Ubuntu Wiki

Edcuation Focus Group Meeting

Agenda

• Name of Project
• Use of the Ubuntu name
• Training/Education focus
• Identifying Stakeholders
• Integrating with the community
• Developing Online Courseware
• Project Milestones
• Session feedback mechanism

Meeting Logs

17:00 < cprofitt> #startmeeting
17:00 < MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is cprofitt.
17:00 < MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
17:00 < cprofitt> [TOPIC] Education Initiative
17:00 < MootBot> New Topic:  Education Initiative
17:01 -!- JoshuaRL|away [n=joshua@ip68-103-252-148.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:01 < cprofitt> Welcome everyone
17:01 < cprofitt> This is the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team Education Focus Group
17:01 -!- JoshuaRL|away [n=joshua@ip68-103-252-148.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:01  * pleia2 waves
17:01 -!- Ash_R [n=ashley@client-81-107-221-25.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:02 -!- JoshuaRL [n=joshua@ip68-103-252-148.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:02 < cprofitt> Tonight we will be discussing our project of adopting Moodle and integrating it in with existing resources for Ubuntu Education
17:02 < Vantrax> Thanks for coming pleia2
17:02 -!- Snova [n=Snova@unaffiliated/snova] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:02 < cprofitt> We are using MootBot and the instructions can be found here
17:02 < cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
17:03 < cprofitt> I would like to thank everyone who has shown up for our meeting.
17:03 < cprofitt> Now I would like to introduce the man leading the charge - Vantrax
17:03 < cprofitt> take it away Vantrax
17:03 < Vantrax> Sheesh....
17:03 < Vantrax> that might be an overstatement:P
17:04 < Vantrax> All right, for anyone that hasnt already seen it, the agenda can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
17:04 < cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
17:04 < MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
17:04 < cprofitt> for the agenda
17:05 < cprofitt> [TOPIC] Name of Project
17:05 < MootBot> New Topic:  Name of Project
17:05 < Vantrax> Im going to assume that no one here has an idea of what were doing and give a quick recap
17:05 < cprofitt> [TOPIC] Overview
17:05 < MootBot> New Topic:  Overview
17:05 < Vantrax> Our intention is to create an interactive learning environment to support new users becoming more engaged in the Ubuntu community. Our goal is to take new motivated users and turn them into contributing members of the community.
17:05 -!- Rocket2DMn [n=connor@ubuntu/member/rocket2dmn] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:06 < Vantrax> We plan to do this by using moodle to coordinate all the various methods currently being used to teach with all the different teams currently engaged in various sorts of training
17:06 < Vantrax> The intention of this program is to avoid competition with the existing official training program. This training will cover some similar process but will not have any accreditation or certification associated with it, and may act as a feeder into the official components. The information contained is intended to suplement the work already being done by several groups in IRC training to make their programs easier to find, and easier to take.
17:07 < cprofitt> [TOPIC] Name of Project
17:07 < MootBot> New Topic:  Name of Project
17:07 < Vantrax> [TOPIC] Name of Project
17:08 < Vantrax> First bit off the line, we have to name what the project is going to be. The suggestions from community and canonical staff have been to include community and training or education. We are also currently petitioning to use the Ubuntu name and expect that it is likely to be granted
17:09 < Vantrax> Aside from Ubuntu Community Training, and Ubuntu Community Education are there any other suggestions that people would like considered
17:09 < cprofitt> [IDEA]Ubuntu Community Training
17:09 < MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Training
17:09 < JoshuaRL> o/
17:09 < Vantrax> go JoshuaRL
17:09 < cprofitt> [IDEA]Ubuntu Community Education
17:09 < MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Education
17:09 < JoshuaRL> Ubuntu Community Learning
17:10 < cprofitt> [IDEA]Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)
17:10 < MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)
17:10 -!- bazhang_ [n=bazhang@unaffiliated/bazhang] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:10 < Vantrax> Other suggestions?
17:11 < pleia2> I worry about "Community Training" because it's so similar to the official stuff, and in every instance the official canonical training folks will have the "training" name already
17:12 < JoshuaRL> pleia2: +1
17:12 < Vantrax> Jono actually preferred that one because it was similar, but clearly community based and not official.
17:12 < cprofitt> I prefer education myself... but learning is good.
17:12 < tim_sharitt> IMO, something with education or learning is more inviting to casual users and new users
17:12 < forestpixie> +1
17:12 < cprofitt> I emailed Jono about the difference between Education and Training, but have not received a response yet
17:13 -!- bazhang [n=bazhang@unaffiliated/bazhang] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
17:13 < tim_sharitt> training sounds too formal
17:13 < pleia2> Vantrax: well, thus far the canonical training folks have launchpad and mailing lists called "ubuntu training" or somesuch
17:13 < cprofitt> yes, training sounds like something will be done to you...
17:13 < cprofitt> and we plan on some self-paced learning
17:13 < Vantrax> Personally I am partital to Education
17:13 < pleia2> I like Education
17:14 < cprofitt> does anyone want the differences as I laid them out?
17:14 < tim_sharitt> +1 for education
17:14 < pleia2> cprofitt: sure :)
17:14 < JoshuaRL> cprofitt: go ahead
17:14 < cprofitt> ok...
17:15 -!- Ash_R [n=ashley@client-81-107-221-25.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"]
17:15 < cprofitt> the education, instruction, or discipline of a person or thing that is being trained
17:15 < cprofitt> the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life
17:15 < cprofitt> the first is training
17:15 < cprofitt> the second is education
17:16 < JoshuaRL> cprofitt: got learning available?
17:16 < cprofitt> not handy
17:16 < cprofitt> but can look it up
17:16 < cprofitt>       the act or process of acquiring knowledge or skill.
17:17 < JoshuaRL> knowledge acquired by systematic study in any field of scholarly application.
17:17 < JoshuaRL> oops, missed yours  :)
17:17 < cprofitt> I like Education because it can be self-paced or instructor lead
17:17 < Vantrax> Im still partial to Education looking at the definitions, everyone happy with that, or would you like to vote?
17:18 < forestpixie> we need to vote I think
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17:18 < cprofitt> [VOTE] Name - Ubuntu Community Education
17:18 < MootBot> Please vote on:  Name - Ubuntu Community Education.
17:18 < MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
17:18 < MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
17:18 < cprofitt> +1
17:18 < MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
17:18 < Vantrax> +1
17:18 < MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
17:18 < tim_sharitt> +1
17:18 < MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
17:18 < pleia2> +1
17:18 < MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
17:18 < forestpixie> 1
17:18 < JoshuaRL> +1
17:18 < MootBot> +1 received from JoshuaRL. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
17:18 < forestpixie> +1
17:18 < MootBot> +1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
17:19 < Vantrax> Any other votes?
17:19 < cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
17:19 < MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
17:19 < cprofitt> [VOTE]Ubuntu Community Learning
17:19 < MootBot> Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Learning.
17:19 < MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
17:19 < MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
17:19 < cprofitt> 0
17:19 < cprofitt> +0
17:19 < MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
17:19 < Vantrax> 0
17:19 < JoshuaRL> -1
17:19 < Vantrax> +0
17:19 < MootBot> -1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
17:19 < MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
17:19 < forestpixie> +0
17:19 < MootBot> Abstention received from forestpixie. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
17:20 < tim_sharitt> +0
17:20 < MootBot> Abstention received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -1
17:20 < cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
17:20 < MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: -1
17:20 < cprofitt> [VOTE]Ubuntu Community Training
17:20 < MootBot> Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Training.
17:20 < MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
17:20 < MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
17:20 < cprofitt> -1
17:20 < MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
17:20 < tim_sharitt> -1
17:20 < MootBot> -1 received from tim_sharitt. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
17:20 < forestpixie> -1
17:20 < MootBot> -1 received from forestpixie. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
17:20 < Vantrax> +0
17:20 < MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
17:20 < JoshuaRL> -1
17:20 < MootBot> -1 received from JoshuaRL. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
17:21 < cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
17:21 < MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -4
17:21  * nhandler arrives
17:21 < cprofitt> [AGREED]Ubuntu Community Education
17:21 < MootBot> AGREED received: Ubuntu Community Education
17:21 < cprofitt> We will need to review that with Canonical
17:22 < cprofitt> [TOPIC]Use of the Ubuntu name
17:22 < MootBot> New Topic: Use of the Ubuntu name
17:23 < Vantrax> As before, any use of the Ubuntu name has to be approved by the branding/copyright group. A formal request has been made and is expected to be approved based on support from the Official Ubuntu training team leaders, community manager, and sadbfl
17:23 < Vantrax> Just a little status update on that side of things
17:24 < cprofitt> [TOPIC]Training/Education focus
17:24 < MootBot> New Topic: Training/Education focus
17:24 < Vantrax> cprofitt: mind if we do Integrating with the community first?
17:24 < cprofitt> [TOPIC]Integrating with the community
17:24 < MootBot> New Topic: Integrating with the community
17:25 < Vantrax> This has been an area of consern in planning this project, many groups in the community are already doing training.
17:26 < Vantrax> The plan is that a new launchpad team and mailing list will be created including the representatives for the training program (currently dubbed Ubuntu Community Education) to make it a new entity that is a collaberation of teams, not the property of existing teams (ie Its not a Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team or a Classroom project).
17:26 < Vantrax> Does anyone have any comments or suggestions in regard to this side of things
17:26 < nhandler> I would like to see a few different teams created
17:26 < pleia2> what kinds of things would be discussed there that wouldn't be on existing lists?
17:27 -!- bazhang_ is now known as bazhang
17:27 < nhandler> For instance, a team for people interested in forum education, motu education, wiki education, etc. You would then have a parent team which has these smaller teams as members
17:27 < pleia2> I'd rather not see a bunch of half-dead lists be created for specific things when discussions on all of them could be useful for everyone involved
17:27 < Vantrax> pleia2: the idea is more that there are not several lists
17:27 < cprofitt> I just want to state that the focus is to augment existing training... not replace it. We want to increase the use of IRC #classroom and have more people become involved with MOTU, Documentation, etc...
17:27 < Vantrax> nhandler: most of these teams have lists already that serve this function isnt it?
17:28 < JoshuaRL> nhandler: that could easily be handled within each respective team, if they decide they need it
17:28 < nhandler> Vantrax: There aren't specific teams/lists for the education element of these teams
17:28 < pleia2> yeah, currently motu, bugs, etc discuss thing within their own teams, since everyone in their team can contribute
17:28 < Vantrax> The idea is to provide a better method for training to tie the community training together
17:28 < cprofitt> Vantrax, I would think that the other teams would be fine on their own internal lists still... but the new group would allow for a common list to be shared for the areas that cross
17:28 < nhandler> For instance, we have a MOTU School, but no MOTU School list/team
17:28 < Vantrax> nhandler: i see what you meen now
17:28 < cprofitt> I would think those teams have internal issues that do not need to be discussed in the context of education
17:29 < cprofitt> so the new group would provide a shared 'education' list
17:29 < Vantrax> nhandler: I would tend to assume it would be up to each contributing area to decide if they need a group/mailing list for this
17:29 < pleia2> I don't think we want to insist upon groups having a "motu school team/list" the reason they discuss this on their main lists is because they want to, and it attracts attention from everyone in their teams instead of segregating it
17:29 < cprofitt> and only focus on the education piece for all included teams
17:29 < JoshuaRL> Vantrax: +1.  this should just be a parent group
17:29 < Vantrax> such as the Beginners Team has done with its Education Focus Group
17:29 < cprofitt> pleia2, I agree...
17:30 < cprofitt> I think vantrax's idea was to create one combined EDU list
17:30 < nhandler> pleia2: I am not saying we need separate lists, I just think creating sub-teams of this new education team would be a good idea
17:30 < JoshuaRL> pleia2: +1
17:30 < cprofitt> so that teams could discuss education together in a combined place
17:30 < Vantrax> The idea of the list is that everyone has a central point for edu related info
17:30 < pleia2> nhandler: I fail to use the usefulness
17:30 < Vantrax> or to seek help on setting up a course on the moodle installation
17:30 < nhandler> pleia2: Organization. You could see who is interested in certain types of lessons. You could then have different people in charge of coordinating those lessons
17:31 < cprofitt> 0/
17:31 < pleia2> nhandler: I think it adds complexity and requirements upon teams doing lessons
17:31 < pleia2> I think we want to make it easy for them :)
17:31 < cprofitt> pleia2, would you have education issues cross posted on the regular team lists?
17:32 < pleia2> cprofitt: yeah, then more people see it and perhaps someone who didn't know about it could toss in their info, wider audiences are generally good
17:32 < pleia2> putting education stuff in its own corner tends to cause things to die off
17:32 < cprofitt> would it be good to have one 'uber' list plus cross posting? or just all cross posting?
17:33 < cprofitt> I see two sides... keeping people involved and the 'logs' of the list... one 'education' list would make it easy to find education posts...
17:33 < pleia2> uber list plus cross posting
17:33 < cprofitt> cool... I think I like that idea...
17:33 < nhandler> Having an uber list would also make it easy for people to contact the people in charge of the lessons
17:33 < JoshuaRL> pleia2: +1
17:33 < cprofitt> Vantrax?
17:33 < pleia2> like currently with classroom a couple of us are on main ubuntu lists, read planet and news, and when we see a lesson we post about it to -classroom, we encourage teams doing classes to publicise them with classroom, but they're cross posted elsewhere too
17:34 -!- rgreening [n=rgreenin@CPE0013461f64f7-CM000f9f7b7d44.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:34 < pleia2> nhandler: agreed
17:34 < cprofitt> so do we need a new team or just a mailing list to accomplish that?
17:34 < Vantrax> Im just thinking how easy is this going to be for a new user looking for information
17:35 < nhandler> cprofitt: If you are making the list through Launchpad, you need a team
17:35 < forestpixie> probably easier than looking all over the place
17:35 < pleia2> Vantrax: me too, I fear that having too many subteams would be confusing (and if one is dead and the rest are busy? they get a false impression of the project if they join that dead one...)
17:35 < cprofitt> Vantrax, I think the mix of Uber list and cross posting should solve the issue of finding things... but also pollinate the existing groups
17:35 < Vantrax> I think we should have an LP team related to the organisational side of this, for people contributing materials or helping coordinate
17:35 < cprofitt> k...
17:35 < forestpixie> +1
17:36 < forestpixie> although we could use the one we already have couldn't we
17:36 < Vantrax> I think we should also have a mailing list for information on training, and sublist for each area that are crossposted
17:36 < Vantrax> forestpixie: the idea is for another group not related to an existing group
17:36 < pleia2> it's the sublist I have trouble with
17:36 < nhandler> Vantrax: That is what my idea about the subteams was partially about
17:36 < nhandler> However, I don't think the sublists are needed
17:37 < Vantrax> ok, subteams but not sublists?
17:37 < nhandler> Yes
17:37 < pleia2> I don't think subteamsare needed either
17:37 < nhandler> That would keep things organized
17:37 < Rocket2DMn> o/
17:37 < nhandler> pleia2: Why? If I am only interested in doing a certain type of session, you don't think that matters
17:37 < Vantrax> pleia2: I agree, but I can see the use on the organisational side
17:37 < Vantrax> go Rocket2DMn
17:37 < JoshuaRL> o/ 2
17:37 < cprofitt> Rocket2DMn,
17:37 < pleia2> nhandler: subteams are essentially already handled by the projects themselves, asking them to join these seems excessive
17:38 < Rocket2DMn> I've been following some of this discussion, it's become apparent that sublists definitely dont work, we saw this on the BT
17:38 < Rocket2DMn> re: Subteams, who would actually be ON the subteams?
17:38 < cprofitt> +1 Rocket2DMn
17:38 < Vantrax> Rocket2DMn: I think were past sublists
17:38 < tim_sharitt> I don't think we need subteams/sublists right now unless we see that are actually needed in the future
17:38 < pleia2> tim_sharitt: +1
17:38 < cprofitt> Lets vote on this...
17:38 < forestpixie> +1 tim_sharitt
17:38 < Rocket2DMn> a "subteam" is more of a reference to a completely other ubuntu team
17:38 < JoshuaRL> i think that we should use one list, and one team.  if the traffic and the work gets exessive, then we can make them
17:38 < Vantrax> Id leave it as an option if we expand too rapidly, but for the moment the scale is a little small
17:38 < cprofitt> [VOTE]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
17:38 < MootBot> Please vote on: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists.
17:38 < MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
17:38 < MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
17:38 < cprofitt> +1
17:39 < MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
17:39 < forestpixie> +1
17:39 < MootBot> +1 received from forestpixie. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
17:39 < tim_sharitt> +1
17:39 < pleia2> +1
17:39 < MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
17:39 < MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
17:39 < Vantrax> +1
17:39 < MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
17:39 -!- nhandler [i=63156b5e@ubuntu/member/nhandler] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
17:39 < JoshuaRL> +1
17:39 < MootBot> +1 received from JoshuaRL. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
17:40 < cprofitt> any more votes - Rocket2DMn
17:40 < Rocket2DMn> i wont vote on your stuff guys, just thought i'd provide some input.  thank you
17:40 -!- nhandler [i=63156b5e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b6ff3fe4d5f3d308] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:40 < cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
17:40 < MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
17:40 < cprofitt> [AGREED]One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
17:40 < MootBot> AGREED received: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
17:40 < jpds> So, you lot don't want a list at lists.ubuntu.com?
17:40 -!- nhandler is now known as Guest28052
17:40 < Vantrax> Its likely that thats where the list will be made
17:40 < pleia2> it would be nice to have ubuntu-education :)
17:41 -!- Guest28052 is now known as nhandler_
17:41 < cprofitt> +1 pleia2
17:41 < JoshuaRL> +1
17:41 < forestpixie> +1
17:41 < cprofitt> next topic Vantrax ?
17:41 < nhandler_> jpds: Doesn't the team need to be an official Ubuntu team to use lists.ubuntu.com
17:41 < pleia2> and the ubuntu-classroom would simply be an aggregation of events in the #ubuntu-classroom channel
17:41 -!- arualavi [n=ivan@unaffiliated/arualavi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:41 < pleia2> list
17:41 -!- nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
17:42 < jpds> pleia2: Someone beat you to it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
17:42 < cprofitt> {TOPIC]Training/Education focus
17:42 < MootBot> New Topic: Training/Education focus
17:42 < nhandler> jpds: Those darn edubuntu people ;)
17:42 < pleia2> oh, edubuntu?
17:42 < cprofitt> we can be ubuntu-community-education
17:42 < jpds> nhandler: I'd have to check policy for non-LoCo mailing lists first.
17:42 < Vantrax> we will work something out:P
17:43 < nhandler> jpds: I'll talk with the brainstorm people. I know they recently moved from launchpad to lists.ubuntu.com
17:43 < Vantrax> To start with its been suggest that we start with three basic streems of courses.
17:43 < Vantrax> One aimed at new users to learn the basics of how Ubuntu works and how to work with your system.
17:44 < Vantrax> a more sysadmin based stream to learn how to administrate Ubuntu system for business and educational environments.
17:44 < Vantrax> lastly a contributor stream that focuses on learning how to contribute to the development of Ubuntu
17:45 -!- nand [n=nand@ubuntu/member/nand] has quit [Connection timed out]
17:45 < Vantrax> New User Sample Course Ideas:
17:45 < Vantrax> Learn about the terminal, how installing applications and repositories work, filling in a bug reports, modifying your desktop and theming, Root and Sudo, Partitioning and fstab, how to use IRC, how to use the Ubuntu Wiki, how to use Launchpad (Bugs and Answers), Linux file permissions, and the linux file system hiarchy.
17:45 < cprofitt> I would like to suggest another stream - an Trainer stream -- a course to help people who want to be trainers
17:45 < Vantrax> SysAdmin Sample Course Ideas:
17:45 < Vantrax> Basic Security Practices, Apparmor and Iptables, Networked logins using pam modules, locking down the gnome desktop, mantaining large scale SOE deployments (cssh and rc.local), automating remote backups, and Ubuntu SOE development.
17:45 < cprofitt> I think it is critical that we be able to 'grow' people as trainers
17:45 < forestpixie> +1
17:46 < Vantrax> Contributor Sample Course Ideas:
17:46 < Vantrax> Python Programming, how to use bzr, how to build a package, Introduction to Kernel Compiling, Introduction to Compiling, How to Triage Bugs, introduction to Launchpad Translations,
17:46 < JoshuaRL> cprofitt: that would be covered in the contributor stream right?
17:46 < cprofitt> perhaps, but not by what Vantrax just posted...
17:46 < Vantrax> Now there are also options for a security stream looked at as well focusing more on  advanced security practices, encryption, intrustion detection, and penetration testing (nubuntu style). This however is out of scope initially due to its complex nature.
17:46 < nhandler> Vantrax: Have you talked with james_w yet? He is currently the Dean of the MOTU School
17:47 < Vantrax> not yet, hence why I was askin you if anyone else from MOTU should be here:P
17:47 < cprofitt> Vantrax, pleia2 what are your thoughts on developing the instructors?
17:47  * nhandler doesn't remember being asked that
17:47 < Vantrax> As said, these are just samples for discussion to get an idea
17:47 < pleia2> cprofitt: no comments, good idea
17:47 < nhandler> cprofitt: I think those types of sessions would be great to give, especially before an Open Week or Dev Week
17:47 < Vantrax> cprofitt: good idea
17:48 < cprofitt> I just can not see us growing the offerings unless we ensure people are ready to be instructors
17:48 < cprofitt> so it seems to be central to the success of the project
17:48 < Vantrax> I would defineately agree
17:49 < Vantrax> gah, horrible spelling
17:49 < JoshuaRL> cprofitt: but maybe it could be in the contributor stream.  stickeyed, so to speak, but it makes sense for it to be there.
17:49 < cprofitt> I do not think this needs a vote... we need to flesh that out and work with the stakeholders
17:49 < Vantrax> JoshuaRL: I would think that would be the right spot to put it
17:49 < cprofitt> which I believe brings us to our next topic
17:49 < Vantrax> thats the next bit:P
17:49 < cprofitt> [TOPIC]Identifying Stakeholders
17:49 < MootBot> New Topic: Identifying Stakeholders
17:50 < Vantrax> So now that we have an idea who we are looking at, who are our stakeholders for this project?
17:50 < nhandler> I would definitely try and get james_w involved
17:51 < Vantrax> I would guess were looking at MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, New Users Network
17:51 < JoshuaRL> Rocket2DMn: documentation team should be included, right?
17:51 < Vantrax> I dont think NUN is active..
17:51 < pleia2> NUN is dead
17:51 < nhandler> Vantrax: It isn't last I checked
17:52 < cprofitt> MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation -- those are the right groups?
17:53 < JoshuaRL> sounds good cprofitt
17:53 < Vantrax> also if anyone can supply contact leads for the education programs that would be good:P
17:53 < Vantrax> I have about half of them
17:53 < nhandler> Who do you need Vantrax ?
17:53 < cprofitt> [VOTE]Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
17:53 < MootBot> Please vote on: Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation.
17:53 < MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
17:53 < MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
17:53 < cprofitt> +1
17:53 < Vantrax> i have motu now, but email would be nice
17:53 < MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
17:53 < JoshuaRL> +1
17:53 < MootBot> +1 received from JoshuaRL. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
17:53 < pleia2> +1
17:53 < MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
17:53 < Vantrax> +1
17:53 < MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
17:53 < nhandler> +1
17:53 < MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
17:53 < forestpixie> +1
17:53 < MootBot> +1 received from forestpixie. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
17:53 < tim_sharitt> +1
17:53 < MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
17:54 < cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
17:54 < MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
17:54 < cprofitt> [AGREED]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
17:54 < MootBot> AGREED received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
17:54 < cprofitt> [ACTION]MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt
17:54 < MootBot> ACTION received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt
17:54 < JoshuaRL> Vantrax: matthew east (mdke) mdke@ubuntu.com for Doc team
17:54 < JoshuaRL> or cprofitt  :)
17:55 < nhandler> james_w for MOTU, probably bdmurray for Bug Squad
17:55 < Vantrax> Rocket2DMn: who runs the bugsquad training?
17:56 < nhandler> Vantrax: They don't really have an active training program afaik. But bdmurray is in charge of the team
17:57 < Vantrax> okies, they have alot of material that ive seen
17:57 < pleia2> yeah, they do regular bug days that include training
17:57 < pleia2> but it's not that specific
17:57 < cprofitt> [TOPIC]Developing Online Courseware
17:57 < MootBot> New Topic: Developing Online Courseware
17:57 < nhandler> pleia2: The bug days aren't really training sessions
17:57 < Vantrax> we should make it a little more, even if it is just on the moodle and not in IRC
17:57 < cprofitt> Vantrax tells me that this topic is my ball...
17:57 < pleia2> nhandler: right, but if people ask for help on how to get started they get help
17:57 -!- Snova [n=Snova@unaffiliated/snova] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:57 < pleia2> which is why I say it's not that specific :)
17:58 < Vantrax> need to make it a little easier, and a little more specific:P
17:58 < cprofitt> When it comes to Moodle there are two types of on-line courses that I am familiar with
17:58 < cprofitt> instructor lead and self-paced
17:58 < pleia2> Vantrax: I dunno, I think we need to ask them how things are going and offer help if they want it ;)
17:58 < Vantrax> yep, thats all im planning on with anyone
17:59 < cprofitt> Instructor lead is a course that will make use of wiki material, activities in moodle, forum posts and IRC sessions
17:59 -!- Joeb454 [n=Joeb454@ubuntu/member/joeb454] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
17:59 < cprofitt> self-paced would involve moodle activites and wiki information that people would walk through themselve
18:00 < Vantrax> Over time I would guess those resources would probably all end up in moodle (aside from forum posts and active IRC sessions)
18:00 < cprofitt> on their own
18:00 < cprofitt> Vantrax, I see no reason to duplicate the material that is naturally going to be in the wiki
18:00 < cprofitt> inside of Moodle
18:00 < cprofitt> create activities, etc for it sure...
18:00 < JoshuaRL> cprofitt: self paced would probably be a re-tooling of the instructor led info, right?
18:00 < pleia2> Vantrax: perhaps, but I think we should always be mindful of accessibility, it would be ashame to insist upon everything being in moodle and then lose that resource at some point
18:00 < cprofitt> but the base information should likely stay in the wiki
18:01 < pleia2> that happened to Classroom, Classroom summaries were put on a blog, which disappeared :(
18:01 < Vantrax> I tend to think that training and information are presented very differently
18:01 < cprofitt> Vantrax, yes, but in a great many courses they use text books written by others
18:01 < cprofitt> and the instructor guides people through the material...
18:01 < Vantrax> No argument there:P
18:02 < cprofitt> gives them activities to ensure they learn the knowledge and can apply it
18:02 < Vantrax> More thinking for the self paced courses where it is not instructor led
18:02 < cprofitt> for me the wiki is the text book
18:02 < cprofitt> with self-paced the material can link to the wiki
18:02 < cprofitt> and then give them exercises
18:02 < cprofitt> internal to Moodle
18:02 < cprofitt> I think the idea will have to be massaged as we move forward with it...
18:03 < Vantrax> as with everything:P
18:03 < cprofitt> but as we are not building the entire core of knowledge from the ground up we have to respect the normal location of this knowledge
18:03 < Vantrax> cprofitt: +1
18:03 < cprofitt> curious on pleia2 and nhandler and Rocket2DMn - thoughts
18:04 < cprofitt> JoshuaRL, ?
18:04 < pleia2> I'm good
18:04 < nhandler> cprofitt: Who is going to be in charge of keeping the online stuff up-to-date?
18:04 < forestpixie> that sounds right to me cprofitt
18:05 < JoshuaRL> i like the idea of using existing info for the instructor led courses
18:05 < cprofitt> nhandler, I would assume that the wiki would fall to any of the people who would normally do that...
18:05 < tim_sharitt> sounds good cprofitt :)
18:05 < Vantrax> nhandler: the stuff in moodle or wiki or?
18:05 < JoshuaRL> the less duplication, the better.
18:05 < cprofitt> and that instructors teaching that course would bear soem of that burden too
18:05 < cprofitt> the Moodle course would be maintained just by the instructors
18:05 < cprofitt> does that sound good nhandler ?
18:06 < nhandler> It sounds good, we'll see if it works
18:06 < cprofitt> k
18:06 < cprofitt> [TOPIC]Project Milestones
18:06 < MootBot> New Topic: Project Milestones
18:06 < cprofitt> back to you Vantrax
18:06 < Vantrax> This is pretty simple and quick
18:07 < Vantrax> Just a little breakdown of how things should go forward from here (pick it apart)
18:07 < Vantrax> The information discussed here will form a project plan with the scope and aim
18:08 < Vantrax> that will be posted to planet, and mailed to everyone
18:08 < Vantrax> Then we get the initial deployment of moodle started and get the theme done
18:08 < Vantrax> We need to create content guidelines (presentation standards and layout)
18:08 < Vantrax> then moderator groups based on contributing areas
18:09 < Vantrax> we need to get sample courses delivered in moodle using the standards, preferably getting the entire new user stream ready as a priority
18:09 < Vantrax> Announcement to community and a call for more topics that people want covered
18:10 < cprofitt> yes, and that sample can be a course on how to use Moodle as an instructor
18:10 < Vantrax> more course development based on feedback with at least one streem complete
18:10 < JoshuaRL> cprofitt: nice idea
18:10 < Vantrax> the of course an official launch
18:10 < Vantrax> ^then
18:10 < JoshuaRL> Vantrax: yeah, the new user stream should definitely be a high priority
18:11 < cprofitt> Moodle also allows for you to use an existing course as a template... so we should plan on using that feature as well
18:11 < nhandler> cprofitt: Does Moodle support OpenID?
18:11 < Vantrax> nhandler: it does
18:11 < cprofitt> nhandler, I believe we are working on that...
18:11 < cprofitt> not sure if we have the config done on it though
18:11 < cprofitt> bodhi is the man with the plan there
18:11 < Vantrax> nope, bodhi will be working on it
18:12 < nhandler> We could maybe use that along with the Launchpad API to grant certain privileges on Moodle to members of certain teams
18:12 < cprofitt> Yes..
18:12 < Vantrax> nhandler: that would be a good idea
18:12 < cprofitt> we will have to have admins, instructors and students
18:12 < cprofitt> the instructor lead classes will need periods in which the course can be registered for
18:13 < cprofitt> self-paced can be 100% open
18:13 < Vantrax> also probably a moderators for a stream
18:13 < cprofitt> last topic Vantrax ?
18:13 < cprofitt> [TOPIC]Session feedback mechanism
18:13 < MootBot> New Topic: Session feedback mechanism
18:14 < Vantrax> forestpixie asked about this
18:14 -!- ian_brasil [n=ian@201-75-27-206-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
18:14 < forestpixie> Bodhi wanted us to look into having some sort of feedback mechanism that users can access after sessions have run - the idea at the moment being a simple poll thread on the forum. He's talking to admin (at some point) about where we should do so - but does anyone have an problem with doing it that way or any other ideas.
18:14 < Vantrax> that would be my idea
18:14 < nhandler> If we are creating an LP team, we could also put the poll on LP
18:14 < cprofitt> I agree we will want some form of feedback...
18:14 < Vantrax> have a are of the forum related to questions and feedback on a specific session
18:14 < Vantrax> have an area
18:14 < forestpixie> nhandler: we were looking at new threads/pols for each session that runs
18:14 < nhandler> Or we could also put feedback on the wiki below the IRC logs
18:15 < cprofitt> I think we need to be cautious what we ask though... and how the information is processed
18:15 < JoshuaRL> cprofitt: theres whole degrees in that sentence
18:15 < forestpixie> +1 - just  a simple 1-5 poll and then if people wish to post in thread they can
18:15 < cprofitt> JoshuaRL, yes there are
18:15 < Vantrax> in principle I agree with the idea forestpixie but it will need to be dug into a bit
18:16 < pleia2> nhandler: I like that, or failing that we use one of these other ideas and then link to the logs page so it's all accessible from one spot at least
18:16 < cprofitt> forestpixie, I think we can work on the content (questions) at a later time...
18:16 < pleia2> some people have trouble with editing wikis
18:16 < forestpixie> pleia2: +1
18:16 < nhandler> Because in my opinion, the comments are much more valuable than the actual rating
18:16 < JoshuaRL> cprofitt: i have a friend thats a marketing major, i could ask him for suggestions
18:16 < cprofitt> We could even use forums for it if we wanted a more simple place for editing
18:16 < forestpixie> sounds good JoshuaRL
18:16 < cprofitt> that would expose the courses in another place as well
18:17 < forestpixie> that is bodhi's thought cprofitt
18:17 < cprofitt> JoshuaRL, it is less marketing...
18:17 < cprofitt> and more getting useful constructive information
18:17 < JoshuaRL> cprofitt: but it IS marketing, from the feedback idea.  thats a big part of marketing.
18:17 < cprofitt> no axe grinding, etc
18:17 < cprofitt> any other ideas that anyone else has?
18:18 -!- yvan300 [n=yvan300@190.213.78.29] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
18:18  * cprofitt motions to close the meeting
18:18 < forestpixie> above all it needs to be simple or people won't bother
18:18 < Vantrax> So the project info we discussed here will be written up then mailed out and I will post it to planet
18:18 < tim_sharitt> +1 cprofitt
18:18 < nhandler> Vantrax: Are the logs/minutes going to be on the wiki as well?
18:18 < forestpixie> I'll put the log on the FG wiki in a minute
18:18 < cprofitt> #endmeeting
18:18 < MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:18.

Thanks to Pleia2 for having logs when Mootbot did not!!!

Mootbot Notes

MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Education Initiative
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Name of Project
<MootBot> New Topic:  Overview
<MootBot> New Topic:  Name of Project
<MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Training
<MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Education
<MootBot> IDEA received: Ubuntu Community Learning (JoshuaRL)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Name - Ubuntu Community Education.
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<MootBot> Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Learning.
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: -1
<MootBot> Please vote on: Ubuntu Community Training.
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -4
<MootBot> AGREED received: Ubuntu Community Education
<MootBot> New Topic: Use of the Ubuntu name
<MootBot> New Topic: Training/Education focus
<MootBot> New Topic: Integrating with the community
<MootBot> Please vote on: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists.
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<MootBot> AGREED received: One LP team plus a mailing list w/ cross posting on all member groups email lists
<MootBot> New Topic: Training/Education focus
<MootBot> New Topic: Identifying Stakeholders
<MootBot> Please vote on: Initial Stakeholders = MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation.
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
<MootBot> AGREED received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation
<MootBot> ACTION received: MOTU Team, Bug Squad, Beginners Team, Classroom Team, Canonical, Desktop Training, Documentation will be contacted by Vantrax or cprofitt
<MootBot> New Topic: Developing Online Courseware
<MootBot> New Topic: Project Milestones
<MootBot> New Topic: Session feedback mechanism
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:18.