20110919

Meeting started by ara at 15:02:41 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-19-15.02.log.html .

Meeting summary

  • Feedback priorities

LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback (ara, 15:04:26) LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback (ara, 15:05:26) LINK: http://launchpad.net/bugs/283929 (brendand, 15:17:33)

Meeting ended at 16:07:45 UTC.

Votes

Action items

  • (none)

People present (lines said)

  • ara (145)
  • victorp (75)
  • brendand (33)
  • roadmr (31)
  • bladernr (26)
  • akgraner (4)
  • ubottu (3)
  • meetingology (3)
  • jedimike (3)

Full Log

  • 15:02:41 <ara> #startmeeting

    15:02:41 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 19 15:02:41 2011 UTC. The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.

    15:02:41 <meetingology>

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    15:03:00 <ara> Agenda:

    15:03:08 <ara> Feedback priorities

    15:03:08 <ara> AOB

    15:03:21 <ara> #topic Feedback priorities

    15:03:47 <ara> First of all, thanks to all that provided feedback

    15:04:13 <ara> I am sure I missed some of the points, so let's try to cover what we have and add more if we can remember some more

    15:04:25 <ara> the list so far is at:

    15:04:26 <ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback

    15:04:37 <ara> We are the final sprint for Oneiric and we have to be careful to make the best decisions. For the feedback that we are receiving for UF there let's try to come up with a solution for each of it.

    15:04:51 <ara> Possible solutions

    15:04:52 <ara> * 0.12.8

    15:04:52 <ara> * PPA

    15:04:52 <ara> * Won't Fix

    15:04:52 <ara> * Remove test

    15:05:08 <ara> 0.12.8 is due in a couple of weeks and it will probably be the last checkbox release in Oneiric, PPA is the rewrite of checkbox that we are developing and that will be released as a PPA, Won't Fix and Remove test are clear enough Wink ;-)

    15:05:26 <ara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback

    15:05:54 <ara> So, going one by one

    15:06:00 <ara> 1. Superuser warning should appear at the beginning

    15:06:15 <roadmr> o/

    15:06:22 <ara> roadmr, go ahead

    15:06:52 <roadmr> there's currently a known bug in checkbox where it skips the welcome and test selection screens, goes directly into the tests

    15:07:13 <brendand> o/

    15:07:17 <ara> roadmr, can we have the bug number, please?

    15:07:19 <roadmr> this exacerbates the problem observed, once the bug is fixed, we could add the warning in the welcome screen's text

    15:07:30 <roadmr> sure: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/852204

    15:07:31 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 852204 in checkbox "Test selection screen does not appear" [Undecided,Confirmed]

    15:07:32 <roadmr> ..

    15:08:06 <ara> brendand,

    15:08:54 <brendand> i don't think this should be a high priority. you could argue that putting it before the welcome screen would be more confusing

    15:08:56 <brendand> ..

    15:09:15 <ara> o/

    15:09:28 <ara> brendand, yes, I think the real problem is the bug for the welcome screen, not the message

    15:09:44 <ara> so I think the solution would be to fix that bug for 0.12.8

    15:09:59 <ara> ..

    15:10:26 <brendand> definitely

    15:10:29 <victorp> o/

    15:10:37 <ara> victorp, go ahead

    15:10:43 <victorp> can we triage that bug

    15:10:49 <ara> victorp, I just did Wink ;-)

    15:10:56 <victorp> hehe ...

    15:11:19 <ara> cool, one off

    15:11:28 <ara> 2. mem_test is crashing for many users

    15:11:44 <ara> The value of this test is very arguable

    15:12:14 <ara> my suggestion would be to raise a bug about it and to remove the test

    15:12:24 <victorp> bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/853799

    15:12:26 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 853799 in checkbox "remove memory test from ubuntu friendly whitelist (default)" [Critical,Confirmed]

    15:12:30 <brendand> o/

    15:12:45 <ara> victorp, thanks Wink ;-)

    15:12:47 <ara> brendand,

    15:13:46 <brendand> i think there is value in checking if the RAM in the system is usable but i don't think this test is going about it in a way that suits the needs of the ubuntu friendly program

    15:14:26 <brendand> removing it is an okay short term solution though

    15:14:28 <brendand> ...

    15:14:45 <ara> brendand, cool, milestoned as well, thanks

    15:14:59 <ara> Moving to the next one

    15:15:07 <ara> 3. when a test moves from interactive to non-interactive, the test information should be updated.

    15:15:16 <ara> I am sure that there is a old bug about this

    15:15:35 <ara> did anyone try to find it?

    15:16:14 <roadmr> o/

    15:16:23 <ara> roadmr, you go

    15:16:32 <brendand> o/

    15:16:35 <roadmr> The bug doesn't ring a bell, though we'd have to go look at old bugs, there aren't that many so if it's there we should find it

    15:16:53 <roadmr> We do need to improve our progress indication when non-interactive tests are running

    15:17:09 <roadmr> we'd have to look at the amount of work (mainly in the gtk interface) to make this less confusing

    15:17:12 <roadmr> ..

    15:17:18 <ara> thanks

    15:17:22 <ara> brendand, your turn

    15:17:22 <victorp> o/

    15:17:32 <brendand> nearly 3 years old to be precise...

    15:17:33 <brendand> http://launchpad.net/bugs/283929

    15:17:34 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 283929 in checkbox "Answer from previous question is shown while automated tests are run" [Low,Triaged]

    15:18:01 <brendand> ..

    15:18:14 <ara> brendand, thanks!

    15:18:17 <ara> victorp, you go now

    15:18:53 <victorp> seems that this is a gui thing... if we are going to rewrite the UI seems better to fix it then

    15:19:01 <brendand> o/

    15:19:03 <victorp> unless is a blocker

    15:19:05 <victorp> ..

    15:19:22 <ara> I don't think it is a blocker, I would vote to fix it in the PPA

    15:19:26 <ara> brendand 15:20:05 * victorp wonders if we can create a milestone for that

    15:20:09 <akgraner> o/

    15:20:15 <brendand> i'd say PPA too. the controls are disabled while the automated test is running so even if it is confusing, there's no scope for the user to do anything wrong.

    15:20:16 <brendand> ...

    15:20:32 <ara> akgraner, you go

    15:20:51 <akgraner> If you fix it in a ppa will end users know how to update easily?

    15:21:23 <akgraner> I don't use PPA that much

    15:21:24 <akgraner> ...

    15:21:27 <ara> o/

    15:21:39 <victorp> ara - can we stop calling it a ppa and say 12.04 instead

    15:21:45 <victorp> oops o/

    15:21:47 <victorp> Smile :)

    15:22:08 <victorp> ..

    15:22:09 <ara> The so-called ppa is intended to be a "nicer" checkbox that will be released in P

    15:22:30 <ara> so, yes, we can call it something else Smile :)

    15:22:32 <ara> ..

    15:22:43 <ara> (not sure if 12.04 is the best way to call it, though)

    15:24:24 <ara> akgraner, the default checkbox will be usable and we will let people know how to upgrade if the want to use the fancy one

    15:24:27 <ara> ..

    15:24:43 <ara> next one

    15:24:49 <ara> 4. graphics/resolution test failed with a dual monitor set up

    15:25:07 <brendand> o/

    15:25:13 <ara> brendand, go ahead

    15:25:25 <brendand> is there a bug? has anyone confirmed this?

    15:25:32 <brendand> ...

    15:25:53 <ara> brendand, this is coming from Carlos, but I am not sure if he raised a bug

    15:26:13 <ara> so the first action here would be to confirm it and raise a bug Wink ;-)

    15:26:47 <ara> but if we confirm it I would vote to fix it in Oneiric

    15:26:48 <victorp> o/

    15:26:52 <ara> victorp, go

    15:27:07 <victorp> I would think then as Carlos to do so and move on

    15:27:09 <victorp> ..

    15:27:14 <brendand> o/

    15:27:18 <victorp> s/as/ask/

    15:27:19 <ara> brendand

    15:27:43 <brendand> i did just check and it is confirmable (you get two lines with an * instead of one)

    15:28:00 <brendand> as victorp said, ping hggdh to raise a bug and then deal with it

    15:28:13 <brendand> which i think should be in 0.12.8

    15:28:33 <brendand> since i imagine a lot of people will run with a display connected

    15:28:36 <brendand> ...

    15:28:44 <ara> OK, let's do that then

    15:28:46 <ara> Next one

    15:28:48 <ara> 5. suspend/resume should warn the user that it might fail

    15:29:19 <ara> I think the test already warns the user, doesn't it?

    15:29:28 <brendand> o/

    15:29:37 <roadmr> o/

    15:30:02 <ara> brendand, go

    15:30:18 <brendand> i don't think so 15:30:20 * brendand checks

    15:30:31 <ara> roadmr, ?

    15:30:42 <roadmr> from the test description: "If your system fails to wake at all and must be rebooted,

    15:30:45 <roadmr> restart System Testing after reboot and mark this test as Failed."

    15:30:52 <brendand> a little bit. could be clearer

    15:31:12 <roadmr> yep, not sure how changing a test description at this point affects things. Well that's all I had on this test.

    15:31:15 <roadmr> ..

    15:31:38 <ara> o/

    15:31:45 <bladernr> o/

    15:31:45 <ara> I think for Oneiric is good enough

    15:31:48 <ara> ..

    15:31:49 <ara> bladernr, go

    15:32:16 <bladernr> was just going to say that changing the actual test descriptions would require a translation change, and thus an exception pushed through at this point...

    15:32:22 <bladernr> at least that's my understanding of it

    15:32:22 <bladernr> ...

    15:32:43 <ara> o/

    15:32:47 <ara> Yes I think that's the case

    15:33:00 <ara> I think we can mark this one as "won't fix"

    15:33:04 <ara> ..

    15:33:40 <ara> Cool, next one

    15:33:43 <ara> 6. ftp test is not working

    15:33:51 <victorp> o/

    15:33:57 <ara> victorp, go ahead Smile :)

    15:34:03 <victorp> ftp test!!! realy?

    15:34:09 <victorp> really I meant

    15:34:24 <victorp> I dont really sure what this tells us about the system

    15:34:31 <victorp> I say remove it

    15:34:33 <victorp> ..

    15:34:36 <ara> +1

    15:34:59 <roadmr> +1 on killing ftp test

    15:35:04 <bladernr> +1

    15:35:08 <brendand> +1

    15:35:36 <ara> Cool, I will raise a bug and will milestone it for 0.12.8

    15:35:43 <ara> 7. Some testing that I do not have hardware for like PCMCIA are still being asked for

    15:35:50 <roadmr> o/

    15:36:30 <ara> roadmr, go ahead

    15:36:55 <roadmr> I don't recall what the agreement was on this, but I think we can't detect pcmcia so we have to ask for it. We could phrase it as "does your system have pcmcia?" instead of what we have now, which leaves the impression we are asking for stuff the system doesn't have

    15:37:22 <roadmr> in general we should make sure we don't ask for hardware we can otherwise detect, but if we can't detect it, asking is better than just doing nothing.

    15:37:25 <roadmr> ..

    15:37:40 <ara> o/

    15:37:43 <bladernr> o/

    15:38:04 <ara> I think this can be deferred for checkbox gui rewrite

    15:38:05 <ara> ..

    15:38:07 <ara> bladernr, your turn

    15:39:07 <bladernr> let me conflate a couple things... I think you suggested marking hte suspend test description change as wont fix, i'd suggest postponing that one and this one for P and handle it then (or not)

    15:39:24 <bladernr> but both seem to be useful changes, but probably not achievable for Oneiric...

    15:39:41 <bladernr> however, I'd like to make sure both live so we don't forget them for P

    15:39:42 <bladernr> ..

    15:39:52 <ara> sounds good to me

    15:39:52 <victorp> +1

    15:40:31 <ara> Cool, next one

    15:40:34 <ara> 8. USB storage transfer takes forever

    15:40:43 <victorp> o/

    15:40:47 <ara> victorp, go ahead

    15:41:05 <victorp> maybe that was just me? has anyone else experience the same ? akgraner?

    15:41:06 <victorp> ..

    15:41:32 <bladernr> o/

    15:41:38 <ara> bladernr, go

    15:41:47 <bladernr> is that the automated USB storage transfer test?

    15:42:13 <bladernr> if so, it takes a while because it creates an arbitrarily big file to transfer to usb storage and then checksums it to compare with the copy on hard disk...

    15:42:43 <bladernr> the file size could be made smaller, thus significantly speeding up the test... the file size was purely arbitrary

    15:42:44 <bladernr> ..

    15:42:51 <ara> o/

    15:43:20 <ara> then I vote to fix it (make it smaller) for P, but I don't see a very high value in fixing it for Oneiric at this point

    15:43:21 <ara> ..

    15:43:42 <brendand> o/

    15:43:48 <ara> brendand, yes?

    15:44:03 <brendand> i think that's some pretty tasty low-hanging fruit Smile :)

    15:44:11 <victorp> 0/

    15:44:13 <victorp> o

    15:44:13 <brendand> am i right bladernr?

    15:44:20 <brendand> ...

    15:44:30 <ara> victorp, go

    15:44:44 <bladernr> +1 brendand

    15:45:07 <victorp> 5 minutes out of 15-20 minutes run seems pretty bad to me and worth doing if just it requires changing a magic number

    15:45:35 <victorp> plus the file shouldn't be bigger that 1K if we are checking crc here, I dont think size matters Wink ;)

    15:45:36 <victorp> ..

    15:46:01 <bladernr> that's what she said

    15:46:02 <victorp> s/that/than/

    15:46:08 <bladernr> o/

    15:46:17 <victorp> no

    15:46:25 <victorp> she said fixit for P I am saying O

    15:46:34 <ara> bladernr, go ahead

    15:47:05 <victorp> o/

    15:47:19 <bladernr> A: nevermind, bad joke... as for the magic number, it's a very easy fix as brendan said, so +1 for fixing on 0. The default is 32mb, so we could definintely make the default smaller (1MB or 1K or 100K or whatever)

    15:47:21 <bladernr> ..

    15:47:34 <bladernr> er... O not 0

    15:47:50 <ara> my only concern is that they'll accept it or not

    15:47:57 <ara> victorp, go ahead

    15:48:00 <victorp> I vote for milestoning thisfor 0.12.8 15:48:14 * victorp gets the bad joke now... really bad

    15:48:35 <victorp> ara- why would they accept the other fixes (mem test) and not this one?

    15:48:52 <victorp> ..

    15:49:01 <ara> victorp, I don't know, in this case we are changing a test, in the other case we are removing it

    15:49:19 <ara> but I am happy to try

    15:49:19 <victorp> ah, well we should ask in any case

    15:49:50 <ara> cool

    15:49:55 <ara> next one 15:49:57 * victorp ..

    15:50:11 <ara> last one

    15:50:22 <ara> 9. Submitting results is not clear

    15:50:29 <ara> this is a problem by itself

    15:50:40 <victorp> o/

    15:50:47 <ara> if you leave that blank it won't accept the submission (unless something changed in between)

    15:50:48 <ara> ..

    15:50:50 <ara> victorp, ?

    15:50:58 <victorp> I must say that is "submitting results with you LP id" is not clear

    15:51:00 <victorp> ..

    15:51:17 <ara> but if you leave it blank? does it submit?

    15:51:22 <roadmr> o/

    15:51:22 <victorp> anonymous submissions? 15:51:43 * victorp has not tried that

    15:51:49 <ara> roadmr, go ahead

    15:52:04 <roadmr> If you don't enter an email address, a dialog says "not submitting to launchpad" and you end up in the "successfully finished testing!" screen

    15:52:16 <roadmr> if you then press "previous" and do enter an email address, it can submit to launchpad

    15:52:27 <ara> roadmr, but if you leave it blank it won't submit

    15:52:32 <roadmr> I agree that the UI/sequence is a bit confusing, but it works and it does warn you that it won't submit if left blank

    15:52:37 <ara> which it was my point

    15:52:42 <victorp> o/

    15:52:43 <ara> we should accept blank emails

    15:52:46 <ara> victorp, yes

    15:52:56 <roadmr> ok ok, if that's the idea then we do need some changes :0

    15:52:58 <roadmr> ..

    15:53:13 <victorp> a simple solution would be to put in the test box by default [enter your email here]

    15:53:27 <victorp> s/test/text/ !!!

    15:53:32 <victorp> what is up with me today

    15:53:33 <victorp> ..

    15:53:42 <ara> o/

    15:53:56 <ara> but what should we do with blank emails?

    15:53:56 <ara> ..

    15:53:57 <victorp> go ahead ara Wink ;)

    15:54:09 <victorp> o/

    15:54:21 <ara> victorp, just go if nobody is talking

    15:54:36 <victorp> I am +1 on anonymous submissions unless we see most people are using it

    15:54:39 <roadmr> o/

    15:54:52 <ara> roadmr, yup

    15:54:57 <victorp> so what am I saying is go ahead with accepting it and introduce a ban on them later on

    15:54:58 <victorp> ..

    15:55:10 <roadmr> one very simple solution would be forcing a "dummy" email address for blank submissions

    15:55:39 <roadmr> so if it's blank, checkbox sends it as if coming from anonymouscoward@somewhere.com, and we know that all submissions from that address were anonymously sent

    15:55:39 <victorp> anonymous@ubuntu.com

    15:55:43 <roadmr> ..

    15:56:04 <ara> +1

    15:56:20 <victorp> o/

    15:56:26 <ara> victorp, yes?

    15:56:34 <victorp> is that doable for 0.12.8 or shall we leave it to P?

    15:56:39 <victorp> ..

    15:57:09 <ara> o/

    15:57:25 <ara> I think it is quite a bit change, I am afraid Sad :(

    15:57:32 <ara> ..

    15:57:50 <victorp> o/

    15:57:56 <victorp> I would say do it in P

    15:58:02 <bladernr> o/

    15:58:04 <victorp> we dont seem to have a lack of submissions

    15:58:26 <victorp> there is 48 for oneiric at the moment

    15:58:28 <victorp> ..

    15:58:31 <ara> bladernr, yes?

    15:59:04 <bladernr> to avoid trying to work this into checkbox for O, would it be possible to do that server-side instead of the client side?

    15:59:05 <bladernr> ..

    15:59:29 <ara> bladernr, the UI won't submit without email

    15:59:43 <ara> I would say, do it in P

    15:59:44 <ara> ..

    16:00:00 <bladernr> ahhh... I thought that may have changed for anonymous subs...

    16:00:07 <bladernr> ..

    16:00:30 <ara> Cool, I think this covers the first topic

    16:00:39 <ara> Moving on quickly (we are already out of time)

    16:00:58 <ara> #topic Ubuntu Friendly website: http://bit.ly/UbuntuFriendly

    16:01:14 <ara> victorp has suggested to cover this topic during this meeting

    16:01:25 <ara> victorp, anything you want to mention specifically?

    16:01:28 <victorp> o?

    16:01:31 <victorp> I like it!

    16:01:32 <victorp> Wink ;)

    16:01:33 <victorp> ..

    16:01:41 <jedimike> o/

    16:01:46 <ara> jedimike, go!

    16:01:49 <jedimike> i like it too

    16:01:50 <jedimike> .. 16:01:53 * victorp thinks jedimike and cr3 are doing a great job

    16:02:25 * ara likes it as well Smile :)

    16:03:07 <ara> anyway, just a reminder that feedback and bugs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-friendly) are more than welcome Smile :)

    16:03:12 <victorp> Any one has contrustive feedback , please?

    16:03:34 <victorp> ara - can you set up answers in there

    16:03:42 <ara> victorp, sure

    16:04:01 <ara> done

    16:04:04 <roadmr> other than polishing things (the search controls on the left) I'd say it's looking very nice so far

    16:04:06 <victorp> I think that will be useful to things like this, rather than bugs

    16:05:23 <ara> #topic Any Other Business?

    16:05:27 <victorp> akgraner, have you had time to look at it?

    16:06:16 <ara> going once...

    16:06:42 <ara> going twice...

    16:07:42 <ara> gone!

    16:07:45 <ara> #endmeeting

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UbuntuFriendly/Meetings/20110919 (last edited 2011-09-21 07:54:59 by apulido)