Edubuntu/Meetings/Logs/2005-12-07

Meeting

=== 01:01 kjcole === === 01:02 janeW 01:02 jelkner 01:02 janeW 01:02 jelkner 01:02 kjcole 01:03 jelkner 01:03 jelkner 01:04 kjcole 01:04 ogra 01:04 janeW 01:04 ogra 01:04 janeW 01:04 jelkner 01:05 janeW 01:05 jelkner 01:05 jelkner 01:05 kjcole 01:05 janeW 01:05 ogra 01:05 janeW === 01:06 ogra 01:06 flint 01:07 ogra === 01:07 ogra 01:08 janeW 01:08 janeW 01:08 ogra 01:08 janeW 01:08 janeW === 01:08 ogra 01:08 janeW 01:09 ogra 01:09 janeW 01:09 ogra 01:09 janeW 01:09 ogra 01:09 janeW 01:10 ogra 01:10 ogra === 01:10 ogra === 01:11 ogra 01:11 ogra 01:12 janeW 01:12 jelkner 01:12 ogra 01:12 jelkner 01:12 ogra 01:12 janeW 01:12 janeW 01:12 kjcole 01:12 flint 01:12 ogra 01:13 janeW 01:13 jelkner 01:13 ogra 01:13 flint 01:13 jelkner 01:13 ogra 01:13 jelkner 01:13 janeW 01:14 jelkner 01:14 jelkner 01:14 janeW 01:14 ogra 01:14 jelkner 01:14 ogra 01:15 jelkner === 01:15 ogra 01:15 janeW === 01:15 jelkner 01:16 flint 01:16 janeW 01:16 jelkner 01:16 janeW 01:16 janeW 01:16 ogra 01:16 janeW 01:17 flint 01:17 ogra 01:17 janeW 01:17 ogra 01:18 ogra 01:18 janeW 01:19 ogra 01:19 flint 01:19 janeW 01:19 jelkner 01:19 janeW 01:20 ogra 01:20 jelkner 01:20 ogra 01:20 jelkner 01:20 flint 01:20 jelkner 01:21 jelkner 01:21 janeW 01:21 jelkner === 01:21 janeW 01:21 jelkner 01:22 juliux_ 01:22 kjcole 01:22 jelkner 01:22 jelkner 01:22 jelkner 01:22 zakame 01:22 janeW 01:22 ogra 01:23 jelkner === === 01:23 jelkner 01:23 janeW 01:23 jelkner 01:23 ogra 01:23 janeW 01:23 jelkner 01:23 ogra 01:23 mhz 01:23 kjcole 01:24 jelkner 01:24 ogra 01:24 ogra 01:24 janeW 01:24 jelkner 01:24 jelkner 01:24 ogra 01:24 jelkner 01:24 jelkner 01:24 janeW 01:25 jelkner === 01:25 janeW === 01:25 kjcole 01:25 janeW 01:25 janeW 01:25 kjcole 01:25 janeW 01:26 kjcole 01:26 janeW 01:26 flint 01:26 ogra 01:26 janeW 01:26 jelkner 01:26 kjcole 01:26 jelkner 01:26 janeW 01:26 ogra 01:26 mhz 01:27 jelkner 01:27 jelkner 01:27 ogra 01:27 janeW 01:27 jelkner 01:27 janeW 01:28 jelkner 01:28 janeW 01:28 jelkner 01:28 ogra 01:28 janeW 01:28 jelkner 01:28 flint 01:28 ogra 01:28 janeW 01:28 ogra 01:29 janeW 01:29 ogra 01:29 ogra 01:29 janeW 01:29 janeW 01:29 kjcole 01:29 janeW 01:30 ogra 01:30 ogra === === 01:30 ogra 01:30 janeW 01:30 flint 01:31 kjcole 01:31 ogra 01:31 janeW 01:31 flint 01:32 janeW 01:32 kjcole 01:32 mhz 01:32 janeW 01:33 ogra 01:33 kjcole 01:33 flint === 01:34 janeW 01:34 kjcole 01:34 ogra 01:34 flint 01:35 ogra 01:35 ogra 01:35 mhz 01:35 mhz 01:35 janeW 01:36 ogra 01:36 flint 01:36 janeW 01:37 janeW 01:37 kjcole 01:37 ogra 01:37 ogra 01:37 janeW 01:37 janeW 01:37 flint 01:37 ogra 01:38 janeW 01:38 flint 01:38 janeW 01:38 janeW 01:39 flint === 01:39 kjcole 01:39 ogra 01:40 janeW 01:40 flint 01:40 flint 01:40 ogra 01:40 janeW 01:40 ogra 01:40 Kamion 01:41 Kamion 01:41 ogra 01:41 janeW 01:41 kjcole 01:41 Kamion 01:41 ogra 01:41 flint 01:41 janeW 01:41 ogra 01:41 kjcole 01:41 janeW 01:41 janeW 01:42 ogra 01:42 flint 01:42 kjcole 01:42 janeW 01:42 ogra 01:42 janeW 01:42 janeW 01:42 ogra 01:42 janeW 01:43 janeW === 01:43 kjcole 01:43 janeW 01:43 flint 01:43 janeW 01:44 ogra 01:44 ogra 01:44 flint 01:44 ogra 01:45 flint 01:45 kjcole 01:45 ogra 01:46 kjcole 01:46 ogra 01:46 ogra === 01:46 flint 01:47 janeW === 01:47 march 01:47 janeW 01:47 kjcole 01:47 ogra 01:48 kjcole 01:48 janeW 01:49 flint 01:49 kjcole 01:50 janeW === http://wiki 01:50 flint 01:50 mhz 01:50 mhz 01:50 flint 01:51 dholbach 01:51 flint === tomorrow am 01:52 flint === 01:52 dholbach 01:52 Kamion 01:52 ogra 01:52 janeW 01:52 janeW 01:52 Kamion 01:52 janeW 01:53 ogra 01:53 janeW 01:53 Kamion 01:53 janeW 01:53 janeW 01:53 ogra 01:53 Kamion 01:53 Kamion 01:53 Kamion 01:54 janeW 01:54 Kamion 01:54 ogra 01:54 Kamion 01:54 janeW 01:54 Kamion 01:54 ogra 01:54 janeW 01:54 flint 01:54 Kamion 01:55 dholbach 01:55 kjcole 01:55 ogra 01:55 janeW 01:56 ogra 01:56 ogra 01:56 ogra 01:56 ogra 01:57 Kamion 01:57 flint 01:57 Kamion === 01:57 ogra 01:57 flint 01:58 ogra 01:58 Kamion 01:58 Kamion 01:58 ogra 01:58 flint 01:59 Kamion 01:59 ogra 01:59 ogra 01:59 ogra 02:00 kjcole 02:00 ogra === 02:01 ogra === 02:02 janeW 02:02 ogra 02:02 janeW eetingLogs.content" lang="en"> es.2FMeetingLogs.line-1">

This is a log or summary of an Edubuntu Meeting. Please go to the Meeting Page for more information about our meetings.

December 7, 2005 class="anchor" id="line-7">

01:01 janeW       roll call jelkner [n=jelkner@158.59.194.112] has joined #ubuntu-meeting kjcole is sleepy... er.. is Kevin Cole ogra is OliverGrawert kjcole is definitely sleepy.... er... Kevin Cole just the 3 of us? jelkner is Jeffrey Elkner hi jelkner hi jane! morning, jeff. good morning kevin while we wait for other folks, can we do a quick update on documentation? I'm game. we should probably wait for highvoltage and jsgotango for that let's start with ogra's update now, so we don't run out of time... since they are involved with docs they can catch up from the notes... ogra: only problem is, i will need to leave by 7:30 pm jelkner: ok you are straight after ogra. ok? last week i missed a bunch of import stuff (including local devices) ok FYI: SInce this falls before my morning commute, and Accessibility Team falls after it, I'm going to blow out of here in 55 minutes... kjcole: ok understood ok, let's go them, waiting for late ppl just encourages them to be late flint [n=flint@69-164-120-179.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting the CD build looks very good, we should have all 3 arches ready today, i386 hd three uninstallable packages tonight rthat should be gone by now, for the other arches the install CD should be fine already morning ollie liveCD builds will start immediately after i have someone building the filesystem for me ...(i.e. directly after the ubuntu livefs was built) spacey [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting (thats done by lamont/infinity) great ogra: much better than we were last time :) i had a workshop and talk last weekend at the essener linuxtage, which resulted in several people who want to join development now :) EXCELLENT ogra: do you think they will? linbetwin [n=ricaradu@85.186.214.190] has joined #ubuntu-meeting i.e. i have one guy who wants to take over ltsp-manager from me ;) :) the other ones are not this concrete ... ogra: I see you got the thinclient-memory-usage spec to Approved. spacey, worked with willow the last days ... and faster-startup to Pending Reivew thats next on my list ;) so getting there the specs are reviewed, and i have a list of changes from mdz to put into the two missing ones .... after i made these changes they should get approved straight jelkner is waiting with anticipation to hear about local devices... the local device spec is still in drafting and will wait for a meeting between mdz, sbalneaves and me crimsun [i=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-meeting to decide what we do and what is feasable with it its the one that requires most manpower (not only mine) and the one that had lowest prio from the beginning ogra: are you setting up that meeting or must I? why lowest prio? janeW, i can ... i would argue that without it, we really don't have edubuntu jelkner, i dont make the prioritisation ogra: please do if you can I am drowning in LP, plans and spreadsheets who sets the priorities and how?  I would think it might be us... local devices seem very "dapper".  is is  a  personpower issue or an approach isssue? jelkner, you said we dont have edubuntu without content filtering kjcole: us and mdz mainly ogra: yes, but that was until you gave me a different solution for that jelkner, which is rather achieveable now ... ogra, actually that was my flawed vision about the content filtering... great! since spacey took the task i'm only reporting back feedback from the users local devices are important everyone keeps asking "how can students save their work?" i don't know what to tell them yet ogra: any more progress for the week? sure, but still, the spec is low/mid prio and not ready yet janeW: how do priorities get set? we have some odd Xorg bugs currently so ltsp is broken, i had not enough tim yet due to my normal distro work ... i hope to have that fixed until next meeting is there a way to appeal a priority? spacey pong jelkner, thats a mdz/sabdfl thing jelkner: mail me and I'll process it zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-meeting will do ogra, ollie, what can we do to help get local devices?  Are priorities disclosed on a wikki somewhere? jelkner: I can raise the priority, but that won;t necessarily change the expectation of delivery, esp if there is a technical blocker understood flint: it;s all on launchpad jelkner: but I will support getting this done, because it is clearly needed http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051205-1.png shows the latest bootchart, mdz has the opinion we can cut down some (10?) seconds from X detection and Keybuk told me the over all speed might be cut down by 15sec so we're getting there https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable JaneW, actually it is all on my computer, thanks for the specifics ollie! flint, learn dbus programming :P flint: there's no dreaded wiki table this time thats one of the blockers, i'm not into dbus enough that i'd trust my skills to do it alone ... but since most of the other specs are done alread i'll have lots of time to concentrate on the device suff ... flint: ogra and I are somewhat constrained by mdz's call wrt priority etc but i dont give promises for specs that arent even running as a proof of concept locally for me, please understand that yeah verily, we require a Jedi, and they are in short supply... bring em on i have to leave in 10 minutes, any chance we can sneek in a quick documentation report? yes jelkner go ahead goby is still waiting for a review from pitti, so we most likely wont see it on the flight2 CD kjcole and i have been meeting each weekend to work on the cookbook ok, i'm done here is where we are: jelkner, you are SUCH a whiner...go ahead :^) 1. we've taken the original source and convereted it to plain text 2. we have edited the first 2 chapters, removing tuxlab specific stuff jelkner/ kjcole - sounds good :) 3. we are planning to use lore to mark it up so we can have quick, web ready copy juliux_ [n=julius@irz727.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting jelkner: is it quite a chore? 4. we will finish removing tuxlab specific stuff the next few weeks hi all 1.5 We've broken it into several separate files, basically along chapter lines. 5. then we will begin adding edubuntu specific information so it is a build down and then build up process one thing to keep in mind that effects artwork jedi! jelkner: sounds very logical and sequential jelkner, i aksed kjcole yesterday already, i'd like to have regular reviews of the tech stuff in there, the tuxlabs technical side is quite different from our implementation ... if we want the book out by dapper release mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting mhz is here it would be very helpful if we could have the artwork at least a few weeks early hi mhz: congrats re CC membership so we can include screen shots with the correct artwork jelkner, we have an artwork deadline in the release schedule jelkner: you need new artwork? thats all i have thats some weeks before the doc deadline afaikl thanx janeW ogra, the tuxLab cookbook made me curious about "wizzy" (which I assume is one of those differences) no, i mean whatever artwork dapper will have jelkner, yes thats what i talked about jelkner: ok fair enough, screenshots would make sense, do you need to change or add to the illustrations too? great add to there are two weeks between artwork and doc deadline for exactly this purpose mostly screenshots excellent wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule <- for dates ok, i'm finished bmonty [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting jelkner: excellnt, I am very please to hear there's been progress with this :)) Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting I've contacted both the original (?) author and illustrator, and buttered them up, but haven't asked for anything. thanks 2 you both for taking you w/e for this . kjcole: have they responded and been friendly? I get the impression they'd be willing, provided there's time. kjcole: awesome janeW: Both replied very positively. :) jelkner, I recall that the original tuxlab docs had a lot in them about physical infastructure, how are you handling this in transition to dapper ubuntu flint, we should keep it ... agreed we will keep it Also, as I said in e-mail a bit premature, but just something to keep in the back of heads: When/If hardcopy publishing, perhaps Lulu Press... but edubuntu will be more specific we should also have hardware specs in there, we get asked about that alot the physical stuff will be the ame everywhere janeW: I am running to a meeting (2 actually) I am sorry I am not here today. However, I have just sent an email to the ML where I report on everything I have been upto. to the distro tuxlab is a project, not a distro janeW, they should be on the website mhz: great, thanks so it was more general yes, understood ok, folks, i need to run... ok any more of the documentation? same time next week yup thanks jelkner , have a good day bye later jeff...thanks. bye ogra: I presume other docs like about edubuntu etc will come later in the cycle, it;s still a bit early for that now yup howevere I see ubuntu has a release note page up, to gather stuff as it happens, should we do the same? mdz has put up a dapper release notes page, we should probably do that too now heh ok, I'll do that ok artwork? We're meeting once a week, and lore's pretty simple as markup.  One thing is it doesn't (yet) produce an index, though I understand that's in progress too.  That's it from me and documentation. is there any one here to talk about that? mhz is gone .... any news from the canonical side ? janeW hasn't heard of lore, but if it works for you and saves in a usable format I am happy mhz still here ogra :) for the professional stuff ? ogra: no nothing yet. silbs is still not back in the office, so I don;t expect anything till she is back and settled lore is best found with the search term python-lore... lore is the Twisted Python's built-in documentation stuff for their docs, converts to HTML, LaTeX, and a couple of others I think. i'd still like to know if we get pro artwork for all three age stages we'll have has anyone responded to the recent mailing list messages offering help? the neat thing about lore is that it is default installed in the badger by default :^) I know mhz is doing great things in the spanish speaking commmunities, but we need to harness the english speaking offers of help too toxictoadz has been approved as a member of the Edubuntu Cookbook Cooks, but I haven't written back yet. janeW: harness, how do you see it? ogra: re art, I'll try to get an answer on that soon... by the way do you agree that the 3 designs should be 1) Junior, 2) senior 3) Plain ? yes (and mhz... well, he's already here, isn't he. ;-)  He's also a cook.) janeW, is there leather involved :^) mhz is not giving opinions today or he'll get motivated to stick around :D glad there are so many cooks... dont spoil the book :P janeW, (I think the e-mail you were referring to was from toxictoadz) and beware the salt :) janeW, I mean about the harnessing...can you point to a page about the levels Jane? flint, its on the meeting records the part from ubz flint: thx for harnessing question.. I hadn't got that either oops flint: levels? hmm, it actually isnt ... janeW, I mean designs I was talking about toxictoad and Babak Manssouri  and any others that come along flint: sorry I am not understanding you today toxictoadz looks to be more of a translation and artwork person flint, the artwork package will be configurable to select between 3 age levels ... there is no further magic involved :) by harness I meant if someone offers help, grab them and suck them dry.... (joking) but make the most of it... janeW, the 3 designs should be 1) Junior, 2) senior 3) Plain these are the levels... flint, since we'll get a professional designer i cant say much more flint: Ahhh I understand the levels now... janeW, is levels an appropriate term? flint: it's not much more that that for now, so we are starting with a clean slate... what we have now (apart from wallpaper) is liked for junior flint: looks? janeW, it's ok nobody understands me (SIGH!:^) ulinskie [n=yolynne@202.57.88.34] has joined #ubuntu-meeting janeW, I must have missed Babak Manssouri.  I haven't paid as much attention to the artwork e-mails.  Do you recall if he (I'm assuming "he") was artwork or text or unspecified? the mid ager will require a icon set decision ... has anything happned with the a11y stuff? ogra, ollie will this require a choice screen in the installer? janeW, what ally? janeW, they are working on a liveCD for massachusets afaik ogra: ok flint, yes flint: I certainly hope not ogra: please discuss that with me, that's very suboptimal it needs to flint a11y = accessability (apparently) flint, ally = accessibility (later) yup janeW, Ally = my wife. ogra: are we doing edubuntu express at all? flint, thats an 11 not ll flint, is she accessible?  ;-) flint: so is she accessible? *duck* janeW, it will be on the liveCD, so yes .... you all are bad people... janeW, great minds... kjcole: *high five* janeW, but that will install only the workstation version ogra: oic, ok makes sense btw did you all see you slachdot mention? janeW, i dont plan a specific edubuntu version ogra: and someone NEEDS to mention LTSP there s/c/s ogra doesnt write on /. Nice! And that guy Greg Philips? who did the nice review in his blog... yes :) ogra, ollie what the heck is up in Massachusetts? ok we are chatting again - which is fine as long as someone isn't waiting to talk about something important... flint, they are in the decision process to switch theor municipalities ... to linux janew, I think the slashdot piece repudiated your graphic choices... or some other stuff ... ogra, I am in the next state over.  let me know who/how I can get involved please. Since we're just chatting, any thoughts/post-Dapper+x fantasies regarding publication or is that a Doc Team question? flint, no idea .... i only know that they wahted to look at ubuntu but require full a11y support Also, not sure of the appropriate meeting: I've been in touch with a friend who so the a11y team tries to provide a liveCD to test ... flint, you might want to contact TheMuso or dholbach about it pburkholder [n=pb@vpn22.ucar.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting kjcole, publish or perish eh?  I see the connection know between ally and dapper.  Thanks ollie for the contact names. flint: I didn't get that... but I was hearing pl saying it's nothing but a different desktop, completey missing the LTSP component march [n=marc@dslb-084-062-013-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting hi@all kjcole: for the cookbook you mean? is blind and was a professional Braille proofreader for the Library of Congress.  He's peripherally helping with both a11y and helping me make connections with LoC to get a cookbook officially part of their collection... janeW, i saw people mentioning the LTSP janeW: The cookbook in particular, but other stuff as well possibly. kjcole: if we make it rock we can may be convince the sabd to publish it janeW, the Slashdot review really played up the angle of a distro for geek children.  This is hitting the nail on the head (or in this case geekletts ont he head :^) janeW: Ah.  Well, then that *potentially* simplifies things. flint: agreed mhz has wikied the mail sent for better use .edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/WeeklyUpdates/2005Dec7 kjcole, jez kevin, if you write a good book, somone will publish the silly thing.  Keep your shirt on and write! ok, sorry you all, gotta run! bye mdz, thanks! flint: i guess that dcc didn't work through my router/firewall-thingie janeW, ok enough stroking jane, what's next on your dreaded agenda? janeW must get these notes up, and get back to dapper status updates, in prep for ***4AM*** meeting dholbach, what dcc thing my man? hunger [n=hunger@p54A61F4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting flint: you made a dcc chat request? janeW: 2am surely ... flint, artwork is always last :) the ones that moaned about not enough time are not even here this week, and so we have extra time. Kamion: 4am for me (UTC +2) oh, didn't realise .za was so far ahead Kamion: yup just for the record, we have a popular contributor to edubuntu, linus sent a little app :) Kamion: you wanna add anything esle to edubuntu? nope ogra: oh yes! ogra: he hasn't responded to me yet... its a cool thingie but has an awful gui :) only comment really is that adding installer questions is non-trivially awkward, and with the live installer you have to design two UIs I'd really very strongly recommend making it easily switchable after install instead (you have to do that anyway) Kamion: ITA the ltsp hack for edubuntu breezy nearly managed to break ubuntu netboot Kamion, yes, we can decide on a defaulut ... and only didn't by dumb luck ogra: do you agree, we should have a default and then make it switchable after install? janeW: ITA? janeW, see above :) I Tend to Agree dholbach, sorry I am a nubie re dcc... ah, ok flint: don't worry :) ogra, thingie? More specific? Kamion, and i'm not sure if we want to keep the ltsp hack.... it doesnt make sense for multiarch ltsp flint: and with me you are either stroked or whipped - take your pick :P kjcole, it logs out a given user afer a certain amount of time ... and shows a timer .... (the time is written in tcl and looks awful, the tool iself is very cool) *timer ogra: I can see more justification for ltsp-client-builder Kamion, you are not refering to the "lotr" patch when you talk of an ltsp hack are you? flint: no zakame_ [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Kamion, i'd rather have http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ for post install action Kamion, gotcha. so you can select the target arch for the clients it's just technically difficult at the moment to have different installer flow for different flavours (ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu), for pretty much the same reason as we can't have different base systems for different flavours; a lot of it's done by priority in the archive and we don't have per-flavour priorities flint: referring to the thing in the Edubuntu installer that builds an LTSP client chroot during install Kamion, but thats neither speced nor do i put time into it currently, its only a base for community contributions Kamion, i am on the page thanks ogra: integrating that into the live installer would be sane I think, but probably dapper+1 yes thats what its planned for (dapper+1) Tick-tock... Time for me to run to work so I can make the A11y Team meeting.  (Someday, maybe I'll do work for my office again too...) i did only the glade stuff and the worst backend part (dhcp...) te rest is for community contribution and has a non predictable deadline pirast [n=pirast@p508B2B82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting janeW, meeting done ? pirast [n=pirast@p508B2B82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] yup thanks guys thanks janeW :) everyone OUT ;P