{{{#!IRC
11:30 < dpm> ok, I'm all set
11:31 < dpm> cjohnston, newz2000: so, on the last meeting we were saying that cjohnston would be the driver for this project, and that we'd need a spec for understanding what's involved, discussion and coordinating the work
11:31 < dpm> cjohnston, I see you've created a blueprint and added some actions at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+spec/website-localization/, thanks a lot for that.
11:31 < newz2000> ok, I'm ready
11:32 < cjohnston> :-)
11:32 < cjohnston> first time making a spec, so i hope its decient
11:33 < dpm> sure, I hope you had fun with blueprints in LP :)
11:33 < cjohnston> I've done another one now too.. And that project is going quite well..:-)
11:33 < dpm> However, there is still one pending item we talked about: having a spec in the wiki linked to the blueprint, following (more or less) the template at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
11:34 < dpm> The same thing we do at UDSs when we flesh out the roadmaps for each team.
11:34 < dpm> Here's an example:
11:34 < dpm> Blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-qa-community-testing-translations
11:34 < dpm> Spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/TestingForTranslations
11:35 < dpm> We could reuse the existing page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Roadmap, but it might need to be expanded a bit
11:35 < cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Spec
11:36 < dpm> cjohnston, ah, I mixed up the pages... great, there is a spec in the wiki as well :)
11:36  * newz2000 had not seen that yet
11:36 < cjohnston> I added the spec to the blueprint
11:36 < newz2000> that looks like a fair summary
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11:37 < dpm> cjohnston, ah, you've just linked it now. I read the blueprint this morning and I coldn't see it. Great, that looks good
11:37 < cjohnston> ty
11:37 < cjohnston> Didn't know about linking it.. hehe
11:37 < cjohnston> The spec I do believe was in the email though. :-)
11:38 < dpm> yeah, I went straight to the blueprint, though
11:38 < cjohnston> lol
11:38 < cjohnston> All good
11:38 < dpm> ok, that's what we need to get the ball rolling
11:39 < newz2000> dpm: you mentioned a concern about burdening some of the people who will be working on this
11:39 < newz2000> (during a normally busy period of time)
11:39 < dpm> yeah, we're aproaching Lucid
11:39 < dpm> and people is getting more and more busy
11:40 < cjohnston> I have a question.. Do we want to put this on the M cycle then?
11:40 < cjohnston> Use UDS as a launching point? I don't know if newz2000 is ok with this
11:40 < newz2000> I'm OK w/ it but:
11:41 < newz2000> a: I don't know that all people who will particpate will be at UDS, so we may use it as a milestone, not a locastion
11:41 < newz2000> b: I think we have untapped technical potential that is not tied up w/ Lucid launch
11:41 < newz2000> (so we may be able to start earlier on that side if we want)
11:42 < newz2000> (that's it)
11:42 < cjohnston> I am up for whatever... 
11:42 < dpm> I think we can start with an announcement, and see how it goes, but simply not commit with Lucid from the start
11:42 < newz2000> yeah, I'm totally in favour of that
11:42 < newz2000> cjohnston: didn't you suggest targeting May?
11:43 < dpm> newz2000, where do you think we can coordinate this? would the ubuntu-website mailing list be a good place?
11:43 < newz2000> I think that would be excellent
11:43 < cjohnston> That was my thought, that way people can still focus on Lucid.. I don't know how much work this is going to be, and the possibility of taking away from Lucid
11:44 < newz2000> Does it make sense to deliver the technical implemetnation first and then do the tranlsations as step 2?
11:44 < cjohnston> IMO, without the translations, there is no need for technical implementation
11:44 < newz2000> ok
11:45 < cjohnston> but thats just my opinion
11:45 < newz2000> you're leading this. :-)
11:46 < dpm> cjohnston, there is some work to do in setting up a project in LP and exposing the translations, but I think it should not be much of a problem
11:46 < cjohnston> you two both have more experience though... So if you recommend something, its more than anything I have to go off of.
11:46 < newz2000> Let me ask you a question...
11:47 < newz2000> if we have only one or two languages but otherwise it's working, do you think it will be good enough to launch?
11:47 < cjohnston> Yes.
11:47 < newz2000> (and add translations as they come on)
11:47 < newz2000> The implication is that it needs to work first and foremost, and have at least one or two translations
11:47 < dpm> newz2000, yes, but I'm pretty certain that when the technical implementation is working, we'll get lots more of just two :)
11:48 < dpm> lots more of just than 2 translations, I meant
11:48 < cjohnston> Right.. I think we need some sort of translations as a start... Then implement it.. and get the word out..
11:48 < newz2000> right, my point is that the technical part may be more critical
11:48 < cjohnston> and then get more tanslations
11:48 < cjohnston> I see what your saying
11:48 -!- alejandraobregon [~alejandra@91.189.88.12] has quit [Quit: alejandraobregon]
11:48 < dpm> I agree with newz2000, the implementation is what's most important here
11:49 < cjohnston> Okie then...
11:49 -!- alejandraobregon [~alejandra@91.189.88.12] has joined #ubuntu-website
11:49 < dpm> I can provide a couple of translations for testing, that wouldn't be a problem
11:49 < cjohnston> Ok..
11:50 < newz2000> ok, that's cool
11:50 < dpm> and I'm sure other Ubuntu translators will as well
11:50 < newz2000> Even partial translations can be used for testing
11:50 < cjohnston> Technically: This page is the X language can be used for testing
11:50 < newz2000> true
11:51 < newz2000> So before translations can start there needs to be a source to translate from
11:51 < cjohnston> Plus that would allowe me to see it works right.. lol
11:51 < cjohnston> Correct.
11:51 < newz2000> what was decided regarding ES where there are many loco teams and a variety of resources?
11:52 < cjohnston> I don't remember there being any specific decisions..
11:52 < newz2000> Do we create one ES page that lists all the resources?
11:52 < cjohnston> I remember what you and I had talked about was trying to get as many as possible.... and then if there is none specific to what the user has default fall back on the default es
11:52 < dpm> newz2000, we can put it in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Spec#Unresolved Issues, we'd need more input from LoCos for that
11:52 < newz2000> ok.
11:52 < newz2000> cjohnston: would you do that?
11:53 < newz2000> My question about it is:
11:53 < cjohnston> yup
11:53 < newz2000> if we choose to have es-mx and mx has few resources, would it be better to show them all of es?
11:53 -!- alejandraobregon [~alejandra@91.189.88.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
11:53 < cjohnston> hmm
11:54 < dpm> Some big teams have got a central
11:54 < dpm> coordination forum or mailing list
11:54 < dpm> so perhaps they could be directed to that
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11:54 < cjohnston> But then the other issue, es-mx and es-something else, the same word has two different meanings
11:55 < newz2000> right. How bad is this? Can it be avoided using careful wording?
11:55 < cjohnston> I don't know..
11:55  * newz2000 doesn't expect you to know, just a question
11:55 < cjohnston> I know I run into the issue with my line of work
11:55 < cjohnston> and thats why I bring it up
11:55 < dpm> newz2000, it can be avoided using the standard variant of the language
11:56 < newz2000> ok, that's good
11:56 < newz2000> So we need to identify what languages this could be problematic for
11:56 < dpm> The Spanish translation team uses the same variant for all countries/regions.
11:56 < newz2000> I know Spanish and English both need to address it
11:56 < dpm> -> another action for the spec
11:56 < newz2000> (and yes, i'm suggesting there be an EN translation too :-) )
11:56 < cjohnston> then that would probably be bestoh no
11:56 < cjohnston> lol
11:57 < dpm> yeah, en_GB
11:57 < cjohnston> umm
11:57 < cjohnston> dunno what I was saying
11:57 < newz2000> btw, my reasoning for there being an EN translation is so that this script can be used by the loco teams that don't speak English
11:57 < dpm> ok
11:58 < newz2000> so what are the next action items?
11:58 < dpm> I must go in a few minutes, shall we wrap up with a summary of what we've discussed? Otherwise, you two can continue after me, I'll read the logs
11:59 < cjohnston> I'm adding the Unresolved Issue of how to handle languages with multiple LoCo teams...
11:59 < newz2000> also what languages need to deal w/ multiple locale dialects (or whatever the proper name for taht is)
11:59 < cjohnston> Need to create an LP project.
11:59 < newz2000> we need to create a source document
12:00 < cjohnston> Use the website ML for communication
12:01 < newz2000> I will submit a visual mock-up for what I see the end result looking like
12:01 < cjohnston> Create a LP project
12:01 < cjohnston> I think that's about it?
12:01 < dpm> newz2000, I think that would be a great help
12:01 < dpm> the visual mock-up
12:02 < newz2000> also decide on the final URL structure for translated docs
12:02 < newz2000> (that needs to be done)
12:02 < cjohnston> Yup.
12:03 < dpm> another item for unresolved issues (or pending discussion)
12:03 < dpm> we can start with regular meetings as well, what do you think?
12:04 < cjohnston> I'm fine with that.
12:04 < newz2000> when will the next meeting be? Same time (as originally scheduled)?
12:05 < dpm> biweekly meetings would be fine for you guys?
12:05 < cjohnston> In two weeks I will be on a beach with a beer in my hand
12:05 < cjohnston> ;-)
12:05 < cjohnston> And my wife would kill me if I got online for a meeting
12:06 < dpm> no worries
12:06 < cjohnston> Ooo.. I could talk to some poeple about es_MX tho
12:06 < cjohnston> lol
12:06 < newz2000> :-) Lets meet next week to discuss the technical bits. dpm need not attend I think.
12:07 < newz2000> Actually, cjohnston: lets aim for Thursday
12:07 < cjohnston> newz2000: I'm open.. Your call
12:07 < newz2000> cjohnston: ok. before lunch or after?
12:07 < cjohnston> Doesn't matter
12:07 < dpm> newz2000, sounds good to me. I can be there if I've got time, but I'm also fine with skipping if you don't need me on that one
12:08 < cjohnston> dpm: we always need you.. ;-)
12:08 < dpm> :)
12:08 < cjohnston> lol
12:08 < newz2000> cjohnston: either 11:30 your time or 3:00 your time?
12:08 < dpm> ok, I really need to go now. Is everyone clear with the plan before the next meeting, then?
12:08 < cjohnston> Yup.. Thanks dpm !
12:08 < newz2000> dpm: yep, thanks a bunch
12:08 < cjohnston> 1130 newz2000 
12:09 < newz2000> ok, got it on my calendar
12:09 < dpm> no worries
12:09 < dpm> have a great weekend!
12:09 < cjohnston> You too dpm !!
12:10 < newz2000> great. It sounds like we're a little close to action.
12:10 < newz2000> I'm working on a screenshot now
12:10 < cjohnston> Cool..
12:10 < cjohnston> newz2000: so should I take and create a seperate LP project from the ubuntu-website project then?
12:11  * newz2000 ponders
12:11 < newz2000> I'm not sure
12:11 < newz2000> Yeah, maybe
12:11 < newz2000> to avoid intermingling bugs
12:11 < cjohnston> ok
12:12 < cjohnston> website-localization too long?
12:12 -!- dpm [~dpm@ubuntu/member/dpm] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
12:15 < newz2000> cjohnston: no, I don't think so
12:16 < cjohnston> ok
12:17 < cjohnston> https://edge.launchpad.net/website-localization
12:18 < newz2000> cool. I'll upload my graphic to the wiki, but first I must catch the IS team before they leave for the day
}}}