Raw Log of meeting on 4/8/08
The log is incomplete, missing last 10 minutes or so of the meeting.
continuing education and skill enhancement of our team, focus on topics samba, mounting, virtualization, security, terminal tipps etc.
Create wiki pages for each Focus Group if they wish to have one. The Wiki group has created one as an example - Beginners/Team/FocusGroups/Wiki. Feel free to add suggestions to that page, but please speak to me before creating a page for your team so I can keep the naming scheme universal. Thanks.
Beginner Team hostname cloaks. set to something for the team such as /ubuntu/beginnersteam/member/ and /ubuntu/beginnersteam/admin
Mailing Lists: What ever happened, and will we use them?
<bodhi_zazen> Start Meeting
<bodhi_zazen> Welcome everyone
<steambot> Sup, man!!! Pound it, bro!
<paultag> st33med: ...
<bodhi_zazen> should we run through the focus groups first or the agenda ?
<Rocket2DMn> kick the bots please, or make them be quiet
* steambot (email@example.com) has left #ubuntuforums-beginners ("Leaving channel")
<paultag> focus first
<bodhi_zazen> OK, focus groups ...
<bodhi_zazen> Wiki team -
<Rocket2DMn> reporting in
<Rocket2DMn> is that my cue?
<bodhi_zazen> go man, anything ?
<Rocket2DMn> groovy, so as an example for other Focus Groups, we made a page for the wiki team, you can view it here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Team/FocusGroups/Wiki
<chanlog> Title: Wiki Focus Group - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)
<Rocket2DMn> the point is to have a separate wiki page for each focus group, if they want, to stay organized since not everybody is in here all the time
<Rocket2DMn> we (the wiki team) would be happy to create the page for you, maybe with a default template, and each team can use that page how they see fit
<spiderbatdad> wow very nice
<bodhi_zazen> Teach is best ...
<bodhi_zazen> Have we figured out how to delete pages yet ?
<Maddeth> Mind if i?
<bodhi_zazen> If not, I think we should work on that
<Rocket2DMn> I want to point out that the Beginners area of the wiki is not really for writing Help documents
<st33med> wiki team wil make a page for compositing?
<Maddeth> on the UGA if we just erase everything on a page the page disapears
<bodhi_zazen> Maddeth, what ?
<Rocket2DMn> the wiki is for us to stay organized, Help documents can be written under the appropriate Community area
<bodhi_zazen> Yea, it is a little different on the Ubuntu wiki
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, to have a page deleted it must be submitted to the official Wiki Team to deal with, see here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiToDo
<chanlog> Title: WikiToDo - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)
<Maddeth> ok just seeing if i could help... shutting up
<bodhi_zazen> Please do not add help documents on the Community wiki if you do not know how !!!
<bodhi_zazen> Ask for help
<Rocket2DMn> feel free to talk to me about that
<Rocket2DMn> The wiki system has a logn string of different pages telling you how to use the wiki, its rather annoying
<bodhi_zazen> Yea, the Ubuntu wiki is a little difficult to learn , IMO at least
<Rocket2DMn> So, team leaders, please let me know later if you want a Focus Group page for your team
<bodhi_zazen> Anything else for the wiki team ?
<Rocket2DMn> you can email me your request if i'm not around - (REMOVED FROM LOG)
<bodhi_zazen> If not, IRC
<st33med> I wouldn't know if compositing would need it, since it isn't all to big
<Rocket2DMn> thats ok st33med , we can discuss it later, i just wanted to present the idea today
<bodhi_zazen> How is our new channel ?
<Rocket2DMn> that is all from me, you may continue bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Should we continue it, change the name, delete it ?
<bodhi_zazen> #beginners-help ??
<st33med> Our new channel has a few people coming in sometimes
<st33med> it is pretty useful
<bodhi_zazen> Nice, do we help them ?
<spiderbatdad> is it ok to invite folks there for one on one help now?
<bodhi_zazen> brb ...
<paultag> I think we just need to promote it more -- but not enough to make it #ubuntu
<bodhi_zazen> +1 paultag
<st33med> Only for major incidents
<Rocket2DMn> cant let ourselves become victims of our own success in there
<paultag> Link in sigs, perhaps, or the Wiki?
<Maddeth> well i dont mind sitting in there and lending a hand now and then...
<paultag> If I am idle, I would love to help
<st33med> Redirect those with minor problems back to #ubuntu if it gets worse?
<bodhi_zazen> I am in the channel from time to time, ping me if you need help
<Rocket2DMn> paultag, info in forum sigs is good, i wouldnt advertise it outside the Beginner's Wiki area tho
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: +1
<bodhi_zazen> I would not advertise the channel on the forums too much
<bodhi_zazen> PM is OK, but you will get swamped if you over do it
<bodhi_zazen> I like the idea of inviting from #ubuntu
<st33med> We should have done these meetings more often than before a month ago
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: agreed, but if we have 3 - 6 of us in there helping at most 2 people, I dont see too much use
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, that is true, i think thats why paultag said signature, not really advertising iut in threads
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: yeah
<spiderbatdad> bodhi_zazen in a pm from #ubuntu or openly?
<bodhi_zazen> I was thinking PM on forums
<st33med> PM spiderbatdad
<bodhi_zazen> ./msg on #ubutu
* Joeb454 forgot it was meeting day
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo Joeb454 , me too
<Joeb454> i tend to pull people over from #ubuntu to #beginners-help
<paultag> we dont want people asking how to use aptitude comming through, when someone in #ubuntu could help with a one liner
<st33med> wow, kinda sad when our leader has memory lapses
<bodhi_zazen> lol, that is a strong trait in a leader
<Joeb454> they wouldn't come through paultag
<Rocket2DMn> st33med, thats why he needs peons to remind him
<st33med> paultag, we could redirect them to #ubuntu
<paultag> Joeb454: if we start trying to redirect everyone there though
<paultag> st33med: yeah
<bodhi_zazen> It is your channel and I was planning to be fairly hands off, with the exception of helping
<bodhi_zazen> Slow growth is IMO better then explosive growth
<paultag> I think so
<bodhi_zazen> best provide quality support then flop because you are too busy
<paultag> but 2 - 3 people is not what we had in mind I think
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: +1
<bodhi_zazen> Well, if you hang on #ubuntu you can invite like 1 a mintue ...
<Joeb454> paultag, I mean pull people from #ubuntu if it's not a simple 1 line answer
<bodhi_zazen> OK, forums then ?
<st33med> I would want to invite only those with bad problems bodhi_zazen
<Rocket2DMn> agreed, and please introduce those users to pastebin
<bodhi_zazen> or anything else to add to IRC ?
<bodhi_zazen> st33med, only invite those with problems I know the answer to
<st33med> lol, don't know if I can with your memory loss
<bodhi_zazen> hmm ...
<bodhi_zazen> I see no issues on the Forums
<bodhi_zazen> I have been impressed with the team in general and it is nice to see
<st33med> Nothing really there, not even spammers about bad commands
<Rocket2DMn> onthe topic of forums, support our man GSF - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=747991
<chanlog> Title: For a fellow team member - Ubuntu Forums (at ubuntuforums.org)
<bodhi_zazen> We try to keep the forums clean
<bodhi_zazen> Launchpad team ?
<bodhi_zazen> do we need someone to replace Toxic ?
<bodhi_zazen> Toxicity999, poke, hi
<st33med> nope, but I haven't seen him in the longest time
<bodhi_zazen> are you feeling you want to turn the Launchpad team over ?
<st33med> oh, what about bots in IRC?
<bodhi_zazen> bots on this channel ?
<paultag> st33med: launchpad now
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, why don't we postpone the LP discussions unti lwe can get ahold of Toxicity999
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen, howcome nothlit has op in here btw?
<bodhi_zazen> anyone want to talk about bots ?
<Joeb454> too many bots boil the broth
<paultag> I think so
<paultag> I have contributed to it, but I think its becoming out of hand
<bodhi_zazen> nothlit helped a great deal with this channel and the team , at first
<paultag> and if we do allow bots, then we need to keep them quiet
<Rocket2DMn> im mixed on the bots, i know they are fun, but they can be annoying esp. since they don't serve a purpose
<bodhi_zazen> he has been busy recently
<st33med> limit of two bots in #beginners-help?
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: recbot is sweet
<ajmorris> spiderbatdad: certain language creates an unintelligent atmosphere.
<bodhi_zazen> I say lets limit the bots to one per channel ?
<bodhi_zazen> at the most
* steambot (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #ubuntuforums-beginners
<bodhi_zazen> they are fun but ...
* ajmorris has quit (Remote closed the connection)
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, keep ubotu and chanlog
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: +1
<bodhi_zazen> can we have one communal bot everyone works on ?
<paultag> I think that is resoble
<paultag> st33med: ...
<bodhi_zazen> I liked boshi_bot
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen, thanks for that
<paultag> mine is the most feature complete :P
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: +1
<steambot> Stop smiling at me... You look crazy when you do that.
<paultag> I say the chan bots, then one bot that we can mess with
<bodhi_zazen> OK, so I think it is agreed to tone down the bots
<paultag> and no joining / quiting every two seconds
<bodhi_zazen> +1 paultag
<Rocket2DMn> debug your bots elsewhere ppl
<paultag> PMs work great
<Rocket2DMn> thats basically what we're getting at
<bodhi_zazen> OK, Security team
<st33med> yes, my bot in there (as it is the least profane) and bhb
<bodhi_zazen> nothing to reoort
<bodhi_zazen> tronyx, are you wanting to be on the security team ?
<Joeb454> bhb won't leave unless I kill my server
<Rocket2DMn> /bot discussions
<Joeb454> tronyx == security team lol
<paultag> tronyx: ping
<st33med> &ping | tronyx
<steambot> tronyx, Do not respond, do not respond...
<bodhi_zazen> composting team ?
<st33med> Nothing really to report
<Rocket2DMn> what is compositing team
<bodhi_zazen> OK, agenda items then ...
<bodhi_zazen> composting = decomposing thing
<st33med> Rocket2DMn, stuff like compiz
<Rocket2DMn> ok, can you make note of that on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Team/FocusGroups/
<Rocket2DMn> look at IRC and Wiki team for examples, like a oneliner at the bottom
<bodhi_zazen> OK, "training"
* chanlog` (email@example.com.VIC.netspace.net.au) has joined #ubuntuforums-beginners
<bodhi_zazen> is the team interested in training ?
* chanlog has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<bodhi_zazen> teaching ?
<paultag> to a degree
<Rocket2DMn> negative for me
<paultag> I would love to teach what I know, and learn what I dont
<bodhi_zazen> not you paultag , you would be one of the potential teachers
<Rocket2DMn> the IRC channle is a good place to get specific help on a topic if you dont have an answer, that essentially is training
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: but no, I dont think mandatory training is good
<paultag> but I think some opertunity to have people learn without having to ask is a good thing
<Rocket2DMn> we already test newcomers, so nobody here is clueless as to what's going on
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: true, but we cal all learn more
<bodhi_zazen> janquark put it on the agenda, so we should defer it to the next meeting if he did not assign a proxy
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: +1
<Rocket2DMn> we all know where to seek help on topics, and yes, we can all learn more. i don't think training session will be terribly useful tho
<paultag> lets put it off till jan is here
<bodhi_zazen> I think we all learn by doing, as we go
<bodhi_zazen> you can always ask for help here and other places
<Rocket2DMn> +1 bodhi_zazen
<paultag> it would be good to help make that curve better for new users
<st33med> Rocket2DMn, done
<paultag> ok, moving on
<spiderbatdad> havent found a good wiki on chrooting. They are full of holes
<bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn covered wiki pages ...
<bodhi_zazen> spiderbatdad, LOL
<Rocket2DMn> spiderbatdad, bodhi_zazen can help you with that
* Joeb454 is confused
<bodhi_zazen> Joeb454, It was an agenda item
<st33med> training our secret army Joeb454
<spiderbatdad> I'm just saying a good wiki subject
<Joeb454> thanks st33med
<bodhi_zazen> spiderbatdad, I can walk you through a chroot sometime
<bodhi_zazen> After you do it once, it is a snap really
<paultag> for sure
<st33med> what is chroot?
<paultag> st33med: later ill walk you through it
<spiderbatdad> i don't need the help thanks, but it took while due to lack of a good wiki
<paultag> st33med: meeting now
<chanlog`> Title: DebootstrapChroot - Ubuntu Wiki (at wiki.ubuntu.com)
<limac> well, g2g see ya huys
<paultag> limac: bye
<Rocket2DMn> bye limac
<bodhi_zazen> skip to mailing list
* limac (firstname.lastname@example.org) has left #ubuntuforums-beginners ("Leaving")
<bodhi_zazen> we have a mailing list, but it never took off
<paultag> ok, bodhi_zazen: what ever happend?
<bodhi_zazen> IRC seems to work best
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, i think the problem is nobody knows where the mailing list is
<bodhi_zazen> No one really used it but nothlit and I
<paultag> ok, just wanted to bring that up
<Rocket2DMn> how do we add ourselves to it and use it
<steambot> This channel is meant for people who need help very badly, and don't want to go through the #ubuntu channel (Why? because it is crowded). The Beginners Team members are usually signified by a yellow dot or other symbol, depending on what IRC client you are using.
<ubotu> ping yourself really the diodes all down my left side are sore
<Rocket2DMn> if we get the mailing list going again, people, please remember to use text only format in your emails
<bodhi_zazen> here is the link for the team :
<bodhi_zazen> Access is blocked - please contact your system administrator.
<spiderbatdad> st33med so are all ABT members, voiced on that channel?
<st33med> most, spiderbatdad
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, is our email hidden on that mailing list
<bodhi_zazen> Last item
<Joeb454> spiderbatdad, only members of the IRC focus group are voiced in #beginners-help
<Rocket2DMn> and not posted on the web
<paultag> OK, I move to try the Mailing list again
<bodhi_zazen> paultag, team cloaks
<bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn, yes, I think so
<Rocket2DMn> seconded paultag
<bodhi_zazen> I can not access the page at the moment
<paultag> alright, we can do that later
<paultag> moving on to cloaks
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, i submitted a join request on the mailing list
<paultag> I think that we should use cloaks as well as voice to to mark a member
<paultag> as well as putting focus member team leaders as admins
<bodhi_zazen> admins where ?
<paultag> I think this will help in #ubuntu as well as around Freenode
<Rocket2DMn> so this cloak stuff, is this for IRC? we get our own cloak?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: hostname cloaks
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: you have one set to fluxbuntu docs
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: anyone can get an unifileated one
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: I have one
<paultag> I think the team should have a single cloak together
<bodhi_zazen> paultag, cloaks are OK with me, perhaps for senior members of the team or team leaders
<bodhi_zazen> how do we set that up ?
* Joeb454 has a cloak
<Rocket2DMn> sounds cool
<st33med> am I senior?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: I was thinking more one for members, and one for leaders and admins
* Joeb454 should clearly be an op too :P
<bodhi_zazen> I do not want to give a cloak to every new member, sometimes they do not stay long enough
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: ok
<st33med> how about for those with 500+beans on the forums get a cloack
<paultag> st33med: I dont have more them 500 beans
<Joeb454> st33med, does that mean I get 2 cloacks
<paultag> I help when there is a big issue
<bodhi_zazen> paultag, do you know who to talk to about cloaks ?
<Rocket2DMn> i dont think setting a nubmer is the best approach, just leave it up to bodhi_zazen when to dish out a cloak
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: I went too #freenode for mine
<paultag> Rocket2DMn: +1
<bodhi_zazen> I like the idea of giving focus group leaders ops in this channel
<paultag> I think this needs an email to freenode for cloaks
<Joeb454> all Focus Group leaders?
<bodhi_zazen> paultag, do you want to send a email ?
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, i only got ahold of nothlit once, im not sure if he still wants leadership of Wiki team
<Joeb454> b/c we have like 5 focus groups
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: sure, Ill take care of it
<bodhi_zazen> OK thanks
<st33med> I can has cloakz
<bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn, next time nothlit is here I will ask him
<paultag> I think bodhi_zazen should control cloaks
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen, who are the F.G ops?
<bodhi_zazen> Until then lets assume not, but not make it official until we have had a chance to talk to him ?
<Rocket2DMn> sure bodhi_zazen , no hurry
<Joeb454> me ajorris, Rocket2DMn , and then who?
<bodhi_zazen> If no appearance by next meeting we will make it official by absence
<Joeb454> i thought you were
<Rocket2DMn> who is igknighted anyway
* Joeb454 has never seen ignknighted
* Rocket2DMn has to leave in 10 minutes
<st33med> Toxicity999, DrSmall, and tronyx
<bodhi_zazen> That is what I mean by people comming and going ...
<Rocket2DMn> moving on
<chanlog`> Title: Beginner's Team Focus Groups - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: this is what I will be doing with the cloaks: http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml
<chanlog`> Title: Group Registration (at freenode.net)
<bodhi_zazen> paultag, I do not know much about cloaks, so I will be learning "on the fly"
<bodhi_zazen> I appreciate your help in this
<paultag> really feel like we are a "real" team
<paultag> on IRC that is
<bodhi_zazen> As long as it is not abused
* bodhi_zazen recalls an event of cloak abuse ...
<spiderbatdad> it already is
<st33med> cloak abuse is what?
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: they will have our names on it, I dont think anyone will do anything
<paultag> st33med: raiding #windows, and posting pr0n
<bodhi_zazen> using your cloak to spam a channel ...
<st33med> paultag, that would be compiledkernels job
<bodhi_zazen> paultag, that too
<paultag> bodhi_zazen: it makes it hard to boot / block / ban you from a chan -- it maskes your IP
<bodhi_zazen> OK, any other agenda itmes ?
<Joeb454> IIRC freenode gets your ip anyway
<bodhi_zazen> paultag, I know
<paultag> cool, thats it for me
<bodhi_zazen> the only abuse I know of is spaming ...
<Rocket2DMn> i have a topic for brief discussion
<bodhi_zazen> OK, go ro
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen, I'm curious about this op-ing F.G leaders, but we can talk about that later if you like
<Rocket2DMn> The Unanswered Posts team has a website where they post threads that they respond to, at http://ua.codechunk.net/ - you can't view it in detail unless you're registered with them
<bodhi_zazen> FG ?
<paultag> Focus Groups
<Rocket2DMn> although they use it for all threads (supposedly), i think its a useful tool for posting threads you need help with
* Joeb454 is lazy
<Rocket2DMn> so you can flag a thread that you are unable to solve, and other members of this team can go check it out
<Joeb454> Rocket2DMn, I use it for all unanswered posts I answer
<bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn, we could make a wiki page
<bodhi_zazen> add and delete threads
<st33med> that sounds exhausting
<Rocket2DMn> that is true bodhi_zazen , its just not as convenient i think
<bodhi_zazen> Joeb454, I was thinking of giving OP to a few more folks here, I am not always here
<Rocket2DMn> people arent likely to regularly check a wiki page
<st33med> +1 Rocket2DMn
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen, I've noticed that little fact
<Rocket2DMn> anyway, i dont think it would hurt, not like it needs to be mandatory
<Rocket2DMn> ill talk to ajmorris about it and see if it can be adapted
<bodhi_zazen> +10 Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> could be an interesting thing to try out, even if we dont stick with it
<st33med> bodhi_zazen, who will you be giving level 10 status too?
<bodhi_zazen> st33med, I have not decided yet
<Joeb454> st33med, chanlog
<bodhi_zazen> I was thinking ajmorris, paultag , and Joeb454
* Joeb454 feels privileged...though I don't know why
<bodhi_zazen> Unless anyone has any other suggestions ?
<Joeb454> -1million for paultag :P
<bodhi_zazen> If you do not want to voice them in public, /msg me
<paultag> st33med: thanks
<Rocket2DMn> sounds good
<bodhi_zazen> OK, one more topic then
<bodhi_zazen> In my experience, I like to see people come to the channel and hang for a while
<paultag> ok, btw all -- cloak stuff submited to Freenode
<Joeb454> oh and bodhi_zazen I noticed you fixed the typo in your sticky
<bodhi_zazen> I do not feel we need to recruit at the moment
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen, like Maddeth ?
<bodhi_zazen> yea, like Maddeth
<bodhi_zazen> Otherwise, they tend to fly by night and we never see them again
* Joeb454 likes Maddeth...partly because he understands my british humour (yes with a u)
<st33med> including the ninjas
<bodhi_zazen> I am sure we all know team members on the list we have not seen recently
<st33med> nothlit, Toxicity999, igknighted
* Rocket2DMn needs to leave now
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen, actually I saw caprikori the other night
<Rocket2DMn> who is doing the minutes?
<Joeb454> see ya Rocket2DMn
<bodhi_zazen> That is what has happened, and it is OK, but at this time I prefer to recruit more stable members