Ubuntu Wiki

Agenda

• Review minutes of previous meeting (meeting chair)

• What plans do we have for 2011, especially since we have a banner and a table cloth

  • UCT LEG stand got >100 sign-ups, mostly beginners. How about Stellies? Can we do anything for these beginners that's more technical than a release party?

  • UbuntuDeveloperWeek next week.

  • Global Jam 1-4 April (http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/567/detail/)

  • Natty release party. Cape Town this time? More public venue?
  • Ben's hacking contest. Ubuntu ZA involvement at all?
• Loco-Contact replacement (drubin)
  • How do we go about finding new Contact (drubin)

  • Review wiki page ZATeam/LocoContact (drubin will create wiki page)

  • Find way to share required passwords. (DNS admin, MailMan, Ubuntu-za-website [less of an issue because of shared access])

• Agenda item 2 (TopicLeader)

  • More details (optional)

Summary

Minutes
=======

[17:36:01] STARTED (drubin)
[17:50:36] TOPIC: Loco-Contact replacement (drubin)
[18:13:37] AGREED: drubin will post to the ML about self nominations (drubin)
[18:15:40] AGREED: Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out (drubin)
[18:18:00] ENDED (drubin)

Present
=======

* |3o|3
* Maia Grotepass (maiatoday)
* David Rubin (drubin)
* Kerbero
* Dewald Noeth (Queery)
* Michael Gorven (cocooncrash)
* Wesley Werner (kbmonkey)
* Arthur Rilke (arthurrilke)
* Hendrik van Wyk (Tonberry)
* Raoul Snyman (superfly)
* Gareth Cawood (Banlam)
* Stefano Rivera (tumbleweed)
* pascal`
* Neil Oosthuizen (nlsthzn)

Log

Detail Log

[17:36:01] <drubin> Maaz: Start meeting
[17:36:01] * Maaz gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles
[17:36:18] <tumbleweed> Maaz: I am Stefano Rivera
[17:36:18] <Maaz> tumbleweed: Done
[17:36:20] <superfly> Maaz: I am Raoul Snyman
[17:36:20] <Maaz> superfly: Sure
[17:36:23] <maiatoday> Maaz: I am Maia Grotepass
[17:36:23] <Maaz> maiatoday: Done
[17:36:23] <drubin> Hi guys agenda for this meeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/Meetings/20110221
[17:36:27] <drubin> Maaz: I am David Rubin
[17:36:27] <Maaz> drubin: Sure
[17:36:34] <nlsthzn> Maaz: I am Neil Oosthuizen
[17:36:34] <Maaz> nlsthzn: Sure
[17:36:36] <kbmonkey> Maaz: I am Wesley Werner
[17:36:36] <Maaz> kbmonkey: Okay
[17:36:38] <Queery> maaz: i am Dewald Noeth
[17:36:38] <Maaz> Queery: Yessir
[17:36:44] <arthurrilke> maaz: i am Arthur Rilke
[17:36:44] <Maaz> arthurrilke: Done
[17:36:45] <drubin> So any one that feels like telling us who they are is free to tell the bot just like we did
[17:37:00] <Tonberry> Maaz: i am Hendrik van Wyk
[17:37:00] <Maaz> Tonberry: Righto
[17:37:01] <Banlam> maazL I am Gareth Cawood
[17:37:05] <Banlam> fail
[17:37:09] <Banlam> maaz: I am Gareth Cawood
[17:37:09] <Maaz> Banlam: Done
[17:37:30] <drubin> So basically welcome to any one that hasn't attended an online IRC meeting before
[17:37:39] <cocooncrash> Maaz: I am Michael Gorven
[17:37:39] <Maaz> cocooncrash: Okay
[17:37:49] <kbmonkey> (For those using XChat, you can use the TAB key to auto-complete names :))
[17:38:03] <drubin> we seem to have lots of new people and some rather old people lurking around so welcome! To the first meeting of the year
[17:38:24] <Queery> thanx drubin
[17:38:29] <drubin> Sorry we have been kinda slack about events/meetup/meetings but December is kinda dead time for most people
[17:38:45] <drubin> marcog: are you around for your agenda points?
[17:39:24] <Queery> he seems to be away
[17:39:31] <drubin> either way moving onto point 1: Review previous minutes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/Meetings/20101213
[17:40:14] * nlsthzn sees his name on the minutes and is happy :)
[17:40:24] <drubin> maiatoday: Do you remember if you mailed the list about open office?
[17:40:43] <maiatoday> no I didn't
[17:40:47] <maiatoday> I remember, I didn't
[17:41:28] <drubin> Ok it would be nice to do something like that soon since schools are actually struggling with the whole MS not renewing their licenses thing
[17:41:48] <drubin> Maybe it would be cool if we could find some one on the OO/Libre office team to help us write something up?
[17:41:52] <maiatoday> ok let me take that action point again
[17:41:53] * nlsthzn wonders, openoffice or libre office?
[17:42:17] <tumbleweed> so, I went to a meeting with the western cape school IT support people last month
[17:42:29] <tumbleweed> they're all pretty afraid of OSS
[17:42:30] <drubin> tumbleweed: tell us more
[17:42:57] * tumbleweed was there with my supervisor, and we were doing a talk on OSS
[17:43:02] <Tonberry> does their curriculum not require the use of ms office?
[17:43:18] <drubin> Tonberry: yes but that can be changed.... (theoretically)
[17:43:25] <tumbleweed> his message was "be careful, OSS doesn't guarantee lower TCO" but also that he supports it and uses it
[17:43:48] <tumbleweed> there were all sorts of concerns and questions, but basically, I don't see much changing
[17:43:53] <drubin> since MS is no longer free and the goverment requires that they explore FLOSS they can't make it MS specific any more
[17:44:03] <Tonberry> oh
[17:44:03] <tumbleweed> there aren't enough staff, and they loose the good people...
[17:44:05] <Tonberry> cool
[17:44:28] <Queery> i like that
[17:44:33] <drubin> Tonberry: the problem isn't the technical exams.. it is training the teachers to be able to teach FOSS stuff
[17:44:43] <drubin> training + supporting it
[17:44:45] <tumbleweed> drubin: yes, but there's obviously significant motivation to stay with the status quo here
[17:44:50] <Tonberry> ok
[17:45:09] <nlsthzn> ppl fear change :/
[17:45:13] <drubin> tumbleweed: true, doesn't mean we shouldn't try
[17:45:17] <Tonberry> but it would mean that all the schools have to change and not just some of them?
[17:45:37] <drubin> Tonberry: Most of the stuff can be done in OO provided they alter the wording/marking sheet SLIGHTLY
[17:45:39] <tumbleweed> quite simply, switching major packages would require re-training, which iwon't be cheap
[17:45:41] <kbmonkey> I propose we investigate current LO issues first, I heard there were a couple major stability issues
[17:46:15] <tumbleweed> but yes, nothing will happen unless someone pushes them
[17:46:22] <drubin> kbmonkey: stability isn't their major concern as tumbly pointed out it is the proccess/traning/money
[17:46:35] <Tonberry> code can be fixed
[17:46:38] <tumbleweed> and the concern that "this isn't whaht th industry uses"
[17:46:44] 
[17:47:02] <kbmonkey> so getting them to adopt OSS is the hurdle
[17:47:03] <nlsthzn> any plan for change will have to be long term
[17:47:14] <Banlam> are schools really concerned about what the industry uses?
[17:47:16] <drubin> tumbleweed: I guess that is why they are pushing delphi in schools right?
[17:47:19] <Queery> I think most of the staff knows the old ms office and OOO is very much like it, that might help get them to move over to it
[17:47:26] <tumbleweed> Banlam: yes, schools in general are very concious of industry
[17:47:26] <Tonberry> haha @ delphi
[17:47:41] <drubin> Banlam: Yes they are "training students to become competent in the work place"
[17:47:54] <Banlam> ok, they never really relayed that to us when i was in school :P
[17:47:55] <Tonberry> i thought they were on java these days
[17:47:56] <drubin> tumbleweed: I think education department more then schools
[17:48:19] <drubin> Banlam: "trying" doesn't mean they are good at it :(
[17:48:22] <Banlam> tonberry, lots of private/ieb schools are on delphi
[17:48:34] <tumbleweed> drubin: I took industry more seriously when I was in school than I do now
[17:48:36] <Tonberry> poor things
[17:48:45] <drubin> I don't think us debating this in this channel right now is going to solve stuff though...
[17:48:55] <tumbleweed> I think some good case studies would be a start
[17:49:08] <tumbleweed> people pushing their own children's schools to experiment...
[17:49:10] <drubin> tumbleweed: True but where/who/how do we go about that
[17:49:12] <Queery> i agree
[17:49:51] <drubin> Any one have any thing more on this or can we move on?
[17:49:59] <tumbleweed> no, lets move on
[17:50:19] <drubin> I am going to move stuff around slightly because my point effects the events for 2011
[17:50:36] <drubin> Maaz: Topic Loco-Contact replacement
[17:50:36] <Maaz> Current Topic: Loco-Contact replacement
[17:50:57] <drubin> So basically over the last few months I have not been doing enough.
[17:51:26] <drubin> maiatoday has honestly been helping me far far beyond what is required and been the driving force behind ubuntu-za (un officially)
[17:52:03] <drubin> the problem is over the last 2 or so months maiatoday has had other more important things to be doing so has helped see so, and it started to show how little I am doing for ubuntu-za
[17:52:37] <maiatoday> drubin is there a reference somewhere where one can see what a loco contact typically does?
[17:52:39] <drubin> not that I was ever trying to hide it from any one, It just worked out that I did offical paper work stuffs and maia did an amazing job at events
[17:52:51] <Queery> what is the official structure of the loco team
[17:53:06] <nlsthzn> understandable, this is all above and beyond stuff...
[17:53:07] <drubin> Queery: We don't have one (and I don't think we should)
[17:53:33] <tumbleweed> the loco contacts are the point of contact between the loco council and us (as I understand it), and that's about it
[17:53:35] <maiatoday> if we have a list of things we want to do then maybe we can delegate some tasks which would help
[17:53:54] <drubin> but the reason I am brining it is, is I have no problem continuing to do what I have been doing for the last almost 3 years BUT I do feel that some one with fresh blood and more motivation can do more for ubuntu-za then I can at the momment
[17:53:57] <maiatoday> well then drubin is doing a great job because he is our contact
[17:54:19] <drubin> tumbleweed: yes, but we ubuntu-za take loco-contact as being the "TeamLeader" and "Driving force" 
[17:54:22] <kbmonkey> pointing out there is a generalized LoCo Howto at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
[17:54:30] * nlsthzn thinks delegation is the name of the team game
[17:54:43] <maiatoday> but it is always a good idea to step away before you fall down dead :)
[17:54:43] <drubin> because every one ha always asked me "can I do this" which is kinda not the way things should work IMHO
[17:54:54] * tumbleweed would happily serve as a contact, for the paperwork side, but I don't have the time/energy left to be a decent leader / driving force
[17:54:58] 
[17:54:58] <drubin> maiatoday: Hence brining it up
[17:55:15] <drubin> tumbleweed: that can work if we can find some one to handle the other side of things
[17:55:22] <drubin> this kinda the way maiatoday and I did things
[17:55:43] <maiatoday> tumbleweed: I am planning to continue to do whatever I dream up to do, but I will have sparser time slots this year
[17:55:54] <maiatoday> so whoever becomes the contact will have my support
[17:55:58] <kbmonkey> so delegating tasks out to more people, making lighter work for everyone
[17:56:00] <Queery> i am more than willing to halp with organising events
[17:56:04] <drubin> tumbleweed: And mine.
[17:56:08] <tumbleweed> Queery: awesome!
[17:56:17] <drubin> but I just think the offical title needs to be moved on to some one else
[17:56:21] <tumbleweed> kbmonkey: th problem is one can't delegate to volunteers, somebody has to stand up
[17:56:37] <tumbleweed> err to unnamed volunteers
[17:56:37] <drubin> kbmonkey: Deligation does NOT work in this type of setup
[17:56:41] <drubin> it never has..
[17:56:50] <drubin> people need to just do stuff
[17:56:52] <drubin> :(
[17:56:55] <kbmonkey> as of this month I have fixed net access, want to help again :)
[17:56:57] <tumbleweed> we call it a do-ocracy
[17:57:28] <drubin> that is why I became contact because I kinda wanted to do stuff so did it, then maia came about and did amazingly awesome stuff with stellenbosch and she did stuff
[17:57:30] * nlsthzn finds doing stuff when not knowing what stuff needs done can be... troublesome
[17:57:47] <drubin> any how I have never really cared for the title thing, I just owe it to ubuntu-za to mention this.
[17:57:54] <tumbleweed> nlsthzn: there's nothing that needs to be done really
[17:58:04] <tumbleweed> we just want to do as much as we can :)
[17:58:08] <drubin> I had planned on writing up the wiki page of stuff I do, but my net access was kinda flaky
[17:58:11] * maiatoday doesn't know what needs to be done either :)
[17:58:22] <Queery> i think that we need atleast oe rep per region
[17:58:32] <nlsthzn> cool, at least I am on the same page as you guys then :p
[17:58:43] <drubin> maiatoday: I think we need more of what you did last year (but by every one around the country) more in person meetings/events
[17:58:56] <maiatoday> I agree
[17:59:00] <drubin> honestly the paper work/team reports/ML is nothing and takes 2mins
[17:59:01] <Queery> agee
[17:59:02] <maiatoday> and it's fun and easy too
[17:59:07] <kbmonkey> I like that idea 
[17:59:11] <drubin> maiatoday: but requires motivation 
[17:59:25] * nlsthzn thinks drubin is fine as the guy with the title 
[17:59:27] <drubin> kbmonkey: You do *not* need to be loco contact to do any of those things
[17:59:45] <Queery> can we set up a list of things we need/want to do
[18:00:02] <drubin> the problem I have with finding a new person is that almost all people that want to do it are people that haven't done it before
[18:00:06] <tumbleweed> Queery: that's a good chuck of what these meetings are about
[18:00:13] <kbmonkey> Okay drubin 
[18:00:14] <superfly> drubin: so are we proposing that maiatoday or tumbleweed become team contact(s)?
[18:00:19] <drubin> not that experience is the issue the issue is driving motivation
[18:00:10] <tumbleweed> chunk
[18:00:26] <tumbleweed> superfly: I'd like to see somebody newer stand up
[18:00:37] <maiatoday> which is why Queery is a good candidate
[18:00:41] <drubin> ie the "get up and do atitude"
[18:00:45] <Queery> ubuntu hour and release parties are the main events at the moment
[18:01:04] <kbmonkey> drubin, I'd like to nominate myself, but also propose we nominate at least two 
[18:01:16] <drubin> kbmonkey, nlsthzn not that I think you wouldn't make a good candidate that isn't what I am saying.
[18:01:21] <Queery> and i am more than willing
[18:01:21] <kbmonkey> the Ubuntu wiki mentions "at least one"
[18:01:26] <drubin> I am saying that having a title changes nothing
[18:01:27] <maiatoday> I think it is good if there is more than one person
[18:01:45] <tumbleweed> however, if having a title gives someone motivation, then awesome :)
[18:01:48] <drubin> you need to continue to do what you have already been doing
[18:02:05] * nlsthzn is to far away... but will always help if possible, when and where 
[18:02:06] <Banlam> will people not feel more obliged to do things with a title? although i agree this isn't the best way to look at i
[18:02:11] <Queery> maiatoday: per region?
[18:02:17] * drubin is uses the term "we" to be whole ubuntu-za
[18:02:27] <drubin> s/we/you
[18:02:44] <kbmonkey> I think team contacts communicating between another often is good motivation
[18:03:07] <superfly> so we have two nominations?
[18:03:17] <superfly> (or nominees)
[18:03:52] * superfly has a few other things to do this evening and is hoping the meeting will roll quickly
[18:04:01] <Queery> i nominate maia and myself for stellenbosch/ct
[18:04:17] * Kerbero nominate queery too :P
[18:04:26] <Tonberry> s
[18:04:26] <kbmonkey> And myself for Durban
[18:04:27] <Queery> or at least ct
[18:04:43] <drubin> Banlam: I have been contact since 2009 it is time to get rid of the old people
[18:05:03] <drubin> we do need single contact for the loco-council though
[18:05:06] <Banlam> that was aimed at me because?
[18:05:19] <drubin> Banlam: can't remember ;/ oops
[18:05:22] <Banlam> :P
[18:05:26] <drubin> Banlam: I think I started typing something else
[18:05:31] <Kerbero> lets nominate banlam
[18:05:41] <superfly> maiatoday: for loco-council contact?
[18:05:43] <Banlam> i respectfully decline
[18:05:54] <maiatoday> hang on, are we looking for contact or more people to do stuff
[18:06:04] * nlsthzn thinks the wider loco should be included via mailing list maybe?
[18:06:19] <maiatoday> I don't have time for the admin role, but I am not intending to stop organising whatever I want to organise :)
[18:06:34] <Queery> same here
[18:06:54] <kbmonkey> is local council contact diff than team contact?
[18:06:58] <Queery> does the loco contact need to be ubuntu member?
[18:07:12] <nlsthzn> nope
[18:07:27] <nlsthzn> but must have signed the code of conduct etc
[18:07:27] <drubin> Sorry should have been more clear this meeting is NOT to decide who to replace me
[18:07:35] <drubin> but rather how we should go about it
[18:07:52] <drubin> nlsthzn is completely right we aren't going to pick any one now.
[18:08:02] <superfly> drubin: oh, nominations and then elections at the next meeting?
[18:08:05] <drubin> nlsthzn: and should preferably be an ubuntumember OR working towards it
[18:08:12] <Queery> that should happen on the mailing list
[18:08:16] <drubin> superfly: IMHO elections are pointless
[18:08:43] <drubin> we give every one in ubuntu-za (ie the mailing list) a chance to vote and most of them either don't care or they don't have a clue who does stuff around here
[18:09:04] <tumbleweed> however, I'd like to see some new blood helping to organise things
[18:09:06] <kbmonkey> instead of elections, lets nominate ourselves, try set up some system, and see how it works
[18:09:18] <Queery> but you give them the choice
[18:10:25] <maiatoday> We do want to give someone who is keen but hesitant a chance to jump in and help too
[18:10:38] <drubin> maiatoday: with out a doubt
[18:10:53] <drubin> but that is the problem with voting..... would those people get voted in?
[18:11:23] <maiatoday> so I propose that people elect themselves and then the smaller group of self elected people figure out what to do next
[18:11:30] <drubin> Either way I will continue to do my useless thing and deal with the ML's / website / ubuntu hours / Ubuntu release parties
[18:11:31] <Queery> the discussion and nominations can happen on the mailing list and voting on the irc
[18:11:42] <drubin> but I do think that by after this release party we should kick me out :)
[18:11:47] <maiatoday> not useless drubin, you are too modest
[18:12:09] <Queery> agree
[18:12:14] <nlsthzn> ubuntu-za rocks and so too all that make it happen
[18:12:19] <drubin> it really isn't that must work
[18:12:24] <drubin> much*
[18:12:32] <kbmonkey> Yes if you feel to bring in new people drubin I agree, it would help others learn the proces too!
[18:12:50] <drubin> any how think we should can this this "quick" meeting has gone on for 1:15mins :)
[18:13:15] <drubin> kbmonkey: I have NO intention of just disapearing just don't want to be offical any more
[18:13:16] <maiatoday> ok so do we send a call for self-election out on the ML as an action, and move on?
[18:13:33] <Tonberry> and we haven't even gotten to the bashing SU studnets part....
[18:13:37] <drubin> Maaz: Agreed drubin will post to the ML about self nominations
[18:13:37] <Maaz> Agreed: drubin will post to the ML about self nominations
[18:13:40] <Queery> second maiatoday 
[18:13:56] <kbmonkey> I thought so :)
[18:13:58] <drubin> Tonberry: ?
[18:13:59] 
[18:14:01] <drubin> what did I miss
[18:14:11] <Tonberry> UCT LEG stand got >100 sign-ups, mostly beginners. How about Stellies? Can we do anything for these beginners that's more technical than a release party? 
[18:14:16] <Tonberry> that part
[18:14:28] <drubin> Tonberry: margo wasn't here and no one really knew what else to say
[18:14:33] <Tonberry> ah
[18:14:36] <Tonberry> k
[18:14:39] <drubin> Tonberry: you can speak for stellies if you want? :)
[18:14:47] <Banlam> what happened when Kerbero handed out the ubuntu discs to all the first year BSC people?
[18:14:49] <drubin> wow stellies has a big turn out in here
[18:14:58] <Banlam> was there any follow up?
[18:14:58] <Kerbero> already did
[18:15:00] <Tonberry> i wont have anything good to say....
[18:15:00] <Banlam> or feedback?
[18:15:05] <Kerbero> about 100 of them
[18:15:12] <Kerbero> herad nothing yet
[18:15:18] <Kerbero> will go and ask osmetime
[18:15:22] <Banlam> ok
[18:15:30] * maiatoday hopes they aren't using them as beer coasters
[18:15:32] <drubin> Maaz: agreeed Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out
[18:15:32] <Maaz> drubin: Excuse me?
[18:15:37] <Queery> stellies is in a rut, ill try to get them out
[18:15:40] <drubin> Maaz: agreed Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out
[18:15:40] <Maaz> Agreed: Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out
[18:15:47] <Tonberry> the server edition cds make great beer coasters....
[18:15:52] <Kerbero> hehe ja
[18:15:56] <drubin> Queery: No actually stellies is doing the most events/stuff out of the whole country 
[18:15:59] <Kerbero> dis crap om met so baie van hulle te sit
[18:16:02] <Queery> agree
[18:16:22] <Tonberry> but few of the ones participating are students
[18:16:23] * nlsthzn wants some to be shipped to the UAE ;)
[18:16:24] <drubin> nlsthzn kbmonkey: The location thing *really* is kinda helps btw
[18:16:35] <drubin> we do need more people around SA
[18:16:38] <Queery> stellies it self is just attending ubuntu-za events
[18:16:47] <drubin> Any one else have any thing to say? 
[18:16:54] <Kerbero> my dvorak fail
[18:17:12] <Kerbero> <Banlam> wie gaan die volgende sulug beer evening reel?
[18:17:20] <Kerbero> baie valid vraag
[18:17:21] <Banlam> lol
[18:17:32] <Tonberry> sulug!=ubuntu-za
[18:17:35] <Banlam> i think that's specific top stellenbosch
[18:17:36] <Kerbero> so?
[18:17:37] <Banlam> yeah
[18:17:40] <Kerbero> ons run basies sulug
[18:17:41] <Banlam> and not really for discussion here
[18:17:51] * Kerbero gaan slaap maar weer
[18:17:55] <drubin> every single person that comes bar gareth is an ubuntu user
[18:18:00] <Queery> agree
[18:18:00] <drubin> Maaz: End meeting

ZATeam