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Meeting started by ara at 15:02:41 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-19-15.02.log.html .

Meeting summary

• Feedback priorities

LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback (ara, 15:04:26) LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback (ara, 15:05:26) LINK: http://launchpad.net/bugs/283929 (brendand, 15:17:33)

• Ubuntu Friendly website: http://bit.ly/UbuntuFriendly

• Any Other Business?

Meeting ended at 16:07:45 UTC.

Votes

Action items

• (none)

People present (lines said)

• ara (145)
• victorp (75)
• brendand (33)
• roadmr (31)
• bladernr (26)
• akgraner (4)
• ubottu (3)
• meetingology (3)
• jedimike (3)

Full Log

• 15:02:41 <ara> #startmeeting

  15:02:41 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 19 15:02:41 2011 UTC. The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.

  15:02:41 <meetingology>

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  15:03:00 <ara> Agenda:

  15:03:08 <ara> Feedback priorities

  15:03:08 <ara> AOB

  15:03:21 <ara> #topic Feedback priorities

  15:03:47 <ara> First of all, thanks to all that provided feedback

  15:04:13 <ara> I am sure I missed some of the points, so let's try to cover what we have and add more if we can remember some more

  15:04:25 <ara> the list so far is at:

  15:04:26 <ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback

  15:04:37 <ara> We are the final sprint for Oneiric and we have to be careful to make the best decisions. For the feedback that we are receiving for UF there let's try to come up with a solution for each of it.

  15:04:51 <ara> Possible solutions

  15:04:52 <ara> * 0.12.8

  15:04:52 <ara> * PPA

  15:04:52 <ara> * Won't Fix

  15:04:52 <ara> * Remove test

  15:05:08 <ara> 0.12.8 is due in a couple of weeks and it will probably be the last checkbox release in Oneiric, PPA is the rewrite of checkbox that we are developing and that will be released as a PPA, Won't Fix and Remove test are clear enough

  15:05:26 <ara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback

  15:05:54 <ara> So, going one by one

  15:06:00 <ara> 1. Superuser warning should appear at the beginning

  15:06:15 <roadmr> o/

  15:06:22 <ara> roadmr, go ahead

  15:06:52 <roadmr> there's currently a known bug in checkbox where it skips the welcome and test selection screens, goes directly into the tests

  15:07:13 <brendand> o/

  15:07:17 <ara> roadmr, can we have the bug number, please?

  15:07:19 <roadmr> this exacerbates the problem observed, once the bug is fixed, we could add the warning in the welcome screen's text

  15:07:30 <roadmr> sure: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/852204

  15:07:31 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 852204 in checkbox "Test selection screen does not appear" [Undecided,Confirmed]

  15:07:32 <roadmr> ..

  15:08:06 <ara> brendand,

  15:08:54 <brendand> i don't think this should be a high priority. you could argue that putting it before the welcome screen would be more confusing

  15:08:56 <brendand> ..

  15:09:15 <ara> o/

  15:09:28 <ara> brendand, yes, I think the real problem is the bug for the welcome screen, not the message

  15:09:44 <ara> so I think the solution would be to fix that bug for 0.12.8

  15:09:59 <ara> ..

  15:10:26 <brendand> definitely

  15:10:29 <victorp> o/

  15:10:37 <ara> victorp, go ahead

  15:10:43 <victorp> can we triage that bug

  15:10:49 <ara> victorp, I just did

  15:10:56 <victorp> hehe ...

  15:11:19 <ara> cool, one off

  15:11:28 <ara> 2. mem_test is crashing for many users

  15:11:44 <ara> The value of this test is very arguable

  15:12:14 <ara> my suggestion would be to raise a bug about it and to remove the test

  15:12:24 <victorp> bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/853799

  15:12:26 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 853799 in checkbox "remove memory test from ubuntu friendly whitelist (default)" [Critical,Confirmed]

  15:12:30 <brendand> o/

  15:12:45 <ara> victorp, thanks

  15:12:47 <ara> brendand,

  15:13:46 <brendand> i think there is value in checking if the RAM in the system is usable but i don't think this test is going about it in a way that suits the needs of the ubuntu friendly program

  15:14:26 <brendand> removing it is an okay short term solution though

  15:14:28 <brendand> ...

  15:14:45 <ara> brendand, cool, milestoned as well, thanks

  15:14:59 <ara> Moving to the next one

  15:15:07 <ara> 3. when a test moves from interactive to non-interactive, the test information should be updated.

  15:15:16 <ara> I am sure that there is a old bug about this

  15:15:35 <ara> did anyone try to find it?

  15:16:14 <roadmr> o/

  15:16:23 <ara> roadmr, you go

  15:16:32 <brendand> o/

  15:16:35 <roadmr> The bug doesn't ring a bell, though we'd have to go look at old bugs, there aren't that many so if it's there we should find it

  15:16:53 <roadmr> We do need to improve our progress indication when non-interactive tests are running

  15:17:09 <roadmr> we'd have to look at the amount of work (mainly in the gtk interface) to make this less confusing

  15:17:12 <roadmr> ..

  15:17:18 <ara> thanks

  15:17:22 <ara> brendand, your turn

  15:17:22 <victorp> o/

  15:17:32 <brendand> nearly 3 years old to be precise...

  15:17:33 <brendand> http://launchpad.net/bugs/283929

  15:17:34 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 283929 in checkbox "Answer from previous question is shown while automated tests are run" [Low,Triaged]

  15:18:01 <brendand> ..

  15:18:14 <ara> brendand, thanks!

  15:18:17 <ara> victorp, you go now

  15:18:53 <victorp> seems that this is a gui thing... if we are going to rewrite the UI seems better to fix it then

  15:19:01 <brendand> o/

  15:19:03 <victorp> unless is a blocker

  15:19:05 <victorp> ..

  15:19:22 <ara> I don't think it is a blocker, I would vote to fix it in the PPA

  15:19:26 <ara> brendand 15:20:05 * victorp wonders if we can create a milestone for that

  15:20:09 <akgraner> o/

  15:20:15 <brendand> i'd say PPA too. the controls are disabled while the automated test is running so even if it is confusing, there's no scope for the user to do anything wrong.

  15:20:16 <brendand> ...

  15:20:32 <ara> akgraner, you go

  15:20:51 <akgraner> If you fix it in a ppa will end users know how to update easily?

  15:21:23 <akgraner> I don't use PPA that much

  15:21:24 <akgraner> ...

  15:21:27 <ara> o/

  15:21:39 <victorp> ara - can we stop calling it a ppa and say 12.04 instead

  15:21:45 <victorp> oops o/

  15:21:47 <victorp>

  15:22:08 <victorp> ..

  15:22:09 <ara> The so-called ppa is intended to be a "nicer" checkbox that will be released in P

  15:22:30 <ara> so, yes, we can call it something else

  15:22:32 <ara> ..

  15:22:43 <ara> (not sure if 12.04 is the best way to call it, though)

  15:24:24 <ara> akgraner, the default checkbox will be usable and we will let people know how to upgrade if the want to use the fancy one

  15:24:27 <ara> ..

  15:24:43 <ara> next one

  15:24:49 <ara> 4. graphics/resolution test failed with a dual monitor set up

  15:25:07 <brendand> o/

  15:25:13 <ara> brendand, go ahead

  15:25:25 <brendand> is there a bug? has anyone confirmed this?

  15:25:32 <brendand> ...

  15:25:53 <ara> brendand, this is coming from Carlos, but I am not sure if he raised a bug

  15:26:13 <ara> so the first action here would be to confirm it and raise a bug

  15:26:47 <ara> but if we confirm it I would vote to fix it in Oneiric

  15:26:48 <victorp> o/

  15:26:52 <ara> victorp, go

  15:27:07 <victorp> I would think then as Carlos to do so and move on

  15:27:09 <victorp> ..

  15:27:14 <brendand> o/

  15:27:18 <victorp> s/as/ask/

  15:27:19 <ara> brendand

  15:27:43 <brendand> i did just check and it is confirmable (you get two lines with an * instead of one)

  15:28:00 <brendand> as victorp said, ping hggdh to raise a bug and then deal with it

  15:28:13 <brendand> which i think should be in 0.12.8

  15:28:33 <brendand> since i imagine a lot of people will run with a display connected

  15:28:36 <brendand> ...

  15:28:44 <ara> OK, let's do that then

  15:28:46 <ara> Next one

  15:28:48 <ara> 5. suspend/resume should warn the user that it might fail

  15:29:19 <ara> I think the test already warns the user, doesn't it?

  15:29:28 <brendand> o/

  15:29:37 <roadmr> o/

  15:30:02 <ara> brendand, go

  15:30:18 <brendand> i don't think so 15:30:20 * brendand checks

  15:30:31 <ara> roadmr, ?

  15:30:42 <roadmr> from the test description: "If your system fails to wake at all and must be rebooted,

  15:30:45 <roadmr> restart System Testing after reboot and mark this test as Failed."

  15:30:52 <brendand> a little bit. could be clearer

  15:31:12 <roadmr> yep, not sure how changing a test description at this point affects things. Well that's all I had on this test.

  15:31:15 <roadmr> ..

  15:31:38 <ara> o/

  15:31:45 <bladernr> o/

  15:31:45 <ara> I think for Oneiric is good enough

  15:31:48 <ara> ..

  15:31:49 <ara> bladernr, go

  15:32:16 <bladernr> was just going to say that changing the actual test descriptions would require a translation change, and thus an exception pushed through at this point...

  15:32:22 <bladernr> at least that's my understanding of it

  15:32:22 <bladernr> ...

  15:32:43 <ara> o/

  15:32:47 <ara> Yes I think that's the case

  15:33:00 <ara> I think we can mark this one as "won't fix"

  15:33:04 <ara> ..

  15:33:40 <ara> Cool, next one

  15:33:43 <ara> 6. ftp test is not working

  15:33:51 <victorp> o/

  15:33:57 <ara> victorp, go ahead

  15:34:03 <victorp> ftp test!!! realy?

  15:34:09 <victorp> really I meant

  15:34:24 <victorp> I dont really sure what this tells us about the system

  15:34:31 <victorp> I say remove it

  15:34:33 <victorp> ..

  15:34:36 <ara> +1

  15:34:59 <roadmr> +1 on killing ftp test

  15:35:04 <bladernr> +1

  15:35:08 <brendand> +1

  15:35:36 <ara> Cool, I will raise a bug and will milestone it for 0.12.8

  15:35:43 <ara> 7. Some testing that I do not have hardware for like PCMCIA are still being asked for

  15:35:50 <roadmr> o/

  15:36:30 <ara> roadmr, go ahead

  15:36:55 <roadmr> I don't recall what the agreement was on this, but I think we can't detect pcmcia so we have to ask for it. We could phrase it as "does your system have pcmcia?" instead of what we have now, which leaves the impression we are asking for stuff the system doesn't have

  15:37:22 <roadmr> in general we should make sure we don't ask for hardware we can otherwise detect, but if we can't detect it, asking is better than just doing nothing.

  15:37:25 <roadmr> ..

  15:37:40 <ara> o/

  15:37:43 <bladernr> o/

  15:38:04 <ara> I think this can be deferred for checkbox gui rewrite

  15:38:05 <ara> ..

  15:38:07 <ara> bladernr, your turn

  15:39:07 <bladernr> let me conflate a couple things... I think you suggested marking hte suspend test description change as wont fix, i'd suggest postponing that one and this one for P and handle it then (or not)

  15:39:24 <bladernr> but both seem to be useful changes, but probably not achievable for Oneiric...

  15:39:41 <bladernr> however, I'd like to make sure both live so we don't forget them for P

  15:39:42 <bladernr> ..

  15:39:52 <ara> sounds good to me

  15:39:52 <victorp> +1

  15:40:31 <ara> Cool, next one

  15:40:34 <ara> 8. USB storage transfer takes forever

  15:40:43 <victorp> o/

  15:40:47 <ara> victorp, go ahead

  15:41:05 <victorp> maybe that was just me? has anyone else experience the same ? akgraner?

  15:41:06 <victorp> ..

  15:41:32 <bladernr> o/

  15:41:38 <ara> bladernr, go

  15:41:47 <bladernr> is that the automated USB storage transfer test?

  15:42:13 <bladernr> if so, it takes a while because it creates an arbitrarily big file to transfer to usb storage and then checksums it to compare with the copy on hard disk...

  15:42:43 <bladernr> the file size could be made smaller, thus significantly speeding up the test... the file size was purely arbitrary

  15:42:44 <bladernr> ..

  15:42:51 <ara> o/

  15:43:20 <ara> then I vote to fix it (make it smaller) for P, but I don't see a very high value in fixing it for Oneiric at this point

  15:43:21 <ara> ..

  15:43:42 <brendand> o/

  15:43:48 <ara> brendand, yes?

  15:44:03 <brendand> i think that's some pretty tasty low-hanging fruit

  15:44:11 <victorp> 0/

  15:44:13 <victorp> o

  15:44:13 <brendand> am i right bladernr?

  15:44:20 <brendand> ...

  15:44:30 <ara> victorp, go

  15:44:44 <bladernr> +1 brendand

  15:45:07 <victorp> 5 minutes out of 15-20 minutes run seems pretty bad to me and worth doing if just it requires changing a magic number

  15:45:35 <victorp> plus the file shouldn't be bigger that 1K if we are checking crc here, I dont think size matters

  15:45:36 <victorp> ..

  15:46:01 <bladernr> that's what she said

  15:46:02 <victorp> s/that/than/

  15:46:08 <bladernr> o/

  15:46:17 <victorp> no

  15:46:25 <victorp> she said fixit for P I am saying O

  15:46:34 <ara> bladernr, go ahead

  15:47:05 <victorp> o/

  15:47:19 <bladernr> A: nevermind, bad joke... as for the magic number, it's a very easy fix as brendan said, so +1 for fixing on 0. The default is 32mb, so we could definintely make the default smaller (1MB or 1K or 100K or whatever)

  15:47:21 <bladernr> ..

  15:47:34 <bladernr> er... O not 0

  15:47:50 <ara> my only concern is that they'll accept it or not

  15:47:57 <ara> victorp, go ahead

  15:48:00 <victorp> I vote for milestoning thisfor 0.12.8 15:48:14 * victorp gets the bad joke now... really bad

  15:48:35 <victorp> ara- why would they accept the other fixes (mem test) and not this one?

  15:48:52 <victorp> ..

  15:49:01 <ara> victorp, I don't know, in this case we are changing a test, in the other case we are removing it

  15:49:19 <ara> but I am happy to try

  15:49:19 <victorp> ah, well we should ask in any case

  15:49:50 <ara> cool

  15:49:55 <ara> next one 15:49:57 * victorp ..

  15:50:11 <ara> last one

  15:50:22 <ara> 9. Submitting results is not clear

  15:50:29 <ara> this is a problem by itself

  15:50:40 <victorp> o/

  15:50:47 <ara> if you leave that blank it won't accept the submission (unless something changed in between)

  15:50:48 <ara> ..

  15:50:50 <ara> victorp, ?

  15:50:58 <victorp> I must say that is "submitting results with you LP id" is not clear

  15:51:00 <victorp> ..

  15:51:17 <ara> but if you leave it blank? does it submit?

  15:51:22 <roadmr> o/

  15:51:22 <victorp> anonymous submissions? 15:51:43 * victorp has not tried that

  15:51:49 <ara> roadmr, go ahead

  15:52:04 <roadmr> If you don't enter an email address, a dialog says "not submitting to launchpad" and you end up in the "successfully finished testing!" screen

  15:52:16 <roadmr> if you then press "previous" and do enter an email address, it can submit to launchpad

  15:52:27 <ara> roadmr, but if you leave it blank it won't submit

  15:52:32 <roadmr> I agree that the UI/sequence is a bit confusing, but it works and it does warn you that it won't submit if left blank

  15:52:37 <ara> which it was my point

  15:52:42 <victorp> o/

  15:52:43 <ara> we should accept blank emails

  15:52:46 <ara> victorp, yes

  15:52:56 <roadmr> ok ok, if that's the idea then we do need some changes :0

  15:52:58 <roadmr> ..

  15:53:13 <victorp> a simple solution would be to put in the test box by default [enter your email here]

  15:53:27 <victorp> s/test/text/ !!!

  15:53:32 <victorp> what is up with me today

  15:53:33 <victorp> ..

  15:53:42 <ara> o/

  15:53:56 <ara> but what should we do with blank emails?

  15:53:56 <ara> ..

  15:53:57 <victorp> go ahead ara

  15:54:09 <victorp> o/

  15:54:21 <ara> victorp, just go if nobody is talking

  15:54:36 <victorp> I am +1 on anonymous submissions unless we see most people are using it

  15:54:39 <roadmr> o/

  15:54:52 <ara> roadmr, yup

  15:54:57 <victorp> so what am I saying is go ahead with accepting it and introduce a ban on them later on

  15:54:58 <victorp> ..

  15:55:10 <roadmr> one very simple solution would be forcing a "dummy" email address for blank submissions

  15:55:39 <roadmr> so if it's blank, checkbox sends it as if coming from anonymouscoward@somewhere.com, and we know that all submissions from that address were anonymously sent

  15:55:39 <victorp> anonymous@ubuntu.com

  15:55:43 <roadmr> ..

  15:56:04 <ara> +1

  15:56:20 <victorp> o/

  15:56:26 <ara> victorp, yes?

  15:56:34 <victorp> is that doable for 0.12.8 or shall we leave it to P?

  15:56:39 <victorp> ..

  15:57:09 <ara> o/

  15:57:25 <ara> I think it is quite a bit change, I am afraid

  15:57:32 <ara> ..

  15:57:50 <victorp> o/

  15:57:56 <victorp> I would say do it in P

  15:58:02 <bladernr> o/

  15:58:04 <victorp> we dont seem to have a lack of submissions

  15:58:26 <victorp> there is 48 for oneiric at the moment

  15:58:28 <victorp> ..

  15:58:31 <ara> bladernr, yes?

  15:59:04 <bladernr> to avoid trying to work this into checkbox for O, would it be possible to do that server-side instead of the client side?

  15:59:05 <bladernr> ..

  15:59:29 <ara> bladernr, the UI won't submit without email

  15:59:43 <ara> I would say, do it in P

  15:59:44 <ara> ..

  16:00:00 <bladernr> ahhh... I thought that may have changed for anonymous subs...

  16:00:07 <bladernr> ..

  16:00:30 <ara> Cool, I think this covers the first topic

  16:00:39 <ara> Moving on quickly (we are already out of time)

  16:00:58 <ara> #topic Ubuntu Friendly website: http://bit.ly/UbuntuFriendly

  16:01:14 <ara> victorp has suggested to cover this topic during this meeting

  16:01:25 <ara> victorp, anything you want to mention specifically?

  16:01:28 <victorp> o?

  16:01:31 <victorp> I like it!

  16:01:32 <victorp>

  16:01:33 <victorp> ..

  16:01:41 <jedimike> o/

  16:01:46 <ara> jedimike, go!

  16:01:49 <jedimike> i like it too

  16:01:50 <jedimike> .. 16:01:53 * victorp thinks jedimike and cr3 are doing a great job

  16:02:25 * ara likes it as well

  16:03:07 <ara> anyway, just a reminder that feedback and bugs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-friendly) are more than welcome

  16:03:12 <victorp> Any one has contrustive feedback , please?

  16:03:34 <victorp> ara - can you set up answers in there

  16:03:42 <ara> victorp, sure

  16:04:01 <ara> done

  16:04:04 <roadmr> other than polishing things (the search controls on the left) I'd say it's looking very nice so far

  16:04:06 <victorp> I think that will be useful to things like this, rather than bugs

  16:05:23 <ara> #topic Any Other Business?

  16:05:27 <victorp> akgraner, have you had time to look at it?

  16:06:16 <ara> going once...

  16:06:42 <ara> going twice...

  16:07:42 <ara> gone!

  16:07:45 <ara> #endmeeting

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