<> == Agenda == * Review minutes of [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/Meetings/20101213 | previous meeting]] (meeting chair) * What plans do we have for 2011, especially since we have a banner and a table cloth * UCT LEG stand got >100 sign-ups, mostly beginners. How about Stellies? Can we do anything for these beginners that's more technical than a release party? * [[UbuntuDeveloperWeek]] next week. * Global Jam 1-4 April (http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/567/detail/) * Natty release party. Cape Town this time? More public venue? * Ben's hacking contest. Ubuntu ZA involvement at all? * Loco-Contact replacement (drubin) * How do we go about finding new Contact (drubin) * Review wiki page [[ZATeam/LocoContact]] (drubin will create wiki page) * Find way to share required passwords. (DNS admin, MailMan, Ubuntu-za-website [less of an issue because of shared access]) * '''Agenda item 2''' (Topic``Leader) * More details (optional) == Summary == {{{ Minutes ======= [17:36:01] STARTED (drubin) [17:50:36] TOPIC: Loco-Contact replacement (drubin) [18:13:37] AGREED: drubin will post to the ML about self nominations (drubin) [18:15:40] AGREED: Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out (drubin) [18:18:00] ENDED (drubin) Present ======= * |3o|3 * Maia Grotepass (maiatoday) * David Rubin (drubin) * Kerbero * Dewald Noeth (Queery) * Michael Gorven (cocooncrash) * Wesley Werner (kbmonkey) * Arthur Rilke (arthurrilke) * Hendrik van Wyk (Tonberry) * Raoul Snyman (superfly) * Gareth Cawood (Banlam) * Stefano Rivera (tumbleweed) * pascal` * Neil Oosthuizen (nlsthzn) }}} == Log == [[ http://maaz.mene.za.net/logs/meetings/freenode-%23ubuntu-za/2011-02-21-17-36-01.html|Detail Log]] {{{ [17:36:01] Maaz: Start meeting [17:36:01] * Maaz gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles [17:36:18] Maaz: I am Stefano Rivera [17:36:18] tumbleweed: Done [17:36:20] Maaz: I am Raoul Snyman [17:36:20] superfly: Sure [17:36:23] Maaz: I am Maia Grotepass [17:36:23] maiatoday: Done [17:36:23] Hi guys agenda for this meeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/Meetings/20110221 [17:36:27] Maaz: I am David Rubin [17:36:27] drubin: Sure [17:36:34] Maaz: I am Neil Oosthuizen [17:36:34] nlsthzn: Sure [17:36:36] Maaz: I am Wesley Werner [17:36:36] kbmonkey: Okay [17:36:38] maaz: i am Dewald Noeth [17:36:38] Queery: Yessir [17:36:44] maaz: i am Arthur Rilke [17:36:44] arthurrilke: Done [17:36:45] So any one that feels like telling us who they are is free to tell the bot just like we did [17:37:00] Maaz: i am Hendrik van Wyk [17:37:00] Tonberry: Righto [17:37:01] maazL I am Gareth Cawood [17:37:05] fail [17:37:09] maaz: I am Gareth Cawood [17:37:09] Banlam: Done [17:37:30] So basically welcome to any one that hasn't attended an online IRC meeting before [17:37:39] Maaz: I am Michael Gorven [17:37:39] cocooncrash: Okay [17:37:49] (For those using XChat, you can use the TAB key to auto-complete names :)) [17:38:03] we seem to have lots of new people and some rather old people lurking around so welcome! To the first meeting of the year [17:38:24] thanx drubin [17:38:29] Sorry we have been kinda slack about events/meetup/meetings but December is kinda dead time for most people [17:38:45] marcog: are you around for your agenda points? [17:39:24] he seems to be away [17:39:31] either way moving onto point 1: Review previous minutes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/Meetings/20101213 [17:40:14] * nlsthzn sees his name on the minutes and is happy :) [17:40:24] maiatoday: Do you remember if you mailed the list about open office? [17:40:43] no I didn't [17:40:47] I remember, I didn't [17:41:28] Ok it would be nice to do something like that soon since schools are actually struggling with the whole MS not renewing their licenses thing [17:41:48] Maybe it would be cool if we could find some one on the OO/Libre office team to help us write something up? [17:41:52] ok let me take that action point again [17:41:53] * nlsthzn wonders, openoffice or libre office? [17:42:17] so, I went to a meeting with the western cape school IT support people last month [17:42:29] they're all pretty afraid of OSS [17:42:30] tumbleweed: tell us more [17:42:57] * tumbleweed was there with my supervisor, and we were doing a talk on OSS [17:43:02] does their curriculum not require the use of ms office? [17:43:18] Tonberry: yes but that can be changed.... (theoretically) [17:43:25] his message was "be careful, OSS doesn't guarantee lower TCO" but also that he supports it and uses it [17:43:48] there were all sorts of concerns and questions, but basically, I don't see much changing [17:43:53] since MS is no longer free and the goverment requires that they explore FLOSS they can't make it MS specific any more [17:44:03] oh [17:44:03] there aren't enough staff, and they loose the good people... [17:44:05] cool [17:44:28] i like that [17:44:33] Tonberry: the problem isn't the technical exams.. it is training the teachers to be able to teach FOSS stuff [17:44:43] training + supporting it [17:44:45] drubin: yes, but there's obviously significant motivation to stay with the status quo here [17:44:50] ok [17:45:09] ppl fear change :/ [17:45:13] tumbleweed: true, doesn't mean we shouldn't try [17:45:17] but it would mean that all the schools have to change and not just some of them? [17:45:37] Tonberry: Most of the stuff can be done in OO provided they alter the wording/marking sheet SLIGHTLY [17:45:39] quite simply, switching major packages would require re-training, which iwon't be cheap [17:45:41] I propose we investigate current LO issues first, I heard there were a couple major stability issues [17:46:15] but yes, nothing will happen unless someone pushes them [17:46:22] kbmonkey: stability isn't their major concern as tumbly pointed out it is the proccess/traning/money [17:46:35] code can be fixed [17:46:38] and the concern that "this isn't whaht th industry uses" [17:46:44] [17:47:02] so getting them to adopt OSS is the hurdle [17:47:03] any plan for change will have to be long term [17:47:14] are schools really concerned about what the industry uses? [17:47:16] tumbleweed: I guess that is why they are pushing delphi in schools right? [17:47:19] I think most of the staff knows the old ms office and OOO is very much like it, that might help get them to move over to it [17:47:26] Banlam: yes, schools in general are very concious of industry [17:47:26] haha @ delphi [17:47:41] Banlam: Yes they are "training students to become competent in the work place" [17:47:54] ok, they never really relayed that to us when i was in school :P [17:47:55] i thought they were on java these days [17:47:56] tumbleweed: I think education department more then schools [17:48:19] Banlam: "trying" doesn't mean they are good at it :( [17:48:22] tonberry, lots of private/ieb schools are on delphi [17:48:34] drubin: I took industry more seriously when I was in school than I do now [17:48:36] poor things [17:48:45] I don't think us debating this in this channel right now is going to solve stuff though... [17:48:55] I think some good case studies would be a start [17:49:08] people pushing their own children's schools to experiment... [17:49:10] tumbleweed: True but where/who/how do we go about that [17:49:12] i agree [17:49:51] Any one have any thing more on this or can we move on? [17:49:59] no, lets move on [17:50:19] I am going to move stuff around slightly because my point effects the events for 2011 [17:50:36] Maaz: Topic Loco-Contact replacement [17:50:36] Current Topic: Loco-Contact replacement [17:50:57] So basically over the last few months I have not been doing enough. [17:51:26] maiatoday has honestly been helping me far far beyond what is required and been the driving force behind ubuntu-za (un officially) [17:52:03] the problem is over the last 2 or so months maiatoday has had other more important things to be doing so has helped see so, and it started to show how little I am doing for ubuntu-za [17:52:37] drubin is there a reference somewhere where one can see what a loco contact typically does? [17:52:39] not that I was ever trying to hide it from any one, It just worked out that I did offical paper work stuffs and maia did an amazing job at events [17:52:51] what is the official structure of the loco team [17:53:06] understandable, this is all above and beyond stuff... [17:53:07] Queery: We don't have one (and I don't think we should) [17:53:33] the loco contacts are the point of contact between the loco council and us (as I understand it), and that's about it [17:53:35] if we have a list of things we want to do then maybe we can delegate some tasks which would help [17:53:54] but the reason I am brining it is, is I have no problem continuing to do what I have been doing for the last almost 3 years BUT I do feel that some one with fresh blood and more motivation can do more for ubuntu-za then I can at the momment [17:53:57] well then drubin is doing a great job because he is our contact [17:54:19] tumbleweed: yes, but we ubuntu-za take loco-contact as being the "TeamLeader" and "Driving force" [17:54:22] pointing out there is a generalized LoCo Howto at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto [17:54:30] * nlsthzn thinks delegation is the name of the team game [17:54:43] but it is always a good idea to step away before you fall down dead :) [17:54:43] because every one ha always asked me "can I do this" which is kinda not the way things should work IMHO [17:54:54] * tumbleweed would happily serve as a contact, for the paperwork side, but I don't have the time/energy left to be a decent leader / driving force [17:54:58] [17:54:58] maiatoday: Hence brining it up [17:55:15] tumbleweed: that can work if we can find some one to handle the other side of things [17:55:22] this kinda the way maiatoday and I did things [17:55:43] tumbleweed: I am planning to continue to do whatever I dream up to do, but I will have sparser time slots this year [17:55:54] so whoever becomes the contact will have my support [17:55:58] so delegating tasks out to more people, making lighter work for everyone [17:56:00] i am more than willing to halp with organising events [17:56:04] tumbleweed: And mine. [17:56:08] Queery: awesome! [17:56:17] but I just think the offical title needs to be moved on to some one else [17:56:21] kbmonkey: th problem is one can't delegate to volunteers, somebody has to stand up [17:56:37] err to unnamed volunteers [17:56:37] kbmonkey: Deligation does NOT work in this type of setup [17:56:41] it never has.. [17:56:50] people need to just do stuff [17:56:52] :( [17:56:55] as of this month I have fixed net access, want to help again :) [17:56:57] we call it a do-ocracy [17:57:28] that is why I became contact because I kinda wanted to do stuff so did it, then maia came about and did amazingly awesome stuff with stellenbosch and she did stuff [17:57:30] * nlsthzn finds doing stuff when not knowing what stuff needs done can be... troublesome [17:57:47] any how I have never really cared for the title thing, I just owe it to ubuntu-za to mention this. [17:57:54] nlsthzn: there's nothing that needs to be done really [17:58:04] we just want to do as much as we can :) [17:58:08] I had planned on writing up the wiki page of stuff I do, but my net access was kinda flaky [17:58:11] * maiatoday doesn't know what needs to be done either :) [17:58:22] i think that we need atleast oe rep per region [17:58:32] cool, at least I am on the same page as you guys then :p [17:58:43] maiatoday: I think we need more of what you did last year (but by every one around the country) more in person meetings/events [17:58:56] I agree [17:59:00] honestly the paper work/team reports/ML is nothing and takes 2mins [17:59:01] agee [17:59:02] and it's fun and easy too [17:59:07] I like that idea [17:59:11] maiatoday: but requires motivation [17:59:25] * nlsthzn thinks drubin is fine as the guy with the title [17:59:27] kbmonkey: You do *not* need to be loco contact to do any of those things [17:59:45] can we set up a list of things we need/want to do [18:00:02] the problem I have with finding a new person is that almost all people that want to do it are people that haven't done it before [18:00:06] Queery: that's a good chuck of what these meetings are about [18:00:13] Okay drubin [18:00:14] drubin: so are we proposing that maiatoday or tumbleweed become team contact(s)? [18:00:19] not that experience is the issue the issue is driving motivation [18:00:10] chunk [18:00:26] superfly: I'd like to see somebody newer stand up [18:00:37] which is why Queery is a good candidate [18:00:41] ie the "get up and do atitude" [18:00:45] ubuntu hour and release parties are the main events at the moment [18:01:04] drubin, I'd like to nominate myself, but also propose we nominate at least two [18:01:16] kbmonkey, nlsthzn not that I think you wouldn't make a good candidate that isn't what I am saying. [18:01:21] and i am more than willing [18:01:21] the Ubuntu wiki mentions "at least one" [18:01:26] I am saying that having a title changes nothing [18:01:27] I think it is good if there is more than one person [18:01:45] however, if having a title gives someone motivation, then awesome :) [18:01:48] you need to continue to do what you have already been doing [18:02:05] * nlsthzn is to far away... but will always help if possible, when and where [18:02:06] will people not feel more obliged to do things with a title? although i agree this isn't the best way to look at i [18:02:11] maiatoday: per region? [18:02:17] * drubin is uses the term "we" to be whole ubuntu-za [18:02:27] s/we/you [18:02:44] I think team contacts communicating between another often is good motivation [18:03:07] so we have two nominations? [18:03:17] (or nominees) [18:03:52] * superfly has a few other things to do this evening and is hoping the meeting will roll quickly [18:04:01] i nominate maia and myself for stellenbosch/ct [18:04:17] * Kerbero nominate queery too :P [18:04:26] s [18:04:26] And myself for Durban [18:04:27] or at least ct [18:04:43] Banlam: I have been contact since 2009 it is time to get rid of the old people [18:05:03] we do need single contact for the loco-council though [18:05:06] that was aimed at me because? [18:05:19] Banlam: can't remember ;/ oops [18:05:22] :P [18:05:26] Banlam: I think I started typing something else [18:05:31] lets nominate banlam [18:05:41] maiatoday: for loco-council contact? [18:05:43] i respectfully decline [18:05:54] hang on, are we looking for contact or more people to do stuff [18:06:04] * nlsthzn thinks the wider loco should be included via mailing list maybe? [18:06:19] I don't have time for the admin role, but I am not intending to stop organising whatever I want to organise :) [18:06:34] same here [18:06:54] is local council contact diff than team contact? [18:06:58] does the loco contact need to be ubuntu member? [18:07:12] nope [18:07:27] but must have signed the code of conduct etc [18:07:27] Sorry should have been more clear this meeting is NOT to decide who to replace me [18:07:35] but rather how we should go about it [18:07:52] nlsthzn is completely right we aren't going to pick any one now. [18:08:02] drubin: oh, nominations and then elections at the next meeting? [18:08:05] nlsthzn: and should preferably be an ubuntumember OR working towards it [18:08:12] that should happen on the mailing list [18:08:16] superfly: IMHO elections are pointless [18:08:43] we give every one in ubuntu-za (ie the mailing list) a chance to vote and most of them either don't care or they don't have a clue who does stuff around here [18:09:04] however, I'd like to see some new blood helping to organise things [18:09:06] instead of elections, lets nominate ourselves, try set up some system, and see how it works [18:09:18] but you give them the choice [18:10:25] We do want to give someone who is keen but hesitant a chance to jump in and help too [18:10:38] maiatoday: with out a doubt [18:10:53] but that is the problem with voting..... would those people get voted in? [18:11:23] so I propose that people elect themselves and then the smaller group of self elected people figure out what to do next [18:11:30] Either way I will continue to do my useless thing and deal with the ML's / website / ubuntu hours / Ubuntu release parties [18:11:31] the discussion and nominations can happen on the mailing list and voting on the irc [18:11:42] but I do think that by after this release party we should kick me out :) [18:11:47] not useless drubin, you are too modest [18:12:09] agree [18:12:14] ubuntu-za rocks and so too all that make it happen [18:12:19] it really isn't that must work [18:12:24] much* [18:12:32] Yes if you feel to bring in new people drubin I agree, it would help others learn the proces too! [18:12:50] any how think we should can this this "quick" meeting has gone on for 1:15mins :) [18:13:15] kbmonkey: I have NO intention of just disapearing just don't want to be offical any more [18:13:16] ok so do we send a call for self-election out on the ML as an action, and move on? [18:13:33] and we haven't even gotten to the bashing SU studnets part.... [18:13:37] Maaz: Agreed drubin will post to the ML about self nominations [18:13:37] Agreed: drubin will post to the ML about self nominations [18:13:40] second maiatoday [18:13:56] I thought so :) [18:13:58] Tonberry: ? [18:13:59] [18:14:01] what did I miss [18:14:11] UCT LEG stand got >100 sign-ups, mostly beginners. How about Stellies? Can we do anything for these beginners that's more technical than a release party? [18:14:16] that part [18:14:28] Tonberry: margo wasn't here and no one really knew what else to say [18:14:33] ah [18:14:36] k [18:14:39] Tonberry: you can speak for stellies if you want? :) [18:14:47] what happened when Kerbero handed out the ubuntu discs to all the first year BSC people? [18:14:49] wow stellies has a big turn out in here [18:14:58] was there any follow up? [18:14:58] already did [18:15:00] i wont have anything good to say.... [18:15:00] or feedback? [18:15:05] about 100 of them [18:15:12] herad nothing yet [18:15:18] will go and ask osmetime [18:15:22] ok [18:15:30] * maiatoday hopes they aren't using them as beer coasters [18:15:32] Maaz: agreeed Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out [18:15:32] drubin: Excuse me? [18:15:37] stellies is in a rut, ill try to get them out [18:15:40] Maaz: agreed Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out [18:15:40] Agreed: Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out [18:15:47] the server edition cds make great beer coasters.... [18:15:52] hehe ja [18:15:56] Queery: No actually stellies is doing the most events/stuff out of the whole country [18:15:59] dis crap om met so baie van hulle te sit [18:16:02] agree [18:16:22] but few of the ones participating are students [18:16:23] * nlsthzn wants some to be shipped to the UAE ;) [18:16:24] nlsthzn kbmonkey: The location thing *really* is kinda helps btw [18:16:35] we do need more people around SA [18:16:38] stellies it self is just attending ubuntu-za events [18:16:47] Any one else have any thing to say? [18:16:54] my dvorak fail [18:17:12] wie gaan die volgende sulug beer evening reel? [18:17:20] baie valid vraag [18:17:21] lol [18:17:32] sulug!=ubuntu-za [18:17:35] i think that's specific top stellenbosch [18:17:36] so? [18:17:37] yeah [18:17:40] ons run basies sulug [18:17:41] and not really for discussion here [18:17:51] * Kerbero gaan slaap maar weer [18:17:55] every single person that comes bar gareth is an ubuntu user [18:18:00] agree [18:18:00] Maaz: End meeting }}} ---- ZATeam