General Agenda Items and Proposals
PLEASE COME TO THE MEETINGS PREPARED.
This means:
- If there is an issue for the team, add it to the agenda.
- Agenda items then should be discussed "informally" on #ubuntufourms-beginners. 90 % of the discussion should have taken place before the meeting.
- Meetings are primarily for decision making/team votes. Read the agenda and discuss your thoughts before the meeting. 10 % (or less) of the discussion should happen during the meeting.
- Agenda items that require more then 5 minutes of discussion may need to be deferred.
Who |
What |
#ubuntu-beginners-council channel permissions |
Agenda discussion
Log
1 [23:59] <bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
2 [23:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:59. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
3 [23:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
4 [23:59] <bodhi_zazen> Agenda :
5 [23:59] <bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
6 [23:59] <MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
7 [00:00] <bodhi_zazen> looks like you are up nhandler
8 [00:00] <nhandler> A while ago, we decided to make #ubuntu-beginners-council +mz
9 [00:01] <nhandler> This means that only voiced users can talk, and if you are unvoiced, only OPs can see what you say
10 [00:01] <bodhi_zazen> indeed
11 [00:01] <nhandler> This also results in non-voiced users who idle in there being unable to change their nicks
12 [00:01] * bodhi_zazen recalls being over ruled on that one =)
13 [00:01] * Rocket2DMn wasnt there for that one
14 [00:01] <nhandler> Personally, I think +mz is not the best solution
15 [00:02] <nhandler> I personally think we should make the channel invite only
16 [00:02] <bodhi_zazen> well, unless the rest of the team wants to reconsider nhandler
17 [00:02] <bodhi_zazen> that makes the vote
18 [00:02] <bodhi_zazen> 2 against
19 [00:02] <bodhi_zazen> and 100 for =)
20 [00:03] <Rocket2DMn> I'm confused, how steep was the vote last time?
21 [00:03] <bodhi_zazen> I think the channel should be open all the time
22 [00:03] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Several BT members have complained over the last few weeks about being unable to change their nick if they idle there
23 [00:03] <swoody> +1 nhandler
24 [00:03] <bodhi_zazen> and we should +mz only for official business / meetings, if at all
25 [00:03] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: I disagree. Why should our discussions about other members be open to the public?
26 [00:03] <Silver_Fox_> +1 bodhi_zazen
27 === asac_ is now known as asac
28 [00:03] <Rocket2DMn> Should anybody be idling in there other than counci lmembers?
29 [00:03] <nhandler> Most other councils, the RMBs included have secret IRC channels and mailing lists that they use
30 [00:03] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: IMO, no
31 [00:04] <bodhi_zazen> why should we have a closed channel at all =)
32 [00:04] <bodhi_zazen> I like open
33 [00:04] <swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen :)
34 [00:04] <Rocket2DMn> I don't think the channel should be closed, I just don't think people should be idling in there
35 [00:04] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Because one of our main purposes is to deal with user conflicts, which by nature should be done privately
36 [00:04] <Silver_Fox_> i have sat in on a council meeting. i didn't say anything though it was nice to be there.
37 [00:04] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: We could implement a policy similar to #ubuntu-ops, which is open, but there is a strict no idle policy
38 [00:05] <nhandler> You can go there to report an issue, but once the issue has been addressed, you are required to part
39 [00:05] <bodhi_zazen> I think the channel should be open, and closed as needed, which IMO is rare if at all
40 [00:05] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: What are your feelings about a no-idle policy?
41 [00:06] <bodhi_zazen> I feel I will be over ruled =)
42 [00:06] <nhandler> That would allow people to report issues, but would avoid turning the issues into a "show"
43 [00:06] <bodhi_zazen> Whatever you all wish is OK with me
44 [00:06] <nhandler> Any other opinions on a no-idle policy?
45 [00:06] <bodhi_zazen> I think we can manage most of the issues via moderation
46 [00:07] <bodhi_zazen> ask people to leave if needed
47 [00:07] <bodhi_zazen> or change teh channel to +m or what not if needed
48 [00:07] <superbenny> agreed, bodhi_zazen
49 [00:07] <Rocket2DMn> both options sounds ok to me
50 [00:07] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: What is your reasoning behind wanting people to idle in the -council channel?
51 [00:08] <bodhi_zazen> free as in freedom
52 [00:08] <swoody> I agree bodhi_zazen. It doesn't seem like there's been enough 'wild action' in there to require it be closed all the time. I feel a nice open channel will be useful, but make it private the few times you're going to acutally need privacy.
53 [00:08] <bodhi_zazen> I want people to feel they can come and discuss be a part of team decisions / actions
54 [00:08] <tronyx> hmmm not enough people in here
55 [00:09] <superbenny> hehe
56 [00:09] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: That is what the no-idle policy would allow. Users who have an issue would be able to go there, and work with the council to resolve it. However, once the issue is handled, they are required to /part
57 [00:09] <Silver_Fox_> i felt that when i attended bodhi_zazen
58 [00:09] <bodhi_zazen> Why should it be closed all the time ? Just because we occasionally need privacy ?
59 [00:09] <bodhi_zazen> It should be moderated if there is a problem or issue, not cloesd
60 [00:09] <bodhi_zazen> and it is hard to tell sometimes who is involved in an issue
61 [00:09] <Silver_Fox_> is full closure heavy handed?
62 [00:10] <bodhi_zazen> anyone who is interested can pipe in , witnesses if needed to behavior
63 [00:10] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: You can usually tell who is directly involved and should be involved in the discussion
64 [00:10] <bodhi_zazen> I think we loose something if the channel is closed
65 [00:10] <nhandler> They will usually be the ones coming to the council with the issue
66 [00:10] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: The channel would not be closed
67 [00:10] <Rocket2DMn> It seems like most people are in favor of leaving the channel open
68 [00:10] <dvz-> o/ what channel?
69 [00:10] <nhandler> It would actually be more open than it is now
70 [00:10] <nhandler> #ubuntu-beginners-council
71 [00:10] <paultag> I think the Council channel should be Open. The issue is that we need a transparent leadership
72 [00:10] <superbenny> honestly, what is really discussed that is so secretive? i feel like the whole point is an open discussion area where people who have something to contribute are able to
73 [00:10] <paultag> +1 superbenny
74 [00:11] <paultag> The issue is really respect of someone who breaks the rules. We don't want to cause issues with reputation
75 [00:11] <paultag> The best solution to that is to handle most matters over PM
76 [00:11] <swoody> +1 paultag
77 [00:11] <paultag> If the issue is at the Council, it is a big issue and the team should be involved
78 [00:11] <bodhi_zazen> The channel feel closed to me if it is +mz and I am an op =)
79 [00:11] <nhandler> Nobody is saying "secret". All decissions would be made public. But if we are discussing a user's actions, I don't think that non-involved people need to be watching
80 [00:11] <paultag> nhandler, ^
81 [00:11] <superbenny> this is true, but that's where moderation comes in. we have focus groups devoted to IRC, why not let them do their job?
82 [00:12] <Silver_Fox_> are the logs for the council meetings available?
83 [00:12] <nhandler> paultag: With the no-idle policy, people who are actively involved in the issue would be able to participate
84 [00:12] <paultag> nhandler, I understand that
85 [00:12] <nhandler> The whole idea is to get rid of the people who simply idle in there and watch
86 [00:12] <paultag> nhandler, but if it hits council, it's a team move. Any team member should be allowed to idle
87 [00:12] <bodhi_zazen> why do idlers bother you nhandler ?
88 [00:12] <nhandler> This would also be more in line with what almost all other Ubuntu councils do
89 [00:13] <paultag> nhandler, we are a small team. We can still involve everyone
90 [00:13] <superbenny> nhandler, if its going to be made public anyway, why keep it secret for a couple extra minutes? if something sensitive is being discussed, +m so that only people involved can talk, but eventually, the logs are out there anyway.
91 [00:13] <superbenny> +1, paultag
92 [00:13] <paultag> We don't need the MOTU council
93 [00:13] <paultag> that would hurt us a lot
94 [00:13] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Because the users there are watching for entertainment. A good number of them have no interest in working towards a solution
95 [00:13] <Silver_Fox_> unless the logs are edited via snips
96 [00:13] <nhandler> paultag: The MC is actually pretty open
97 [00:13] <bodhi_zazen> Ah I see
98 [00:14] <paultag> nhandler, I take that back. Whatever councils you talk about then.
99 [00:14] <swoody> -1 on the idlers nhandler. There are a lot of team members who like to see what goes on behind the curtain. Having an open channel for council will show members who are curious just how the Council works, and if they feel that would be something they would like to pursue in the future.
100 [00:14] <Rocket2DMn> It's an #ubuntu channel - doesn't that mean the logs are posted directly online?
101 [00:14] <bodhi_zazen> Well, I am not sure about that nhandler
102 [00:14] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: But for instance, the CC has a private mailing list, so does the TB
103 [00:14] <nhandler> #ubuntu-ops has a no-idle policy
104 [00:14] <bodhi_zazen> I think most of the idlers are interested in leadersip
105 [00:14] <nhandler> the RMBs have private lists and irc channels
106 [00:14] <superbenny> editing logs would go against the whole idea of open-source. nothing that we discuss is that life-changing, that it needs to be kept top-secret.
107 [00:14] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: If you look at the logs for our last few discussions, that is not the case
108 [00:14] <bodhi_zazen> either learning by watching or wanting to be a part of the team, I could be wrong
109 [00:14] <nhandler> superbenny: Nobody mentioned editing logs
110 [00:14] <Silver_Fox_> are we #ubuntu-ops ? why do we want to emulate them?
111 [00:15] <bodhi_zazen> and I have never seen anyone take an issue out of the channel and mis use the information
112 [00:15] <superbenny> nhandler, <Silver_Fox_> unless the logs are edited via snips
113 [00:15] <nhandler> Silver_Fox_: We are an Ubuntu Council, so we should be learning from councils like the CC
114 [00:15] <nhandler> superbenny: But nobody said that we would be ;)
115 [00:15] <paultag> I disagree. I think we need leadership that fits our model
116 [00:15] <superbenny> fair enough
117 [00:15] <superbenny> +1 paultag
118 [00:16] <nhandler> paultag: So if we were discussing your poor behavior, you would be fine with everyone watching?
119 [00:16] <tronyx> i agree with paultag
120 [00:16] <paultag> nhandler, any team member should be able to contribute to the discussion about my poor behavior, yes
121 [00:16] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, I think this discussion is wearing out. Are there written guidelines about how Ubuntu Councils should use their resources? If not, I think we can look at other councils, but we don't need to do what they do - we are capable of figuring out what is best for us specifically
122 [00:16] <nhandler> paultag: Contribute is one thing, but should they all be able to sit and watch
123 [00:16] <paultag> nhandler, sure
124 [00:16] <tronyx> imho if it were my poor behavior or paultag's behavior and it is impacting the whole team, everyone is already effected so everyone should be aware of the resolution
125 [00:16] <paultag> nhandler, any team member is directly affected by my behavior
126 [00:16] <superbenny> nhandler, honestly, thats part of the punishment.
127 [00:16] <nhandler> paultag: In that case, I don't think we should have a -council at all
128 [00:16] <superbenny> besides, the logs will be made public anyway
129 [00:16] <nhandler> Just do it all in the main IRC channel
130 [00:16] <paultag> nhandler, I disagree with that
131 [00:17] <paultag> nhandler, I think the council is a quiet corner to do that in
132 [00:17] <swoody> nhandler: I believe paultag mentioned about using PM's before. I feel that anything that is not severe enough should be public, and for those things which are too much for a public channel can be expressed via PM
133 [00:17] <paultag> +1 swoody
134 [00:17] <superbenny> +1 swoody
135 [00:17] <paultag> I always handle issues over PM before they hit council
136 [00:17] <nhandler> swoody: PMs are only for 1 on 1, not a group chat
137 [00:18] <superbenny> right, but why make it a group chat if someone just needs a warning?
138 [00:18] <nhandler> paultag: If everyone is idling in there and "participating" it is not any more quiet than the main channel
139 [00:18] <paultag> I say we defer this
140 [00:18] <bodhi_zazen> I think nhandler has a point, but ...
141 [00:18] <bodhi_zazen> only to a point
142 [00:18] <swoody> nhandler: well as bodhi_zazen also suggested, maybe that would be the time to use moderation power to make the #council channel more private
143 [00:18] <paultag> OK, we have a lot to talk about. Lets do this later with the whole team
144 [00:18] <nhandler> swoody: That doesn't make it any more private
145 [00:18] <paultag> this is not the place to argue, this is the meeting. Let's hit the ML
146 [00:18] <Rocket2DMn> no paultag , lets settle this now
147 [00:18] <bodhi_zazen> I do believe there are times when the channel will need to be closed
148 [00:18] <nhandler> paultag: I am ok with that
149 [00:18] <paultag> Rocket2DMn, I think we need to talk about it more
150 [00:18] <Rocket2DMn> this is a team meeting
151 [00:18] <paultag> Rocket2DMn, we are ill-prepared for it
152 [00:18] <nhandler> I have to run to dinner anyway
153 [00:18] <bodhi_zazen> outside of those times, unless there is a good reason, leave it open would be my 2c
154 [00:18] <Rocket2DMn> alright, whatever
155 [00:19] <swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
156 [00:19] <tronyx> may i interject? i never say much during the meetings
157 [00:19] <Rocket2DMn> shall we take off the +mc for now?
158 [00:19] <bodhi_zazen> yes tronyx
159 [00:19] * tronyx begins typing
160 [00:19] <bodhi_zazen> no Rocket2DMn
161 [00:19] <bodhi_zazen> I think we need to use the meeting time to discuss these issues
162 [00:19] <bodhi_zazen> we are all here ;)
163 [00:19] <bodhi_zazen> ml == borring
164 [00:19] <tronyx> there is a lot to be said for the council channel and just who can be in there. i know this isn't 'our' channel and the CoC applies but for those of you who know me, you know what i am getting at
165 [00:19] <swoody> heh, +1 bodhi_zazen
166 [00:19] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, it's on the Wiki :P the Meetings are not for arguing about the issue
167 [00:20] <swoody> it allows us to explore more ideas in a few seconds of real-time chat, that a few dozen emails spread out over days
168 [00:20] <tronyx> simply put, if you are an asshole, it effects all users in ubuntuforums-beginners. if your behavior effects the whole team, than you had better be prepared for everyone to know about it
169 [00:20] * bodhi_zazen edits the wiki
170 [00:20] <Silver_Fox_> can i make a request on a new topic? if time allows
171 [00:20] <tronyx> and it may also provide incentive for people to act like adults and part of the communityh
172 [00:20] <bodhi_zazen> yes Silver_Fox_ :)
173 [00:20] <tronyx> let's take montel for example, i am sure his expulsion was addressed in private, but before there, it effected us all
174 [00:20] <paultag> It was
175 [00:20] <paultag> I talked in PM a lot
176 [00:21] <paultag> it was only a last resort to involve Council, and then the team
177 [00:21] <tronyx> eventually we all know/knew what happened and that is that. but it effected everyone
178 [00:21] <tronyx> i think that if someone is going to contribute, be active and be productive, they have just as much of a place on the 'council' as anyone else
179 [00:21] <bodhi_zazen> Let us take a non-binding vote, to see what the consensus is, and move teh discussion to ML
180 [00:21] <bodhi_zazen> then move to another topic ?
181 [00:22] <paultag> +1
182 [00:22] <Silver_Fox_> sounds good to me bodhi_zazen
183 [00:22] <superbenny> +1 bodhi_zazen
184 [00:22] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]Should the #ubuntu-beginners-council be +mz +1 = yes ; -1 = open channel
185 [00:22] <MootBot> Please vote on: Should the #ubuntu-beginners-council be +mz +1 = yes ; -1 = open channel.
186 [00:22] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
187 [00:22] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
188 [00:22] <bodhi_zazen> -1
189 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
190 [00:22] <paultag> -1
191 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from paultag. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
192 [00:22] <Silver_Fox_> -1
193 [00:22] <dvz-> -1
194 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
195 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from dvz-. 0 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
196 [00:22] <swoody> -1
197 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 0 for, 5 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -5
198 [00:22] <drs305> -1
199 [00:22] <MootBot> -1 received from drs305. 0 for, 6 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -6
200 [00:22] <MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 7 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now -7
201 [00:23] <TuxPurple> -1
202 [00:23] <tronyx> -1
203 [00:23] <superbenny> -1
204 [00:23] <MootBot> -1 received from tronyx. 0 for, 8 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -8
205 [00:23] <MootBot> -1 received from superbenny. 0 for, 9 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -9
206 [00:23] <MootBot> -1 received from TuxPurple. 0 for, 10 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -10
207 [00:23] <bodhi_zazen> Any additional votes ?
208 [00:23] * bodhi_zazen notes nhandler is probably +1
209 [00:24] <swoody> well I feel that about sums it up right there :)
210 [00:24] <Silver_Fox_> what about rocket?
211 [00:24] <superbenny> agreed, swoody
212 [00:24] <Rocket2DMn> i vote privately
213 [00:24] <superbenny> hehe
214 [00:24] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
215 [00:24] <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 10 against. 0 abstained. Total: -10
216 [00:24] <superbenny> more -9 with nhandler
217 [00:24] <bodhi_zazen> [IDEA]No more +mz on #ubuntu-beginners-council
218 [00:24] <MootBot> IDEA received: No more +mz on #ubuntu-beginners-council
219 [00:25] <bodhi_zazen> [ACTION}Council to discuss opening channel
220 [00:25] <MootBot> ACTION received: [ACTION}Council to discuss opening channel
221 [00:25] <bodhi_zazen> Silver_Fox_: did you have a topic ?
222 [00:26] <Silver_Fox_> minor thing, more of a request
223 [00:26] <Silver_Fox_> bodhi_zazen, ^
224 [00:26] <bodhi_zazen> OK, go for it ;)
225 [00:26] <Silver_Fox_> I would like to request that agenda items not go up less than 5 minutes prior to meeting starting
226 [00:27] <Silver_Fox_> it doesn't seem organised
227 [00:27] <bodhi_zazen> indeed
228 [00:27] <Rocket2DMn> Silver_Fox_, items are supposed to be on the agenda in advance, but we didnt have many items today
229 [00:27] <dvz-> o/ bodhi_zazen i have a topic but i think it may have to wait..in luie of Silver_Fox_ topic
230 [00:27] <dvz-> lol
231 [00:27] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]"Do something"
232 [00:27] <MootBot> New Topic: "Do something"
233 [00:28] <swoody> +1 Silver_Fox_ although I feel that's more of a personal thing, and someone who has a topic they want to add should just wait to put it on the next meeting's agenda
234 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> this is sort of an old topic, from last time
235 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> paultag: poke =)
236 [00:28] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, hola
237 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> there was a discussion on the council / leadership / assigning tasks to those who need assignments
238 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> something like that
239 [00:28] <paultag> Yes indeed
240 [00:28] <bodhi_zazen> go paultag =)
241 [00:29] * paultag starts
242 [00:29] <superbenny> really sorry guys, i need to run and make dinner. i might be back by the end of the meeting.
243 [00:29] <paultag> The idea here is really one from the ( now MIA ) JoshuaRL and myself
244 [00:30] <paultag> We wanted to create a system, a "pipeline" if you will from the UBT to the wider community. We would have tasks that would help the wider community, and track them with new members, or members who would want to use the system. NOT required, just a helpful structure
245 [00:30] <paultag> Any ideas, questions, concerns>
246 [00:30] <paultag> s/>/?/
247 [00:31] <paultag> This system would work in tandem with the Focus Groups
248 [00:31] <bodhi_zazen> I think it would be a good idea, you willing to maintain such a list ?
249 [00:31] <Silver_Fox_> track them how paultag ?
250 [00:31] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, yes. I am undergoing the task of figuring out how to track them
251 [00:31] <bodhi_zazen> If so, I would suggest we start it and see how it works out
252 [00:31] <swoody> paultag: How would this tracking system be setup? What exactly would you use to list the assingments that need to be done?
253 [00:31] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, We were using LP, but it is not proving fruitful
254 [00:32] <bodhi_zazen> Well, that may be a problem paultag :)
255 [00:32] <paultag> swoody, that is up to discussion by anyone who would like to contribute. I thought it like a bug tracking system
256 [00:32] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, Well, I Have a workaround
257 [00:32] <bodhi_zazen> linky ?
258 [00:32] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, LP OpenID Auth'd homebrew tracker
259 [00:32] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, It's almost done. I was going to test it
260 [00:33] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, active version is here: http://whube.com
261 [00:33] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, it's not working well yet, and that is outdated.
262 [00:33] <bodhi_zazen> Well, let us see how it goes then
263 [00:34] <paultag> Anyone interested in helping?
264 [00:34] <bodhi_zazen> may I suggest you start with either a forms thread or wiki page ?
265 [00:34] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, I'll start a Wiki
266 [00:34] <bodhi_zazen> and transition to whube.com when ready ?
267 [00:34] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, Sure. that is just my sandbox for now, perhaps a btdev subdomain down the line?
268 [00:34] <bodhi_zazen> along these lines, paultag, ...
269 [00:34] <Silver_Fox_> paultag, i will help
270 [00:34] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, I mean, ufbt*
271 [00:34] <paultag> Silver_Fox_, thank you :)
272 [00:34] <bodhi_zazen> Are there any suggestions on what the team would like to see in terms of leadership ?
273 [00:35] <Silver_Fox_> it is no trouble paultag , you know that ;)
274 [00:35] <dvz-> bodhi_zazen: leadership in what capacity and to what topic?
275 [00:35] <bodhi_zazen> yes paultag that domain is open
276 [00:35] <bodhi_zazen> =)
277 [00:35] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, ok, outstanding :)
278 [00:35] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, also, if I have the floor RE administration, I have a topic
279 [00:35] <bodhi_zazen> dvz-: there has been some quite discussions in dark corners about having the leadership of this team 'do more"
280 [00:36] <bodhi_zazen> and I am looking for input / advice
281 [00:36] <bodhi_zazen> if it is on topic paultag , please
282 [00:36] <paultag> OK
283 [00:36] <paultag> ajmorris has been AFK for the last months -- Silver_Fox_ has stepped up on the IRC team to be an interm leader. I am looking for team advice on how we should handle a member who dropped off the face
284 [00:36] <paultag> I would like to see Silver_Fox_ take on aj's role, but I don't want to get rid of him without talking to him
285 [00:36] <bodhi_zazen> exactly as you said paultag
286 [00:36] <bodhi_zazen> find a willing replacement
287 [00:36] <dvz-> paultag: I believe AJ had resigned from his roles and made mention of leaving prior to
288 [00:36] <nhandler> paultag: Members who let their membership on LP expire are de-voiced, and are technically not BT members until they show up again
289 [00:37] <paultag> dvz-, OK
290 [00:37] <bodhi_zazen> I would think council discussion / action
291 [00:37] <paultag> nhandler, ok, thank you
292 [00:37] <Silver_Fox_> i am a willing replacement
293 [00:37] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, OK, so then with the team's blessing, Moving Silver_Fox_ to IRC Co-Lead
294 [00:37] <bodhi_zazen> what nhandler said
295 [00:37] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, I am requesting it, and Silver_Fox_ is willing
296 [00:37] <bodhi_zazen> I have devoiced a few people in the past few days
297 [00:37] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Anyone other than st33med and ajmorris?
298 [00:38] <bodhi_zazen> not to me mean, but rather to keep team / voice membership "up to date" if you will
299 [00:38] <bodhi_zazen> yes nhandler
300 [00:38] <bodhi_zazen> overdrank
301 [00:38] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Silver_Fox_ to be IRC co-lead ?
302 [00:38] <MootBot> Please vote on: Silver_Fox_ to be IRC co-lead ?.
303 [00:38] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
304 [00:38] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
305 [00:38] <bodhi_zazen> +1
306 [00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
307 [00:38] <dvz-> +1
308 [00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
309 [00:38] <Silver_Fox_> +1
310 [00:38] <paultag> +1
311 [00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
312 [00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
313 [00:39] <nhandler> +0
314 [00:39] <MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
315 [00:39] <bodhi_zazen> I think FG leads should if at all possible be team decisions
316 [00:39] <drs305> +1
317 [00:39] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
318 [00:39] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 6 for, 0 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
319 [00:39] <bodhi_zazen> any additional votes ?
320 [00:40] <TuxPurple> +1
321 [00:40] <MootBot> +1 received from TuxPurple. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
322 [00:40] <swoody> +1
323 [00:40] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
324 [00:40] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
325 [00:40] <MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 8
326 [00:40] <bodhi_zazen> [AGREED] Silver_Fox_ to co-lead the IRC group
327 [00:40] <MootBot> AGREED received: Silver_Fox_ to co-lead the IRC group
328 [00:40] <Silver_Fox_> thank you everyone
329 [00:40] <paultag> thank you Silver_Fox_ :)
330 [00:41] <bodhi_zazen> I want to mention one thing b4 we move to new members
331 [00:41] <bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/YNU/Conduct
332 [00:41] <bodhi_zazen> The YNU FG !!!
333 [00:41] <paultag> \o/
334 [00:41] <jgoguen> \o/
335 [00:41] <bodhi_zazen> I am very excited about this FG
336 [00:41] <vorian> FG!!
337 [00:42] <dvz-> o/
338 [00:42] <Silver_Fox_> oh that ;)
339 [00:42] <Silver_Fox_> \O/
340 [00:42] <bodhi_zazen> I was going to name the group immature brats , but YNU seems better
341 [00:42] <dvz-> i like immature brats.
342 [00:42] <swoody> +! dvz-
343 [00:42] <paultag> But then I would have to join :(
344 [00:42] <bodhi_zazen> thank you to everyone for putting a team together
345 [00:42] <nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Are you fine with people just editing that page, or do you want changes to go through the YNU FG ?
346 [00:43] <bodhi_zazen> It is a wiki
347 [00:43] <bodhi_zazen> we can always blacklist their IP or undo changes if we need =)
348 [00:43] <nhandler> Just making sure, I see a few things I would like to change
349 [00:43] <dvz-> speaking of teams...and before voting, bodhi_zazen - may i bring a last minute topic up for prediscussion?
350 [00:43] <bodhi_zazen> sec dvz-
351 [00:43] <dvz-> surely
352 [00:44] <bodhi_zazen> the idea of the YNU FG is to help immature people fit better into first our team and ultimately into the greater Ubuntu Community
353 [00:44] <bodhi_zazen> many of these people require a little time an patience, but then are awesome
354 [00:44] <jgoguen> nhandler: I threw that page together quickly using ESR's ramblings and my experience as references, please do clean it up :)
355 [00:44] <bodhi_zazen> If not, root them out fast
356 [00:44] <bodhi_zazen> =)
357 [00:45] <Silver_Fox_> I like the term nurture
358 [00:45] <bodhi_zazen> like he who shall remain nameless less we awaken his bot army
359 [00:45] <jgoguen> lol
360 [00:45] <bodhi_zazen> OK dvz- you are up =)
361 [00:46] <dvz-> for IRC trend for the beginners team is currently #ubuntu-beginners(-FG). we seem to have quite a few people going to -beginners for help questions..and then we redirect them to -beginners-help. the team is, in fact, like a big fg - so why not create a channel #ubuntu-beginners-team and use #ubuntu-beginners as the new -help channel? i think the current team channel is a tad misleading.
362 [00:47] <bodhi_zazen> Aggg !
363 [00:47] <Silver_Fox_> can we not rename #ubuntu-beginners-help
364 [00:47] <bodhi_zazen> I would have to re-do all the access list, 70 something :)
365 [00:47] <dvz-> i first joined #ubuntuforums-beginners because i thought it was a channel for beginners to ask help questions in
366 [00:48] <bodhi_zazen> I am OK with moving, it is not a bad idea
367 [00:48] <bodhi_zazen> on the other hand, I am OK with new users wandering in as well, kind of makes the channel, well, interesting
368 [00:48] <Rocket2DMn> -1 on moving, a few people wandering in isnt bad
369 [00:48] <Rocket2DMn> besides, they are finding people who know whats up
370 [00:48] <bodhi_zazen> if it is a huge support question, move the discussion to -help ?
371 [00:49] <swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
372 [00:49] <dvz-> sure, but then why are we telling them to go to a help channel when we can keep the people who are currently in -beginners there and just almost duplicate it in -team...if members are so concerned about redirecting help questions
373 [00:49] <bodhi_zazen> shall we vote on that ?
374 [00:49] <dvz-> i like that idea bodhi_zazen
375 [00:49] <bodhi_zazen> Well dvz-
376 [00:49] <nhandler> I think it is a good thing that users are landing in the main team channel.
377 [00:49] <bodhi_zazen> short help questions are fine
378 [00:49] <nhandler> We can then point them to the correct location for their questions
379 [00:49] <paultag> I'll BRB. I am voting +0
380 [00:50] <swoody> I feel anyone who may wander into #u-b should be directed to #u-b-h
381 [00:50] <Rocket2DMn> the same thing happens in every ubuntu channel ive ever been in, people inevitably wander in
382 [00:50] <bodhi_zazen> but long discussions on iptables or other esoteric questions posting config files to pastebin deserve privacy =)
383 [00:50] <dvz-> wandering is fine...but rather than wandering into a channel you think is a help channel and then being redirected to another channel with less users...i think it's counterproductive at times.
384 [00:51] <bodhi_zazen> +1 dvz-
385 [00:51] <Silver_Fox_> it happened with Kangarooo earlier
386 [00:51] <bodhi_zazen> so if they ask or need support , dish it out ;)
387 [00:51] <bodhi_zazen> if the discussion is getting long, move it
388 [00:51] <dvz-> +1 bodhi_zazen
389 [00:51] <swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
390 [00:51] <bodhi_zazen> if we get a ton of counter productive traffic we can move
391 [00:52] <bodhi_zazen> most people do not mind moving to another channel for support, at least in my experience
392 [00:52] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Should we move to -team ?
393 [00:52] <MootBot> Please vote on: Should we move to -team ?.
394 [00:52] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
395 [00:52] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
396 [00:52] <bodhi_zazen> -1
397 [00:52] <MootBot> -1 received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
398 [00:52] <dvz-> +0
399 [00:52] <MootBot> Abstention received from dvz-. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
400 [00:52] <Rocket2DMn> -1
401 [00:52] <MootBot> -1 received from Rocket2DMn. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
402 [00:52] <bodhi_zazen> any more votes ?
403 [00:53] <bodhi_zazen> hehehe
404 [00:53] <Silver_Fox_> -1
405 [00:53] <MootBot> -1 received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
406 [00:53] <Snova> -1
407 [00:53] <MootBot> -1 received from Snova. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
408 [00:53] <TuxPurple> +0
409 [00:53] <MootBot> Abstention received from TuxPurple. 0 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -4
410 [00:53] <swoody> -1
411 [00:53] <MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 0 for, 5 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -5
412 [00:53] <drs305> +0
413 [00:53] <MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 0 for, 5 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -5
414 [00:53] <jgoguen> -1
415 [00:53] <MootBot> -1 received from jgoguen. 0 for, 6 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -6
416 [00:53] <bodhi_zazen> any more votes ?
417 [00:54] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
418 [00:54] <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 6 against. 3 abstained. Total: -6
419 [00:54] <bodhi_zazen> shall we do
420 [00:54] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New Members
421 [00:54] <MootBot> New Topic: New Members
422 [00:54] <paultag> Oh!
423 [00:54] <dvz-> i don't know much of him to give much of a rundown
424 [00:54] <paultag> I am here, can we do Wiebelhaus quick?
425 [00:54] <paultag> I need to cook, and I am just about to get up
426 [00:55] <paultag> ( sorry for breaking protocol here )
427 [00:55] <bodhi_zazen> yes paultag
428 [00:55] <bodhi_zazen> is Wiebelhaus here ?
429 [00:55] <paultag> Wiebelhaus is not here right now, but most of you know him pretty well. I think he is a damn fine member, and worthy of the team :)
430 [00:55] <Silver_Fox_> no
431 [00:55] <jgoguen> Not in here
432 [00:55] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, it's been about two meetings he has been up for it
433 [00:55] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, can we do a absentee vote?
434 [00:56] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Wiebelhaus for membership
435 [00:56] <MootBot> Please vote on: Wiebelhaus for membership.
436 [00:56] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
437 [00:56] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
438 [00:56] <bodhi_zazen> +0
439 [00:56] <MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
440 [00:56] <dvz-> +1
441 [00:56] <MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
442 [00:56] <drs305> +1
443 [00:56] <paultag> +1
444 [00:56] <MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
445 [00:56] <MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
446 [00:56] <jgoguen> +1
447 [00:56] <MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
448 [00:56] <Silver_Fox_> +0
449 [00:56] <MootBot> Abstention received from Silver_Fox_. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
450 [00:56] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
451 [00:57] <Snova> +1
452 [00:57] <MootBot> +1 received from Snova. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
453 [00:57] <bodhi_zazen> any additional votes ?
454 [00:57] <paultag> I think that's it
455 [00:57] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
456 [00:57] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 6
457 [00:57] <paultag> bodhi_zazen, Thank you for making that exception -- and on that note I am off, time too cook :)
458 [00:57] <bodhi_zazen> np
459 [00:58] <bodhi_zazen> anyone want to speak / vote on leoquant ?
460 [00:58] <Silver_Fox_> +1
461 [00:58] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=155157
462 [00:58] <MootBot> LINK received: http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=155157
463 [00:58] <bodhi_zazen> Silver_Fox_: you wish to speak ?
464 [00:59] <bodhi_zazen> I know leoquant from the forums
465 [00:59] <Silver_Fox_> bodhi_zazen, no, i am willing to vote
466 [00:59] <bodhi_zazen> Ah , OK
467 [01:00] <bodhi_zazen> leoquant is an ubuntu member and seems quite knowledgeable, IMO
468 [01:00] <bodhi_zazen> let us vote, abstain to vote later ;)
469 [01:00] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] leoquant for membership
470 [01:00] <MootBot> Please vote on: leoquant for membership.
471 [01:00] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot
472 [01:00] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
473 [01:00] <drs305> +0
474 [01:00] <MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
475 [01:00] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 1 for, 0 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
476 [01:00] <bodhi_zazen> +1
477 [01:00] <MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
478 [01:01] <Silver_Fox_> +1
479 [01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
480 [01:01] <Snova> +1
481 [01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from Snova. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
482 [01:01] <swoody> +1
483 [01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
484 [01:01] <TuxPurple> +1
485 [01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from TuxPurple. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
486 [01:02] <bodhi_zazen> any additional votes ?
487 [01:02] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
488 [01:02] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
489 [01:02] <bodhi_zazen> we are almost out of time
490 [01:02] <bodhi_zazen> I have a general announcement that should interest most of the team
491 [01:03] <bodhi_zazen> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1876
492 [01:03] <MootBot> LINK received: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1876
493 [01:04] <bodhi_zazen> Any other topics or shall we end the meeting ?
494 [01:04] <Rocket2DMn> We're over an hour, better end
495 [01:04] <bodhi_zazen> Thank you all for coming and your contributions to both the team and Ubuntu
496 [01:05] <bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
497 [01:05] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:05.