
[22:35] Action: tsmithe looks up the agenda
[22:35] <neuro_> enough slagging the Scots, ya sassenachs
[22:35] Action: X3N opens ears wide
[22:35] <neuro_> i think ubuntu-uk.org is fine as is
[22:36] <LoudMouthMan> dsas .. any opinions on this ?
[22:36] <neuro_> a jumping off point to well-established other resources
[22:36] <X3N> can i sneak my last agenda item into this discussion too ?
[22:36] <tsmithe> have we done edm follow up?
[22:36] <LoudMouthMan> X3N in a bit ...
[22:36] <neuro_> building new services on ubuntu-uk.org leads to fragmentation, which a few of us seem quite concerned about
[22:36] <neuro_> X3N: AOB
[22:36] <Gargoyle> LoudMouthMan: To spread the word... I could stand in the middle of town next to the guy banging on about jesus and hand out CDs
[22:37] <mdke> it's all about the Wiki for our projects, that way other communities will naturally see them and steal out ideas
[22:37] <mdke> out/our
[22:37] <GazzaK> X3N, I like it
[22:37] <jayteeuk> tsmithe: Yes.
[22:37] <LoudMouthMan> okay no one seems to be responding im going to close the topic on agreed. not much its doing well and move  on  .
[22:37] <popey> mdke++
[22:37] <neuro_> LoudMouthMan: erm
[22:37] <neuro_> we are responding, give us some time!
[22:37] <mdke> then we can slap them with our patent proceedings
[22:37] <mdke> evil laugh
[22:37] <tsmithe> jayteeuk, are there minutes? cos i'm interested in that... damn - in future, i'll get a bot to ping me on the start of meetings
[22:37] <popey> i think this topic is just "we're doing well, we are great"  :) 
[22:37] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ theyve had a few weeks to read the issues at hand. its no the wiki .
[22:37] <neuro_> tsmithe: google calendar + sms alerts
[22:38] <LoudMouthMan> popey : my thoughts exactly .
[22:38] <tsmithe> neuro_, huh?
[22:38] <jayteeuk> tsmithe: No minutes yet (that I know of) but they'll be available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20070110Meeting
[22:38] <X3N> I was thinking the index for ubuntu-uk pages should be included/linked to on the ubuntu-uk.org site
[22:38] <LoudMouthMan> on the no the is wrong.
[22:38] <Seeker`> at the last meeting it was decided that when a page reached a "finished" state it should be transferred to a final copy on the site
[22:38] <tsmithe> jayteeuk, thought so...
[22:38] <LoudMouthMan> okay X3N well could you do that then ? unless people think it bad ?
[22:38] <popey> i do
[22:38] <Seeker`> page = wiki page, site  = ubuntu-uk.org
[22:39] <popey> i think it's a bad idea to un-wiki-fy a page
[22:39] <Seeker`> its not un-wikifying it
[22:39] <neuro_> popey++
[22:39] <Seeker`> the wiki page would still be there
[22:39] <popey> it is if you make it read-only on ubuntu-uk
[22:39] <mdke> it's also pointless
[22:39] <popey> gah, that's bad
[22:39] <LoudMouthMan> ohhhhhh. okay I get that .. ( others ( aunt madge ) wouldnt .. ) .
[22:39] <popey> Seeker`: what if google finds outs for a user and not the wiki page
[22:39] <neuro_> link to a specific revision on the wiki if you want a "gold" copy
[22:39] <popey> or ours first
[22:39] <popey> and the wiki page is correct and ours isn't
[22:39] <Seeker`> but that way there is a collection of stuff that we know is correct
[22:39] <popey> bad idea
[22:39] <Seeker`> etc.
[22:39] <X3N> i can write a php script to grab a wiki page's content
[22:39] <jayteeuk> Didn't we discuss the role of ubuntu-uk.org last meeting?
[22:39] <popey> Seeker`: just link to it from our page
[22:39] <mdke> the wiki is fine for having "finished" pages
[22:39] <LoudMouthMan> jayteeuk yes and no .
[22:39] <neuro_> mdke++
[22:39] <mdke> (pages are never finished, but still)
[22:40] <LoudMouthMan> it got tabled to here
[22:40] <popey> mdke ++
[22:40] <mdke> quick, vote
[22:40] <mdke> I'm on fire
[22:40] <Seeker`> jayteeuk: yes, this topic is meant to be how we actually get the pages from the wiki to the main site
[22:40] <popey> neuro^
[22:40] <neuro_> do we really need *another* content area when there are so many already well linked to from the existing uk site?
[22:40] <jayteeuk> OK thanks.
[22:40] <jayteeuk> Just maximised my window so I can see the discussion better now.  :) 
[22:40] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ possibly if only for the sake of SEO ?
[22:40] <LoudMouthMan> possibly?
[22:40] <popey> bleah
[22:40] <popey> SEO Shmeseo
[22:41] <neuro_> and wiki.u.o doesn't have a good enough page rank already?
[22:41] <LoudMouthMan> bleah .. sure but Aunt madge uses google.
[22:41] <neuro_> ooh, let's fragment google results even further
[22:41] <popey> in my mind this smacks of empire building
[22:41] <popey> we do not need ot do it
[22:41] <Seeker`> popey: empire building?
[22:41] <popey> there is no point
[22:41] <neuro_> popey++
[22:41] <LoudMouthMan> or MSN < /me crosses himself>
[22:41] <popey> building ubuntu-uk up to be more than it is
[22:41] <neuro_> it's building a site for the sake of it
[22:41] <popey> all we need to do is link to "our" pages
[22:42] <LoudMouthMan> hmmm interesting .. i dont see it that way at all .
[22:42] <Seeker`> what does ubuntu-uk.org do at the moment?
[22:42] <neuro_> "ooh, we're ubuntu-uk, we have a site with loads of stuff on it" and all it does is divert people away from key resources already heavily in use
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[22:42] <neuro_> Seeker`: look at it and see
[22:42] <popey> it's a portal Seeker`
[22:42] <mdke> neuro_: absolutely right
[22:42] <Seeker`> and couldn't it be done on the wiki as a links page then?
[22:42] <Gargoyle> Perhaps the ubuntu-uk.org site could offer a bit more "friendly" info. I am still confused about the wiki, planet, launchpad.. etc
[22:42] <X3N> Seeker`: it also has the planet on it
[22:42] <mdke> locoteams always get obsessed with building sites before building actions
[22:42] <neuro_> Gargoyle: can link to definitions of such
[22:42] <popey> much as this pains me...
[22:42] <popey> mdke++
[22:42] <neuro_> yup
[22:42] <neuro_> mdke speaketh the truth
[22:42] <popey> don't let it go to your head boy!
[22:42] <anto9us> I think, it's important that ubuntu-uk is not relied upon as a sole means of specific information, that's my only issue
[22:43] <mdke> I've seen a lot of locoteams, I know this
[22:43] <X3N> before anything is decided can people look at http://www.ubuntu-uk.org/dev/new/ ?
[22:43] <neuro_> build the source, not the site
[22:43] <popey> what if a page was wrong?
[22:43] <LoudMouthMan> frankly im always typing wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam ...
[22:43] <Seeker`> But if it is only a links page, why do we need it? a wiki page can be made, which people can add their own links to
[22:43] <GazzaK> I think we should have the next meeting in my local pub
[22:43] <popey> LoudMouthMan: ditto
[22:43] <LoudMouthMan> Seeker` here here
[22:43] <neuro_> X3N: i think it's fugly to be frank
[22:43] <neuro_> the existing page is simple, elegant and works
[22:43] <popey> neuro_++
[22:43] Action: popey wears out his + key
[22:43] <mdke> LoudMouthMan: I'm with that
[22:43] <Seeker`> either something different needs to be done with it, or the links page should be moved to the wiki and ubuntu-uk.org should be deprecated
[22:44] <popey> no, I believe it should be a portal page
[22:44] <popey> look fairly inoccuoous
[22:44] <neuro_> popey++
[22:44] <popey> but in an Alice in Wonderland way, it leads to bigger things
[22:44] <neuro_> samewavelengthtastic
[22:44] <neuro_> yes
[22:44] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ thats no idea ? is it ? but i dont agree. our entrance page on the wiki is very clean .
[22:44] <X3N> I do think it works well as a portal page, not everything is on the wiki and is appropriate for the wiki
[22:44] <popey> what isn't?
[22:44] <popey> the planet?
[22:44] <LoudMouthMan> X3N . indeed .. DAMNNIT
[22:44] <neuro_> LoudMouthMan: there's a lot of clutter at the top of the wiki which the current site avoids
[22:44] <jayteeuk> I think I was one of the ones promoting the idea of ubuntu-uk.org as a place for "finished" documents last meeting...
[22:44] <LoudMouthMan> ahh hgood point
[22:45] <Seeker`> X3N: What is on there currently that isn't appropriate for the wiki?
[22:45] <popey> i really like the current page
[22:45] <LoudMouthMan> jayteeuk it was .but it wasnt established how or why .
[22:45] <X3N> popey: links to other uk linux orgs, uk ubuntu projects not hosted on the wiki
[22:45] <jayteeuk> My thought being that we don't want new users coming into pages that are incomplete, poorly-written and unformatted.
[22:45] dsas (n=dean@cpc3-stok6-0-0-cust253.bagu.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Connection timed out
[22:45] <X3N> basically everything on there at the moment
[22:45] <LoudMouthMan> right well do we have a ACTION or AGREE here ?
[22:45] <popey> the list of lugs *is* on the wiki
[22:45] <neuro_> jayteeuk: which pages are those?
[22:46] <neuro_> actually, i'd say only one thing
[22:46] <jayteeuk> neuro_: It could be any, I don't have specific examples right now.
[22:46] <neuro_> there just needs to be a quick "what is ubuntu" para at the top
[22:46] <neuro_> linking to ubuntu.coms definition
[22:46] <LoudMouthMan> okay im going to bring a topic forward since its actually relevant
[22:46] <Seeker`> X3N: Why are off site links not suitable for the wiki?
[22:46] <popey> neuro_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Scotland
[22:46] <LoudMouthMan> Do ubuntu-uk want to be more like as follows .http://www.ubuntu-uk.org/dev/new/
[22:46] <jayteeuk> But in a page's early development, a lot of information gets thrown onto a page and not necessarily in the best way.
[22:46] <neuro_> LoudMouthMan: disagree
[22:47] <popey> neuro_++
[22:47] <neuro_> popey: i really should be in there, eh  :) 
[22:47] <popey> vote for status quo
[22:47] <popey> yes  :) 
[22:47] <LoudMouthMan> hmm good point .. hang on
[22:47] <tsmithe> hmm
[22:47] Action: tsmithe thinks
[22:48] <GazzaK> it was difficult to make that choice
[22:48] <Seeker`> closest vote of the night
[22:48] <Gargoyle> hmmm
[22:48] <popey> this system works, well done Seeker`
[22:48] <LoudMouthMan> indeed ..
[22:48] <popey> bah
[22:48] <popey> i hate it
[22:48] <popey> get rid Seeker`
[22:48] <popey>  :) 
[22:48] <LoudMouthMan> ill leave that vote open for a minute . more.
[22:49] <X3N> I can't decide  :) 
[22:49] Action: popey pokes X3N 
[22:49] <popey> hah
[22:49] <LoudMouthMan> because its a site peopl have to go view .
[22:49] <X3N> i put work into both bits
[22:49] <GazzaK> and no nick changing popey
[22:49] <Gargoyle> Actually... can I change vote
[22:49] <jayteeuk> It's a tough one.  :) 
[22:49] <Gargoyle> D'oh.
[22:49] <X3N> but.. i don't think the new one is as intuative for people looking up ubuntu-uk
[22:49] <LoudMouthMan> Gargoyle .. hmm good point . i think no is a good answer be patient with a vote.
[22:49] <Gargoyle> I just thought, it might get confusing between the wiki and the site!
[22:50] <neuro_> tsmithe: you've already voted
[22:50] qbyt (i=qbyt@80-247-19-213.cust.zycomm.uk.net) joined #ubuntu-uk.
[22:50] <tsmithe> neuro_, i feel strongly  ;) 
[22:50] Action: neuro_ lights up another fine Altria product
[22:50] <popey> qbyt: say -1
[22:50] <LoudMouthMan> and it ignored him anyway .
[22:50] <GazzaK> talk about a hung vote
[22:50] <neuro_> tsmithe: one nick, one vote  :) 
[22:50] <GazzaK> and popey thats cheating
[22:50] <LoudMouthMan> hmmm Gazzak we could but it requires a topic.
[22:50] <LoudMouthMan> okay anyone else.?
[22:51] <neuro_> status quo
[22:51] <tsmithe> neuro_, i know  ;) 
[22:51] <GazzaK> lol
[22:51] <qbyt> Its Smiffeh here, got D/C'd >_<
[22:51] <X3N> ><
[22:51] some_random_guy (n=alan@84-45-197-14.no-dns-yet.enta.net) joined #ubuntu-uk.
[22:51] <qbyt> what were we voting on again? i can tiebreak?
[22:51] <neuro_> get a real ISP :))
[22:51] some_random_guy (n=alan@84-45-197-14.no-dns-yet.enta.net) left irc: Client Quit
[22:51] Action: neuro_ larts popey
[22:51] <popey> heh
[22:51] <LoudMouthMan> so .um .
[22:51] <neuro_> SOCKPUPPET!
[22:51] <qbyt> i have one, its just my cheapass router!
[22:51] <GazzaK> @pity 10 popey
[22:51] Action: Ubugtu holds popey to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails
[22:51] <X3N> vote is closed..
[22:51] Action: qbyt whines pathetically.
[22:51] <neuro_> qbyt: get a man's router then  :) 
[22:51] <X3N> we could vote again, as a few people changed their minds ?
[22:52] Action: neuro_ hugs his zyxel + smoothwall
[22:52] <LoudMouthMan> action or agreed here people it seems we dont want a change on the site.
[22:52] <popey> ooo zyxel
[22:52] <popey> nice
[22:52] <neuro_> popey: $ex_employer freebie
[22:52] <Gargoyle> agreed
[22:52] <popey> i should blog about the zyxel i put in for father in law
[22:52] <LoudMouthMan> and we dont want to alter the .org content much than it is ?
[22:52] <neuro_> the vote failed
[22:52] <LoudMouthMan> neuro_ well spotted.
[22:52] <popey> the vote process succeeded
[22:53] <neuro_> but i'd like to propose what i said above re what is ubuntu
[22:53] <qbyt> if i had my vote i'd say keep it as it is
[22:53] <popey> hate the player
[22:53] <popey> don't hate the game
[22:53] <LoudMouthMan> it succeeded since not enough votes carried it to yes.
[22:53] <LoudMouthMan> qbyt .. then you have your vote .. its staying as is.
[22:53] <neuro_> semantics
[22:53] <neuro_> AOB
[22:53] <neuro_>  :) 
[22:53] <qbyt> Excellent  :) 
[22:53] <LoudMouthMan> not quite .. last topic ..
[22:53] <neuro_> ook
[22:53] <neuro_> soz  :) 
[22:53] <neuro_> popey: cheers for the heads up re scotland wiki page
[22:53] <popey> np
[22:54] <neuro_> yeah
[22:54] <neuro_> one of those is mine :P
[22:54] <LoudMouthMan> now my view is that this is just move them to long term page.
[22:54] <neuro_> i set up the disc dup page thinking others would populate it
[22:54] <anto9us> yes, flag them for deletion first
[22:54] <LoudMouthMan> they are valid but more info pages based than project based.
[22:54] <neuro_> UKTeamLeader doesn't exist
[22:54] <popey> put ToBeDeleted at the top
[22:54] <LoudMouthMan> anto9us do you want to post this as idea ?
[22:54] <popey> then delete after N days
[22:55] <neuro_> agreed
[22:55] <neuro_> there's been no interest in the disc dup thing
[22:55] <LoudMouthMan> thanks.
[22:55] <popey> ++
[22:55] <LoudMouthMan> okay any other comments on that ?
[22:55] <X3N> good idea
[22:55] <mdke> check for links before deleting pages by clicking on the page title
[22:56] <X3N> also make sure people CATEGORISE !
[22:56] <LoudMouthMan> mkde can you phrase that as IDEA forme .
[22:56] <LoudMouthMan> X3N you toplease.
[22:56] <LoudMouthMan> seems petty but I can pick it up i nthe minutes later.
[22:56] <X3N> it was just a note
[22:56] <LoudMouthMan> it was a good one.
[22:57] <Gargoyle> mdke, How. That just returned 0 results for the Team leader page, even though it is linked from the meeting agenda.
[22:57] <LoudMouthMan> is that okay ?
[22:57] <LoudMouthMan> thanks ...
[22:57] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamLeader
[22:57] <popey> the page is wrong
[22:57] <popey> it's not https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/UKTeamLeader
[22:57] <LoudMouthMan> yes it lacks our names.
[22:57] <LoudMouthMan> moving on ....
[22:58] <Gargoyle> ahh
[22:58] <mdke> Gargoyle: likely that the link is not in compliant with wiki policy either
[22:58] <mdke> *ce
[22:58] <GazzaK> i'm off to bed, I feel like i'm about to pass out, night all, good meeting  :-) 
[22:59] <X3N> good night GazzaK
[22:59] <LoudMouthMan> we have 10 mins and then im closing the meeting .
[22:59] <neuro_> X3N: you're up
[22:59] <X3N> neuro_: ?
[22:59] <LoudMouthMan> antous . agreed and its inthe to do .
[22:59] <GazzaK> popey, meeting, a fortnight?  same time same place?
[22:59] <LoudMouthMan> popey : sarcasm will get you everywhere .. its noted for 23:08
[23:00] Smiffeh (i=qbyt@80-247-20-12.cust.zycomm.uk.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[23:00] <LoudMouthMan> X3N whats yours ?
[23:00] <Seeker`> 3 weeks seems to be a good time between meetings
[23:00] GazzaK (n=Gary@unaffiliated/GazzaK) left irc: "GazzaK | car > ~/"
[23:00] <LoudMouthMan> Seeker indeed.
[23:00] <LoudMouthMan> X3N .. NEXT!
[23:00] <X3N> it was the, wheather to change the .org site design or not
[23:00] <neuro_> X3N: sorry, thought you have AOB
[23:00] <neuro_> s/have/had/
[23:00] <X3N> i sneaked it in with the other .org agenda item  :) 
[23:00] <LoudMouthMan> X3N oh .. okay .. then . .um no .. but thanks.
[23:01] <neuro_> ah, you did
[23:01] <LoudMouthMan> Cool well is there any other business ?
[23:01] <X3N> cunning like a fox
[23:01] <Seeker`> So what date is the next meeting?
[23:01] <LoudMouthMan> 31st January ? or earlier ?
[23:01] <jayteeuk> I was going to congratulate dsas, but he's left.
[23:01] <Seeker`> 30th
[23:01] <Seeker`> Tuesday is better
[23:02] <Gargoyle> night all.
[23:02] <LoudMouthMan> im okay with 30th .
[23:02] <LoudMouthMan> okay well can we agree 30th ?
[23:02] <Seeker`> yep
[23:02] <X3N> no one likes mondays, 30th is good
[23:02] <LoudMouthMan> im not putting it to the vote ...
[23:02] <jayteeuk> No other meetings that day?
[23:02] <anto9us> Tuesday not good for me
[23:02] <jayteeuk> We don't want another clash.  :) 
[23:02] <LoudMouthMan> Seeker can we goto 31st?
[23:02] <anto9us> I'm starting back at Aikido, won't be back till about 10pm
[23:03] <popey> well, that was a great meeting
[23:03] <popey> well done everyone
[23:03] <LoudMouthMan> Seeker ?
[23:03] <Seeker`> LoudMouthMan: sure
[23:03] <Gargoyle> I'll try and remember about the next one!  ;) 
[23:03] <anto9us> agreed, very good
[23:03] <LoudMouthMan> okay 31st it is ..

CategoryUKTeam