20111128

Meeting started by ara at 16:02:16 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-28-16.02.log.html .

Meeting summary

  • Ubuntu Friendly on Ubuntu variants (roadmr)

ACTION: roadmr to send email to the derivatives mailing lists about UF experience (and to get people involved!) (ara, 16:38:29)

  • Any Other Business?

Meeting ended at 16:54:09 UTC.

Votes

Action items

  • roadmr to send email to the derivatives mailing lists about UF experience (and to get people involved!)

Action items, by person

  • roadmr
  • * roadmr to send email to the derivatives mailing lists about UF experience (and to get people involved!)

People present (lines said)

  • ara (68)
  • roadmr (42)
  • cr3 (25)
  • brendand (24)
  • MrChrisDruif (17)

  • bladernr_ (14)
  • meetingology (4)

Full Log

  • 16:02:16 <ara> #startmeeting

    16:02:16 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov 28 16:02:16 2011 UTC. The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.

    16:02:16 <meetingology>

    16:02:16 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

    16:02:30 <ara> Welcome to the Ubuntu Friendly Squad meeting!

    16:02:37 <ara> The agenda today looks so far:

    16:02:40 <ara> Ubuntu Friendly on Ubuntu variants (roadmr). I'll start discussion on this on the ML but if needed, we can hash this out on the meeting too.

    16:02:41 <ara> AOB

    16:02:52 <ara> only one topic

    16:02:56 <ara> let's get started

    16:03:08 <ara> #topic Ubuntu Friendly on Ubuntu variants (roadmr)

    16:03:11 <ara> roadmr, all yours!

    16:03:20 <roadmr> OK thanks!

    16:03:43 <roadmr> we've received a few bug reports and complaints, indicating that theuser experience for UF is somewhat subpar on Kubuntu (specifically) - but I guess this would apply to other Ubuntu variants.

    16:04:09 <roadmr> I sent a request to the mailing list to see what people think of UF's user experience on those variants

    16:04:19 <roadmr> and also to ask for some help or ideas on tasks to tackle this

    16:04:31 <roadmr> to make the UF experience better on variants of Ubuntu

    16:05:07 <roadmr> so other than looking at the tasks I sent to the mailing list,

    16:05:20 <roadmr> the thing is that a lot of the work to make this happen will have to come from the community

    16:05:32 <ara> o/

    16:05:45 <roadmr> so first, if anyone has anything other than the tasks I posted on the ML it'd be nice to hear about it

    16:06:12 <roadmr> also, if there are some ideas on how to engage and/or reach communities for those variants who may be interested in helping with this, that'd also be nice to discuss.

    16:06:42 <roadmr> the topic on the ML has not received a lot of attention but it may be because of last week being mostly about vacation Smile :)

    16:06:47 <roadmr> so any ideas on this?

    16:06:48 <roadmr> ..

    16:06:55 <cr3> o/

    16:07:02 <ara> OK, I go first Big Grin :)

    16:07:21 <roadmr> ara go

    16:07:37 <ara> I think the best idea would be to send the same email (with a bit of introduction) to the kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu mailing lists

    16:07:47 <ara> to see if anyone is interested in doing that work

    16:07:54 <ara> ..

    16:08:32 <roadmr> that's a nice idea - also would help get more people interested in ubuntu friendly Smile :)

    16:08:35 <roadmr> cr3: your turn

    16:08:37 <cr3> when we talk about the "UF experience" for Ubuntu variants, I'd just like to make sure we not only consider the client, checkbox, but also the web interface which needs to reflect a rating based on the variant which may have significant user interface implications

    16:08:41 <cr3> ..

    16:09:10 <ara> o/

    16:09:21 <roadmr> yep, that's a valid concern, up until now we'd only been focusing on the client (i.e. can't run UF at all, help!)

    16:09:36 <roadmr> however to be fair, save for some application-specific tests we're mostly testing the hardware

    16:09:46 <cr3> roadmr: without a web interface counterpart, might as well just not install the client

    16:09:59 <roadmr> and part of the work we want to do is ensuring we're testing the same components in the same way (i.e. even on kubuntu the audio and video tests use gstreamer)

    16:10:34 <roadmr> ara: go ahead, and I'll let you chair the meeting, sorry for hijacking it Smile :)

    16:10:49 <ara> roadmr, no worries, conversation needs to flow Smile :)

    16:11:05 <ara> what I was going to say was basically what you were saying, roadmr

    16:11:16 <ara> that we are testing hardware on ubuntu, basically

    16:11:27 <ara> there shouldn't be a difference on the rating based on variant

    16:11:32 <ara> ..

    16:11:51 <brendand> o/

    16:12:05 <ara> brendand, go ahead

    16:13:13 <brendand> ara - are you sure about there being no difference. at least kubuntu uses a different bluetooth stack (not certain it affects hw interaction) and maybe a different network manager (i'm only like 20% sure about that one though)

    16:13:15 <brendand> ..

    16:13:27 <roadmr> o/

    16:13:32 <ara> roadmr, your turn

    16:13:46 <roadmr> brendand: I looked at a stock kubuntu install and nmcli was at least present

    16:14:07 <roadmr> so part of the problem is that we know next to nothing about these variants, thus engaging their communities is a reasonable first step

    16:14:33 <MrChrisDruif> Ubuntu Friendly?

    16:14:34 <roadmr> it may lead to considering the variants as worthy of an entirely separate rating, as per cr3 - but the point seems to be that we won't know until we have on board some people who know them better

    16:14:50 <brendand> o/

    16:14:51 <roadmr> MrChrisDruif: yep, you're in the right place. Welcome!

    16:14:52 <roadmr> ..

    16:15:08 <ara> brendand, go ahead

    16:15:13 <MrChrisDruif> I wasn't paying attention to the time

    16:15:20 <brendand> Ubuntu: BlueZ

    16:15:21 <MrChrisDruif> o/

    16:15:25 <brendand> Kubuntu: BlueDevil

    16:15:27 <brendand> ..

    16:15:59 <ara> MrChrisDruif, go ahead

    16:16:38 <MrChrisDruif> O, sorry I thought that was for saying your here. Please continue brendand

    16:17:29 <ara> can anyone copy-paste the latest bits, please?

    16:17:33 <ara> I dropped

    16:17:45 <roadmr> ara: just MrChrisDruif saying hi Smile :) you didn't miss anything

    16:18:11 <roadmr> oh and brendand pointing out the bluetooth stack differences (maybe you missed that)

    16:19:08 <ara> cr3, OK, so what happens right now with Non-Ubuntu results in RT? are they accepted?

    16:19:35 <cr3> ara: yep

    16:20:07 <roadmr> o/

    16:20:12 <cr3> ara: I'm not sure where they might be reported though, it might depend on the output of lsb_release

    16:20:26 <ara> roadmr, go ahead

    16:21:04 <roadmr> if due to lack of some requirements (because the variant doesn't have them for instance) some UF-required tests are not run, the system will get one star on Ubuntu Friendly Sad :( even though it may work fine

    16:21:19 <roadmr> ..

    16:21:45 <ara> We are just going on circles here, I think Smile :-)

    16:21:55 <roadmr> actions, actions!

    16:21:57 <ara> Any concrete proposals / action items?

    16:22:06 <cr3> o/

    16:22:06 <MrChrisDruif> But would it be possible to install those temporarily for the tests?

    16:22:46 <ara> cr3, go ahead

    16:22:58 <cr3> how about this action item: someone to submit test results from kubuntu, see whether that appears as ubuntu and whether all required tests by UF are provided

    16:23:02 <cr3> ..

    16:23:26 <ara> I prefer that someone to be from the Kubuntu community

    16:24:49 <MrChrisDruif> o/

    16:24:53 <ara> MrChrisDruif, go ahead

    16:25:25 <MrChrisDruif> Might be silly, but there are certain tests performed by the suite if I'm not mistaken.

    16:25:43 <MrChrisDruif> Those tests require certain packages to be install to run, correct?

    16:25:59 <ara> yes

    16:26:45 <MrChrisDruif> Maybe silly again, but can't the suite "depend" on those packages to be installed before you can run it?

    16:27:14 <MrChrisDruif> And maybe we could have separate meta-packages for the different flavors?

    16:28:04 <roadmr> o/

    16:28:05 <MrChrisDruif> Just an idea of course

    16:28:08 <MrChrisDruif> Go ahead

    16:28:13 <ara> roadmr, you go

    16:28:26 <roadmr> Right now the instructions for installing and testing on Kubuntu are

    16:28:41 <roadmr> open a terminal, install checkbox-gtk and gstreamer0.10-gconf, and run checkbox-gtk

    16:28:58 <roadmr> those are the deps I managed to come up with, but I may be missing something

    16:29:03 <roadmr> now it doesn't seem too complex,

    16:29:13 <roadmr> but it would indeed be easier to "install checkbox-kubuntu"

    16:29:21 <ara> o/

    16:29:29 <roadmr> which would in turn depend on checkbox, checkbox-gtk, and any other checkbox deps we know not to be in kubuntu

    16:29:35 <roadmr> ..

    16:29:50 <roadmr> ara, go!

    16:30:08 <ara> I think that this conversation just needs to engage the kubuntu community first

    16:30:13 <cr3> when in doubt, add more checkboxes (or checkboxen)!

    16:30:24 <bladernr_> Noooooooooo!

    16:30:25 <bladernr_> Wink ;-)

    16:30:35 <cr3> checkbox-bladernr 16:30:38 * bladernr_ imagines checkboxen to be similar to tribbles

    16:30:45 <brendand> o/

    16:30:56 <ara> we got a lot of people from kubuntu in the uds session

    16:31:06 <bladernr_> o/

    16:31:09 <ara> I am sure someone will want to get involved

    16:31:23 <ara> if we don't get anybody, then, why are we going to do the effort??

    16:31:24 <ara> ..

    16:31:27 <ara> brendand, your turn

    16:31:31 <cr3> ara: +1

    16:32:53 <brendand> just to say that checkbox-kubuntu isn't really an extra checkbox any more than checkbox-gtk is, so i don't think it's that big a deal

    16:33:22 <brendand> let's send an email to the mailing list. if no-one volunteers, as ara says, why are we worried?

    16:33:26 <brendand> ..

    16:33:34 <cr3> o/

    16:33:37 <ara> bladernr_, your turn

    16:33:43 <bladernr_> ok...

    16:34:32 <bladernr_> first, like Brendan, I agree with ara in the "if no one stands up, why worry?" area... also, I agree that we should engage the Kubuntu community for help, especially with finding out where the failures are.

    16:35:18 <bladernr_> second though, what about trying to normalize checkbox a bit too... are the missing things Gnome specific, or are there cases where a test is simply dependend on a package that Ubuntu includes that Kubuntu disregards?

    16:35:52 <bladernr_> perhaps we could organize a Ubuntu Friendly Hug Day with the Kubuntu crowd to help sort this out

    16:35:55 <bladernr_> ..

    16:36:10 <ara> o/

    16:36:30 <ara> OK, so I think that the first thing to do is sending hte email, and then follow up from there

    16:36:55 <ara> the email needs to be sent to both kubuntu-devel and ubuntu-friendly-squad, to be able to follow up

    16:37:06 <ara> any takers? roadmr, you brought the topic

    16:37:25 <roadmr> sure I can do it Smile :) kubuntu only, or also lubuntu and xubuntu?

    16:37:38 <bladernr_> 0/

    16:37:48 <bladernr_> my head apparently got bigger

    16:38:29 <ara> #action roadmr to send email to the derivatives mailing lists about UF experience (and to get people involved!) 16:38:29 * meetingology roadmr to send email to the derivatives mailing lists about UF experience (and to get people involved!)

    16:38:35 <ara> bladernr_, go adhea

    16:38:37 <bladernr_> I'd suggest kubuntu only for now (since that's where the apparent interest is so far) and we can use whatever work we do for that as a template to enable other branches.

    16:38:38 <cr3> o/ again

    16:38:41 <bladernr_> ..

    16:38:46 <ara> +1

    16:38:50 <ara> cr3, go ahead

    16:38:56 <cr3> please, if we have another package, lets not name it "kubuntu" because that would imply there should be other similarly named packages for other variants like "xubuntu" which might not be necessary, so something like checkbox-qt would make a lot more sense

    16:39:01 <cr3> if we want to normalize checkbox and make it work across more variants, perhaps we should move away from specific technologies and use something more versatile like pygame even! that would work everywhere there's a graphical interface

    16:39:06 <cr3> ..

    16:39:37 <cr3> bladernr_: ^ we could have just two checkboxen, one for a graphical interface and one for the command line. that's it

    16:40:44 <ara> OK, anything else on this topic?

    16:41:08 <bladernr_> cr3: yeah, I like the urwid package so far for that. it seems to work, and it's aready there

    16:42:19 <cr3> bladernr_: I think we can do better than urwid for a graphical interface though, hence pygame which uses the SDL that should be supported just about anywhere

    16:42:36 <ara> OK, moving on

    16:42:48 <ara> you guys can take that conversation offline

    16:43:09 <ara> #topic Any Other Business?

    16:43:12 <cr3> ara: are you telling bladernr_ and I to get a room? Smile :)

    16:43:12 <ara> anything else?

    16:43:38 <cr3> o/

    16:43:40 <brendand> o/

    16:44:28 <ara> cr3, go ahead

    16:44:38 <cr3> Every week, there seems to be an interesting topic that comes up. I just wanted to mention that we're doing rather well in justifying the need for weekly meetings Smile :)

    16:44:42 <cr3> ..

    16:45:06 <ara> +1

    16:45:14 <ara> brendand, ?

    16:45:28 <brendand> i guess we don't have too much more time

    16:45:58 <brendand> but i wanted to say that following on from the list thread about automatically detecting the type of a system

    16:46:20 <MrChrisDruif> Ow, I got something

    16:46:28 <brendand> myself and roadmr established that the most sound logic for determining a systems type is:

    16:47:07 <MrChrisDruif> Sorry, go on brendand

    16:47:16 <brendand> check if the system has a battery. if it does not then it is most certainly a desktop

    16:47:30 <brendand> that's wrong

    16:47:33 <brendand> start again

    16:47:48 <brendand> check if the system has a battery. if it does then it is most certainly a laptop

    16:48:21 <brendand> if it doesn't then check the type with DMI. if it professes to be one of the 'laptop' types then we believe it is a laptop

    16:48:31 <brendand> otherwise we believe it is a desktop

    16:49:14 <cr3> brendand: this should be mentionned to the fwts to test that the DMI information is probably defined

    16:49:26 <cr3> s/probably/properly/

    16:49:28 <brendand> the only circumstance in which this will fail is if a laptop either has it's battery removed or undetectable AND it reports as a 'non-laptop' type

    16:49:47 <ara> brendand, this needs to be followed up in the mailing list thread

    16:49:51 <ara> cna you do that, please?

    16:50:24 <brendand> i will of course send this out on the ml too, with a link to the branch with the script which implements that logic

    16:50:28 <brendand> ..

    16:50:47 <ara> cool, thanks

    16:50:53 <ara> MrChrisDruif, your turn

    16:51:29 <MrChrisDruif> Sure, on my mobile I noticed this meeting twice

    16:51:54 <MrChrisDruif> I was checking if the fridge itself had it twice as well, because via the web it only showed once

    16:52:58 <ara> and?

    16:53:02 <MrChrisDruif> Hmm, it seems to be correct on the Fridge. So I'll check my own settings. That was it =)

    16:53:08 <ara> cool, thanks

    16:53:11 <ara> anything else? 16:53:50 * roadmr got nothing else

    16:54:03 <ara> cool, I think we can wrap up, then

    16:54:09 <ara> #endmeeting

Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot)

UbuntuFriendly/Meetings/20111128 (last edited 2011-12-19 16:15:03 by roadmr)